Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
I use SpamCop to report my spam. I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). Steve
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Zinski, Steve wrote: I use SpamCop to report my spam. I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). In my experience, SpamCop is a colossal waste of _everything_ it uses. Time, space, energy, matter, etc. But that's just "in my experience". YMMV.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a falsely listed server or what not. They are a joke. John Rudd wrote: On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Zinski, Steve wrote: I use SpamCop to report my spam. I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). In my experience, SpamCop is a colossal waste of _everything_ it uses. Time, space, energy, matter, etc. But that's just "in my experience". YMMV.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: > Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no > real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just > let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's > pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a > falsely listed server or what not. Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above mis-information should be corrected. If you are listed incorrectly you should email [EMAIL PROTECTED] They're quite helpful although their definition of incorrectly may differ from other people's definitions (including my own). For example, when some muppet reported us 25 times for a single email Spamcop removed all but one report and canceled the listing immediately. So to say there's no way to contact them is plain wrong. Derek
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Wednesday, Aug 2nd 2006 at 13:50 -0700, quoth Derek Harding: =>On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: =>> Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no =>> real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just =>> let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's =>> pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a =>> falsely listed server or what not. => =>Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above Hold on there Bullwinkle! I have been religiously using spamcop in the hopes that the reports that are sent out get used by at least some of the ISPs. Am I wrong about this? -- Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have .0. happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ ..0 Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- 000 individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? steveo at syslang.net
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
Derek Harding wrote: On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a falsely listed server or what not. Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above mis-information should be corrected. If you are listed incorrectly you should email [EMAIL PROTECTED] They're quite helpful although their definition of incorrectly may differ from other people's definitions (including my own). For example, when some muppet reported us 25 times for a single email Spamcop removed all but one report and canceled the listing immediately. So to say there's no way to contact them is plain wrong. Derek Let me re-phrase that, there's no listed form of contact on their website. I was just there...you have a choice of Header Help, and Terms. There's no "Contact SpamCop" option, no listed email accounts to mail to. So how does Joe Average know how to contact Spam Cop? So one of their serious problems is not listing the fact there is a way to contact them. I remember when SpamCop started, there was a ton more information on the site plus a way to check if you were listed with SpamCop (which you can't do anymore) plus contact information. None of that exists anymore.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
"Zinski, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I use SpamCop to report my spam. > > I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use > SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. > > Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the > honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep > reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). You should automate spamcop.net reporting to level requiring 1-2s of "manual" verification per spam accepted after RBL filtering. -- [pl2en: Andrew] Andrzej Adam Filip : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
Steven W. Orr wrote: > Hold on there Bullwinkle! I have been religiously using spamcop in the > hopes that the reports that are sent out get used by at least some of the > ISPs. Am I wrong about this? > We're an ISP and we take every single spamcop report (or other email abuse report) seriously and investigate all of them. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Quality Business Hosting & Colocation http://www.blacknight.ie/ Tel. 1850 927 280 Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 59 9164239
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
