Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
> If there is a real interest in my participation I would be glad to join. But ... > a consensus. So do you actually see any chances of a solution for the > described problem? See, if not, it makes no sense that I add another thread > on the dev list. I think there is genuine interest in pursuing POM5 which would help to solve this issue you're talking about (and perhaps add the notion of Platforms etc) but it is going to be a while before it becomes a reality. Right now Maven Dev is working to move from SVN to Git but once that is done, I think the POM5 conversation can be entertained more seriously. Did you ever try the configuration in that blog post you were linked to earlier in this thread? I think it would solve your problem in the short term. Wayne - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
If there is a real interest in my participation I would be glad to join. But to tell it frankly, I enjoyed lots of forums and lists where people talked and talked and talked (I am an EG member and know how long companies can talk just to not being forced to change one code line) and did never come to a consensus. So do you actually see any chances of a solution for the described problem? See, if not, it makes no sense that I add another thread on the dev list. > -Original Message- > From: Benson Margulies [mailto:bimargul...@gmail.com] > Sent: Dienstag, 25. September 2012 20:09 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > Markus, > > If you want to join in on the fun of the development community, please > join us on the dev list. As you've heard on this thread, your > particular concern smacks into a messy conundrum about our desire to > avoid breaking other people's tools that read poms -- no matter how > poorly coded. However, there is a design in progress, it needs more > refinement, and mostly it will need people to actually code it. > > --benson > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
Strub, thank you for your comments. Unfortunately (as I already wrote two times before) this thread started by the exact problem of overloading a JRE class (Resource annotation) by javaee6.jar... so it just don't work (otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread). Anyway, thanks for chiming in! :-) Regards Markus > -Original Message- > From: Mark Struberg [mailto:strub...@yahoo.de] > Sent: Dienstag, 25. September 2012 21:48 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > I did not read through the whole thread, so maybe I missed (sorry for > that). > > Afaik maven plugins use a different ClassLoader hierarchy than you > might expect. > Most frameworks use ParentClassLoaderFirst, but maven afaik uses > ClientClassLoaderFirst. > > Which means it's perfectly fine to to put a javax.* dependency in your > plugin classpath. The only thing which is not allowed is to overwrite > native SE stuff. > > LieGrue, > strub > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Benson Margulies > > To: Maven Users List > > Cc: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:08 PM > > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > > > Markus, > > > > If you want to join in on the fun of the development community, > please > > join us on the dev list. As you've heard on this thread, your > > particular concern smacks into a messy conundrum about our desire to > > avoid breaking other people's tools that read poms -- no matter how > > poorly coded. However, there is a design in progress, it needs more > > refinement, and mostly it will need people to actually code it. > > > > --benson > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
I did not read through the whole thread, so maybe I missed (sorry for that). Afaik maven plugins use a different ClassLoader hierarchy than you might expect. Most frameworks use ParentClassLoaderFirst, but maven afaik uses ClientClassLoaderFirst. Which means it's perfectly fine to to put a javax.* dependency in your plugin classpath. The only thing which is not allowed is to overwrite native SE stuff. LieGrue, strub - Original Message - > From: Benson Margulies > To: Maven Users List > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:08 PM > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > Markus, > > If you want to join in on the fun of the development community, please > join us on the dev list. As you've heard on this thread, your > particular concern smacks into a messy conundrum about our desire to > avoid breaking other people's tools that read poms -- no matter how > poorly coded. However, there is a design in progress, it needs more > refinement, and mostly it will need people to actually code it. > > --benson > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
Markus, If you want to join in on the fun of the development community, please join us on the dev list. As you've heard on this thread, your particular concern smacks into a messy conundrum about our desire to avoid breaking other people's tools that read poms -- no matter how poorly coded. However, there is a design in progress, it needs more refinement, and mostly it will need people to actually code it. --benson - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
> > I did never suggest to modify the POM and said no word about any > > future form of the POM, so I skip your comments about that and right > > go on with the idea of a Platform: > > > >> I like some of your idea about the concept of a platform but this is > >> not as trivial as you think. > >> > >> There is the issue of building with JDK5 an artifact to be run on > >> JDK5 or > >> JDK6 > > The idea of having a Platform interface actually solves exactly that > > problem, since the JDK5 platform will tell how to build on JDK5, > while > > the > > JDK6 platform will tell how to build on JDK6. > Are you sure that you mean build? What are you building that is > different? Yes, I mean *build*. My source code needs the "@Resource(lookup = ...)" field, which comes with Java EE 6, while Java SE 6 only has "@Resource" without the field "lookup". So my code simply does not build, as long as javaee6.jar ist a simple dependency in the user classpath. I need to have it in the bootstrap classpath. This is why this thread is called "How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?" and the original problem that started it. > It still sounds like an installation issue and "Package" is what an > installer builder creates. If you follow the thread to the start you will see that it has nothing to do with packaging. > Maven will build the modules that you need to create the package of > jars that gets installed. ...and how does that solve the case described by me now for the second time...? ;-) Regards Markus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
