Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Gregor Kovač]

Hi,

there is a plugin for Chat GPT 
(https://github.com/Hillrunner2008/netbeans-chatgpt/tree/master), but 
I'm not sure how good it is.


Best regards,

    Gregor


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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Ty Young]

It's 2024 and people are emailing a storm about adding AI to a Java IDE 
that can't rename or move classes/interfaces without falling over 
itself. What a time to be alive.



On 2/8/24 9:54 AM, Sam Lalani wrote:


I was wondering if there are any plugins or any plans to add an AI 
assistant to NetBeans like Github Copilot for Visual Studio Code.



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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Andreas Reichel]

Greetings!

On Sun, 2024-02-11 at 16:39 -0500, Benjamin Neuman wrote:
> Sincerely wish my favorite IDE netbeans would recognize where the
> future lies but it is losing ground and relevance quickly.

Why not use your AI tool in IntelliJ and write the plugin for Netbeans
quickly?
Win-win-situation!

Cheers
Andreas

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Owen Thomas]

NetBeans appears to give me everything I need without harassment. I think
there are magic pixies at IntelliJ waving moral fingers at me to be more
like them, because they keep telling me that they walk in the garden of
Eden.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 09:47, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Several people in this thread still, after all these years, seem under the
> mistaken impression that there are magic pixies creating things in NetBeans.
>
> There. Are. No. Pixies. There. Is. Only. You.
>
> You are NetBeans. Missing a feature? Then create that feature. You don't
> want to create that feature. That means you don't really need that feature
> after all.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 11:08 PM Owen Thomas 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 08:40, Benjamin Neuman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> To the luddites, I believe you are going to be left behind.
>>>
>>
>> Better watch out then.
>>
>

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Several people in this thread still, after all these years, seem under the
mistaken impression that there are magic pixies creating things in NetBeans.

There. Are. No. Pixies. There. Is. Only. You.

You are NetBeans. Missing a feature? Then create that feature. You don't
want to create that feature. That means you don't really need that feature
after all.

Gj

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 11:08 PM Owen Thomas 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 08:40, Benjamin Neuman 
> wrote:
>
>> To the luddites, I believe you are going to be left behind.
>>
>
> Better watch out then.
>

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Owen Thomas]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 08:40, Benjamin Neuman  wrote:

> To the luddites, I believe you are going to be left behind.
>

Better watch out then.

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Benjamin Neuman]

To the luddites, I believe you are going to be left behind. I am an
experienced developer and am using intellij with copilot to quite
successfully be more productive. The technology is advancing rapidly.
Sincerely wish my favorite IDE netbeans would recognize where the future
lies but it is losing ground and relevance quickly.

On Thu, Feb 8, 2024, 10:55 Sam Lalani  wrote:

> I was wondering if there are any plugins or any plans to add an AI
> assistant to NetBeans like Github Copilot for Visual Studio Code.
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> Virus-free.www.avast.com
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> <#m_-1926633863915113758_m_-7767374566613664935_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Ulrich Mayring]

Hi Alonso,

sure you can. And I would add that an AI anyway has a much better chance 
to do well in a meeting than writing code. And that is not a joke!


Kind regards,
Ulrich

Am 11.02.24 um 19:35 schrieb Alonso Del Arte:

 > If I could send an AI to a meeting, that would free me up to
write high quality code that beats any AI :)

That's hilarious! Can I put in my stand-up act?

AL

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 8:36 AM Claus Lüthje > wrote:


Hi Ulrich
I couldn’t agree more!
Each tool has a specific focus. It shouldn’t be mixed.
Regards
Claus

