Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Romain, Yes, you may be right that it's either everybody or nobody. Coming up with any levels of entry is going to raise questions as we see :). I wasn't aware that my idea might be against ASF guidelines as it is somewhat based on its own sponsorship page ( https://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsors). Anyway, my point is moot if it's not allowed by those guidelines. Regarding your original suggestion, I'm not against it, although I am worried about that it might get out of hand, however I also see that we don't really have any means to anticipate if it does or not, so it might be that the only way is to try it out if the community leans toward it. Thanks, Viktor On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 4:15 PM Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: > Hi Viktor, > > Having a support page is ASF friendly and quite common for the reasons > mentionned in the ticket and these threads and aim at helping end users. > > I saw that Matthias was afraid of the maintenance of such a page but I > guess it costs nothing to merge François PR - or alike, accept the coming > proposals for a few months and see after some period if it stays something > moving a lot and if it becomes something the community can't handle - other > projects kind of show it is not the case and some projects are way more > used and supported than Kafka in terms of potential entries count - please > don't take it as an offense it is just an history and scope point - so > means they would have had the issue which is not what happent AFAIK. > > However please note that trying to promote cloudera, for example, because > it contributes often to Kafka and reject Yupiik because it just takes the > support side for now would be quite unfair on one side and strictly > speaking this would be against ASF policy (you can reread > https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct for example) so the > question is quite simple for me: it is everybody or nobody and if you pick > nobody, do you accept to make it harder for users to embrace Kafka (even if > it would be ok from an ASF standpoint, the spirit would be more to enable > that strictly speaking cause support is just part of the real life of such > a complex project). I really take the "can be hard to handle" point > seriously but trying that for 6 months or so does not cost much to the > community and if at the end it helps some users it is only a win IMHO. > > So overall my 2cts would be to try based on other projects model and if it > turns out Kafka is specific and it does not work for any reason, the page > can be dropped quite easily. > > Wdyt? > > Best, > > On 2024/01/15 14:35:15 Viktor Somogyi-Vass wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I think that making and updating such a list implies tricky questions > that > > we have to deal with. Good examples were given by Matthias, that was my > > first thought as well before reading his response. > > > > On the other hand I think it would be a good alternative to create a list > > of companies that are either regular or meaningful contributors to the > > project, provide other help such as testing infra or sponsors of the > > project in other ways. This may present those companies who provide > support > > too and I think it'd be some appreciation as well to display them. > > > > What do you all think? > > > > Best, > > Viktor > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:08 AM Francois Papon < > > francois.pa...@openobject.fr> wrote: > > > > > Hi Tison, > > > > > > Publishing a dedicated website for that can be a good idea, however if > > > the link of the website could not be mention in the official Apache > > > Kafka website I'm afraid that it will not be relevant. > > > > > > BTW, as I understand after all the feedback of the Apache Kafka PMC and > > > community, my proposal is not a good idea for the project so I will > > > close the PR. > > > > > > Thanks all for the feedback. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > François > > > > > > On 14/01/2024 12:56, tison wrote: > > > > FWIW - even if it's rejected by the Kafka PMC, you can maintain your > > > > own page for such information and provide your personal comments on > > > > them. If the object is to provide information and help users to make > > > > decisions, it should help. Although you should do the SEO by > yourself, > > > > if the information is somehow neutral and valuable, you can ask the > > > > @apachekafka Twitter (X) account to propagate it and provide a blog > > > > for Kafka blogs. > > > > > > > > This is the common way how third-party "evangelist" producing content > > > > and get it promoted. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > tison. > > > > > > > > Matthias J. Sax 于2024年1月13日周六 07:35写道： > > > >> François, > > > >> > > > >> thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's > > > >> necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, > however, I > > > >> share the same concerns others raised already. > > > >> > > > >> I understand your motivation that people had issues finding > commercial > > > >>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Viktor, Having a support page is ASF friendly and quite common for the reasons mentionned in the ticket and these threads and aim at helping end users. I saw that Matthias was afraid of the maintenance of such a page but I guess it costs nothing to merge François PR - or alike, accept the coming proposals for a few months and see after some period if it stays something moving a lot and if it becomes something the community can't handle - other projects kind of show it is not the case and some projects are way more used and supported than Kafka in terms of potential entries count - please don't take it as an offense it is just an history and scope point - so means they would have had the issue which is not what happent AFAIK. However please note that trying to promote cloudera, for example, because it contributes often to Kafka and reject Yupiik because it just takes the support side for now would be quite unfair on one side and strictly speaking this would be against ASF policy (you can reread https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct for example) so the question is quite simple for me: it is everybody or nobody and if you pick nobody, do you accept to make it harder for users to embrace Kafka (even if it would be ok from an ASF standpoint, the spirit would be more to enable that strictly speaking cause support is just part of the real life of such a complex project). I really take the "can be hard to handle" point seriously but trying that for 6 months or so does not cost much to the community and if at the end it helps some users it is only a win IMHO. So overall my 2cts would be to try based on other projects model and if it turns out Kafka is specific and it does not work for any reason, the page can be dropped quite easily. Wdyt? Best, On 2024/01/15 14:35:15 Viktor Somogyi-Vass wrote: > Hi all, > > I think that making and updating such a list implies tricky questions that > we have to deal with. Good examples were given by Matthias, that was my > first thought as well before reading his response. > > On the other hand I think it would be a good alternative to create a list > of companies that are either regular or meaningful contributors to the > project, provide other help such as testing infra or sponsors of the > project in other ways. This may present those companies who provide support > too and I think it'd be some appreciation as well to display them. > > What do you all think? > > Best, > Viktor > > > On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:08 AM Francois Papon < > francois.pa...