Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[Andrea Venturoli]

On 07/19/15 03:25, James E Lang wrote:

The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: What 
operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at home and at work? 
What factors influence the choice?


I use LO 4.3 on a FreeBSD 10.1/amd64 laptop.
On the desktop I'm running FreeBSD 9.3/i386 and I'm still using 
OpenOffice; I think I'll switch when a more recent version hits the port 
tree.

These are my "work"-station, but I work at home :)

I too think it's a good idea to setup an official survey.

 bye
av.

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Libre Office Base

[Alex Thurgood]

Le 17/07/2015 15:50, Ian Whitfield a écrit :

Hi Ian,

> This does not work - You can enlarge the box but this only creates a
> larger gray area round two sides of the Check Box which keeps it's
> original size!!??

Yes, this is a longstanding known limitation of the tickbox control
object. It can not be resized, the object frame around it can, but not
the object itself.


Alex



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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[Malgosia Askanas]

I work at home, where I have a 15-year old Mac G4 running OS 10.4, and a 
new System76 Gazelle Pro running Ubuntu 15.04.  I love the Mac and it 
continues to work just fine (knock on wood), but it became increasingly 
frustrating or impossible to access the Web 2.0-style mobile-targeted 
websites with OS 10.4 browsers. I bought the System76 experimentally to 
see if it was possible to get away from the proprietary-systems racket. 
 I am not yet sure what the answer is.  I am a (Unix) software 
developer by profession, but I don't really want to have to learn how to 
"develop" my own laptop environment; I want it to already provide me 
with the tools I need to do other work.  My Mac definitely does that; I 
am not (yet?) convinced that Ubuntu can.


-malgosia

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Empty Rulers in Draw

[Brian Barker]

At 20:36 19/07/2015 -0700, Al Nuwer wrote:
On 7/19/2015 8:18 PM, Brian Barker [via Document Foundation Mail 
Archive] wrote:

At 19:49 19/07/2015 -0700, Al Nuwer wrote:
I started a new file in Draw where the rulers looked OK - had inch 
increments displayed. I later opened it to continue work on it, 
but the rulers are empty - no increments displayed, just blank rulers.


I think this happens naturally if the unit of measurement is 
sufficiently large, so that all the incremental marks will be so 
far apart that they are off the display.



How do I get the measurements to display?


Go to Tools | Options... | LibreOffice Draw | General | Settings |
Unit of measurement - and choose something other than kilometre or mile.


Thanks Brian, but that's not the problem. I have the Unit of Measure 
set to inches - just like it was yesterday when I initiated the file 
and the incremental marks displayed.  Any other thoughts?


The other explanations I can think of are:

o Your drawing page size is correspondingly smaller - so as to 
produce the same effect.


o You have Drawing scale (in the same Options dialogue) set 
sufficiently high - perhaps 10:1 or whatever. If you change this, I 
think you may need to save and reopen your document to see the 
effect; this corresponds to your original problem description.


Brian Barker 



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Empty Rulers in Draw

[alnuwer]

Thanks Brian, but that's not the problem. I have the Unit of Measure set 
to inches - just like it was yesterday when I initiated the file and the 
incremental marks displayed.  Any other thoughts?

Al


On 7/19/2015 8:18 PM, Brian Barker [via Document Foundation Mail 
Archive] wrote:
> At 19:49 19/07/2015 -0700, Al Nuwer wrote:
> >I started a new file in Draw where the rulers looked OK - had inch
> >increments displayed. I later opened it to continue work on it, but
> >the rulers are empty - no increments displayed, just blank rulers.
>
> I think this happens naturally if the unit of measurement is
> sufficiently large, so that all the incremental marks will be so far
> apart that they are off the display.
>
> >How do I get the measurements to display?
>
> Go to Tools | Options... | LibreOffice Draw | General | Settings |
> Unit of measurement - and choose something other than kilometre or mile.
>
> I trust this helps.
>
> Brian Barker
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[Jay Lozier]

Hi,

At work I use Windows 7 for corporate policy reasons.

At home, three computers currently. One has only Linux installed (my 
desktop), one laptop is dual boot between W7 and Linux, and the last has 
W8.1 and will be set up as a dual boot.


Only my desktop is used for anything more stressful the surfing and 
email, mostly some programming and photo editing.



On 07/19/2015 11:02 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:

While we're waiting for a formal survey to be developed:

My primary machine is a Sony Vaio laptop with Windows 7, used for both 
home and work.  While I have a UNIX background and would be willing to 
experiment with LINUX, there is software I need for work that comes in 
Windows or Windows.  (Windows is, however, the only thing for which 
Microsoft gets a dime of my money.)


