Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[John Hardin]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2010, Karsten Br�ckelmann wrote:


On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 14:28 -0700, John Hardin wrote:

On Thu, 7 Oct 2010, Karsten Bräckelmann wrote:

It's not a matter of missing "information" forced onto each and any
post. Ultimately, it boils down to the subscribers' clue level, in
particular understanding email and mailing lists.


I was going to suggest the footer should read:

 To unsubscribe from this mailing list see the list-unsubscribe: header


Well, this still would be an intrusive disclaimer. And *really* not
necessary with this list and its audience, as history shows.


Humor, Karsten; humor. :)

But I believe we already crossed the line from "meta" to OT. ;)  This 
braindead message munging won't happen on this list.


Oh, agreed.

--
 John Hardin KA7OHZhttp://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
 jhar...@impsec.orgFALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhar...@impsec.org
 key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C  AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
---
  USMC Rules of Gunfighting #7: In ten years nobody will remember the
  details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who
  lived.
---
 71 days until TRON Legacy

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Karsten Bräckelmann]

On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 14:28 -0700, John Hardin wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Oct 2010, Karsten Bräckelmann wrote:
> > It's not a matter of missing "information" forced onto each and any
> > post. Ultimately, it boils down to the subscribers' clue level, in
> > particular understanding email and mailing lists.
> 
> I was going to suggest the footer should read:
> 
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list see the list-unsubscribe: header

Well, this still would be an intrusive disclaimer. And *really* not
necessary with this list and its audience, as history shows.

With other lists populated by non tech-savvy folks, it won't work
either. You lost your audience by referring to a "header". You would not
assume people unable to comprehend a verbose "how to unsub" disclaimer,
and still manage to send it straight to the list, to grok that, would
you?

Yes, I have seen helpful replies along the lines of "the next paragraph
tells you how to unsub". The full sender's text. The next paragraph
would be the list-added disclaimer -- of course, also part of the OP's
unsub request in the first place.


But I believe we already crossed the line from "meta" to OT. ;)  This
braindead message munging won't happen on this list.


-- 
char *t="\10pse\0r\0dtu...@ghno\x4e\xc8\x79\xf4\xab\x51\x8a\x10\xf4\xf4\xc4";
main(){ char h,m=h=*t++,*x=t+2*h,c,i,l=*x,s=0; for (i=0;i>=1)||!t[s+h]){ putchar(t[s]);h=m;s=0; }}}

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[John Hardin]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2010, Karsten Br?ckelmann wrote:


On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 11:11 +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:

before I unsubscribe I should note that the incoming messages from this list
should have an Unsubscribe / How-to-get-help footer at teh bottom of their
messages.


It's not a matter of missing "information" forced onto each and any
post. Ultimately, it boils down to the subscribers' clue level, in
particular understanding email and mailing lists.


I was going to suggest the footer should read:

  To unsubscribe from this mailing list see the list-unsubscribe: header


--
 John Hardin KA7OHZhttp://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
 jhar...@impsec.orgFALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhar...@impsec.org
 key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C  AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
---
  Gun Control enables genocide while doing little to reduce crime.
---
 71 days until TRON Legacy

The SORBS problem explained

[Martin Gregorie]

There's a good article just popped up on The Register about the SORBS
problem. It mostly seems to have come from a conversation with Michelle
Sullivan. It gives details of what happened and why and points out that
the DOS attack happened to coincide with the problem but didn't cause
it.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/07/sorbs_cockup/


Martin

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Benny Pedersen]

On tor 07 okt 2010 22:19:29 CEST, Karsten Bräckelmann wrote


It's not a matter of missing "information" forced onto each and any
post. Ultimately, it boils down to the subscribers' clue level, in
particular understanding email and mailing lists.


i see it as subscribers missing buttoms in there so smart gui to  
handle rfc2919


most so smart gui have enough buttoms to confuse the problem :)

--
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Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Karsten Bräckelmann]

On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 11:11 +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> before I unsubscribe I should note that the incoming messages from this list 
> should have an Unsubscribe / How-to-get-help footer at teh bottom of their 
> messages.