@openobject.fr> wrote: > > > Hi Tison, > > > > Publishing a dedicated website for that can be a good idea, however if > > the link of the website could not be mention in the official Apache > > Kafka website I'm afraid that it will not be relevant. > > > > BTW, as I understand after all the feedback of the Apache Kafka PMC and > > community, my proposal is not a good idea for the project so I will > > close the PR. > > > > Thanks all for the feedback. > > > > regards, > > > > François > > > > On 14/01/2024 12:56, tison wrote: > > > FWIW - even if it's rejected by the Kafka PMC, you can maintain your > > > own page for such information and provide your personal comments on > > > them. If the object is to provide information and help users to make > > > decisions, it should help. Although you should do the SEO by yourself, > > > if the information is somehow neutral and valuable, you can ask the > > > @apachekafka Twitter (X) account to propagate it and provide a blog > > > for Kafka blogs. > > > > > > This is the common way how third-party "evangelist" producing content > > > and get it promoted. > > > > > > Best, > > > tison. > > > > > > Matthias J. Sax 于2024年1月13日周六 07:35写道： > > >> François, > > >> > > >> thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's > > >> necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I > > >> share the same concerns others raised already. > > >> > > >> I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial > > >> support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also > > >> "worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become > > >> long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka > > >> services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of > > >> entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are > > >> looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary > > >> drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also > > >> imagine that some companies offer their services only in some > > >> countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are > > >> looking for? > > >> > > >> Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it > > >> seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly > > >> against it, but I just don't see much value ei
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi all, I think that making and updating such a list implies tricky questions that we have to deal with. Good examples were given by Matthias, that was my first thought as well before reading his response. On the other hand I think it would be a good alternative to create a list of companies that are either regular or meaningful contributors to the project, provide other help such as testing infra or sponsors of the project in other ways. This may present those companies who provide support too and I think it'd be some appreciation as well to display them. What do you all think? Best, Viktor On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:08 AM Francois Papon < francois.pa...@openobject.fr> wrote: > Hi Tison, > > Publishing a dedicated website for that can be a good idea, however if > the link of the website could not be mention in the official Apache > Kafka website I'm afraid that it will not be relevant. > > BTW, as I understand after all the feedback of the Apache Kafka PMC and > community, my proposal is not a good idea for the project so I will > close the PR. > > Thanks all for the feedback. > > regards, > > François > > On 14/01/2024 12:56, tison wrote: > > FWIW - even if it's rejected by the Kafka PMC, you can maintain your > > own page for such information and provide your personal comments on > > them. If the object is to provide information and help users to make > > decisions, it should help. Although you should do the SEO by yourself, > > if the information is somehow neutral and valuable, you can ask the > > @apachekafka Twitter (X) account to propagate it and provide a blog > > for Kafka blogs. > > > > This is the common way how third-party "evangelist" producing content > > and get it promoted. > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > Matthias J. Sax 于2024年1月13日周六 07:35写道： > >> François, > >> > >> thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's > >> necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I > >> share the same concerns others raised already. > >> > >> I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial > >> support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also > >> "worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become > >> long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka > >> services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of > >> entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are > >> looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary > >> drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also > >> imagine that some companies offer their services only in some > >> countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are > >> looking for? > >> > >> Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it > >> seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly > >> against it, but I just don't see much value either. > >> > >> > >> -Matthias > >> > >> On 1/11/24 12:55 PM, Francois Papon wrote: > >>> Hi Justine, > >>> > >>> You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting, > >>> architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said > >>> that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for > my > >>> case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them). > >>> > >>> As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind > >>> of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project > >>> because I really think that it can help users. > >>> > >>> As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> François > >>> > >>> On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote: > Hey François, > > My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of > their > business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to > submit a > PR to be added. > > I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require > Kafka > having such a support page. > > Justine > > On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton < > fearthecel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi François, > > > > Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing > of > > commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other > > projects > > have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that > all > > projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very > > convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by > > the > > PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an > official > > ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should > > align > > with it. > > > > Best, > > > > Chris > > > > > > On Thu,
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Tison, Publishing a dedicated website for that can be a good idea, however if the link of the website could not be mention in the official Apache Kafka website I'm afraid that it will not be relevant. BTW, as I understand after all the feedback of the Apache Kafka PMC and community, my proposal is not a good idea for the project so I will close the PR. Thanks all for the feedback. regards, François On 14/01/2024 12:56, tison wrote: FWIW - even if it's rejected by the Kafka PMC, you can maintain your own page for such information and provide your personal comments on them. If the object is to provide information and help users to make decisions, it should help. Although you should do the SEO by yourself, if the information is somehow neutral and valuable, you can ask the @apachekafka Twitter (X) account to propagate it and provide a blog for Kafka blogs. This is the common way how third-party "evangelist" producing content and get it promoted. Best, tison. Matthias J. Sax 于2024年1月13日周六 07:35写道： François, thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I share the same concerns others raised already. I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also "worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also imagine that some companies offer their services only in some countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are looking for? Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly against it, but I just don't see much value either. -Matthias On 1/11/24 12:55 PM, Francois Papon wrote: Hi Justine, You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting, architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for my case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them). As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project because I really think that it can help users. As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page. Thanks, François On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote: Hey François, My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of their business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to submit a PR to be added. I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require Kafka having such a support page. Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton wrote: Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it. Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: Hi Justine, I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors that advertise their products in some of the company list in the "powered by" page. Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support for production stuff rather than searching in google. I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already exist in many ASF projects like: https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ https://karaf.apache.org/community.html As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production support is: - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafk
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Matthias, Thank you for your feedback, it make sense. My proposal was to help user finding support but as you said, may be this is not the right way to address it. regards, François On 13/01/2024 00:34, Matthias J. Sax wrote: François, thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I share the same concerns others raised already. I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also "worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also imagine that some companies offer their services only in some countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are looking for? Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly against it, but I just don't see much value either. -Matthias On 1/11/24 12:55 PM, Francois Papon wrote: Hi Justine, You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting, architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for my case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them). As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project because I really think that it can help users. As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page. Thanks, François On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote: Hey François, My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of their business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to submit a PR to be added. I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require Kafka having such a support page. Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton wrote: Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it. Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: Hi Justine, I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors that advertise their products in some of the company list in the "powered by" page. Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support for production stuff rather than searching in google. I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already exist in many ASF projects like: https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ https://karaf.apache.org/community.html As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production support is: - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafka.apache.org) - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the website because I didn't find it in the website => https://kafka.apache.org/contact) - Search in google for commercial support only I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. regards, François On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page for vendors to advertise their products and services. The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to advertise.