I have four older computers, as well: two laptops and two desktops. 
The desktop that is in anything resembling use runs Windows 2000, the 
newer laptop has Windows XP, and the other two have Windows NT. None 
of these is connected to the Internet and I keep them around (a) out 
of habit, (b) because the upgrades to some of my favorite games are 
actually retrogrades, and (c)
I some have old software that I like but can't justify paying to 
upgrade -- it's just for my own use, so compatibility isn't an issue.


I'll never buy Apple equipment simply because I'm allergic to 
proprietary hardware!  Software is bad enough.


Just so you know where I'm coming from: I had about 35 years in IT 
before getting laid off from my position as Quality Manager for a 
software company (and my understanding is that they've ever since 
regretted dismantling the Quality Department).  I now have my own 
accounting practice, so I'm much more a user than a techie though I 
can still do logical design with the best of them (I also spent time 
as a data modeler, as well as the usual programming gigs). As a user, 
I'm less likely to be willing to put the time into learning the 
technicalities of newer tech stuff.


Dave Liesse



On 7/18/2015 18:25, James E Lang wrote:
The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: 
What operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at 
home and at work? What factors influence the choice?


To set the tone, here are my answers:

• I am retired so "at work" is not applicable
• At home we have a desktop dual boot Windows XP (and Ubuntu Linux) 
computer, a laptop dual boot Kubuntu Linux (and pre-installed Windows 
Vista) computer and several other laptop, desktop, and dedicated 
server (Ubuntu Linux based) computers. I also have Android Lollipop, 
Android Kit Kat, and Android Jelly Bean tablets and phones. I have 
nothing from Apple.
• Windows XP is used primarily for single player gaming and e-Sword 
Bible software though it also is used to run LO, FireFox and Pegasus 
Mail (proprietary though free of cost).
• Kubuntu Linux is my general purpose "go to" environment. My first 
Linux system used what I believe was the penultimate marketed version 
from SuSE before the first release of Open SuSE. I liked the 
flexibility that was inherent in the KDE desktop environment and 
found the UI to be quite similar to that of Windows at the time. I 
have briefly tried Gnome and Unity desktop environments but KDE is my 
personal first choice.
• If I had a tablet computer that I thought could support my Linux 
usage it, too, would run Kubuntu Linux, LO, etc.
• Apple equipment is too expensive for me and from what I've heard 
about the company's software policies, they are too restrictive to 
suit me.
• Dual boot capabilities are seldom used to deviate from the above 
information.

• The BSODs on Windows influenced my initial adoption of Linux.







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Re: [libreoffice-users] Empty Rulers in Draw

[Brian Barker]

At 19:49 19/07/2015 -0700, Al Nuwer wrote:
I started a new file in Draw where the rulers looked OK - had inch 
increments displayed. I later opened it to continue work on it, but 
the rulers are empty - no increments displayed, just blank rulers.


I think this happens naturally if the unit of measurement is 
sufficiently large, so that all the incremental marks will be so far 
apart that they are off the display.



How do I get the measurements to display?


Go to Tools | Options... | LibreOffice Draw | General | Settings | 
Unit of measurement - and choose something other than kilometre or mile.


I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[Dave Liesse]

While we're waiting for a formal survey to be developed:

My primary machine is a Sony Vaio laptop with Windows 7, used for both 
home and work.  While I have a UNIX background and would be willing to 
experiment with LINUX, there is software I need for work that comes in 
Windows or Windows.  (Windows is, however, the only thing for which 
Microsoft gets a dime of my money.)


I have four older computers, as well: two laptops and two desktops. The 
desktop that is in anything resembling use runs Windows 2000, the newer 
laptop has Windows XP, and the other two have Windows NT. None of these 
is connected to the Internet and I keep them around (a) out of habit, 
(b) because the upgrades to some of my favorite games are actually 
retrogrades, and (c)
I some have old software that I like but can't justify paying to upgrade 
-- it's just for my own use, so compatibility isn't an issue.


I'll never buy Apple equipment simply because I'm allergic to 
proprietary hardware!  Software is bad enough.


Just so you know where I'm coming from: I had about 35 years in IT 
before getting laid off from my position as Quality Manager for a 
software company (and my understanding is that they've ever since 
regretted dismantling the Quality Department).  I now have my own 
accounting practice, so I'm much more a user than a techie though I can 
still do logical design with the best of them (I also spent time as a 
data modeler, as well as the usual programming gigs).  As a user, I'm 
less likely to be willing to put the time into learning the 
technicalities of newer tech stuff.


Dave Liesse



On 7/18/2015 18:25, James E Lang wrote:

The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: What 
operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at home and at work? 
What factors influence the choice?

