Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Just to add some more fire :) ,and think it's a nice idea. Found this , in here( grails 2.0.0 release ) http://grails.org/doc/latest/guide/gettingStarted.html#requirements jQuery Replaces Prototype The Protoype Javascript library has been removed from Grails core and now new Grails applications have the jQuery plugin configured by default. This will only impact you if you are using Prototype with the adaptive AJAX tags in your application, e.g. g:remoteLink/ etc, because those tags will break as soon as you upgrade. To resolve this issue, simply install thePrototype plugin http://grails.org/plugin/prototypein your application. You can also remove the prototype files from your|web-app/js/prototype|directory if you want. On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:17:35 -0200, trsvax trs...@gmail.com wrote: I agree about having a prototype.jar and I don't view this as a backward compatibility problem. Dependencies change from version to version anyway. It would also make it easier to create something other than jQuery if needed. The original idea is to create a framework-agnostic JavaScript layer to be used by Tapestry-provided JS code. It would be implemented in Prototype and jQuery out-of-the-box and anyone could provide your own implementation too. This way, there's no useless code in either option. -- *Jose Luis Sanchez* Senior Developer *E-mail*: joseluis.sanc...@m-centric.com *Phone* : +34 91 277 03 16 mCentric mobilising imagination c/ Jose Echegaray, 8 Building 3 28230 Las Rozas (Madrid). SPAIN. This message may contain confidential information or privileged material, and is intended only for the individual(s) named. If you are not in the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secured or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Hi All, The most important consideration in this debate imho is backwards compatibility. Some companies have tens of thousands of lines of Tapestry code, so are heavily invested. Whilst removing prototype is probably a good idea, Tapestry must maintain legacy support for prototype, at least as an optional inclusion going forward. Not doing so will alienate many, not a mistake worth repeating. This is why the 5.4 planned JavaScript abstraction layer is a great idea. regards, Peter - Original Message - From: Jose Luis Sanchez joseluis.sanc...@m-centric.com To: Tapestry users users@tapestry.apache.org Sent: Friday, 16 December, 2011 1:41:32 PM Subject: Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in? Just to add some more fire :) ,and think it's a nice idea. Found this , in here( grails 2.0.0 release ) http://grails.org/doc/latest/guide/gettingStarted.html#requirements jQuery Replaces Prototype The Protoype Javascript library has been removed from Grails core and now new Grails applications have the jQuery plugin configured by default. This will only impact you if you are using Prototype with the adaptive AJAX tags in your application, e.g. g:remoteLink/ etc, because those tags will break as soon as you upgrade. To resolve this issue, simply install thePrototype plugin http://grails.org/plugin/prototypein your application. You can also remove the prototype files from your|web-app/js/prototype|directory if you want. On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:17:35 -0200, trsvax trs...@gmail.com wrote: I agree about having a prototype.jar and I don't view this as a backward compatibility problem. Dependencies change from version to version anyway. It would also make it easier to create something other than jQuery if needed. The original idea is to create a framework-agnostic JavaScript layer to be used by Tapestry-provided JS code. It would be implemented in Prototype and jQuery out-of-the-box and anyone could provide your own implementation too. This way, there's no useless code in either option. -- *Jose Luis Sanchez* Senior Developer *E-mail*: joseluis.sanc...@m-centric.com *Phone* : +34 91 277 03 16 mCentric mobilising imagination c/ Jose Echegaray, 8 Building 3 28230 Las Rozas (Madrid). SPAIN. This message may contain confidential information or privileged material, and is intended only for the individual(s) named. If you are not in the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secured or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
javascript abstraction layer +1, I guess it also sounds like the way of making things right, which is what tapestry rings a bell for me... cheers Nicolás.-
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
I'm not for anything breaking backward compatibility and I'm not interesting in Tapestry 6, version 5 is fine by me. I've been using Tapestry since 3.0 and I've got some Tapestry 4 code and some 5.2 Prototype code now. I'm also running 5.3 with the Tapestry5-jQuery library. But IMHO another abstraction layer is a really bad idea. There is a ton of documentation on Prototype and jQuery but none on the Tapestry Javascript abstraction layer. Secondly like it or not at this point in time jQuery is more popular that Prototype. I think trying to maintain parity between the jQuery enhanced components and the Prototype enhanced components would only serve to limit the number of jQuery components and thus Tapestry components. Lastly I think the correct abstraction layer already exists and that's mixin. I think all the Javascript behavior should be added via mixins. With that approach it should be easy enough to have a jQuery and a Prototype project where the mixins add the Javascript functionality instead of building it into the component. If mixins prove inadequate for the task then the focus should be on improving them not trying to create two identical sets of components one with jQuery and the other with Prototype. One more thing: You should be able to include both libraries and have things work. Otherwise I'd say you do have a backward compatibility problem that will leave the Prototype crowd (me included) orphaned. This would allow existing users to keep doing what they are doing. It would also allow them to include jQuery and get additional components only supported by jQuery and keep using thier existing Prototype code. It would allow new projects to be jQuery only. Lastly and perhaps most important it lessens the learning curve to integrate Tapestry and Javascript because you don't need to learn yet another Javascript abstraction layer that runs on top of yet another Javascript abstraction layer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:01:31 -0200, Barry Books trs...