in) into one single artifact which forms the "JRE 6 Platform" (including some general "Platform" interface common not only for the JREs but for all kinds of "Platforms" like .NET and Flash etc.). Using this interface, Maven could resolve the question "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in the user classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the platform (using the new interface) what the right classpath is, and the platform would answer with either 'User' or 'System' (interface-defined enum constants for example). So the JRE 5 might answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer with 'System' for the same dependency! No need for _any_ configuration in the POM! No need for _any_ POM schema change! Maven could simply set up the root classpath fully automatically that way! Just like one day Eclipse learned the difference between "JRE" and the general term "Platform", Maven 4 has to learn this concept, too. Maybe I should file a RFE for this? Regards Markus -Original Message- From: Stephen Connolly [mailto:stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com] Sent: Samstag, 22. September 2012 00:09 To: Maven Users List Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? 1. Maven is not just about java (though very java focused I admit) endorsed does not make sense outside of java 2. Whether a dependency needs to be endorsed or not depends on the jvm version it targets... A dep can be fine until it gets added to the jvm spec. 3. It should probably more correctly be endorsed 4. Where would you package an endorsed dependency within a .war or .ear file? And don't get me started on the fact that to change this requires changing the Pom format (which potentially could break ivy, gradle, leinengen, sbt, etc) Not an easy problem to solve, but I feel your pain On Friday, 21 September 2012, Markus KARG wrote: Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in fact I wonder why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have built-in support for endorsed dependencies? I mean, in the end a different compiler might break the solution, so it would be a good idea if a dependency could simply marked as true. -Original Message- From: Claves Do Amaral [mailto:claves.doama...@igmarkets.com ] Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 10:30 To: Maven Users List Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide endorsed libraries at runtime. I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may work. Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens- plugins.html Claves -Original Message- From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de ] Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 To: users@maven.apache.org Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource annotation). But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able to load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar instead. How can I configure this in the POM? -- Ron Wheeler President Artifact Software Inc email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com skype: ronaldmwheeler phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
. Using this interface, Maven could resolve the > > question "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in > > the user classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the > > platform (using the new interface) what the right classpath is, and > > the platform would answer with either 'User' or 'System' > > (interface-defined enum constants for example). So the JRE 5 might > > answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer with 'System' for the > same > > dependency! No need for _any_ configuration in the POM! No need for > > _any_ POM schema change! Maven could simply set up the root classpath > > fully automatically that way! > > > > Just like one day Eclipse learned the difference between "JRE" and > the > > general term "Platform", Maven 4 has to learn this concept, too. > > > > Maybe I should file a RFE for this? > > > > Regards > > Markus > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Stephen Connolly [mailto:stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Samstag, 22. September 2012 00:09 > > > To: Maven Users List > > > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE > jre.jar? > > > > > > 1. Maven is not just about java (though very java focused I admit) > > > endorsed does not make sense outside of java 2. Whether a > dependency > > > needs to be endorsed or not depends on the jvm version it > targets... > > > A dep can be fine until it gets added to the jvm spec. > > > 3. It should probably more correctly be endorsed 4. > > > Where would you package an endorsed dependency within a .war or > .ear > > > file? > > > > > > And don't get me started on the fact that to change this requires > > > changing the Pom format (which potentially could break ivy, gradle, > > > leinengen, sbt, > > > etc) > > > > > > Not an easy problem to solve, but I feel your pain > > > > > > On Friday, 21 September 2012, Markus KARG wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in > > > > fact I wonder why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have > > > > built-in support for endorsed dependencies? I mean, in the end a > > > > different compiler might break the solution, so it would be a > good > > > > idea if a dependency could simply marked as > true. > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: Claves Do Amaral > > > > > [mailto:claves.doama...@igmarkets.com > > > > ] > > > > > Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 10:30 > > > > > To: Maven Users List > > > > > Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE > > > jre.jar? > > > > > > > > > > If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide > > > > > endorsed libraries at runtime. > > > > > I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may > > > work. > > > > > Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution > > > > > > > > > > http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens- > > > > > plugins.html > > > > > > > > > > Claves > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de ] > > > > > Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 > > > > > To: users@maven.apache.org > > > > > Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE > jre.jar? > > > > > > > > > > I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer > versions > > > for > > > > > classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource > > > annotation). > > > > > But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be > > > able > > > > > to load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar > > > > > instead. How can I configure this in the POM? