[VFB] Step-by-steps... comments?
I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments?
I liked both, the parallel weave in particular. One way to solve the end of weave process is to have the thread tied in where you end ahead of time, hold both strands of woven material in one hand wrap thread w/ the other. As to the touch dubbing, I'll try it on smaller hooks. Not sure why, but I've gotten away from waxing thread when dubbing. This would save some time. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:23 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] 3rd Annual Wasatch Fly Tying Fishing Expo in SLC Ut.
FYI Check it out at http://fiberglassflyrodders.yuku.com/topic/8019/t/3rd-Annual-Wasatch-Fly-Tying-Fishing-Expo-in-SLC-Ut-.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY
Fish slowly and thoroughly. Haste never pays dividends. Don't whip the stream to a froth. Make fewer casts. Make them to places which count an fish each cast out instead of lifting it prematurely. Ray Bergman Trout º ** JIMMY D. MOOREjdmo...@fishgame.com North Zone Fishing Editor - Texas Fish Game Mag, Author - Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Humorist, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, Member TOWA, Retired Scout Exec. BSA. * º * --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments?
Not sure if I got you right there, but if you mean having the thread tied in during the weaving process, this is hard... since one hand will be moving back and forth under the hook and the bobbin will be hanging in the way. Holding both strands in one hand and wrapping with the other when securing it, is on the other hand nothing different from what I mean... once the thread has been tied in again. /Nick On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: I liked both, the parallel weave in particular. One way to solve the end of weave process is to have the thread tied in where you end ahead of time, hold both strands of woven material in one hand wrap thread w/ the other. As to the touch dubbing, I'll try it on smaller hooks. Not sure why, but I've gotten away from waxing thread when dubbing. This would save some time. J -- *From:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Niclas Runarsson *Sent:* Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:23 AM *To:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments?
Don't have the bobbin hanging directly below the hook, have the thread straight out from the hook similar to the way the Nor vise is setup, w/ the bobbin closer to your chest instead of off to the right. It might be a little more awkward, but it would make finishing the weave easier. Think of it as though the hook shank extended out beyond the eye; you're crossing under the thread the same way you're already crossing under the hook. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas (Gmail) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Not sure if I got you right there, but if you mean having the thread tied in during the weaving process, this is hard... since one hand will be moving back and forth under the hook and the bobbin will be hanging in the way. Holding both strands in one hand and wrapping with the other when securing it, is on the other hand nothing different from what I mean... once the thread has been tied in again. /Nick On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: I liked both, the parallel weave in particular. One way to solve the end of weave process is to have the thread tied in where you end ahead of time, hold both strands of woven material in one hand wrap thread w/ the other. As to the touch dubbing, I'll try it on smaller hooks. Not sure why, but I've gotten away from waxing thread when dubbing. This would save some time. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:23 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- canoe adders
DonO Try the high density foam bed role sold by camping stores for backpackers. Its about 3/8 inch thick, tough, washable, CHEAP and cuts with a sharp knife. its about 6 foot by 18 inch iain I am considering putting some outdoor carpeting in the bottom for sound attenuation, but I want to make sure there are no pitfalls. I think it would need to be stable, yet removable for clean-up. Velcro? Maybe I should glue some water-proof boat carpet down. _ Twice the fun—Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- inline: image001.jpg
[VFB] Step-by-steps... comments?
If you mean hanging it up using the bobbin cradle, then the cradle's horizontal part under the jaws, will block the way completely and you won't be able to get any material under the hook. /Nick -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] För J Balmer Skickat: den 12 februari 2009 16:51 Till: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Ämne: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Don't have the bobbin hanging directly below the hook, have the thread straight out from the hook similar to the way the Nor vise is setup, w/ the bobbin closer to your chest instead of off to the right. It might be a little more awkward, but it would make finishing the weave easier. Think of it as though the hook shank extended out beyond the eye; you're crossing under the thread the same way you're already crossing under the hook. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas (Gmail) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Not sure if I got you right there, but if you mean having the thread tied in during the weaving process, this is hard... since one hand will be moving back and forth under the hook and the bobbin will be hanging in the way. Holding both strands in one hand and wrapping with the other when securing it, is on the other hand nothing different from what I mean... once the thread has been tied in again. /Nick On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: I liked both, the parallel weave in particular. One way to solve the end of weave process is to have the thread tied in where you end ahead of time, hold both strands of woven material in one hand wrap thread w/ the other. As to the touch dubbing, I'll try it on smaller hooks. Not sure why, but I've gotten away from waxing thread when dubbing. This would save some time. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:23 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments?
