[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread Pedro

Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> Bad idea. As MS-Office formats are foreign formats for LibreOffice, your
> users wil have a less good user experience with LibO because you force
> the software to make format conversions each time you open or save a
> document.
> 

Yes, but that is what the user is asking for. Trying to convince people to
switch from Office suite AND file format seems to me the best way to repel
users...

Is there a way to do what he asked?


Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
> your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
> If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
> right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
> with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
> doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
> reference version.

That is IMO a bad idea. If you need to send an editable file and you work on
ODF, converting to Word at the last minute (i.e. before sending) is the
WORST option possible. It is almost 100% guaranteed that the document
(unless it's ONLY plain text) will NOT look the same.

So if you know that the person receiving it needs Doc, the best option is to
work on Doc from the start.

 
Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
> 

I agree completely ;)

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread Andreas Säger

Why not using standardized file formats in MS Office?



http://www.osor.eu/news/danish-hospital-hassle-free-use-of-odf-across-competing-office-suites
The Danish Århus University Hospital in Risskov, a long-time user of 
OpenOffice, says there are no problems at all exchanging ODF-based documents 
with other hospitals using Microsoft's proprietary Office 2003.




http://www.freeware-downloads.org/download/programm.php?pro=sun-odf-plugin




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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread Pedro

Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> No, because you will have exactly the same problem: even if you save in
> MS-Office formats, LibO use ODF as internal format, so you have a
> conversion problem each time you save your file.
> 

That is a really interesting fact but also extremely worrying. I'm sure that
even with the warning most (all?) users assumed that if you stay within a
format (e.g. always doc) you wouldn't have problems when saving your
document.

What you are saying is that when you press the Save button in a doc file
(and you are not informed of this problem when you just Save it, only on
Save As) there is a conversion that causes the document NOT to be saved as
you are seeing it on-screen but could be something else completely
different...


Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> And it is not prohibited to be careful and check your converted file
> before to send it.
> 

That is true. But when you are working within the same format, you assume
that what is on screen is what is being saved!


Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> On other hand if, during editing your document, you avoid the use of
> manual formatting, use only predefined style (you can modify them
> without problem) and do not use exotic fonts, then conversion problems
> will be dramatically reduced.
> 

That is sound advice. But most users aren't that efficient with styles ;)

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread Andreas Säger

Am 02.10.2011 13:49, Pedro wrote:


That is true. But when you are working within the same format, you assume
that what is on screen is what is being saved!



If you want to save what you see on the screen you've got to save a 
screenshot.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-03 Thread Andreas Säger

Am 03.10.2011 11:34, e-letter wrote:


For those seeking to use LO as an m$ clone, either make a donation to
LO for the time you are wasting for LO compatibility with m$ or
preferably, pay m$ and continue to use m$ products. When you find m$
formats 2010, 2011, 95, rtf, pptx, ppty, pptz are incompatible, please
send your requests to m$, not here.



AMEN!
This should be emphasized over and over again. Importing MS Office 
formats reasonably well is just one extra to this office suite which is 
a completely different program that is entirely built around a 
completely free set of file formats.
Being the world-wide second best editor for doc/xls/ppt is a secondary 
aspect. It is required to do the transition away from those file formats 
which of course happens against the interest of Microsoft.


"Compatibility" of any kind can not be a one-way-street.
If MS realy wanted to support ODF perfectly, it would be a matter of 
weeks because their software is powerful enough to cover almost every 
single aspect of our file format. They could ask the OOo/LibO community 
for all kinds of help if they really wanted (no, they must not want 
this!). ODF is not designed for one particular office software. It is a 
file format which is not too complex and free of legal implications. ODF 
does not imply that the interpreting software works in the exact same 
ways as any other software.
All this is not true for MS Office formats which are built around one 
particular, very huge and most complex office suite. Any other program 
which wants to be 100% compatible needs to work exactly the same as that 
other suite which would be far beyond reasonable effort.
Just take the mere size of the multi-lingual download package from 
download.libreoffice.org and compare it with the smallest set of MS 
Office applications. The mere Microsoft document _viewers_ for 
doc(x)/xls(x)/ppt(x) [and nothing else] have the same download size as 
the full OpenOffice.org 3 suite.


