Re: Supposed bounces

[Noel Butler]

On 14/07/2022 04:24, Grant Taylor via users wrote:


On 7/13/22 12:19 PM, @lbutlr wrote:

So, a supposed bounce from also three years ago. And that bounce did 
not come from my mail server as I have never run qmail. No IP 
addresses, no Received headers, nothing that could possibly be used to 
figure out what is going on here.


I think this is a courtesy message from the mailing list saying that a 
message that it tried to send to you was bounced.


It provides a copy of (part of) the message for your convenience.

Nothing about that implies that you sent the message that bounced. 
Instead it is extremely likely that you did not originate the message 
that bounced.


ezmlm has been long brain dead, I particularly like its messages saying 
its reject message but never tells you the actual 5xx code.


I aint about to go through 2019's logs to find out why either :)

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Re: Supposed bounces

[Grant Taylor via users]

On 7/13/22 12:19 PM, @lbutlr wrote:
So, a supposed bounce from also three years ago. And that bounce 
did not come from my mail server as I have never run qmail. No IP 
addresses, no Received headers, nothing that could possibly be used 
to figure out what is going on here.


I think this is a courtesy message from the mailing list saying that a 
message that it tried to send to you was bounced.


It provides a copy of (part of) the message for your convenience.

Nothing about that implies that you sent the message that bounced. 
Instead it is extremely likely that you did not originate the message 
that bounced.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Supposed bounces

[@lbutlr]

On 2022 Jul 12, at 13:08, users-h...@spamassassin.apache.org wrote:
> Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
> users@spamassassin.apache.org mailing list.
> 
> 
> Messages to you from the users mailing list seem to
> have been bouncing. I've attached a copy of the first bounce
> message I received.

... 

> --- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received.
> 
> Return-Path: <>
> Received: (qmail 78834 invoked for bounce); 7 Oct 2019 19:56:32 -
> Date: 7 Oct 2019 19:56:32 -
> From: mailer-dae...@apache.org
> To: users-return-1212...@spamassassin.apache.org
> Subject: failure notice

So, a supposed bounce from also three years ago. And that bounce did not come 
from my mail server as I have never run qmail. No IP addresses, no Received 
headers, nothing that could possibly be used to figure out what is going on 
here.

-- 
Lady Astor: "If you were my husband I'd give you poison."
Churchill: "If you were my wife, I'd drink it."

Re: getting waring from spamassassin.apache.org

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2022-07-13 09:17:41 -0400, Bill Cole wrote:
> On 2022-07-13 at 05:14:19 UTC-0400 (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:14:19 +0200)
> Philipp Ewald 
> is rumored to have said:
> 
> > Yesterdax i got a waring, because of a bounced massage.
> > Is this normal thats this Waring was from 2021?
> 
> I do not know what caused it, but I also got 2 such notices which
> both were from 2020.
> 
> My guess would be that there was a stuck mail queue of such notices
> somewhere in the Apache mailing list infrastructure that got unstuck
> somehow. Possibly related to a migration project for mailing lists that the
> ASF Infra team has warned us was in progress a few weeks ago.

I also got several such notices, but for subversion.apache.org
mailing-lists, from 2019 and 2020. So indeed, this seems to be
global to Apache mailing-lists.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: My emails are blocked when I ask for help (murder!) In need help!

[Bill Cole]

On 2022-07-13 at 09:08:23 UTC-0400 (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:08:23 +0300)
Tomas Ukkonen 
is rumored to have said:


Hello

I'm asking for help online when I'm being murdered!


Hyperbole is not your friend.

This list is NOT a general support forum. It is specifically for users 
of the Apache Software Foundation's SpamAssassin software, an open 
source Perl framework  designed to classify email as 'spam' or 'ham' 
(i.e. NOT spam) based on a mix of techniques including purely local 
rules.


If any of that is new information for you, it is unlikely that you can 
get help here.


Police investigation showed there are people who want to murder me and 
hospital gives
me experimental toxic treatment without reason. I cannot survive 
this treatment.


No one on this mailing list can solve that problem. It seems that your 
local police would be your best avenue for help with a murde3r in 
progress, particularly if they have recognized the crime as real.


When I ask for help online using emails spam systems are blocking 
me from asking for help.


Please provide an example that shows relevance to ASF SpamAssassin. No 
one on this mailing list can help you with supposed improper blocking if 
you don't provide a specific detailed example: a full message that was 
rejected and whatever rejection message you received. If SpamAssassin 
was not involved in the rejection, all we can do is sympathize and wish 
you good luck.


1) spam blocking systems admins are supporting my murder when they 
block me from asking for help. They act like criminals?


Hyperbole is not your friend.

