Re: Statement of disappointment

[Ty Young]

On 3/9/20 1:08 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 15:16, Paul Szudzik  wrote:

 I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new to 
NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans as 
long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier to 
find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.

Personally, I think you're putting the "blame" firmly in the wrong
place.  Java is changing, JavaFX is changing, build tools are evolving
- this is all for the better in my opinion, but it requires learning
new things.  And switching IDE will not change that, and will probably
make for even more annoyance.



Right. It isn't Netbeans fault, nor any other IDEs at this point.


Oracle, not Netbeans(who was previously the developers of Netbeans), are 
to blame for the removal of JavaFX. Oracle decided they wanted to 
downsize the JDK, breaking backwards compatibility in the process.



(Oracle/JDK developers will argue JavaFX was never apart of the JDK but 
this is just technical nonsense. Oracle JDK was *THE* JDK before Java 11)



Netbeans supports JavaFX just fine. You just include the libs like any 
other library.





As Emi has already mentioned, there are numerous ways of working the
old way, with a Java 8 JDK, possibly even with JavaFX bundled, for a
number of years yet (although that's maybe not much use if you like
what Gluon is doing).  None of the support for the older ways of
working have been removed from the IDE as far as I know.



You should be able to create a JDK build with JavaFX bundles, yes. It 
worked with JDK 11 at least. This won't help you running on other 
JDK/JRE installs though since those won't have it.



It is also possible to use Java 11's single source code runner to create 
a launcher that specifies JavaFX's modules and load them from a 
directory shipped with the application if you want.





To paraphrase your domain, maybe throw the rock elsewhere?! :-)

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: Statement of disappointment

[Don]

I agree.  I have been using NetBeans since it was called Forte and both 
it and Java were owned and managed by Sun.  I think I was up to version 
8.2 when management switched to Apache and a LOT of things changed.  At 
the same time, almost all of the Swing apps I had produced with earlier 
versions were made obsolete by a switch from in-house to vendor-provided 
web site and cloud-hosted database with a different structure.  A 
different change obsoleted the collection of integration utilities I had 
been keeping going.


Now I am learning Groovy and AngularJS and Netbeans 11 and there are a 
lot of challenges but since I really can't multitask effectively, I try 
to work on one thing at a time.


Don

On 3/9/20 2:08 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 15:16, Paul Szudzik  wrote:

 I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new to 
NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans as 
long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier to 
find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.

Personally, I think you're putting the "blame" firmly in the wrong
place.  Java is changing, JavaFX is changing, build tools are evolving
- this is all for the better in my opinion, but it requires learning
new things.  And switching IDE will not change that, and will probably
make for even more annoyance.

As Emi has already mentioned, there are numerous ways of working the
old way, with a Java 8 JDK, possibly even with JavaFX bundled, for a
number of years yet (although that's maybe not much use if you like
what Gluon is doing).  None of the support for the older ways of
working have been removed from the IDE as far as I know.

To paraphrase your domain, maybe throw the rock elsewhere?! :-)

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: Statement of disappointment

[Neil C Smith]

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 15:16, Paul Szudzik  wrote:
> I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
> The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
> NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new 
> to NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans 
> as long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier 
> to find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
> projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.

Personally, I think you're putting the "blame" firmly in the wrong
place.  Java is changing, JavaFX is changing, build tools are evolving
- this is all for the better in my opinion, but it requires learning
new things.  And switching IDE will not change that, and will probably
make for even more annoyance.

As Emi has already mentioned, there are numerous ways of working the
old way, with a Java 8 JDK, possibly even with JavaFX bundled, for a
number of years yet (although that's maybe not much use if you like
what Gluon is doing).  None of the support for the older ways of
working have been removed from the IDE as far as I know.

To paraphrase your domain, maybe throw the rock elsewhere?! :-)

Best wishes,

Neil

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Geertjan Wielenga]

We'd be happy to help.

Maybe one way would be to work on the code together, i.e., if you
have/create an account (assuming you don't have one yet) on GitHub (
https://github.com/) and then put your whole application there, others (me
for sure) will be happy to take a look at it.

