[videoblogging] flickr to support video soon
At the end of this post on yahoo photos shutting down Stewart says flickr will support video soon. http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of-yahoo-photos-tomorrow/ -- Steve Rhodes http://ari.typepad.com http://tigerbeat.vox.com blogs http://flickr.com/photos/ari/ photos http://del.icio.us/tigerbeat interesting articles sites http://twitter.com/tigerbeat
[videoblogging] Re: flickr to support video soon
LOL. Or you could use Blip.tv to upload and distribute your videos and Mefeedia.com to track and organize all interesting videos. seemed to work for Videoblogging Week! :) Does this mean that Flickr will also replace Yahoo! Video too? -Frank Frank Sinton CEO, Mefeedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover, Collect, and Share great videos Our blog: http://mefeedia.com/blog --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, I was there when Stewart told us that. But, keep in mind that Stewart told me the same thing almost a year ago. So, we're still trying to figure out what his definition of soon is. :-) Robert _ From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Rhodes Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:35 PM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] flickr to support video soon At the end of this post on yahoo photos shutting down Stewart says flickr will support video soon. http://www.techcrun http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of- yahoo-photos-tomorrow/ ch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of-yahoo-photos-tomorro w/ -- Steve Rhodes http://ari.typepad. http://ari.typepad.com com http://tigerbeat. http://tigerbeat.vox.com vox.com blogs http://flickr. http://flickr.com/photos/ari/ com/photos/ari/ photos http://del.icio. http://del.icio.us/tigerbeat us/tigerbeat interesting articles sites http://twitter. http://twitter.com/tigerbeat com/tigerbeat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Pixelodeon attendees
Hi Jay, Is there a schedule for the Festival? I don't see any times for that weekend it would help in figuring out the logistics. I will see what the Mefeedia team can do to help - the festival is only about 15 minutes from our headquarters in Burbank, so any logistics, etc. that need to be figured out, we can help. On places to stay, north of Sunset and west of Western is the best bet. Also, little trivia fact: the late night diner scene in Swingers (Mikey is all growns up) was filmed at The Best Western Hollywood Hills Hotel that is close by AFI. Not a bad place, but very close to the highway. -Frank Frank Sinton CEO, Mefeedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover, Collect, and Enjoy great videos Our blog: http://mefeedia.com/blog --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok...we need to find a common place to stay. This is my first vlog event and I am so excited to meet people :) I'm on it. I may need to weekend to nail it down though. It'll be great to see everyone who comes out. Like at Vloggerconall vlogger will get in. I'll guarantee a place to stay for any videoblogger who makes it to LA. just email me offlist so I know how much space we need to get. Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Put up or shut up
Ah. Now, we make progress. Jan On 5/3/07, Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: any mistakes will be corrected Of that I have NO doubt! ;-) Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay Dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool Heath. Its just a wiki, so do what you want. Trust meany mistakes will be corrected. For now, we're using the discussion page on the article to agree on what we want to include. Then we write and cite. Jay -Original Message- From: Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 21:48:20 To:videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] Re: Put up or shut up I added my questions there, I have no idea what I am doing but I added my questions Heath http://batmangeek.: http://batmangeek.com com --- In videoblogging@: mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman jay.dedman@ wrote: Okayif you care about the wikipedia article on Videoblogging, lets take all the conversation to that site. Ive jumped in here: http://en.wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Video_blog#Removed_section:_Dispute _ .org/wiki/Talk:Video_blog#Removed_section:_Dispute_ over_terminology Pdelongchamp, since you seem to have a vision for this page, maybe you can share with us where you want this go. Or are you just being a referee as people make contributions? It'll help me understand exactly what role you are playing in this process. I am assuming good faith, but it's unclear to me where you're mind is at. What is Videoblogging to you? With all the articles and books listed so far, it's difficult to say that it's not a significant artform. I think it would help if we could all agree on the major areas we want to cover. Let's document the discussion/writing over there so its official. To be honest, I read wikipedia all the time, but have never contributed to an article. So it'll be new to me. Patrick, I'm going to take you at your word that you're working in good faith. let's start building. there are so many mainstream articles, books, and scholarly reports to pull from. Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.: http://jaydedman.com com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfe: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ st.com/ Webvideo festival this June Yahoo! Groups Links -- The Faux Press - better than real http://fauxpress.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/fauxpress [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] new to the group [ user generated ad idea]
Hey, Anil - I've got a practical way for us to test this idea in the real world. Contact me off list - jannie dot jan at gmail dot com :) Welcome to the vlogosphere. Jan On 5/3/07, Anil Banskota [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear all, i am anil banskota. i go to new york univ. ITP(interactive telecomm. program). dina kaplan of blip.tv recommended me the group . currently i'm working on a THESIS project which is about creating a market place for user-generated-ads. i only have a crude working prototype and users can upload file 8mb or lesser for now. the url is : www.hyperadsbyu.com my biggest concern is the legal implications that surface with user-generated-ads. what kind of protection are there - where can i start to research. also i'm kinda new to the US. from Nepal. thanks all, anil --- Yahoo! Groups Notification [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, The moderator of the videoblogging group has approved your request for membership. Here are a few key tips to get you started: * To learn more about the videoblogging group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging * To post a message to this group, send email to videoblogging@yahoogroups.com * To contact the moderator of this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for choosing Yahoo! Groups as your email group service. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Anil K Banskota __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links -- The Faux Press - better than real http://fauxpress.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/fauxpress [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Pixelodeon attendees
