Re: Adding dependencies in Gradle

[Laszlo Kishalmi]

You can have a file dependency to the other project artifact.

Or use composite Gradle builds:
https://docs.gradle.org/current/userguide/composite_builds.html


On 4/22/21 2:55 PM, Don wrote:

That shows a general dependency on another project.  In a NetBeans Ant 
project there are 2 main folders:   Source   and Library.  Right-click 
on library brings up a menu which allows me to add a Project, a Jar, 
and a predefined library containing several jar files. Can I add a jar 
as a dependency or at least as something that will allow me to include 
classes from the library in my .java files?


On 4/22/21 11:19 AM, joe foe wrote:

You have to add the project as a dependency.

See
https://docs.gradle.org/current/userguide/declaring_dependencies.html#sub:project_dependencies 



Regards,
JoeFoe

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 16:25 Don, > wrote:


With the reduction of support for Ant, which I have been using
for my
Java projects since 2004 or so, I decided to start learning
Gradle.  I
downloaded NetBeans 12.3 and proceeded to re-create the library/.jar
files I use to implement some basic classes that are specialized
for our
environment.  In Ant, it was easy to add a library to another
library
project but I do not see any way to tell Project B that it needs to
include the .jar from Project A. What am I missing?



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Re: Adding dependencies in Gradle

[Don]

That shows a general dependency on another project.  In a NetBeans Ant 
project there are 2 main folders:   Source   and Library.  Right-click 
on library brings up a menu which allows me to add a Project, a Jar, and 
a predefined library containing several jar files. Can I add a jar as a 
dependency or at least as something that will allow me to include 
classes from the library in my .java files?


On 4/22/21 11:19 AM, joe foe wrote:

You have to add the project as a dependency.

See
https://docs.gradle.org/current/userguide/declaring_dependencies.html#sub:project_dependencies 



Regards,
JoeFoe

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 16:25 Don, > wrote:


With the reduction of support for Ant, which I have been using for my
Java projects since 2004 or so, I decided to start learning
Gradle.  I
downloaded NetBeans 12.3 and proceeded to re-create the library/.jar
files I use to implement some basic classes that are specialized
for our
environment.  In Ant, it was easy to add a library to another library
project but I do not see any way to tell Project B that it needs to
include the .jar from Project A. What am I missing?



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Re: Maven EJB project creates all modules as WAR files

[Will Hartung]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 7:36 AM Wayne Gemmell | Connect <
wa...@connect-mobile.co.za> wrote:

> Hi Will
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I've changed my app to be a war. It was
> surprisingly easy. What should I watch out for in terms of changes?
> I presumy my timer beans will have to be replaced by cron jobs. Is there
> anything else that may sneak up on me. I'm starting testing at the moment.
>

Yes, timer beans are another thing.

IMHO, Timer beans are "OK", but I've had more issues with them than not
over the years, particularly in a clustered/load balanced environment. Most
timer beans are not just singletons, but cluster wide singletons. So
there's hoop jumping involved to handle that.

The idea of a cron job is sound. Today, I would just use a cron job to
tickle a simple web service trigger to start the job. This has the
advantage that in a load balanced environment, you point this to the
frontend load balancer, and any one of the backends handles the job. This
solves the problem of not having to worry about which machine controls the
timer beans, having to orchestrate which ones are doing what, prevents
having the master node problem of "we'll run timer beans on node 1", which
is fine until node 1 is down for some reason.

The dark side of cron jobs is that they will run whether the previous job
has completed or not. Not a problem for a report that runs at 2am, but can
be a problem for something that runs every 1 minute, or 5 minutes. Also,
cron only has 1m resolution.

So, that's a concern as well. All of these have issues, you just have to
pick what fits you best.

Best part about a URL triggered job is if something goes awry, you can just
kick off the job manually. Harder to do that with timer beans.

You can also look into the Quartz library, it's a java based package that
can do cron like things, if that's of interest. (Cron is still probably a
better idea, because it's so easy to configure vs restarting an app.)

Other than that, if you're not using those EJB artifacts, like MDBs, JCA,
Timers, it should go well. I've never used the new Batch facility, I don't
know where it lives.

A single WAR certainly can simplify things.

Regards,

Will Hartung

Re: Adding dependencies in Gradle

[joe foe]

You have to add the project as a dependency.