MeddelandeNick, 1. You are right on with the weave, but I would include more photos with how to end the process or different ways to end up. One can be with hook-shank left over (stonefly tail), using one material to batten down the other down and make the underbody on the front portion. Or, for a weave-to-eye fly, like a soft-hackle, re-attaching the thread to tie both ends down with enough room to finish up. I do a double (or single) rope-dub variation of this weave. Simple, fast, weighted, and durable. The advanced rope-dub DVD #2 will have all of the steps for this. The other weave I use is a overhand knot weave. Here's just one tutorial: http://www.hatchesmagazine.com/page/month/370 2. On the touch-dub, it's a very good technique if you use a dubbing that is suitable for it, like you did- nice job, Jester. I still use the rope-dub to get the same effect with many different dubbings, including synthetics. Again, see DVD #2. ;o) DonO - Original Message - From: Niclas Runarsson To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:23 AM Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- canoe adders
Dono Would it hold up to mud, sand, rocks etc. that are brought into the boat by wading boots? PROBABLY Would it stay put, or would I have to glue it down? NO IDEA DEPENDS HOW YOU MOVE ABOUT CONVEYOR BELTING WOULD STAY PUT ITS WASHABLE BOOT PROOF ETC iain D - Original Message - From: iain short To: VFB-new Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- canoe adders DonO Try the high density foam bed role sold by camping stores for backpackers. Its about 3/8 inch thick, tough, washable, CHEAP and cuts with a sharp knife. its about 6 foot by 18 inch iain I am considering putting some outdoor carpeting in the bottom for sound attenuation, but I want to make sure there are no pitfalls. I think it would need to be stable, yet removable for clean-up. Velcro? Maybe I should glue some water-proof boat carpet down. Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free Find out more! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM _ Check out the new and improved services from Windows Live. Learn more! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12
I thought about building them, but from research I learned that adjustable floats are best, and easy to remove are even better. I haven't experienced yet what the advantages are, but I have read that the outriggers must be up when under motor-drive. Maybe they aren't strong enough to handle the water resistance, or they splash, or work loose with chop, or probably during a turn, the inside float is driven under the surface (bending or breaking it?) and the outer one is up in the air. I bought mine from Cabelas, so if they don't work, I can get my $$ back. Have much to learn, maybe by getting wet. Won't be my 1st time getting dumped out of a canoe by an outside force! Speaking of drowned cell phones...I bought some Magellan fishing shirts when I was in NO, and they are great for $15 (compared to $40 - $60 for my Columbias and Ex-officios), and ea. came with a clear zippered waterproof clip/string-attached pouch (4 x 4) for a cell-phone and other items that can't get wet. The attachment point is inside the chest pockets and that's where it stays with your stuff safe. They have all of the features as the others, but are very inexpensive. I beat up my fishing shirts pretty bad, so these won't be so hard to make rags out of down the road. One thing I learned is not to put my credit card in with my magnetic money clip or my cell-phone while it is on. Seems they mess with the metallic strip on the credit card. So I keep it separate with my DL and fishing license. DonO - Original Message - From: glw...@gundluth.org To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12 Another option for the outriggers: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/storer/outrigger/index.htm -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12
Shirts I mean - not the floats On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com wrote: Did you buy the shirts from a nationwide retail outlet? I would be interested. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:51 AM, DonO f...@tribcsp.com wrote: I thought about building them, but from research I learned that adjustable floats are best, and easy to remove are even better. I haven't experienced yet what the advantages are, but I have read that the outriggers must be up when under motor-drive. Maybe they aren't strong enough to handle the water resistance, or they splash, or work loose with chop, or probably during a turn, the inside float is driven under the surface (bending or breaking it?) and the outer one is up in the air. I bought mine from Cabelas, so if they don't work, I can get my $$ back. Have much to learn, maybe by getting wet. Won't be my 1st time getting dumped out of a canoe by an outside force! Speaking of drowned cell phones...I bought some Magellan fishing shirts when I was in NO, and they are great for $15 (compared to $40 - $60 for my Columbias and Ex-officios), and ea. came with a clear zippered waterproof clip/string-attached pouch (4 x 4) for a cell-phone and other items that can't get wet. The attachment point is inside the chest pockets and that's where it stays with your stuff safe. They have all of the features as the others, but are very inexpensive. I beat up my fishing shirts pretty bad, so these won't be so hard to make rags out of down the road. One thing I learned is not to put my credit card in with my magnetic money clip or my cell-phone while it is on. Seems they mess with the metallic strip on the credit card. So I keep it separate with my DL and fishing license. DonO - Original Message - From: glw...@gundluth.org To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12 Another option for the outriggers: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/storer/outrigger/index.htm -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] BUG SWAP _ HELP