Please tell me I am not the only one to see the irony.


I can't even remember the last time I've seen an unsub request straight
to this list. I do, however, frequently see them on some lists despite
adding such a footer.

It's not a matter of missing "information" forced onto each and any
post. Ultimately, it boils down to the subscribers' clue level, in
particular understanding email and mailing lists.


-- 
char *t="\10pse\0r\0dtu...@ghno\x4e\xc8\x79\xf4\xab\x51\x8a\x10\xf4\xf4\xc4";
main(){ char h,m=h=*t++,*x=t+2*h,c,i,l=*x,s=0; for (i=0;i>=1)||!t[s+h]){ putchar(t[s]);h=m;s=0; }}}

Re: How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Alexandre Chapellon]

Le jeudi 07 octobre 2010 à 16:33 +0200, Ralf Hildebrandt a écrit :

> * Marc Perkel :
> >  Got this listing on sorbs:
> > 
> > SORBS DNSBL  127.0.0.2 "Aggregate
> > zone See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?65.49.42.106";
> > http://www.de.sorbs.net/overview.shtml
> 
> I feel your pain.
>  
> > Went to their web site and can't find a way to remove it. Their web
> > site is barely responsive and there doesn't seem to be a removal
> > tool. Anyone else having this problem or can give me some insight as
> > to what is going on?
> 
> No idea. We also got listed and can't even find out why. It says "last
> occurence somedate.in.2006" - WTF?
> 

At least they give a time window :) Try to know why you're listed at
barracuda: This is true pain!
Indeed no IP should be blacklisted undefinitely... at least without
checking regularily.


-- 
Follow us on: twitter https://www.twitter.com/manainternet

Re: SORBS is definitely hosed today

[Karsten Bräckelmann]

On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 08:29 -1000, Alexandre Chapellon wrote:
> I can't see any problem right now with SORBS... is it related to a
> specific Sorbs DNSBL?
> 
> Le jeudi 07 octobre 2010 à 09:09 -0700, Marc Perkel a écrit : 
> > Not sure what is happening but they appear to be down and when they 
> > are up they have a lot of people blacklists that shouldn't be. I noticed 
> > that this list uses sorbs and the admins might want to disable it.
> > 
> > I don't know what's happening but I wish them the best.

http://isc.sans.edu/diary.html?storyid=9685

In particular, note the second comment, by Michelle.

 "We have experienced a DDoS attack today which was 'smart' we have
  mitigated it so the site is now operational if a user waits about
  10-15 seconds for the response.

  We have had reports that we have a database corruption, there is no
  evidence of that but to be safe we have emptied the DNS zone files and
  the rsync files until we can check the database for any possible
  errors. We expect this to be complete within 24 hours."


-- 
char *t="\10pse\0r\0dtu...@ghno\x4e\xc8\x79\xf4\xab\x51\x8a\x10\xf4\xf4\xc4";
main(){ char h,m=h=*t++,*x=t+2*h,c,i,l=*x,s=0; for (i=0;i>=1)||!t[s+h]){ putchar(t[s]);h=m;s=0; }}}

Re: SORBS is definitely hosed today

[Alexandre Chapellon]

I can't see any problem right now with SORBS... is it related to a
specific Sorbs DNSBL?

Le jeudi 07 octobre 2010 à 09:09 -0700, Marc Perkel a écrit :

> Not sure what is happening but they appear to be down and when they 
> are up they have a lot of people blacklists that shouldn't be. I noticed 
> that this list uses sorbs and the admins might want to disable it.
> 
> I don't know what's happening but I wish them the best.
> 


-- 
Follow us on: twitter https://www.twitter.com/manainternet

SORBS is definitely hosed today

[Marc Perkel]

 Not sure what is happening but they appear to be down and when they 
are up they have a lot of people blacklists that shouldn't be. I noticed 
that this list uses sorbs and the admins might want to disable it.


