Re: NVIDIA Legacy drivers

[John Pilkington]

On 25/11/2021 17:46, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 11/25/21 3:08 AM, Tim via users wrote:

I don't think so, unless you're trying to be funny.  We don't have to
do any of this pallaver for other several other graphics chipsets,
audio chipsets, USB chipsets, WiFi, etc.  The system figures it out for
us.  It was one of the great features of Linux of an install often
"just working" without any user jiggery pokery.


Don't blame Linux for that, blame nVidia for not providing either 
drivers or the chipset's specs so that drivers can be written by OSS 
programmers.  If you must use nVidia but don't want to do what's needed 
to install the drivers, try Ubuntu because they automate the 
installation of the binary blob drivers.


I suppose I have to recognise that as a lone user my perspective will 
differ from that of sysadmins responsible for a whole zoo of systems. 
Although the RPMfusion packages don't offer automatic card recognition, 
my impression is that installation of a specific driver by dns is 
usually straightforward.  I have no 'special interest' in this.


John P
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Re: Message threading on this list

[Gordon Messmer]

On 11/25/21 13:46, John Pilkington wrote:


Thank you for that link.  I hadn't been aware of that possibility.  
But I was really thinking of the Hyperkitty display, which appears as 
the archive default.  Having a too-large local mailbox I don't often 
use it, and its multiple endpoints seemed less than ideal. 



In Hyperkitty: click the link that says "show replies by date." It's at 
the end of the first message.

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Re: Message threading on this list

[John Pilkington]

On 25/11/2021 19:38, Gordon Messmer wrote:

On 11/23/21 14:06, John Pilkington wrote:
I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival.  Threaded 
display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by 
Hyperkitty, doesn't do this



Right... Hyperkitty also shows messages in threaded mode, where replies 
are grouped in the list next to the message they are a reply *to*.  Both 
of those applications are behaving as intended.


In Thunderbird, you might prefer to "Sort By > Subject" and "Sort By > 
Group by sort".  Or (and perhaps more likely), you'd prefer Conversation 
View:


https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ 



Thank you for that link.  I hadn't been aware of that possibility.  But 
I was really thinking of the Hyperkitty display, which appears as the 
archive default.  Having a too-large local mailbox I don't often use it, 
and its multiple endpoints seemed less than ideal.

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Re: xrandr (X11), Wayland xrandr alternative

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/25/21 12:18, Slade Watkins wrote:
I'd love to use Fedora and migrate off of Ubuntu fully, since it meets 
my needs better, but I absolutely need to be able to run those commands 
automatically at startup. Just having trouble figuring that out.


Put those commands in a shell script and create a .desktop file for it. 
 Put the desktop file in .local/share/applications.  Then you can use 
the Gnome tweak tool to add it to the startup list or put the desktop 
directly in .config/autostart.

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Re: xrandr (X11), Wayland xrandr alternative

[Slade Watkins]

On Thu, 25 Nov 2021, Slade Watkins wrote:


On Thu, 25 Nov 2021, Joe Zeff wrote:

Add them to ~/.bashrc


Jeff,


*Joe. Sorry - some things got messed up working with my text editor. Not 
sure what happened there.


 -slade
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Re: xrandr (X11), Wayland xrandr alternative

[Slade Watkins]

On Thu, 25 Nov 2021, Joe Zeff wrote:

Add them to ~/.bashrc


Jeff,

My understanding is that ~/.bashrc runs before login, and not when GNOME 
is launched. I'm probably wrong but that's what some resources online are 
stating... I've also tried adding things into that file and it hasn't worked, which supports that theory.


Since Fedora separates GNOME on Wayland and GNOME on XOrg on the login 
screen, when selecting a DE, I need something akin to what Ubuntu does 
with the GNOME 'Startup Applications' app. Whether that's a GUI or 
something I do in Terminal.


I'm relatively "new" to GNU/Linux, per se. Been several years since I've 
actually touched it. I grew up on it but I've regularly used Windows/macOS 
since.


I guess what I'm saying is I need a lot more handholding, haha.

Thanks,
 -slade
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Re: stream TO airplay/sonos

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/25/21 08:35, SternData wrote:

I feel like I'm getting closer, but...

dnf install pulseaudio-module-zeroconf
Last metadata expiration check: 2:50:05 ago on Thu 25 Nov 2021 07:42:54 
AM CST.