Hey guys my computer died, got a new one, but I lost the list of tyers material list. Anyone have it? I need to match up the names of the flys I have received and who is left. If yours are not in please let me know where you are, flys are due March 1st. Thanks much BobH --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12
It was Academy Sporting Goods in Kenner, La. I found a website with both the long and short sleeve shirts, both under 20 bucks. I can't remember if the shirts I bought were $15.99 or $16.99, but the color they picked for the web-photo is awful. They have a lot of vibrant bright colors to choose from, plus white. They also didn't show that they come with the waterproof pouch. http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=contenttarget=products/apparel/mens/outdoors/all_magellanstart=0selectedSKU=0651-00365-8310 http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=contenttarget=products/apparel/mens/outdoors/all_magellanstart=0selectedSKU=0651-00365-8308 Looks like they are a chain store with outlets all over. I'll also bet you can order just what you want from the website, just will have to add shipping. DonO - Original Message - From: Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:51 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12 Did you buy the shirts from a nationwide retail outlet? I would be interested. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:51 AM, DonO f...@tribcsp.com wrote: I thought about building them, but from research I learned that adjustable floats are best, and easy to remove are even better. I haven't experienced yet what the advantages are, but I have read that the outriggers must be up when under motor-drive. Maybe they aren't strong enough to handle the water resistance, or they splash, or work loose with chop, or probably during a turn, the inside float is driven under the surface (bending or breaking it?) and the outer one is up in the air. I bought mine from Cabelas, so if they don't work, I can get my $$ back. Have much to learn, maybe by getting wet. Won't be my 1st time getting dumped out of a canoe by an outside force! Speaking of drowned cell phones...I bought some Magellan fishing shirts when I was in NO, and they are great for $15 (compared to $40 - $60 for my Columbias and Ex-officios), and ea. came with a clear zippered waterproof clip/string-attached pouch (4 x 4) for a cell-phone and other items that can't get wet. The attachment point is inside the chest pockets and that's where it stays with your stuff safe. They have all of the features as the others, but are very inexpensive. I beat up my fishing shirts pretty bad, so these won't be so hard to make rags out of down the road. One thing I learned is not to put my credit card in with my magnetic money clip or my cell-phone while it is on. Seems they mess with the metallic strip on the credit card. So I keep it separate with my DL and fishing license. DonO - Original Message - From: glw...@gundluth.org To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12 Another option for the outriggers: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/storer/outrigger/index.htm -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: QUOTE FOR THE DAY
Very true, however I am often too eager to start fishing instead of waiting, watching trying to figure out the best holding lies for the fish and then the best metod to approach them without scaring the fish. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, BC Canada _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy D. Moore Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: Fly Fishing World; Virtual Fly Box; Hill Coountry Fly Fishers Subject: [VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY Fish slowly and thoroughly. Haste never pays dividends. Don't whip the stream to a froth. Make fewer casts. Make them to places which count an fish each cast out instead of lifting it prematurely. Ray Bergman Trout º ** JIMMY D. MOOREjdmo...@fishgame.com North Zone Fishing Editor - Texas Fish Game Mag, Author - Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Humorist, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, Member TOWA, Retired Scout Exec. BSA. * º * --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: QUOTE FOR THE DAY
Most of the time i will fish the same spots so the waiting and watching goes faster. From: Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:38 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: QUOTE FOR THE DAY Very true, however I am often too eager to start fishing instead of waiting, watching trying to figure out the best holding lies for the fish and then the best metod to approach them without scaring the fish. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, BC Canada From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy D. Moore Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: Fly Fishing World; Virtual Fly Box; Hill Coountry Fly Fishers Subject: [VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY Fish slowly and thoroughly. Haste never pays dividends. Don't whip the stream to a froth. Make fewer casts. Make them to places which count an fish each cast out instead of lifting it prematurely. Ray Bergman Trout º ** JIMMY D. MOOREjdmo...@fishgame.commailto:jdmo...@fishgame.com North Zone Fishing Editor - Texas Fish Game Mag, Author - Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Humorist, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, Member TOWA, Retired Scout Exec. BSA. * º * This email has been proactively scanned for all known and unknown viruses. This message is now certified Virus-free. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12
