Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Frank Carver]

Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 4:26:51 PM, Pete Prodoehl wrote:

> andrew michael baron wrote:
>> Can you give a specific example where it is better to spend your life 
>> makeing money doing things that you don't like to do? And spending 
>> your life not making money doing the things you like to do?

> It's better to spend your life making money doing things that you don't
> like to do when you have to do so to support a family and provide what
> children need to live happy and healthy lives.

> Ok, maybe not spend your whole life. Maybe just 20 years or so. :]

And maybe when your skills in other areas enable you to make better
money, in a shorter time, with less stress - leaving you relaxed,
happy, and funded to do what you really like with the rest of your
life.

Two days a week of computer consultancy would easily pay for me to
look after my family _and_ spend the rest of the week making video.
I'm sure I'd be hard pushed to make that kind of money in video even
if I spent the whole seven days tinkering with cameras and editing
software. I have a dozen valuable years of experience in software
design and development, but nothing like that in video.

-- 
Frank Carver   http://www.makevideo.org.uk



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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Randolfe Wicker]






At age sixty-seven, I have already made some 
choices.  I gave up working in the arts about thirty years ago because I 
was so tired of being poor.  I went into retailing and at least was my own 
boss and captain of my own ship.
 
I didn't make nearly as much money as I 
hoped.  However, I had a comfortable life and was able to give employment 
to many special people over the years.
 
Now, I'm retired and am returning to the 
arts.  Fortunately, I saved all those years and can now indulge myself by 
getting $10,000 or $15,000 worth of top-of-the-line computer video and editing 
equipment so I can work at vlogging and documentary making.  There is 
something to be said for "delayed satisfaction".
 
However, what is right for one person is wrong for 
another.  My best friend pursued a career in writing and earned a meager 
living at it.  He was younger than I and died a few months ago.  His 
decision to pursue his art for the last thirty years was obviously the right one 
for him.  If he had chosen my path, he might have just slaved away all 
those years to gather money and might never have gotten around to creating the 
art and recording his life through published books like he did.
 
So, regardless of the decisions we make, life is a 
gamble and there is no "right" or "wrong" way. I feel sorry for all those I meet 
who are so desperately eager to create but who can't afford the equipment or the 
time.
 
If I die within the next couple years, I will have 
made the wrong decision.  If I live out my (by the charts) life expectancy 
to the age of 83 and am able to raise Hell till my dying day, I will have made 
the correct choice.
 
Life and life choices are gambles.  So long as 
we live, the dice keep rolling.
 
May you live long and well.  May you choose 
the path right for you and prosper!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Pete Prodoehl 
  
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:26 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
  Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
  andrew michael baron wrote:> On Aug 13, 2005, at 
  10:16 AM, Frank Carver wrote:> >>>Its always better to 
  make money doing things you like.>>>>I'm not so sure. Over 
  the years, I've made money doing a whole range>>of things, some I 
  really liked, and some I didn't. Sometimes I worked>>for myself, 
  sometimes for others. Doing something that you chose as a>>hobby, 
  but turning it into a career has some subtle drawbacks as well>>as 
  the obvious advantages.> > Can you give a specific example where 
  it is better to spend your life  > makeing money doing things that 
  you don't like to do? And spending  > your life not making money 
  doing the things you like to do?It's better to spend your life making 
  money doing things that you don't like to do when you have to do so to 
  support a family and provide what children need to live happy and healthy 
  lives.Ok, maybe not spend your whole life. Maybe just 20 years or so. 
  :]Pete-- http://tinkernet.org/videoblog for the 
  future...




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Pete Prodoehl]

andrew michael baron wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2005, at 10:16 AM, Frank Carver wrote:
> 
>>>Its always better to make money doing things you like.
>>
>>I'm not so sure. Over the years, I've made money doing a whole range
>>of things, some I really liked, and some I didn't. Sometimes I worked
>>for myself, sometimes for others. Doing something that you chose as a
>>hobby, but turning it into a career has some subtle drawbacks as well
>>as the obvious advantages.
> 
> Can you give a specific example where it is better to spend your life  
> makeing money doing things that you don't like to do? And spending  
> your life not making money doing the things you like to do?

It's better to spend your life making money doing things that you don't 
like to do when you have to do so to support a family and provide what 
children need to live happy and healthy lives.

Ok, maybe not spend your whole life. Maybe just 20 years or so. :]

Pete

-- 
http://tinkernet.org/
videoblog for the future...








  
  
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RE: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Rick Short]

Chris (and anyone else interested in
this).

David is spot on. One of my duties in my
job is to purchase media, worldwide.  I WISH salespeople were as prepared
as David would make them (would they listen to them).  Simply put, I can’t
add anything to his great advice.

 

Rick Short

http://rickshort.blogspot.com


 

-Original Message-
From:
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Yirchott
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:45
PM
To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [videoblogging]
Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

 

Chris,
Good questions and ones I'll attempt to answer,
however, I have not dealt 
with this per say. In my experience, either
someone has contacted the sales 
or promotion department at the television station
where I worked or the 
reverse, our sales or promotion department reaches
out to them. In either 
case, I have been brought in after initial contact
has been made.

That being said, I think who you should contact
will vary by whom you seek 
out as a sponsor. If it is a local business, you
might need to speak with 
the owner. If you want to approach Coca-Cola, you
might need to go through 
their media buyer. It also seems like many
businesses are set up 
differently: Is it the Advertising, PR, Sales, or
Marketing department you 
want to speak with? It could be different at each
one. I would suggest doing 
a little research -- checking out their website
and whatnot -- to find out 
what you can about their structure. And it
couldn't hurt to call up and ask 
to speak with whomever handles buying advertising.

Many business are used to being hit up to
advertise on TV, on radio, and in 
print. So it shouldn't be like you're the first.
I'd suggest calling rather 
than emailing. Email is spam and is easy to
ignore. It is easier to 
trash/ignore an email than it is to say
"no" to a person.

Ask yourself why the business would want to
advertise with you. What are the 
benefits to them? Write them down and put it in
front of you before you 
call. Last thing you want to do is be on the phone
with a decision maker and 
sound like you don't know what you are doing. I'd
go so far as to practice 
your selling speech. Record your voice and see
what it sounds like. Try to 
eliminate verbal ticks like "um... "
"ah..." "y'know" or "like." Become 
comfortable with silence -- often people are
compelled to fill those small 
voids with word, any words; it can become
problematic. Be very aware that 
when people are nervous, they tend to talk fast
and breathe fast -- don't do 
this, it doesn't sound credible. Also, don't
concentrate so much on not 
being nervous that you aren't paying attention to
the conversation. Have a 
pen and paper with you to take notes. And you
might want to put on a suit 
and tie -- research shows even though the person
on the other end can't see 
you, it affects your behavior and attitude. Also,
know what you want to sell 
and for how much -- or at least have a fairly
strong idea. If they are local 
try to set up a meeting to show them what you can
offer them.

If you do get a meeting, be prepared: ask to meet
in a room with a computer 
connected to the Internet so you can show them
your website. Bring your 
laptop if you have one. If you have time, do a
mock-up of your homepage with 
their ads on it. Bring a CD with screengrabs of
your website in case there 
is some crazy Internet/DNS issue. Bring several
copies of a one-sheet that 
lists the benefits of advertising on your website.
Bring documents to back 
up your claims (traffic numbers, etc.). Know how
and when they will be 
billed and how and when they will receive whatever
you promise them 
(pageview numbers, for instance). Dress
professionally. If they say "no," 
say, "I can understand you aren't ready to do
this right now, Is it okay if 
I contact you in a month or two to update you on
any improvements I've made 
on my site and see if you guys might be ready
then?" Or something like that 
-- in other words, give yourself an opening to try
to resell yourself later. 
Thank them for their time.

As far as a directory goes, I did a quick Google
search for list of media 
buyers, and one of the results I got was: ( URL: 
http://www.salesvantage.com/d/Media_Buyers/
). I can't speak to how legit or 
useful the site is I just saw it for the first
time, but there is stuff out 
there.

Maybe there is someone in the group who's had more
experience in this area, 
who can contribute some additional useful
information? Hint, hint to all you 
lurkers :)


Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

-David



>From: Chris Baudry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions
Regarding Sponsorshi

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[David Yirchott]

Chris,
Good questions and ones I'll attempt to answer, however, I have not dealt 
with this per say. In my experience, either someone has contacted the sales 
or promotion department at the television station where I worked or the 
reverse, our sales or promotion department reaches out to them. In either 
case, I have been brought in after initial contact has been made.

That being said, I think who you should contact will vary by whom you seek 
out as a sponsor. If it is a local business, you might need to speak with 
the owner. If you want to approach Coca-Cola, you might need to go through 
their media buyer. It also seems like many businesses are set up 
differently: Is it the Advertising, PR, Sales, or Marketing department you 
want to speak with? It could be different at each one. I would suggest doing 
a little research -- checking out their website and whatnot -- to find out 
what you can about their structure. And it couldn't hurt to call up and ask 
to speak with whomever handles buying advertising.

Many business are used to being hit up to advertise on TV, on radio, and in 
print. So it shouldn't be like you're the first. I'd suggest calling rather 
than emailing. Email is spam and is easy to ignore. It is easier to 
trash/ignore an email than it is to say "no" to a person.

Ask yourself why the business would want to advertise with you. What are the 
benefits to them? Write them down and put it in front of you before you 
call. Last thing you want to do is be on the phone with a decision maker and 
sound like you don't know what you are doing. I'd go so far as to practice 
your selling speech. Record your voice and see what it sounds like. Try to 
eliminate verbal ticks like "um... " "ah..." "y'know" or "like." Become 
comfortable with silence -- often people are compelled to fill those small 
voids with word, any words; it can become problematic. Be very aware that 
when people are nervous, they tend to talk fast and breathe fast -- don't do 
this, it doesn't sound credible. Also, don't concentrate so much on not 
being nervous that you aren't paying attention to the conversation. Have a 
pen and paper with you to take notes. And you might want to put on a suit 
and tie -- research shows even though the person on the other end can't see 
you, it affects your behavior and attitude. Also, know what you want to sell 
and for how much -- or at least have a fairly strong idea. If they are local 
try to set up a meeting to show them what you can offer them.

