Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Charles]

at a very minimum all the ones removed in the picture.
Charles


On Mar 9, 2016, at 10:00 PM, Stephen Collins  
wrote:

> Which ones should I focus on to replace, or just do them all? Not sure what 
> you mean by a/b I assume that's the power supply. Thanks for all your input!
> 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Which ones should I focus on to replace, or just do them all? Not sure what you 
mean by a/b I assume that's the power supply. Thanks for all your input!

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RE: Mac Classic boot problem

[Wesley Furr]

I found a mess under the through-hole electrolytic caps on an LC series
power supply too...was quite surprised as I'd not seen that before in other
equipment I've worked on.  I don't remember it being as liquid-looking as
your photo, but it was sure enough there...
 
Wesley
 

  _  

From: vintage-macs@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintage-macs@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Hardware Mack
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 6:32 PM
To: vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac Classic boot problem


the classic a/b, some of the time you cant even tell they are leaking until
you remove em.
(photo from 68kmla.org)  i haven't met a Classic I or Classic II A/B that
didn't really need caps

 



On Mar 9, 2016, at 6:13 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:



You don't know whether he has a load on the PSU.

On 3/9/2016 5:34 PM, Hardware Mack wrote:


sounds pretty low... on the 12v side.


and 5v side too!



can you meter those with the hd spinning?  or does the hd not even spin up.



Charles





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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[j...@cimmeri.com]

You don't know whether he has a load on the PSU.

On 3/9/2016 5:34 PM, Hardware Mack wrote:

sounds pretty low... on the 12v side.
and 5v side too!

can you meter those with the hd spinning?  or does the hd not even 
spin up.


Charles




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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[j...@cimmeri.com]

You have to check ripple as well.

On 3/9/2016 5:30 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
So it's a 4 lead connector into the drive - Red, Brown, Black, Orange. 
The Red one reads 4.88V and the Orange one reads 11.72V.


How does that sound?


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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

So it's a 4 lead connector into the drive - Red, Brown, Black, Orange. The 
Red one reads 4.88V and the Orange one reads 11.72V. 

How does that sound?


On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-6, Notgoing Totellyou wrote:
>
> yep,   Get readings for the +5 and +12
>
>
> Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
>
> MACCAPS.COM 
> 2 ROETHEL DRIVE
> SUITE D
> NOVI, MICHIGAN 48375
> UNITED STATES
>
> Thanks.
> Charles Phillips
> 248 325 8812
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
>
> Should I be able to test with a multimeter and get 12V on the drive's 
> power lead?
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 4:19:09 PM UTC-6, Notgoing Totellyou wrote:
>>
>> my guess is the 12v rail is shot... as that is the first to go because of 
>> the bad caps on the ab.
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
>>
>> MACCAPS.COM 
>> 2 ROETHEL DRIVE
>> SUITE D
>> NOVI, MICHIGAN 48375
>> UNITED STATES
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Charles Phillips
>> 248 325 8812
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
>>
>> Well good news and bad news. I successfully replaced all the capacitors 
>> and cleaned the MB thoroughly. Sure enough, it fixed the sound issue.
>>
>> Bad news is still no internal hard drive. Last week, it would 
>> occasionally recognize on startup. Now it never does. I know the drive is 
>> good because it works fine in another machine. What should I try next?
>>
>>
>> On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  
>>> wrote: 
>>> > 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the 
>>> time, but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU 
>>> drive. 2) No sound. 
>>> > 
>>> > I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will 
>>> solve? I 
>>>
>>> More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
>>> electrolyte and inspect for broken traces. 
>>>
>>> - Dylan
>>
>>
>> -- 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Hardware Mack]

yep,   Get readings for the +5 and +12


Sent from the office of MacCaps.com

MACCAPS.COM 
2 ROETHEL DRIVE
SUITE D
NOVI, MICHIGAN 48375
UNITED STATES

Thanks.
Charles Phillips
248 325 8812





On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:

> Should I be able to test with a multimeter and get 12V on the drive's power 
> lead?
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 4:19:09 PM UTC-6, Notgoing Totellyou wrote:
> my guess is the 12v rail is shot... as that is the first to go because of the 
> bad caps on the ab.
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
> 
> MACCAPS.COM 
> 2 ROETHEL DRIVE
> SUITE D
> NOVI, MICHIGAN 48375
> UNITED STATES
> 
> Thanks.
> Charles Phillips
> 248 325 8812
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
> 
>> Well good news and bad news. I successfully replaced all the capacitors and 
>> cleaned the MB thoroughly. Sure enough, it fixed the sound issue.
>> 
>> Bad news is still no internal hard drive. Last week, it would occasionally 
>> recognize on startup. Now it never does. I know the drive is good because it 
>> works fine in another machine. What should I try next?
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>> 
>> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  wrote: 
>> > 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the 
>> > time, but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU 
>> > drive. 2) No sound. 
>> > 
>> > I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will solve? 
>> > I 
>> 
>> More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
>> electrolyte and inspect for broken traces. 
>> 
>> - Dylan
>> 
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> -
>> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our 
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> 
> 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Should I be able to test with a multimeter and get 12V on the drive's power 
lead?


