Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
Agreed. Doesn't it feel heightened, more so every day? Could it be because netizens can collaborate more readily than any group in history of humanity larger than a handful we're _feeling_ our fairness instinct in a new manner? I'm very curious about this. Is it our sense of fairness the foundation for what comes out of our connectedness? It's interesting. Heh. Fairness. Of course it could just be the beers talking :) On Apr 25, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: We are evolved for it. There are lots of studies on humans and other primates about this. A sense of fairness, and the ability to detect (and desire to punish) cheaters, are part of what enables us to live as social animals. SPONSORED LINKS Fireant Individual Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
There are also some interesting theories about our ever-widening circles of what/who we perceive to be us and therefore deserving of fair treatment. Used to be that humans saw us-ness only in blood kin/tribe - you still see vestiges (large ones, unfortunately) of cultures that treat all the thems as less than human and therefore not deserving of humane treatment. This kind of argument was used until very recently even in enlightened societies to justify unfair treatment of people of different skin colors or non-male people: Science proves (as the science of the day often did) that those creatures are inferior and would only be harmed by being allowed the same rights as US. With globalization and global communications, our sense of us can be much larger than it's ever been, if we allow that to happen. Some would argue that a further stage of evolution is recognizing the us-ness of other animals, such as the pets we would never consider eating (for most of us today) and, for strict vegetarians, the any-animals-at-all that they would never consider eating (sorry, I personally am not quite that enlightened yet, although, unlike many Europeans, I don't eat horse). On 4/25/06, robert a/k/a r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. Doesn't it feel heightened, more so every day? Could it be because netizens can collaborate more readily than any group in history of humanity larger than a handful we're _feeling_ our fairness instinct in a new manner? I'm very curious about this. Is it our sense of fairness the foundation for what comes out of our connectedness? It's interesting. Heh. Fairness. Of course it could just be the beers talking :) On Apr 25, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: We are evolved for it. There are lots of studies on humans and other primates about this. A sense of fairness, and the ability to detect (and desire to punish) cheaters, are part of what enables us to live as social animals. Yahoo! Groups Links -- best regards, Deirdré Straughan www.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work) SPONSORED LINKS Fireant Individual Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
it'll all end (or begin?) in 2012 anyways ;-)On 4/25/06, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:There are also some interesting theories about our ever-wideningcircles of what/who we perceive to be us and therefore deserving of fair treatment. Used to be that humans saw us-ness only in bloodkin/tribe - you still see vestiges (large ones, unfortunately) ofcultures that treat all the thems as less than human and therefore not deserving of humane treatment. This kind of argument was useduntil very recently even in enlightened societies to justify unfairtreatment of people of different skin colors or non-male people: Science proves (as the science of the day often did) that thosecreatures are inferior and would only be harmed by being allowed thesame rights as US.With globalization and global communications, our sense of us can be much larger than it's ever been, if we allow that to happen.Some would argue that a further stage of evolution is recognizing theus-ness of other animals, such as the pets we would never considereating (for most of us today) and, for strict vegetarians, the any-animals-at-all that they would never consider eating (sorry, Ipersonally am not quite that enlightened yet, although, unlike manyEuropeans, I don't eat horse).On 4/25/06, robert a/k/a r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. Doesn't it feel heightened, more so every day? Could it be because netizens can collaborate more readily than any group in history of humanity larger than a handful we're _feeling_ our fairness instinct in a new manner? I'm very curious about this. Is it our sense of fairness the foundation for what comes out of our connectedness? It's interesting. Heh. Fairness. Of course it could just be the beers talking :) On Apr 25, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: We are evolved for it. There are lots of studies on humans and other primates about this. A sense of fairness, and the ability to detect (and desire to punish) cheaters, are part of what enables us to live as social animals. Yahoo! Groups Links --best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org SPONSORED LINKS Fireant Individual Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