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The information contained in this email is strictly > confidential > > > and > > > > > for the use of the addressee only, unless otherwise indicated. > > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, > copy, > > > > > use > > > or > > > > > disclose to others this message or any attachment. Please also > > > > > notify the sender by replying to this email or by telephone > (+44 > > > > > (0)20 7896 > > > > > 0011) and then delete the email and any copies of it. Opinions, > > > > > conclusions (etc.) that do not relate to the official business > > > > > of this company shall be understood as neither given nor > > > > > endorsed by it. IG is a trading name of IG Markets Limited, a > > > > > company > > > registered > > > > > in England and Wales under number 04008957. VAT registration > > > > > number > > > 761 2978 07. > > > > > Registered Office: Cannon Bridge House, 25 Dowgate Hill, London > > > EC4R > > > > > 2YA. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services > Authority. > > > > > FSA Register number 195355. > > > > > > > > > > --- > - > > > > > --- > > > - > > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > > > users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > > > users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > - > > > > --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > > users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
at all). The fact that a library was in user space in JRE 5 but is in system space in JRE 6 does not have any influence on this project's use, hence, of the scope. So there is no need for another scope. * Endorsed libraries are _not_ a problem of one particular dependent project, but an inherent decision of the platform itself (_every_ dependent project on this particular platform (JRE 6 in this example) suffer from the _same_ pain, as _the platform_ decides that this is endorsed, but neither the dependent project nor the dependency itself). So it is nothing to get configured in neither the dependent POM nor in the dependency's POM, but it is solely a third place that makes up the endorsed-ness: The POM of the "platform" (here: the POM of a hypthetical artifact that makes up what we know as "JRE 6"). Which simply does not exist in Maven 3 AFAIK. * As a result, it is _not_ a particular problem of the compiler, since _all_ compilers (jikes, javac, eclipse) need to support endorsed libraries. As all compilers might have different configuration switches, and selection of the particular compiler might be out of scope of the POM (i. e. defined in company pom for example), it simply is no sophisticated solution to provide particular javac options inside of each single dependent POM. * So as AFAIK Maven 3 does not yet know the concept of "Platform" modules, the solution obviously is to add this new concept to Maven 4: Strip the knowledge about the different platforms (hence, JREs) from the lots of plugins (like the compiler-plugin or the jar-plugin) into one single artifact which forms the "JRE 6 Platform" (including some general "Platform" interface common not only for the JREs but for all kinds of "Platforms" like .NET and Flash etc.). Using this interface, Maven could resolve the question "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in the user classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the platform (using the new interface) what the right classpath is, and the platform would answer with either 'User' or 'System' (interface-defined enum constants for example). So the JRE 5 might answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer with 'System' for the same dependency! No need for _any_ configuration in the POM! No need for _any_ POM schema change! Maven could simply set up the root classpath fully automatically that way! Just like one day Eclipse learned the difference between "JRE" and the general term "Platform", Maven 4 has to learn this concept, too. Maybe I should file a RFE for this? Regards Markus -Original Message- From: Stephen Connolly [mailto:stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com] Sent: Samstag, 22. September 2012 00:09 To: Maven Users List Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? 1. Maven is not just about java (though very java focused I admit) endorsed does not make sense outside of java 2. Whether a dependency needs to be endorsed or not depends on the jvm version it targets... A dep can be fine until it gets added to the jvm spec. 3. It should probably more correctly be endorsed 4. Where would you package an endorsed dependency within a .war or .ear file? And don't get me started on the fact that to change this requires changing the Pom format (which potentially could break ivy, gradle, leinengen, sbt, etc) Not an easy problem to solve, but I feel your pain On Friday, 21 September 2012, Markus KARG wrote: Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in fact I wonder why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have built-in support for endorsed dependencies? I mean, in the end a different compiler might break the solution, so it would be a good idea if a dependency could simply marked as true. -Original Message- From: Claves Do Amaral [mailto:claves.doama...@igmarkets.com ] Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 10:30 To: Maven Users List Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide endorsed libraries at runtime. I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may work. Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens- plugins.html Claves -Original Message- From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de ] Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 To: users@maven.apache.org Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource annotation). But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able to load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar instead. How can I configure this in the POM? The information contained in this email is strictly confide