If you do get a meeting, be prepared: ask to meet in a room with a computer 
connected to the Internet so you can show them your website. Bring your 
laptop if you have one. If you have time, do a mock-up of your homepage with 
their ads on it. Bring a CD with screengrabs of your website in case there 
is some crazy Internet/DNS issue. Bring several copies of a one-sheet that 
lists the benefits of advertising on your website. Bring documents to back 
up your claims (traffic numbers, etc.). Know how and when they will be 
billed and how and when they will receive whatever you promise them 
(pageview numbers, for instance). Dress professionally. If they say "no," 
say, "I can understand you aren't ready to do this right now, Is it okay if 
I contact you in a month or two to update you on any improvements I've made 
on my site and see if you guys might be ready then?" Or something like that 
-- in other words, give yourself an opening to try to resell yourself later. 
Thank them for their time.

As far as a directory goes, I did a quick Google search for list of media 
buyers, and one of the results I got was: ( URL: 
http://www.salesvantage.com/d/Media_Buyers/ ). I can't speak to how legit or 
useful the site is I just saw it for the first time, but there is stuff out 
there.

Maybe there is someone in the group who's had more experience in this area, 
who can contribute some additional useful information? Hint, hint to all you 
lurkers :)


Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

-David



>From: Chris Baudry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, 
>Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
>Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:36:16 -0700
>
>David,
>  As a follow up to what you say about sponsors, a very practical question:
>after identifying a list of potential sponsors that might be interested, 
>how
>do you contact them? Do you contact their marketing dept. and what type of
>person are you trying to reach? Or communication agencies? Phone? Email? Is
>there a directory of these marketing and communication people?
>  Thanks,
>  Christian








  
  
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Indi

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Joshua Kinberg]

Yes, there are innumerable discussions about building the blogosphere
and extending the web. These can often get very techy.

As an example, resources like these are built by communities with
similar interests to ours in regards to the blogosphere (in fact some
of the members here contribute to these efforts):

http://video.yahoo.com/mrss
http://microformats.org
http://atomenabled.org
http://structuredblogging.com


-Josh


On 8/14/05, Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, Mr. Kinberg, you're quite right: we stand on the shoulders / successes
> / failures of not only the bloggers but the podcasters as well, which is why
> I scan the podcast list.
> 
> Does the blogosphere have this kind of metadiscussion buzzing in the
> background or does it all happen in the blogs?
> 
> Jan
> --
> "It isn't done alone. Pay more."
> http://fauxpress.blogspot.com - motion
> http://blog.urbanartadventures.com - sound
> http://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com - community
> http://the-hold.blogspot.com - literature
> .
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joshua Kinberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting,
> Ads, and Rates, etc.
> 
> 
> > Blogging infrastructure built over time. We're standing on the
> > shoulders of giants. Let's not forget that. We're not any more or less
> > special because we have video in a blog. But, I do think there are
> > opportunities here to build tools and services that specifically
> > relate to media publishing/syndication that could eventually set this
> > apart somewhat from other forms of Blogging while still connecting to
> > the blogosphere as a whole. This is what we talk about often when we
> > refer to this as an ecology.
> >
> >
> > -Josh
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/14/05, Jay dedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > What the blogosphere did not have at its outset was the infrastructure
> >> > this
> >> > community has created / creates.
> >> > That and a strong sense of community set us apart.
> >> > To what end? I can only imagine that it will be positive.
> >>
> >> agreed.
> >> we may disagree and come at videoblogging from different directions.,
> >> but at least we're talking with each other.
> >>
> >> jay
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://www.momentshowing.net>
> >> Adventures in Videoblogging
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Chris Baudry]

Thanks a lot. Chris





  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Jan]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
 
1315 members.
 
Jan
 
-- "It isn't done alone. Pay more." http://fauxpress.blogspot.com - 
motionhttp://blog.urbanartadventures.com 
- soundhttp://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com - 
communityhttp://the-hold.blogspot.com - 
literature.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Chris 
  Baudry 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:23 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
  Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
  
  Hi Jan: what is the address of the podcast list? Is it a Yahoo 
  group?
   
  Christian




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Chris Baudry]

David,
 
As a follow up to what you say about sponsors, a very practical question: after identifying a list of potential sponsors that might be interested, how do you contact them? Do you contact their marketing dept. and what type of person are you trying to reach? Or communication agencies? Phone? Email?  Is there a directory of these marketing and communication people?

 
Thanks,
 
Christian 
On 8/13/05, David Yirchott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
RadioMike,Congratulations on your new project. I wish you and your colleague all the best!
Below I will share my thoughts and knowledge, but this is still somewhat uncharted territory. I am not an expert and your mileage may vary:First, I agree with your assessment of securing an underwriter/sponsor. If 
you can get one, it often means more money than a typical advertising rate card will pay out and the opportunity to build a solid business relationship with a company that has similar interests and target audiences as your own.
>My questions regarding this are mostly how does one present statistics>and audience numbers to a potential underwriter when the potential>podcast has not been produced and downloaded by anyone yet (I can
>probably dig up statistics and audience numbers from my one-time podcast>that I had to put on hiatus due to the emergency of finding paid>employment in Austin.First and foremost, you should ask yourself, "What does the potential 
sponsor want?" That simple question will keep the rest of your work focused. Is it a local sponsor? National? What sort of demographics are they looking for? At this point, without a show-specific track record, you aren't selling 
a product, you're selling a concept. Which means a certain amount of forecasting is acceptable, but back it up with whatever data you can get. For instance, if there is a similar podcast, try to find out what numbers 
they get. Get general information about podcasters. I recently posted a link to a survey that showed people who read blogs tend to be younger and wealthier than typical web surfers. Find out what you can about podcast 
listeners.The numbers you have from your previous show are great, especially if this new show is similar. First of all, it is good that the numbers from your last show (July 6, 2005) are recent. But the next question is what kind of 
numbers do you have? Do they support the goals of the potential sponsor? If you can track the location of downloaders, are your numbers from local sources? Keep in mind that not all local users will appear to derive from a 
local source. AOL users, I believe, generally show up coming from Virginia. But if you have numbers from Malaysia and you have a local sponsor that may not be seen as a benefit.Find out if you can, your previous show's numbers of pageviews and unique 
users. Keep in mind that if you are delivering your podcast in a feed, people with podcatchers don't have to visit your site, which can, of course, decrease pageviews and unique user numbers. And will make any of the 
sponsor's banner ads and links on your site underperform.What I'd suggest: certainly mention the sponsor in the podcast, but try to drive traffic to the sponsor's site, your site, or both. Have something on 
your website a listener will not get from just the podcast: pictures, a blog, articles, links for more information, or a way to give feedback. Create a contest: have your sponsor donate his/her product and give it away 
on your website. Set up a contest entry form on your website and tell people about it on your show. That makes it easy and more acceptable to mention the sponsor, and it should drive traffic to your homepage.
Tell the sponsor What it is about your new podcast that is likely to increase your numbers over the previous one. Do your numbers show a loyal audience that will function as a foundation for your new show? Did your 
numbers indicate a steady audience growth? Will you have more advertising this time around? Will you be listed on iTunes (again, likely not a benefit for a local sponsor)?Also, you may not want to mention stopping your show to find emergency 
employment. I do not Know the details surrounding the situation, but a business wants to know that they are making an investment in a stable project. last thing you want is a potential sponsor wondering if -- after 
they invest in you -- you're going to go on another hiatus.>And also, how does one determine>an underwriting rate or fee for a new podcast or videoblog?This is virtually uncharted territory bacause it is a new distribution 
model. What impact do you suspect this sponsorship will have for you and for the sponsor. Sometimes it is worth losing money to be affiliated with a certain business. If that is not the case here, come up with a number that 
will give your sponsor the perception of value and you a reason to keep them around. Do Internet searches. Oftenthere is a lot of guidance than can be derived from Google searches.
>The same questions also apply for 

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Chris Baudry]

Hi Jan: what is the address of the podcast list? Is it a Yahoo group?
 
Christian





  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Jan]

Yes, Mr. Kinberg, you're quite right: we stand on the shoulders / successes 
/ failures of not only the bloggers but the podcasters as well, which is why 
I scan the podcast list.

Does the blogosphere have this kind of metadiscussion buzzing in the 
background or does it all happen in the blogs?

Jan
-- 
"It isn't done alone. Pay more."
http://fauxpress.blogspot.com - motion
http://blog.urbanartadventures.com - sound
http://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com - community
http://the-hold.blogspot.com - literature
.
- Original Message - 
From: "Joshua Kinberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, 
Ads, and Rates, etc.


> Blogging infrastructure built over time. We're standing on the
> shoulders of giants. Let's not forget that. We're not any more or less
> special because we have video in a blog. But, I do think there are
> opportunities here to build tools and services that specifically
> relate to media publishing/syndication that could eventually set this
> apart somewhat from other forms of Blogging while still connecting to
> the blogosphere as a whole. This is what we talk about often when we
> refer to this as an ecology.
>
>
> -Josh
>
>
>
> On 8/14/05, Jay dedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > What the blogosphere did not have at its outset was the infrastructure 
>> > this
>> > community has created / creates.
>> > That and a strong sense of community set us apart.
>> > To what end? I can only imagine that it will be positive.
>>
>> agreed.
>> we may disagree and come at videoblogging from different directions.,
>> but at least we're talking with each other.
>>
>> jay
>>
>> --
>> http://www.momentshowing.net>
>> Adventures in Videoblogging
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 







  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Beth Agnew]

I think it's fair to an extent to turn up the heat a little on people's 
ideas and put their feet to the fire about what it is they are really 
doing. If they are passionate about their ideas, that heat is not going 
to deter them. Our devil's advocates shoot flames at these ideas to see 
how fast they'll incinerate. That's valuable for the idea creator 
because if the idea or the plan is solid, a little singeing is not going 
to hurt it. It will, I hope, burn away the dross so that the true gold 
of the idea is revealed. If criticism inspires someone to change their 
plan for the better, or make the idea more flame-proof, then that's to 
everyone's benefit. If they can't stand the heat and leave the kitchen, 
then that's a benefit too.