@gmail.com wrote: But IMHO another abstraction layer is a really bad idea. There is a ton of documentation on Prototype and jQuery but none on the Tapestry Javascript abstraction layer. I think the abstraction layer is for Tapestry itself and for people who want to implement Tapestry's own JS code (Zone, Autocomplete, etc) in different JS frameworks, not for developers using Tapestry, which would use their chosen JS framework directly. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
I would in fact argue in the opposite direction. I would suggest that you move all of the prototype code to a separate project just like tapestry5-jquery and let me pick by including the proper dependency. As it is right now, the core code base includes a bunch of prototype code that I will never use. Just my opinion. -Tony On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:30:15 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case. Backward compatibility is a very strong priority for Tapestry 5. This doesn't mean we shouldn't have a T5 version based on jQuery, but we should continue providing Prototype. We could add a configuration symbol to switch from one to another. On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
I agree about having a prototype.jar and I don't view this as a backward compatibility problem. Dependencies change from version to version anyway. It would also make it easier to create something other than jQuery if needed. -- View this message in context: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/prototypejs-is-dead-time-to-bring-t5-jquery-in-tp5073709p5078183.html Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:17:35 -0200, trsvax trs...@gmail.com wrote: I agree about having a prototype.jar and I don't view this as a backward compatibility problem. Dependencies change from version to version anyway. It would also make it easier to create something other than jQuery if needed. The original idea is to create a framework-agnostic JavaScript layer to be used by Tapestry-provided JS code. It would be implemented in Prototype and jQuery out-of-the-box and anyone could provide your own implementation too. This way, there's no useless code in either option. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 05:03:56 -0200, David Rees dree...@gmail.com wrote: Is it time to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project? What are the long term plans? Check these pages: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-999 http://tapestry.apache.org/javascript-faq.html :) -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 05:03:56 -0200, David Rees dree...@gmail.com wrote: Is it time to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project? What are the long term plans? Check these pages: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-999 http://tapestry.apache.org/javascript-faq.html :) -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! (971) 678-5210 http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case. On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) - hugi On 14.12.2011, at 18:30, Lenny Primak wrote: I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case. On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:30:15 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case. Backward compatibility is a very strong priority for Tapestry 5. This doesn't mean we shouldn't have a T5 version based on jQuery, but we should continue providing Prototype. We could add a configuration symbol to switch from one to another. On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:30:15 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case. Backward compatibility is a very strong priority for Tapestry 5. This doesn't mean we shouldn't have a T5 version based on jQuery, but we should continue providing Prototype. We could add a configuration symbol to switch from one to another. It's up to the devs (like yourself) how long to provide backwards compatibility with Prototype. A configuration symbol to switch from one to another would be useful. I could also see it being useful on a per-page level when migrating larger apps. On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed. Glad to hear that - what does the roadmap to 5.4 look like? -Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Tapestry 6 anyone? :-) mrg On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Yea, the first thing I heard about tapestry is that's it's good but doesn't care about backwards compatibility. I had clean-sheed design so I didn't care. As you saw, I chose my words very carefully. 'favor' is the operative word, not 'the hell with backwards compatibility' Isn't it true though that if you are relying on Prototype in your Tapestry app, you aren't really relying on the public API? I've never seen anywhere that Prototype is the public API for Tapestry. I think this is the case and backwards compatibility becomes a non-issue at this point. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too! It's time. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote: Tapestry 6 anyone? :-) mrg On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Yes, bump up the number and keep backwards compatibility. That will send the right message. Thumbs up. On 15/12/2011, at 6:50 AM, Lenny Primak wrote: Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too! It's time. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote: Tapestry 6 anyone? :-) mrg On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