Gj

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 6:58 PM Judi Rastall  wrote:

> Maybe I'm trying to run before I can walk but I have set myself the target
> of rewriting a program I've inherited in Delphi into Java because I want to
> offer the program to run on any platform. So far I have written a splash
> screen with two buttons - Go and Quit. This then loads a menu bar which has
> a number of buttons which then call various functions or routines. So far I
> have two buttons active which load either  table or a screen of help text.
> Everything works perfectly within the IDE when I "Run" the program from
> there. However, when I "Clean & Build", the resulting jar file won't run.
>
> Trying to run from the CMD prompt, I see this error message:
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException
> at javax.swing.ImageIcon.(Unknown Source)
> at wagonflow5.StartScreen.initComponents(StartScreen.java:70)
> at wagonflow5.StartScreen.(StartScreen.java:25)
> at wagonflow5.WagonFlow5.main(WagonFlow5.java:30)
>
> I am running Apache Netbeans 11.3 on Windows 10. Java - version gives:
> java version "1.8.0_241"
> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_241-b07)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.241-b07, mixed mode, sharing)
>
> Why will a program that runs perfectly well within the IDE fail to run
> when compiles?
>
> Judi
>
> On 09/03/2020 16:09, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
> Give us some idea of what the problems are, and maybe we can help?
>
> Gj
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:07 PM Judi Rastall  wrote:
>
>> I have to admit I'm on the point of giving up with Netbeans 11. Programs
>> that used to compile quite happily with V8 no longer compile. I am using
>> images in a subdirectory and the V11 compiler cannot find them so I get
>> null exceptions and it sulks.
>>
>> Judi
>>
>> On 09/03/2020 15:52, Chris Olsen wrote:
>>
>> Paul (and All) --
>>
>>As they say, "I feel your pain!"   The removal of FX was a pain in the 
>> behind for me also, and I am also moving over to Maven from Ant.   I am a 
>> complete amateur (though experienced, Java is about my 5th language.)   Much 
>> of the more technical discussions among Java developers go way over my head.
>>
>>HOWEVER, I have been able to move easily from before to now.  My programs 
>> are almost exclusively statistical, and not really pushing the limits of 
>> Java, which situation may not apply to many.   I found the transition from 8 
>>  to Java 13 (AdoptOpenJDK) to be unexpectedly painless and the transition to 
>> Maven relatively easy (for the most part just copying over packages and 
>> trying to figure out where to put resources.)
>>
>>And I am anticipating 14 soon.
>>
>>-- Chris
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Paul Szudzik  
>> To: Netbeans Mailing List  
>> 
>> Sent: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
>> Subject: Statement of disappointment
>>
>> I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but when 
>> I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate of 
>> NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.
>>
>> Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
>> really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
>> capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no 
>> problem.  Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX 
>> out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets 
>> harder and harder to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX 
>> without going through hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of 
>> projects that are a major pain to go back to without having to dance on a 
>> high wire to get to work.  And I am still not sure I can do this anymore.
>>
>> I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well over 
>> 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, 
>> many languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now. 
>>  I want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system 
>> every release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have 
>> too many modules and programs in play to hack this out.
>>
>> It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built 
>> in conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love 
>> to be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  
>> I currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 
>> 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ 
>> area, but really don’t 

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Judi Rastall]

Maybe I'm trying to run before I can walk but I have set myself the 
target of rewriting a program I've inherited in Delphi into Java because 
I want to offer the program to run on any platform. So far I have 
written a splash screen with two buttons - Go and Quit. This then loads 
a menu bar which has a number of buttons which then call various 
functions or routines. So far I have two buttons active which load 
either  table or a screen of help text. Everything works perfectly 
within the IDE when I "Run" the program from there. However, when I 
"Clean & Build", the resulting jar file won't run.


Trying to run from the CMD prompt, I see this error message:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException
    at javax.swing.ImageIcon.(Unknown Source)
    at wagonflow5.StartScreen.initComponents(StartScreen.java:70)
    at wagonflow5.StartScreen.(StartScreen.java:25)
    at wagonflow5.WagonFlow5.main(WagonFlow5.java:30)

I am running Apache Netbeans 11.3 on Windows 10. Java - version gives:
java version "1.8.0_241"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_241-b07)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.241-b07, mixed mode, sharing)

Why will a program that runs perfectly well within the IDE fail to run 
when compiles?