On this list, I have seen many messages exhorting people to do things 
for the right reasons, but NO messages that imply "you're not part of 
our in-crowd so get lost". To the contrary, it appears to be a welcoming 
group full of people willing to help others get up to speed in a medium 
we care about. Maybe the various communication styles are not always to 
everyone's liking, but that's a feature of our delightful diversity.

The challenges to our ideas or techniques that we receive in this group 
are nothing compared to what the wider world will have to say once we 
get out there. People who have no clue regarding the what, and how, and 
why of vlogging will feel completely qualified to broadcast biased and 
uninformed criticism on something they can never hope to understand.

I figure if I can get through the gauntlet of you lot, nobody else's 
voice is going to matter, and I'll have a product that is the stronger 
for it.

Clint Sharp wrote:

> Michael Verdi wrote:
>
> > I wasn't trying to cruelly shame somebody out of their dream. 

... Seriously, every time someone mentions the topic of sponsorship, 
advertising, making money in any way, etc, no matter how misguided, 
you've gone into a tirade. ...

-- 
Beth Agnew, Professor of Mirth
laughpractice.blogspot.com
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Joshua Kinberg]

Blogging infrastructure built over time. We're standing on the
shoulders of giants. Let's not forget that. We're not any more or less
special because we have video in a blog. But, I do think there are
opportunities here to build tools and services that specifically
relate to media publishing/syndication that could eventually set this
apart somewhat from other forms of Blogging while still connecting to
the blogosphere as a whole. This is what we talk about often when we
refer to this as an ecology.


-Josh



On 8/14/05, Jay dedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What the blogosphere did not have at its outset was the infrastructure this
> > community has created / creates.
> > That and a strong sense of community set us apart.
> > To what end? I can only imagine that it will be positive.
> 
> agreed.
> we may disagree and come at videoblogging from different directions.,
> but at least we're talking with each other.
> 
> jay
> 
> --
> http://www.momentshowing.net>
> Adventures in Videoblogging
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>



  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Jay dedman]

> What the blogosphere did not have at its outset was the infrastructure this
> community has created / creates. 
> That and a strong sense of community set us apart.  
> To what end? I can only imagine that it will be positive. 

agreed.
we may disagree and come at videoblogging from different directions.,
but at least we're talking with each other.

jay

-- 
http://www.momentshowing.net>
Adventures in Videoblogging






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Jan]

What the blogosphere did not have at its outset was the 
infrastructure this community has created / creates.
 
That and a strong sense of community set us 
apart.
 
To what end? I can only imagine that it will be 
positive.
 
Jan
 
-- "It isn't done alone. Pay more." http://fauxpress.blogspot.com - 
motionhttp://blog.urbanartadventures.com 
- soundhttp://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com - 
communityhttp://the-hold.blogspot.com - 
literature.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Randolfe 
  Wicker 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:14 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
  Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
  
  Andrew, before I found this group I spent about a 
  week exploring vlogs on the Internet.  Rocketboom was one of vlogs which 
  stood out as being sophisticated and professional.
   
  I'm sure you will have a rapidly growing audience 
  as you continue.  In fact, I suspect you might find yourself "tempted" 
  with offers from commercial broadcasters very soon.
   
  I noticed you mentioned wanting to have third 
  world sources for your vlog.  A documentary maker who did a great piece 
  of work entitled "Book Wars" is now located in Cambodia and attempting to film 
  and report on indigenous people in that country.  I forwarded your post 
  to him.  Don't know if he will be interested or not. Just thought the two 
  of you should be aware of each other's existence. JRE-mail 
  Address(es):  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  I think your description of how music became 
  democratized and enabled musicians to earn a range of income instead of being 
  made millionaires or left to starve by "gatekeepers" is right on target. 
  Vlogging is a new art form and method of communication.  Blogs have 
  exploded to over 14.2 million with 40,000 new ones every day because people 
  now can publish their writings on the Internet.  I am sure vlogs will 
  increase very rapidly also.  It's just a question as to "how" money and 
  commercialization is going to impact vlogging and change it.
   
  First you had the three big networks.  Then 
  you had cable channels.  Now you have vlogs.  Each one expanded the 
  opportunities to have yourself seen and heard.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
andrew 
michael baron 
To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:36 
    PM
Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
A personal reflection on my response (sorry in 
advance):Right now with Rocketboom, for instance, we are 
stuck.I feel like we have pretty much hit a ceiling and its a 
miserable and  terrible place to be.In my head, I have a 
list of 1000 things I want to do with  Rocketboom. The list is 
sorted into priorities. I'm finding that the  list is not 
scrolling, its just getting longer every day.We are at a place right 
now where its starting to snowball in this  way; the list keeps 
getting longer, no movement in the line.Nothing more needed, only 
desired.For instance:Man, I love it and get all lit up when 
I see an HD camera. I like  gadgets and this is becoming "the" 
gadget for me. But alas, I cant  have that right now.I also 
really like to refine the interface design of our site. I  could 
spend 10hrs a day for the next 6 months just working on the  
website design and adding features. If only I had the money, I 
could  hire someone to help me with this full time and they could 
start  taking action right now.One of my very favorite 
parts to Rocketboom and the reason why I  started it, is because I 
love internet culture and enjoy surfing  around and discovering 
random things and bringing those things to  light. I could easily 
drop everything and be happy just surfing all  day, writing a text 
blog and eating macaroni and cheese for the rest  of my 
life.I also LOVE to write and enjoy sarcastic humor around profound 
ideas.  Dont know why, but probably my number one desire for 
Rocketboom would  be to build up a team of incredible writers so we 
could all work on  it together (like the Simpsons).I don't 
much like to edit. I am very opinionated about it but I just  dont 
enjoy the actual act of using software to edit video. I have  spent 
10 years doing this with audio and I'm just bored by the  activity, 
personally. We had to hire an editor for Rocketboom mostly  because 
it was almost impossible physically to not sleep and we  already 
don't sleep without editing anyway. If I had the money, I'd  try to 
hire Verdi to edit along with the really great editor that we  have 
now, Andre (so that they could share the work and have more time  
to do other things

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Andreas Haugstrup]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:02:05 +0200, Charles HOPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

> http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/gdrmain.htm

I've been introduced in a more contemporary context with organizational  
communication through Lars Thøger Christensen and George Cheney. Auto  
communication and the seductive media. I'm sure the nazis were all about  
it too (is this were I bring up Godwin's Law?) :o)

- Andreas
-- 
http://www.solitude.dk/>
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Randolfe Wicker]

Andrew, before I found this group I spent about a 
week exploring vlogs on the Internet.  Rocketboom was one of vlogs which 
stood out as being sophisticated and professional.
 
I'm sure you will have a rapidly growing audience 
as you continue.  In fact, I suspect you might find yourself "tempted" with 
offers from commercial broadcasters very soon.
 
I noticed you mentioned wanting to have third world 
sources for your vlog.  A documentary maker who did a great piece of work 
entitled "Book Wars" is now located in Cambodia and attempting to film and 
report on indigenous people in that country.  I forwarded your post to 
him.  Don't know if he will be interested or not. Just thought the two of 
you should be aware of each other's existence. JRE-mail 
Address(es):  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
I think your description of how music became 
democratized and enabled musicians to earn a range of income instead of being 
made millionaires or left to starve by "gatekeepers" is right on target. 
Vlogging is a new art form and method of communication.  Blogs have 
exploded to over 14.2 million with 40,000 new ones every day because people now 
can publish their writings on the Internet.  I am sure vlogs will increase 
very rapidly also.  It's just a question as to "how" money and 
commercialization is going to impact vlogging and change it.
 
First you had the three big networks.  Then 
you had cable channels.  Now you have vlogs.  Each one expanded the 
opportunities to have yourself seen and heard.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  andrew 
  michael baron 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:36 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
  Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
  A personal reflection on my response (sorry in 
  advance):Right now with Rocketboom, for instance, we are 
  stuck.I feel like we have pretty much hit a ceiling and its a 
  miserable and  terrible place to be.In my head, I have a list 
  of 1000 things I want to do with  Rocketboom. The list is sorted into 
  priorities. I'm finding that the  list is not scrolling, its just 
  getting longer every day.We are at a place right now where its 
  starting to snowball in this  way; the list keeps getting longer, no 
  movement in the line.Nothing more needed, only desired.For 
  instance:Man, I love it and get all lit up when I see an HD camera. I 
  like  gadgets and this is becoming "the" gadget for me. But alas, I 
  cant  have that right now.I also really like to refine the 
  interface design of our site. I  could spend 10hrs a day for the next 
  6 months just working on the  website design and adding features. If 
  only I had the money, I could  hire someone to help me with this full 
  time and they could start  taking action right now.One of my 
  very favorite parts to Rocketboom and the reason why I  started it, 
  is because I love internet culture and enjoy surfing  around and 
  discovering random things and bringing those things to  light. I 
  could easily drop everything and be happy just surfing all  day, 
  writing a text blog and eating macaroni and cheese for the rest  of 
  my life.I also LOVE to write and enjoy sarcastic humor around profound 
  ideas.  Dont know why, but probably my number one desire for 
  Rocketboom would  be to build up a team of incredible writers so we 
  could all work on  it together (like the Simpsons).I don't 
  much like to edit. I am very opinionated about it but I just  dont 
  enjoy the actual act of using software to edit video. I have  spent 
  10 years doing this with audio and I'm just bored by the  activity, 
  personally. We had to hire an editor for Rocketboom mostly  because 
  it was almost impossible physically to not sleep and we  already 
  don't sleep without editing anyway. If I had the money, I'd  try to 
  hire Verdi to edit along with the really great editor that we  have 
  now, Andre (so that they could share the work and have more time  to 
  do other things themselves).I HATE to be on camera. I have tried it. I 
  have gotten over it and  will let it happen. I am slowly, at my own 
  pace, warming up to it,  but I am not letting this feeling that I 
  have get in the way of my  desire to videoblog.I never 
  thought of myself as a director, but I'm finding this may be  the 
  final end to the activity I enjoy the most - probably because it  
  involves trying to create something out of nothing. Everone is their  
  own director though I enjoy thinking about scenes that are larger  
  than just myself anyway.I really love people, but for some reason, 
  I am a loner. If I did not  have Rocketboom, I would have no friends 
  and no social life. Now I  have amazing people in my life because of 
  this and if I had the  resources, I would be able to spend more time 
  with them.Before I took a ri