Found it - thanks. These look great. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 9:37 AM, DonO f...@tribcsp.com wrote: It was Academy Sporting Goods in Kenner, La. I found a website with both the long and short sleeve shirts, both under 20 bucks. I can't remember if the shirts I bought were $15.99 or $16.99, but the color they picked for the web-photo is awful. They have a lot of vibrant bright colors to choose from, plus white. They also didn't show that they come with the waterproof pouch. http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=contenttarget=products/apparel/mens/outdoors/all_magellanstart=0selectedSKU=0651-00365-8310 http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=contenttarget=products/apparel/mens/outdoors/all_magellanstart=0selectedSKU=0651-00365-8308 Looks like they are a chain store with outlets all over. I'll also bet you can order just what you want from the website, just will have to add shipping. DonO - Original Message - From: Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:51 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12 Did you buy the shirts from a nationwide retail outlet? I would be interested. Mike On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:51 AM, DonO f...@tribcsp.com wrote: I thought about building them, but from research I learned that adjustable floats are best, and easy to remove are even better. I haven't experienced yet what the advantages are, but I have read that the outriggers must be up when under motor-drive. Maybe they aren't strong enough to handle the water resistance, or they splash, or work loose with chop, or probably during a turn, the inside float is driven under the surface (bending or breaking it?) and the outer one is up in the air. I bought mine from Cabelas, so if they don't work, I can get my $$ back. Have much to learn, maybe by getting wet. Won't be my 1st time getting dumped out of a canoe by an outside force! Speaking of drowned cell phones...I bought some Magellan fishing shirts when I was in NO, and they are great for $15 (compared to $40 - $60 for my Columbias and Ex-officios), and ea. came with a clear zippered waterproof clip/string-attached pouch (4 x 4) for a cell-phone and other items that can't get wet. The attachment point is inside the chest pockets and that's where it stays with your stuff safe. They have all of the features as the others, but are very inexpensive. I beat up my fishing shirts pretty bad, so these won't be so hard to make rags out of down the road. One thing I learned is not to put my credit card in with my magnetic money clip or my cell-phone while it is on. Seems they mess with the metallic strip on the credit card. So I keep it separate with my DL and fishing license. DonO - Original Message - From: glw...@gundluth.org To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: [VFB] Re: Test - any buddy out there?- reply 1 thru 12 Another option for the outriggers: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/storer/outrigger/index.htm -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Active Nymphing was QUOTE FOR THE DAY
I am reading a book called Active Nymphing: Aggressive Strategies for Casting, Rigging, And Moving the Nymphs By Rich Osthoff. In the book he talks of moving the nymph, not just like streamer fishing but casting upstream and stripping the nymph (not streamer). I am a dead drifter almost all of the time and this is new to me. Anyone do this and can you shed some perspective on this? Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Active Nymphing was QUOTE FOR THE DAY
Mike, Some species of nymphs are swimmers, some are clingers, some are burrowers. If he is short-stripping a nymph (but not darting), he is probably imitiating a swimmer variety. Dead-drifting works for imitating clingers, and also burrowers that get washed up out of the dirt. All they can do is drift downstream until they hit something they can cling on to, or end up in an eddy (or a gut). Depending on the fish and other circumstances, one way may work and the others won't. One thing that does work for me is the lifting technique, imitating a nymph that is rising to the surface. Whatever way I drift the nymph, at the end of the cast I make a slow deliberate lift to the surface, pausing before I pull the nymph from the water, especially if it ends up in slack water. Like you, my most productive nymphing is dead-drifting with a strike indicator down the seams in the river, where the still or slow water meets the fast water. Next I'll choose area in front of obstructions and then directly behind. If that doesn't work, I'll look for deep pockets and eddies. I have rig-ups and lines for all types of approaches and nymph-sinking methods. In the N. Platte R., that puppy's got to be bouncing along the bottom- seems to trigger the takes. But all of this happens only if the dry-fly fishing is unproductive or if it's just too windy for dries. D - Original Message - From: Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:46 PM Subject: [VFB] Active Nymphing was QUOTE FOR THE DAY I am reading a book called Active Nymphing: Aggressive Strategies for Casting, Rigging, And Moving the Nymphs By Rich Osthoff. In the book he talks of moving the nymph, not just like streamer fishing but casting upstream and stripping the nymph (not streamer). I am a dead drifter almost all of the time and this is new to me. Anyone do this and can you shed some perspective on this? Mike -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 2/11/09 6:11 PM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: BUG SWAP _ HELP