On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 4:19:09 PM UTC-6, Notgoing Totellyou wrote:
>
> my guess is the 12v rail is shot... as that is the first to go because of 
> the bad caps on the ab.
> Charles
>
>
>
>
> Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
>
> MACCAPS.COM 
> 2 ROETHEL DRIVE
> SUITE D
> NOVI, MICHIGAN 48375
> UNITED STATES
>
> Thanks.
> Charles Phillips
> 248 325 8812
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
>
> Well good news and bad news. I successfully replaced all the capacitors 
> and cleaned the MB thoroughly. Sure enough, it fixed the sound issue.
>
> Bad news is still no internal hard drive. Last week, it would occasionally 
> recognize on startup. Now it never does. I know the drive is good because 
> it works fine in another machine. What should I try next?
>
>
> On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  
>> wrote: 
>> > 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the 
>> time, but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU 
>> drive. 2) No sound. 
>> > 
>> > I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will 
>> solve? I 
>>
>> More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
>> electrolyte and inspect for broken traces. 
>>
>> - Dylan
>
>
> -- 
> -- 
> -
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> group.
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Hardware Mack]

my guess is the 12v rail is shot... as that is the first to go because of the 
bad caps on the ab.
Charles




Sent from the office of MacCaps.com

MACCAPS.COM 
2 ROETHEL DRIVE
SUITE D
NOVI, MICHIGAN 48375
UNITED STATES

Thanks.
Charles Phillips
248 325 8812





On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:

> Well good news and bad news. I successfully replaced all the capacitors and 
> cleaned the MB thoroughly. Sure enough, it fixed the sound issue.
> 
> Bad news is still no internal hard drive. Last week, it would occasionally 
> recognize on startup. Now it never does. I know the drive is good because it 
> works fine in another machine. What should I try next?
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  wrote: 
> > 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the time, 
> > but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU drive. 2) 
> > No sound. 
> > 
> > I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will solve? I 
> 
> More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
> electrolyte and inspect for broken traces. 
> 
> - Dylan
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> -
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Well good news and bad news. I successfully replaced all the capacitors and 
cleaned the MB thoroughly. Sure enough, it fixed the sound issue.

Bad news is still no internal hard drive. Last week, it would occasionally 
recognize on startup. Now it never does. I know the drive is good because 
it works fine in another machine. What should I try next?


On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  > wrote: 
> > 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the 
> time, but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU 
> drive. 2) No sound. 
> > 
> > I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will 
> solve? I 
>
> More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
> electrolyte and inspect for broken traces. 
>
> - Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Hardware Mack]

I use those caps alot but not that method.   There are methods to
removing SMT caps,using 2 soldering irons, using SMT hot air
station, Twist off or Wiggle off.   Some swear by hot tweezers, The
majority of the time I remove the bad caps with hot air.

On 68kmla/ThinkClassic we have always talked about ways to do things
your self, even if you don't have the proper equipment, and Twist off
is like'd by some folks,  Other folks swear by the 2 soldering iron
method.

Sometimes with some boards... they are so F'ed up... that no matter
what you do, the partially rotted pad will come off.  Doesn't happen a
lot to me... but it all depends on how nasty the boards is... Lately i
have been getting some really nasty ones in. to each is own.

Charles
MacCaps.com

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Wesley Furr  wrote:
> I understand that is the method Charles (Mr. MacCaps himself) uses with
> good success...that's how I learned it.  I've done several that way with
> no problems so far...one or two were at least medium-ugly from the leaks.
> On the other hand, I pulled a pad loose on one fighting with it trying to
> use the de-solder method.  If you don't like the grip & twist method, the
> other route I've done that works (but is still more work) is using wire
> cutters to cut them off at the base, then extract the remains...though I
> worry a bit about that because the cutting process seems to pull upwards,
> which may or may not be a problem...
>
> Wesley
>
>
> On Fri, March 4, 2016 1:08 pm, Louis Ciotti wrote:
>> Grabbing and twisting just seem like the pad will get ripped off,
>> especially on a board that is slightly damaged from a leaky cap.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Wesley Furr  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sounds good to me...but of course you're working from my play book.
>>> :-)
>>> Removing the caps like that makes me nervous, but I've not yet had a
>>> problem...and it's so much easier and faster.  Make sure you keep
>>> twisting and not pulling up after it starts coming loose...if a leg is
>>> hanging on, that could more easily cause damage to the pad than the
>>> sideways twisting...or so it seems to me anyway.
>>>
>>> Wesley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, March 4, 2016 12:10 pm, Stephen Collins wrote:
>>>
 I have inspected around the caps, and see no evidence of leakage.
 Regardless I think they are weak, and it's probably a matter of time.
 Here's the procedure I'm going with (via Wesley above).



 Capacitor replacement:
 - Grab cap with pliers, push down & twist
 - Clean area with isopropyl and q-tips
 - Add flux, remove legs with soldering iron
 - Clean again
 - Use braid to wick remaining solder on pad
 - Clean again
 - Flow solder onto 1st pad
 - Hold component in position and heat pad
 - Solder in the other side




 On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:57:24 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:


>
>
>> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Collins
>> >
>>
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I
>>  looked
> at Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help
> everyone. Fingers crossed!
>
>
>
> Just be sure to CLEAN ti well. Not only the general surface but
> clean as much crust from the pads as possible. Use a high percentage
> isopropyl or an acetone/IPA mix. I like to tin the pads, place the
> cap on top, then heat each lead until it sucks down to the pad.
>
> Here is a good picture of a leaked cap (C8) on an SE/30:
>
>
>
> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Macintosh_SE_30_%28Soldered%29_f
> iles /Media/DSC06831/DSC06831.jpg
>
>
>
> Here is a good picture of a replacement cap (C69) on an Quadra
> 840AV
>
>
>
> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Quadra_840av_files/Media/DSC0704
> 7/DS
> C07047.jpg
>
>
>
> - Dylan
>
>

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Wesley Furr]

I understand that is the method Charles (Mr. MacCaps himself) uses with
good success...that's how I learned it.  I've done several that way with
no problems so far...one or two were at least medium-ugly from the leaks. 
On the other hand, I pulled a pad loose on one fighting with it trying to
use the de-solder method.  If you don't like the grip & twist method, the
other route I've done that works (but is still more work) is using wire
cutters to cut them off at the base, then extract the remains...though I
worry a bit about that because the cutting process seems to pull upwards,
which may or may not be a problem...