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
FWIW - even if it's rejected by the Kafka PMC, you can maintain your own page for such information and provide your personal comments on them. If the object is to provide information and help users to make decisions, it should help. Although you should do the SEO by yourself, if the information is somehow neutral and valuable, you can ask the @apachekafka Twitter (X) account to propagate it and provide a blog for Kafka blogs. This is the common way how third-party "evangelist" producing content and get it promoted. Best, tison. Matthias J. Sax 于2024年1月13日周六 07:35写道： > > François, > > thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's > necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I > share the same concerns others raised already. > > I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial > support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also > "worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become > long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka > services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of > entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are > looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary > drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also > imagine that some companies offer their services only in some > countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are > looking for? > > Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it > seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly > against it, but I just don't see much value either. > > > -Matthias > > On 1/11/24 12:55 PM, Francois Papon wrote: > > Hi Justine, > > > > You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting, > > architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said > > that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for my > > case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them). > > > > As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind > > of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project > > because I really think that it can help users. > > > > As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page. > > > > Thanks, > > > > François > > > > On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote: > >> Hey François, > >> > >> My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of their > >> business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to submit a > >> PR to be added. > >> > >> I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require > >> Kafka > >> having such a support page. > >> > >> Justine > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi François, > >>> > >>> Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of > >>> commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other > >>> projects > >>> have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all > >>> projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very > >>> convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by > >>> the > >>> PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official > >>> ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should > >>> align > >>> with it. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: > >>> > Hi Justine, > > I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors > that advertise their products in some of the company list in the > "powered by" page. > > Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support > for production stuff rather than searching in google. > > I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that > already > exist in many ASF projects like: > > https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ > https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html > https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ > https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ > > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support > >>> https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html > https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ > https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ > > https://karaf.apache.org/community.html > > As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production > support
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
François, thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I share the same concerns others raised already. I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also "worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also imagine that some companies offer their services only in some countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are looking for? Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly against it, but I just don't see much value either. -Matthias On 1/11/24 12:55 PM, Francois Papon wrote: Hi Justine, You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting, architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for my case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them). As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project because I really think that it can help users. As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page. Thanks, François On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote: Hey François, My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of their business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to submit a PR to be added. I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require Kafka having such a support page. Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton wrote: Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it. Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: Hi Justine, I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors that advertise their products in some of the company list in the "powered by" page. Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support for production stuff rather than searching in google. I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already exist in many ASF projects like: https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ https://karaf.apache.org/community.html As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production support is: - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafka.apache.org) - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the website because I didn't find it in the website => https://kafka.apache.org/contact) - Search in google for commercial support only I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. regards, François On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page for vendors to advertise their products and services. The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to advertise. I'm a little confused by In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on how your company uses Kafka
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Justine, You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting, architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for my case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them). As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project because I really think that it can help users. As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page. Thanks, François On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote: Hey François, My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of their business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to submit a PR to be added. I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require Kafka having such a support page. Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton wrote: Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it. Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: Hi Justine, I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors that advertise their products in some of the company list in the "powered by" page. Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support for production stuff rather than searching in google. I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already exist in many ASF projects like: https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ https://karaf.apache.org/community.html As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production support is: - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafka.apache.org) - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the website because I didn't find it in the website => https://kafka.apache.org/contact) - Search in google for commercial support only I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. regards, François On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page for vendors to advertise their products and services. The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to advertise. I'm a little confused by In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on how your company uses Kafka. I'm happy to hear other folks' opinions on this page as well. Thanks, Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:57 AM fpapon wrote: Hi, About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the "Powered by" page? https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product (Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website without any explanation (GoldmanSachs). So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right? "Want to appear on this page? Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your organization and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you." In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. regards, François On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote: I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go down the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their product, not to mention could be a huge security ri