To set the tone, here are my answers:

• I am retired so "at work" is not applicable
• At home we have a desktop dual boot Windows XP (and Ubuntu Linux) computer, a 
laptop dual boot Kubuntu Linux (and pre-installed Windows Vista) computer and 
several other laptop, desktop, and dedicated server (Ubuntu Linux based) 
computers. I also have Android Lollipop, Android Kit Kat, and Android Jelly 
Bean tablets and phones. I have nothing from Apple.
• Windows XP is used primarily for single player gaming and e-Sword Bible 
software though it also is used to run LO, FireFox and Pegasus Mail 
(proprietary though free of cost).
• Kubuntu Linux is my general purpose "go to" environment. My first Linux 
system used what I believe was the penultimate marketed version from SuSE before the 
first release of Open SuSE. I liked the flexibility that was inherent in the KDE desktop 
environment and found the UI to be quite similar to that of Windows at the time. I have 
briefly tried Gnome and Unity desktop environments but KDE is my personal first choice.
• If I had a tablet computer that I thought could support my Linux usage it, 
too, would run Kubuntu Linux, LO, etc.
• Apple equipment is too expensive for me and from what I've heard about the 
company's software policies, they are too restrictive to suit me.
• Dual boot capabilities are seldom used to deviate from the above information.
• The BSODs on Windows influenced my initial adoption of Linux.




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[libreoffice-users] Empty Rulers in Draw

[alnuwer]

I started a new file in Draw where the rulers looked OK - had inch increments
displayed. I later opened it to continue work on it, but the rulers are
empty - no increments displayed, just blank rulers. How do I get the
measurements to display?

"Rulers visible" in Options is checked
Using LibreOffice version 4.3.7.2 & Windows 7

Thanks for your help!
 



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Re: [OT] [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 19/07/15 02:43 PM, Tom Williams wrote:

On 07/18/2015 07:51 PM, toki wrote:

On 07/18/2015 10:08 PM, James Knott wrote:


Tell that to all the scientists who use supercomputers.  The vast majority of 
them, including my cousin, run Linux.

If you want state of the art software, that costs a fortune, you run *Nix.

If you want almost state of the art, that costs a small fortune, it is
as likely to run on Mac OS X, as on Windows.

If you want software that is almost state of the art, but is
"affordable", you run Windows.

If you want software that is "good enough for most purposes", you run Linux.

Joe Sixpack wants something slightly better than "good enough for most
purposes", but doesn't want the cash outlay that state of the art
requires. Thus far, Windows has been that "happy medium".

jonathon


I disagree with most of this, but the "good enough for most purposes"
part really bothers me.  :)  "Joe Sixpack" is most familiar with Windows
and will stick with it.  Familiarity is definitely worth its weight in
gold.  :)

Peace...

"The other" Tom



Agreed. There may be some niche software that runs on Windows or Macs 
that beats the Linux alternatives but for general purposes, I find Linux 
to be far better. I hate working on Windows or Macs compared to Linux. 
There are just too many things that Windows and Macs don't do that are 
easy on Linux.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Joe Conner]

On 07/19/2015 04:52 AM, Rob Jasper wrote:

Tim,

agree with you there- Cobol was considered e great modern productivity 
improvement. I started in assembly. Getting a system running by inserting the 
bootstrapper papertape on the first punched holes, ste the start address 
through phisical switches and press the start butten. Only after the 
bootstrapper was loaded the rest of the program could be loaded

We came a long way since then, but I agree that all the new stuff around now is 
depriving young people from basic understanding that a computer doesn't know 
anything, and is not capable of doing anything by itself.

Rob.
No matter how far computers have come, they still cannot count higher 
than one.

Blessings, Joe

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Re: [OT] [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Tom Williams]

On 07/18/2015 07:51 PM, toki wrote:
>
> On 07/18/2015 10:08 PM, James Knott wrote:
>
>> Tell that to all the scientists who use supercomputers.  The vast majority 
>> of them, including my cousin, run Linux.  
> If you want state of the art software, that costs a fortune, you run *Nix.
>
> If you want almost state of the art, that costs a small fortune, it is
> as likely to run on Mac OS X, as on Windows.
>
> If you want software that is almost state of the art, but is
> "affordable", you run Windows.
>
> If you want software that is "good enough for most purposes", you run Linux.
>
> Joe Sixpack wants something slightly better than "good enough for most
> purposes", but doesn't want the cash outlay that state of the art
> requires. Thus far, Windows has been that "happy medium".
>
> jonathon
>
I disagree with most of this, but the "good enough for most purposes"
part really bothers me.  :)  "Joe Sixpack" is most familiar with Windows
and will stick with it.  Familiarity is definitely worth its weight in
gold.  :)

Peace...