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Charles HOPE]

Andreas Haugstrup wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:50:53 +0200, Randolfe Wicker  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
> My "last" professional writing assignment was to go down to a bank
and  
> write a story about "how the bank communicated to its new
employees that  
> it was genuinely concerned about his or her welfare".  Doing that
made  
> me want to puke.  I would rather shine shoes for passers-by on a
street  
> corner than slave away writing something I really disliked.
  
There is a theory about that kind communication saying that you can
only  
"seduce" your customers if you yourself has been "seduced". Simply
meaning  
that you can't "sell" a product without being "sold" yourself first.
If  
the writing assignment made you want to puke the result will most
likely  
also make the customers want to puke.
  
In layman's terms: You ain't fooling nobody. :o)
  

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/gdrmain.htm



  




  
  
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begin:vcard
fn:Charles HOPE
n:HOPE;Charles
org:Pokkari
adr;dom:;;;Brooklyn;NY
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Partner / Developer
note;quoted-printable:http://chope.blip.tv=0D=0A=
	http://www.pokkari.tv/blog/category/author/chope/=0D=0A=
	
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.pokkari.tv
version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Andreas Haugstrup]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:50:53 +0200, Randolfe Wicker  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My "last" professional writing assignment was to go down to a bank and  
> write a story about "how the bank communicated to its new employees that  
> it was genuinely concerned about his or her welfare".  Doing that made  
> me want to puke.  I would rather shine shoes for passers-by on a street  
> corner than slave away writing something I really disliked.

There is a theory about that kind communication saying that you can only  
"seduce" your customers if you yourself has been "seduced". Simply meaning  
that you can't "sell" a product without being "sold" yourself first. If  
the writing assignment made you want to puke the result will most likely  
also make the customers want to puke.

In layman's terms: You ain't fooling nobody. :o)

- Andreas
-- 
http://www.solitude.dk/>
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Randolfe Wicker]

I agree with Jan.  There seems to be a very 
special quality of openness and cooperation and excitement among 
vloggers.
 
Making money out of what passionately involves you 
far too frequently involves what I call "prostitution of the soul".  I was 
a professional writer for several years.  I finally resolved to go into 
retailing and to only use my writing skill in a manner which pleased 
me.
 
My "last" professional writing assignment was to go 
down to a bank and write a story about "how the bank communicated to its new 
employees that it was genuinely concerned about his or her welfare".  Doing 
that made me want to puke.  I would rather shine shoes for passers-by on a 
street corner than slave away writing something I really disliked.
 
Art is most enjoyable when it is not exploited for 
commercial gain.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan 
  McLaughlin 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:04 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
  Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
  Hope the 'I-word' (innovation) is discussed thoroughly 
  throughout the  vlogosphere in the coming weeks.As usual, 
  thoughtfully expressed Mr. Baron.High emotion often originates in 
  frustration. Certainly, I'm  frustrated. And scared. What if it 
  doesn't work? What if somebody  steals my ideas before I'm able to 
  lay the groundwork? What if I fail?  What if . . 
  .Yeah.High emotion.Of one thing I am sure: being a 
  part of this community is worth a lot  that is unmeasurable in 
  dollars or sense but still tangible, spendable  (if not at the Apple 
  Store) and bankable.The vlogosphere is rich, rich beyond our wildest 
  dreams and we don't  even know it. Something tells me that is the 
  best kind of wealth to  have (and not because the government can't 
  tax it - yet).Jan--  "It isn't done alone. Pay 
  more."http://fauxpress.blogspot.comhttp://blog.urbanartadventures.comhttp://vlogpresskit.blogspot.comhttp://the-hold.blogspot.com.On 
  Aug 13, 2005, at 9:12 AM, andrew michael baron wrote:> To me its 
  sad to see so many people here that love Videoblogging and> want to do 
  it all day not make any money from it.>> As a result, they have 
  to spend their time making money doing other> "related" things or 
  activities that they don't like, or be poor and> 
  unhealthy.>> Its always better to make money doing things you 
  like.>> I think that people who say they DONT want to make money 
  from> videoblogging, or say "I dont care", are basically saying that 
  this> is just a hobby for them and they dont take it very seriously 
  (at> least not as seriously as someone who wants to make a career out 
  of it)>> 1) We all need money to live.>> 2) Most 
  people claim you are happier and do better for the world when> you make 
  money from doing the things you enjoy.>> 3) People who do not 
  want to make money from videoblogging, more-than-> likely, dont take 
  videoblogging as seriously as someone who wants to> make a career out 
  of it.>> 4) People who do not want to make money from 
  videoblogging, will> likely spend their lives doing other things to 
  make money.>> 5) Many people are starting to get very frustrated 
  and unreasonable> because they are not making any money from doing what 
  they love to do.>> 6) No one has really figured out a system 
  that will work for more> than just their individual situation, but more 
  than likely a few> popular models of revenue will 
  emerge.>> 7) Now is the time to try and innovate. Especially 
  before it all> falls into more of the same kinds of business 
  models.>> On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti 
  wrote:>>>>>> My colleague and I have been 
  brainstorming podcasting ideas and we>> figure the best way to do it 
  and do it right is to obtain>> underwriting,>> 
  sponsorships, and the like with advertising coming in at a close>> 
  second>> or third.>>>>>> 
  Yahoo! Groups 
  Links>>>>>>>




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[David Yirchott]

Responding to this offline. Will cc Verdi.

-David



>From: Markus Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, 
>Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
>Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 08:00:01 -0700
>
>I disagree with you David.  I do not think Verdi's response was unfair
>or cruel at all.
>
>I think the point is to "raise the bar".
>
>Markus
>
>David Yirchott wrote:
>
> >Wow, Verdi. I think that response is, to say the least, a bit unfair. I
> >don't see the point in trying to cruelly shame somebody out of their 
>dream.
> >I also don't see the point in publicly damning a member of the community 
>for
> >simply asking for some help.








  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Randolfe Wicker]

Michael Verdi's critique about "making a buck" 
podcasting or vlogging is understandably paranoid.  In most media, the 
bland and the bad crowd out the unique and the good.
 
I heard my first critique about using vlogging to 
make money last night at a "special event" at the Apple Store in SoHo.  The 
presenters ran a film/video two-day workshop ($495 to $595 for 16 hours hand-on 
instruction) which seemed to be the reason for their 
presentation.
 
They said they had gone to a website that sold 
magic tricks.  Instead of descriptions, you clicked on the picture of the 
trick and saw a short 30 second or 60 second video of the magic trick being 
performed.
 
They seemed to know virtually nothing about 
vlogging.  However, their description of Internet video being used as a 
sales tool for a product is certainly something that is going to grow.  
Internet video will be co-opted and used as insertions into web advertising on a 
regular basis in the very near future.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Verdi 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:43 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions 
  Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
  On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti 
  wrote:> My colleague and I have been brainstorming podcasting ideas and 
  we> figure the best way to do it and do it right is to obtain  
  > underwriting,> sponsorships, and the like with advertising 
  coming in at a close  > second> or 
  third.>Hey Mike,This is pretty much a flame.  Don't 
  take it personally, I don't even  know who you are.  Your email 
  though brings up what I think is a  really important point that I 
  didn't want to let slide.Personally, I think that quote above tells me 
  your looking at this  whole thing as a means to make a buck.  In 
  my opinion this dooms you  to a life of producing complete and utter 
  bullshit.  Listen, if your  stuff hit the right demographic and 
  was bland enough you'd be on the  radio or TV already.  Since 
  it's not, you must be looking to be a low  budget imitation of bland, 
  mindless crap.  That doesn't seem like a  very good business 
  plan.Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get 
  yourselves  on the radio or TV if that's what you want.  If, on 
  the other hand,  what you really want is to podcast or videoblog, I 
  have a few places  to start:  1. Brainstorm some good ideas 
  about content and forget  about good ideas for underwriting.  2. 
  Better yet, fuck  brainstorming, if you're creative you probably have 
  some stuff you're  just dying to do - do that instead.  3. Quit 
  lurking around and just  get started.  Then get better at 
  it.Peace--Verdihttp://michaelverdi.comhttp://freevlog.orghttp://graymattergravy.com

  




  
  
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RE: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[David Yirchott]

RadioMike,
Congratulations on your new project. I wish you and your colleague all the 
best!

Below I will share my thoughts and knowledge, but this is still somewhat 
uncharted territory. I am not an expert and your mileage may vary:

First, I agree with your assessment of securing an underwriter/sponsor. If 
you can get one, it often means more money than a typical advertising rate 
card will pay out and the opportunity to build a solid business relationship 
with a company that has similar interests and target audiences as your own.


>My questions regarding this are mostly how does one present statistics
>and audience numbers to a potential underwriter when the potential
>podcast has not been produced and downloaded by anyone yet (I can
>probably dig up statistics and audience numbers from my one-time podcast
>that I had to put on hiatus due to the emergency of finding paid
>employment in Austin.