sounds like mayan calendar time to me ;) i was going to add a link to the Mayan Calendar Videocast but they seem to have gone bye bye bummer Michael Sullivan wrote: it'll all end (or begin?) in 2012 anyways ;-) On 4/25/06, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are also some interesting theories about our ever-widening circles of what/who we perceive to be "us" and therefore deserving of fair treatment. Used to be that humans saw "us-ness" only in blood kin/tribe - you still see vestiges (large ones, unfortunately) of cultures that treat all the "thems" as less than human and therefore not deserving of humane treatment. This kind of argument was used until very recently even in "enlightened" societies to justify unfair treatment of people of different skin colors or non-male people: "Science proves" (as the science of the day often did) "that those creatures are inferior and would only be harmed by being allowed the same rights as US." With globalization and global communications, our sense of "us" can be much larger than it's ever been, if we allow that to happen. Some would argue that a further stage of evolution is recognizing the us-ness of other animals, such as the pets we would never consider eating (for most of us today) and, for strict vegetarians, the any-animals-at-all that they would never consider eating (sorry, I personally am not quite that enlightened yet, although, unlike many Europeans, I don't eat horse). On 4/25/06, robert a/k/a r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. Doesn't it feel heightened, more so every day? Could it be because netizens can collaborate more readily than any group in history of humanity larger than a handful we're _feeling_ our fairness instinct in a new manner? I'm very curious about this. Is it our sense of fairness the foundation for what comes out of our connectedness? It's interesting. Heh. Fairness. Of course it could just be the beers talking :) On Apr 25, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: We are evolved for it. There are lots of studies on humans and other primates about this. A sense of fairness, and the ability to detect (and desire to punish) cheaters, are part of what enables us to live as social animals. Yahoo! Groups Links -- best regards, Deirdr Straughan www.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Sull http://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org SPONSORED LINKS Fireant Individual Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- Markus Sandy http://apperceptions.org http://spinflow.org YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
Kevin tried to post emails to this list last night, but was having technical troubles. This is what he wrote... (the final paper he refers to is posted at (or will be once it uploads): http://teaching.jensimmons.com/videoblogging/spring06/research.htm along with video of his presentation.) x-tad-smaller hey, i got in late tonight and checked my email to find this fiasco unfolded. I am extremely tired and can't respond to the bits of this discussion i've read. i would like to say that this post was not meant as a hoax--as to what it is now, i'm not so sure. It was meant as a response to an argument i had with a fellow film student who attends Columbia University. I argued, as i did in my final paper, that the new logging medium--it's new for me--is an opportunity to potentially establish a new genre, the limits of film have been tested for over a century but vlogging is new. i was impressed with the believability of the vlogging medium, which was starkly different from what i've seen of reality tv for the last few years. I argued that if the conventions of vlogging could be manipulated then new artistic piece could be produced. I posted this to illustrate that point. I never thought it would generate such a debate because my audience has been about 20 people--all close friends since it's conception in feb. Regardless, i believe that i will feel guilty for causing any strife--this was not meant for you. I want to repond to any comments regarding this experiment, but i'm tired and need to sleep. I would like to say right now that, as to the excess of violence in my films and the films other my fellow students, there has been violence in cinema since Edwin S. Porter's The Great Train Robbery in 1903 and there will be violence in media as long as there is media. I also would like to point out that David Lynch, when asked about why he made EraserHead, said that it had a great deal to do with the violence of Philadelphia. My point is that Phila. is a violent place, that's the atmosphere that i live in, so some of that violence comes through. I also read a comment from...i can't remeber...anyway, he said that this piece was wrong because he felt a certain way and he didn't sign up for that. For this response i have no sympathy. I didn't sign up for the ideas i was exposed to when i started reading DeSade's Philosophy in the Bedroom yet my twelve year old eyes scanned the lines with horror and intrigue. I feel it's the same situation here. At any moment i could have put the book down, but morbid curiousity forced me onward. The people who were offended to reproach could have stopped watching this video, about someone they didn't know, at any time. I think this tendancy in humans to watch the atrocious (is that spelled right?) is what fueled this, to an extent. It's probably the same reason so many people watch those god awful reality shows. Anyway this was an experiment and perhaps it didn't work in the way i intended it to work, like i said, i'm tired. i would like to digest fully the comments made and respond when i'm less fatigued (I hate that word). Please email me with any comments. [EMAIL PROTECTED] late -- Kevin Krutz /x-tad-smaller jenSimmons http://www.jensimmons.com
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