I don't know what's happening but I wish them the best.

Re: How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Marc Perkel]

On 10/7/2010 7:56 AM, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:

* Marc Perkel:

  Got this listing on sorbs:

On 07.10.10 16:33, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

No idea. We also got listed and can't even find out why. It says "last
occurence somedate.in.2006" - WTF?

our ranges that have been removed from DUHL years ago got there again.
Probably old records re-appeared because of something...



Sure is screwing me up. Got several customers whose email is bouncing 
when we are forward it as good. I'm disabling all sorbs tests on my end 
to prevent false positives.


--
Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
supp...@junkemailfilter.com
http://www.junkemailfilter.com
Junk Email Filter dot com
415-992-3400

Re: How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

> * Marc Perkel :
> >  Got this listing on sorbs:

On 07.10.10 16:33, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> No idea. We also got listed and can't even find out why. It says "last
> occurence somedate.in.2006" - WTF?

our ranges that have been removed from DUHL years ago got there again.
Probably old records re-appeared because of something... 
-- 
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges. 

Re: How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

* Marc Perkel :
>  Got this listing on sorbs:
> 
> SORBS DNSBL  127.0.0.2 "Aggregate
> zone See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?65.49.42.106";
> http://www.de.sorbs.net/overview.shtml

I feel your pain.
 
> Went to their web site and can't find a way to remove it. Their web
> site is barely responsive and there doesn't seem to be a removal
> tool. Anyone else having this problem or can give me some insight as
> to what is going on?

No idea. We also got listed and can't even find out why. It says "last
occurence somedate.in.2006" - WTF?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de

Re: How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Marc Perkel]

On 10/7/2010 6:42 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

Marc Perkel wrote:


   Got this listing on sorbs:

SORBS DNSBL  127.0.0.2 "Aggregate
zone See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?65.49.42.106";
http://www.de.sorbs.net/overview.shtml


host 106.42.49.65.dnsbl.sorbs.net.
106.42.49.65.dnsbl.sorbs.net has address 127.0.0.10

127.0.0.10 ->  dynamic address

Something's clearly not quite right at SORBS.



/Per Jessen, Zürich




The Sorbs web site is broken too. Can't get to any delisting pages. 
Running very slow and lots of errors. Sorbs is definitely broken today.


--
Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
supp...@junkemailfilter.com
http://www.junkemailfilter.com
Junk Email Filter dot com
415-992-3400

Re: How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Per Jessen]

Marc Perkel wrote:

>   Got this listing on sorbs:
> 
> SORBS DNSBL  127.0.0.2 "Aggregate
> zone See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?65.49.42.106";
> http://www.de.sorbs.net/overview.shtml
> 

host 106.42.49.65.dnsbl.sorbs.net.
106.42.49.65.dnsbl.sorbs.net has address 127.0.0.10

127.0.0.10 -> dynamic address

Something's clearly not quite right at SORBS. 



/Per Jessen, Zürich

How do I get delisted from SORBS? [OT]

[Marc Perkel]

 Got this listing on sorbs:

SORBS DNSBL  127.0.0.2 "Aggregate zone 
See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?65.49.42.106"; 
http://www.de.sorbs.net/overview.shtml



Went to their web site and can't find a way to remove it. Their web site 
is barely responsive and there doesn't seem to be a removal tool. Anyone 
else having this problem or can give me some insight as to what is going 
on?


--
Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
supp...@junkemailfilter.com
http://www.junkemailfilter.com
Junk Email Filter dot com
415-992-3400

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Mark Martinec]

> On 07.10.10 13:28, Giampaolo Tomassoni wrote:
> > I see what you mean, but, well, I personally would vote "no" to this.
> > 
> > I'm really tired of all that mailing lists which can't stay from
> > attaching their own banners and general hints at the message tail.