 > Am 11.02.2024 um 12:39 schrieb Ulrich Mayring
mailto:ulrich.mayr...@isys.de>>:
 >
 > 
 >>
 >> Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite. I'd be
interested to know if there are any genuine real-world cases where
AI code is useful.
 >
 > I think not for developing software. As others have pointed out,
if you are not an expert, it is dangerous, because you cannot verify
the results independently. If you are an expert, quite frankly, your
top time killer is not being too slow with boilerplate code, but too
many meetings. If I could send an AI to a meeting, that would free
me up to write high quality code that beats any AI :)
 >
 > But there are valid use cases outside of, but related to software
development. For example, I found Chat GPT hugely useful when
preparing a talk about some software development principles that I
was semi-familiar with. I could actually ask Chat GPT about concepts
and trade-offs for various techniques and it would give me very
useful opinions. I don't think I could have gotten better answers
from an experienced colleague and so, for me, Chat GPT has passed
the Turing Test there.
 >
 > As for Netbeans, how about fixing the refactoring function
(https://github.com/apache/netbeans/issues/6335
 et. al.) before
worrying about AI companions :)
 >
 > cheers,
 > Ulrich
 >
 > --
 > iSYS Software GmbH
 >
 > Ulrich Mayring | Full Stack Developer
 > Technology Lab / R
 >
 > Tel: +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-0 | Fax  +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-14
 > email: ulrich.mayr...@isys.de 
 >
 > Grillparzerstraße 10 | D-81675 München
 > www.isys.de 
 >
 > Sitz der Gesellschaft: München | HRB 111760
 > Geschäftsführer: Stefan Fischer und Max Haller
 >
 > -
 > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org

 > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org

 >
 > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
 >
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

 >


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email: ulrich.mayr...@isys.de

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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Alonso Del Arte]

>  If I could send an AI to a meeting, that would free me up to
write high quality code that beats any AI :)

That's hilarious! Can I put in my stand-up act?

AL

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 8:36 AM Claus Lüthje 
wrote:

> Hi Ulrich
> I couldn’t agree more!
> Each tool has a specific focus. It shouldn’t be mixed.
> Regards
> Claus
>
> > Am 11.02.2024 um 12:39 schrieb Ulrich Mayring :
> >
> > 
> >>
> >> Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite. I'd be interested to
> know if there are any genuine real-world cases where AI code is useful.
> >
> > I think not for developing software. As others have pointed out, if you
> are not an expert, it is dangerous, because you cannot verify the results
> independently. If you are an expert, quite frankly, your top time killer is
> not being too slow with boilerplate code, but too many meetings. If I could
> send an AI to a meeting, that would free me up to write high quality code
> that beats any AI :)
> >
> > But there are valid use cases outside of, but related to software
> development. For example, I found Chat GPT hugely useful when preparing a
> talk about some software development principles that I was semi-familiar
> with. I could actually ask Chat GPT about concepts and trade-offs for
> various techniques and it would give me very useful opinions. I don't think
> I could have gotten better answers from an experienced colleague and so,
> for me, Chat GPT has passed the Turing Test there.
> >
> > As for Netbeans, how about fixing the refactoring function (
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/issues/6335 et. al.) before worrying
> about AI companions :)
> >
> > cheers,
> > Ulrich
> >
> > --
> > iSYS Software GmbH
> >
> > Ulrich Mayring | Full Stack Developer
> > Technology Lab / R
> >
> > Tel: +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-0 | Fax  +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-14
> > email: ulrich.mayr...@isys.de
> >
> > Grillparzerstraße 10 | D-81675 München
> > www.isys.de
> >
> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: München | HRB 111760
> > Geschäftsführer: Stefan Fischer und Max Haller
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
>
>
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>
>

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Claus Lüthje]

Hi Ulrich 
I couldn’t agree more!
Each tool has a specific focus. It shouldn’t be mixed. 
Regards 
Claus