Wesley


On Fri, March 4, 2016 1:08 pm, Louis Ciotti wrote:
> Grabbing and twisting just seem like the pad will get ripped off,
> especially on a board that is slightly damaged from a leaky cap.
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Wesley Furr  wrote:
>
>
>> Sounds good to me...but of course you're working from my play book.
>> :-)
>> Removing the caps like that makes me nervous, but I've not yet had a
>> problem...and it's so much easier and faster.  Make sure you keep
>> twisting and not pulling up after it starts coming loose...if a leg is
>> hanging on, that could more easily cause damage to the pad than the
>> sideways twisting...or so it seems to me anyway.
>>
>> Wesley
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, March 4, 2016 12:10 pm, Stephen Collins wrote:
>>
>>> I have inspected around the caps, and see no evidence of leakage.
>>> Regardless I think they are weak, and it's probably a matter of time.
>>> Here's the procedure I'm going with (via Wesley above).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Capacitor replacement:
>>> - Grab cap with pliers, push down & twist
>>> - Clean area with isopropyl and q-tips
>>> - Add flux, remove legs with soldering iron
>>> - Clean again
>>> - Use braid to wick remaining solder on pad
>>> - Clean again
>>> - Flow solder onto 1st pad
>>> - Hold component in position and heat pad
>>> - Solder in the other side
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:57:24 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>>>
>>>


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Collins
> 
>
 > wrote:


>
> Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I
>  looked
 at Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help
 everyone. Fingers crossed!



 Just be sure to CLEAN ti well. Not only the general surface but
 clean as much crust from the pads as possible. Use a high percentage
 isopropyl or an acetone/IPA mix. I like to tin the pads, place the
 cap on top, then heat each lead until it sucks down to the pad.

 Here is a good picture of a leaked cap (C8) on an SE/30:



 http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Macintosh_SE_30_%28Soldered%29_f
 iles /Media/DSC06831/DSC06831.jpg



 Here is a good picture of a replacement cap (C69) on an Quadra
 840AV



 http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Quadra_840av_files/Media/DSC0704
 7/DS
 C07047.jpg



 - Dylan


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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 4, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Louis Ciotti  wrote:
> 
> Grabbing and twisting just seem like the pad will get ripped off, especially 
> on a board that is slightly damaged from a leaky cap.

You would think so but the downward pressure really helps to avoid this. I was 
dubious at first but in the long run, I’ve had better luck with the 
press-n-twist method than the cut-and-pull method. And if the pad’s been leaked 
on and corroded, I don’t even entertain the thought of using the two pencil 
method.

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Louis Ciotti]

Grabbing and twisting just seem like the pad will get ripped off,
especially on a board that is slightly damaged from a leaky cap.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Wesley Furr  wrote:

> Sounds good to me...but of course you're working from my play book.  :-)
> Removing the caps like that makes me nervous, but I've not yet had a
> problem...and it's so much easier and faster.  Make sure you keep twisting
> and not pulling up after it starts coming loose...if a leg is hanging on,
> that could more easily cause damage to the pad than the sideways
> twisting...or so it seems to me anyway.
>
> Wesley
>
>
> On Fri, March 4, 2016 12:10 pm, Stephen Collins wrote:
> > I have inspected around the caps, and see no evidence of leakage.
> > Regardless I think they are weak, and it's probably a matter of time.
> > Here's the procedure I'm going with (via Wesley above).
> >
> >
> > Capacitor replacement:
> > - Grab cap with pliers, push down & twist
> > - Clean area with isopropyl and q-tips
> > - Add flux, remove legs with soldering iron
> > - Clean again
> > - Use braid to wick remaining solder on pad
> > - Clean again
> > - Flow solder onto 1st pad
> > - Hold component in position and heat pad
> > - Solder in the other side
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:57:24 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Collins  >>>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I
> >>> looked
> >> at Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help everyone.
> >>  Fingers crossed!
> >>
> >>
> >> Just be sure to CLEAN ti well. Not only the general surface but clean
> >> as much crust from the pads as possible. Use a high percentage isopropyl
> >> or an acetone/IPA mix. I like to tin the pads, place the cap on top,
> >> then heat each lead until it sucks down to the pad.
> >>
> >> Here is a good picture of a leaked cap (C8) on an SE/30:
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Macintosh_SE_30_%28Soldered%29_files
> >> /Media/DSC06831/DSC06831.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >> Here is a good picture of a replacement cap (C69) on an Quadra 840AV
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Quadra_840av_files/Media/DSC07047/DS
> >> C07047.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >> - Dylan
> >>
> >
> > --
> > --
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> > group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml
> and
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Wesley Furr]

Sounds good to me...but of course you're working from my play book.  :-) 
Removing the caps like that makes me nervous, but I've not yet had a
problem...and it's so much easier and faster.  Make sure you keep twisting
and not pulling up after it starts coming loose...if a leg is hanging on,
that could more easily cause damage to the pad than the sideways
twisting...or so it seems to me anyway.