Mine was a disk bug, foam, marabou, rubber legs from ARKANSASJerry McKaughan Caddis Fly Fishers P O Box 85Pottsville, AR 72858 From: haerb...@comcast.netto: vfb-m...@googlegroups.comsubject: [VFB] BUG SWAP _ HELPDate: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:03:36 -0500 Hey guys my computer died, got a new one, but I lost the list of tyers material list. Anyone have it? I need to match up the names of the flys I have received and who is left. If yours are not in please let me know where you are, flys are due March 1st. Thanks much BobH_ Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: BUG SWAP _ HELP
I'm tying copper johns and will be finishing them next week. Jim Hodson
--- On Thu, 2/12/09, J McK woodenleg...@hotmail.com wrote:
From: J McK woodenleg...@hotmail.com
Subject: [VFB] Re: BUG SWAP _ HELP
To: Fly Swap vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 5:48 PM
#yiv199646652 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv199646652 {
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Mine was a disk bug, foam, marabou, rubber legs from ARKANSAS
Jerry McKaughan
Caddis Fly Fishers
P O Box 85
Pottsville, AR 72858
From: haerb...@comcast.net
To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
Subject: [VFB] BUG SWAP _ HELP
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:03:36 -0500
#yiv199646652 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv199646652 .ExternalClass
li.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv199646652 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal
{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';}
#yiv199646652 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv199646652 .ExternalClass
span.EC_MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv199646652 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv199646652 .ExternalClass
span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv199646652 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle17
{font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';color:windowtext;}
#yiv199646652 .ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault
{}
_filtered #yiv199646652 {}
#yiv199646652 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1
{}
Hey guys my computer died, got a new one, but I lost the list of tyers
material list. Anyone have it? I need to match up the names of the flys I
have received and who is left. If yours are not in please let me know where
you are, flys are due March 1st.
Thanks much
BobH
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group.
To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments?
The Nor Vise has a vertical rod opposite the vise jaws w/ a button on the side. When you hang the bobbin over the button, the thread is straight out from the hook, leaving both hands free to manipulate material. Also makes dubbing easy, because you spin the vise head. For your weaving process, all I have to do is turn the pedestal that the vise is on sideways. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:46 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? If you mean hanging it up using the bobbin cradle, then the cradle's horizontal part under the jaws, will block the way completely and you won't be able to get any material under the hook. /Nick -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] För J Balmer Skickat: den 12 februari 2009 16:51 Till: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Ämne: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Don't have the bobbin hanging directly below the hook, have the thread straight out from the hook similar to the way the Nor vise is setup, w/ the bobbin closer to your chest instead of off to the right. It might be a little more awkward, but it would make finishing the weave easier. Think of it as though the hook shank extended out beyond the eye; you're crossing under the thread the same way you're already crossing under the hook. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas (Gmail) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Not sure if I got you right there, but if you mean having the thread tied in during the weaving process, this is hard... since one hand will be moving back and forth under the hook and the bobbin will be hanging in the way. Holding both strands in one hand and wrapping with the other when securing it, is on the other hand nothing different from what I mean... once the thread has been tied in again. /Nick On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: I liked both, the parallel weave in particular. One way to solve the end of weave process is to have the thread tied in where you end ahead of time, hold both strands of woven material in one hand wrap thread w/ the other. As to the touch dubbing, I'll try it on smaller hooks. Not sure why, but I've gotten away from waxing thread when dubbing. This would save some time. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:23 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them? http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/parallelweave_steps.htm http://www.swedneckflyfishing.com/touchdubbing_steps.htm /Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: BUG SWAP _ HELP
You should already have mine, it was a nymph John Bennett Engineer Tech W-(801)513-9001 F-(801)728-1970 E- jcbenn...@lifetime.com From: haerb...@comcast.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] BUG SWAP _ HELP Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:03:36 -0500 Hey guys my computer died, got a new one, but I lost the list of tyers material list. Anyone have it? I need to match up the names of the flys I have received and who is left. If yours are not in please let me know where you are, flys are due March 1st. Thanks much BobH This email has been proactively scanned for all known and unknown viruses. This message is now certified Virus-free. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Step-by-steps... comments?