See

https://docs.gradle.org/current/userguide/declaring_dependencies.html#sub:project_dependencies

Regards,
JoeFoe

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 16:25 Don,  wrote:

> With the reduction of support for Ant, which I have been using for my
> Java projects since 2004 or so, I decided to start learning Gradle.  I
> downloaded NetBeans 12.3 and proceeded to re-create the library/.jar
> files I use to implement some basic classes that are specialized for our
> environment.  In Ant, it was easy to add a library to another library
> project but I do not see any way to tell Project B that it needs to
> include the .jar from Project A. What am I missing?
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>

Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Oliver Rettig]

+1
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:15, Geertjan Wielenga
> 
>  wrote:
> > should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> > NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects
> -1 from me.  I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
> should look at whether particular templates need updating or removing
> entirely.  But Ant still has its place, particularly with regard to
> the platform.
> 
> I'd also prefer an unopinionated IDE.  And from an ASF perspective,
> Ant is still an active project here - Apache's IDE should possibly not
> be deciding when it's time to retire it! :-)
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Neil
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
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> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Netbeans 12.3 - Gradle

[Helmut Leininger]

Thanks for the info.

Helmut

Am 22.04.2021 um 16:16 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga:

Neither Java 16 nor Gradle 7 are supported in 12.3.

But both are in 12.4, join the dev mailing list where we're currently
working on 12.4 and where we're also trying out a release candidate.

Gj

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 4:14 PM Helmut Leininger 
wrote:

Hi,

I am running Netbeans 12.3 with Gradle 7.0 and Openjdk 16 on
Windows 10.

When running a Gradle task (like clean, build etc.) I get the
following error message:

Unable to watch the file system for changes
net.rubygrapefruit.platform.NativeException: Could not query file
systems: could not get volume information (errno 1005)
    at

net.rubygrapefruit.platform.internal.PosixFileSystems.getFileSystems(PosixFileSystems.java:32)

and the unterlying Java process does not seem to terminate (?).

Any ideas what I can do (besides not using one of the components) ?

Thanks and regards
Helmut Leininger


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Re: Deployment Tutorial Source Files

[antonio]

Hi all,

Maybe we could scan all tutorial pages and replace the links that end 
with ".zip" ".tgz" or similar things with direct links to the web 
archive, so people can download them.


Many of these samples have unkown licenses, so I don't think we can 
include these directly in the website. Also maybe we end up with many 
megabytes!


Cheers,
Antonio


El 22/4/21 a las 15:17, Sean Carrick escribió:

Just as a quick aside:

Whenever you are looking at tutorials or StackOverflow answers regarding 
Java, a lot of the links will be to either netbeans.org, Project Kenai, 
or java.net. So, what you should always do is:


 1. Rright-click the link
 2. Copy the address
 3. Go to The Wayback Machine at web.archive.org 
 4. Paste the link into the search bar

I have found much help with broken links this way and it is a huge 
time-saver! The Wayback Machine was an ingenious idea and I am extremely 
grateful to whoever came up with it!!


-SC


On 4/22/21 12:40 AM, antonio wrote:

You are welcome!

If this is linked from a tutorial you may want:

a) To update the link in the tutorial page (you can modify it in 
github using the "edit" button).


b) To upload the sample somewhere (github? gitlab?) and then send a 
link to the repository.


By doing so the next person will have it easy to find the samples.

Cheers,
Antonio

El 21/4/21 a las 23:31, Peter escribió:

Perfect! Thank you.

On 2021/04/21 21:00:55, antonio  wrote:

Yep

http://web.archive.org/web/2012060100*/https://netbeans.org/projects/samples/downloads/download/Samples%2FJava%2FDeploymentTutorial.zip 



El 21/4/21 a las 20:16, Peter Ream escribió:

I am looking at the netbeans website “Java SE Learning Trail”,
specifically “Packaging and Distributing Java Desktop Application.”
There is a reference to “Deployment Tutorial Source Files” :

https://netbeans.org/projects/samples/downloads/download/Samples%252FJava%252FDeploymentTutorial.zip 

 



Does this zip file exist somewhere since decommissioning netbeans.org
?

Thank you.