Wesley


On Fri, March 4, 2016 12:10 pm, Stephen Collins wrote:
> I have inspected around the caps, and see no evidence of leakage.
> Regardless I think they are weak, and it's probably a matter of time.
> Here's the procedure I'm going with (via Wesley above).
>
>
> Capacitor replacement:
> - Grab cap with pliers, push down & twist
> - Clean area with isopropyl and q-tips
> - Add flux, remove legs with soldering iron
> - Clean again
> - Use braid to wick remaining solder on pad
> - Clean again
> - Flow solder onto 1st pad
> - Hold component in position and heat pad
> - Solder in the other side
>
>
>
> On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:57:24 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Collins >>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I
>>> looked
>> at Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help everyone.
>>  Fingers crossed!
>>
>>
>> Just be sure to CLEAN ti well. Not only the general surface but clean
>> as much crust from the pads as possible. Use a high percentage isopropyl
>> or an acetone/IPA mix. I like to tin the pads, place the cap on top,
>> then heat each lead until it sucks down to the pad.
>>
>> Here is a good picture of a leaked cap (C8) on an SE/30:
>>
>>
>> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Macintosh_SE_30_%28Soldered%29_files
>> /Media/DSC06831/DSC06831.jpg
>>
>>
>> Here is a good picture of a replacement cap (C69) on an Quadra 840AV
>>
>>
>> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Quadra_840av_files/Media/DSC07047/DS
>> C07047.jpg
>>
>>
>> - Dylan
>>
>
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 4, 2016, at 9:10 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> I have inspected around the caps, and see no evidence of leakage. Regardless 
> I think they are weak, and it's probably a matter of time. Here's the 
> procedure I'm going with (via Wesley above).
> 
> Capacitor replacement:
> - Grab cap with pliers, push down & twist
> - Clean area with isopropyl and q-tips
> - Add flux, remove legs with soldering iron
> - Clean again
> - Use braid to wick remaining solder on pad
> - Clean again
> - Flow solder onto 1st pad
> - Hold component in position and heat pad
> - Solder in the other side

Sounds perfect.

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

I have inspected around the caps, and see no evidence of leakage. 
Regardless I think they are weak, and it's probably a matter of time. 
Here's the procedure I'm going with (via Wesley above).

Capacitor replacement: 
- Grab cap with pliers, push down & twist 
- Clean area with isopropyl and q-tips 
- Add flux, remove legs with soldering iron 
- Clean again 
- Use braid to wick remaining solder on pad 
- Clean again
- Flow solder onto 1st pad 
- Hold component in position and heat pad
- Solder in the other side 


On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:57:24 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Collins  > wrote: 
> > 
> > Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I looked 
> at Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help everyone. 
> Fingers crossed! 
>
> Just be sure to CLEAN ti well. Not only the general surface but clean as 
> much crust from the pads as possible. Use a high percentage isopropyl or an 
> acetone/IPA mix. I like to tin the pads, place the cap on top, then heat 
> each lead until it sucks down to the pad. 
>
> Here is a good picture of a leaked cap (C8) on an SE/30: 
>
> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Macintosh_SE_30_%28Soldered%29_files/Media/DSC06831/DSC06831.jpg
>  
>
> Here is a good picture of a replacement cap (C69) on an Quadra 840AV 
>
> http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Quadra_840av_files/Media/DSC07047/DSC07047.jpg
>  
>
> - Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I looked at 
> Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help everyone. Fingers 
> crossed!

Just be sure to CLEAN ti well. Not only the general surface but clean as much 
crust from the pads as possible. Use a high percentage isopropyl or an 
acetone/IPA mix. I like to tin the pads, place the cap on top, then heat each 
lead until it sucks down to the pad.

Here is a good picture of a leaked cap (C8) on an SE/30:
http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Macintosh_SE_30_%28Soldered%29_files/Media/DSC06831/DSC06831.jpg

Here is a good picture of a replacement cap (C69) on an Quadra 840AV
http://www.applefool.com/applefool/Quadra_840av_files/Media/DSC07047/DSC07047.jpg

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Ok will do. Not as nervous about the surface mount repair since I looked at 
Dave Jones' EEVlog video on the topic. Thanks for the help everyone. 
Fingers crossed!


On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  > wrote: 
> > 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the 
> time, but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU 
> drive. 2) No sound. 
> > 
> > I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will 
> solve? I 
>
> More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
> electrolyte and inspect for broken traces. 
>
> - Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 1) As described above, the internal hard drive is missing most of the time, 
> but will occasionally appear on bootup alongside the Floppy EMU drive. 2) No 
> sound.
> 
> I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will solve? I

More than likely. Be sure to wash the board well to remove any dried 
electrolyte and inspect for broken traces.

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Update:

I recently acquired a Floppy EMU from Steve Chamberlain over at 
http://www.bigmessowires.com. I connected it in hard drive mode on the 
DB-19 port. The machine runs System 6, apps and games flawlessly in this 
configuration with two exceptions: 1) As described above, the internal hard 
drive is missing most of the time, but will occasionally appear on bootup 
alongside the Floppy EMU drive. 2) No sound.

I ask again, does this still sound like an issue that a recap will solve? I 
have pulled and tested the drive with SpinRite. It tested fine and the 
connectors look ok. I received my caps from digikey today, just thought I 
would run it be here one last time.

Thanks!