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
e. So there is no > need > >> for another scope. > >> > >> * Endorsed libraries are _not_ a problem of one particular dependent > >> project, but an inherent decision of the platform itself (_every_ > dependent > >> project on this particular platform (JRE 6 in this example) suffer from > the > >> _same_ pain, as _the platform_ decides that this is endorsed, but > neither > >> the dependent project nor the dependency itself). So it is nothing to > get > >> configured in neither the dependent POM nor in the dependency's POM, > but it > >> is solely a third place that makes up the endorsed-ness: The POM of the > >> "platform" (here: the POM of a hypthetical artifact that makes up what > we > >> know as "JRE 6"). Which simply does not exist in Maven 3 AFAIK. > >> > >> * As a result, it is _not_ a particular problem of the compiler, since > >> _all_ > >> compilers (jikes, javac, eclipse) need to support endorsed libraries. As > >> all > >> compilers might have different configuration switches, and selection of > the > >> particular compiler might be out of scope of the POM (i. e. defined in > >> company pom for example), it simply is no sophisticated solution to > provide > >> particular javac options inside of each single dependent POM. > >> > >> * So as AFAIK Maven 3 does not yet know the concept of "Platform" > modules, > >> the solution obviously is to add this new concept to Maven 4: Strip the > >> knowledge about the different platforms (hence, JREs) from the lots of > >> plugins (like the compiler-plugin or the jar-plugin) into one single > >> artifact which forms the "JRE 6 Platform" (including some general > >> "Platform" > >> interface common not only for the JREs but for all kinds of "Platforms" > >> like > >> .NET and Flash etc.). Using this interface, Maven could resolve the > >> question > >> "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in the user > >> classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the platform (using > >> the > >> new interface) what the right classpath is, and the platform would > answer > >> with either 'User' or 'System' (interface-defined enum constants for > >> example). So the JRE 5 might answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer > >> with 'System' for the same dependency! No need for _any_ configuration > in > >> the POM! No need for _any_ POM schema change! Maven could simply set up > the > >> root classpath fully automatically that way! > >> > >> Just like one day Eclipse learned the difference between "JRE" and the > >> general term "Platform", Maven 4 has to learn this concept, too. > >> > >> Maybe I should file a RFE for this? > >> > >> Regards > >> Markus > >> > >> > -Original Message- > >> > From: Stephen Connolly [mailto:stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com] > >> > Sent: Samstag, 22. September 2012 00:09 > >> > To: Maven Users List > >> > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > >> > > >> > 1. Maven is not just about java (though very java focused I admit) > >> > endorsed does not make sense outside of java 2. Whether a dependency > >> > needs to be endorsed or not depends on the jvm version it targets... A > >> > dep can be fine until it gets added to the jvm spec. > >> > 3. It should probably more correctly be endorsed 4. > >> > Where would you package an endorsed dependency within a .war or .ear > >> > file? > >> > > >> > And don't get me started on the fact that to change this requires > >> > changing the Pom format (which potentially could break ivy, gradle, > >> > leinengen, sbt, > >> > etc) > >> > > >> > Not an easy problem to solve, but I feel your pain > >> > > >> > On Friday, 21 September 2012, Markus KARG wrote: > >> > > >> > > Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in fact > I > >> > > wonder why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have built-in > support > >> > > for endorsed dependencies? I mean, in the end a different compiler > >> > > might break the solution, so it would be a good idea if a dependency > >
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
om for example), it simply is no sophisticated solution to provide >> particular javac options inside of each single dependent POM. >> >> * So as AFAIK Maven 3 does not yet know the concept of "Platform" modules, >> the solution obviously is to add this new concept to Maven 4: Strip the >> knowledge about the different platforms (hence, JREs) from the lots of >> plugins (like the compiler-plugin or the jar-plugin) into one single >> artifact which forms the "JRE 6 Platform" (including some general >> "Platform" >> interface common not only for the JREs but for all kinds of "Platforms" >> like >> .NET and Flash etc.). Using this interface, Maven could resolve the >> question >> "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in the user >> classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the platform (using >> the >> new interface) what the right classpath is, and the platform would answer >> with either 'User' or 'System' (interface-defined enum constants for >> example). So the JRE 5 might answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer >> with 'System' for the same dependency! No need for _any_ configuration in >> the POM! No need for _any_ POM schema change! Maven could simply set up the >> root classpath fully automatically that way! >> >> Just like one day Eclipse learned the difference between "JRE" and the >> general term "Platform", Maven 4 has to learn this concept, too. >> >> Maybe I should file a RFE for this? >> >> Regards >> Markus >> >> > -Original Message- >> > From: Stephen Connolly [mailto:stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com] >> > Sent: Samstag, 22. September 2012 00:09 >> > To: Maven Users List >> > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? >> > >> > 1. Maven is not just about java (though very java focused I admit) >> > endorsed does not make sense outside of java 2. Whether a dependency >> > needs to be endorsed or not depends on the jvm version it targets... A >> > dep can be fine until it gets added to the jvm spec. >> > 3. It should probably more correctly be endorsed 4. >> > Where would you package an endorsed dependency within a .war or .ear >> > file? >> > >> > And don't get me started on the fact that to change this requires >> > changing the Pom format (which potentially could break ivy, gradle, >> > leinengen, sbt, >> > etc) >> > >> > Not an easy problem to solve, but I feel your pain >> > >> > On Friday, 21 September 2012, Markus KARG wrote: >> > >> > > Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in fact I >> > > wonder why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have built-in support >> > > for endorsed dependencies? I mean, in the end a different compiler >> > > might break the solution, so it would be a good idea if a dependency >> > > could simply marked as true. >> > > >> > > > -Original Message- >> > > > From: Claves Do Amaral >> > > > [mailto:claves.doama...