Judi

On 09/03/2020 16:09, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:

Give us some idea of what the problems are, and maybe we can help?

Gj

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:07 PM Judi Rastall > wrote:


I have to admit I'm on the point of giving up with Netbeans 11.
Programs that used to compile quite happily with V8 no longer
compile. I am using images in a subdirectory and the V11 compiler
cannot find them so I get null exceptions and it sulks.

Judi

On 09/03/2020 15:52, Chris Olsen wrote:

Paul (and All) --

As they say, "I feel your pain!"   The removal of FX was a pain in the 
behind for me also, and I am also moving over to Maven from Ant.   I am a complete 
amateur (though experienced, Java is about my 5th language.)   Much of the more technical 
discussions among Java developers go way over my head.

HOWEVER, I have been able to move easily from before to now.  My 
programs are almost exclusively statistical, and not really pushing the limits 
of Java, which situation may not apply to many.   I found the transition from 8 
 to Java 13 (AdoptOpenJDK) to be unexpectedly painless and the transition to 
Maven relatively easy (for the most part just copying over packages and trying 
to figure out where to put resources.)

And I am anticipating 14 soon.

-- Chris


- Original Message -

From: Paul Szudzik  

To: Netbeans Mailing List  

Sent: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Statement of disappointment

 I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but 
when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate 
of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.

 Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no problem.  
Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the 
mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets harder and harder 
to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through 
hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of projects that are a major 
pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get to work.  And 
I am still not sure I can do this anymore.

 I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well 
over 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, 
many languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now.  I 
want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system every 
release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have too many 
modules and programs in play to hack this out.

 It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built 
in conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love to 
be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  I 
currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / 
Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but 
really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring more than 
another release.

 I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.

 I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  
( The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost 

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Alonso Del Arte]

For what it's worth, I've had problems switching from 8 to 11, too. But
they've been minor glitches. But I barely know JavaFX and I don't use it at
all, I've been quite satisfied with AWT/Swing for my purposes. I've used
Eclipse and found it lacking. IntelliJ's good, but I don't need an IDE to
auto-complete "try" or "val" for me. I've found parameter auto-complete in
NetBeans to be generally much more helpful.

Also, I should note that I never did delete NetBeans 8.2 from my MacBook,
even though I almost never used it after upgrading to 11.1. I figured other
people were sure to have problems in the transition, and I think my luck is
such that I too would have had problems if I had deleted 8.2.

Al

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 12:13 PM Chuck Davis  wrote:

> Paul, many of us "feel your pain" with what Oracle did to JavaFX.  But all
> is not lost.  Take a look here:  http://netbeans.apache.org/kb/docs/java/
>
> Scroll down to the JavaFX section and click on the first item.  You will
> see how completely easy it is to develop JavaFX with Netbeans and Maven.
> Of course, deployment is a different story but Gluon has some good
> information about how to install JavaFX.  Once installed, it's installed --
> until you want to upgrade to the next release and then it is also quite
> simple.  The main difference is defining the module path.
>
> It's a terrible shame all the big players have decided a browser is a
> "good enough" interface for users.  For those of us old enough to remember
> how efficient a character interface was to get work done a browser will
> just never be adequate.  But, as you know, we can get pretty close to that
> efficiency with either Swing or JavaFX.
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 8:16 AM Paul Szudzik 
> wrote:
>
>> I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but
>> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an
>> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse
>> product.
>>
>> Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products,
>> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform
>> capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no
>> problem.  Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX
>> out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets
>> harder and harder to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX
>> without going through hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of
>> projects that are a major pain to go back to without having to dance on a
>> high wire to get to work.  And I am still not sure I can do this anymore.
>>
>> I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well
>> over 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and
>> fall, many languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my
>> scope now.  I want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my
>> build system every release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly
>> failed.  I have too many modules and programs in play to hack this out.
>>
>> It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition ,
>> built in conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I
>> would love to be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding
>> and dancing.  I currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck
>> in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans
>> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2:
>> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release.
>>
>> I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.
>>
>> I see streams of notes that are asking questions about
>> compatibility.  ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once
>> the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost
>> impossible.  If you’re new to NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If
>> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more than just
>> an annoyance.  It almost easier to find another IDE to settle in on, as the
>> amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably more, from old NetBeans
>> to new NetBeans is formidable.
>>
>> Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old
>> projects to Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with
>> trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun,
>> transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I
>> like what Gluon has done, I like the look and feel.
>>
>> NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...
>>
>> I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am
>> now progressing backwards...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Alonso del Arte
Author at SmashWords.com