Jay - I'm doing a bit the research on the hotels. I've got a few contenders but because of my schedule I can't get to Hollywood until Saturday afternoon. I promise, I'll have pictures and the straight skivvy. I don't want to depend on just web research. I know the area but have never needed a Hollywood hotel. I just don't want folks to stay at a bed bug resort. And for the record, Hollywood does have it charms. And scare this group? naw... Last I check Upcoming there were 62 and counting. Gena --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok...we need to find a common place to stay. This is my first vlog event and I am so excited to meet people :) I'm on it. I may need to weekend to nail it down though. It'll be great to see everyone who comes out. Like at Vloggerconall vlogger will get in. I'll guarantee a place to stay for any videoblogger who makes it to LA. just email me offlist so I know how much space we need to get. Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Pixelodeon attendees
Is there a schedule for the Festival? I don't see any times for that weekend it would help in figuring out the logistics. I will see what the Mefeedia team can do to help - the festival is only about 15 minutes from our headquarters in Burbank, so any logistics, etc. that need to be figured out, we can help. Rick Rey is doing the site site. should be done next week with schedule, list of curators and screenings, speakers, workshops etc. we're only selling about 130 tickets for the main screening room if you care about having a guaranteed seat for speakers. If not...it's all freewith 3 screening rooms plus a community space for whatever we want to happen. Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Pixelodeon attendees
Jay - I'm doing a bit the research on the hotels. I've got a few contenders but because of my schedule I can't get to Hollywood until Saturday afternoon. I promise, I'll have pictures and the straight skivvy. I don't want to depend on just web research. I know the area but have never needed a Hollywood hotel. I just don't want folks to stay at a bed bug resort. And for the record, Hollywood does have it charms. coolphotos/video will be nice. we should have choose between a motel right there by the venue...and a motel that's a little farther away but in the middle of all the action (cheap coffee shops and the distracted importance of the hollywood scene) Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June
Re: [videoblogging] flickr to support video soon
At the end of this post on yahoo photos shutting down Stewart says flickr will support video soon. http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of-yahoo-photos-tomorrow/ This would make sense Seems Yahoo is finally starting to integrate all its serviceslike the way Google has done it. if you use Upcomingyou notice its now http://upcoming.yahoo.com/. Flickr will probably just use the functionality of Yahoo video. what would be more weird is if Microsoft bought yahoo: http://mashable.com/2007/05/04/microsoft-yahoo/ Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June
[videoblogging] Re: flickr to support video soon
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, I was there when Stewart told us that. But, keep in mind that Stewart told me the same thing almost a year ago. So, we're still trying to figure out what his definition of soon is. That's the problem with listening to God. ;) :-) Robert _ From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Rhodes Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:35 PM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] flickr to support video soon At the end of this post on yahoo photos shutting down Stewart says flickr will support video soon. http://www.techcrun http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of- yahoo-photos-tomorrow/ ch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of-yahoo-photos-tomorro w/ -- Steve Rhodes http://ari.typepad. http://ari.typepad.com com http://tigerbeat. http://tigerbeat.vox.com vox.com blogs http://flickr. http://flickr.com/photos/ari/ com/photos/ari/ photos http://del.icio. http://del.icio.us/tigerbeat us/tigerbeat interesting articles sites http://twitter. http://twitter.com/tigerbeat com/tigerbeat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Vlogumentary (don't sue me Chuck Olsen)
I started a whole new wiki because I thought this would need more than a few pages. I'd like people to post stories and photos and videos - not just collect links. It would be cool if you could go there and read and watch stuff for hours. - Verdi On 5/4/07, ryanne hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there is a page here that starts that: http://videoblogginggroup.pbwiki.com/The%20History%20of%20the%20Videoblogging%20Group maybe we merge them.. -ry On 5/3/07, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED]michael%40michaelverdi.com wrote: Maybe this is crazy but I feel like this whole Wikipedia thing has turned back time 3 years or something. Here we are trying to figure out what the rules are; what we're allowed to say; what will pass the litmus test. Oh the irony! I can't take it anymore. The idea of making a videoblogging piece similar in spirit to Chuck Olsen's Blogumentary has been floating around since at least the first vloggercon. What if we used our own wiki (with our own rules or lack of rules) to collect stories and videos (!) about the history of videoblogging? You can post stories, pictures, old videos, new videos, quote blogs and vlogs and your local paper - whatever you need to get the point across. Maybe some day someone will take all of that a make a film or a book out of it. If that happens we can add that to the wiki too! We don't have to come up with some ultimate definition of videoblogging that everyone agrees on. Just document what happened and what's currently happening. The definition can be found in there and can change as we change. Maybe we can even try not to delete each others stuff. If you disagree, write your own version of the events. Soon we'll all forget what happened; how it evolved and we'll either have something like this wiki to tell our history or we'll be stuck with whatever is allowed on Wikipedia or gets published in the real media. We're videobloggers - we know how to do this. Check it out - http://vlogumentary.pbwiki.com - Verdi -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs -- Pixelodeon-June 9th 10th American Film Institute (AFI) LA, CA From the Computer Screen to the Big Screen http://pixelodeonfest.com/ -- Author of Secrets of Videoblogging http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Me http://RyanEdit.com, http://RyanIsHungry.com Educate http://FreeVlog.org, http://Node101.org Community Capitalism http://HaveMoneyWillVlog.com iChat/AIM VideoRodeo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Video Blog Wikipedia Entry
On 5/3/07, Patrick Delongchamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that sources that require subscriptions are heavily discouraged. I've never looked up student newspapers though. I'd say there's a good chance they're ok. You should check it out. ... does this mean The Journal of Experimental Psychology or Science or the New England Journal of Medicine are discouraged a reliable sources? (Since they require a subscription?) ... just trying to understand ... Richard -- Richard http://richardhhall.org Shows http://richardshow.org http://inspiredhealing.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Youtube videos available as MP4 downloads
Broken link, buddy!