Error:
  Problem: problem with installed package 
pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.40-1.fc35.x86_64
   - package pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.40-1.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio provided by pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64


Right.  You can only have one of pulseaudio or pipewire.  You could try 
adding the "--allowerasing" option.  The end result will be that you are 
switched back to using pulseaudio.

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Re: xrandr (X11), Wayland xrandr alternative

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/25/21 1:18 PM, Slade Watkins wrote:


If not, then I'm fine sticking with X11 for xrandr. I've been having 
trouble figuring out how to get my two xrandr commands to run at startup 
in GNOME 41.


Add them to ~/.bashrc
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xrandr (X11), Wayland xrandr alternative

[Slade Watkins]

Hey there,
Anyone know of an alternative to xrandr on Wayland that has proper Colorspace 
and Broadcast RGB (Full) support? I want to 
use Wayland (and get off of X.Org) for better trackpad gesture support but 
am out of luck due to not having something that works with it.


If not, then I'm fine sticking with X11 for xrandr. I've been having trouble 
figuring out how to get my two xrandr commands to run at startup in GNOME 41.
On Ubuntu, the distro I use on my desktop, there's just a 'Startup  
Applications' app that I can add those commands and my DE will run them when I 
log in.
Can't seem to find anything like that on Fedora (GNOME Tweaks won't work, since 
that doesn't allow me to specify the command).

If it helps, the two commands I configure to run at startup are:
$ xrandr --output HDMI-1 --set "Broadcast RGB" "Full"
$ xrandr --output HDMI-1 --set "Colorspace" "XVYCC_709"

These two commands fix my primary monitor so it displays correctly running 
off of my HDMI port. Otherwise black turns into a bright grey, and colors 
look washed out.


I'd love to use Fedora and migrate off of Ubuntu fully, since it meets my 
needs better, but I absolutely need to be able to run those commands 
automatically at startup. Just having trouble figuring that out.


Any help to lead me in the right direction is appreciated!

Thank you,
 -slade
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Re: Message threading on this list

[Gordon Messmer]

On 11/23/21 14:06, John Pilkington wrote:
I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival.  Threaded 
display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by 
Hyperkitty, doesn't do this



Right... Hyperkitty also shows messages in threaded mode, where replies 
are grouped in the list next to the message they are a reply *to*.  Both 
of those applications are behaving as intended.


In Thunderbird, you might prefer to "Sort By > Subject" and "Sort By > 
Group by sort".  Or (and perhaps more likely), you'd prefer Conversation 
View:


https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/
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Re: NVIDIA Legacy drivers

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/25/21 3:08 AM, Tim via users wrote:

I don't think so, unless you're trying to be funny.  We don't have to
do any of this pallaver for other several other graphics chipsets,
audio chipsets, USB chipsets, WiFi, etc.  The system figures it out for
us.  It was one of the great features of Linux of an install often
"just working" without any user jiggery pokery.


Don't blame Linux for that, blame nVidia for not providing either 
drivers or the chipset's specs so that drivers can be written by OSS 
programmers.  If you must use nVidia but don't want to do what's needed 
to install the drivers, try Ubuntu because they automate the 
installation of the binary blob drivers.

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Re: stream TO airplay/sonos

[SternData]

I feel like I'm getting closer, but...

dnf install pulseaudio-module-zeroconf
Last metadata expiration check: 2:50:05 ago on Thu 25 Nov 2021 07:42:54 
AM CST.

Error:
 Problem: problem with installed package 
pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.40-1.fc35.x86_64
  - package pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.40-1.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio provided by pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64
  - package pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.40-1.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio-daemon provided by pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64
  - package pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio-daemon provided by pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.40-1.fc35.x86_64
  - package pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.38-1.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio provided by pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64
  - package pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.38-1.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio-daemon provided by pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64
  - package pulseaudio-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64 conflicts with 
pulseaudio-daemon provided by pipewire-pulseaudio-0.3.38-1.fc35.x86_64
  - package pulseaudio-module-zeroconf-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64 requires 
libpulsecore-15.0.so()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed
  - package pulseaudio-module-zeroconf-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64 requires 
libprotocol-native.so()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed
  - package pulseaudio-module-zeroconf-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64 requires 
librtp.so()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed
  - package pulseaudio-module-zeroconf-15.0-2.fc35.x86_64 requires 
pulseaudio(x86-64) = 15.0-2.fc35, but none of the providers can be installed

  - conflicting requests
(try to add '--allowerasing' to command line to replace conflicting 
packages or '--skip-broken' to skip uninstallable packages)



On 11/24/21 1:55 PM, James Szinger wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:31:50 -0600
SternData  wrote:


Unfortunately, I can't find any "raop" support in the Fedora repos.
Thanks very much for getting me this far.