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Re: Maven EJB project creates all modules as WAR files

[Wayne Gemmell | Connect]

Hi Will

Thanks for the feedback. I've changed my app to be a war. It was
surprisingly easy. What should I watch out for in terms of changes?
I presumy my timer beans will have to be replaced by cron jobs. Is there
anything else that may sneak up on me. I'm starting testing at the moment.





On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 17:23, Will Hartung  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 12:55 AM Wayne Gemmell | Connect <
> wa...@connect-mobile.co.za> wrote:
>
>> Is the perception that nobody does Maven EAR's anymore or that nobody
>> uses EARs? I have a web app that has given me no shortage of issuse with
>> ant.
>> I'm trying to move it to Maven. If nobody is using maven then I need to
>> move to something else. If nobody is using EAR's anymore then I'm pretty
>> stuck figuring out this Maven issue.
>>
>
> Well, it's several things.
>
> EARs are less popular because their necessity has been greatly reduced.
> Session beans can be placed in WARs now, so for many use cases, a WAR is
> completely adequate to the task.
>
> However, it's not suitable for all use cases.
>
> Notably, MDBs can not be deployed in WARs. But only as an EJB either
> deployed standalone, or bundled within an EAR.
>
> With the hue and cry over micro services and "down with the monolith",
> just the idea of a large application bundled in a EAR is falling out of
> favor.
>
> Also, there's a history of advocacy underlying this. Sun used NetBeans as
> a mechanism to advocate for Java and Java EE. It behooved them to have
> something like NetBeans to make Java EE development easier. So, it was
> important for NetBeans to have really first class Java EE support. Bundling
> the Java EE wizards and templates along with Glassfish all helped promote
> that.
>
> Of course, now, with the great Java Diaspora out of Oracle, the goals and
> drivers are different.
>
> For your project, if all you have is a web app and some session beans,
> then a simple WAR file is good to go. The Ant projects seem to essentially
> be deprecated now, so I would not rely on those for anything. If practical,
> especially if your project is young, I would migrate it to Maven. The Maven
> WAR is a pretty simple project and seems to work ok. Maven isn't going away
> any time soon, Gradle, it's primary competitor, doesn't really have the
> traction to overcome it yet, and it's been going for some time. If nothing
> else, the pom.xml file has become a de facto portable project format if,
> for nothing else, to capture dependencies.
>
> Honestly, I think NB should have an internal conversation about removing
> the "new project" support for Ant projects, while still being able to open
> existing ones. It just confuses a lot of people if they're not going to be
> supported.
>
> And I still haven't heard any concrete position the project has on
> internalizing Maven archetypes used for project wizards, or the process of
> adopting that.
>
> Legacy archetypes that used to work in NB 8 are now failing because
> they've vanished from Maven central. So, an external dependency broke an
> internal feature.
>
> Feel free to follow up with specific questions about getting your project
> to work and/or converted to Maven.
>
> Regards,
>
> Will Hartung
>
>

Re: Netbeans 12.3 - Gradle

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Neither Java 16 nor Gradle 7 are supported in 12.3.

But both are in 12.4, join the dev mailing list where we're currently
working on 12.4 and where we're also trying out a release candidate.

Gj

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 4:14 PM Helmut Leininger  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am running Netbeans 12.3 with Gradle 7.0 and Openjdk 16 on Windows 10.
>
> When running a Gradle task (like clean, build etc.) I get the following
> error message:
>
> Unable to watch the file system for changes
> net.rubygrapefruit.platform.NativeException: Could not query file systems:
> could not get volume information (errno 1005)
> at
> net.rubygrapefruit.platform.internal.PosixFileSystems.getFileSystems(PosixFileSystems.java:32)
>
> and the unterlying Java process does not seem to terminate (?).
>
> Any ideas what I can do (besides not using one of the components) ?
>
> Thanks and regards
> Helmut Leininger
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Adding dependencies in Gradle

[Don]

With the reduction of support for Ant, which I have been using for my 
Java projects since 2004 or so, I decided to start learning Gradle.  I 
downloaded NetBeans 12.3 and proceeded to re-create the library/.jar 
files I use to implement some basic classes that are specialized for our 
environment.  In Ant, it was easy to add a library to another library 
project but I do not see any way to tell Project B that it needs to 
include the .jar from Project A. What am I missing?




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Netbeans 12.3 - Gradle

[Helmut Leininger]

Hi,

I am running Netbeans 12.3 with Gradle 7.0 and Openjdk 16 on Windows 10.