Re: [videoblogging] Put up or shut up
Ok, for the record, if the article you refer to is in a peer-reviewed jornal, it's gone through at least as much serious scrutiny as anything published in a book or via a traditional news media source In fact, in a serious journal, if I try using a magazine/news article as a reference, it would not be acceptable. ... Richard p.s. I'm not saying I agree with the whole definition of reliable article in wikipedia, or that the academic peer-review process is the best as far as truth goes, but, I will say academics have been having this debate for a long time and, as a result - via the peer review process - they have, by far, the most brutal (tedious, time consuming) process of verification and cross verification of any sort if informational outlet, but, lord help us if we're stuck with that :) On 5/3/07, trine bjørkmann berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i dont know if it's helpful, but I've added my short article on david cameron's videoblog to the wikipedia article. (under all the book entries) - i realise it's not on par with the books in terms of citeability, but it's academic and published in a journal. cheers Trine On 5/3/07, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] jay.dedman%40gmail.com wrote: Okayif you care about the wikipedia article on Videoblogging, lets take all the conversation to that site. Ive jumped in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Video_blog#Removed_section:_Dispute_over_terminology Pdelongchamp, since you seem to have a vision for this page, maybe you can share with us where you want this go. Or are you just being a referee as people make contributions? It'll help me understand exactly what role you are playing in this process. I am assuming good faith, but it's unclear to me where you're mind is at. What is Videoblogging to you? With all the articles and books listed so far, it's difficult to say that it's not a significant artform. I think it would help if we could all agree on the major areas we want to cover. Let's document the discussion/writing over there so its official. To be honest, I read wikipedia all the time, but have never contributed to an article. So it'll be new to me. Patrick, I'm going to take you at your word that you're working in good faith. let's start building. there are so many mainstream articles, books, and scholarly reports to pull from. Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] trine.berry%40gmail.com trine.blogs.com twitter.com/trine -- Richard http://richardhhall.org Shows http://richardshow.org http://inspiredhealing.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Vlogumentary (don't sue me Chuck Olsen)
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe this is crazy but I feel like this whole Wikipedia thing has turned back time 3 years or something. Here we are trying to figure out what the rules are; what we're allowed to say; what will pass the litmus test. Oh the irony! I can't take it anymore. The idea of making a videoblogging piece similar in spirit to Chuck Olsen's Blogumentary has been floating around since at least the first vloggercon. What if we used our own wiki (with our own rules or lack of rules) to collect stories and videos (!) about the history of videoblogging? You can post stories, pictures, old videos, new videos, quote blogs and vlogs and your local paper - whatever you need to get the point across. Maybe some day someone will take all of that a make a film or a book out of it. If that happens we can add that to the wiki too! We don't have to come up with some ultimate definition of videoblogging that everyone agrees on. Just document what happened and what's currently happening. The definition can be found in there and can change as we change. Maybe we can even try not to delete each others stuff. If you disagree, write your own version of the events. Soon we'll all forget what happened; how it evolved and we'll either have something like this wiki to tell our history or we'll be stuck with whatever is allowed on Wikipedia or gets published in the real media. Good method. I'll start by documenting points about my vlogs and net video software. I'll try to be concise and salient. The problem may be that some will be long and promotional. -- Enric -==- http://cirne.com We're videobloggers - we know how to do this. Check it out - http://vlogumentary.pbwiki.com - Verdi -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs
Re: [videoblogging] flickr to support video soon
As Stewart told me over a year ago, That is not not in the realm of possibility. Yes, the two nots were intentional. They've been talking about it for a long time; I do know they understand that video is not the same as pictures. Schlomo http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://weknowhow.tv http://winkshow.com http://hatfactory.net On 5/3/07, Jackson West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vy intarestink. JW On 5/3/07, Steve Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] srhodes%40gmail.com wrote: At the end of this post on yahoo photos shutting down Stewart says flickr will support video soon. http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/03/breaking-yahoo-to-announce-closure-of-yahoo-photos-tomorrow/ -- Steve Rhodes http://ari.typepad.com http://tigerbeat.vox.com blogs http://flickr.com/photos/ari/ photos http://del.icio.us/tigerbeat interesting articles sites http://twitter.com/tigerbeat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Vlogumentary (don't sue me Chuck Olsen)
On 5/4/07, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good method. I'll start by documenting points about my vlogs and net video software. I'll try to be concise and salient. The problem may be that some will be long and promotional. What I see happening as year pages fill up is that specific events or developments can move to their own page so they can have as much detail as they want and the year page can contain a short summary. - Verdi
Re: [videoblogging] Youtube videos available as MP4 downloads
Try Mux.cruxy.com for downloading and converting videos from most any site or url. -nathan On 5/4/07, wjbookman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Broken link, buddy! -- cruxy power tools for digital creators http://blog.cruxy.com skype:nathanialfreitas
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Vlogumentary (don't sue me Chuck Olsen)