"The other" Tom

-- 
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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[Tom Williams]

On 07/19/2015 07:52 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :) 
> If Win8 started up at the normal desktop (as it can be set to do now)
> and then the Metro stuff is used just as the old;
>
> "Start" button - "All Programs" 
>
> Then it's kinda ok - err after adding in new tiles for Kodi,
> LibreOffice, Chrome/Firefox etc, removing quite a lot of the default
> useless ones and moving around all the tiles into something that makes
> some kind of sense and makes useful programs/documents/things easier
> to get to.  Then using the "Windows key" brings up that programs menu. 
> Regards from
> Tom :) 

You know, you raise another point about Windows 8.1 that irks me.  Many,
if not most, think one of the main problems with Windows 8 is/was the
missing "Start" menu.  I truly don't miss the "Start" menu and don't
like any window managers or desktop environments that try to retain that
look/behavior.  I think GNOME shell got it right by having the
"Applications" menu, where one would find the applications they wanted
to run. But I digress... anyway, I don't miss the "Start" menu at all. 
I don't like how Metro has its tiles laid out.  Look at ANY new desktop
or laptop system with Windows 8 pre-installed.  After the initial setup
process, you see the Metro desktop and its tiles.  Where is the MS
Office tile?  Off to the far right somewhere, requiring you to scroll to
see it.  I'm on a *desktop* system and using a Word processor is
something I'm probably going to want to do so why not put the tile for
MS Office in the same set of tiles where you can EASILY access the
online stuff? Stupid strike #1.

When I'm on the desktop "side", I can double-click a photo to see it. 
If I'm not careful, I can get flipped to the Metro "side" and view the
photo.  Cool.  When I'm done looking at the photo, I have no clue what
to do because the "X" to close the "window" isn't in view (I have to
know to move the mouse to the top of the screen to get it to appear). 
Stupid strike #2 (the flip from the desktop to Metro).

Now, these aren't things I've personally struggled with but things I've
personally witnessed many others struggle with as they get new computers
I setup for them.

To be fair, I have no issue with Windows 8's underpinnings and security
changes.  It's mostly the UI behavior I have issue with.  Of course, if
one wants to take the time to learn how to use Windows 8 effectively and
efficiently, more power to them.  I would also state, if they could take
the time to learn how to use Windows 8, they could (and should) take the
time to learn how to use LibreOffice effectively and efficiently instead
of slamming it for not looking or behaving exactly like MS Office.  :)

Peace...

"The other" Tom

> On 18 July 2015 at 22:59, Tom Williams  > wrote:
>
> On 07/18/2015 11:28 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > Something i really appreciate most about Linux is that it's so
> easy to
> > change the gui - or more importantly that if you don't like the
> crazy new
> > things that have been done to the gui then you can fairly easily
> go back to
> > the old one or on to something else entirely.  The under-laying
> system
> > remains the same.
> "Back in the day", I used to have 3 or 4 window managers I used to
> switch between.  lol
>
> As for Windows 8's metro, I mean "modern" UI, I'm not digging it and I
> never have.
>
> "The other" Tom
>
> --
> /When we dance, you have a way with me,
> Stay with me... Sway with me.../
>
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[Felmon Davis]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015, Tom Davies wrote:


Hi :)
Err, i tend to stick with Unity for myself.

Some of my work-colleagues couldn't cope with the simplicity and the way it
doesn't look like Xp or Win7.  So i had a quick look at KDE again and was
surprised at how fast it's become.  It even out-performed Cinnamon and Mate
and even LXDE on many of our ancient machines AND it looked quite similar
to Xp/Win7.  Quite a few people found it much easier to use.


people who liked kde3 might try an active development of it called 
Trinity Desktop ; I favor a branch 
called exegnu ; I think both make a 
livecd/usb.


it is debian-based and you may have to do a couple of things to get 
the wifi drivers for your system.


my only association with these projects is as a contented user. 
"mileage may vary."


f.


So i've been using it myself quite a bit and found how to fix some of the
inevitable teething problems in any 'new' system.  Any system needs a bit
of tweaking in order to get it working the way anyone would be happy with
so i've been finding a few of those out for myself.  However i really like
Unity now [shrugs].  For me the big advantage of KDE is that now i can do
more distro-hopping and try out many different distros while keeping a
fairly familiar Gui/DE/Window-manager.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 18 July 2015 at 22:59, Tom Williams  wrote:


On 07/18/2015 11:28 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> Something i really appreciate most about Linux is that it's so easy to
> change the gui - or more importantly that if you don't like the crazy new
> things that have been done to the gui then you can fairly easily go back
to
> the old one or on to something else entirely.  The under-laying system
> remains the same.
"Back in the day", I used to have 3 or 4 window managers I used to
switch between.  lol

As for Windows 8's metro, I mean "modern" UI, I'm not digging it and I
never have.

"The other" Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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--
Felmon Davis

Advice is a dangerous gift; be cautious about giving and receiving it.

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[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Err, i tend to stick with Unity for myself.