I fully agree.

> not mentioning breakage of e.g. DKIM.
> btw, not to be off-topic at least once, can SA comply with this?

Not breaking DKIM signature? Yes, on both accounts:

- the users@spamassassin.apache.org mailing list does not break signatures
  (thankfully it does not modify Subject or add footers/signatures);

- DKIM signatures in messages passed through SpamAssassin are normally
  not invalidated, unless one configures SA to modify Subject or to add
  a report to the body of a message.


Mark

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

> > Furthermore, I suggest having a footer with unsubscription / help
> > information in addition to the header because the header may not be
> > visible, not all E-mail clients may display it, and people may
> > otherwise be unaware of it. I have often seen some "unsubscribe"
> > messages sent to mailing lists and putting the ubsubscription
> > information in the footer greatly reduces that.

- the unsubscribe instructions are in the subscription confirming e-mail
  (you must send subscription request and confirm it back to get that mail)

- I've seen unsubscribe requests even in lists that do have such footer

On 07.10.10 13:28, Giampaolo Tomassoni wrote:
> I see what you mean, but, well, I personally would vote "no" to this.
> 
> I'm really tired of all that mailing lists which can't stay from attaching
> their own banners and general hints at the message tail.

not mentioning breakage of e.g. DKIM.

btw, not to be off-topic at least once, can SA comply with this?

-- 
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted,
then used against you. 

RE: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Giampaolo Tomassoni]

> Furthermore, I suggest having a footer with unsubscription / help
> information
> in addition to the header because the header may not be visible, not
> all E-
> mail clients may display it, and people may otherwise be unaware of it.
> I have
> often seen some "unsubscribe" messages sent to mailing lists and
> putting the
> ubsubscription information in the footer greatly reduces that.

I see what you mean, but, well, I personally would vote "no" to this.

I'm really tired of all that mailing lists which can't stay from attaching
their own banners and general hints at the message tail.

After all, the SA users list is not for the faint of heart and people (like
you do, in example) should at least know how to unsubscribe from an
ezmlm-managed list...

Giampaolo


> 
> > so it all comes back to PEBKAC.
> 
> I know how to unsubscribe - that's not the problem.
> 
> Regards,
> 
>   Shlomi Fish
> 
> --
> -
> Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
> Optimising Code for Speed - http://shlom.in/optimise
> 
>  She's a hot chick. But she smokes.
>  She can smoke as long as she's smokin'.
> 
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post -
> http://shlom.in/reply .

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Mathias Homann]

On Thursday 07 October 2010 11:46:58 Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
> On 07.10.10 11:11, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > before I unsubscribe I should note that the incoming messages from this
> > list should have an Unsubscribe / How-to-get-help footer at teh bottom
> > of their messages.
> 
> They have standardized header:
> 
> list-unsubscribe: 
> 
> Don't blame the mailing list just because your mailer is not capable of
> processing that...


oh, but the kmail that shlomi's using is perfectly capable to process list 
headers... all you need is a filter to move mails from lists into separate 
folders, one per list, and then tell kmail that those folders contain mailing 
lists.

so it all comes back to PEBKAC.

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

On 07.10.10 11:11, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> before I unsubscribe I should note that the incoming messages from this list 
> should have an Unsubscribe / How-to-get-help footer at teh bottom of their 
> messages.

They have standardized header:

list-unsubscribe: 

Don't blame the mailing list just because your mailer is not capable of
processing that...

-- 
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. 

Re: [Meta] Unsubscribe / help footer at the bottom of messages to this list.

[Benny Pedersen]

On tor 07 okt 2010 11:11:09 CEST, Shlomi Fish wrote

before I unsubscribe I should note that the incoming messages from this list
should have an Unsubscribe / How-to-get-help footer at teh bottom of their
messages.


http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2919

eg using squirrelmail, roundcube, horde imp, it works

--
xpoint http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html