i've been looking through the yahoo group archive and finding people's introduction emails. they are great to read, like we're meeting you all over again! very cool. i linked to some on the wiki... makes for great reading. On 5/4/07, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/4/07, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] enric%40cirne.com wrote: Good method. I'll start by documenting points about my vlogs and net video software. I'll try to be concise and salient. The problem may be that some will be long and promotional. What I see happening as year pages fill up is that specific events or developments can move to their own page so they can have as much detail as they want and the year page can contain a short summary. - Verdi -- Pixelodeon-June 9th 10th American Film Institute (AFI) LA, CA From the Computer Screen to the Big Screen http://pixelodeonfest.com/ -- Author of Secrets of Videoblogging http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Me http://RyanEdit.com, http://RyanIsHungry.com Educate http://FreeVlog.org, http://Node101.org Community Capitalism http://HaveMoneyWillVlog.com iChat/AIM VideoRodeo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] combined audio video feeds in itunes?
I have a friend with an audio podcast feed available in itunes. He wants to start posting vlogs. Is there any danger to mixing up audio and video? Or should I make a separate feed? I've never messed with audio podcasts so not sure what to be careful about. THANKS! -halcyon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Vlogumentary (don't sue me Chuck Olsen)
yea, I just found mine...http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/32550 how lame was I?! ;-) Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, ryanne hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've been looking through the yahoo group archive and finding people's introduction emails. they are great to read, like we're meeting you all over again! very cool. i linked to some on the wiki... makes for great reading. On 5/4/07, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/4/07, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] enric%40cirne.com wrote: Good method. I'll start by documenting points about my vlogs and net video software. I'll try to be concise and salient. The problem may be that some will be long and promotional. What I see happening as year pages fill up is that specific events or developments can move to their own page so they can have as much detail as they want and the year page can contain a short summary. - Verdi -- Pixelodeon-June 9th 10th American Film Institute (AFI) LA, CA From the Computer Screen to the Big Screen http://pixelodeonfest.com/ -- Author of Secrets of Videoblogging http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Me http://RyanEdit.com, http://RyanIsHungry.com Educate http://FreeVlog.org, http://Node101.org Community Capitalism http://HaveMoneyWillVlog.com iChat/AIM VideoRodeo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] a rare video from me
I don't have much time to make video these days, which is a sad thing, but every now and then I have a chance. Since we launched our site Cruxy this week, and I have a bit reprieve from writing code for the moment, I decided it would be a good time to start digging through footage and seeing what I might come up with I'm pretty proud of this interview I shot back in January with some really funny creative dancers out of LA who are trying to build a media empire (some day!): http://blog.cruxy.com/blog/?p=179 +Nathan -- cruxy power tools for digital creators http://blog.cruxy.com skype:nathanialfreitas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Put up or shut up
yes i wasn't being clear, i actually meant my article might not be useful as a source for citing definitions of videoblogs, as it's about colonisation of new media spaces by politicians. :) I'll write that one next ;-) On 5/4/07, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, for the record, if the article you refer to is in a peer-reviewed jornal, it's gone through at least as much serious scrutiny as anything published in a book or via a traditional news media source In fact, in a serious journal, if I try using a magazine/news article as a reference, it would not be acceptable. ... Richard p.s. I'm not saying I agree with the whole definition of reliable article in wikipedia, or that the academic peer-review process is the best as far as truth goes, but, I will say academics have been having this debate for a long time and, as a result - via the peer review process - they have, by far, the most brutal (tedious, time consuming) process of verification and cross verification of any sort if informational outlet, but, lord help us if we're stuck with that :) On 5/3/07, trine bjørkmann berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i dont know if it's helpful, but I've added my short article on david cameron's videoblog to the wikipedia article. (under all the book entries) - i realise it's not on par with the books in terms of citeability, but it's academic and published in a journal. cheers Trine On 5/3/07, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] jay.dedman%40gmail.com wrote: Okayif you care about the wikipedia article on Videoblogging, lets take all the conversation to that site. Ive jumped in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Video_blog#Removed_section:_Dispute_over_terminology Pdelongchamp, since you seem to have a vision for this page, maybe you can share with us where you want this go. Or are you just being a referee as people make contributions? It'll help me understand exactly what role you are playing in this process. I am assuming good faith, but it's unclear to me where you're mind is at. What is Videoblogging to you? With all the articles and books listed so far, it's difficult to say that it's not a significant artform. I think it would help if we could all agree on the major areas we want to cover. Let's document the discussion/writing over there so its official. To be honest, I read wikipedia all the time, but have never contributed to an article. So it'll be new to me. Patrick, I'm going to take you at your word that you're working in good faith. let's start building. there are so many mainstream articles, books, and scholarly reports to pull from. Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] trine.berry%40gmail.com trine.blogs.com twitter.com/trine -- Richard http://richardhhall.org Shows http://richardshow.org http://inspiredhealing.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] trine.blogs.com twitter.com/trine
[videoblogging] AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
Re: [videoblogging] AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Hello Justin, Isn't AFTRA just a labor union for actors in radio and television. And as such... you don't have to have any relation with them if you don't want to. jurisdiction is most likely the wrong word. What they probably meant is that they can accept vloggers into their union too. (In addition to all the others in there.) But you don't have to join that union. They may have used the word jurisdiction to (somewhat mislead you and to) push and pressure you to join. (After all... the more people who are in it, the more dues they get and the more power they have.) They'd probably love to get vloggers in there too. See ya On 5/4/07, Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/
Re: [videoblogging] AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I can answer some questions...