@igmarkets.com >> > > ] >> > > > Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 10:30 >> > > > To: Maven Users List >> > > > Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE >> > jre.jar? >> > > > >> > > > If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide >> > > > endorsed libraries at runtime. >> > > > I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may >> > work. >> > > > Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution >> > > > >> > > > http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens- >> > > > plugins.html >> > > > >> > > > Claves >> > > > >> > > > -Original Message- >> > > > From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de ] >> > > > Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 >> > > > To: users@maven.apache.org >> > > > Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? >> > > > >> > > > I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions >> > for >> > > > classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource >> > annotation). >> > > > But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be >> > able >> > > > to load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar >> > > > instead. How can I configure this in the POM? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > The information contained in this email is strictly confidential >> > and >> > > > for the use of the addressee only, unless otherwise indicated. If >> > > > you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use >> > or >> > > > disclose to others this message or any attachment. Please also >> > > > notify the sender by replying to this email or by telephone (+44 >> > > > (0)20 7896 >> > > > 0011) and then delete the email and any copies of it. Opinions, >> > > > conclusions (etc.) that do not relate to the official business of >> > > > this company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by >> > > > it. IG is a trading name of IG Markets Limited, a company >> > registered >> > > > in England and Wales under number 04008957. VAT registration number >> > 761 2978 07. >> > > > Registered Office: Cannon Bridge House, 25 Dowgate Hill, London >> > EC4R >> > > > 2YA. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. >> > > > FSA Register number 195355. >> > > > >> > > > --- >> > - >> > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: >> > > > users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: >> > > > users-h...@maven.apache.org >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > - >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: >> > > users-h...@maven.apache.org >> > > >> > > >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
10:19, Markus KARG wrote: > Stephen, > > if we would never address problems that seem hard to fix at first sight, > then the Maven core would never evolve and other system would take over > some > day. So a discussion like this one is essential for the future of this > tool. > There are too much things left open due to concerns like these (e. g. see > the long lasting discussion about SNAPSHOTs being included in version > ranges), so we should start solving them step by step instead of flinching > due to virtual efforts. :-) > > So let me chime in here and start a discussion by throwing a proposal in > the > ring: Introduction of the "Platform" interface in Maven 4! > > Possibly the best way to resolve the endorsed dependency problem mid-term > would be to understand how it comes to the endorsed-ness: Obviously this is > because someone in an official position (like the JCP) decides that > something that was a "normal" dependency before now is "pre-packaged" with > the official runtime package (like the JRE). In the end, that means, that > Maven has to know about that decision to be able to deal with its effects. > > Looking it this way I have to contradict in part: > > * This is _not_ a Java-only problem, as potentially there could be endorsed > libraries in other runtime systems, too, like .NET or Flash, or even Win32 > (for example, I can vividly remember that "GDI+" first was a custom DLL > that > everyone had to ship with his own application EXE, but later it was part of > the official Windows SDK, pre-packaged with the operating system; same with > newer ODBC releases BTW). While I do not say that those named examples in > fact do have an endorsement facility (obvisouly besides Win32 where I named > two examples), it could be possible that _some_ other Maven-supported > platform _will_ have such a facility now or in future. So as it is not a > Java-only problem, it makes sense to have a _common_ solution. > > * It is _not_ a problem of scope, since scope is to be defined solely by > the > view of the using dependent project always. If the dependent project needs > this library for test only, scope still is 'test' (e. g. a Win32 program > might need a particular release of ODBC for an integration test, while at > runtime it possibly might never use ODBC at all). The fact that a library > was in user space in JRE 5 but is in system space in JRE 6 does not have > any > influence on this project's use, hence, of the scope. So there is no need > for another scope. > > * Endorsed libraries are _not_ a problem of one particular dependent > project, but an inherent decision of the platform itself (_every_ dependent > project on this particular platform (JRE 6 in this example) suffer from the > _same_ pain, as _the platform_ decides that this is endorsed, but neither > the dependent project nor the dependency itself). So it is nothing to get > configured in neither the dependent POM nor in the dependency's POM, but it > is solely a third place that makes up the endorsed-ness: The POM of the > "platform" (here: the POM of