RE: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
I would say not to, create another quickstart if you feel there's an audience. I know that at the stage I found the QS Archetype useful, having to remove Hibernate would not have been a welcome or easy task. -Original Message- From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hls...@gmail.com] Sent: 23 January 2009 00:32 To: Tapestry users Subject: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry- hibernate? The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Christian Edward Gruber wrote: If you're going to do that, you should probably include a basic value object with a sample property and a DAO configured as a T5 service to allow someone to know what you're talking about. Just wiring up Hibernate isn't as helpful. Though we're starting to talk about a jump-start-esque thing at this point. By no means am I suggesting don't do it, but it could be more confusing if you did it without the last little pieces. Really it sounds like a different archetype to me. I also agree with that. For now, I never use T5-hibernate in any project. I'm perhaps a special case, but I dealt with a T5-LDAP project (no hibernate), a T5 front-end on top of a Spring-based busines/persistence layer (hibernate was used, but handled by spring), a T5-JCR project (again, hibernate wasn't in the scope of T5). So, that's my first argument : T5-hibernate isn't a common dependency for every one. Secondly, has Christian said, if all the matter is to have the dependency in the pom, I think it's just useless. It's kind of five lines to add in a file. At contrario, if the aim is to demonstrate in the quickstart app HOW (simply) T5-hibernate works, the goal seems _really_ interesting: it demonstrates common idioms, bring best practices into ligth, etc. But in this case, the quickstart should be able to really demonstrate the use of T5-hibernate, and so comes we the full stack (a domain object, a dao service or the direct entity persistence strategy, and a DB). But that is more and more looking like a small tutorial... So, to sum up: - I don't see the point at ONLY having T5-hibernate in the POM ; - I clearly see the advantage at having a full persistence example ; - I thing, but I'm almost certainly biased here, that having T5-hibernate in a project is not the vast majority of T5 project, and so should not be in the simplest quickstart. At this point, I'm thinking again at what I just say... And in fact, I use quickestart only for test / demo app, in a bigger project, I almost always build the app from strach, and just copy/past what part of the pom I need. So perhaps it just doesn't matter to have to remove T5-Hibernate in a really, more-than-five-minutes-spent project, and I may be a good plus for a demo/test (but I maintain that I would like to be able to really use persistence as soon the quickstart is finished) So, it seems that I have no definitive idea on the subject... Best solution: 2 quickstart, a ligth and a full-stack ; but I could see why having only the second one is OK. -- Francois Armand Etudes Développements J2EE Groupe Linagora - http://www.linagora.com Tél.: +33 (0)1 58 18 68 28 --- http://fanf42.blogspot.com InterLDAP - http://interldap.org FederID - http://www.federid.org/ Open Source identities management and federation - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
I think the archetype is fine as it is. IMHO adding the Hibernate support would confuse things (what to remove, what to keep), especially for beginners who are going to use this archetype. I'm developing my 4th T5 project, and I dont use the archetype any more. So maybe my point of view (archetype is for beginners) is biased. BTW if you use Hibernate with annotations or through JPA you dont need hibernate.cfg.xml. So adding it might add to the confusion. José Howard Lewis Ship a écrit : The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Howard Lewis Ship hls...@gmail.com wrote: I'm of the opinion that it's easier to remove unwanted stuff than add it in. Tapestry-hibernate, when it is in the classpath, tries to create a SessionFactory. So, if someone wants the Tapestry archetype without Hibernate, at first he/she will have an exception. This has happened in this list at least two times, as far as I can remember. This way, I don't think the Tapestry archetype must not have Tapestry-Hibernate. I also agree with Francois arguments. -- Thiago - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
-- No -- Hibernate dependency But sample class using an annotation to access a service DAO that uses Mock Objects (Using Spring or Juice) would be great. I use: - T5 for HTML/CSS/JavaScript, - SmartGwt (SmartClient / GWT) for AJAX - Spring for DI (Using Annotations) - DAO Access through JPA, JMS, JAXB (used to be XmlBeans) - DTO Objects are copied from JPA classes or JMS result using BeanUtils.copyProperties - JPA implementation is either Hibernate or Toplink - JMS implementation is either ActiveMQ or WebSphere MQ Beauty is, with DAO Access I just can use whatever integration (data)layer I need. I am now in the process of creating a T5/GWT OSGI bundle for OSGI servers (springsource-DM or ServiceMix) Goal is to dynamically load and change the UI according to business needs -- total separation of concern -- and to finally use cloud/grid computing like Amazon and Google. So my customers don't have to waste money by buying hardware pretexting Java is too heavy. Brice -Original Message- From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hls...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:32 PM To: Tapestry users Subject: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate? The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org --- The information contained in the linked e-mail transmission and any attachments may be privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the person(s) named in the linked e-mail transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you should not review, disseminate, distribute or duplicate this e-mail transmission or any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. We do not accept account orders and/or instructions related to AllianceBernstein products or services by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. The linked e-mail transmission and any attachments are provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed in any manner as any solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment opportunities or any related financial instruments and should not be construed in any manner as a public offer of any investment opportunities or any related financial instruments. If you, as the intended recipient of the linked e-mail transmission, the purpose of which is to inform and update our clients, prospects and consultants of developments relating to our services and products, would not like to receive further e-mail correspondence from the sender, please reply to the sender indicating your wishes. Although we attempt to sweep e-mail and attachments for viruses, we will not be liable for any damages arising from the alteration of the contents of this linked e-mail transmission and any attachments by a third party or as a result of any virus being passed on. Please note: Trading instructions sent electronically to Bernstein shall not be deemed accepted until a representative of Bernstein acknowledges receipt electronically or by telephone. Comments in the linked e-mail transmission and any attachments are part of a larger body of investment analysis. For our research reports, which contain information that may be used to support investment decisions, and disclosures, see our website at www.bernsteinresearch.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