- Original Message
From: Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2007 2:04:28 PM
Subject: [videoblogging] AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Hey folks;
One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated
production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA
knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction
over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work
out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast.
Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm
completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I
presume I must be late to the table on this.
Anyone have any negotiating tips?
Cheers.
Justin Kownacki
Producer, Something to Be Desired
http://www.somethin gtobedesired. com
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[videoblogging] Archive.org site dowm
Is it just me or is the archive.org site down? Shel. -- www.icenrye.com www.icenrye.blogspot.com www.icenryelikes.blogspot.com
[videoblogging] Re: Archive.org site dowm
Its working for me in the UK. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Sheldon Pineo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it just me or is the archive.org site down? Shel. -- www.icenrye.com www.icenrye.blogspot.com www.icenryelikes.blogspot.com
[videoblogging] Re: Archive.org site dowm
On 5/4/07, Sheldon Pineo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it just me or is the archive.org site down? That was quick! Seems fine now.
[videoblogging] Yackpack walkie talkie on wikis
We're over on http://vlogumentary.pbwiki.com/ voice chatting live using a Yackpack widget in the sidebar. It's like a Walkie Talkie - you click and hold to talk. The number on the widget shows the number of people looking online right now. I don't know if anyone's announced the vlogumentary wiki yet - but it's great. A history of videoblogging by us. I've also set up the yackpack widget on the main group wiki: http://videoblogginggroup.pbwiki.com/ If you go there and see a number higher than 1 in the sidebar widget, you can click talk and scare the bejeezus out of someone. Rupert
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Its not so much that they have jurisdiction over the web, (lthough they use that phrase themselves) so much as there are probably now enough people working in new media that they've decided to focus some attention on that area. See this press release: http://www.aftra.com/press/pr_2007_04_16_new_media_wrkgrp.html This sort of stuff is pretty much a non-issue if you are an individual vlogging, or do not employ people. But if you start to resemble a traditional employer of actors etc, you are going to run into a minefield that people in the traditional media, holywood, etc, will have many decades of experience with. I dont know enough about this stuff to talk further on it, but whilst I support the concept of labour organising, and ensuring there isnt mass explotation by unscrupulous employers, some aspects of this stuff is likely to resemble some of the worst aspects of the guilds that had so much power in Europe hundreds of years ago. These guilds and unions probably wont have much trouble adapting to commercial new media, but some of the ideas of blogging vlogging in the broader non-commercial sense, eg, shock-horror, non-union amateurs 'taking the pros jobs', might lead to considerable battles in the future. Its one of the funny contradictions about the USA from where Im sitting, the seemingly all-pervasive free-market ideology, has some exceptions when it comes to certain strong guilds with power. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
[videoblogging] Nick Douglas joins Vlog Deathmatch
Latest addition to the lineup: Nick Douglas of lookshiny.com http://VlogDeathmatch.com -- Bill C. BillCammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Bill Cammack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Posted my Vlog Deathmatch Music Video Challenge Promo: http://vlogdeathmatch.blogspot.com/2007/05/bill-cammack-vlog-deathmatch-promo.html or http://tinyurl.com/369q7p Also, Rupert Howe is the latest addition to the Vlog Deathmatch lineup. :) * Rupert Howe - http://twittervlog.blogspot.com -- Bill C. BillCammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Bill Cammack BillCammack@ wrote: http://VlogDeathmatch.com Vlog Deathmatch Music Video Challenge welcomes Irina Slutsky! :D Current Lineup: (eMail BillC@ to join to the lineup) * Vergel Evans - Lx7.ca * Bill Cammack - ReelSolid.tv * Drew Olanoff - SCRIGGITY.com * Chuck Olsen - blogumentary.typepad.com * Adam Quirk - wreckandsalvage.com * Michael Verdi - michaelverdi.com * Bonny The Bui Brothers - NoodleScar.com * Nathan Miller - bicycle-sidewalk.com * Becca Havens - missbhavens.blogspot.com * Erik Nelson - wreckandsalvage.com * Irina Slutsky - geekentertainment.tv --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Bill Cammack BillCammack@ wrote: Sweet. Added. :) --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk, Wreck Salvage quirk@ wrote: I'm in. On 4/27/07, Bill Cammack BillCammack@ wrote: The battle lines have been drawn in the vlogosphere. Use your vlog skills to make the ultimate music video the only way that matters -- by videoblogging. http://vlogdeathmatch.com/ Email BillC@ if you want to be involved! Current Lineup: Vergel Evans - http://Lx7.ca Bill Cammack - http://ReelSolid.tv Drew Olanoff - http://SCRIGGITY.com Chuck Olsen - http://blogumentary.typepad.com/ DEADLINE TO SUBMIT: May 14, 2007 -- Bill C. http://BillCammack.com Yahoo! Groups Links -- Adam Quirk Wreck Salvage 551.208.4644 Brooklyn, NY http://wreckandsalvage.