It is in pulseaudio-module-zeroconf.

Jim

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Re: OT: Thinkpad X1 carbon delays?

[Jonathan Billings]

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 08:06, Frederic Muller  wrote:
> 
>> 
> Thank you! Makes me feel like taking the risk then! Let's be positive right?

That was my attitude too!  “Oh, early Christmas present then!”  But it worked 
out. 


--
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Re: OT: Thinkpad X1 carbon delays?

[Frederic Muller]

On 11/25/21 19:30, Jonathan Billings wrote:

On Nov 25, 2021, at 03:57, Frederic Muller  wrote:

I am/was thinking to get a Fedora installed Thinkpad (would be my first Linux 
pre-installed) and the delay is... huge! I'm getting it from the US and see 3+ 
months, but can't buy it. I have a good friend willing to buy it on my behalf 
who tells me he sees 7+ months delay.

What's your experience with Lenovo US and the shipment delays?

I bought myself an X1 carbon earlier this May, and the shipping date was 
December!  But it changed to a few weeks after a couple days.

However, at my job we also get Lenovo laptops and I can confirm that time to 
ship is quite long.  It depends on what you included in the order, though.


Thank you! Makes me feel like taking the risk then! Let's be positive right?

:-)

Fred
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Re: NVIDIA Legacy drivers

[George N. White III]

On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 at 06:09, Tim via users 
wrote:

> Tim:
> >> See my prior email about "why should we have to do this, it's the
> >> computer."
> >>
> >> In all seriousness, if a distro wants people to use it, don't make
> >> them do deep forensics to figure out how to install drivers.  The
> >> computer should be doing this analysis for you.
>
>
> John Pilkington:
> > I think you misunderstand the way open source works.
>
> I don't think so, unless you're trying to be funny.  We don't have to
> do any of this pallaver for other several other graphics chipsets,
> audio chipsets, USB chipsets, WiFi, etc.  The system figures it out for
> us.  It was one of the great features of Linux of an install often
> "just working" without any user jiggery pokery.
>

Many of the chipsets you mention have documentation, including
source code for an example driver.  In addition, many similar devices
all use the same chips, so one linux user can write a driver that
supports many devices.   There is still work to maintain the USB
product database, and particular devices can require passing some
extra parameters to the driver, but that is all manageable..  All that
is still far less effort than the reverse engineering required to provide
Nvidia drivers, and the result (nouveau) is high maintenance and has
limited functionality, but does support many use cases (mine included).

Ultimately, what features you get in linux depends either on hobbyist
level effort or commercial enterprises.  The latter are mainly interested
in large scale bitcoin mining and data centre use cases, so desktop
graphics work that is too complex for hobbyists is not being done.
In large enterprises, Microsoft is pushing  to replace linux workstations
with Windows+WSL, which takes advantage of Windows hardware
support.  This makes Windows a linux boot loader with access to
enterprise email and training videos.

Google has done a lot of interesting work with their android linux
ecosystem -- using hardware abstraction layers and testing
frameworks to make it easier for hardware vendors to write
drivers.  In the future we may see some android/linux hybrid
entering the workstation market.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: OT: Thinkpad X1 carbon delays?

[Jonathan Billings]

On Nov 25, 2021, at 03:57, Frederic Muller  wrote:
> 
> I am/was thinking to get a Fedora installed Thinkpad (would be my first Linux 
> pre-installed) and the delay is... huge! I'm getting it from the US and see 
> 3+ months, but can't buy it. I have a good friend willing to buy it on my 
> behalf who tells me he sees 7+ months delay.
> 
> What's your experience with Lenovo US and the shipment delays?

I bought myself an X1 carbon earlier this May, and the shipping date was 
December!  But it changed to a few weeks after a couple days.