Some of my work-colleagues couldn't cope with the simplicity and the way it
doesn't look like Xp or Win7.  So i had a quick look at KDE again and was
surprised at how fast it's become.  It even out-performed Cinnamon and Mate
and even LXDE on many of our ancient machines AND it looked quite similar
to Xp/Win7.  Quite a few people found it much easier to use.

So i've been using it myself quite a bit and found how to fix some of the
inevitable teething problems in any 'new' system.  Any system needs a bit
of tweaking in order to get it working the way anyone would be happy with
so i've been finding a few of those out for myself.  However i really like
Unity now [shrugs].  For me the big advantage of KDE is that now i can do
more distro-hopping and try out many different distros while keeping a
fairly familiar Gui/DE/Window-manager.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 18 July 2015 at 22:59, Tom Williams  wrote:

> On 07/18/2015 11:28 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > Something i really appreciate most about Linux is that it's so easy to
> > change the gui - or more importantly that if you don't like the crazy new
> > things that have been done to the gui then you can fairly easily go back
> to
> > the old one or on to something else entirely.  The under-laying system
> > remains the same.
> "Back in the day", I used to have 3 or 4 window managers I used to
> switch between.  lol
>
> As for Windows 8's metro, I mean "modern" UI, I'm not digging it and I
> never have.
>
> "The other" Tom
>
> --
> /When we dance, you have a way with me,
> Stay with me... Sway with me.../
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[John R. Sowden]

always a good idea.  this should be done about once every 6 mo. to also 
track trends.  first the questions should be suggested and agreed upon. 
then, before the next survey 6 mo. down the road, we discuss 
modifications to the list; probably more additions than deletions, maybe 
a few wording changes.


John


On 07/19/2015 08:12 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Hello everyone,

James Knott  @ 2015-07-19 03:43 CEST:


On 07/18/2015 09:25 PM, James E Lang wrote:

The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: What 
operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at home and at work? 
What factors influence the choice?


Personal:
All computers run openSUSE 13.1
ThinkPad E520 came with Windows 7 and can dual boot
Run Windows 10 in VirtualBox
Google Nexus 5 phone and Nexus 7 tablet

Work: (I didn't choose either of these.)
ThinkPad X131e running Windows 8.1
iPhone 6


I like Linux, ThinkPads and Android.

If anybody's interested in broadening the audience of this survey, we can
create an actual online survey and attract several hundreds/thousands
Libreoffice users. It's always good to collect this kind of information.  Just 
let me/us know.

Cheers,




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[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Both Cinnamon and Mate (pronounced similarly to Latte) are both supposedly
"drop in replacements" for the "Gnome" DE that Ubuntu used to use.

They both started with the same code-base that everyone using a Gnome DE on
any distro was familiar with and then just upgraded it.  VERY similar to
the way LibreOffice has evolved from OpenOffice.

The new Gnome was heading in a direction that almost no-one liked -
apparently they were moving away from touch and away from accessibility.
Hence so many forks appearing and also distros moving to other DEs.  Ubuntu
found that an almost unheard-of DE was aiming for greater accessibility and
opening up greater flexibility for touch gestures and stuff.  Also being
such a tiny team would give Ubuntu more opportunity to steer them if
needed.  The Gnome people dug their heels in and wouldn't budge from their
plans to return to a by-gone era.

Cinnamon and Mate are now well-established, just as LibreOffice is.
Doubtless there are many people working in and sharing code and/or ideas
between many such projects.


It is very possible to install Mate or Cinnamon into most distros now.  At
the login screen you might see a logo for the default DE, or a drop-down
menu, where you can switch from one to another.  So you can kinda
test-drive different DEs in a single working install of whichever distro.
Much of the "under the bonnet" stuff you ask about tends to go with
whichever DE was the most recently installed but some stuff remains the
same.  So it's not a perfect test-drive but might help give you an idea.

It's probably best to create a new partition and test-drive some of these
things yourself.  A virtual machine might be quite good too but a
bare-metal install has to deal with the quirkiness of real hardware and
might give a better idea of how things really work.
Regards from
Tom :)


On 18 July 2015 at 19:48, Johnny Rosenberg  wrote:

> >
> > Tom, you might want to take a look at Linux Mint (current version 17.2) ;
> > if you're using a desktop as your main box, I think you will find the
> GUI -
> > I personally prefer Cinnamon - far superior to Ubuntu's Unity (Cinnamon
> > can, of course, be installed on Ubuntu to replace Unity) and the OS is a
> > dream to use. On my triple-boot machine, it boots (from GRUB), for
> example,
> > much more quickly than Windows 8.1 Pro, which I keep around solely in
> order
> > to be able to help retirees with their Windows problems. It doesn't
> > require, as does Windows, that the machine be rebooted just about every
> > time a minor update is installed, and things like the BSOD simply don't
> > appear
>
> You guys who use Mint with Cinnamon (from now on I will only say
> ”Mint”, but I mean Mint with the Cinnamon desktop every time), I would
> like to know a little more about a few details, if you don't mind:
> I currently use Ubuntu 14.04 and I have used Ubuntu since 7.04. I was
> very impressed by the first version I installed, then even more
> impressed for every new version up to 10.10. After that it seems like
> the Ubuntu team spied on my. ”Now, let's see what features Johnny
> Rosenberg like to use… aha… aha… I see… yes, that one too, ok, let's
> remove them!”
>
> So basically everything that I like with Ubuntu is gone now or doesn't
> work. Let's asume that I want to give Mint with Cinnamon a go, what
> about the following?
> In old Ubuntu version, let's say a wrote a Bash script that I intended
> to use with FLAC files. That's not too crazy, because I actually wrote
> quite a few such scripts…
> Now, I want to run these scripts with on FLAC files without too much
> effort. I just want to right click a FLAC file, then ”Open with” and
> finally just select my script.
>
> To make this happen, in old Ubuntu I could just right click a FLAC
> file → Properties → Open with, and from there just enter a command
> line manually to reach my script.
> This is of course impossible in Ubuntu 14.04. There are methods, but
> none of them works. I have edited text files, been fiddling around
> with Ubuntu Tweak and other tools, but no success. Nautilus Actions
> doesn't seem to work properly anymore and so on. It's possible to use
> the Script folder (~/.local/share/nautilus/scripts) but then my script
> will be available for ALL kinds of files. Not good.
> What about Mint in this case?
>
> I use icons on my desktop. Maybe I shouldn't, but I find it
> convenient. I try to have just a few of them, though. Anyway, I want
> my icons on certain places and in certain sizes. I size up important
> icons, for instance. This works in Ubuntu, but when I logout and then
> login again, or restart the computer, all of my desktop icons are the
> same size again and placed from up to down, left to right in
> alphabetic order…
> Does this work properly in Mint?
>
> My Android phone always appear on different places. If I write a
> script that will move files to and from my phone, I need to write
> special routines to determine where the phone is located. 

Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[Charles-H . Schulz]

Hello everyone,

James Knott  @ 2015-07-19 03:43 CEST:

> On 07/18/2015 09:25 PM, James E Lang wrote:
>> The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: What 
>> operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at home and at 
>> work? What factors influence the choice?
>>
>
> Personal:
> All computers run openSUSE 13.1
> ThinkPad E520 came with Windows 7 and can dual boot
> Run Windows 10 in VirtualBox
> Google Nexus 5 phone and Nexus 7 tablet
>
> Work: (I didn't choose either of these.)
> ThinkPad X131e running Windows 8.1
> iPhone 6
>
>
> I like Linux, ThinkPads and Android.

If anybody's interested in broadening the audience of this survey, we can
create an actual online survey and attract several hundreds/thousands
Libreoffice users. It's always good to collect this kind of information.  Just 
let me/us know.

Cheers,

-- 
Charles-H. Schulz Co-founder, The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 
10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal 
details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 
65 54 24.

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Libre Office Base

[Andreas Säger]

Am 19.07.2015 um 06:33 schrieb Peter Goggin:
> 
>  For my current needs I have found Libre Base more than adequate. 


Indeed, I have no important office document that is not connected to
some type of database -- one way or the other, dBase, HSQL server, csv,
spreadsheet or H2 SQL.
My users are very happy with my data sources but whenever they need
something different or something new, they have to contact me.

Common misconceptions:
Base is a development tool. It is not for end users. The result of your
work should be aimed at end users.
As soon as you create your first database table, you develop your own
data structure, a user-defined storage format so to say where data types
play the most important role. Most office users can not even comprehend
the difference between text and values in a spreadsheet. Relations and
indices are further refinements of your data structure. Proper database
design requires some knowledge beforehand. Learning by doing is not an
option here.
The database has nothing to do with Base. HSQL, MySQL, Calc or your
Microsoft ADO driver work independently. First of all, you work with
these programs while developing with Base.
Base provides forms for the aledged end user to fill your predefined
data structures. The input form transfers meaningful information into
data which are stored in your structures. Form design is development
work as well. It requires that you fully understand the underlying data
structures and how to utilize the limited set of (sub-)forms and their
form controls. Form design is also the place where most of the macro
development takes place (if any).
Queries turn meaningless data into meaningful information. Reports dump
information to printable office documents.

End users load forms to type information into the right places of your
structure and they load reports, form letters, spreadsheets to fetch
some of the stored data as meaningful information.
All the questionable "helpers" that were implemented back in 2005
(OpenOffice.org 2.0) have not much improved since then and they are
mostly obsolete. Any person with the mind set of a developer is better
off without them.
Nevertheless, we have to recognize that >90% of all Base documents out
there link spreadsheets to form letters. In this very limited context,
the existing primitive query designer adds some extra value for those
who never wrote a single SQL statement.