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Another potential problem such orgs may have is with the concept of stuff being freely redistributable forever. They tend to be used to negotiating contracts where the talent gets more money when shows are repeated, etc. For example they caused some problems to internet radio some years ago, I dont know whats happened with this sort of thing since: http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=7105 Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its not so much that they have jurisdiction over the web, (lthough they use that phrase themselves) so much as there are probably now enough people working in new media that they've decided to focus some attention on that area. See this press release: http://www.aftra.com/press/pr_2007_04_16_new_media_wrkgrp.html This sort of stuff is pretty much a non-issue if you are an individual vlogging, or do not employ people. But if you start to resemble a traditional employer of actors etc, you are going to run into a minefield that people in the traditional media, holywood, etc, will have many decades of experience with. I dont know enough about this stuff to talk further on it, but whilst I support the concept of labour organising, and ensuring there isnt mass explotation by unscrupulous employers, some aspects of this stuff is likely to resemble some of the worst aspects of the guilds that had so much power in Europe hundreds of years ago. These guilds and unions probably wont have much trouble adapting to commercial new media, but some of the ideas of blogging vlogging in the broader non-commercial sense, eg, shock-horror, non-union amateurs 'taking the pros jobs', might lead to considerable battles in the future. Its one of the funny contradictions about the USA from where Im sitting, the seemingly all-pervasive free-market ideology, has some exceptions when it comes to certain strong guilds with power. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kownacki jkownacki@ wrote: Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
Re: [videoblogging] Request for user ban on Wikipedia videoblogging article
Hey everyone, I know there's about zero interest left in this. (i feel the same way, i would have dropped it a long time ago if it weren't for my wiki account on the chopping block) Just wanted to report that the Ban Request has been closed with results pasted below. Thankfully, if anything good came out of this it's that there's some good discussions going on in the talk page and the article has gained a lot of sources. I'd like to get a third party Admin to check out the article in a week or so and give us some tips comments. Hopefully, someone'll throw in some book citations. Good weekend and let's hope for a calmer Monday. Community sanction discussion Well, what I see there, in for example this edit[1], is the example of dictionary definitions and a link farm. I'm sure you were trying to help, but that edit really *would* need a lot of improvement. Wikipedia is not[2] the dictionary, though we do have a sister project, Wiktionary,[3] which you might wish to look at if you want to write dictionary definitions. Also, please note that, to be quite frank, I couldn't care less who any of you are, up to and including if you invented the Internet. We write from reliable sources,[4] never our own knowledge, thoughts, or experience[5], so it really doesn't matter a bit who an editor is. If Linus Torvalds[6] came along to edit the Linux[7] article, he'd *still* be expected to source. (And deal with me asking about a few bugfixes. But that's a different story.) From what I can see, Pdelongchamp has been doing a great job keeping laundry lists[8], dictionary definitions[9], material sourced to blogs, and such things out of the article. You'd probably not do badly to *listen to him*, and work at improving the article. Most of the material I can see that Pdelongchamp is removing really isn't acceptable. - Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Video_blogdiff=127290390oldid=127280521 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RS [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOR [6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:LAUNDRY [9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:DICDEF *Comments after looking at the evidence* Being sensitive to your concerns I have to ask you guys from groups.yahoo.com/vlogging - have you read policy documents before coming to Community sanction noticeboard? First off if members of the yahoo group are working to support each other this is a breach of Wikipedia:Sock puppetry:Meatpuppets[1] and a serious one - Single purpose accounts[2] are not encouraged. Second although Pdelongchamp didn't mention it there is a possible Conflict of interest[3] problem here - authors or those associated with them should not be adding their books to wikipedia - this site is not for self promotion. I haven't seen one reason to block Pdelongchamp. The diff I see here[4] is an example of proper editing practice - removal of original research[5]. The only issue I could have with Pdelongchamp is their slight failure to assume good faith[6] but this is not a blocking offence. I do think Pdelongchamp deleted too many external links from this version [7] - I would have deleted 80% of them and kept Citizens do media for themselves, BBC Technology TV Stardom on $20 a Day, New York Times 'Vlogger (noun): Blogger With Video Camera, The Wallstreet Journal The next big thing: vlogging, Times Online, UK - but only if they were worked into the article. As far as I can see there is no malicous intent from, no wrong doing by and no need for sanction against Pdelongchamp. However I do think there should have been more of a compromise on both sides. Mmeiser was trying to improve the article, he was going about it wrong but the edits seem to be good faith Mmeiser the vloggers, you should have requested comment[8] in order to build a consensus[9] on the talk page or in the very least Mmeiser should have taken User:Adrian_M._H[10]. advice and created temporary page[11] in their userspace. User:Adrian_M._H[10]. has made a trojan effort to mediate between Pdelongchamp and Mmeiser I recommend that this block request be withdrawn and Adrian_M._H's advice taken forthwith. As an uninvolved party I would be happy to host a temp rewrite page in my userspace if this is of assitance to both sides -Cailil talk 01:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Single_purpose_account [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Video_blogdiff=nextoldid=106060604 [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOR [6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Video_blogoldid=104826246 [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RFC [9]