You can turn MS Office into a perfect ODF application:

http://www.osor.eu/news/danish-hospital-hassle-free-use-of-odf-across-competing-office-suites
The Danish Århus University Hospital in Risskov, a long-time user of 
OpenOffice, says there are no problems at all exchanging ODF-based documents 
with other hospitals using Microsoft's proprietary Office 2003.




http://www.freeware-downloads.org/download/programm.php?pro=sun-odf-plugin
The sun-odf-plugin installs the most important parts of OOo 3.2 under 
the hood of MS Office.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-03 Thread Andreas Säger

Am 03.10.2011 11:49, Marcello Romani wrote:


This is not the kind of attitude that will attract MS Office users to
LibO/OOo or here to ask for advice.
Very smart of you.
Next time think twice before hitting "send", and ask yourself: will
these insults help LibO/OOo ?



The myth of an MS Office clone is by far more frustrating because it 
waists a lot of time with very unproductive experiments. This is not a 
question of partisanship. People should use whatever software works for 
them.
There are many cases where they do not really want anything else but MS 
software and there are rare cases where LibreOffice will not work for 
them, so they should buy MSO and be happy with it.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-03 Thread Pedro

Andreas Säger wrote:
> 
> The myth of an MS Office clone is by far more frustrating because it 
> waists a lot of time with very unproductive experiments. This is not a 
> question of partisanship. People should use whatever software works for 
> them.
> 

This is not a matter of being a clone. If a user or company wants to migrate
(and I believe that TDF and LO want that in spite of your personal opinion)
from MS Office to LO they need to be able to convert their existing
documents. 

Companies and individuals using LO must be able to send documents to users
who can't (or do not want) to use LO.

I think that your comments and e-letter's were most unfortunate.

That is not the spirit of a Free (as in beer and in speech) software
project.

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-03 Thread Andreas Säger

Am 03.10.2011 11:38, e-letter wrote:


By coincedence, was thinking about this whilst looking at the menu bar
'file'. There are 'save as' and 'export' options.

Wouldn't be better from a design perspective to use the 'save as'
option only for odf formats, and the option 'export' for non-odf (pdf,
png, html, etc.) formats?



The logic behind the current behaviour is this:
There are file types we can read and write, others we can only read and 
a third category we can only write.


R/W types appear in File>Open and in File>SaveAs. When you save any type 
to another type you continue working with the new file and every save 
will convert the document model to the respective file type.


Read-only types open read-only and for editing you have to save them 
under a different name with a different type using the save-as dialog or 
pushing the edit button. The latter options produces a new unsaved 
instance of the document you can work with until you save it in a 
writable format.


Write-Only types are always exported as a file copy snapshot. You keep 
on working with the editable document since the exported file format is 
not editable anyway.




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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-03 Thread Andreas Säger

Am 03.10.2011 12:30, Pedro wrote:


This is not a matter of being a clone. If a user or company wants to migrate
(and I believe that TDF and LO want that in spite of your personal opinion)
from MS Office to LO they need to be able to convert their existing
documents.



But then you need a software which supports each and every aspect of the 
foreign file format in the same way. This comes very close to writing a 
clone of the other software. This is why the Sun ODF plug-in for MS 
Office amounts to 80+ MB. It produces perfect ODF because it basically 
installs a clone of OOo 3.2 under the hood of the other office suite.


The dilemma is perfect when the application's native file format 
provides only a sub-set of the attributes that can be stored in the 
foreign format. This is why life would be so much easier if MS would 
support ODF. Their "bigger" software could do this much easier than our 
software will ever support their formats, particularly when they 
constantly "extend" their own formats in order to be as incompatible as 
possible.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-03 Thread Andreas Säger

Am 03.10.2011 18:28, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

On 03/10/2011 17:21, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote:

I wonder if you can use that "filter" with 2007?

Yes you can, and it works much better (as you said) than the built-in
MSO filters.
Unfortunately if you don't have a copy already then Sun require payment
for it now, unless you know someone like me who got it when it was free!