Musician at ReverbNation.com 

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Chuck Davis]

Paul, many of us "feel your pain" with what Oracle did to JavaFX.  But all
is not lost.  Take a look here:  http://netbeans.apache.org/kb/docs/java/

Scroll down to the JavaFX section and click on the first item.  You will
see how completely easy it is to develop JavaFX with Netbeans and Maven.
Of course, deployment is a different story but Gluon has some good
information about how to install JavaFX.  Once installed, it's installed --
until you want to upgrade to the next release and then it is also quite
simple.  The main difference is defining the module path.

It's a terrible shame all the big players have decided a browser is a "good
enough" interface for users.  For those of us old enough to remember how
efficient a character interface was to get work done a browser will just
never be adequate.  But, as you know, we can get pretty close to that
efficiency with either Swing or JavaFX.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 8:16 AM Paul Szudzik  wrote:

> I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but
> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an
> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse
> product.
>
> Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and
> really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform
> capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no
> problem.  Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX
> out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets
> harder and harder to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX
> without going through hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of
> projects that are a major pain to go back to without having to dance on a
> high wire to get to work.  And I am still not sure I can do this anymore.
>
> I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well
> over 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and
> fall, many languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my
> scope now.  I want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my
> build system every release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly
> failed.  I have too many modules and programs in play to hack this out.
>
> It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built
> in conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love
> to be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.
> I currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans
> 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+
> area, but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring
> more than another release.
>
> I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.
>
> I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.
> ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players
> in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re
> new to NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with
> NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It
> almost easier to find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to
> transfer 100+ projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is
> formidable.
>
> Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old
> projects to Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with
> trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun,
> transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I
> like what Gluon has done, I like the look and feel.
>
> NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...
>
> I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am now
> progressing backwards...
>
>
>
>

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Give us some idea of what the problems are, and maybe we can help?

Gj

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:07 PM Judi Rastall  wrote:

> I have to admit I'm on the point of giving up with Netbeans 11. Programs
> that used to compile quite happily with V8 no longer compile. I am using
> images in a subdirectory and the V11 compiler cannot find them so I get
> null exceptions and it sulks.
>
> Judi
>
> On 09/03/2020 15:52, Chris Olsen wrote:
>
> Paul (and All) --
>
>As they say, "I feel your pain!"   The removal of FX was a pain in the 
> behind for me also, and I am also moving over to Maven from Ant.   I am a 
> complete amateur (though experienced, Java is about my 5th language.)   Much 
> of the more technical discussions among Java developers go way over my head.
>
>HOWEVER, I have been able to move easily from before to now.  My programs 
> are almost exclusively statistical, and not really pushing the limits of 
> Java, which situation may not apply to many.   I found the transition from 8  
> to Java 13 (AdoptOpenJDK) to be unexpectedly painless and the transition to 
> Maven relatively easy (for the most part just copying over packages and 
> trying to figure out where to put resources.)
>
>And I am anticipating 14 soon.
>
>-- Chris
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Paul Szudzik  
> To: Netbeans Mailing List  
> 
> Sent: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Statement of disappointment
>
> I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but when 
> I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate of 
> NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.
>
> Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
> really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
> capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no problem. 
>  Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the 
> mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets harder and 
> harder to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going 
> through hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of projects that 
> are a major pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get 
> to work.  And I am still not sure I can do this anymore.
>
> I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well over 
> 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, many 
> languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now.  I 
> want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system every 
> release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have too 
> many modules and programs in play to hack this out.
>
> It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built in 
> conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love to 
> be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  I 
> currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x 
> / Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ area, 
> but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring more 
> than another release.
>
> I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.
>
> I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
> The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
> NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new 
> to NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans 
> as long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier 
> to find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
> projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.
>
> Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old projects 
> to Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with trying to make 
> things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun, transitioning is 
> not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I like what Gluon has 
> done, I like the look and feel.
>
> NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...
>
> I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am now 
> progressing backwards...
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, 
> visit:https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Judi Rastall]