Tom Ray wrote: Derek Harding wrote: On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a falsely listed server or what not. Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above mis-information should be corrected. If you are listed incorrectly you should email [EMAIL PROTECTED] They're quite helpful although their definition of incorrectly may differ from other people's definitions (including my own). For example, when some muppet reported us 25 times for a single email Spamcop removed all but one report and canceled the listing immediately. So to say there's no way to contact them is plain wrong. Derek Let me re-phrase that, there's no listed form of contact on their website. I was just there...you have a choice of Header Help, and Terms. There's no "Contact SpamCop" option, no listed email accounts to mail to. So how does Joe Average know how to contact Spam Cop? I stand corrected I was at SpamCop.com and not SpamCop.net which has these methods...nice to link over to the proper site. So one of their serious problems is not listing the fact there is a way to contact them. I remember when SpamCop started, there was a ton more information on the site plus a way to check if you were listed with SpamCop (which you can't do anymore) plus contact information. None of that exists anymore.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
Tom Ray wrote: > > Let me re-phrase that, there's no listed form of contact on their > website. I was just there...you have a choice of Header Help, and Terms. > There's no "Contact SpamCop" option, no listed email accounts to mail > to. So how does Joe Average know how to contact Spam Cop? Why would "average joe" be contacting any DNSBL admin? > > So one of their serious problems is not listing the fact there is a way > to contact them. I remember when SpamCop started, there was a ton more > information on the site plus a way to check if you were listed with > SpamCop (which you can't do anymore) plus contact information. None of > that exists anymore. You can check if you are listed here: http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Quality Business Hosting & Colocation http://www.blacknight.ie/ Tel. 1850 927 280 Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 59 9164239
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
"Steven W. Orr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wednesday, Aug 2nd 2006 at 13:50 -0700, quoth Derek Harding: > > =>On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: > =>> Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no > =>> real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just > =>> let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's > =>> pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a > =>> falsely listed server or what not. > => > =>Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above > > Hold on there Bullwinkle! I have been religiously using spamcop in the > hopes that the reports that are sent out get used by at least some of the > ISPs. Am I wrong about this? They help keep *good* ISPs clean. Bad ISPs care very little. I assume I receive <1% of received spam from good ISPs. It is not a bad idea to post copies of spamcop.net submitted spam (after munging) to NANAS with spamcop.net report link. It will remove option to abuse "if we only knew" excuse. BTW Are there any plans to include some more spamcop.net helpers into spamassassin distrubution? SpamAssassin can report spam to spamcop.net via SMTP but "after report" acknowlegment is required. It is possible to automate also the second stage (acknowlegment) with an option to post NANAS report. Is somebody interested in testing the tools? [ I have created spamcop-ack.pl already ] -- [pl2en: Andrew] Andrzej Adam Filip : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
> I stand corrected I was at SpamCop.com and not SpamCop.net Yes, I'm sorry, I was referring to SpamCop.net.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Wednesday, Aug 2nd 2006 at 22:59 +0200, quoth Andrzej Adam Filip: =>"Zinski, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: => =>> I use SpamCop to report my spam. =>> =>> I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use =>> SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. =>> =>> Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the =>> honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep =>> reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). => =>You should automate spamcop.net reporting to level requiring 1-2s of =>"manual" verification per spam accepted after RBL filtering. If you're not using spamcup then that will take a lot of the load off. It's a commandline interface to approve the whole list of outstanding reports.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On 2-Aug-06, at 4:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a falsely listed server or what not. They are a joke. John Rudd wrote: On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Zinski, Steve wrote: I use SpamCop to report my spam. I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). In my experience, SpamCop is a colossal waste of _everything_ it uses. Time, space, energy, matter, etc. But that's just "in my experience". YMMV. Well I use Spamcop as one of my RBLs and it has been fantastic, absolutely no false positives.When I have time I also take the time to report spam that gets through the RBL and Spamassassin checks.No problems here. --Gino CerulloPixel Point Studios21 Chesham DriveToronto, ON M3M 1W6T: 416-247-7740F: 416-247-7503
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
From: "Gino Cerullo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Well I use Spamcop as one of my RBLs and it has been fantastic,
absolutely no false positives.
15RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET 5871 1.688.06 31.333.36
That is hardly "no false positives". It's only a 10:1 bet.