> Am 11.02.2024 um 12:39 schrieb Ulrich Mayring :
> 
> 
>> 
>> Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite. I'd be interested to know 
>> if there are any genuine real-world cases where AI code is useful.
> 
> I think not for developing software. As others have pointed out, if you are 
> not an expert, it is dangerous, because you cannot verify the results 
> independently. If you are an expert, quite frankly, your top time killer is 
> not being too slow with boilerplate code, but too many meetings. If I could 
> send an AI to a meeting, that would free me up to write high quality code 
> that beats any AI :)
> 
> But there are valid use cases outside of, but related to software 
> development. For example, I found Chat GPT hugely useful when preparing a 
> talk about some software development principles that I was semi-familiar 
> with. I could actually ask Chat GPT about concepts and trade-offs for various 
> techniques and it would give me very useful opinions. I don't think I could 
> have gotten better answers from an experienced colleague and so, for me, Chat 
> GPT has passed the Turing Test there.
> 
> As for Netbeans, how about fixing the refactoring function 
> (https://github.com/apache/netbeans/issues/6335 et. al.) before worrying 
> about AI companions :)
> 
> cheers,
> Ulrich
> 
> --
> iSYS Software GmbH
> 
> Ulrich Mayring | Full Stack Developer
> Technology Lab / R
> 
> Tel: +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-0 | Fax  +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-14
> email: ulrich.mayr...@isys.de
> 
> Grillparzerstraße 10 | D-81675 München
> www.isys.de
> 
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: München | HRB 111760
> Geschäftsführer: Stefan Fischer und Max Haller
> 
> -
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> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 


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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Ulrich Mayring]

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite. I'd be interested to 
know if there are any genuine real-world cases where AI code is useful. 


I think not for developing software. As others have pointed out, if you 
are not an expert, it is dangerous, because you cannot verify the 
results independently. If you are an expert, quite frankly, your top 
time killer is not being too slow with boilerplate code, but too many 
meetings. If I could send an AI to a meeting, that would free me up to 
write high quality code that beats any AI :)


But there are valid use cases outside of, but related to software 
development. For example, I found Chat GPT hugely useful when preparing 
a talk about some software development principles that I was 
semi-familiar with. I could actually ask Chat GPT about concepts and 
trade-offs for various techniques and it would give me very useful 
opinions. I don't think I could have gotten better answers from an 
experienced colleague and so, for me, Chat GPT has passed the Turing 
Test there.


As for Netbeans, how about fixing the refactoring function 
(https://github.com/apache/netbeans/issues/6335 et. al.) before worrying 
about AI companions :)


cheers,
Ulrich

--
iSYS Software GmbH

Ulrich Mayring | Full Stack Developer
Technology Lab / R

Tel: +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-0 | Fax  +49 (0) 89 46 23 28-14
email: ulrich.mayr...@isys.de

Grillparzerstraße 10 | D-81675 München
www.isys.de

Sitz der Gesellschaft: München | HRB 111760
Geschäftsführer: Stefan Fischer und Max Haller

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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Stefan Holst]

I think one should develop tools that help you with using APIs. Autocompletion is one nlp technique we all like. If the IDE got to a point where you add a nb platform to it and it made suggestion on semantic matches rather than syntax, many would use it. I think this could help to speed up familiarizing with an api a lot!Inference can be done offline. So perhaps a tool that downloads a model from huggingface and then has an ‘automated’ fine tuning that happens locally would raise less of a security concern. Yes training is computationally costly. But so was auto-completion when it got introduced. StefanAm 11.02.2024 um 02:18 schrieb Owen Thomas :On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 at 11:42, Andreas Reichel  wrote:On Sun, 2024-02-11 at 09:50 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 at 13:46, Andreas Reichel  wrote:Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.What do you mean when you say this?What I meant was: it amplifies experience and skills. If you are experienced it will make you faster because you know when to trust and use it. If you are inexperienced it will harm you because it can pretend providing "solutions", which actually may be harmful or wrong.Yes, I understand that perhaps it does help one who is already experienced leverage off the experience of others to quickly come to an optimal solution to a particular problem. Perhaps I would agree to using an AI that makes suggestions without "learning" from the code it is being exposed to. I think I would surely benefit from some assistance too, but I am afraid that an AI algorithm may suggest what it found in my code to a wider developer community, thus leaking my own work to a wider world out of my control.That is a different and very valid and interesting angle to look at it: what guarantees are there when its integrated into your UI, which opens ALL your code? None and nothing! They just will say "sorry" when eventually caught and that's it.I would recommend Netbeans think about this scenario. I believe that the point I make in this reply above about preventing the AI from being trained on the code it is exposed to in a particular user's IDE would be considered valuable to many. I would say, when you believed in proprietary code then IDE AI integration was not for you even when it worked.I'm not averse to publishing my code and being attributed for it - that's why I do this. Hence, I would be flattered if I saw snippets of my published code being suggested back to me by an AI, but I wouldn't be as happy if I saw unpublished work appearing. I will steer clear of an AI looking at the code in my IDE for now and wait a while perhaps until this AI stuff matures; let others make the mistakes that I hopefully avoid. :) Although the same concern applies to GitHub already. So unless you host by yourself strictly (as we do, except for what we publish as OpenSource) this concern should not be new.Just as well because I have no code in GitHub.  Owen.
Clique Space(TM). Anima ex machina.Find out more on cliquespace.net.

Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Owen Thomas]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 at 11:42, Andreas Reichel <
andr...@manticore-projects.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 2024-02-11 at 09:50 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:
>
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 at 13:46, Andreas Reichel <
> andr...@manticore-projects.com> wrote:
>
> Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.
>
>
> What do you mean when you say this?
>
>
> What I meant was: it amplifies experience and skills. If you are
> experienced it will make you faster because you know when to trust and use
> it. If you are inexperienced it will harm you because it can pretend
> providing "solutions", which actually may be harmful or wrong.
>

Yes, I understand that perhaps it does help one who is already experienced
leverage off the experience of others to quickly come to an optimal
solution to a particular problem.

 Perhaps I would agree to using an AI that makes suggestions without
"learning" from the code it is being exposed to.


>
>
> I think I would surely benefit from some assistance too, but I am afraid
> that an AI algorithm may suggest what it found in my code to a wider
> developer community, thus leaking my own work to a wider world out of my
> control.
>
>
> That is a different and very valid and interesting angle to look at it:
> what guarantees are there when its integrated into your UI, which opens ALL
> your code? None and nothing! They just will say "sorry" when eventually
> caught and that's it.
>

I would recommend Netbeans think about this scenario. I believe that the
point I make in this reply above about preventing the AI from being trained
on the code it is exposed to in a particular user's IDE would be considered
valuable to many.


> I would say, when you believed in proprietary code then IDE AI integration
> was not for you even when it worked.
>

I'm not averse to publishing my code and being attributed for it - that's
why I do this. Hence, I would be flattered if I saw snippets of my
published code being suggested back to me by an AI, but I wouldn't be as
happy if I saw unpublished work appearing. I will steer clear of an AI
looking at the code in my IDE for now and wait a while perhaps until this
AI stuff matures; let others make the mistakes that I hopefully avoid. :)


> Although the same concern applies to GitHub already. So unless you host by
> yourself strictly (as we do, except for what we publish as OpenSource) this
> concern should not be new.
>

Just as well because I have no code in GitHub.

  Owen.

>
Clique Space(TM). Anima ex machina.
Find out more on cliquespace.net.

Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Andreas Reichel]

Good Morning Owen and All,

On Sun, 2024-02-11 at 09:50 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:
>
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 at 13:46, Andreas Reichel
>  wrote:
> > Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.
> >
>
> What do you mean when you say this?

What I meant was: it amplifies experience and skills. If you are
experienced it will make you faster because you know when to trust and
use it. If you are inexperienced it will harm you because it can
pretend providing "solutions", which actually may be harmful or wrong.

>
> I think I would surely benefit from some assistance too, but I am
> afraid that an AI algorithm may suggest what it found in my code to a
> wider developer community, thus leaking my own work to a wider world
> out of my control.

That is a different and very valid and interesting angle to look at it:
what guarantees are there when its integrated into your UI, which opens
ALL your code? None and nothing! They just will say "sorry" when
eventually caught and that's it.
I would say, when you believed in proprietary code then IDE AI
integration was not for you even when it worked.

Although the same concern applies to GitHub already. So unless you host
by yourself strictly (as we do, except for what we publish as
OpenSource) this concern should not be new.

Cheers
Andreas

Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Owen Thomas]

Hi Andreas.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 at 13:46, Andreas Reichel <
andr...@manticore-projects.com> wrote:

> Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.
>

What do you mean when you say this?