On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-6, Jon Kettenhofen wrote:
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Not having hands-on, there are a number of possibilities and solutions.
>
> Can you boot from a floppy drive?  Have any floppy tools?  If you can put 
> your hands on an old FWB tools floppy set or some other floppy diagnostic 
> set, that would be a big help.
>
> After completing this email, I realized there are several possibilities 
> but the first thing you might look at is whether or not you formatted the 
> drive or in some way disturbed the boot sector.  Second, it is possible you 
> are seeing a gradual failure of the power supply due to old capacitors.  
>
> **
>
> Do what we call re-seating the connections.   It's possible that the 
> connectors have acquired some corrosion.  This goes for any cards or 
> sub-assemblies commonly found in older computers. Unplugging and 
> re-plugging each (all) connector (one at a time to avoid confusion) will 
> sometimes fix a connection problem.  Sometimes - but not always - seemingly 
> innocuous acts will make a problem disappear.  
>
> More subtle problems can occur if there is any visible corrosion on the 
> circuit boards.  Also, vibrations during shipping can cause weak (aka 
> "cold") solder joints to have invisible open circuits (i.e. broken 
> connections).  Re-soldering a bad joint will fix the bad connection but the 
> trick is to spot the bad joint - a loupe or being severely near-sighted 
> will help, but having experience with cold solder joints is better.
>
> Let's hope it's not a bad circuit board or part.  Some early computers had 
> poor quality capacitors in them.
>
> Finally, it could be that you failed to secure the hard drive connectors 
> properly and one of the connectors is loose.
>  
> Hope that helps.
>
> On 03/02/2016 12:00 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm new to the vintage Mac scene and have a Mac Classic here with an 
> internal Quantum 40MB hard drive and 4MB of memory. When I first got it, 
> everything booted and ran fine. It came with 6.0.7. Over about a week, I 
> noticed apps and even the Finder crashing. It got progressively worse until 
> I started getting the "disk with question mark" image on startup.
>
> So far, I have removed the drive and run SpinRite (from grc.com) on level 
> 2 and level 4. Everything passed 100%, no errors. I have booted from 
> internal ROM by holding CMD-OPT-O-X and sometimes the hard drive appears 
> and other times it does not.
>
> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, 
> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?
>
> Thanks!
> -- 
> -- 
> -
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs 
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our 
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to vintag...@googlegroups.com 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Charles]

yeah i had a Mac II that was really getting to me once.
I checked all the traces, changed all the caps.  installed good working ram 
simms.
i didn’t think to pop the rom’s out and back in again, the rom i/c legs were 
defiantly tarnished.  
and then tried it and it worked fine.


On Mar 3, 2016, at 11:17 AM, coverturtle  wrote:

> Hi Stephen,
> 
> Not having hands-on, there are a number of possibilities and solutions.
> 
> Can you boot from a floppy drive?  Have any floppy tools?  If you can put 
> your hands on an old FWB tools floppy set or some other floppy diagnostic 
> set, that would be a big help.
> 
> After completing this email, I realized there are several possibilities but 
> the first thing you might look at is whether or not you formatted the drive 
> or in some way disturbed the boot sector.  Second, it is possible you are 
> seeing a gradual failure of the power supply due to old capacitors.  
> 
> **
> 
> Do what we call re-seating the connections.   It's possible that the 
> connectors have acquired some corrosion.  This goes for any cards or 
> sub-assemblies commonly found in older computers. Unplugging and re-plugging 
> each (all) connector (one at a time to avoid confusion) will sometimes fix a 
> connection problem.  Sometimes - but not always - seemingly innocuous acts 
> will make a problem disappear.  
> 
> More subtle problems can occur if there is any visible corrosion on the 
> circuit boards.  Also, vibrations during shipping can cause weak (aka "cold") 
> solder joints to have invisible open circuits (i.e. broken connections).  
> Re-soldering a bad joint will fix the bad connection but the trick is to spot 
> the bad joint - a loupe or being severely near-sighted will help, but having 
> experience with cold solder joints is better.
> 
> Let's hope it's not a bad circuit board or part.  Some early computers had 
> poor quality capacitors in them.
> 
> Finally, it could be that you failed to secure the hard drive connectors 
> properly and one of the connectors is loose.
>  
> Hope that helps.
> 
> On 03/02/2016 12:00 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I'm new to the vintage Mac scene and have a Mac Classic here with an 
>> internal Quantum 40MB hard drive and 4MB of memory. When I first got it, 
>> everything booted and ran fine. It came with 6.0.7. Over about a week, I 
>> noticed apps and even the Finder crashing. It got progressively worse until 
>> I started getting the "disk with question mark" image on startup.
>> 
>> So far, I have removed the drive and run SpinRite (from grc.com) on level 2 
>> and level 4. Everything passed 100%, no errors. I have booted from internal 
>> ROM by holding CMD-OPT-O-X and sometimes the hard drive appears and other 
>> times it does not.
>> 
>> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, but 
>> so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> -
>> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our 
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>> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
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> 
> 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[coverturtle]

Hi Stephen,

Not having hands-on, there are a number of possibilities and solutions.

Can you boot from a floppy drive?  Have any floppy tools?  If you can 
put your hands on an old FWB tools floppy set or some other floppy 
diagnostic set, that would be a big help.


After completing this email, I realized there are several possibilities 
but the first thing you might look at is whether or not you formatted 
the drive or in some way disturbed the boot sector.  Second, it is 
possible you are seeing a gradual failure of the power supply due to old 
capacitors.


**

Do what we call re-seating the connections.   It's possible that the 
connectors have acquired some corrosion.  This goes for any cards or 
sub-assemblies commonly found in older computers. Unplugging and 
re-plugging each (all) connector (one at a time to avoid confusion) will 
sometimes fix a connection problem. Sometimes - but not always - 
seemingly innocuous acts will make a problem disappear.


More subtle problems can occur if there is any visible corrosion on the 
circuit boards.  Also, vibrations during shipping can cause weak (aka 
"cold") solder joints to have invisible open circuits (i.e. broken 
connections).  Re-soldering a bad joint will fix the bad connection but 
the trick is to spot the bad joint - a loupe or being severely 
near-sighted will help, but having experience with cold solder joints is 
better.


Let's hope it's not a bad circuit board or part.  Some early computers 
had poor quality capacitors in them.


Finally, it could be that you failed to secure the hard drive connectors 
properly and one of the connectors is loose.


Hope that helps.

On 03/02/2016 12:00 PM, Stephen Collins wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the vintage Mac scene and have a Mac Classic here with an 
internal Quantum 40MB hard drive and 4MB of memory. When I first got 
it, everything booted and ran fine. It came with 6.0.7. Over about a 
week, I noticed apps and even the Finder crashing. It got 
progressively worse until I started getting the "disk with question 
mark" image on startup.