a hypthetical artifact that makes up what we > know as "JRE 6"). Which simply does not exist in Maven 3 AFAIK. > > * As a result, it is _not_ a particular problem of the compiler, since > _all_ > compilers (jikes, javac, eclipse) need to support endorsed libraries. As > all > compilers might have different configuration switches, and selection of the > particular compiler might be out of scope of the POM (i. e. defined in > company pom for example), it simply is no sophisticated solution to provide > particular javac options inside of each single dependent POM. > > * So as AFAIK Maven 3 does not yet know the concept of "Platform" modules, > the solution obviously is to add this new concept to Maven 4: Strip the > knowledge about the different platforms (hence, JREs) from the lots of > plugins (like the compiler-plugin or the jar-plugin) into one single > artifact which forms the "JRE 6 Platform" (including some general > "Platform" > interface common not only for the JREs but for all kinds of "Platforms" > like > .NET and Flash etc.). Using this interface, Maven could resolve the > question > "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in the user > classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the platform (using > the > new interface) what the right classpath is, and the platform would answer > with either 'User' or 'System' (interface-defined enum constants for > example). So the JRE 5 might answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer > with 'System' for the
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
a few quick comments who decides what goes into endorsed ...JCP or the soldier on the front lines..the soldier should *always* have the ability to bend the tool to accomplish his specific task the concept of 'ClassLoader Reordering' is accomodated in every decent AppServer...(i know that Websphere and JBoss have ClassLoader preference reordering directives) .NET was the guiding force to enforce version specific 'assemblies' which forced the Maven community to incorporate version (and go head to head with .NET GAC attribute-set) maven-flex-plugin contains Java-based Mojos which 'wrap' mxmlc compiler to package swf from 1)mxml forms as well as 2)ActionScript JS components..and is thus part of 'Java' Binaries are another matter altogether as I have not seen a means to pull version-specific .DLL/.SO..perhaps there is a way to extract the version from header and avoid DLLHell ? file a RFE Thanks to all for this wonderfully well thought out discussion Martin Gainty __ Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung/Note de déni et de confidentialité Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen. Ce message est confidentiel et peut être privilégié. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire prévu, nous te demandons avec bonté que pour satisfaire informez l'expéditeur. N'importe quelle diffusion non autorisée ou la copie de ceci est interdite. Ce message sert à l'information seulement et n'aura pas n'importe quel effet légalement obligatoire. Étant donné que les email peuvent facilement être sujets à la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilité pour le contenu fourni. > From: mar...@headcrashing.eu > To: users@maven.apache.org > Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:19:44 +0200 > > Stephen, > > if we would never address problems that seem hard to fix at first sight, > then the Maven core would never evolve and other system would take over some > day. So a discussion like this one is essential for the future of this tool. > There are too much things left open due to concerns like these (e. g. see > the long lasting discussion about SNAPSHOTs being included in version > ranges), so we should start solving them step by step instead of flinching > due to virtual efforts. :-) > > So let me chime in here and start a discussion by throwing a proposal in the > ring: Introduction of the "Platform" interface in Maven 4! > > Possibly the best way to resolve the endorsed dependency problem mid-term > would be to understand how it comes to the endorsed-ness: Obviously this is > because someone in an official position (like the JCP) decides that > something that was a "normal" dependency before now is "pre-packaged" with > the official runtime package (like the JRE). In the end, that means, that > Maven has to know about that decision to be able to deal with its effects. > > Looking it this way I have to contradict in part: > > * This is _not_ a Java-only problem, as potentially there could be endorsed > libraries in other runtime systems, too, like .NET or Flash, or even Win32 > (for example, I can vividly remember that "GDI+" first was a custom DLL that > everyone had to ship with his own application EXE, but later it was part of > the official Windows SDK, pre-packaged with the operating system; same with > newer ODBC releases BTW). While I do not say that those named examples in > fact do have an endorsement facility (obvisouly besides Win32 where I named > two examples), it could be possible that _some_ other Maven-supported > platform _will_ have such a facility now or in future. So as it is not a > Java-only problem, it makes sense to have a _common_ solution. > > * It is _not_ a problem of scope, since scope is to be defined solely by the > view of the using dependent project always. If the dependent project needs > this library for test only, scope still is 'test' (e. g. a Win32 program > might need a particular release of ODBC for an integration test, while at > runtime it possibly might never use ODBC at all). The fact that a library > was in user space in JRE 5 but is in system space in JRE 6 does not have any > influence on this project's use, hence, of the scope. So there is no need > for another scope. > > * Endorsed libraries are _not_ a prob
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
