Re: Why Macs need disk drivers. Re: More about the Whiney Drives
He's educated all of us. Stick around. The best is yet to come . . . It is? There it was! Indeed: wow. ¬mart -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Why Macs need disk drivers. Re: More about the Whiney Drives
I spent alot more time than that locating the Silverlining which now apparently has me all screwed up. I usually carpet bomb hard disks with weird drivers. I put them in the tray, connect the wires and then start up from a floppy with Lido or the Micronet Utility (the patched hdsc is also an option) and begin formatting it. Afterwards the hard disk is tamed and behaves nicely. Marten -- -- Check out the System 6 Heaven: http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/system_6_heaven.html Subscribe to the LEM system6 list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Why Macs need disk drivers. Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Gregg Eshelman wrote: --- william ahearn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's educated all of us. Stick around. The best is yet to come . . . It is? Well, maybe not. But one can always hope . . . -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
From: Visionary [EMAIL PROTECTED] How do I tell if a version is hacked or not? Simply by whether it works or doesn't? The unhacked Apple version is titled Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5. The hacked version is titled HD SC Setup 7.3.5 (patched). I've never seen a download for the hacked version. It's easy enough to just download the patch application and do it oneself. Gamba http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2 -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
-- From: Gregg Eshelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vintage Macs) Subject: Re: More about the Whiney Drives Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2002, 10:17 PM We were discussing HARD DRIVES, nothing else. There is no special driver installed on the hard drive. The OS supports the hard drive _controller_ which is built into the motherboard most of the time, has been for quite a number of years. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! My Bad. But, there are drivers specifically from disk drive manufacturers which hugely improve the performance of PC IDE Drives. At issue: Got a Western Digital 1.2 GIG IDE drive. Cheap. Put it into a newer PC. Reads 500MB and is a b**ch to use, format and load an OS to. I Get the WD EZ Formatter. Suddenly I've got all 1.2 GIGS back and it flies. With the Mac, it's a similar story on some drives. If you ain't got a great initializing utility, getting that drive to work at maximum potential will be a hair puller. Jeff -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
More about the Whiney Drives
Thanks to all of you for your input thus far on my noisey Seagate drives. From what you all have said, my conclusion is that they are likely usable, but that the noise factor is inherent with this particular model and is exaggerated further by putting two such drives in a very small enclosure. So, my thinking now is that they may be usable as is for archiving and so on -- any purpose which does not require them to be on and spinning 24/7 which is where the noise factor becomes unacceptable. But now I've run into a second problem: I formatted the drives on a machine booted up as 8.1, the main, internal drive of that machine being accessed through LaCie's Silverlining software which makes drives not intended for Macs to be usable on a Mac. I'm not sure whether the 8.1 utilities or the Silverlining is at fault, but what I now find is that when this same drive enclosure is attached to another Mac running plain jane 7.1, they are unmountable, though still recognized by name. Can anyone divine for me whether it's 8.1 being a newer format or the Silverlining intervention that's at fault? What's my best bet for formatting these drives in such a way that they are universally recognizable? Again, I apologize for what are likely stupid, redundant questions for those steeped in the Mac culture, Glenn McGaha Miller Portfolio: http://www.visionary.nu Words Thoughts: http://www.youknowtheysay.com Print Orders: http://visionary.photoreflect.com Sales: http://shop.auctionwatch.com/gm2 Local Voice: 970.498.0675 ICQ: 10156065 AIM: gm2inco Yahoo MSN: gm2_in_co -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
How can I check? Did you format it as HFS+? -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
So, OS versions is not the problem, but Silverlining might be or something to do with format options not directly related to OS? -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Visionary wrote: So, OS versions is not the problem, but Silverlining might be or something to do with format options not directly related to OS? I don't really understand that. Do you mean that Silverlining formatted the drive in some weird way? -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