When running a Gradle task (like clean, build etc.) I get the following
error message:

Unable to watch the file system for changes
net.rubygrapefruit.platform.NativeException: Could not query file
systems: could not get volume information (errno 1005)
    at
net.rubygrapefruit.platform.internal.PosixFileSystems.getFileSystems(PosixFileSystems.java:32)

and the unterlying Java process does not seem to terminate (?).

Any ideas what I can do (besides not using one of the components) ?

Thanks and regards
Helmut Leininger
<>
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Re: Deployment Tutorial Source Files

[Sean Carrick]

Just as a quick aside:

Whenever you are looking at tutorials or StackOverflow answers regarding
Java, a lot of the links will be to either netbeans.org, Project Kenai,
or java.net. So, what you should always do is:

 1. Rright-click the link
 2. Copy the address
 3. Go to The Wayback Machine at web.archive.org 
 4. Paste the link into the search bar

I have found much help with broken links this way and it is a huge
time-saver! The Wayback Machine was an ingenious idea and I am extremely
grateful to whoever came up with it!!

-SC


On 4/22/21 12:40 AM, antonio wrote:
> You are welcome!
>
> If this is linked from a tutorial you may want:
>
> a) To update the link in the tutorial page (you can modify it in
> github using the "edit" button).
>
> b) To upload the sample somewhere (github? gitlab?) and then send a
> link to the repository.
>
> By doing so the next person will have it easy to find the samples.
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
> El 21/4/21 a las 23:31, Peter escribió:
>> Perfect! Thank you.
>>
>> On 2021/04/21 21:00:55, antonio  wrote:
>>> Yep
>>>
>>> http://web.archive.org/web/2012060100*/https://netbeans.org/projects/samples/downloads/download/Samples%2FJava%2FDeploymentTutorial.zip
>>>
>>>
>>> El 21/4/21 a las 20:16, Peter Ream escribió:
 I am looking at the netbeans website “Java SE Learning Trail”,
 specifically “Packaging and Distributing Java Desktop Application.”
 There is a reference to “Deployment Tutorial Source Files” :

 https://netbeans.org/projects/samples/downloads/download/Samples%252FJava%252FDeploymentTutorial.zip

 


 Does this zip file exist somewhere since decommissioning netbeans.org
 ?

 Thank you.

>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
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>>
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>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>
> -
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>
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>

Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Sean Carrick]

> -1 from me.  I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
> should look at whether particular templates need updating or removing
> entirely.  But Ant still has its place, particularly with regard to
> the platform.
>
> I'd also prefer an unopinionated IDE.  And from an ASF perspective,
> Ant is still an active project here - Apache's IDE should possibly not
> be deciding when it's time to retire it! :-)

+1 to Neil's comment! An IDE should remain a tool and not a ruler.

We should reach out to the Apache Ant (and other Apache projects) for
collaboration with us.

> In an ideal world, the Apache Ant community would be developing and
> promoting the Apache Ant features in Apache NetBeans.
Another +1 to GJ's comment. Darn right that the Apache Ant community
should be promoting and */touting/* the Apache Ant features in NB! I
believe, if I am remembering correctly, that NB was one of the first
Java IDEs to provide integrated support for Apache Ant. And the IDE
integration for it has always be top-notch...
/*
*/
-SC

Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Good point, Neil. :-)

We should reach out to the Apache Ant (and other Apache projects) for
collaboration with us.

In an ideal world, the Apache Ant community would be developing and
promoting the Apache Ant features in Apache NetBeans.

Gj

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 10:17, Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:15, Geertjan Wielenga
>  wrote:
> > should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects
>
> -1 from me.  I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
> should look at whether particular templates need updating or removing
> entirely.  But Ant still has its place, particularly with regard to
> the platform.
>
> I'd also prefer an unopinionated IDE.  And from an ASF perspective,
> Ant is still an active project here - Apache's IDE should possibly not
> be deciding when it's time to retire it! :-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>

Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Neil C Smith]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:15, Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from 
> NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects

-1 from me.  I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
should look at whether particular templates need updating or removing
entirely.  But Ant still has its place, particularly with regard to
the platform.