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[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
If Win8 started up at the normal desktop (as it can be set to do now) and
then the Metro stuff is used just as the old;

"Start" button - "All Programs"

Then it's kinda ok - err after adding in new tiles for Kodi, LibreOffice,
Chrome/Firefox etc, removing quite a lot of the default useless ones and
moving around all the tiles into something that makes some kind of sense
and makes useful programs/documents/things easier to get to.  Then using
the "Windows key" brings up that programs menu.
Regards from
Tom :)




On 18 July 2015 at 22:59, Tom Williams  wrote:

> On 07/18/2015 11:28 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > Something i really appreciate most about Linux is that it's so easy to
> > change the gui - or more importantly that if you don't like the crazy new
> > things that have been done to the gui then you can fairly easily go back
> to
> > the old one or on to something else entirely.  The under-laying system
> > remains the same.
> "Back in the day", I used to have 3 or 4 window managers I used to
> switch between.  lol
>
> As for Windows 8's metro, I mean "modern" UI, I'm not digging it and I
> never have.
>
> "The other" Tom
>
> --
> /When we dance, you have a way with me,
> Stay with me... Sway with me.../
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[yahoo-pier_andreit]

On 07/19/2015 03:25 AM, James E Lang wrote:

The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: What 
operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at home and at work? 
What factors influence the choice?

To set the tone, here are my answers:

here are mines:
Personal:
All computers (3 mine, 1 my son, 1 mysister) runs openSUSE 13.2 or 13.1 
 virtualbox with windows7 and dual booted with windows7

3 android phones

work:
usually I use many computers, windows 2000, 98, XP, 7, 8, and 8.1;
macintosh yosemite;
linux opensuse 13.2.
in all of them from windows XP to 8.1 mac and linux I use libreoffice 
and microsoft word and excel and filemakerpro and imagej and gimp and 
irfanview.
recently a collegue start to use python to switch from labview so also 
python start to works on these pc.
about 10 oscilloscopes with windows 98, vista(terrible), XP, 7; one with 
linux(terrible too)

bye :-)

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[James Knott]

On 07/19/2015 07:52 AM, Rob Jasper wrote:
> Getting a system running by inserting the bootstrapper papertape on the first 
> punched holes

On my first computer, I had to use the front toggle several bytes into
memory, before there was anything to run.  I also worked on some Data
General Nova computers which had the boot loader option.  I also worked
on a PDP-8i, where I had to toggle in the "RIM loader" before it could boot.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Rob Jasper]

Tim,

agree with you there- Cobol was considered e great modern productivity 
improvement. I started in assembly. Getting a system running by inserting the 
bootstrapper papertape on the first punched holes, ste the start address 
through phisical switches and press the start butten. Only after the 
bootstrapper was loaded the rest of the program could be loaded

We came a long way since then, but I agree that all the new stuff around now is 
depriving young people from basic understanding that a computer doesn't know 
anything, and is not capable of doing anything by itself.

Rob.

On 19 jul. 2015, at 02:02, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

> On 07/18/2015 11:54 AM, charles meyer wrote:
>> Hi Jack,
>> 
>> You’re most welcome.
>> 
>> I think many Windows users are married to old verbiage they heard
>> years ago (some unfounded) about how you’ll need to learn to code or
>> have to learn language like the old DOS to make Linux work and so
>> propelled by fear they remain with Windows.
>> 
>> I’m looking forward to all the good work and advancement Eric (on this
>> list) makes with his foray into voice recognition but can you or Gary
>> on this list or others recommend any Linux-based voice recognition?
>> 
>> Nuance has dragged their heels in so many ways including developing
>> voice recognition for more than one voice at a time so I don’t feel
>> like I can count on them to offer a Linux-based version by 2020 when
>> MS is supposed to end W7 support.
>> 
>> Thanks for disabusing readers of their “Linux-fear” in your article
>> and for your and others voice recognition recommendations.
>> 
>> Charles.
>> 
> 
> I started with computers when punch-cards were still common and computers 
> smaller than a refrigerator was not.
> 
> I wished I still remembered all the programming skills I have back then [but 
> that ended with the strokes].  Users are pampered with a GUI and other 
> "modern" items on their really small sized systems, compared to what I 
> started working with.  You try writing a general ledger accounting system 
> from scratch in COBOL and then tell me that people do not have it so easy 
> now.  Well, at least if you do not have to do the GUI programming from 
> scratch instead of using templates, or needing to do AI work withing a game 
> environment.  But the basic business stuff was much harder to produce back 
> then when colored printing, or even graphical printing, from a low to middle 
> environment business computer was not available at all.  I was programming 
> computers for over a decade before I ever saw a colored printer, let alone 
> afford one.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[James Wilde]

My son is a technical illiterate and one time, when I had got tired of
rescuing his scsrewed-up (often virus-infected) Windows box, I gave him
Ubuntu.  He only uses his computer to surf to his webmail and to
facebook.  Nonetheless, he came to me after a week and asked me to
re-install Windows as he 'didn't understand how to use linux'.  So now I
have an iso of his disk which I reinstall as necessary.  There's never
anything on the actual disk other than the operating system.