At 15:13 -0600 on 02/08/02, Visionary wrote: So, OS versions is not the problem, but Silverlining might be or something to do with format options not directly related to OS? Yes, that's possible. -- the pickle FAQ http://macfaq.org/index.shtml Software Archive ftp://download:[EMAIL PROTECTED]//Users/thepickl/Sites/Archive/ http://www.members.jmug.org/%7Ethepickl/archive/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
At 17:16 -0400 on 02/08/02, william ahearn wrote: Visionary wrote: So, OS versions is not the problem, but Silverlining might be or something to do with format options not directly related to OS? I don't really understand that. Do you mean that Silverlining formatted the drive in some weird way? It's been well known for quite some time that various HD drivers from various manufacturers may or may not play nicely together. I suspect this may be one of those cases. -- the pickle FAQ http://macfaq.org/index.shtml Software Archive ftp://download:[EMAIL PROTECTED]//Users/thepickl/Sites/Archive/ http://www.members.jmug.org/%7Ethepickl/archive/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
the pickle wrote: It's been well known for quite some time that various HD drivers from various manufacturers may or may not play nicely together. I know the problem well. I just wanted to make sure that's what he meant. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Look guys, I'm coming from the ugly Windows/DOS world. I don't understand the need for drivers to install a hard drive whatsoever except for that brief and ugly period in our own history when there was such a thing as EIDE which I tried to avoid like the plague. :) So, what I'm telling you is that I have no idea what something like Silverlining does or even why it's necessary. All I know is that the rather generic looking IBM SCSI drive I tried to put into my 7200/75 wasn't recognized until I used something called Silverlining. Further, I have no idea if it only masks the recognition or recognition inhibiting culprit or screws with other parameters as well. Beginning to get the picture? I know computers, but I know practically nothing about the Mac part of computers... that's what I'm getting at. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Visionary wrote: Look guys, I'm coming from the ugly Windows/DOS world. I don't understand the need for drivers to install a hard drive whatsoever except for that brief and ugly period in our own history when there was such a thing as EIDE which I tried to avoid like the plague. :) Alright. The best solution to this that I can think of is to use the hacked version of Apple's HDSC. (Apple designed it to see only Apple drives. The hack allows for other drives to be seen.) That way you can wipe the drive, install an Apple driver and be on your merry way. Wonder where to get it? H. We'll see. William -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Well, look at it this way. Apple's spin on the DOS format is designed to only recgonize certain HDs. Help some? Terry Look guys, I'm coming from the ugly Windows/DOS world. I don't understand the need for drivers to install a hard drive whatsoever except for that brief and ugly period in our own history when there was such a thing as EIDE which I tried to avoid like the plague. :) -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
At 16:29 -0600 on 02/08/02, Visionary wrote: Look guys, I'm coming from the ugly Windows/DOS world. I don't understand the need for drivers to install a hard drive whatsoever except for that The drivers are placed on the hard disk when the disk is formatted. All disks have a driver of some sort on them, no matter what platform/OS/type of drive, with the exception of (maybe) CD media. So, what I'm telling you is that I have no idea what something like Silverlining does or even why it's necessary. All I know is that the rather generic looking IBM SCSI drive I tried to put into my 7200/75 wasn't recognized until I used something called Silverlining. Further, I have Try the hacked HD SC Setup. It uses Apple's drivers, which I've never seen any problems with. And if you're wondering where it is, try that link under my name. -- the pickle FAQ http://macfaq.org/index.shtml Software Archive ftp://download:[EMAIL PROTECTED]//Users/thepickl/Sites/Archive/ http://www.members.jmug.org/%7Ethepickl/archive/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