Here you are:

http://www.freeware-downloads.org/download/programm.php?pro=sun-odf-plugin





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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-11-02 Thread Charlotte18
Vinod Nadiadwala  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> Hi,
> I am migrating my company's pc to libreoffice on windows, all my users
> are using windows terminal services, now i want to set default file save
> format to MS-Office i.e. .doc, .xls, .ppt to all users.
> 
> I know how to do it manually, but i want to it to be applied to all
> users using some registry entry or configuration file, is there any way to
> do it, as i have 200+ pc's in my company and configuring each user is some
> hectic job, let me know if solution if anybody have.
> 
> Thanks for the great job LibreOffice developers,
> 
> Vino
> 


The responses so far have been extremely helpful, but let me be even more
helpful and tell you how to accomplish what you want.  Inside the Program Files
folder, you'll see the LibreOffice application folder.  Open it and navigate to
the following folder:

\Basis3.4\share\registry

Use a text editor to alter three files in that "registry" folder. 

The first is writer.xcd

Open the writer.xcd file with Notepad, and make the following change:

The line that reads as follows . . .

writer8

. . . should be changed to read:

MS Word 97

Next, open the calc.xcd file with Notepad, and make the following change:

The line that reads as follows . . .

calc8

. . . should be changed to read:

MS Excel 97

Finally, open the impress.xcd file with Notepad, and make the following change:

The line that reads as follows . . .

impress8

. . . should be changed to read:

MS PowerPoint 97

Now, all users will default to .doc, .xls, and .ppt when they go to File > Save.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-11-03 Thread Charlotte18
Yes, but the OP states that he knows how to set the Load/Save settings in the
GUI. He wants to use a configuration file to push MS defaults to all users. 

I responded with instructions to accomplish his specific request. Many other
responders here berated the OP and, although they're obviously experts in all
things LibreOffice and in computing ethics, they withheld their "expert"
knowledge because they hold ideological opinions that are at odds with the OP. 


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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-11-03 Thread Tom
Hi :)
I thought Charlotte's answer looked excellent.  ES Champ's is the one i am
more familiar with.  I think both only set-up for a single machine?  

If so then you could copy the config folder as that contains all the
settings, templates, galleries and extensions/add-ons/plugins and so on. 
This thread might help explain
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=12426

Somewhere in OpenOffice.org there were some excellent instructions for
corporate deployments.
Regards from
Tom :) 

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-11-03 Thread Charlotte18

> It seemed to me that your instructions required the OP to visit each
> machine and carry out your steps. Unless you're suggesting that the OP
> create new files and copy them to each machine?
> 

My impression is that the OP intends to build an image with the configuration
file for cloning multiple PCs, or he intends to write a script to push the files
out to the Program Files folder across the domain.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread Jean-Baptiste Faure
Le 02/10/2011 13:01, Pedro a écrit :
> [...]
> Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
>>
>> Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
>> your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
>> If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
>> right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
>> with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
>> doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
>> reference version.
> 
> That is IMO a bad idea. If you need to send an editable file and you work on
> ODF, converting to Word at the last minute (i.e. before sending) is the
> WORST option possible. It is almost 100% guaranteed that the document
> (unless it's ONLY plain text) will NOT look the same.
> 
> So if you know that the person receiving it needs Doc, the best option is to
> work on Doc from the start.

No, because you will have exactly the same problem: even if you save in
MS-Office formats, LibO use ODF as internal format, so you have a
conversion problem each time you save your file.

And it is not prohibited to be careful and check your converted file
before to send it.

On other hand if, during editing your document, you avoid the use of
manual formatting, use only predefined style (you can modify them
without problem) and do not use exotic fonts, then conversion problems
will be dramatically reduced.

JBF

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Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread planas
Hi

On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 13:31 +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: 

> Le 02/10/2011 13:01, Pedro a écrit :
> > [...]
> > Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> >>
> >> Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
> >> your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
> >> If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
> >> right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
> >> with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
> >> doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
> >> reference version.
> > 
> > That is IMO a bad idea. If you need to send an editable file and you work on
> > ODF, converting to Word at the last minute (i.e. before sending) is the
> > WORST option possible. It is almost 100% guaranteed that the document
> > (unless it's ONLY plain text) will NOT look the same.
> > 
> > So if you know that the person receiving it needs Doc, the best option is to
> > work on Doc from the start.
> 
> No, because you will have exactly the same problem: even if you save in
> MS-Office formats, LibO use ODF as internal format, so you have a
> conversion problem each time you save your file.
> 
> And it is not prohibited to be careful and check your converted file
> before to send it.
> 
> On other hand if, during editing your document, you avoid the use of
> manual formatting, use only predefined style (you can modify them
> without problem) and do not use exotic fonts, then conversion problems
> will be 

My experience is that using default settings for features, avoiding
macros, and otherwise not using the most advanced features in LO and MSO
will result in very few compatibility problems in both directions. 