I think I would surely benefit from some assistance too, but I am afraid
that an AI algorithm may suggest what it found in my code to a wider
developer community, thus leaking my own work to a wider world out of my
control.

Would I be one of the "others" as you define them above?

Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Pieter van den Hombergh]

I wholeheartedly agree with all remarks.
Your expertise needs to be excellent in the field to be able to have any
benefits of AI. Then it may take the brunt work away but needs strict
surveillance. Like a captain versus a bootsman.

met vriendelijke groet
Pieter van den Hombergh

Op za 10 feb 2024 20:06 schreef Sam Lalani :

> Thank you for the responses.  I would use it like I currently use ChatGPT,
> which is to quickly give me small functions that I can edit to get exactly
> what I want, instead of spending the time to do it myself from scratch.  It
> saves minutes every time I use it and overall, it ends up saving me hours.
> If it was integrated into NetBeans then I envision it taking even less
> time, but I know that I would still have to edit it to get exactly what I
> need.  It could also potentially help in debugging or searching for through
> my projects to get what I have already written before and use it in the
> current project.  Again, I understand that I would need to tweak it for my
> situation.
>
>
>
> Hopefully soon we can have this capability in NetBeans, instead of me
> having to start using another IDE just for this functionality.  I have been
> using NetBeans for over 20 years and I love it and would like to continue
> using it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Andreas Reichel 
> *Sent:* Friday, February 9, 2024 7:46 PM
> *To:* users@netbeans.apache.org
> *Subject:* Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 12:17 +1000, Peter Kirkham wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite.
>
>
>
> No, you are not. It CAN be extremely useful WHEN you know exactly what you
> want and are an expert in your topic. THEN you can use the AI generated
> template and quickly tweak it until it works. Like a secretary.
>
> This is great when you don't know the API or programming language. For
> example, this dynamic TOC side bar was done by ChatGPT within 30
> iterations: https://manticore-projects.com/JSQLFormatter/javadoc.html --
> it was great because I don't write JavaScript code or Website stuff.
>
>
>
> But when you don't know the solution and can't validate the outcome, then
> stay away from AI.
>
> My former example "RGBA ByteSwapping" brought up useful AVX/SSE methods,
> but filled the bytes completely wrong -- and kept filling it wrongly
> continuously.
>
> This is worse than "phantom libraries", which don't exist because it
> appears to be working but produces wrong, potentially dangerous results.
>
>
>
> Its a tool, SELECTIVELY useful for the right purpose and harmful otherwise.
>
> Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> Virus-free.www.avast.com
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>

RE: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Sam Lalani]

Thank you for the responses.  I would use it like I currently use ChatGPT, 
which is to quickly give me small functions that I can edit to get exactly what 
I want, instead of spending the time to do it myself from scratch.  It saves 
minutes every time I use it and overall, it ends up saving me hours.  If it was 
integrated into NetBeans then I envision it taking even less time, but I know 
that I would still have to edit it to get exactly what I need.  It could also 
potentially help in debugging or searching for through my projects to get what 
I have already written before and use it in the current project.  Again, I 
understand that I would need to tweak it for my situation.



Hopefully soon we can have this capability in NetBeans, instead of me having to 
start using another IDE just for this functionality.  I have been using 
NetBeans for over 20 years and I love it and would like to continue using it.



From: Andreas Reichel 
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 7:46 PM
To: users@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans



On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 12:17 +1000, Peter Kirkham wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite.



No, you are not. It CAN be extremely useful WHEN you know exactly what you want 
and are an expert in your topic. THEN you can use the AI generated template and 
quickly tweak it until it works. Like a secretary.

This is great when you don't know the API or programming language. For example, 
this dynamic TOC side bar was done by ChatGPT within 30 iterations: 
https://manticore-projects.com/JSQLFormatter/javadoc.html -- it was great 
because I don't write JavaScript code or Website stuff.



But when you don't know the solution and can't validate the outcome, then stay 
away from AI.