First and foremost, you should ask yourself, "What does the potential 
sponsor want?" That simple question will keep the rest of your work focused. 
Is it a local sponsor? National? What sort of demographics are they looking 
for? At this point, without a show-specific track record, you aren't selling 
a product, you're selling a concept. Which means a certain amount of 
forecasting is acceptable, but back it up with whatever data you can get. 
For instance, if there is a similar podcast, try to find out what numbers 
they get. Get general information about podcasters. I recently posted a link 
to a survey that showed people who read blogs tend to be younger and 
wealthier than typical web surfers. Find out what you can about podcast 
listeners.

The numbers you have from your previous show are great, especially if this 
new show is similar. First of all, it is good that the numbers from your 
last show (July 6, 2005) are recent. But the next question is what kind of 
numbers do you have? Do they support the goals of the potential sponsor? If 
you can track the location of downloaders, are your numbers from local 
sources? Keep in mind that not all local users will appear to derive from a 
local source. AOL users, I believe, generally show up coming from Virginia. 
But if you have numbers from Malaysia and you have a local sponsor that may 
not be seen as a benefit.

Find out if you can, your previous show's numbers of pageviews and unique 
users. Keep in mind that if you are delivering your podcast in a feed, 
people with podcatchers don't have to visit your site, which can, of course, 
decrease pageviews and unique user numbers. And will make any of the 
sponsor's banner ads and links on your site underperform.

What I'd suggest: certainly mention the sponsor in the podcast, but try to 
drive traffic to the sponsor's site, your site, or both. Have something on 
your website a listener will not get from just the podcast: pictures, a 
blog, articles, links for more information, or a way to give feedback. 
Create a contest: have your sponsor donate his/her product and give it away 
on your website. Set up a contest entry form on your website and tell people 
about it on your show. That makes it easy and more acceptable to mention the 
sponsor, and it should drive traffic to your homepage.

Tell the sponsor What it is about your new podcast that is likely to 
increase your numbers over the previous one. Do your numbers show a loyal 
audience that will function as a foundation for your new show? Did your 
numbers indicate a steady audience growth? Will you have more advertising 
this time around? Will you be listed on iTunes (again, likely not a benefit 
for a local sponsor)?

Also, you may not want to mention stopping your show to find emergency 
employment. I do not Know the details surrounding the situation, but a 
business wants to know that they are making an investment in a stable 
project. last thing you want is a potential sponsor wondering if -- after 
they invest in you -- you're going to go on another hiatus.



>And also, how does one determine
>an underwriting rate or fee for a new podcast or videoblog?


This is virtually uncharted territory bacause it is a new distribution 
model. What impact do you suspect this sponsorship will have for you and for 
the sponsor. Sometimes it is worth losing money to be affiliated with a 
certain business. If that is not the case here, come up with a number that 
will give your sponsor the perception of value and you a reason to keep them 
around. Do Internet searches. Often

there is a lot of guidance than can be derived from Google searches.



>The same questions also apply for the websites themselves where the
>podcast is hosted or originated, but in relation to Banner ads
>Googleads, Adwords, Blogads, etc and what is the most effective out of
>the bunch for that and how much should be charged for the various types
>of the above whether they be Underwriters, Sponsors, etc.


I am not sure I understand this part. Adwords, for instance is a service 
where y

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Michael Verdi]

On Aug 13, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Clint Sharp wrote:

> What I object to is people deciding what people's motivations are.   
> It's
> not up to us to determine people's motivations for doing this.
I'm just calling it like I see it.  If you read my email, and I've  
said it twice now, this isn't about him personally.

> If what
> you're saying is true, and their motivation is money first, then their
> stuff will suck anyways and it will be totally irrelevant.  That being
> the case, wouldn't it be better to just help them along their way like
> we do with everyone else?

Absolutely not.  I totally disagree.  I think it's vitally important  
that we keep reminding people that crash in here (individuals, MSM,  
big corporations, etc) what's really important about videoblogging.

See these as examples ( I vlog about it a lot because I think it's  
important):
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/02/12/the-next-generation/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/02/20/vlog-anarchy/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/02/27/vlog-anarchy-take-2/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/03/01/what-do-you-love-about- 
your-life/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/04/13/dreaming/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/05/06/freevlogorg/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/06/10/senator-john-edwards/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/07/20/the-yang-of-vlogging/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/07/20/the-yin-of-vlogging/
http://michaelverdi.com/index.php/2005/07/30/friday-lunch-1/

--
Verdi
http://michaelverdi.com
http://freevlog.org
http://graymattergravy.com











  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Clint Sharp]

Michael Verdi wrote:

>
> Anyway, I just firmly believe that when you sit down to think about 
> what to do in the world and the first thing that comes to mind is 
> "what's going to make money?" that you're dooming yourself to 
> failure.  That failure may take different forms - artistic, monetary, 
> spiritual, all of the above - but rest assured, it'll be there.

What I object to is people deciding what people's motivations are.  It's 
not up to us to determine people's motivations for doing this.  If what 
you're saying is true, and their motivation is money first, then their 
stuff will suck anyways and it will be totally irrelevant.  That being 
the case, wouldn't it be better to just help them along their way like 
we do with everyone else?

Going on hike today to a waterfall, so I'll be offline for the rest of 
the day.  Hope to get some good footage. Cheers everyone.

Clint

-- 
Clint Sharp
New Media Guy & Technologist
ClintSharp.com    Contact Info: http://clintsharp.com/contact/

We are the media. 




  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Jay dedman]

>> Personally, I think that quote above tells me your looking at this  
>>  whole thing as a means to make a buck.  In my opinion this dooms you  
>>  to a life of producing complete and utter bullshit. 
>  
>  Is it true?
>  
>>  My guess is that there are people who start with the desire to make bags of
>> cash, and then cast around for whatever content they think will earn them
>> the most. And then there are people who are artistically passionate and
>> create because they can't help themselves, and would do so if they had no
>> audience, but end up making filthy lucre because millions love their work.
>  
>  Can you tell which content is which when you consume it?

i wish some of the people in this conversation would answer Charles'
great comment.
the fact is that some new guy spammed the group with an email (it was
sent to other groups as well).
he says "im thinking about making a videoblog...how can i get money"?
id like people to give a direct answer like verdi did.
it is, you got to admit, a funny way to approach videoblogging.

i sent out an email this week saying that there are two kinds of
videoblogs emerging:
--people who want to take on Mainstream Media with similar formats,
but different distribution, stealing away the huge funding behind it
--people who are just making videoblogs becasue they are documenting
life and their ideas.

and as was pointed out to me, there are lots of exceptions and overlaps.
but the way that Rocket Boom's Andrew Baron and Erin of Mom's Brag
Blog approach videoblogging are different.
and both are valid and exciting.

with this two-pronged approach, MainStream media doesnt have a chance.
unless they coopt this exact approach.
("hey guys, MTV will pay you 300$ a month to make your videoblog as
long as you use these MTV things in your videos." dont laugh.)

we need to make sure those people as creative as Andrew can create
shows to pull people away from the bullshit in traditional media...AT
THE SAME TIME let people who just want to share videos with their
family know their work is important.

So if you want to discuss alteernative business models, shoot.
me and some others have created the rel="payment" system.
what i personally do not want is us to forget that CONTENT is the most
important thing.

how much money anyone makes in videoblogging does not say how
important your work or dedication is.

Jay
__

Fun fact: the remake of the "Dukes of Hazzard" TV show is the top
movie this week at 30.6 million dollars...





jay



  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[andrew michael baron]

On Aug 13, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Michael Verdi wrote:
>
> Here's where I'm coming from.  I'm an artist.  I've seen how it goes
> for artists.  Almost all the time you make very little money for what
> you do.  There's always the possibility that you'll be one of the few
> people to make enough money to live off of or maybe you'll even be
> one of the very, very few who becomes wealthy from what they do.

I think this is the most impoartnat thing to do is reconsider your  
view point on this. You assume this to be the case because it was  
this way in the past.

Look at the musical artist. It used to be like this. As a musician,  
you either made 1,000,000 or you were in debt. There was no in  
between. NONE.

Now, as a musician, you can make $1000/mo, $2000/mo, $3000/mo $4000/ 
mo, or any amount. MANY DO. This is a big change. Its because the  
technology got cheap and the Intenet let distribution and promotion  
flow. And people could try hard and not be dependent on a handful of  
elite companies.

You can see the paralell here. Now with video, despite what you said,  
more than a few people can make a comfortable living doing it,  
without the competitive gatekeeprs in the way.


> Anyway, I just firmly believe that when you sit down to think about
> what to do in the world and the first thing that comes to mind is
> "what's going to make money?" that you're dooming yourself to
> failure.  That failure may take different forms - artistic, monetary,
> spiritual, all of the above - but rest assured, it'll be there.


No one has ever questioned this. This is extreme to infer that anyone  
here is videoblogging for the number one purpose to make money. Has  
anyone ever said that they are doing this? I have never assumed this  
from anything anyone has ever said.






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[andrew michael baron]

A personal reflection on my response (sorry in advance):

Right now with Rocketboom, for instance, we are stuck.

I feel like we have pretty much hit a ceiling and its a miserable and  
terrible place to be.

In my head, I have a list of 1000 things I want to do with  
Rocketboom. The list is sorted into priorities. I'm finding that the  
list is not scrolling, its just getting longer every day.

We are at a place right now where its starting to snowball in this  
way; the list keeps getting longer, no movement in the line.

Nothing more needed, only desired.

For instance:

Man, I love it and get all lit up when I see an HD camera. I like  
gadgets and this is becoming "the" gadget for me. But alas, I cant  
have that right now.

I also really like to refine the interface design of our site. I  
could spend 10hrs a day for the next 6 months just working on the  
website design and adding features. If only I had the money, I could  
hire someone to help me with this full time and they could start  
taking action right now.