The majority of people reading this mailing list are sysadmins who put a 
great deal of care into how they handle email, with our greatest concern 
being the risk of "false positive" classifications that prevent wanted 
mail (ham) from reaching our users. No one wants that to happen and we 
largely can't know when it happens unless users tell us. Mail sysadmins 
do not look at our users' email unless our users ask us to.


Under most civilized jurisdictions, criminal liability requires 
knowledge of a crime and some form of criminal intent in enabling that 
crime. It would be absurd to blame sysadmins for mail rejections that we 
do not specifically know of, related to a crime which we do not know 
anything about, even its existence.


2) I don't do commercial email but only ask for help so it is not even 
spam.


The most widely accepted definitions of 'spam' amongst people running 
mail systems do not require commerciality. My favorite shorthand has 
always been that spam is "unsolicited bulk email." The details of what 
that means can be a bit arcane but what it boils down to is that if my 
direct users did not ask for your email and your email is not 
specifically written for particular human readers by a human author who 
selected the recipients thoughtfully, it is almost certainly spam.


I can't say whether your email is properly spam because I have no idea 
how you selected your recipients. However, SpamAssassin has a large 
collection of tests for mail which it can *correlate* to messages being 
spam (or ham) and while it cannot determine sender intent, it can make 
very good guesses based on patterns in content and mechanisms of 
constyructiuon and transport.



(in many legislations you can even do some crimes to stop murder)


Yes, but no one is required to assist your bad behavior to stop a murder 
that only you know about.


3) spam systems seem to support murder because they claim spamming is 
serious crime and you cannot even tell you are being murdered!


Hyperbole is not your friend.

Spam, broadly defined as above (UBE,) has been instrumental in many 
crimes including (at least) negligent homicide. Spam is used to transmit 
fraud, propaganda, and malware.


Whether or not you receive notice of your mail being blocked is a local 
choice by whoever is blocking it (and/or possibly your own choice of 
tools and providers.) SpamAssassin does not itself accept, reject, or 
specially route mail based on its classification, it only informs the 
MTA (or other mail handling software that calls SA) of ther 
classification.



Anybody here who want to help me?


Why would we? You've labeled us as accessories to murder. You've posted 
a hyperbolic screed here in bad HTML making a lot of claim s with 
absolutely zero evidence.


Hyperbole is NOT YOUR FRIEND!

I'm Scientist and Analyst and my brother is a lawyer. I have worked 
with executives in many companies and in research institutions.


We have an idiomatic saying in the USA: WHOOP-DE-FUCKING-DOO!

Your credentials are irrelevant, as are your brother's.

You have not shown a scientific or analytic approach to your problem and 
it appears that you have not utilized your presumably friendly lawyer 
brother to advise you on how to solve your problems in this realm as 
they may relate to the law.


You should.


--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many 

Re: getting waring from spamassassin.apache.org

[Cecil Westerhof]

Philipp Ewald  writes:

> Yesterdax i got a waring, because of a bounced massage.
> Is this normal thats this Waring was from 2021?
>
>
> Subject: NOTICE: mail delivery status.
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:46:43 +0200

I got a whole series. They where mostly about 2019, with a few about
2020.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Re: getting waring from spamassassin.apache.org

[Bill Cole]

On 2022-07-13 at 05:14:19 UTC-0400 (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:14:19 +0200)
Philipp Ewald 
is rumored to have said:


Yesterdax i got a waring, because of a bounced massage.
Is this normal thats this Waring was from 2021?


I do not know what caused it, but I also got 2 such notices which both 
were from 2020.


My guess would be that there was a stuck mail queue of such notices 
somewhere in the Apache mailing list infrastructure that got unstuck 
somehow. Possibly related to a migration project for mailing lists that 
the ASF Infra team has warned us was in progress a few weeks ago.


It is unlikely to be significant at this point.


--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire

My emails are blocked when I ask for help (murder!) In need help!

[Tomas Ukkonen]

Hello



I'm asking for help online when I'm being murdered!



Police investigation showed there are people who want to murder me and hospital 
gives me experimental toxic treatment without reason. I cannot survive this 
treatment.



When I ask for help online using emails spam systems are blocking me from 
asking for help.



1) spam blocking systems admins are supporting my murder when they block me 
from asking for help. They act like criminals?



2) I don't do commercial email but only ask for help so it is not even spam. 
(in many legislations you can even do some crimes to stop murder)



3) spam systems seem to support murder because they claim spamming is serious 
crime and you cannot even tell you are being murdered!



Anybody here who want to help me?



I'm Scientist and Analyst and my brother is a lawyer. I have worked with 
executives in many companies and in research institutions.





Tomas Ukkonen, M.Sc.

Novel Insight

getting waring from spamassassin.apache.org

[Philipp Ewald]

Yesterdax i got a waring, because of a bounced massage.
Is this normal thats this Waring was from 2021?


Subject: NOTICE: mail delivery status.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:46:43 +0200


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