I'd also prefer an unopinionated IDE.  And from an ASF perspective,
Ant is still an active project here - Apache's IDE should possibly not
be deciding when it's time to retire it! :-)

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Owen Thomas]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 17:15, Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

> I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
> discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started:
> should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other
> Ant functionality).
>

I think you're saying that Ant isn't the best choice of build tool for
modern development methodologies, and I would agree with this sentiment. I
still use Ant for my projects because I created them a long time ago with
Ant, they don't make use of third party stuff, and... admittedly... no one
else works with me, so I've never felt the compulsion to move.

I think Ant is still a good option to do relatively lightweight and
experimental work. I've created more than 100 projects using Ant - most of
which have an active life of about 20 minutes, and many of which don't even
compile. Perhaps I'd put it further down the list of options available from
the create projects menu (I have indeed noticed this has happened in the
12.2 version of NB that I'm using at the moment) but removing it from the
options seems to be an unnecessary snub.

I suppose I've just got to move with the times.

Done... probably.

  Owen.

Re: [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[John Mc]

Just keep it simple:

"Apache NetBeans recommends for beginners creating new projects with modern
build/dependency frameworks like Maven or Gradle"

I wouldn't include a reference, warning of its potential removal, since
that's not been the common consensus here...

Regards

John

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:32, Ewan Slater  wrote:

> I think a warning message that:
>
>1. Recommends Maven or Gradle
>2. Warns that Ant project creating may be removed in a future release.
>
> My €0.02
> --
> *From:* Geertjan Wielenga 
> *Sent:* 22 April 2021 08:15
> *Cc:* users@netbeans.apache.org 
> *Subject:* [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant
> projects
>
> Hi all,
>
> I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
> discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started:
> should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other
> Ant functionality).
>
> The previous time we had this discussion we solved it by moving Maven and
> Gradle projects above Ant projects, as descrbed here:
>
>
> https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in
> 
>
> A next step (very simple) could be to change all the desciptions of Ant
> projects in the New Project wizard to a warning message stating that
> NetBeans recommends usage of Maven or Gradle instead of Ant.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:30, Bilu  wrote:
>
> +1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.
>
> I personnally still use Ant for my projects
> Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
>
> If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one
> should be able to do that.
>
> I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for Android
> on IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can see their use
> when one has to manage one's code base against differing versions of third
> party libraries. That's great, but if one is merely doing something small,
> especially something that might showcase some feature of SE without
> bringing in functionality of third party libraries, Ant leaves the
> developer alone to do that. All the stuff that Gradle and Maven introduce
> to one's build script becomes useless boilerplate - a distraction
> especially when one merely wants to demonstrate or learn a feature of the
> SE API and perhaps even to grasp some of the necessity of the build script
> itself.
>
> It's not difficult to move a project to Maven or Gradle or any other build
> script. Copy one's /src directory from the Ant project to the appropriate
> directory of the destination project (maybe set a main class) and off you
> go. Novice developers can easily be scared into withdrawal by
> considerations that are not salient to their aims, and the distractions
> that Maven/Gradle build scripts introduce can only encourage withdrawal
> into those developers who are trying to navigate this world alone. I would
> consider it a backward step if NB were to adopt the position of other IDEs
> and appropriate an air of superiority around the choice of build script.
> Because nothing more than an air of superiority is projected by an IDE that
> doesn't permit the creation of Ant projects.
>
> I like Ant. Ant is good. Leave Ant alone.
>
> Done.
>
>   Owen.
>
>

Re: [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Ewan Slater]

I think a warning message that:

  1.  Recommends Maven or Gradle
  2.  Warns that Ant project creating may be removed in a future release.

My €0.02

From: Geertjan Wielenga 
Sent: 22 April 2021 08:15
Cc: users@netbeans.apache.org 
Subject: [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

Hi all,

I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this discussion 
don’t understand the key point with which this thread started: should we 
consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from NetBeans the 
ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other Ant functionality).

The previous time we had this discussion we solved it by moving Maven and 
Gradle projects above Ant projects, as descrbed here:

https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in

A next step (very simple) could be to change all the desciptions of Ant 
projects in the New Project wizard to a warning message stating that NetBeans 
recommends usage of Maven or Gradle instead of Ant.

Thanks,

Gj

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:30, Bilu 
mailto:albi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

+1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.

I personnally still use Ant for my projects

Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one should be 
able to do that.

