Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
In the many years I've been read or replying to this group's e-mails, this's the first time anybody has made a stink like this. While I understand the reason why, I also see no reason for the why. It's like this kid I knew in high school: his pet peeve was the sound silverware makes when hitting teeth during the course of eating a meal. He would BMW about it to no end, and I finally told him that, in reality, silverware will hit teeth when people eat, so live with it. Same thing here. I mean, just all of sudden, out a blue, somebody decides to complain about something nobody else has been seeing (at least, to me, as to when the e-mail was all of sudden hi-jacked from somebody else's Mac problem). So, again, while I understand the reason why, I also see no reason for the why. On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Jim Howard jasphow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, new to the group, joined to solve a very specific problem. No idea if any of what Todd and Derek are saying is addressed to me. If so, I don't understand it and wouldn't know bottom-posting from top-fermenting. If not, sorry again. Top-posting is bad; top-fermenting is good--lager may be smoother, but loses so much flavor, so stick to ale. -- The Hawkins Law Firm Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 hawkinslawf...@gmail.com 3025 S. Maryland Parkway Las Vegas, NV 89109 -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- Tyrone L. Warbasse, http://www.totallyparanoia.com/ http://www.myspace.com/coffee4binky/ ¿Qué es mi primer nombre? ¡'Jódale'! ¡Eso es mi primer nombre! Twitter: coffee4binky AOL/AIM: detectiveragga Yahoo! Chat: thematrixreformatted YouTube: coffee4binky Also, find me on Facebook! -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
On Jul 24, 5:42 pm, Joshua Juran jju...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 24, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Jeff Walther wrote: By the way, see the message above? See how the quoted text is trimmed? See how there's no sign of the list footer quoted? See how the thread of the message flows downward in the order that people read? This is how to post a readable message. Your top posted messages in which ** YOU FAIL TO TRIM ANY QUOTED TEXT AT ALL** are rude and inconsiderate to other members of the list. Maybe you should be blaming the software vendors whose mail clients invite users to post this way by positioning the cursor *above* the quoted reply, They certainly popularized and contributed to the problem, but people have the ability with a tiny bit of effort to be considerate. I don't like top-posting either, My main point, which others seem to miss, was the excess quoted text. He quoted everything including the list footer. I only mentioned the top posting because that typically leads to the incredibly inconsiderate practice of quoting without trimming. but your response was inappropriate. You may be right. I was certain that Britt had been told about this before, but perhaps I was mistaken and this was the first time. If so, I apologize. I should have sent a private message instead. I've been reading this list for a long time and notice that every single one of his messages always contains all the text from any previous messages. Apparently, I reached some tipping point, but you're right, I should have acted more reservedly if that was indeed the first time. Flaming people for being ignorant was something you could get away with a couple decades ago On LEMlists there is no ignorance excuse. The guidelines you agree that you have read when you sign up clearly instruct folks to trim quoted text. If you really want people to stop top-posting, get Google, Apple, and whoever else to fix their email clients. As long as there are folks who consider it their right to be inconsiderate, that will be a lost battle. The clients contribute, but the apologists who try to justify not taking a moment to make their messages readable are the real problem. Jeff Walther -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Walther t...@prismnet.com wrote: On Jul 24, 5:42 pm, Joshua Juran jju...@gmail.com wrote: If you really want people to stop top-posting, get Google, Apple, and whoever else to fix their email clients. As long as there are folks who consider it their right to be inconsiderate, that will be a lost battle. The clients contribute, but the apologists who try to justify not taking a moment to make their messages readable are the real problem. It is conceivable that someone who uses gmail exclusively through the web client is unaware that other email clients do not auto-hide quoted text... the defaults for the web gmail will look considerate enough for other web gmail users, with gmail replacing all quoted text in a top-posted reply with Show quote text hyperlink which will auto-expand into the full quoted text but suppress it's display by default. Gmail has been around for 7 years at this point, so maybe there are people who know nothing else... ? (Disclosure: I grew up on the internet in the early '90s, spent quite some time on Usenet, and picked up 'good' nettique there... but I have a feeling there are more 'new timers' than 'old timers' now...) - Nate -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Jeff Walther t...@prismnet.com wrote: On Jul 24, 5:42 pm, Joshua Juran jju...@gmail.com wrote: If you really want people to stop top-posting, get Google, Apple, and whoever else to fix their email clients. As long as there are folks who consider it their right to be inconsiderate, that will be a lost battle. The clients contribute, but the apologists who try to justify not taking a moment to make their messages readable are the real problem. I was a very early gmail user, long, long before it was released, while invitations came five at a time, at most. I filed the bug for positioning for topposting. The bug was acknowledged, but, obviously, never fixed :( -- Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
I was a very early gmail user, long, long before it was released, while invitations came five at a time, at most. I filed the bug for positioning for topposting. The bug was acknowledged, but, obviously, never fixed :( -- Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. I am also a long-time Gmail user too. Now that I know what the rules are and how the replies go, Its really not that difficult to make those changes. This was the first notice I got from this list about top-posting, and I've made the proper corrections. Rules are rules, and i'm able to make do with gmail. The point was made in a rather obscure way, but I've resolved my mistakes. - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