[videoblogging] Tribeca film fest
so I've been checkin out some experimental stuff at Tribeca Film Festival this year and I wanted to pass along 2 films that have been talked a lot about: Why didn't anybody tell me it would become this bad in Afghanistan -- Enfant terrible Dutch filmmaker Frisch stars as the protagonist of a feature film shot entirely through a cell phone. Virtually without dialogue, the long extended sequences of a war veteran's observations of the world around him, colored by his traumatic experiences in Afghanistan, bleed into beautiful shots of abstraction. -- http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/tixSYS/2007/filmguide/director-detail.php?PageNumber=2AlphaRange=FFCategory=ALLFilterVenue=ALLDay=Month=Year=Genre=ALLFestProgram=ShowShorts=ShowPast=Y then there's So which is essentially a 50min videoblog about one woman's real life self evaluating journey to Australia. http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/tixSYS/2007/filmguide/title-detail.php?PageNumber=1AlphaRange=SSCategory=ALLFilterVenue=ALLDay=Month=Year=Genre=ALLFestProgram=ShowShorts=ShowPast=Y -- --I don't know about you guys, but it's quite inspiring to know that everything we're all doing right now is totally festival worthy, no matter how bullshit or indulgent it may seem. Brian Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] 210-683-6027 taxiplasm.net
Re: [videoblogging] Sources and your stories
Kick but, great title... let's do it. I'm not even going to look at the wikipedia article... we'll see what becomes of it in the next 3 months or so. I'll be going through and reserecting some of the great stuff dleted from the videoblogging article over the last year or two. Just and FYI... the vote isn't over on the banning issue... but at this point it mine as well be... what has come out of it is there are some other actions we can take against pat, a sort of user review process... I'll be there if anyone wants to pursue it, but I'm so sick of the whole thing I'm pretty much done with the whole issue for now. -Mike On 5/4/07, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really like what we could do at http://vlogumentary.pbwiki.com/ (There's a walkie'talkie on the page where you can voice chat with anyone else on the site) Go head and add when you joined the group...and your experiences. anything. text, audio, video. we're just doing brain dumps now. anything you remember...or have documentation on. More the history of all of us videoblogging. Anyway we want it. If anyone still cares about the Wikipedia article, please list any articles/papers on Videoblogging that you remember. This will help give us the references needed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Video_blog (scroll down to Articles) Jay -- Here I am http://jaydedman.com Check out the latest project: http://pixelodeonfest.com/ Webvideo festival this June Yahoo! Groups Links
[videoblogging] Re: Request for user ban on Wikipedia videoblogging article
Now for something completely different ;) --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Delongchamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey everyone, I know there's about zero interest left in this. (i feel the same way, i would have dropped it a long time ago if it weren't for my wiki account on the chopping block) Just wanted to report that the Ban Request has been closed with results pasted below. Thankfully, if anything good came out of this it's that there's some good discussions going on in the talk page and the article has gained a lot of sources. I'd like to get a third party Admin to check out the article in a week or so and give us some tips comments. Hopefully, someone'll throw in some book citations. Good weekend and let's hope for a calmer Monday. Community sanction discussion Well, what I see there, in for example this edit[1], is the example of dictionary definitions and a link farm. I'm sure you were trying to help, but that edit really *would* need a lot of improvement. Wikipedia is not[2] the dictionary, though we do have a sister project, Wiktionary,[3] which you might wish to look at if you want to write dictionary definitions. Also, please note that, to be quite frank, I couldn't care less who any of you are, up to and including if you invented the Internet. We write from reliable sources,[4] never our own knowledge, thoughts, or experience[5], so it really doesn't matter a bit who an editor is. If Linus Torvalds[6] came along to edit the Linux[7] article, he'd *still* be expected to source. (And deal with me asking about a few bugfixes. But that's a different story.) From what I can see, Pdelongchamp has been doing a great job keeping laundry lists[8], dictionary definitions[9], material sourced to blogs, and such things out of the article. You'd probably not do badly to *listen to him*, and work at improving the article. Most of the material I can see that Pdelongchamp is removing really isn't acceptable. - Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Video_blogdiff=127290390oldid=127280521 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RS [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOR [6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:LAUNDRY [9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:DICDEF *Comments after looking at the evidence* Being sensitive to your concerns I have to ask you guys from groups.yahoo.com/vlogging - have you read policy documents before coming to Community sanction noticeboard? First off if members of the yahoo group are working to support each other this is a breach of Wikipedia:Sock