I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for Android on 
IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can see their use when 
one has to manage one's code base against differing versions of third party 
libraries. That's great, but if one is merely doing something small, especially 
something that might showcase some feature of SE without bringing in 
functionality of third party libraries, Ant leaves the developer alone to do 
that. All the stuff that Gradle and Maven introduce to one's build script 
becomes useless boilerplate - a distraction especially when one merely wants to 
demonstrate or learn a feature of the SE API and perhaps even to grasp some of 
the necessity of the build script itself.

It's not difficult to move a project to Maven or Gradle or any other build 
script. Copy one's /src directory from the Ant project to the appropriate 
directory of the destination project (maybe set a main class) and off you go. 
Novice developers can easily be scared into withdrawal by considerations that 
are not salient to their aims, and the distractions that Maven/Gradle build 
scripts introduce can only encourage withdrawal into those developers who are 
trying to navigate this world alone. I would consider it a backward step if NB 
were to adopt the position of other IDEs and appropriate an air of superiority 
around the choice of build script. Because nothing more than an air of 
superiority is projected by an IDE that doesn't permit the creation of Ant 
projects.

I like Ant. Ant is good. Leave Ant alone.

Done.

  Owen.

Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Hi all,

I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started:
should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other
Ant functionality).

The previous time we had this discussion we solved it by moving Maven and
Gradle projects above Ant projects, as descrbed here:

https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in

A next step (very simple) could be to change all the desciptions of Ant
projects in the New Project wizard to a warning message stating that
NetBeans recommends usage of Maven or Gradle instead of Ant.

Thanks,

Gj

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:30, Bilu  wrote:

> +1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.
>
> I personnally still use Ant for my projects
> Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
>
> If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one
> should be able to do that.
>
> I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for Android
> on IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can see their use
> when one has to manage one's code base against differing versions of third
> party libraries. That's great, but if one is merely doing something small,
> especially something that might showcase some feature of SE without
> bringing in functionality of third party libraries, Ant leaves the
> developer alone to do that. All the stuff that Gradle and Maven introduce
> to one's build script becomes useless boilerplate - a distraction
> especially when one merely wants to demonstrate or learn a feature of the
> SE API and perhaps even to grasp some of the necessity of the build script
> itself.
>
> It's not difficult to move a project to Maven or Gradle or any other build
> script. Copy one's /src directory from the Ant project to the appropriate
> directory of the destination project (maybe set a main class) and off you
> go. Novice developers can easily be scared into withdrawal by
> considerations that are not salient to their aims, and the distractions
> that Maven/Gradle build scripts introduce can only encourage withdrawal
> into those developers who are trying to navigate this world alone. I would
> consider it a backward step if NB were to adopt the position of other IDEs
> and appropriate an air of superiority around the choice of build script.
> Because nothing more than an air of superiority is projected by an IDE that
> doesn't permit the creation of Ant projects.
>
> I like Ant. Ant is good. Leave Ant alone.
>
> Done.
>
>   Owen.
>
>

Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects

[Bilu]

+1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.

I personnally still use Ant for my projects

Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
> If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one
> should be able to do that.
>
> I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for
> Android on IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can
> see their use when one has to manage one's code base against differing
> versions of third party libraries. That's great, but if one is merely
> doing something small, especially something that might showcase some
> feature of SE without bringing in functionality of third party
> libraries, Ant leaves the developer alone to do that. All the stuff
> that Gradle and Maven introduce to one's build script becomes useless
> boilerplate - a distraction especially when one merely wants to
> demonstrate or learn a feature of the SE API and perhaps even to grasp
> some of the necessity of the build script itself.
>
> It's not difficult to move a project to Maven or Gradle or any other
> build script. Copy one's /src directory from the Ant project to the
> appropriate directory of the destination project (maybe set a main
> class) and off you go. Novice developers can easily be scared into
> withdrawal by considerations that are not salient to their aims, and
> the distractions that Maven/Gradle build scripts introduce can only
> encourage withdrawal into those developers who are trying to navigate
> this world alone. I would consider it a backward step if NB were to
> adopt the position of other IDEs and appropriate an air of superiority
> around the choice of build script. Because nothing more than an air of
> superiority is projected by an IDE that doesn't permit the creation of
> Ant projects.
>
> I like Ant. Ant is good. Leave Ant alone.
>
> Done.
>
>   Owen.