William: Alright. The best solution to this that I can think of is to use the hacked version of Apple's HDSC. (Apple designed it to see only Apple drives. The hack allows for other drives to be seen.) I very much agree. Yes, use that one. Has done *a lot* for my macs. That way you can wipe the drive, install an Apple driver and be on your merry way. Wonder where to get it? H. We'll see. http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/ which may come as a surprise :) How do I tell if a version is hacked or not? Simply by whether it works or doesn't? That becomes clear when visiting Gamba's site. The hack is there to download, IIRC. good luck, ¬mart -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Look guys, I'm coming from the ugly Windows/DOS world. I don't understand the need for drivers to install a hard drive whatsoever except for that brief and ugly period in our own history when there was such a thing as EIDE which I tried to avoid like the plague. :) But you do use drivers in that world. Most new drives come with install disks and when you do the partitioning etc, that's when it puts in a driver. I'll admit, it's not like the way they work in the Mac universe. So, what I'm telling you is that I have no idea what something like Silverlining does or even why it's necessary. All I know is that the rather generic looking IBM SCSI drive I tried to put into my 7200/75 wasn't recognized until I used something called Silverlining. Further, I have no idea if it only masks the recognition or recognition inhibiting culprit or screws with other parameters as well. Here's what happened to me. I innocently chose update with FWB disk tools. When I looked at it with another program, it had an apple driver partition AND an FWB driver partition. It wouldn't recognize the Apple driver partition any more, so Norton's wasn't working right. I'm still working through this one, which will may mean reformatting the disk, since I can't seem to get the Apple driver working again. You may be able to take a look at the partitions and see exactly what drivers are installed. Teri Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
--- Visionary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can I check? Did you format it as HFS+? Connect it back to the Mac you formatted it on that's running OS 8.1, click on the drive then hit Command I. It should say Mac OS Standard or Mac OS Extended. Extended is HFS+. If it says Standard then you have a disk driver problem. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
--- the pickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been well known for quite some time that various HD drivers from various manufacturers may or may not play nicely together. Tell me about it. :P I loaned a drive to a friend and told him he could erase it, what was on it wasn't important. When I got it back he had _reformatted_ it HFS+ using HDT 4. When I hooked it up to the Power IIci running 7.6.1 off an HFS drive formatted with HDT 3.0.2 it would crash while booting. I like to format everything, even removables other than my Zip disks, using the same utility. Can't have a disk driver conflict that way. :) = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Why Macs need disk drivers. Re: More about the Whiney Drives
The Mac uses disk drivers because the ROM in the Mac doesn't know how to talk directly to a whole bunch of different hard drives with all sorts of different configurations of cylinders, heads and sectors. 1984 was in the days before PC hard drive controllers could autodetect the drive paramaters and had to be manually configured for each drive or had a small list of drives they could work with. The Mac got around all that by A. using SCSI and B. having a software program interrogate the drive before formatting it then writing a driver to the disk that would allow the Mac ROM code to interface with any drive in exactly the same way. Saved space in the ROM and PRAM (which is like the CMOS RAM in a PC) and insulated the user from having to know anything about the physical parameters of the drive. But then Apple had to throw a monkey wrench into the works by programming their drive setup software to only work with SCSI drives that the manufacturer had inserted a tag into the ROM saying Apple Computer. Apple wanted every Mac owner to be forced to have to buy Apple brand hard drives. Thus were 3rd party formatter utilities like Silverlining, Hard Disk Toolkit, SCSI Director and others created to get around the Apple monopoly on Macintosh hard drive supply. So in a sense all Macs are using a BIOS overlay driver like when you use Disk Manager to shove an 8 gigabyte IDE drive into a PC with a BIOS that only understands up to 2 gigabytes. But with the Macintosh they all use the same language to talk to the drives so a drive formatted on one Mac will (should!) be usable on any other Mac. Try making a Disk Tools floppy for the version of the System or Mac OS you have on that Vintage Mac then connect only the drive you're having trouble with and see if it mounts on the desktop. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