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Chris, I never said that the Apache Kafka community "has to" provide this kind of page and it's not an official policy of the ASF. I just listed other projects to show that this is something that already exist so this is potentially something that could be good for the community of an ASF project. My proposal is just to help the project to growth and to help users to find production support because this is not the purpose of the ASF. If the PMC and members of the community are not agree and think this is a bad thing for the project, I'm ok with that and I will close my PR. regards, François On 11/01/2024 20:56, Chris Egerton wrote: Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it. Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: Hi Justine, I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors that advertise their products in some of the company list in the "powered by" page. Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support for production stuff rather than searching in google. I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already exist in many ASF projects like: https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ https://karaf.apache.org/community.html As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production support is: - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafka.apache.org) - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the website because I didn't find it in the website => https://kafka.apache.org/contact) - Search in google for commercial support only I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. regards, François On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page for vendors to advertise their products and services. The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to advertise. I'm a little confused by In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on how your company uses Kafka. I'm happy to hear other folks' opinions on this page as well. Thanks, Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:57 AM fpapon wrote: Hi, About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the "Powered by" page? https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product (Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website without any explanation (GoldmanSachs). So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right? "Want to appear on this page? Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your organization and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you." In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. regards, François On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote: I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go down the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice users. I would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling, such as cruise control. Divji brings up good question 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? I think the community would be a better service to have a more synchronous line of communic
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it. Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon wrote: > Hi Justine, > > I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors > that advertise their products in some of the company list in the > "powered by" page. > > Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support > for production stuff rather than searching in google. > > I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already > exist in many ASF projects like: > > https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ > https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html > https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ > https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support > https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html > https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ > https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ > > https://karaf.apache.org/community.html > > As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production > support is: > > - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafka.apache.org) > > - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the > website because I didn't find it in the website => > https://kafka.apache.org/contact) > > - Search in google for commercial support only > > I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get > support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. > > regards, > > François > > On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: > > I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page > for > > vendors to advertise their products and services. > > > > The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They > > serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. > > I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to > > advertise. > > > > I'm a little confused by > > > >> In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the > > "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. > > > > If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on how > > your company uses Kafka. > > > > I'm happy to hear other folks' opinions on this page as well. > > > > Thanks, > > Justine > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:57 AM fpapon wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the > >> "Powered by" page? > >> > >> https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by > >> > >> We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product > >> (Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can > >> also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website > >> without any explanation (GoldmanSachs). > >> > >> So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this > >> page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right? > >> > >> "Want to appear on this page? > >> Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your organization > >> and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you." > >> > >> In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the > >> "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> François > >> > >> > >> On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote: > >>> I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go > >> down > >>> the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their > >>> product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice > users. I > >>> would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling, > such > >> as > >>> cruise control. > >>> > >>> Divji brings up good question > >>> 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of > Apache > >>> Kafka? > >>> > >>> I think the community would be a better service to have a more > >> synchronous > >>> line of communication such as Slack/Discord and we call that out here. > It > >>> would be more inline with other major open source projects. > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Kenneth Eversole > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Divij Vaidya > > >>> wrote: > >>> > I don't see a need for this. What
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi Justine, I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors that advertise their products in some of the company list in the "powered by" page. Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support for production stuff rather than searching in google. I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already exist in many ASF projects like: https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ https://karaf.apache.org/community.html As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production support is: - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / d...@kafka.apache.org) - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the website because I didn't find it in the website => https://kafka.apache.org/contact) - Search in google for commercial support only I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. regards, François On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page for vendors to advertise their products and services. The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to advertise. I'm a little confused by In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on how your company uses Kafka. I'm happy to hear other folks' opinions on this page as well. Thanks, Justine On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:57 AM fpapon wrote: Hi, About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the "Powered by" page? https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product (Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website without any explanation (GoldmanSachs). So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right? "Want to appear on this page? Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your organization and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you." In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. regards, François On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote: I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go down the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice users. I would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling, such as cruise control. Divji brings up good question 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? I think the community would be a better service to have a more synchronous line of communication such as Slack/Discord and we call that out here. It would be more inline with other major open source projects. --- Kenneth Eversole On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Divij Vaidya wrote: I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this provide over what can be found via a quick google search? My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of listing vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications without adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being vendor neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible. So, my question to you is: 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? 2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we have to decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the llink redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might have to at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to the resources of the community. -- Divij Vaidya On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon wrote: Hi, After starting a first thread on this topic ( https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rht