Let's be clear... There is no LEM netiquette rule requiring (or even suggesting) bottom posting. There have been numerous discussions on the subject the result of which is that it is up to the individual to decide which method to use. As one who even did a little messaging from Argonne (East) to Argonne (West) back in the early 80's... I certainly understand the pros and cons of them both and utilize the method which seems to fit the need of the moment (typically top posting if it is a single reply message, inline bottom posting if there are multiple points with discrete answers). That said... You do need to do some trimming when replying to a message (pay attention to the little footer which is added automatically to every message). Quoting LEM netiquette: * Please quote only the relevant portion of messages you respond to - and please quote some of the original message so others know what you're responding to. You shouldn't have to wade through gobs of extraneous stuff to get to the meat of the message. You should include just enough to provide a context for the message and no more. (Peter Kimble, my high school CS teacher, now gives his students the rule of thumb that at least half of the lines in an email message should be their own.) (A Beginner's Guide to Effective Email by Kaitlin Duck Sherwood) Quoting sparingly does require manual work, since most email programs automatically quote the [whole] original message in replies. But failing to edit the original wastes everyone's time and bandwidth. (Adam C. Engst, TidBITS #480.) * Derek List Nanny -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
Incidentally, some other mac mailing lists that *do* have strict netiquette requirements are lists that me and a number of other people have stopped posting on, because it's far too much of a hassle to get harassed for every single posting (I think the iMac list even refuses to send your messages). Todd Brayer toddbra...@gmail.com On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Derek Morton thes...@comcast.net wrote: Let's be clear... There is no LEM netiquette rule requiring (or even suggesting) bottom posting. There have been numerous discussions on the subject the result of which is that it is up to the individual to decide which method to use. As one who even did a little messaging from Argonne (East) to Argonne (West) back in the early 80's... I certainly understand the pros and cons of them both and utilize the method which seems to fit the need of the moment (typically top posting if it is a single reply message, inline bottom posting if there are multiple points with discrete answers). That said... You do need to do some trimming when replying to a message (pay attention to the little footer which is added automatically to every message). Quoting LEM netiquette: * Please quote only the relevant portion of messages you respond to - and please quote some of the original message so others know what you're responding to. You shouldn't have to wade through gobs of extraneous stuff to get to the meat of the message. You should include just enough to provide a context for the message and no more. (Peter Kimble, my high school CS teacher, now gives his students the rule of thumb that at least half of the lines in an email message should be their own.) (A Beginner's Guide to Effective Email by Kaitlin Duck Sherwood) Quoting sparingly does require manual work, since most email programs automatically quote the [whole] original message in replies. But failing to edit the original wastes everyone's time and bandwidth. (Adam C. Engst, TidBITS #480.) * Derek List Nanny -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
Sorry, new to the group, joined to solve a very specific problem. No idea if any of what Todd and Derek are saying is addressed to me. If so, I don't understand it and wouldn't know bottom-posting from top-fermenting. If not, sorry again. On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Todd Brayer toddbra...@gmail.com wrote: Incidentally, some other mac mailing lists that *do* have strict netiquette requirements are lists that me and a number of other people have stopped posting on, because it's far too much of a hassle to get harassed for every single posting (I think the iMac list even refuses to send your messages). Todd Brayer toddbra...@gmail.com On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Derek Morton thes...@comcast.net wrote: Let's be clear... There is no LEM netiquette rule requiring (or even suggesting) bottom posting. There have been numerous discussions on the subject the result of which is that it is up to the individual to decide which method to use. As one who even did a little messaging from Argonne (East) to Argonne (West) back in the early 80's... I certainly understand the pros and cons of them both and utilize the method which seems to fit the need of the moment (typically top posting if it is a single reply message, inline bottom posting if there are multiple points with discrete answers). That said... You do need to do some trimming when replying to a message (pay attention to the little footer which is added automatically to every message). Quoting LEM netiquette: * Please quote only the relevant portion of messages you respond to - and please quote some of the original message so others know what you're responding to. You shouldn't have to wade through gobs of extraneous stuff to get to the meat of the message. You should include just enough to provide a context for the message and no more. (Peter Kimble, my high school CS teacher, now gives his students the rule of thumb that at least half of the lines in an email message should be their own.) (A Beginner's Guide to Effective Email by Kaitlin Duck Sherwood) Quoting sparingly does require manual work, since most email programs automatically quote the [whole] original message in replies. But failing to edit the original wastes everyone's time and bandwidth. (Adam C. Engst, TidBITS #480.) * Derek List Nanny -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Jim Howard jasphow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, new to the group, joined to solve a very specific problem. No idea if any of what Todd and Derek are saying is addressed to me. If so, I don't understand it and wouldn't know bottom-posting from top-fermenting. If not, sorry again. Top-posting is bad; top-fermenting is good--lager may be smoother, but loses so much flavor, so stick to ale. -- The Hawkins Law Firm Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 hawkinslawf...@gmail.com 3025 S. Maryland Parkway Las Vegas, NV 89109 -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