I'm strongly against changing the version number to 6. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Geoff Callender geoff.callender.jumpst...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, bump up the number and keep backwards compatibility. That will send the right message. Thumbs up. On 15/12/2011, at 6:50 AM, Lenny Primak wrote: Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too! It's time. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote: Tapestry 6 anyone? :-) mrg On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! (971) 678-5210 http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:10:54 -0200, David Rees dree...@gmail.com wrote: It's up to the devs (like yourself) how long to provide backwards compatibility with Prototype. Agreed. My opinion is the same: it should be provided for a long time yet. A configuration symbol to switch from one to another would be useful. Agreed. I guess the T5 one will look quite similar to the SUPPRESS_PROTOTYPE one in tapestry5-jquery. I could also see it being useful on a per-page level when migrating larger apps. Wouldn't this be already covered with JavaScript stacks? -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Is this because of the package names? I would say its not much of an issue renaming the package names for us tapestry users with good tools. On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Howard Lewis Ship hls...@gmail.com wrote: I'm strongly against changing the version number to 6. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Geoff Callender geoff.callender.jumpst...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, bump up the number and keep backwards compatibility. That will send the right message. Thumbs up. On 15/12/2011, at 6:50 AM, Lenny Primak wrote: Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too! It's time. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote: Tapestry 6 anyone? :-) mrg On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson h...@karlmenn.is wrote: As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1 ;-) I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . . In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs. * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . . -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! (971) 678-5210 http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:49:19 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: Yea, the first thing I heard about tapestry is that's it's good but doesn't care about backwards compatibility. I had clean-sheed design so I didn't care. In this scenario I wouldn't too (I even convinced my bosses at the time to use Tapestry 5 alphas), but many people do. As you saw, I chose my words very carefully. 'favor' is the operative word, not 'the hell with backwards compatibility' Yep! Isn't it true though that if you are relying on Prototype in your Tapestry app, you aren't really relying on the public API? I've never seen anywhere that Prototype is the public API for Tapestry. Nor me. :) Prototype isn't part of the Tapestry API but Tapestry provides it. One way of dealing with the backward compatibility issue here is to provide a package that provides Prototype in such a way thet the $() function is the Prototype one, not the jQuery one. Something like this was suggested for deprecated APIs, such as the old URL rewriting API, which is heavily used in the projects I work currently. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:36:47 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: Is this because of the package names? I would say its not much of an issue renaming the package names for us tapestry users with good tools. Not only that: Howard once vehemently and publicly said that there wouldn't be a Tapestry version 6 and many people echoed it (me included) as a way to lower the perception that Tapestry doesn't care about backward-compatibility. We had a serious trolling problem before. Check this thread: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-td2415654.html. Some guy makes up a false Howard statement that T6 would be released in the 4th quarter of 2008. (Thiago looks at calendar) hey, it's 4th quarter 2011 and no Tapestry 6! :P This thread also has a lengthy discussion about having a T6 or not, but without trolling: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-Famous-last-words-td2432735.html. Best comment: Michel Gentry: Simple: T5.0 = T5.1 = ... = T5.9 = T7.0. hehehe. Or my own comment: Another path would be T5.0 = T5.1 = ... = T5.9 = ... T5.10 ... (supposing backward-compatility is kept besides for minor things, of course) Or do it the Sun way: T5.0 = T5.1 = ... = T5.4 = ... T9 :P Anyway, after Chrome and specially Firefox, version numbers have becoming meaningless. And code always matter. :) I can't wait for Tapestry 5.99! :P -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