So far, I have removed the drive and run SpinRite (from grc.com) on 
level 2 and level 4. Everything passed 100%, no errors. I have booted 
from internal ROM by holding CMD-OPT-O-X and sometimes the hard drive 
appears and other times it does not.


I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed 
air, but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?


Thanks!
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RE: Mac Classic boot problem

[Wesley Furr]

Also, if anyone is interested, I've got some electrolytics SMD caps here
I'll make you a good deal on.  I bought them and struggled with installing
them, then went for the MLCC's and never looked back.  I'd have to look to
see what I have, but they would all be 1/10/47/100uf's.  One of those values
I somehow ended up with ones that were physically too large...so those are
probably worthless to anyone here...
 
Thanks,
 
Wesley
 

  _  

From: vintage-macs@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintage-macs@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Wesley Furr
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 7:11 AM
To: vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mac Classic boot problem


Here are part #'s and links to same on mouser.com that I bought for the
couple LC's I re-worked.  Not sure which of those are used in the
Classic...be sure ratings and voltages match before ordering.  What I would
suggest is going to mouser.com (or wherever you prefer) and searching for
the capacitance and voltage, such as "6.3v 100uf" for example.  Then filter
down...select Capacitors, then MLCC's, then SMD/SMT, then sort by pricing to
find the cheapest option (cheapest one with minimum purchase quantity of
one).  Something to consider is case size, here's a good reference:
 
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Capacitors_Size.html
 
Width doesn't matter quite so much as length, though I think any of them
will be long enough to pretty much touch the pads on either side.  For
example, here's the first one on my list:
 
80-C1210C107M9P 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1210C107M9PACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQHfJxnYD9SALBQq9sfXwQCA%3d
 
When I went back through and searched for the same as described above, I
came up with a 1206 (slightly narrower package) with a Murata brand name for
$0.55 vs. the $0.94 of the one I previously purchased.  Prices on these
things are always changing, so I would suggest going through and searching
for yourself rather than blindly buying what I bought...but that's your
call.  :-)  If you have more machines to re-cap more machines, you may want
to search ebay...I picked up some from there - I think 100uf and 47uf's, and
they were a good bit cheaper...at the time at least.  I think the 10uf's
were cheap enough in quantity that I went ahead and bought 100 from Mouser.
Anyway, I'll list the other three sizes as I previously bought and leave you
to it...let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to help further.
 
80-C1210C476M4P
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1210C476M4PACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQDwCBfu%2fbu6OAceCbaedIIw%3d
 
80-C1206C106K4P
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1206C106K4PACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQF9UlR6G5k34707VIeRqfBw%3d
 
80-C1206C105K5R
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1206C105K5RACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQKLP9quIYhdRZscoGk%2f4rK8%3d
 
Thanks,
 
Wesley
 

  _  

From: vintage-macs@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintage-macs@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen Collins
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 5:30 PM
To: Vintage Macs
Subject: Re: Mac Classic boot problem


Do you have a link for the capacitor? I'm new to surface mount soldering.
Thanks!

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 2:41:46 PM UTC-6, Wesley wrote: 

Here's a post I made elsewhere about my method of doing it: 

http://www.vintage-computer.
<http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap
=400201=#post400201>
com/vcforum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap=400201=#post400201


If the link doesn't work, let me know and I can just re-post it here. 

As noted there, I'm a huge fan of the MLCC capacitors - they seem to be 
much easier to work with soldering them into place, and they should last a 
LONG time...and even if they don't, they won't leak!  :-) 

Wesley 



On Wed, March 2, 2016 1:04 pm, Stephen Collins wrote: 
> Hmm, I was afraid that would be the recommendation. I'm comfortable with 
> soldering through-hole mounted stuff but everything (except cpu) here is 
> surface mounted. Any links to a guide on this? 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:36:17 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins <stephen@gmail.com 
>>> 
>> > wrote: 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed 
>>> air, 
>> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next? 
>> 
>> Recap the logic board. If it's never had the capacitors replaced, it 
>> needs it. No question. 
>> 
>> - Dylan 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> - 
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs 
> group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/
<http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml> vintagemacs.shtml and 
> our netiquette guide is at 
> http://www.lowendmac.com/
<http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtm

RE: Mac Classic boot problem

[Wesley Furr]

Here are part #'s and links to same on mouser.com that I bought for the
couple LC's I re-worked.  Not sure which of those are used in the
Classic...be sure ratings and voltages match before ordering.  What I would
suggest is going to mouser.com (or wherever you prefer) and searching for
the capacitance and voltage, such as "6.3v 100uf" for example.  Then filter
down...select Capacitors, then MLCC's, then SMD/SMT, then sort by pricing to
find the cheapest option (cheapest one with minimum purchase quantity of
one).  Something to consider is case size, here's a good reference:
 
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Capacitors_Size.html
 
Width doesn't matter quite so much as length, though I think any of them
will be long enough to pretty much touch the pads on either side.  For
example, here's the first one on my list:
 
80-C1210C107M9P 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1210C107M9PACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQHfJxnYD9SALBQq9sfXwQCA%3d
 
When I went back through and searched for the same as described above, I
came up with a 1206 (slightly narrower package) with a Murata brand name for
$0.55 vs. the $0.94 of the one I previously purchased.  Prices on these
things are always changing, so I would suggest going through and searching
for yourself rather than blindly buying what I bought...but that's your
call.  :-)  If you have more machines to re-cap more machines, you may want
to search ebay...I picked up some from there - I think 100uf and 47uf's, and
they were a good bit cheaper...at the time at least.  I think the 10uf's
were cheap enough in quantity that I went ahead and bought 100 from Mouser.
Anyway, I'll list the other three sizes as I previously bought and leave you
to it...let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to help further.
 