I don't think Hibernate should be added in the quickstart. Just having an in-memory DAO is good enough, and a wiki page on adding t5-hibernate to the vanilla (plain) quickstart can be added. On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Robert, Brice brice.rob...@alliancebernstein.com wrote: -- No -- Hibernate dependency But sample class using an annotation to access a service DAO that uses Mock Objects (Using Spring or Juice) would be great. I use: - T5 for HTML/CSS/JavaScript, - SmartGwt (SmartClient / GWT) for AJAX - Spring for DI (Using Annotations) - DAO Access through JPA, JMS, JAXB (used to be XmlBeans) - DTO Objects are copied from JPA classes or JMS result using BeanUtils.copyProperties - JPA implementation is either Hibernate or Toplink - JMS implementation is either ActiveMQ or WebSphere MQ Beauty is, with DAO Access I just can use whatever integration (data)layer I need. I am now in the process of creating a T5/GWT OSGI bundle for OSGI servers (springsource-DM or ServiceMix) Goal is to dynamically load and change the UI according to business needs -- total separation of concern -- and to finally use cloud/grid computing like Amazon and Google. So my customers don't have to waste money by buying hardware pretexting Java is too heavy. Brice -Original Message- From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hls...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:32 PM To: Tapestry users Subject: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate? The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org --- The information contained in the linked e-mail transmission and any attachments may be privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the person(s) named in the linked e-mail transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you should not review, disseminate, distribute or duplicate this e-mail transmission or any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. We do not accept account orders and/or instructions related to AllianceBernstein products or services by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. The linked e-mail transmission and any attachments are provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed in any manner as any solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment opportunities or any related financial instruments and should not be construed in any manner as a public offer of any investment opportunities or any related financial instruments. If you, as the intended recipient of the linked e-mail transmission, the purpose of which is to inform and update our clients, prospects and consultants of developments relating to our services and products, would not like to receive further e-mail correspondence from the sender, please reply to the sender indicating your wishes. Although we attempt to sweep e-mail and attachments for viruses, we will not be liable for any damages arising from the alteration of the contents of this linked e-mail transmission and any attachments by a third party or as a result of any virus being passed on. Please note: Trading instructions sent electronically to Bernstein shall not be deemed accepted until a representative of Bernstein acknowledges receipt electronically or by telephone. Comments in the linked e-mail transmission and any attachments are part of a larger body of investment analysis. For our research reports, which contain information that may be used to support investment decisions, and disclosures, see our website at www.bernsteinresearch.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Why not include the config needed for tapestry-hibernate in the pom, but comment it out. That way you don't automatically get the cruft if you don't want hibernate, but if you do it's really easy to figure out how to include it. Szemere
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
If you're going to do that, you should probably include a basic value object with a sample property and a DAO configured as a T5 service to allow someone to know what you're talking about. Just wiring up Hibernate isn't as helpful. Though we're starting to talk about a jump- start-esque thing at this point. By no means am I suggesting don't do it, but it could be more confusing if you did it without the last little pieces. Really it sounds like a different archetype to me. Christian. On 22-Jan-09, at 19:32 , Howard Lewis Ship wrote: The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org Christian Edward Gruber christianedwardgru...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Em Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:32:21 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship hls...@gmail.com escreveu: The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? What about having two quickstarts, one with Hibernate and other with Hibernate? It will result in more work for Howard, but I think it will be way better for Tapestry newbies that are Hiberante newbies too. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
I'm of the opinion that it's easier to remove unwanted stuff than add it in. I really don't want to maintain two archetypes, but the other developers are beginning to be more active, so maybe my bandwidth shouldn't be the deciding factor. On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: Em Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:32:21 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship hls...@gmail.com escreveu: The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? What about having two quickstarts, one with Hibernate and other with Hibernate? It will result in more work for Howard, but I think it will be way better for Tapestry newbies that are Hiberante newbies too. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
As dbms choice and database setup (dialect, connection, pool configuration) are highly individual and need to be done manually either way, I don't see the need to include a dependency on tapestry-hibernate in the quickstart just so that a potential user doesn't have to add it to his POM by himself. It would be different though, if we shipped the quickstart with a dependency on HSQLDB (and a working hibernate.cfg.xml for it) and some example entities. Uli Howard Lewis Ship schrieb: The title says it all. It would be very easy to include tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml file as well. Thoughts? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