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi, About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the "Powered by" page? https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product (Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website without any explanation (GoldmanSachs). So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right? "Want to appear on this page? Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your organization and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you." In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. regards, François On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote: I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go down the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice users. I would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling, such as cruise control. Divji brings up good question 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? I think the community would be a better service to have a more synchronous line of communication such as Slack/Discord and we call that out here. It would be more inline with other major open source projects. --- Kenneth Eversole On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Divij Vaidya wrote: I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this provide over what can be found via a quick google search? My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of listing vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications without adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being vendor neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible. So, my question to you is: 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? 2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we have to decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the llink redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might have to at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to the resources of the community. -- Divij Vaidya On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon wrote: Hi, After starting a first thread on this topic ( https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr), I would like to propose a PR: https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577 The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for sla, training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the community as, like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial support is provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the adoption and the growth of the project because the users need commercial support for production issues. If the community is agree about this idea and want to move forward, I just add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by providing a new PR to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply to this thread because it will be better to have several company at the first publication of the page. Just provide the company-name and a short description of the service offer around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and informational in nature and not be a marketing statement. regards, François -- -- François
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go down the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice users. I would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling, such as cruise control. Divji brings up good question 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? I think the community would be a better service to have a more synchronous line of communication such as Slack/Discord and we call that out here. It would be more inline with other major open source projects. --- Kenneth Eversole On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Divij Vaidya wrote: > I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this provide > over what can be found via a quick google search? > > My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of listing > vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications without > adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being vendor > neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible. > > So, my question to you is: > 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache > Kafka? > 2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we have to > decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of > accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the llink > redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might have to > at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to the > resources of the community. > > -- > Divij Vaidya > > > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > After starting a first thread on this topic ( > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr), I > > would like to propose a PR: > > > > https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577 > > > > The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for sla, > > training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the community as, > > like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial support is > > provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the adoption and > the > > growth of the project because the users > > need commercial support for production issues. > > > > If the community is agree about this idea and want to move forward, I > just > > add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by providing a new > PR > > to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply to > this > > thread because it will be better to have several company at the first > > publication of the page. > > > > Just provide the company-name and a short description of the service > offer > > around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and informational in > > nature and not be a marketing statement. > > > > regards, > > > > François > > > > > > >
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi, The purpose is not to mention or list vendor, it's not a page to list product based on Apache Kafka. The purpose is to list companies that offer support for production, training or consulting only on Apache Kafka. It's a common use case where users are looking for a commercial support and this is something that the ASF doesn't provide so it's fair for companies to propose offers to cover this use case. It's fair and help the adoption of the project, like we can see in a lot of ASF projects and I think it's better for a user to have a list on the website rather than searching in google. There is a mention in the text: "The information must be factual and informational in nature and not be a marketing statement. Statements that promote your products and services over other offerings on the page will not be tolerated and will be removed. Such marketing statements can be added to your own pages on your own site, but not here." About the "phishing page" it's about the committer to check that the PR to add a website is not a phishing and I'm not sure that their will be a lot of these kind of PR. regards, François On 10/01/2024 17:29, Divij Vaidya wrote: I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this provide over what can be found via a quick google search? My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of listing vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications without adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being vendor neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible. So, my question to you is: 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? 2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we have to decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the llink redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might have to at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to the resources of the community. -- Divij Vaidya On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon wrote: Hi, After starting a first thread on this topic ( https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr), I would like to propose a PR: https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577 The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for sla, training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the community as, like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial support is provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the adoption and the growth of the project because the users need commercial support for production issues. If the community is agree about this idea and want to move forward, I just add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by providing a new PR to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply to this thread because it will be better to have several company at the first publication of the page. Just provide the company-name and a short description of the service offer around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and informational in nature and not be a marketing statement. regards, François -- -- François
Re: [PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this provide over what can be found via a quick google search? My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of listing vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications without adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being vendor neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible. So, my question to you is: 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of Apache Kafka? 2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we have to decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the llink redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might have to at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to the resources of the community. -- Divij Vaidya On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon wrote: > Hi, > > After starting a first thread on this topic ( > https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr), I > would like to propose a PR: > > https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577 > > The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for sla, > training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the community as, > like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial support is > provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the adoption and the > growth of the project because the users > need commercial support for production issues. > > If the community is agree about this idea and want to move forward, I just > add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by providing a new PR > to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply to this > thread because it will be better to have several company at the first > publication of the page. > > Just provide the company-name and a short description of the service offer > around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and informational in > nature and not be a marketing statement. > > regards, > > François > > >
[PROPOSAL] Add commercial support page on website
Hi, After starting a first thread on this topic (https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr), I would like to propose a PR: https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577 The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for sla, training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the community as, like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial support is provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the adoption and the growth of the project because the users need commercial support for production issues. If the community is agree about this idea and want to move forward, I just add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by providing a new PR to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply to this thread because it will be better to have several company at the first publication of the page. Just provide the company-name and a short description of the service offer around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and informational in nature and not be a marketing statement. regards, François