80-C1210C476M4P
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1210C476M4PACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQDwCBfu%2fbu6OAceCbaedIIw%3d
 
80-C1206C106K4P
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1206C106K4PACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQF9UlR6G5k34707VIeRqfBw%3d
 
80-C1206C105K5R
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C1206C105K5RACTU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0A
nBnWHyRQKLP9quIYhdRZscoGk%2f4rK8%3d
 
Thanks,
 
Wesley
 

  _  

From: vintage-macs@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintage-macs@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen Collins
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 5:30 PM
To: Vintage Macs
Subject: Re: Mac Classic boot problem


Do you have a link for the capacitor? I'm new to surface mount soldering.
Thanks!

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 2:41:46 PM UTC-6, Wesley wrote: 

Here's a post I made elsewhere about my method of doing it: 

http://www.vintage-computer.
<http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap
=400201=#post400201>
com/vcforum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap=400201=#post400201


If the link doesn't work, let me know and I can just re-post it here. 

As noted there, I'm a huge fan of the MLCC capacitors - they seem to be 
much easier to work with soldering them into place, and they should last a 
LONG time...and even if they don't, they won't leak!  :-) 

Wesley 



On Wed, March 2, 2016 1:04 pm, Stephen Collins wrote: 
> Hmm, I was afraid that would be the recommendation. I'm comfortable with 
> soldering through-hole mounted stuff but everything (except cpu) here is 
> surface mounted. Any links to a guide on this? 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:36:17 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins <stephen@gmail.com 
>>> 
>> > wrote: 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed 
>>> air, 
>> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next? 
>> 
>> Recap the logic board. If it's never had the capacitors replaced, it 
>> needs it. No question. 
>> 
>> - Dylan 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> - 
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs 
> group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/
<http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml> vintagemacs.shtml and 
> our netiquette guide is at 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Do you have a link for the capacitor? I'm new to surface mount soldering. 
Thanks!

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 2:41:46 PM UTC-6, Wesley wrote:
>
> Here's a post I made elsewhere about my method of doing it: 
>
>
> http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap=400201=#post400201
>  
>
> If the link doesn't work, let me know and I can just re-post it here. 
>
> As noted there, I'm a huge fan of the MLCC capacitors - they seem to be 
> much easier to work with soldering them into place, and they should last a 
> LONG time...and even if they don't, they won't leak!  :-) 
>
> Wesley 
>
>
>
> On Wed, March 2, 2016 1:04 pm, Stephen Collins wrote: 
> > Hmm, I was afraid that would be the recommendation. I'm comfortable with 
> > soldering through-hole mounted stuff but everything (except cpu) here is 
> > surface mounted. Any links to a guide on this? 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:36:17 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote: 
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins  >>> 
> >> > wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed 
> >>> air, 
> >> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next? 
> >> 
> >> Recap the logic board. If it’s never had the capacitors replaced, it 
> >> needs it. No question. 
> >> 
> >> - Dylan 
> >> 
> > 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Wesley Furr]

Here's a post I made elsewhere about my method of doing it:

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?50961-SE-30-Re-cap=400201=#post400201

If the link doesn't work, let me know and I can just re-post it here.

As noted there, I'm a huge fan of the MLCC capacitors - they seem to be
much easier to work with soldering them into place, and they should last a
LONG time...and even if they don't, they won't leak!  :-)

Wesley



On Wed, March 2, 2016 1:04 pm, Stephen Collins wrote:
> Hmm, I was afraid that would be the recommendation. I'm comfortable with
> soldering through-hole mounted stuff but everything (except cpu) here is
> surface mounted. Any links to a guide on this?
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:36:17 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins >>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed
>>> air,
>> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?
>>
>> Recap the logic board. If it’s never had the capacitors replaced, it
>> needs it. No question.
>>
>> - Dylan
>>
>
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 2, 2016, at 11:34 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
> 
> D, have you ever experimented with using non-SMD replacements?   I think 
> that's how I'd try to go as I've found SMD can caps to be unreliable and very 
> short lived compared to leaded types.

I like originality, so I usually do replacement electrolytics. Modern 
electrolytes should outlast me.

If you care about aesthetics and don’t want electrolyte, take a look at organic 
polymers. You can get them in a similar style metal can package and have no 
liquid.

If you don’t care about aesthetics and don’t want electrolyte, chip-style 
tantalums can be used (Apple originally used these in the higher end machines 
like the IIfx).

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 3/2/2016 2:20 PM, Dylan McDermond wrote:

On Mar 2, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Stephen Collins  
wrote:

Can you help me choose the correct replacement caps? I assume Aluminum 47uf, 
16V, Surface Mount. What else should I specify? Size? I am looking on 
digikey.com.

Here is what I’ve used for the Classic logic board:

47uf/16v:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/EEE-1CA470SP/PCE3889CT-ND/766265

1uf/50v:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/EEE-HB1H1R0AR/PCE4760CT-ND/1718183

- Dylan



D, have you ever experimented with using non-SMD replacements?   I think 
that's how I'd try to go as I've found SMD can caps to be unreliable and 
very short lived compared to leaded types.


- J.

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 2, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> Can you help me choose the correct replacement caps? I assume Aluminum 47uf, 
> 16V, Surface Mount. What else should I specify? Size? I am looking on 
> digikey.com.