My former example "RGBA ByteSwapping" brought up useful AVX/SSE methods, but 
filled the bytes completely wrong -- and kept filling it wrongly continuously.

This is worse than "phantom libraries", which don't exist because it appears to 
be working but produces wrong, potentially dangerous results.



Its a tool, SELECTIVELY useful for the right purpose and harmful otherwise.

Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.



Cheers

Andreas





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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Tilman Hausherr]

On 10.02.2024 03:17, Peter Kirkham wrote:
When the AI hype train was just getting rolling last year I thought I 
would try this out to write a basic but non-trivial algorithm.


Last year I asked ChatGPT to refactor code for a run length encoder. The 
refactored code failed the unit test 


https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PDFBOX-4932

Tilman

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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Scott Palmer]

> On Feb 9, 2024, at 9:46 PM, Andreas Reichel  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 12:17 +1000, Peter Kirkham wrote:
>> Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite.
> 
> No, you are not. It CAN be extremely useful WHEN you know exactly what you 
> want and are an expert in your topic. THEN you can use the AI generated 
> template and quickly tweak it until it works. Like a secretary.


I’ve used Codeium (it’s free and decent) with VScode and found it can be a time 
saver by finishing off a loop or switch etc. based on patterns it finds in the 
code.  For example it will find that if my cases in a switch match some 
constant strings defined elsewhere in the code, it will simply offer to finish 
off all the cases with the remaining items from that set of strings.  Doing a 
lot of the boilerplate in a much smarter version of autocomplete.
For generating “original” code it often misses details and definitely needs to 
be tweaked, but still the template that it comes up with saves time… as long as 
you know enough to double check what it did and fix the remaining issues.

Scott

Re: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Andreas Reichel]

On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 12:17 +1000, Peter Kirkham wrote:
> Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite.

No, you are not. It CAN be extremely useful WHEN you know exactly what
you want and are an expert in your topic. THEN you can use the AI
generated template and quickly tweak it until it works. Like a
secretary.
This is great when you don't know the API or programming language. For
example, this dynamic TOC side bar was done by ChatGPT within 30
iterations: https://manticore-projects.com/JSQLFormatter/javadoc.html -
- it was great because I don't write JavaScript code or Website stuff.

But when you don't know the solution and can't validate the outcome,
then stay away from AI.
My former example "RGBA ByteSwapping" brought up useful AVX/SSE
methods, but filled the bytes completely wrong -- and kept filling it
wrongly continuously.
This is worse than "phantom libraries", which don't exist because it
appears to be working but produces wrong, potentially dangerous
results.

Its a tool, SELECTIVELY useful for the right purpose and harmful
otherwise.
Smart people will become smarter and faster using it. Others won't.

Cheers
Andreas

RE: Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Peter Kirkham]

When the AI hype train was just getting rolling last year I thought I 
would try this out to write a basic but non-trivial algorithm. I wanted 
to implement a method to get the nodes and weights for Gauss-Laguerre 
quadrature integration for the Gamma function for any number of nodes, 
rather than just using a hard-coded series of arrays for the numbers. I 
didn't need to do this (the hard-coded array approach works) but I 
thought this was an interesting test because it's not an everyday garden 
topic that the AI will just be able to cut and paste from Stack 
Overflow. On the other hand it does have a known solution so it can be 
shown whether the AI solution is any good or not.


The AI was able to generate a plausible looking solution very quickly 
and confidently. Which was, at first glance, impressive. Wow. It 
compiled first time and ran. Syntactically it was great. And that is 
where the positives end. The code wasn't just wrong in terms of being 
close, but inaccurate. It was just gibberish. The results weren't even 
vaguely in the ballpark. People talk about AI being able to pass 
university exam level questions... what a load of rubbish. This was 
clearly plagarised so badly that the 'student' submitting the answer was 
clueless that their answer was even wrong.