Kevin left a comment on loadedpun.com The part I enjoyed most: I am happy that that a dialouge about this issue was generated and i hope nobody was seriously disturbed by this. If you were you shouldn't take art and life too seriously, life is weird and tuff enough without getting worked up about what a skinny cat from Philly posted on the web. On 4/25/06, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin tried to post emails to this list last night, but was having technical troubles. This is what he wrote... (the final paper he refers to is posted at (or will be once it uploads): http://teaching.jensimmons.com/videoblogging/spring06/research.htm along with video of his presentation.) hey, i got in late tonight and checked my email to find this fiasco unfolded. I am extremely tired and can't respond to the bits of this discussion i've read. i would like to say that this post was not meant as a hoax--as to what it is now, i'm not so sure. It was meant as a response to an argument i had with a fellow film student who attends Columbia University. I argued, as i did in my final paper, that the new logging medium--it's new for me--is an opportunity to potentially establish a new genre, the limits of film have been tested for over a century but vlogging is new. i was impressed with the believability of the vlogging medium, which was starkly different from what i've seen of reality tv for the last few years. I argued that if the conventions of vlogging could be manipulated then new artistic piece could be produced. I posted this to illustrate that point. I never thought it would generate such a debate because my audience has been about 20 people--all close friends since it's conception in feb. Regardless, i believe that i will feel guilty for causing any strife--this was not meant for you. I want to repond to any comments regarding this experiment, but i'm tired and need to sleep. I would like to say right now that, as to the excess of violence in my films and the films other my fellow students, there has been violence in cinema since Edwin S. Porter's The Great Train Robbery in 1903 and there will be violence in media as long as there is media. I also would like to point out that David Lynch, when asked about why he made EraserHead, said that it had a great deal to do with the violence of Philadelphia. My point is that Phila. is a violent place, that's the atmosphere that i live in, so some of that violence comes through. I also read a comment from...i can't remeber...anyway, he said that this piece was wrong because he felt a certain way and he didn't sign up for that. For this response i have no sympathy. I didn't sign up for the ideas i was exposed to when i started reading DeSade's Philosophy in the Bedroom yet my twelve year old eyes scanned the lines with horror and intrigue. I feel it's the same situation here. At any moment i could have put the book down, but morbid curiousity forced me onward. The people who were offended to reproach could have stopped watching this video, about someone they didn't know, at any time. I think this tendancy in humans to watch the atrocious (is that spelled right?) is what fueled this, to an extent. It's probably the same reason so many people watch those god awful reality shows. Anyway this was an experiment and perhaps it didn't work in the way i intended it to work, like i said, i'm tired. i would like to digest fully the comments made and respond when i'm less fatigued (I hate that word). Please email me with any comments. [EMAIL PROTECTED] late -- Kevin Krutz jenSimmons http://www.jensimmons.com -- ~Devlon http://loadedpun.com | http://mefeedia.com http://8bitme.blogspot.com | http://devlonduthie.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
I'd like to nominate fair as the central theme of our times, these times, whether you choose to call them 2.0 or whatever. Seems we are more sensitive to fairness, I can't put my finger on exactly why though. Is it because the ability to maintain community has become easier due to the networky glue we're all high on, or is it something else? Music pricing, political shenanigans, nondisclosure of business relationships, fair use, first amendment rights suppression, breaching NC licenses, experimenting on unwitting audiences, I'm sure there's more but you get the gist. Why is fairness such a central theme (assuming it is and I'm not just imagining it due to overwork) and why the big reaction on this list and elsewhere to perceived breaches of fairness? -- cheers r Deconstructing the status quo, collaboratively my vlog: http://r.24x7.com reliable hosting: http://foo.24x7.com On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:05 PM, David Meade wrote: ... that doesn't seem fair ... I didn't sign up to be in any experiment today (and the content was not pleasant). SPONSORED LINKS Fireant Individual Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
prob has to do with the cosmic alignment ;-)On 4/24/06, robert a/k/a r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I'd like to nominate fair as the central theme of our times, these times, whether you choose to call them 2.0 or whatever.Seems we are more sensitive to fairness, I can't put my finger onexactly why though.Is it because the ability to maintain community has become easier due to the networky glue we're all high on, or is it something else?Music pricing, political shenanigans, nondisclosure of businessrelationships, fair use, first amendment rights suppression, breachingNC licenses, experimenting on unwitting audiences, I'm sure there's more but you get the gist.Why is fairness such a central theme (assuming it is and I'm not justimagining it due to overwork) and why the big reaction on this list andelsewhere to perceived breaches of fairness? --cheersrDeconstructing the status quo, collaborativelymy vlog: http://r.24x7.comreliable hosting: http://foo.24x7.com On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:05 PM, David Meade wrote:... that doesn't seem fair ... I didn't sign up to be in any experiment today (and the content was not pleasant).Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Fair Or Not (was The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz)
We are evolved for it. There are lots of studies on humans and other primates about this. A sense of fairness, and the ability to detect (and desire to punish) cheaters, are part of what enables us to live as social animals. -- best regards, Deirdré Straughan www.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