> dramatically reduced.
> 
> JBF
> 
> -- 
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
> 



-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-10-02 Thread Brian Barker

At 04:49 02/10/2011 -0700, Pedro Noname wrote:
What [someone was] saying is that when you press the Save button in 
a doc file (and you are not informed of this problem when you just 
Save it, only on Save As) there is a conversion that causes the 
document NOT to be saved as you are seeing it on-screen but could be 
something else completely different...

[...]
But when you are working within the same format, you assume that 
what is on screen is what is being saved!


It should clear that this cannot be true.  Much of the structure of a 
word processor document is not directly visible on the editing 
screen.  (Consider, just as an example, paragraph breaks, line 
breaks, and line ends that occur dynamically as text flows within a 
passage - which all appear the same.)  The saved document file 
contains a definition of the document, and what you see on the 
editing screen is merely a rendering - accurate or otherwise - of 
that definition.  Even the same application software may render the 
document differently on different platforms, with different but 
identically named fonts or even substituted fonts, with different 
printers having different minimum margins, and so on.  The 
differences between renderings by a different version of the same 
software or by different software will generally be greater.


It is an understandable and convenient idea that your correspondents 
will automatically see what you see when they open your word 
processor document files, but that is not so.  But you need 
distribute such files only if you are co-operating with your 
correspondents in editing the material.  In the majority of cases, 
recipients need only to display, read, and possibly print your work, 
so PDF documents are a better bet.  As its name suggests, this format 
is designed to be more portable.


Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-11-02 Thread ESChamp
Another way that does not involve editing any files is this:

Tools > Options > Load/Save > General

In the right panel near the bottom are two drop-downs: Document type and
Always save as.

Select the doc type -- say, text document -- and then select Microsoft
Word 97/etc. in the save as box.

(I'd click OK here but it may not be necessary to do that until you've
set all three.)

Similarly for spreadsheet and presentation.

Charlotte18 has written on 11/2/2011 6:48 PM:
> Vinod Nadiadwala  gmail.com> writes:
>
> > 
> > Hi,
> > I am migrating my company's pc to libreoffice on windows, all my users
> > are using windows terminal services, now i want to set default file save
> > format to MS-Office i.e. .doc, .xls, .ppt to all users.
> > 
> > I know how to do it manually, but i want to it to be applied to all
> > users using some registry entry or configuration file, is there any way to
> > do it, as i have 200+ pc's in my company and configuring each user is some
> > hectic job, let me know if solution if anybody have.
> > 
> > Thanks for the great job LibreOffice developers,
> > 
> > Vino
> > 
>
>
> The responses so far have been extremely helpful, but let me be even more
> helpful and tell you how to accomplish what you want.  Inside the Program 
> Files
> folder, you'll see the LibreOffice application folder.  Open it and navigate 
> to
> the following folder:
>
> \Basis3.4\share\registry
>
> Use a text editor to alter three files in that "registry" folder. 
>
> The first is writer.xcd
>
> Open the writer.xcd file with Notepad, and make the following change:
>
> The line that reads as follows . . .
>
> writer8
>
> . . . should be changed to read:
>
> MS Word 97
>
> Next, open the calc.xcd file with Notepad, and make the following change:
>
> The line that reads as follows . . .
>
> calc8
>
> . . . should be changed to read:
>
> MS Excel 97
>
> Finally, open the impress.xcd file with Notepad, and make the following 
> change:
>
> The line that reads as follows . . .
>
> impress8
>
> . . . should be changed to read:
>
> MS PowerPoint 97
>
> Now, all users will default to .doc, .xls, and .ppt when they go to File > 
> Save.
>
>
>



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

2011-11-03 Thread ESChamp
Charlotte18 has written on 11/2/2011 9:23 PM:
> Yes, but the OP states that he knows how to set the Load/Save settings in the
> GUI. He wants to use a configuration file to push MS defaults to all users. 

I missed that.

> I responded with instructions to accomplish his specific request. 

It seemed to me that your instructions required the OP to visit each
machine and carry out your steps. Unless you're suggesting that the OP
create new files and copy them to each machine?




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