However, at my job we also get Lenovo laptops and I can confirm that time to 
ship is quite long.  It depends on what you included in the order, though.  

—
Jonathan Billings
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F35 GNOME system display on some apps

[Frederic Muller]

Hi!

I freshly install F35 and Hexchat had a very boxy interface (like 
default GNONE 2.0. I saw it was an issue with Hexchat and would be fix 
at some point.


I just ran Gimp for the first time, started to customize the theme to my 
liking and chosing the system theme I have this same 2D boxy look from 
the 80's (** joke **).



So has anyone similar issue.. and eventually a fix?

Thank you.

Fred
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Re: Message threading on this list

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2021-11-25 at 14:10 +1030, Tim via users wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 11:18 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I prefer Evolution to TBird. It lets you fall back to threading by
> > Subject if the headers aren't present. I do that and don't see any
> > threading issues.
> > 
> > You can also ignore a thread or subthread.
> 
> I've never seen a mail client make ignoring threads as easy as Forte
> Agent did some 20 years ago.  Just press the I hotkey, and the
> current
> message and all its siblings (now and forever), are marked to be
> ignored (then they're either dimmed or hidden, according to your own
> preferences).  But other responses in the thread are unaffected.
> 
> I did like how Agent worked, ignoring a thread did not erroneously
> mark
> it as read.  To me, read means I've read it.  When "ignore" is
> separate
> from "read" I can find unread messages if I need to.  It had nice
> features for hiding old messages without deleting them, to unclutter
> your display (again without erroneously marking them as read).  And
> for
> purging even older messages from your cache, if you wanted to.  And
> it
> was the only client I ever saw that could rewrap quotes, and quotes
> of
> quotes, without mangling them.

One other thing I like about Evolution (it was my own suggestion,
 :-): you can point at a message and show the entire
thread its in, showing both read and unread messages and hiding
everything outside it. Slightly inspired by the "focus" concept in
Emacs.

poc
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Re: NVIDIA Legacy drivers

[John Pilkington]

On 25/11/2021 10:08, Tim via users wrote:

Tim:

See my prior email about "why should we have to do this, it's the
computer."

In all seriousness, if a distro wants people to use it, don't make
them do deep forensics to figure out how to install drivers.  The
computer should be doing this analysis for you.



John Pilkington:

I think you misunderstand the way open source works.


I don't think so, unless you're trying to be funny.  We don't have to
do any of this pallaver for other several other graphics chipsets,
audio chipsets, USB chipsets, WiFi, etc.  The system figures it out for
us.  It was one of the great features of Linux of an install often
"just working" without any user jiggery pokery.



That's obviously desirable. But *someone* needs to do the work to make 
it happen.  Who?  For what reward?  If you want to use a card that will 
cost you multi$$,  it just may be worth Reading the Manual - once.

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Re: NVIDIA Legacy drivers

[Tim via users]

Tim:
>> See my prior email about "why should we have to do this, it's the
>> computer."
>>
>> In all seriousness, if a distro wants people to use it, don't make
>> them do deep forensics to figure out how to install drivers.  The
>> computer should be doing this analysis for you.


John Pilkington:
> I think you misunderstand the way open source works.

I don't think so, unless you're trying to be funny.  We don't have to
do any of this pallaver for other several other graphics chipsets,
audio chipsets, USB chipsets, WiFi, etc.  The system figures it out for
us.  It was one of the great features of Linux of an install often
"just working" without any user jiggery pokery.

-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1160.45.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Oct 13 17:20:51 UTC 2021 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
 
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Re: NVIDIA Legacy drivers

[John Pilkington]

On 25/11/2021 03:31, Tim via users wrote:

On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 20:11 +, John Pilkington wrote:

NVIDIA has several driver series, each of which has different
hardware support. To determine which driver you need to install,
you'll first need to find your graphics card model.


See my prior email about "why should we have to do this, it's the
computer."

In all seriousness, if a distro wants people to use it, don't make them
do deep forensics to figure out how to install drivers.  The computer
should be doing this analysis for you.
  


I think you misunderstand the way open source works.
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OT: Thinkpad X1 carbon delays?

[Frederic Muller]

Hi!