The AI had no idea -- and why would it. It is nothing more than a large 
neural net that has produced a sequence of tokens based on another input 
sequence of tokens. At its heart it is nothing more than a sophisticated 
regression algorithm based on a series of data points which were used to 
train it. What we are doing is the equivalent of deriving a line of best 
fit through a cloud of data points and then asking the algorithm to 
extrapolate based on that regression equation. It works -- of course it 
does, it's just an equation -- but fundamentally it is grossly 
misleading. Any decently educated person knows that extrapolation is 
fraught with error. And that is all AI is (with the techniques used 
today). A sophisticated extrapolation engine. Anyone who says otherwise 
is deluding themselves.


Andreas is, in my view, completely right. If you rely on AI for coding 
you will spend more time correcting the code than you would writing it 
yourself. More than that, the code appears very neat, so the errors are 
not obvious at first. Writing the code yourself will also bring you 
closer to it, and that familiarity will breed insight that AI never had 
to start with and certainly cannot impart to its users. Why would you 
want to give up that side benefit from writing your own code?


AI is, in my view, one of the more dangerous fads to come out recently. 
Not necessarily because of the harm it might do itself, but because it 
drives a false sense of security amongst those that do not understand it 
-- which is to say most of the world, as there are very few people I've 
met who are able to explain to me how it works, even on a basic level. 
Perversely this could lead to a loss of knowledge and intelligence 
amongst the non-machine population.


Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just a modern-day Luddite. I'd be interested to 
know if there are any genuine real-world cases where AI code is useful. 
I was thinking that maybe boilerplate code, like when writing GUI etc. 
but NetBeans Matisse already has that covered just fine. How would AI 
improve this? It wouldn't have a chance improving on many of the 
algorithms I write for solving engineering problems for the simple 
reason that many of those algorithms never existed before I wrote them 
and I'm proud to admit that I had to fall back on real intelligence, and 
not artificial intelligence, to write them :-)


Anyway, an interesting topic!

Peter

On 2024/02/08 16:17:51 Andreas Reichel wrote:
> On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 11:16 -0500, Alonso Del Arte wrote:
> > There isn't, but probably soon there will be. If it's built-in, it
> > better come with an off switch. But if BlueJ adds an AI assistant,
> > then we're really in trouble.
>
> I have tried them all on IntelliJ and I can tell you: they are rubbish!
> OpenAI is great for looking up JAVA or C API efficiently and for this
> case you have a 50% chance to get something useful (although 50% chance
> of getting completely wrong information, like Java Libraries that don't
> exist.)
>
> But in the IDE it is just annoying. You will spend more time correcting
> the suggestions than writing code.
>
> Example: ask for a Java Example of Prophet Time Series Forecast! Or ask
> for a sample of RGBA to ARGB Byte Swapping using SSE or AVX.
> The given information will be TOTALLY wrong and fantasy!
>
> Cheers
> Andreas
>
>
>

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Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Andreas Reichel]

On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 11:16 -0500, Alonso Del Arte wrote:
> There isn't, but probably soon there will be. If it's built-in, it
> better come with an off switch. But if BlueJ adds an AI assistant,
> then we're really in trouble.

I have tried them all on IntelliJ and I can tell you: they are rubbish!
OpenAI is great for looking up JAVA or C API efficiently and for this
case you have a 50% chance to get something useful (although 50% chance
of getting completely wrong information, like Java Libraries that don't
exist.)

But in the IDE it is just annoying. You will spend more time correcting
the suggestions than writing code.

Example: ask for a Java Example of Prophet Time Series Forecast! Or ask
for a sample of RGBA to ARGB Byte Swapping using SSE or AVX.
The given information will be TOTALLY wrong and fantasy!

Cheers
Andreas 

Re: AI assistant for NetBeans

[Alonso Del Arte]

There isn't, but probably soon there will be. If it's built-in, it better
come with an off switch. But if BlueJ adds an AI assistant, then we're
really in trouble.

Al

On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 10:55 AM Sam Lalani 
wrote:

> I was wondering if there are any plugins or any plans to add an AI
> assistant to NetBeans like Github Copilot for Visual Studio Code.
>
>
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AI assistant for NetBeans

[Sam Lalani]

I was wondering if there are any plugins or any plans to add an AI assistant
to NetBeans like Github Copilot for Visual Studio Code.



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