Here is what I’ve used for the Classic logic board:

47uf/16v:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/EEE-1CA470SP/PCE3889CT-ND/766265

1uf/50v:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/EEE-HB1H1R0AR/PCE4760CT-ND/1718183

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Can you help me choose the correct replacement caps? I assume Aluminum 
47uf, 16V, Surface Mount. What else should I specify? Size? I am looking on 
digikey.com.


On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 12:01:55 PM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:56 AM, Stephen Collins  > wrote: 
> > 
> > This is a Classic, so almost everything is surface mounted. I cleaned 
> the board with QD Electronic Cleaner just to see, but that did not help. 
>
> Correct. Those metal-cased aluminum electrolytic leak all over the place. 
> At the least, they lose capacitance. At worst, they take out traces with 
> electrolyte. I order 47uf surface mount aluminum electrolytics by the 
> hundreds. 
>
> - Dylan 
>
>

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Brian Marstella]

One thing I did to get better with my "standard" soldering equipment on smd 
stuff was to order some cheap boards from eBay and then use YouTube videos. 
You have to look out as some of the videos are pretty bad, but if you've 
soldered much, you can tell who has a decent technique that works and who 
is horrible. I think Dave from EEVlog has a tutorial vid on smd soldering. 
IIRC, I bought about 10 boards and an assortment of components for about 
$25; they weren't good for anything other than practice which was the 
reason things were so cheap. However, it kept me from damaging good boards.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 1:04:42 PM UTC-5, Stephen Collins wrote:
>
> Hmm, I was afraid that would be the recommendation. I'm comfortable with 
> soldering through-hole mounted stuff but everything (except cpu) here is 
> surface mounted. Any links to a guide on this?
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:36:17 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins  
>> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, 
>> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next? 
>>
>> Recap the logic board. If it’s never had the capacitors replaced, it 
>> needs it. No question. 
>>
>> - Dylan
>
>

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Hmm, I was afraid that would be the recommendation. I'm comfortable with 
soldering through-hole mounted stuff but everything (except cpu) here is 
surface mounted. Any links to a guide on this?


On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:36:17 AM UTC-6, Dylan McDermond wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins  > wrote: 
> > 
> > I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, 
> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next? 
>
> Recap the logic board. If it’s never had the capacitors replaced, it needs 
> it. No question. 
>
> - Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:56 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> This is a Classic, so almost everything is surface mounted. I cleaned the 
> board with QD Electronic Cleaner just to see, but that did not help.

Correct. Those metal-cased aluminum electrolytic leak all over the place. At 
the least, they lose capacitance. At worst, they take out traces with 
electrolyte. I order 47uf surface mount aluminum electrolytics by the hundreds.

- Dylan

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 2 Mar, 2016, at 19:56, Stephen Collins  wrote:
> 
> This is a Classic, so almost everything is surface mounted. I cleaned the 
> board with QD Electronic Cleaner just to see, but that did not help.

Then it’s the capacitors.  You’ll need to find someone really good at soldering.

 - Jonathan Morton

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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

This is a Classic, so almost everything is surface mounted. I cleaned the 
board with QD Electronic Cleaner just to see, but that did not help.


On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 11:42:16 AM UTC-6, Clark Martin wrote:
>
> Unplug and reseat the connections to the logicboard, especially the RAM. 
> The connections build up corrosion over time, replugging them cleans the 
> contacts. 
>
> Sent from an iPhone, don't ask whose.
>
> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins  > wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm new to the vintage Mac scene and have a Mac Classic here with an 
> internal Quantum 40MB hard drive and 4MB of memory. When I first got it, 
> everything booted and ran fine. It came with 6.0.7. Over about a week, I 
> noticed apps and even the Finder crashing. It got progressively worse until 
> I started getting the "disk with question mark" image on startup.
>
> So far, I have removed the drive and run SpinRite (from grc.com) on level 
> 2 and level 4. Everything passed 100%, no errors. I have booted from 
> internal ROM by holding CMD-OPT-O-X and sometimes the hard drive appears 
> and other times it does not.
>
> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, 
> but so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?
>
> Thanks!
>
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Clark Martin]

Unplug and reseat the connections to the logicboard, especially the RAM. The 
connections build up corrosion over time, replugging them cleans the contacts. 

Sent from an iPhone, don't ask whose.

> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm new to the vintage Mac scene and have a Mac Classic here with an internal 
> Quantum 40MB hard drive and 4MB of memory. When I first got it, everything 
> booted and ran fine. It came with 6.0.7. Over about a week, I noticed apps 
> and even the Finder crashing. It got progressively worse until I started 
> getting the "disk with question mark" image on startup.
> 
> So far, I have removed the drive and run SpinRite (from grc.com) on level 2 
> and level 4. Everything passed 100%, no errors. I have booted from internal 
> ROM by holding CMD-OPT-O-X and sometimes the hard drive appears and other 
> times it does not.
> 
> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, but 
> so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?
> 
> Thanks!
> -- 
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Re: Mac Classic boot problem

[Dylan McDermond]

> On Mar 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Stephen Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, but 
> so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?

Recap the logic board. If it’s never had the capacitors replaced, it needs it. 
No question.

- Dylan

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Mac Classic boot problem

[Stephen Collins]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the vintage Mac scene and have a Mac Classic here with an 
internal Quantum 40MB hard drive and 4MB of memory. When I first got it, 
everything booted and ran fine. It came with 6.0.7. Over about a week, I 
noticed apps and even the Finder crashing. It got progressively worse until 
I started getting the "disk with question mark" image on startup.

So far, I have removed the drive and run SpinRite (from grc.com) on level 2 
and level 4. Everything passed 100%, no errors. I have booted from internal 
ROM by holding CMD-OPT-O-X and sometimes the hard drive appears and other 
times it does not.

I cleaned the internals and system board using a can of compressed air, but 
so far no water or chemicals. What should I do next?

Thanks!

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