I have to admit I'm on the point of giving up with Netbeans 11. Programs 
that used to compile quite happily with V8 no longer compile. I am using 
images in a subdirectory and the V11 compiler cannot find them so I get 
null exceptions and it sulks.


Judi

On 09/03/2020 15:52, Chris Olsen wrote:

Paul (and All) --

As they say, "I feel your pain!"   The removal of FX was a pain in the 
behind for me also, and I am also moving over to Maven from Ant.   I am a complete 
amateur (though experienced, Java is about my 5th language.)   Much of the more technical 
discussions among Java developers go way over my head.

HOWEVER, I have been able to move easily from before to now.  My programs 
are almost exclusively statistical, and not really pushing the limits of Java, 
which situation may not apply to many.   I found the transition from 8  to Java 
13 (AdoptOpenJDK) to be unexpectedly painless and the transition to Maven 
relatively easy (for the most part just copying over packages and trying to 
figure out where to put resources.)

And I am anticipating 14 soon.

-- Chris


- Original Message -

From: Paul Szudzik 
To: Netbeans Mailing List 
Sent: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Statement of disappointment

 I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but when I 
worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate of 
NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.

 Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no problem.  
Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the 
mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets harder and harder 
to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through 
hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of projects that are a major 
pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get to work.  And 
I am still not sure I can do this anymore.

 I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well over 
53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, many 
languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now.  I want 
to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system every release. 
 I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have too many modules 
and programs in play to hack this out.

 It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built in 
conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love to be 
on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  I 
currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / 
Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but 
really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring more than 
another release.

 I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.

 I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new to 
NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans as 
long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier to 
find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.

 Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old projects to 
Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with trying to make 
things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun, transitioning is 
not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I like what Gluon has 
done, I like the look and feel.

 NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...

 I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am now 
progressing backwards...




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Re: Statement of disappointment

[Chris Olsen]

Paul (and All) --

   As they say, "I feel your pain!"   The removal of FX was a pain in the 
behind for me also, and I am also moving over to Maven from Ant.   I am a 
complete amateur (though experienced, Java is about my 5th language.)   Much of 
the more technical discussions among Java developers go way over my head.

   HOWEVER, I have been able to move easily from before to now.  My programs 
are almost exclusively statistical, and not really pushing the limits of Java, 
which situation may not apply to many.   I found the transition from 8  to Java 
13 (AdoptOpenJDK) to be unexpectedly painless and the transition to Maven 
relatively easy (for the most part just copying over packages and trying to 
figure out where to put resources.)

   And I am anticipating 14 soon.

   -- Chris

   
- Original Message -
From: Paul Szudzik 
To: Netbeans Mailing List 
Sent: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Statement of disappointment

I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but when I 
worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate of 
NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.

Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no problem.  
Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the 
mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets harder and harder 
to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through 
hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of projects that are a major 
pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get to work.  And 
I am still not sure I can do this anymore.  

I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well over 53+ 
years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, many 
languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now.  I want 
to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system every release. 
 I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have too many modules 
and programs in play to hack this out.

It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built in 
conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love to be 
on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  I 
currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / 
Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but 
really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring more than 
another release.

I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.

I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new to 
NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans as 
long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier to 
find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.

Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old projects to 
Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with trying to make 
things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun, transitioning is 
not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I like what Gluon has 
done, I like the look and feel.

NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...

I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am now 
progressing backwards...