One of my very favorite parts to Rocketboom and the reason why I  
started it, is because I love internet culture and enjoy surfing  
around and discovering random things and bringing those things to  
light. I could easily drop everything and be happy just surfing all  
day, writing a text blog and eating macaroni and cheese for the rest  
of my life.

I also LOVE to write and enjoy sarcastic humor around profound ideas.  
Dont know why, but probably my number one desire for Rocketboom would  
be to build up a team of incredible writers so we could all work on  
it together (like the Simpsons).

I don't much like to edit. I am very opinionated about it but I just  
dont enjoy the actual act of using software to edit video. I have  
spent 10 years doing this with audio and I'm just bored by the  
activity, personally. We had to hire an editor for Rocketboom mostly  
because it was almost impossible physically to not sleep and we  
already don't sleep without editing anyway. If I had the money, I'd  
try to hire Verdi to edit along with the really great editor that we  
have now, Andre (so that they could share the work and have more time  
to do other things themselves).

I HATE to be on camera. I have tried it. I have gotten over it and  
will let it happen. I am slowly, at my own pace, warming up to it,  
but I am not letting this feeling that I have get in the way of my  
desire to videoblog.

I never thought of myself as a director, but I'm finding this may be  
the final end to the activity I enjoy the most - probably because it  
involves trying to create something out of nothing. Everone is their  
own director though I enjoy thinking about scenes that are larger  
than just myself anyway.

I really love people, but for some reason, I am a loner. If I did not  
have Rocketboom, I would have no friends and no social life. Now I  
have amazing people in my life because of this and if I had the  
resources, I would be able to spend more time with them.

Before I took a right turn into "videoblogging", I was about to  
travel around the world and do the kinds of things that Andy Carvin  
is doing in helping to bring technology to 2nd and 3rd world  
countries that want it. I am mostly interested in wi-max and how a  
single cheap tower could be put on a hill to provide free internet  
access to an entire town or village. A lot of people have heard me  
say this before, but now, with everything I know about videoblogging,  
I know as matter of fact, if I ever have any extra money, I will fund  
videobloggers in remote regions. If I had the resources, I would do  
this right now. I would do it because I believe its the most powerful  
route to the kind of world peace that can only be talked about now in  
fiction.

All of this leads me to think that I have found the right career in  
videoblogging and that I wond up here because its the perfect  
marriage of elements for me and I hope this is some kind of valuable  
reflection for anyone that questions the value and importance  
videoblogging can have on people who may want to make money from it  
and why.

Back to the pending issues. . .

On Aug 13, 2005, at 11:14 AM, andrew michael baron wrote:


> I see it as lowering the bar. Some people put so much value into
> their work that they are unwilling to publish it unless they think
> its perfect to them. This is not bad. This does not mean its not
> videoblogging. Maybe they have decided that they want to videoblog,
> but they want to bring their high production standards to the table.
> Thats not unfair or wrong.
>
> This being the case, maybe they need some money to get started.
>
> How about a kid in a third world country that wants to videoblog but
> doesn't have access to a computer, a modem etc. They may have to
> spend years trying to get sponsorships, etc. before getting enough
> together to start.
>
> Again, lets try not to tell people how or what to do with so much  
> fo

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Michael Verdi]

Like I said, this is not about RaidoMike personally.  Let me try to  
dial the anger back and try to be clear about what I've been trying  
to say for weeks now.

On Aug 13, 2005, at 9:12 AM, andrew michael baron wrote:
> I think that people who say they DONT want to make money from
> videoblogging, or say "I dont care", are basically saying that this
> is just a hobby for them and they dont take it very seriously (at
> least not as seriously as someone who wants to make a career out of  
> it)

Here's where I'm coming from.  I'm an artist.  I've seen how it goes  
for artists.  Almost all the time you make very little money for what  
you do.  There's always the possibility that you'll be one of the few  
people to make enough money to live off of or maybe you'll even be  
one of the very, very few who becomes wealthy from what they do.  But  
in the end all of that is besides the point.  Let's say somehow God  
were to come down from the sky and say "Verdi, since you don't  
believe in me I'm going to guarantee that you will never make a dime  
from art!"  You know what?  It wouldn't effect what I do one bit.   
Why? Because I don't do any of this to make money.  I do it because I  
love doing it and I have to do it.

Now, for some crazy reason people take this to mean that I don't want  
to make money or even worse, that I'm not serious about what I do.   
I'm not against making money.  I've actually made some money at  
this.  To me it's a miracle and I would love for it to continue.  In  
fact, I'd even like to make more.  But the truth is I'd do all of  
this for free (even the O'Reilly book but those suckers already  
signed a contract with me).  Money is not my motivation.  That comes  
from from the insane pleasure of doing good work. And I take doing  
good work very seriously!  For me videoblogging is part of my now 16  
year career in art.  How it works for me is that I do a bunch of  
stuff - some of it brings in no money some of it does.  I fully  
expect that at any moment I'll be back to doing everything for free.   
That's been the situation many times - just ask my wife, she'll tell  
you lots of stories.

Anyway, I just firmly believe that when you sit down to think about  
what to do in the world and the first thing that comes to mind is  
"what's going to make money?" that you're dooming yourself to  
failure.  That failure may take different forms - artistic, monetary,  
spiritual, all of the above - but rest assured, it'll be there.

--
Verdi
http://michaelverdi.com
http://freevlog.org
http://graymattergravy.com





  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[skullcrew webmaster]

Ok so maybe I am just retarded or something but I am not sure why anyone cares to be on TV?There is tons of money out on the internet that has nothing to do with TV or Advertisers or sponsorships (BTW I think the who sponsorship idea is really a bad one because then you are in total control of the sponsor).I have been making money on the internet since 2001 selling t-shirts on my site (http://www.angryshirts.com [plug]) way before t-shirts sites were a dime a dozen. I know that now would be the time to get settled in your own mind on how you would like to make money off your vlog.Here are some suggestions from me. (I plan on doing these exact things when the time is write. Timing is everything, and personally I only think that two or three of all the vlogs out there are "ready". I have contacted on of them already. (RB)1. Asking from donations from your fans. (you'd be surprised how many people donate to something they really believe in. especially when there are no commercials to bother them. I would watch alot more TV if I paid for the channels I wanted to see and they had no commercials. Same goes for radio.)2. Sell a product with your logo on it. (T-shirt, hat, cup something that a fan can show their support and spread the word with.)3. Encourage people to re-distribute your vlog. Encourage people to repost it on their site. (sounds weird but it will make you more popular which helps with 1 and 2).I have a ton more, but I don't have time to share them. I have to run now.I just couldn't take anymore bad ideas flying through the email group without saying something...thanks.,...nixter out. =Xhttp://www.skullcrew.comhttp://www.angryshirts.com  Great advice.  Software developers should take note too.  markus   Michael Verdi wrote:  >>Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get yourselves   >>on the radio or TV if that's what you want.  If, on the other hand,   >>what you really want is to podcast or videoblog, I have a few places   >>to start:  1. Brainstorm some good ideas about content and forget   >>about good ideas for underwriting.  2. Better yet, fuck   >>brainstorming, if you're creative you probably have some stuff you're   >>just dying to do - do that instead.  3. Quit lurking around and just   >>get started.  Then get better at it. >>     >>   --   My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us  http://apperceptions.org http://apperceive.com http://app.etitio.us  http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ http://spinflow.org  http://spinsummer2005.blogspot.com http://spinsummer2005meetup.blogspot.com http://vloggercuewest.blogspot.com  aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]SPONSORED LINKS  Individual  Fireant  Explains YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Markus Sandy]

Clint Sharp wrote:

  Is your attitude poor?  Yes.  


I feel very differently.  

I feel that the "political correctness" that many advocate will
ultimately "lower the bar" and that Michael is trying to raise it.

I highly recommend listening to this wonderful documentary on "The
History of New Music in Los Angeles" from archive.org

http://www.archive.org/audio/audio-details-db.php?collection=other_minds&collectionid=NewMusicInLA

It explains why Hollywood was unable to mix cultures with the the
European creatives that came there in the 30's and 40's.

markus

"Those who do not study the past are doomed to repeat it."
-- 

My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us

http://apperceptions.org
http://apperceive.com
http://app.etitio.us

http://wearethemedia.com
http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/
http://spinflow.org

http://spinsummer2005.blogspot.com
http://spinsummer2005meetup.blogspot.com
http://vloggercuewest.blogspot.com

aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype: msandy
spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[andrew michael baron]

>
> I think the point is to "raise the bar".
>>
>> My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us
>>
>> http://apperceptions.org
>> http://apperceive.com
>> http://app.etitio.us
>>
>> http://wearethemedia.com
>> http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/
>> http://spinflow.org
>>
>> http://spinsummer2005.blogspot.com
>> http://spinsummer2005meetup.blogspot.com
>> http://vloggercuewest.blogspot.com
>>
>> aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> skype: msandy
>> spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

I see it as lowering the bar. Some people put so much value into  
their work that they are unwilling to publish it unless they think  
its perfect to them. This is not bad. This does not mean its not  
videoblogging. Maybe they have decided that they want to videoblog,  
but they want to bring their high production standards to the table.  
Thats not unfair or wrong.

This being the case, maybe they need some money to get started.

How about a kid in a third world country that wants to videoblog but  
doesn't have access to a computer, a modem etc. They may have to  
spend years trying to get sponsorships, etc. before getting enough  
together to start.

Again, lets try not to tell people how or what to do with so much force.









  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[andrew michael baron]

>
>
>>> Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get  
>>> yourselves
>>> on the radio or TV if that's what you want.



Ok god damn it. This is just the most depressing thing to hear at  
this point. I feel like trying to talk about TV and radio as being  
something "otherly" is just a crock.