{^_^}
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Andrzej Adam Filip wrote: > "Steven W. Orr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Wednesday, Aug 2nd 2006 at 13:50 -0700, quoth Derek Harding: > > > > =>On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: > > =>> Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no > > =>> real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just > > =>> let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's > > =>> pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a > > =>> falsely listed server or what not. > > => > > =>Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above > > > > Hold on there Bullwinkle! I have been religiously using spamcop in the > > hopes that the reports that are sent out get used by at least some of the > > ISPs. Am I wrong about this? > > They help keep *good* ISPs clean. Bad ISPs care very little. > I assume I receive <1% of received spam from good ISPs. > > It is not a bad idea to post copies of spamcop.net submitted spam (after > munging) to NANAS with spamcop.net report link. I like to think that I'm a "good ISP", but I've had at least one of my servers listed a few times by them. They delist in 24 hours, but there are still people who reject using SpamCop as a BL. I do not recommend this. Spamcop lists any server that bounces email into one of their spam traps. I contacted them via their newsgroups and they are adamant that no server should ever bounce email or have any kind of autoreply. While I agree that bouncing (as opposed to rejecting) email because it is detected as spam or a virus is very bad, they're basically insisting that you violate RFCs 2821 and 3464. If you have customer autoresponders, you're SOL. If you host mailing lists that uses an autoreply confirmation (itself an anti-spam measure), you're SOL. They insist that this is "bad behavior". I insist that it's neccessary for my business and in compliance with all applicable RFCs. I use them in SA...2.0 score, which I lowered from 3.5 when I notice that yahoo groups were listed. But the only BLs I reject against are sbl-xbl, which catches a big chunk with virtually no false positives. James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://3.am =
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Wednesday 02 August 2006 23:09, Zinski, Steve wrote: > I use SpamCop to report my spam. > > I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use > SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. > > Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the > honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep > reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). SpamCop has disabled subscriptions to mailing lists several times because of erroneous alerting. I have reported them to my provider's "abuse" handlers. I therefore do not recommend SpamCop.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
David Baron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wednesday 02 August 2006 23:09, Zinski, Steve wrote: >> I use SpamCop to report my spam. >> >> I use the SpamHaus RBL as a first line of defense then I use >> SpamAssassin to catch the rest of the spam coming to my server. >> >> Am I wasting my time? Should I just delete low-scoring spam and let the >> honeypots harvest and report to the various RBLs, or should I keep >> reporting spam via SpamCop (which wastes a lot of my time). > > SpamCop has disabled subscriptions to mailing lists several times because of > erroneous alerting. I have reported them to my provider's "abuse" handlers. I > therefore do not recommend SpamCop. Make *clear* distiction between thre basic ways of using spmacop.net 1) email blocking at MTA level [may be controversial cause of "zero+ tolerance"] 2) scoring by SpamAssassin [score may be decreased or zeroed] 3) spam *reporting* (automatization of sending LARTs) [*I recomend it*] -- [pl2en: Andrew] Andrzej Adam Filip : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Andrzej Adam Filip wrote: > >> "Steven W. Orr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >> > On Wednesday, Aug 2nd 2006 at 13:50 -0700, quoth Derek Harding: >> > >> > =>On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 16:37 -0400, Tom Ray wrote: >> > =>> Anyone serious about stopping SPAM should not use SpamCop. They have no >> > =>> real checking method, it's like AOL's spam blocking method...they just >> > =>> let users submit what they think is spam and then block it. It's >> > =>> pointless. There's not even a way to contact anyone at SpamCop to fix a >> > =>> falsely listed server or what not. >> > => >> > =>Spamcop has its problems, some very serious, however the above >> > >> > Hold on there Bullwinkle! I have been religiously using spamcop in the >> > hopes that the reports that are sent out get used by at least some of the >> > ISPs. Am I wrong about this? >> >> They help keep *good* ISPs clean. Bad ISPs care very little. >> I assume I receive <1% of received spam from good ISPs. >> >> It is not a bad idea to post copies of spamcop.net submitted spam (after >> munging) to NANAS with spamcop.net report link. > > I like to think that I'm a "good ISP", but I've had at least one of my > servers listed a few times by them. They delist in 24 hours, but there > are still people who reject using SpamCop as a BL. I do not recommend > this. > > Spamcop lists any server that bounces email into one of their spam traps. > I contacted them via their newsgroups and they are adamant that no server > should ever bounce email or have any kind of autoreply. > > While I agree that bouncing (as opposed to rejecting) email because it is > detected as spam or a virus is very bad, they're basically insisting that > you violate RFCs 2821 and 3464. If you have customer autoresponders, > you're SOL. If you host mailing lists that uses an autoreply confirmation > (itself an anti-spam measure), you're SOL. They insist that this is "bad > behavior". I insist that it's neccessary for my business and in > compliance with all applicable RFCs. > > I use them in SA...2.0 score, which I lowered from 3.5 when I notice that > yahoo groups were listed. But the only BLs I reject against are sbl-xbl, > which catches a big chunk with virtually no false positives. > > James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://3.am I and Steven were talking about using spamcop.net for spam reporting to the responsible ISP. You talk about spam blocking/scoring. -- [pl2en: Andrew] Andrzej Adam Filip : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Thu, August 3, 2006 16:13, David Baron wrote: > SpamCop has disabled subscriptions to mailing lists several times because of > erroneous alerting. I have reported them to my provider's "abuse" handlers. I > therefore do not recommend SpamCop. http://www.spamcop.net http://www.spamcop.com with one ? -- Benny
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Saturday 05 August 2006 20:24, Benny Pedersen wrote: > On Thu, August 3, 2006 16:13, David Baron wrote: > > SpamCop has disabled subscriptions to mailing lists several times because > > of erroneous alerting. I have reported them to my provider's "abuse" > > handlers. I therefore do not recommend SpamCop. > > http://www.spamcop.net > http://www.spamcop.com > > with one ? Did not know there were two. I do not remember and have no copy any more of the "complaint" I logged. The targets were yahoogroups if this is of any use.