I am/was thinking to get a Fedora installed Thinkpad (would be my first 
Linux pre-installed) and the delay is... huge! I'm getting it from the 
US and see 3+ months, but can't buy it. I have a good friend willing to 
buy it on my behalf who tells me he sees 7+ months delay.


What's your experience with Lenovo US and the shipment delays?

Thank you.

Fred
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Re: webcam

[Patrick Dupre]

Hello,

 

Thank to evey body for your help.

 

I finally works. It seems that a small things excaped to me.

I do know know, why after 2 attemps I did not get the /dev/video*

At the third attempt, it just worked properly.
 

===
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
Laboratoire interdisciplinaire Carnot de Bourgogne
9 Avenue Alain Savary, BP 47870, 21078 DIJON Cedex FRANCE
Tel: +33 (0)380395988 | | Room# D114A
===

 
 

Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 11:12 PM
From: "Patrick Dupre" 
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: webcam



v4l2-ctl --list-devices
Cannot open device /dev/video0, exiting.
 

It looks like that I cannot turn the camera on (it is an internal camera).

fn+f6 does not do any thing.

The worst is that this camera has been workig in the past!

 

===
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
Laboratoire interdisciplinaire Carnot de Bourgogne
9 Avenue Alain Savary, BP 47870, 21078 DIJON Cedex FRANCE
Tel: +33 (0)380395988 | | Room# D114A
===

 
 

Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 10:42 PM
From: "John Westerdale" 
To: rogerhef...@gmail.com
Cc: "Community support for Fedora users" 
Subject: Re: webcam



Here is a traditional favorite for enumerating Video devices:

 

[jwesterd@jwesterd-f33 Citrix]$ v4l2-ctl --list-devices

Live! Cam Sync 1080p: Live! Cam (usb-:00:14.0-2.4):
/dev/video2
/dev/video3

Integrated Camera: Integrated C (usb-:00:14.0-8):
/dev/video0
/dev/video1

 

[jwesterd@jwesterd-f33]$ rpm -qf /usr/bin/v4l2-ctl
v4l-utils-1.20.0-1.fc33.x86_64

 






John Westerdale 

Sr Container Consultant  RHCSA-8.2

Red Hat NYC Office/WFH 

john.westerd...@redhat.com   

M: 201-376-9993     IM: jwesterd   He / Him / His

Envision the future, tolerate the present



	
		
			
		
	


I respect your Life-Work balance. 

No need to respond immediately if you receive this outside your normal working hours.







 


On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 3:09 PM Roger Heflin  wrote:

I don't see a camera in lsusb.

So bad usb cable, bad usb socket, bad usb camera, or kernel issue
causing the driver to not allocate memory (or some other resource) and
finish loading.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 1:34 PM Patrick Dupre  wrote:
>
> Here is reg output of hwinfo |grep cam
>
>  E: KEYBOARD_KEY_ee=camera
>
> lspci
> 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v5/E3-1500 v5/6th Gen Core Processor Host Bridge/DRAM Registers (rev 07)
> 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 6th-10th Gen Core Processor PCIe Controller (x16) (rev 07)
> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 530 (rev 06)
> 00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family USB 3.0 xHCI Controller (rev 31)
> 00:14.2 Signal processing controller: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family Thermal Subsystem (rev 31)
> 00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family MEI Controller #1 (rev 31)
> 00:17.0 SATA controller: Intel Corporation HM170/QM170 Chipset SATA Controller [AHCI Mode] (rev 31)
> 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #1 (rev f1)
> 00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #4 (rev f1)
> 00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #5 (rev f1)
> 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation HM170 Chipset LPC/eSPI Controller (rev 31)
> 00:1f.2 Memory controller: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family Power Management Controller (rev 31)
> 00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family HD Audio Controller (rev 31)
> 00:1f.4 SMBus: Intel Corporation 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family SMBus (rev 31)
> 01:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM107M [GeForce GTX 960M] (rev a2)
> 02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 3165 (rev 81)
> 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Killer E2400 Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 10)
> 04:00.0 USB controller: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1142 USB 3.1 Host Controller
>
> susb
> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 30fa:0300  USB OPTICAL MOUSE
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 1770:ff00 MSI steel series rgb keyboard
> Bus 001 Device 005: ID 0bda:0129 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTS5129 Card Reader Controller
> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 8087:0a2a Intel Corp. Bluetooth wireless interface
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
>
>
>