This is just extremist.  Marshall Mclluean is no longer in fashion.  
The medium can be the message, but we are witnessing the convergence  
of the medium and the message. If you DO think the medium is the  
message, then I guess there is nothing more to say.

Lets try to be more careful about isolating a definition. Better to  
keep it open and let everything flow naturally.

And remember, there is more than one approach, more than one end,  
more than one method.






  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Markus Sandy]

I disagree with you David.  I do not think Verdi's response was unfair 
or cruel at all.

I think the point is to "raise the bar". 

Markus

David Yirchott wrote:

>Wow, Verdi. I think that response is, to say the least, a bit unfair. I 
>don't see the point in trying to cruelly shame somebody out of their dream. 
>I also don't see the point in publicly damning a member of the community for 
>simply asking for some help.
>
>
>  
>

-- 

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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Markus Sandy]

Great advice.  Software developers should take note too.

markus


Michael Verdi wrote:

>>Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get yourselves  
>>on the radio or TV if that's what you want.  If, on the other hand,  
>>what you really want is to podcast or videoblog, I have a few places  
>>to start:  1. Brainstorm some good ideas about content and forget  
>>about good ideas for underwriting.  2. Better yet, fuck  
>>brainstorming, if you're creative you probably have some stuff you're  
>>just dying to do - do that instead.  3. Quit lurking around and just  
>>get started.  Then get better at it.
>>    
>>


-- 

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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[andrew michael baron]

On Aug 13, 2005, at 10:16 AM, Frank Carver wrote:
>
>
>> Its always better to make money doing things you like.
>>
>
> I'm not so sure. Over the years, I've made money doing a whole range
> of things, some I really liked, and some I didn't. Sometimes I worked
> for myself, sometimes for others. Doing something that you chose as a
> hobby, but turning it into a career has some subtle drawbacks as well
> as the obvious advantages.
>

Can you give a specific example where it is better to spend your life  
makeing money doing things that you don't like to do? And spending  
your life not making money doing the things you like to do?


>
>> 3) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, more- 
>> than-
>> likely, dont take videoblogging as seriously as someone who wants to
>> make a career out of it.
>>
>
> Not necessarily. I know plenty of people who are more passionate and
> "professional" about hobbies and interests than they are about their
> job/career.
>

Yes, but would those same people choose to spend more time on their  
hobby, if they had the money? If not, I guess that means that they  
are not as interested or unable.


> Look at the software field as a classic example. Some of the best,
> most practical, most popular, software in the world is produced by
> "amateurs" working for free (or for tips, or hugs, or whatever). Why
> should video be any different?
>

This happens in every field. Its one thing to create a hit and its  
another thing to contune to develop and nuture the hit. I'm speaking  
more about the consequences to the human when money is not made from  
their efforts, not so much the value that can come out of a free work.

>
>> 4) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, will
>> likely spend their lives doing other things to make money.
>>
>
> In the real world, turning a hobby or interest into a career often
> means that, rather than spending (say) 8 hours a day doing a
> relatively dull, generic job, earning cash while dreaming and planning
> about your hobby, instead you spend _at_least_ 8 hours a day choked up
> with the trivia of running a business: marketing products and
> services, dealing with suppliers and customers, keeping accounts,
> observing laws and regulations, and (most of all) worrying.
>

These kinds of qualities go along with "career" in any field.  
Spending time thinking about running a videoblog is what some people  
who take it very seriously want to do. This is how the field can  
progress. If you want to have a career, it requires a lot of work.  
Some good, and some bad.


> Above all, when it's your career on the line, you can't just quit when
> you get interested in something else.
>

You can always quit. If you are talking about "risk", that is  
something each individual can weigh based on their own enviornment.  
Its always good to have a back-up plan no matter what career you  
decide to take on. Vidoblogging is no different than any other job or  
career you might invest a lot in and then decide later you don't like  
it.


> It may be an illusion, but I've often felt _more_ creative and
> productive when my responsibilities were clearly split between earning
> to pay the bills, and pursuing my interests. Sometimes the creative
> freedom of knowing something is "not important", is itself the spur to
> producing groundbreaking work. The 100% focus and responsibility of
> doing your interests for a living is not for everyone.
>

I agree personal creativity for me is strongest when I don't have the  
time to be creative. What has happened to me now is that I DO spend  
all day busy and doing things related to videoblogging and some of  
thoes things I dont enjoy at all. But I feel very happy overall, and  
very self fufilled because if I was doing some other activity, I  
would also put my all into it and thus, be wasting time and energy,  
for progressing something that I dont care about, instead of  
progressing something that I do. Also, this unfun activity enables  
even more fun for the activities I enjoy.


>
>> 5) Many people are starting to get very frustrated and unreasonable
>> because they are not making any money from doing what they love to  
>> do.
>>
>
> Then these people need to work it out, one way or another.
>
> On the other hand, people who feel creative, comfortable, and
> empowered by the freedom of something being "just a hobby", should
> surely be free to stay that way.
>

Yes! Freedom to do what you want to do is number one (when civil).


>
>> 7) Now is the time to try and innovate. Especially before it all
>> falls into more of the same kinds of business models.
>>
>
> Now this I *completely* agree with.
>
> -- 
> Frank Carver   http://www.makevideo.org.uk
>
>
>
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Charles HOPE]

Somehow I think all the responses are about the sociology of the
mailing list and not about Verdi's point. Which is:

Michael Verdi wrote:
Personally, I think that quote above tells me your
looking at this  
whole thing as a means to make a buck.  In my opinion this dooms you  
to a life of producing complete and utter bullshit. 
  

Is it true?

My guess is that there are people who start with the desire to make
bags of cash, and then cast around for whatever content they think will
earn them the most. And then there are people who are artistically
passionate and create because they can't help themselves, and would do
so if they had no audience, but end up making filthy lucre because
millions love their work.

Can you tell which content is which when you consume it?


  




  
  
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end:vcard

Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Joshua Kinberg]

One of the great things about vidoeblogging as opposed to film or
television is that here you can just begin producing your ideas
without first figuring out the business models. Just do it. Make what
you want to make. See what works. Understand your own process. Build
an audience. You can do this without relying on sources of funding.
Without seeking sponsors or underwriting. Without testing your
material on focus groups, or figuring out which time slot on what
network will reach the demographic you are targeting. that's not
what's happening here.

You want to make something... do it.

Build an audience, your own brand, then see how you can monetize that
(models are still emerging and different models may work differently
for different kinds of content).
There is nothing wrong with making money, but I think if you're trying
to figure out the money first and the content second, then its likely
you won't be making any money and your content will suffer.

-Josh



  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Michael Verdi]

I'm in the middle of writing a response to all of this and Frank's  
email comes in.  Thank you.  Frank, that's one of the best written  
and clearest responses I've read in a while.  I completely agree.
--
Verdi
http://michaelverdi.com
http://freevlog.org
http://graymattergravy.com





  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Frank Carver]

Saturday, August 13, 2005, 2:12:51 PM, andrew michael baron wrote:

> To me its sad to see so many people here that love Videoblogging and 
> want to do it all day not make any money from it.

> As a result, they have to spend their time making money doing other 
> "related" things or activities that they don't like, or be poor and 
> unhealthy.

In many ways I agree with this, and I think it definately needed
saying. But...

> Its always better to make money doing things you like.

I'm not so sure. Over the years, I've made money doing a whole range
of things, some I really liked, and some I didn't. Sometimes I worked
for myself, sometimes for others. Doing something that you chose as a
hobby, but turning it into a career has some subtle drawbacks as well
as the obvious advantages.

> 3) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, more-than-
> likely, dont take videoblogging as seriously as someone who wants to 
> make a career out of it.

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people who are more passionate and
"professional" about hobbies and interests than they are about their
job/career.

Look at the software field as a classic example. Some of the best,
most practical, most popular, software in the world is produced by
"amateurs" working for free (or for tips, or hugs, or whatever). Why
should video be any different?

> 4) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, will 
> likely spend their lives doing other things to make money.

In the real world, turning a hobby or interest into a career often
means that, rather than spending (say) 8 hours a day doing a
relatively dull, generic job, earning cash while dreaming and planning
about your hobby, instead you spend _at_least_ 8 hours a day choked up
with the trivia of running a business: marketing products and
services, dealing with suppliers and customers, keeping accounts,
observing laws and regulations, and (most of all) worrying.

Above all, when it's your career on the line, you can't just quit when
you get interested in something else.

It may be an illusion, but I've often felt _more_ creative and
productive when my responsibilities were clearly split between earning
to pay the bills, and pursuing my interests. Sometimes the creative
freedom of knowing something is "not important", is itself the spur to
producing groundbreaking work. The 100% focus and responsibility of
doing your interests for a living is not for everyone.

> 5) Many people are starting to get very frustrated and unreasonable 
> because they are not making any money from doing what they love to do.

Then these people need to work it out, one way or another.

On the other hand, people who feel creative, comfortable, and
empowered by the freedom of something being "just a hobby", should
surely be free to stay that way.

> 7) Now is the time to try and innovate. Especially before it all 
> falls into more of the same kinds of business models.

Now this I *completely* agree with.

-- 
Frank Carver   http://www.makevideo.org.uk



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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Jan McLaughlin]

Hope the 'I-word' (innovation) is discussed thoroughly throughout the  
vlogosphere in the coming weeks.

As usual, thoughtfully expressed Mr. Baron.

High emotion often originates in frustration. Certainly, I'm  
frustrated. And scared. What if it doesn't work? What if somebody  
steals my ideas before I'm able to lay the groundwork? What if I fail?  
What if . . .

Yeah.

High emotion.

Of one thing I am sure: being a part of this community is worth a lot  
that is unmeasurable in dollars or sense but still tangible, spendable  
(if not at the Apple Store) and bankable.

The vlogosphere is rich, rich beyond our wildest dreams and we don't  
even know it. Something tells me that is the best kind of wealth to  
have (and not because the government can't tax it - yet).