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Sat, August 5, 2006 21:22, David Baron wrote: > On Saturday 05 August 2006 20:24, Benny Pedersen wrote: >> On Thu, August 3, 2006 16:13, David Baron wrote: >> > SpamCop has disabled subscriptions to mailing lists several times because >> > of erroneous alerting. I have reported them to my provider's "abuse" >> > handlers. I therefore do not recommend SpamCop. >> >> http://www.spamcop.net >> http://www.spamcop.com >> >> with one ? > > Did not know there were two. I do not remember and have no copy any more of > the "complaint" I logged. The targets were yahoogroups if this is of any use. > okay, just that its complete diff programs that nearly have equal hostnames so all saying is need to know with one is used, i have used spamcop.net from my squirrelmail in long time, and it works, but its tidius to go to there webpage just to say it is spam, so i stopped with that spamcop.com is the windows client for spamcop.net ? i don't know, dont care since i am linux client :-) i will have to make my local pyzord so this is working local here, and later have a pyzor client to a working server on my own, more to test :-) -- Benny
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Saturday, August 5, 2006, 12:46:20 PM, Benny Pedersen wrote: > spamcop.com is the windows client for spamcop.net ? No, IIRC it's something totally different that's squatting a similar domain name, probably on purpose. Jeff C. -- Jeff Chan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.surbl.org/
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Thursday, August 3, 2006, 7:40:57 AM, Andrzej Filip wrote: > Make *clear* distiction between thre basic ways of using spmacop.net Correct: spamcop.net has multiple functions. > 1) email blocking at MTA level [may be controversial cause of "zero+ > tolerance"] Not recommended. Too many FPs to block outright using the SpamCop BL at the MTA level. > 2) scoring by SpamAssassin [score may be decreased or zeroed] Excellent use for it since SA gives it an appropriately low score for the FP level in the SpamCop BL. They way you get the benefits of the fairly aggressive correct hits, but not much aggravation from the FPs. > 3) spam *reporting* (automatization of sending LARTs) [*I recomend it*] Also recommended here. Reporting spam using SpamCop gets some spams blocked using the SpamCop BL. But it also gets them blacklisted using the SURBL SC list, which is very effective and has additional processing and whitelisting so it doesn't FP like SpamCop's own IP BL does: http://www.surbl.org/lists.html#sc Therefore, please report spams using SpamCop. It's worth mentioning that despite the munging SpamCop does to try to not be a confirmation loop for spammers, using SpamCop may result in some more spam due to that effect. There is also a "mole" option you can set in SpamCop that does not report, just blacklists. Jeff C. -- Jeff Chan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.surbl.org/
Re: Am I wasting my time with SpamCop?
On Wednesday, August 2, 2006, 2:01:44 PM, Michele Blacknight.ie wrote: > Steven W. Orr wrote: > > Hold on there Bullwinkle! I have been religiously using spamcop in the >> hopes that the reports that are sent out get used by at least some of the >> ISPs. Am I wrong about this? >> > We're an ISP and we take every single spamcop report (or other email > abuse report) seriously and investigate all of them. Same here. We take all abuse reports seriously and investigate them, including SpamCop reports. Jeff C. -- Jeff Chan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.surbl.org/