James
 
On 2015-07-19 02:02, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> On 07/18/2015 11:54 AM, charles meyer wrote:
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> You’re most welcome.
>>
>> I think many Windows users are married to old verbiage they heard
>> years ago (some unfounded) about how you’ll need to learn to code or
>> have to learn language like the old DOS to make Linux work and so
>> propelled by fear they remain with Windows.
>>
>> I’m looking forward to all the good work and advancement Eric (on this
>> list) makes with his foray into voice recognition but can you or Gary
>> on this list or others recommend any Linux-based voice recognition?
>>
>> Nuance has dragged their heels in so many ways including developing
>> voice recognition for more than one voice at a time so I don’t feel
>> like I can count on them to offer a Linux-based version by 2020 when
>> MS is supposed to end W7 support.
>>
>> Thanks for disabusing readers of their “Linux-fear” in your article
>> and for your and others voice recognition recommendations.
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>
> I started with computers when punch-cards were still common and
> computers smaller than a refrigerator was not.
>
> I wished I still remembered all the programming skills I have back
> then [but that ended with the strokes].  Users are pampered with a GUI
> and other "modern" items on their really small sized systems, compared
> to what I started working with.  You try writing a general ledger
> accounting system from scratch in COBOL and then tell me that people
> do not have it so easy now.  Well, at least if you do not have to do
> the GUI programming from scratch instead of using templates, or
> needing to do AI work withing a game environment.  But the basic
> business stuff was much harder to produce back then when colored
> printing, or even graphical printing, from a low to middle environment
> business computer was not available at all.  I was programming
> computers for over a decade before I ever saw a colored printer, let
> alone afford one.
>
>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OT] Operating Environment Survey

[James Wilde]

Before I became a pensioner my work environment was Sun Solaris, but my
workstation was Redhat later Ubuntu linux.  I had Windows 7 in a
Virtualbox for some administrative functions which required Windows. 
Others in my group (sysops) used other varieties of linux.  The grunts
used Windows.

At home my son gave me his pensioned off  Macbook, at which I swore for
a week, and suddenly became a devoted Mac user.  My wife uses Windows 7,
I use Mavericks on my Mac Mini, Ubuntu 14-04 on my linux machine.  Both
machines have Virtualbox, and I'm trying to get OSX running on the linux
box.  I have it in a Virtualbox at the moment.

My Mac Mini and Ubuntu box both run Libreoffice.  My wife's machine has
LIbreoffice and MS Office, which she uses from force of habit.  I'm a
little amused that my wife will be getting a Mac (model unknown, but
probably running Yosemite) in the autumn as her new job-computer.  She's
already taking lessons on my machine!

James

On 2015-07-19 03:25, James E Lang wrote:
> The big discussion of Linux over the past 24+ hours has me wondering: What 
> operating environment(s) do other members of this list use at home and at 
> work? What factors influence the choice?
>
> To set the tone, here are my answers:
>
> • I am retired so "at work" is not applicable
> • At home we have a desktop dual boot Windows XP (and Ubuntu Linux) computer, 
> a laptop dual boot Kubuntu Linux (and pre-installed Windows Vista) computer 
> and several other laptop, desktop, and dedicated server (Ubuntu Linux based) 
> computers. I also have Android Lollipop, Android Kit Kat, and Android Jelly 
> Bean tablets and phones. I have nothing from Apple.
> • Windows XP is used primarily for single player gaming and e-Sword Bible 
> software though it also is used to run LO, FireFox and Pegasus Mail 
> (proprietary though free of cost).
> • Kubuntu Linux is my general purpose "go to" environment. My first Linux 
> system used what I believe was the penultimate marketed version from SuSE 
> before the first release of Open SuSE. I liked the flexibility that was 
> inherent in the KDE desktop environment and found the UI to be quite similar 
> to that of Windows at the time. I have briefly tried Gnome and Unity desktop 
> environments but KDE is my personal first choice.
> • If I had a tablet computer that I thought could support my Linux usage it, 
> too, would run Kubuntu Linux, LO, etc.
> • Apple equipment is too expensive for me and from what I've heard about the 
> company's software policies, they are too restrictive to suit me.
> • Dual boot capabilities are seldom used to deviate from the above 
> information.
> • The BSODs on Windows influenced my initial adoption of Linux.
>


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