Jan

--  
"It isn't done alone. Pay more."
http://fauxpress.blogspot.com
http://blog.urbanartadventures.com
http://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com
http://the-hold.blogspot.com
.

On Aug 13, 2005, at 9:12 AM, andrew michael baron wrote:

> To me its sad to see so many people here that love Videoblogging and
> want to do it all day not make any money from it.
>
> As a result, they have to spend their time making money doing other
> "related" things or activities that they don't like, or be poor and
> unhealthy.
>
> Its always better to make money doing things you like.
>
> I think that people who say they DONT want to make money from
> videoblogging, or say "I dont care", are basically saying that this
> is just a hobby for them and they dont take it very seriously (at
> least not as seriously as someone who wants to make a career out of it)
>
> 1) We all need money to live.
>
> 2) Most people claim you are happier and do better for the world when
> you make money from doing the things you enjoy.
>
> 3) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, more-than-
> likely, dont take videoblogging as seriously as someone who wants to
> make a career out of it.
>
> 4) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, will
> likely spend their lives doing other things to make money.
>
> 5) Many people are starting to get very frustrated and unreasonable
> because they are not making any money from doing what they love to do.
>
> 6) No one has really figured out a system that will work for more
> than just their individual situation, but more than likely a few
> popular models of revenue will emerge.
>
> 7) Now is the time to try and innovate. Especially before it all
> falls into more of the same kinds of business models.
>
> On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti wrote:
>
>
>>
>> My colleague and I have been brainstorming podcasting ideas and we
>> figure the best way to do it and do it right is to obtain
>> underwriting,
>> sponsorships, and the like with advertising coming in at a close
>> second
>> or third.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[andrew michael baron]

To me its sad to see so many people here that love Videoblogging and  
want to do it all day not make any money from it.

As a result, they have to spend their time making money doing other  
"related" things or activities that they don't like, or be poor and  
unhealthy.

Its always better to make money doing things you like.

I think that people who say they DONT want to make money from  
videoblogging, or say "I dont care", are basically saying that this  
is just a hobby for them and they dont take it very seriously (at  
least not as seriously as someone who wants to make a career out of it)

1) We all need money to live.

2) Most people claim you are happier and do better for the world when  
you make money from doing the things you enjoy.

3) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, more-than- 
likely, dont take videoblogging as seriously as someone who wants to  
make a career out of it.

4) People who do not want to make money from videoblogging, will  
likely spend their lives doing other things to make money.

5) Many people are starting to get very frustrated and unreasonable  
because they are not making any money from doing what they love to do.

6) No one has really figured out a system that will work for more  
than just their individual situation, but more than likely a few  
popular models of revenue will emerge.

7) Now is the time to try and innovate. Especially before it all  
falls into more of the same kinds of business models.

On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti wrote:


>
> My colleague and I have been brainstorming podcasting ideas and we
> figure the best way to do it and do it right is to obtain  
> underwriting,
> sponsorships, and the like with advertising coming in at a close  
> second
> or third.







  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Clint Sharp]

Michael Verdi wrote:

> I wasn't trying to cruelly shame somebody out of their dream.  I'm 
> all about helping people do their thing.  My whole point is, if you 
> want to make money as a content producer go do TV or radio because 
> it's not happening here.  If you do want to videoblog, I stand by my 
> advice.  I think it's good for everyone.
>
Is your advice sound?  Yes.  Is your attitude poor?  Yes.  The guy would probably be perfectly happy to start without sponsorship, but he doesn't know any better, it appears.  You could have provided that same advice without pouncing on the guy.  Seriously, every time someone mentions the topic of sponsorship, advertising, making money in any way, etc, no matter how misguided, you've gone into a tirade.

I really like you, your work is awesome, and your rants crack me the hell up.  Your work has been invaluable to the community, but sometimes you really piss me off (yeah, I know, I do my fair share of pissing off too).  Thusly, I've answered with a Verdi-style rant in vlog.

http://clintsharp.com/archives/2005/08/13/rant/

Clint

-- 
Clint Sharp
New Media Guy & Technologist
ClintSharp.com    Contact Info: http://clintsharp.com/contact/

We are the media. 




  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Kunga]

I think Radio Mike is asking questions only a consultant getting $200 an hour should answer. It is not appropriate to ask for free marketing business plan advice here. You should offer to pay for such advice not expect to get it for free. I do not think you can get money in advance of popularity. Be passionate about your mission and the money will follow you.kbarcroft (gizmo) kungax (Skype) >kungag5 (iChat)  On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti wrote:My colleague and I have been brainstorming podcasting ideas and we figure the best way to do it and do it right is to obtain   underwriting, sponsorships, and the like with advertising coming in at a close   second or third.  On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Michael Verdi wrote: Hey Mike, This is pretty much a flame.  Don't take it personally, I don't even   know who you are.  Your email though brings up what I think is a   really important point that I didn't want to let slide.  Personally, I think that quote above tells me your looking at this   whole thing as a means to make a buck.  In my opinion this dooms you   to a life of producing complete and utter bullshit.  Listen, if your   stuff hit the right demographic and was bland enough you'd be on the   radio or TV already.  Since it's not, you must be looking to be a low   budget imitation of bland, mindless crap.  That doesn't seem like a   very good business plan.  Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get yourselves   on the radio or TV if that's what you want.  If, on the other hand,   what you really want is to podcast or videoblog, I have a few places   to start:  1. Brainstorm some good ideas about content and forget   about good ideas for underwriting.  2. Better yet, fuck   brainstorming, if you're creative you probably have some stuff you're   just dying to do - do that instead.  3. Quit lurking around and just   get started.  Then get better at it.  Peace  -- Verdi http://michaelverdi.com http://freevlog.org http://graymattergravy.com 




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Michael Verdi]

I wasn't trying to cruelly shame somebody out of their dream.  I'm  
all about helping people do their thing.  My whole point is, if you  
want to make money as a content producer go do TV or radio because  
it's not happening here.  If you do want to videoblog, I stand by my  
advice.  I think it's good for everyone.

1. Brainstorm some good ideas about content and forget
about good ideas for underwriting.
2. Better yet, fuck brainstorming, if you're creative you probably  
have some stuff you're
just dying to do - do that instead.
3. Quit lurking around and just get started.  Then get better at it.
--
Verdi
http://michaelverdi.com
http://freevlog.org
http://graymattergravy.com




On Aug 13, 2005, at 12:26 AM, David Yirchott wrote:

> I
> don't see the point in trying to cruelly shame somebody out of  
> their dream.
> I also don't see the point in publicly damning a member of the  
> community for
> simply asking for some help.




  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[David Yirchott]

Wow, Verdi. I think that response is, to say the least, a bit unfair. I 
don't see the point in trying to cruelly shame somebody out of their dream. 
I also don't see the point in publicly damning a member of the community for 
simply asking for some help.

RadioMike, I have to get some sleep as I work in the morning. I'll post a 
legitimate (I can't guarantee it will be helpful, but it'll be legitimate) 
response Saturday.

Congratulations on the new project.

-David



>From: Michael Verdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, 
>Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.
>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:43:51 -0400
>
>On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti wrote:
> > My colleague and I have been brainstorming podcasting ideas and we
> > figure the best way to do it and do it right is to obtain
> > underwriting,
> > sponsorships, and the like with advertising coming in at a close
> > second
> > or third.
> >
>
>Hey Mike,
>This is pretty much a flame.  Don't take it personally, I don't even
>know who you are.  Your email though brings up what I think is a
>really important point that I didn't want to let slide.
>
>Personally, I think that quote above tells me your looking at this
>whole thing as a means to make a buck.  In my opinion this dooms you
>to a life of producing complete and utter bullshit.  Listen, if your
>stuff hit the right demographic and was bland enough you'd be on the
>radio or TV already.  Since it's not, you must be looking to be a low
>budget imitation of bland, mindless crap.  That doesn't seem like a
>very good business plan.
>
>Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get yourselves
>on the radio or TV if that's what you want.  If, on the other hand,
>what you really want is to podcast or videoblog, I have a few places
>to start:  1. Brainstorm some good ideas about content and forget
>about good ideas for underwriting.  2. Better yet, fuck
>brainstorming, if you're creative you probably have some stuff you're
>just dying to do - do that instead.  3. Quit lurking around and just
>get started.  Then get better at it.
>
>Peace
>
>--
>Verdi
>http://michaelverdi.com
>http://freevlog.org
>http://graymattergravy.com
>





  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Questions Regarding Sponsorships, Underwriting, Ads, and Rates, etc.

[Michael Verdi]

On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:25 PM, RadioMike Perazzetti wrote:
> My colleague and I have been brainstorming podcasting ideas and we
> figure the best way to do it and do it right is to obtain  
> underwriting,
> sponsorships, and the like with advertising coming in at a close  
> second
> or third.
>

Hey Mike,
This is pretty much a flame.  Don't take it personally, I don't even  
know who you are.  Your email though brings up what I think is a  
really important point that I didn't want to let slide.

Personally, I think that quote above tells me your looking at this  
whole thing as a means to make a buck.  In my opinion this dooms you  
to a life of producing complete and utter bullshit.  Listen, if your  
stuff hit the right demographic and was bland enough you'd be on the  
radio or TV already.  Since it's not, you must be looking to be a low  
budget imitation of bland, mindless crap.  That doesn't seem like a  
very good business plan.

Here's my suggestion: you and your colleague should go get yourselves  
on the radio or TV if that's what you want.  If, on the other hand,  
what you really want is to podcast or videoblog, I have a few places  
to start:  1. Brainstorm some good ideas about content and forget  
about good ideas for underwriting.  2. Better yet, fuck  
brainstorming, if you're creative you probably have some stuff you're  
just dying to do - do that instead.  3. Quit lurking around and just  
get started.  Then get better at it.

Peace

--
Verdi
http://michaelverdi.com
http://freevlog.org
http://graymattergravy.com




  




  
  
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