puppetry:Meatpuppets[1] and a serious one - Single purpose accounts[2] are not encouraged. Second although Pdelongchamp didn't mention it there is a possible Conflict of interest[3] problem here - authors or those associated with them should not be adding their books to wikipedia - this site is not for self promotion. I haven't seen one reason to block Pdelongchamp. The diff I see here[4] is an example of proper editing practice - removal of original research[5]. The only issue I could have with Pdelongchamp is their slight failure to assume good faith[6] but this is not a blocking offence. I do think Pdelongchamp deleted too many external links from this version [7] - I would have deleted 80% of them and kept Citizens do media for themselves, BBC Technology TV Stardom on $20 a Day, New York Times 'Vlogger (noun): Blogger With Video Camera, The Wallstreet Journal The next big thing: vlogging, Times Online, UK - but only if they were worked into the article. As far as I can see there is no malicous intent from, no wrong doing by and no need for sanction against Pdelongchamp. However I do think there should have been more of a compromise on both sides. Mmeiser was trying to improve the article, he was going about it wrong but the edits seem to be good faith Mmeiser the vloggers, you should have requested comment[8] in order to build a consensus[9] on the talk page or in the very least Mmeiser should have taken User:Adrian_M._H[10]. advice and created temporary page[11] in their userspace. User:Adrian_M._H[10]. has made a trojan effort to mediate between Pdelongchamp and Mmeiser I recommend that this block request be withdrawn and Adrian_M._H's advice taken forthwith. As an uninvolved party I would be happy to host a temp rewrite page in my userspace if this is of assitance to both sides -Cailil talk 01:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Single_purpose_account [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Video_blogdiff=nextoldid=106060604 [5]
[videoblogging] Saturday May 5th, 2007 FlashMeeting
This Saturday, 5/5/07, FlashMeeting is coming up. The starting time is 10am - noon PST USA, 1pm - 3pm EST USA, 17:00-19:00 GMT. Go to this link: http://flashmeeting.open.ac.uk/fm/d798df-8392 For future and past meeting check the FlashMeeting page at: http://flashmeeting.cirne.com/index.php?title=Main_Page -- Enric -==- http://www.cirne.com
[videoblogging] Re: Sources and your stories
Short version: Think 'what actions we can take to make the article decent' rather than 'what actions can we take against pat' or you will probably continue to be frustrated by wikipedia, approaching its processes from the wrong angle methinks. Long version: Whats come out of it is lots of good advise, some of which was given to you on wikipedia before the issue was ever brought to this group. These processes will go the right way for you more if you stop jumping the gun. Even the user review process is a process too far at this stage, from what Ive learnt so far. You've been advised to try that if user keeps editing things without explaining himself. But I think thats supposed to mean from now on, its already been shown that some wikipedians are agreeing with some of pdelongchamps historical edits, he doesnt seem to have much problem explaining them in was that seem in tune with wikipedias aims. So for me the earlier stages of dispute resolution are far more desirable, the first of which could be considering the possibility that the past will not repeat itself. If it does repeat itself, the proper ways to proceed are now known. The starting point now is dialogue on the articles talk page. When you are given advice about things surrounding obtaining concensus on the article, I assume that means people discussing it on the talk page. Forming a concensus on this list, for example, is irrelevent, in the same way an external group cant come here and tell us we've all got to wear chocolate underpants when posting to this group, because theres a concensus on this point elsewhere. If that doesnt work, then can go on to steps involving 3rd parties trying to moderate the dispute, and if they fail and people go mad and abuse the wiki at any point, some of these stronger procedures can be considered. If the history of edits was as bad as portrayed here, and it had been discussed a lot on the talk page, and 3rd party advice was sought and listened to, then the way these harsher processes panned out would of been different. I found it very useful to look at other users who were up for ban discussion, the histories of other disputes, and indeed the user review thing you are now referring to. I look at the cases in question and the level of alleged abuse, and compare it to what we are dealing with here, to see if this case seems to fit. One piece of advice I see you were given before things exploded onto this list, was to keep a copy of the article the way you would like it on one of your user pages, with a view to 3rd parties then helping it to be improved to the extent where it couldnt fall foul of justifiable edits, then some time later merging it with the real article. Its a shame that didnt happen. Its one of the reasons Im still posting here about such things, it makes me worry that the dispute is powered by some peoples alternative beliefs about what wikipedias policies should be, or a refusal to take on board legitimate reasons why your content may be deleted. If thats even partially true, dispute resolutions are unlikely to satisfy, spend energy on other wiki's with differing approaches as a constructive alternative to fighting an impossible battle? Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just and FYI... the vote isn't over on the banning issue... but at this point it mine as well be... what has come out of it is there are some other actions we can take against pat, a sort of user review process... I'll be there if anyone wants to pursue it, but I'm so sick of the whole thing I'm pretty much done with the whole issue for now. -Mike