-
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For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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Re: Statement of disappointment

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Indeed, I think the approach Emilian suggests is the way to go. And,
indeed, if you don't want to or have the time to move to Maven of Gradle,
then a lot of modern options start closing off to you.

But, on a different level, for a lot of users of NetBeans, the chickens
have come home to roost: a free and open source project, such as NetBeans,
should never simply have been 'used', it should always have been invested
in. For example, simply filing a bug and hoping someone will turn up to fix
it has never been the way open source is meant to work.

Nothing is ever free -- either you spend time (in understanding how
NetBeans works, for example) or money (in paying JetBrains, for example,
and then you have engineers creating IntelliJ IDEA for you). Not spending
anything at all and hoping things will work out for you has never been a
sustainable approach.

Gjj

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:24 PM Emilian Bold  wrote:

> Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with JavaFX:
>
> https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?=x86-64-bit=jdk-fx
>
> I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like
> configuring the FX mumbo jumbo.
>
> I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's too
> much people can customize...
>
> Given the resources available, things are as they are. They could
> always be better.
>
> --emi
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik 
> wrote:
> >
> > I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but
> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an
> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse
> product.
> >
> > Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products,
> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform
> capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no
> problem.  Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX
> out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets
> harder and harder to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX
> without going through hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of
> projects that are a major pain to go back to without having to dance on a
> high wire to get to work.  And I am still not sure I can do this anymore.
> >
> > I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well
> over 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and
> fall, many languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my
> scope now.  I want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my
> build system every release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly
> failed.  I have too many modules and programs in play to hack this out.
> >
> > It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition ,
> built in conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I
> would love to be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding
> and dancing.  I currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck
> in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans
> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2:
> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release.
> >
> > I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.
> >
> > I see streams of notes that are asking questions about
> compatibility.  ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once
> the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost
> impossible.  If you’re new to NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If
> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more than just
> an annoyance.  It almost easier to find another IDE to settle in on, as the
> amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably more, from old NetBeans
> to new NetBeans is formidable.
> >
> > Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old
> projects to Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with
> trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun,
> transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I
> like what Gluon has done, I like the look and feel.
> >
> > NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...
> >
> > I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am
> now progressing backwards...
> >
> >
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>

Re: Statement of disappointment

[Emilian Bold]

Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with JavaFX:
https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?=x86-64-bit=jdk-fx

I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like
configuring the FX mumbo jumbo.

I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's too
much people can customize...

Given the resources available, things are as they are. They could
always be better.

--emi

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik  wrote:
>
> I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but when 
> I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate of 
> NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.
>
> Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
> really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
> capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no problem. 
>  Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the 
> mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets harder and 
> harder to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going 
> through hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of projects that 
> are a major pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get 
> to work.  And I am still not sure I can do this anymore.
>
> I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well over 
> 53+ years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, many 
> languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now.  I 
> want to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system every 
> release.  I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have too 
> many modules and programs in play to hack this out.
>
> It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built in 
> conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love to 
> be on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  I 
> currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x 
> / Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ area, 
> but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring more 
> than another release.
>
> I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.
>
> I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
> The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
> NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new 
> to NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans 
> as long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier 
> to find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
> projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.
>
> Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old projects 
> to Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with trying to make 
> things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun, transitioning is 
> not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I like what Gluon has 
> done, I like the look and feel.
>
> NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...
>
> I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am now 
> progressing backwards...
>
>
>

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Statement of disappointment

[Paul Szudzik]

I have been a NetBeans user since inception.  I am retired now, but when I 
worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an advocate of 
NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, Eclipse product.

Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my products, and 
really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross platform 
capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows.  Raspberry Pi, no problem.  
Windows, no problem.  I loved it. Then boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the 
mix, and NetBeans and I start having major problems. It gets harder and harder 
to use NetBeans with it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through 
hoops every single time we upgrade.  I have a ton of projects that are a major 
pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get to work.  And 
I am still not sure I can do this anymore.  

I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for well over 53+ 
years.  I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise and fall, many 
languages surface and crash.  The move to Maven is beyond my scope now.  I want 
to program, not to have to regenerate and rehash my build system every release. 
 I have tried to move over to 11, and mostly failed.  I have too many modules 
and programs in play to hack this out.