Stephen, if we would never address problems that seem hard to fix at first sight, then the Maven core would never evolve and other system would take over some day. So a discussion like this one is essential for the future of this tool. There are too much things left open due to concerns like these (e. g. see the long lasting discussion about SNAPSHOTs being included in version ranges), so we should start solving them step by step instead of flinching due to virtual efforts. :-) So let me chime in here and start a discussion by throwing a proposal in the ring: Introduction of the "Platform" interface in Maven 4! Possibly the best way to resolve the endorsed dependency problem mid-term would be to understand how it comes to the endorsed-ness: Obviously this is because someone in an official position (like the JCP) decides that something that was a "normal" dependency before now is "pre-packaged" with the official runtime package (like the JRE). In the end, that means, that Maven has to know about that decision to be able to deal with its effects. Looking it this way I have to contradict in part: * This is _not_ a Java-only problem, as potentially there could be endorsed libraries in other runtime systems, too, like .NET or Flash, or even Win32 (for example, I can vividly remember that "GDI+" first was a custom DLL that everyone had to ship with his own application EXE, but later it was part of the official Windows SDK, pre-packaged with the operating system; same with newer ODBC releases BTW). While I do not say that those named examples in fact do have an endorsement facility (obvisouly besides Win32 where I named two examples), it could be possible that _some_ other Maven-supported platform _will_ have such a facility now or in future. So as it is not a Java-only problem, it makes sense to have a _common_ solution. * It is _not_ a problem of scope, since scope is to be defined solely by the view of the using dependent project always. If the dependent project needs this library for test only, scope still is 'test' (e. g. a Win32 program might need a particular release of ODBC for an integration test, while at runtime it possibly might never use ODBC at all). The fact that a library was in user space in JRE 5 but is in system space in JRE 6 does not have any influence on this project's use, hence, of the scope. So there is no need for another scope. * Endorsed libraries are _not_ a problem of one particular dependent project, but an inherent decision of the platform itself (_every_ dependent project on this particular platform (JRE 6 in this example) suffer from the _same_ pain, as _the platform_ decides that this is endorsed, but neither the dependent project nor the dependency itself). So it is nothing to get configured in neither the dependent POM nor in the dependency's POM, but it is solely a third place that makes up the endorsed-ness: The POM of the "platform" (here: the POM of a hypthetical artifact that makes up what we know as "JRE 6"). Which simply does not exist in Maven 3 AFAIK. * As a result, it is _not_ a particular problem of the compiler, since _all_ compilers (jikes, javac, eclipse) need to support endorsed libraries. As all compilers might have different configuration switches, and selection of the particular compiler might be out of scope of the POM (i. e. defined in company pom for example), it simply is no sophisticated solution to provide particular javac options inside of each single dependent POM. * So as AFAIK Maven 3 does not yet know the concept of "Platform" modules, the solution obviously is to add this new concept to Maven 4: Strip the knowledge about the different platforms (hence, JREs) from the lots of plugins (like the compiler-plugin or the jar-plugin) into one single artifact which forms the "JRE 6 Platform" (including some general "Platform" interface common not only for the JREs but for all kinds of "Platforms" like .NET and Flash etc.). Using this interface, Maven could resolve the question "Is this dependency to be put in the root classpath, or in the user classpath?" automatically. Maven simply needs to ask the platform (using the new interface) what the right classpath is, and the platform would answer with either 'User' or 'System' (interface-defined enum constants for example). So the JRE 5 might answer with 'User' while JRE 6 might answer with 'System' for the same dependency! No need for _any_ configuration in the POM! No need for _any_ POM schema change! Maven could simply set up the root classpath fully automatically that way! Just like one day Eclipse learned the difference between "JRE" and the general term "Platform", Maven 4 has to learn this concept, too. Maybe I should file a RFE for this? Regards Markus > -----Original Message- > From: Steph
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
1. Maven is not just about java (though very java focused I admit) endorsed does not make sense outside of java 2. Whether a dependency needs to be endorsed or not depends on the jvm version it targets... A dep can be fine until it gets added to the jvm spec. 3. It should probably more correctly be endorsed 4. Where would you package an endorsed dependency within a .war or .ear file? And don't get me started on the fact that to change this requires changing the Pom format (which potentially could break ivy, gradle, leinengen, sbt, etc) Not an easy problem to solve, but I feel your pain On Friday, 21 September 2012, Markus KARG wrote: > Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in fact I > wonder > why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have built-in support for endorsed > dependencies? I mean, in the end a different compiler might break the > solution, so it would be a good idea if a dependency could simply marked as > true. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Claves Do Amaral [mailto:claves.doama...@igmarkets.com > ] > > Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 10:30 > > To: Maven Users List > > Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > > > If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide > > endorsed libraries at runtime. > > I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may work. > > Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution > > > > http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens- > > plugins.html > > > > Claves > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de ] > > Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 > > To: users@maven.apache.org > > Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > > > I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for > > classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource annotation). > > But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able to > > load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar instead. How > > can I configure this in the POM? > > > > > > The information contained in this email is strictly confidential and > > for the use of the addressee only, unless otherwise indicated. If you > > are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or > > disclose to others this message or any attachment. Please also notify > > the sender by replying to this email or by telephone (+44 (0)20 7896 > > 0011) and then delete the email and any copies of it. Opinions, > > conclusions (etc.) that do not relate to the official business of this > > company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. IG is > > a trading name of IG Markets Limited, a company registered in England > > and Wales under number 04008957. VAT registration number 761 2978 07. > > Registered Office: Cannon Bridge House, 25 Dowgate Hill, London EC4R > > 2YA. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. FSA > > Register number 195355. > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > >
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
Thank you for pointing me to this excellent blog entry, but in fact I wonder why such a great tool like Maven doesn't have built-in support for endorsed dependencies? I mean, in the end a different compiler might break the solution, so it would be a good idea if a dependency could simply marked as true. > -Original Message- > From: Claves Do Amaral [mailto:claves.doama...@igmarkets.com] > Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 10:30 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide > endorsed libraries at runtime. > I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may work. > Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution > > http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens- > plugins.html > > Claves > > -Original Message- > From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de] > Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 > To: users@maven.apache.org > Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for > classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource annotation). > But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able to > load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar instead. How > can I configure this in the POM? > > > The information contained in this email is strictly confidential and > for the use of the addressee only, unless otherwise indicated. If you > are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or > disclose to others this message or any attachment. Please also notify > the sender by replying to this email or by telephone (+44 (0)20 7896 > 0011) and then delete the email and any copies of it. Opinions, > conclusions (etc.) that do not relate to the official business of this > company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. IG is > a trading name of IG Markets Limited, a company registered in England > and Wales under number 04008957. VAT registration number 761 2978 07. > Registered Office: Cannon Bridge House, 25 Dowgate Hill, London EC4R > 2YA. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. FSA > Register number 195355. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
If I understand the problem well, this is equivalent to provide endorsed libraries at runtime. I have found this resource, that looks a bit dated, but it may work. Not sure if Maven 3 offers a better solution http://www.mindbug.org/2009/02/adding-endorsements-to-mavens-plugins.html Claves -Original Message- From: Markus Karg [mailto:k...@quipsy.de] Sent: 20 September 2012 09:22 To: users@maven.apache.org Subject: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource annotation). But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able to load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar instead. How can I configure this in the POM? The information contained in this email is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only, unless otherwise indicated. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose to others this message or any attachment. Please also notify the sender by replying to this email or by telephone (+44 (0)20 7896 0011) and then delete the email and any copies of it. Opinions, conclusions (etc.) that do not relate to the official business of this company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. IG is a trading name of IG Markets Limited, a company registered in England and Wales under number 04008957. VAT registration number 761 2978 07. Registered Office: Cannon Bridge House, 25 Dowgate Hill, London EC4R 2YA. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. FSA Register number 195355. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
So there is no pure Maven support for this? > -Original Message- > From: anders.g.ham...@gmail.com [mailto:anders.g.ham...@gmail.com] On > Behalf Of Anders Hammar > Sent: Donnerstag, 20. September 2012 11:46 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar? > > I *think* you should be able to do this by specifying an endorsed > directory to be used. This would be standard Java procedure, nothing > Maven specific. > > Something like the following in the config of (for example) the > compiler plugin config: > -Djava.endorsed.dirs=blabla > > Should be possible to do something similar for test executions with > surefire as well. > > /Anders > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Markus Karg wrote: > > I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for > > classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource > annotation). > > But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able > > to load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar > instead. > > How can I configure this in the POM? > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: How to put a dependency in the classpath BEFORE jre.jar?
I *think* you should be able to do this by specifying an endorsed directory to be used. This would be standard Java procedure, nothing Maven specific. Something like the following in the config of (for example) the compiler plugin config: -Djava.endorsed.dirs=blabla Should be possible to do something similar for test executions with surefire as well. /Anders On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Markus Karg wrote: > I have a dependency on javaee.jar, which provides newer versions for > classes found in JRE's jre.jar (particularly the @Resource annotation). > But javaee.jar is always appended to the classpath, while to be able to > load the newer version, I need to PREFIX it before jre.jar instead. How > can I configure this in the POM? > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