RE: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
Well said... Back in the olden days, that's the way it was. Nowadays I've gotten used to top-posting, and I'll proudly stand up and say I personally prefer it that way...but only if the message has been cleaned up. For me, I usually already know what the thread is about by the subject...if I've been following along, there is probably not a need to scroll down through everything already posted before as I've probably already read it a few times. If I've missed something or am coming in half-way, then I'm happy to scroll down and see what I've missed...better than scrolling through three pages to find a one-line reply at the bottom... But, I can also happily deal with it either way...getting all bent out of shape accomplishes nothing other than to show off your ugly side. Now...can we get back to the subject everyone is here to discuss? Wesley -Original Message- Maybe you should be blaming the software vendors whose mail clients invite users to post this way by positioning the cursor *above* the quoted reply, a practice started (if I'm not mistaken) by Microsoft and copied by Apple and Google, instead of berating users who had no clue that their software was actively encouraging them to do things considered obnoxious. I don't like top-posting either, but your response was inappropriate. Flaming people for being ignorant was something you could get away with a couple decades ago before the Eternal September, but we lost the numbers advantage a long time ago and now must resort to gentler methods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September http://xkcd.com/386/ If you really want people to stop top-posting, get Google, Apple, and whoever else to fix their email clients. Josh -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
Josh, I'm with you. Having used email since 2BM (Before Macs) I've managed to go with the flow. Comments on trimming (blah blah blah) may have been more appropriate in a slower (connectivity) era, but today's email clients are not amicable to this. Personally, I have no problem reading emails in reverse order, as unfortunately, most corporate email environments behave this way, not that reading a lot of my daily work emails in posting order makes them any easier to understand :) Anyhow, hope you all had a great weekend, especially everyone dedicated (stupid) enough to have also stayed up into the wee hours of the morning to watch Cadel's triumph in Paris. Cheers, Michael On 25 July 2011 08:42, Joshua Juran jju...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 24, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Jeff Walther wrote: By the way, see the message above? See how the quoted text is trimmed? See how there's no sign of the list footer quoted? See how the thread of the message flows downward in the order that people read? This is how to post a readable message. Your top posted messages in which ** YOU FAIL TO TRIM ANY QUOTED TEXT AT ALL** are rude and inconsiderate to other members of the list. Maybe you should be blaming the software vendors whose mail clients invite users to post this way by positioning the cursor *above* the quoted reply, a practice started (if I'm not mistaken) by Microsoft and copied by Apple and Google, instead of berating users who had no clue that their software was actively encouraging them to do things considered obnoxious. I don't like top-posting either, but your response was inappropriate. Flaming people for being ignorant was something you could get away with a couple decades ago before the Eternal September, but we lost the numbers advantage a long time ago and now must resort to gentler methods. -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Wesley Furr wes...@megley.com wrote: Well said... Back in the olden days, that's the way it was. Nowadays I've gotten used to top-posting, and I'll proudly stand up and say I personally prefer it that way...but only if the message has been cleaned up. For me, I usually already know what the thread is about by the subject...if I've been following along, there is probably not a need to scroll down through everything already posted before as I've probably already read it a few times. If I've missed something or am coming in half-way, then I'm happy to scroll down and see what I've missed...better than scrolling through three pages to find a one-line reply at the bottom... But, I can also happily deal with it either way...getting all bent out of shape accomplishes nothing other than to show off your ugly side. Now...can we get back to the subject everyone is here to discuss? I have been here for a while and typically use gmail. I've never been called out and humiliated over something like this so I never knew it was a problem. I turned off rich formatting and hopefully this email follows the standards here. Now back on the topic, if there is a place that sells these guys for a decent price I'd love to know. Otherwise I guess I can troll ebay or LEMSwap. - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
Re: Email netiquette (Re: IIci vs. SSD)
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Wesley Furr wes...@megley.com wrote: Well said... Back in the olden days, that's the way it was. Nowadays I've gotten used to top-posting, and I'll proudly stand up and say I personally prefer it that way...but only if the message has been cleaned up. For me, I usually already know what the thread is about by the subject...if I've been following along, there is probably not a need to scroll down through everything already posted before as I've probably already read it a few times. If I've missed something or am coming in half-way, then I'm happy to scroll down and see what I've missed...better than scrolling through three pages to find a one-line reply at the bottom... But, I can also happily deal with it either way...getting all bent out of shape accomplishes nothing other than to show off your ugly side. Now...can we get back to the subject everyone is here to discuss? I have been here for a while and typically use gmail. I've never been called out and humiliated over something like this so I never knew it was a problem. I turned off rich formatting and hopefully this email follows the standards here. Now back on the topic, if there is a place that sells these guys for a decent price I'd love to know. - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/ -- - You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