--- the pickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The drivers are placed on the hard disk when the disk is formatted. All disks have a driver of some sort on them, no matter what platform/OS/type of drive, with the exception of (maybe) CD media. PCs don't use any special driver on the disk unless the PC is an older one with the 512meg, 2gig or 8gig size limit and a drive bigger than the particular limit of the specific PC's BIOS is installed. Then the PC (ab)user ;-) has to use some 3rd party util that creates a special boot sector containing a loadable BIOS patch (sorta like a Mac extention that patches over part of the ROM) to translate for the DOS or Windows OS. Linux has been written so that it doesn't need such a crutch on PCs with older BIOS with those size limits. I never liked using those BIOS overlay drive installers because any boot sector virus or a misused disk utility could blow away the special boot sector and your data would be toasted beyond the reach of anything but a several thousand dollar trip to a data recovery specialist. (Never happened to me, luckily!) I did have HDT 3.0.2 go so horribly wrong while attempting to make a spanned and striped set of a pair of 1gig drives that I had to low level format them using my PC before any util on the Mac would even acknowledge that the drives were there. :P Was trying it on my Power IIci. Even though the DayStar Turbo 601 has SCSI Manager 4.3 in its ROM, anything that requires it refuses to acknowledge that it is there. HDT 3.0.2 needs SM4.3 to setup any RAID array, but only tells you that AFTER it fails to set up the array and has royally fouled things up good. :P = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
--- Teri Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look guys, I'm coming from the ugly Windows/DOS world. I don't understand the need for drivers to install a hard drive whatsoever except for that brief and ugly period in our own history when there was such a thing as EIDE which I tried to avoid like the plague. :) But you do use drivers in that world. Most new drives come with install disks and when you do the partitioning etc, that's when it puts in a driver. I'll admit, it's not like the way they work in the Mac universe. Ehm, no. Those utils simply ease and automate the process that otherwise takes FDISK, FORMAT and 2 or 3 reboots. The only time a driver is needed on a PC is when you have an older PC with one of the drive size limits in the BIOS and a drive bigger than the specific limit on that particular PC. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Why Macs need disk drivers. Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Gregg: Thanks so much for this note. Many have chimed in with potentially useful information about how to solve my immediate problem, but here you have educated me on the ways of Macdom. The Mac uses disk drivers because the ROM in the Mac doesn't know how to talk directly to a whole bunch of different hard drives with all sorts of different configurations of cylinders, heads and sectors. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Why Macs need disk drivers. Re: More about the Whiney Drives
Visionary wrote: Gregg: Thanks so much for this note. Many have chimed in with potentially useful information about how to solve my immediate problem, but here you have educated me on the ways of Macdom. He's educated all of us. Stick around. The best is yet to come . . . -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
At 07:39 PM 08/02/2002 -0700, you wrote: The only time a driver is needed on a PC is when you have an older PC with one of the drive size limits in the BIOS and a drive bigger than the specific limit on that particular PC. You mean there's a newer OS than Win95? I don't just do trailing edge on Macs *grin*! Teri Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] New and improved site: http://www.xws.com/terispage/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
-- From: Gregg Eshelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vintage Macs) Subject: Re: More about the Whiney Drives Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2002, 7:39 PM Ehm, no. Those utils simply ease and automate the process that otherwise takes FDISK, FORMAT and 2 or 3 reboots. The only time a driver is needed on a PC is when you have an older PC with one of the drive size limits in the BIOS and a drive bigger than the specific limit on that particular PC. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! Sorry, Greg. I just set up an AMD 1.2 Ghz box from the year 2002. It requires drivers for the DVD, Modem, Board chips like the VIA PC-133 chip, on-board sound, modem hard disk, and etc. Drivers are not obsolete, yet. Jeff -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: More about the Whiney Drives
--- J.S. Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, Greg. I just set up an AMD 1.2 Ghz box from the year 2002. It requires drivers for the DVD, Modem, Board chips like the VIA PC-133 chip, on-board sound, modem hard disk, and etc. Drivers are not obsolete, yet. We were discussing HARD DRIVES, nothing else. There is no special driver installed on the hard drive. The OS supports the hard drive _controller_ which is built into the motherboard most of the time, has been for quite a number of years. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