It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition , built in 
conversions for old projects to current format.  Seriously, I would love to be 
on that train.  But nope, it seems too much handholding and dancing.  I 
currently have a half dozen active Beta’s  that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / 
Java 8 scenario, that I want to port into NetBeans 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but 
really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, 2: Lasting, 3: Enduring more than 
another release.

I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved.

I see streams of notes that are asking questions about compatibility.  ( 
The latest straw is the Ant image ... )  I see how once the major players in 
NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is almost impossible.  If you’re new to 
NetBeans, perhaps this is a good trend.  If you have dealt with NetBeans as 
long as I have.. it becomes more than just an annoyance.  It almost easier to 
find another IDE to settle in on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ 
projects, probably more, from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable.

Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old projects to 
Maven..  I’d rather develop and code than mess around with trying to make 
things move up the NetBeans chain anymore..  Coding is fun, transitioning is 
not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I like the layouts, I like what Gluon has 
done, I like the look and feel.

NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ...

I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I am now 
progressing backwards...

Re: 11.3 - Can't use "Package As" with Ant project any more

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Maybe it will still work if you run NetBeans itself on JDK 8.

Gj

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 11:54, Thomas Kellerer  wrote:

> I found it very convenient to use the "Package as Image Only" feature in
> the past.
>
> I have an old Ant-based project where this used to work, but when I tried
> it with the latest NetBeans 11.3, it fails because NetBeans tries to use
> some JavaFX classes.
>
> The error message I get when invoking "Package as -> Image Only" is:
>
>\nbproject\build-native.xml:519: typedef class
> com.sun.javafx.tools.ant.FXJar cannot be found
> using the classloader AntClassLoader[]
>
> Is there a way I can disable the use of JavaFX for building the image?
>
> I also tried adding JavaFX to the project as documented here:
> https://openjfx.io/openjfx-docs/#IDE-NetBeans but that doesn't make a
> difference.
>
> Is there anything else I need to configure, to make this work?
>
> Just to avoid confusion: I do not want to use JavaFX in my application or
> create an image that can use JavaFX.
> I only want to create a binary distribution for a Java SE Swing
> application.
>
> I am running NetBeans with OpenJDK 13, but the target platform is Java 11.
>
> Thanks
> Thomas
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>

11.3 - Can't use "Package As" with Ant project any more

[Thomas Kellerer]

I found it very convenient to use the "Package as Image Only" feature in the 
past.

I have an old Ant-based project where this used to work, but when I tried it 
with the latest NetBeans 11.3, it fails because NetBeans tries to use some 
JavaFX classes.

The error message I get when invoking "Package as -> Image Only" is:

   \nbproject\build-native.xml:519: typedef class 
com.sun.javafx.tools.ant.FXJar cannot be found
using the classloader AntClassLoader[]

Is there a way I can disable the use of JavaFX for building the image?

I also tried adding JavaFX to the project as documented here: 
https://openjfx.io/openjfx-docs/#IDE-NetBeans but that doesn't make a 
difference.

Is there anything else I need to configure, to make this work?

Just to avoid confusion: I do not want to use JavaFX in my application or 
create an image that can use JavaFX.
I only want to create a binary distribution for a Java SE Swing application.

I am running NetBeans with OpenJDK 13, but the target platform is Java 11.

Thanks
Thomas


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Re: Image Previewing

[Geertjan Wielenga]

https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/ide/image

Gj

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 08:13, Peter Steele  wrote:

> Netbeans has a useful feature for previewing images (you just double click
> and it opens a window with the image in), I can view bmp and png images as
> an example. Not all image formats that I use are preview able though. Can
> someone help point me in to the right direction as to how I can add support
> for the other formats that I have? Or to describe how the current process
> works?
>

Image Previewing

[Peter Steele]

Netbeans has a useful feature for previewing images (you just double click
and it opens a window with the image in), I can view bmp and png images as
an example. Not all image formats that I use are preview able though. Can
someone help point me in to the right direction as to how I can add support
for the other formats that I have? Or to describe how the current process
works?