I'm not sure we're talking about the same weave here anymore. I thought 'Aaaah... with a Norvise maybe' (which offers more space under the hook than a bobbin cradle does). So I tried simulating a Norvise setup using two vises... the second one closer to me, just holding the thread. But it still doesn't work. You get to Step 4 (on my SBS)... but when you then, on Step 5, are to lay back the right hand strand over the hook, you have to go with your right hand between your left and the hook. You can't go with your right hand over the hook and under your left here, because there you will have the thread closing the door. On the Step 5 picture, it would be like closing the way between the hook eye and the bottom of the picture... which needs to be open for your right hand to get that strand over the hook, but under the left hand strand. I just can't see a way to get around this without letting go of the strands. This is just like wrapping a material having a waiting thread in front of it... with the bobbin hanging under the hook. It can be done because you still can get your hand between the bobbin and the table. But when hanging it up (on Norvise rod or regular bobbin cradle), the one hand wrapping doesn't work anymore, since the hook eye technically has been connected to the back of the hook (through thread, rod, bench, vise). Using this weave with a bobbin hanging under the hook is very uncomfortable, but still possible. But when the door between the hook eye and the hook bend is closed, then it's impossible without having to let go of materials during the weaving process. At least this is what I have come up with after experimenting now... /Nick -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] För J Balmer Skickat: den 13 februari 2009 00:35 Till: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Ämne: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? The Nor Vise has a vertical rod opposite the vise jaws w/ a button on the side. When you hang the bobbin over the button, the thread is straight out from the hook, leaving both hands free to manipulate material. Also makes dubbing easy, because you spin the vise head. For your weaving process, all I have to do is turn the pedestal that the vise is on sideways. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:46 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? If you mean hanging it up using the bobbin cradle, then the cradle's horizontal part under the jaws, will block the way completely and you won't be able to get any material under the hook. /Nick -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] För J Balmer Skickat: den 12 februari 2009 16:51 Till: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Ämne: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Don't have the bobbin hanging directly below the hook, have the thread straight out from the hook similar to the way the Nor vise is setup, w/ the bobbin closer to your chest instead of off to the right. It might be a little more awkward, but it would make finishing the weave easier. Think of it as though the hook shank extended out beyond the eye; you're crossing under the thread the same way you're already crossing under the hook. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas (Gmail) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: Step-by-steps... comments? Not sure if I got you right there, but if you mean having the thread tied in during the weaving process, this is hard... since one hand will be moving back and forth under the hook and the bobbin will be hanging in the way. Holding both strands in one hand and wrapping with the other when securing it, is on the other hand nothing different from what I mean... once the thread has been tied in again. /Nick On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: I liked both, the parallel weave in particular. One way to solve the end of weave process is to have the thread tied in where you end ahead of time, hold both strands of woven material in one hand wrap thread w/ the other. As to the touch dubbing, I'll try it on smaller hooks. Not sure why, but I've gotten away from waxing thread when dubbing. This would save some time. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:23 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Step-by-steps... comments? I have made two technique step-by-steps, Parallel Weave and Touchdubbing. It's online but has not been linked to from the main site yet. I thought I would fish some on the list first (and with 'fish', I don't mean just from you, Allan). Anyone having any comments on them?
[VFB] Re: Active Nymphing was QUOTE FOR THE DAY
I do a lot of nymphing in tailwaters. I generally cast upstream work my way down stream until I find a pattern that works, especially when the water is high. Sometimes I swim it, sometimes I'll do a drift lift, but what works in those waters quite often when the water is moving is casting across stream stripping on the swing. J -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bliss Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 2:47 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Active Nymphing was QUOTE FOR THE DAY I am reading a book called Active Nymphing: Aggressive Strategies for Casting, Rigging, And Moving the Nymphs By Rich Osthoff. In the book he talks of moving the nymph, not just like streamer fishing but casting upstream and stripping the nymph (not streamer). I am a dead drifter almost all of the time and this is new to me. Anyone do this and can you shed some perspective on this? Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[VFB] Re: BUG SWAP _ HELP
Mine was tagged The Barking Duck. J _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John C. Bennett Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:53 PM To: 'vfb-mail@googlegroups.com' Subject: [VFB] Re: BUG SWAP _ HELP You should already have mine, it was a nymph John Bennett Engineer Tech W-(801)513-9001 F-(801)728-1970 E- jcbenn...@lifetime.com _ From: haerb...@comcast.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] BUG SWAP _ HELP Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:03:36 -0500 Hey guys my computer died, got a new one, but I lost the list of tyers material list. Anyone have it? I need to match up the names of the flys I have received and who is left. If yours are not in please let me know where you are, flys are due March 1st. Thanks much BobH This email has been proactively scanned for all known and unknown viruses. This message is now certified Virus-free. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