At this point it seems like you could have a Tapestry5-jquery.jar and a Tapestry5-prototype.jar and Javascript support becomes like Hibernate vs JPA. You just include none/one/both depending on your needs. I would think something that could happen in 5.4 by just moving the prototype code into it's own jar. -- View this message in context: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/prototypejs-is-dead-time-to-bring-t5-jquery-in-tp5073709p5075694.html Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Dare I try to turn this thinking around on it's head... Chrome, Firefox and other people have rightly realized that a version number is indeed a meaningless marketing tool. Version of the code is a SCM revision, thats all Perhaps it's not a bad thing and tapestry should get on board. Microsoft broke a lot of promises, so did apple and they are still in business. Steve Jobs biography is a good read especially on how not to listen to trolls. If apple could dump Motorola chips and MacOS 9, tapestry can certainly move to version 6 peanut gallery be damned! On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo thiag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:36:47 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: Is this because of the package names? I would say its not much of an issue renaming the package names for us tapestry users with good tools. Not only that: Howard once vehemently and publicly said that there wouldn't be a Tapestry version 6 and many people echoed it (me included) as a way to lower the perception that Tapestry doesn't care about backward-compatibility. We had a serious trolling problem before. Check this thread: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-td2415654.html. Some guy makes up a false Howard statement that T6 would be released in the 4th quarter of 2008. (Thiago looks at calendar) hey, it's 4th quarter 2011 and no Tapestry 6! :P This thread also has a lengthy discussion about having a T6 or not, but without trolling: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-Famous-last-words-td2432735.html. Best comment: Michel Gentry: Simple: T5.0 = T5.1 = ... = T5.9 = T7.0. hehehe. Or my own comment: Another path would be T5.0 = T5.1 = ... = T5.9 = ... T5.10 ... (supposing backward-compatility is kept besides for minor things, of course) Or do it the Sun way: T5.0 = T5.1 = ... = T5.4 = ... T9 :P Anyway, after Chrome and specially Firefox, version numbers have becoming meaningless. And code always matter. :) I can't wait for Tapestry 5.99! :P -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:12:58 -0200, Lenny Primak lpri...@hope.nyc.ny.us wrote: Dare I try to turn this thinking around on it's head... Chrome, Firefox and other people have rightly realized that a version number is indeed a meaningless marketing tool. I don't agree much for the Tapestry market, which is developers, which know that Opera 11.60 isn't a better browser than Firefox 8 just because of the version number (Opera lover talking here.:)) Version of the code is a SCM revision, thats all Perhaps it's not a bad thing and tapestry should get on board. Microsoft broke a lot of promises, so did apple and they are still in business. That's also a very good reason for not liking them. :D Steve Jobs biography is a good read especially on how not to listen to trolls. The problem here is that people still listen to trolls. If apple could dump Motorola chips and MacOS 9, tapestry can certainly move to version 6 peanut gallery be damned! Again, I don't think Tapestry history allows for that now nor in the next couple years for marketing and trust reasons. As some people said, if in the future the need for a non-backward compatible version of Tapestry arises, it should choose another name. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
Isn't it true though that if you are relying on Prototype in your
Tapestry app, you aren't really relying on the public API?
I've never seen anywhere that Prototype is the public API for
Tapestry.
Nor me. :) Prototype isn't part of the Tapestry API but Tapestry
provides it. One way of dealing with the backward compatibility
issue here is to provide a package that provides Prototype in such a
way thet the $() function is the Prototype one, not the jQuery one.
Something like this was suggested for deprecated APIs, such as the
old URL rewriting API, which is heavily used in the projects I work
currently.
I'd prefer this, or maybe even emulate much of Prototype in jQuery.
Since Tapestry came with Prototype, I use it extensively in my app,
although mostly for $('yourId') and $$('css rule'), array iteration
and AJAX calls. I don't really use much of Prototype other than that,
although I do have a Modalbox module. I'm sure there is one of those
for jQuery.
It's rather easy to use both:
$j = jQuery.noConflict()
This way you can use $j in place of $ without having to type
jQuery(...) everywhere.
Norman Franke
Answering Service for Directors, Inc.
www.myasd.com
prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?
Reading the prototypejs mailing list archives, it's pretty clear that prototypejs is pretty much dead at this point in time. The tapestry5-jquery team have done a great job replacing prototypejs with jquery which is pretty much the defacto javascript library these days. Is it time to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project? What are the long term plans? As a Tapestry developer, I normally try to minimize my use of third party plugins - they are very rarely supported as well as the core project itself so while using a 3rd party plugin may save some short term development effort, it usually comes around later when dealing with version updates - hence my suggestion to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project. Obviously, it's likely that a lot of people have built Tapestry apps using prototypejs since it's bundled with Tapestry - so coming up with a plan that allows for minimal pain while migrating will be essential. -Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
