Mac verses Ipad
I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly apppreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
There is an app for reading books from bookshare called read2go for the iPad and phone etc. You download books directly inside the app and can use either voice over or the speech that comes with the app to read those books. I would never replace my computer with an iPad for at least two reasons. I scan books. Can't do that on an iPad. I also don't think the word processors are ready for accessibility prime time on any i-device compared with a pc or even a Mac. The iPad is fine for email and the web etc. But as a content creation device, as a blind person, I don't think it compares with a computer. Mary Mary Otten motte...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, and haven't looked back at all! The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > > > I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I’m thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books > from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn’t have a US > port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and > let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or > comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I would say, that unless you mainly are looking for a consumption device, that you'll likely need a Mac as well as an iOS product like iPad or iPhone. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > > > I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I’m thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books > from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn’t have a US > port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and > let me know their experiences I would greatly apppreciate any suggestions or > comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I have to agree. I switched to the Mac a year ago this month. Voice-Over on the Mac functions quite differently from screen-readers on Windows, so you will need to give yourself plenty of time and patience to learn the new system. Also, Mac does many things differently as well. As for going exclusively to the iPad without a computer, it is possible unless you need to do semi-complex word processing. Pages for iOS is accessible except when it comes to renaming files. For that, it gets difficult. That said, there are apps for the iPad which do not exist for the iPhone, that write and edit word documents. As I do not yet have an iPad, I do not know if, or how well, they are accessible. I've played with a friend's iPad for surfing the net and really enjoyed the relational experience for examining web pages. With my Mac, it is a bit more hit and miss, though overall, I prefer surfing the net with my mac. In my case, my iPhone 5 is my primary computer. I use my mac for editing and formatting papers for my doctoral studies. I also use it for EndNote reference tracking as EndNote is required by my University, and I have not yet found an iOS version of the program. If one ever comes out, I may almost never turn on my Mac. Do to the nature of my research, I am currently saving for an iPad Mini. I will need it when I begin the practical portion of my research. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 24/10/2012, at 9:08, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and > Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, > and haven't looked back at all! > > The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of > all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate > relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and > over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until I > was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost > me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant > on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. > > Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. > > > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > >> >> >> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I’m thinking of going >> exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main >> computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books >> from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn’t have a US >> port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and >> let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or >> comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google >> Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
I do have an iphone and love it. JAWS and internet explorer are driving me crazy with all the crashes etc. Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, and haven't looked back at all! The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > > > I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Good points! I do have the read to go app on my phone and I do use it however I do like my victor stream. I am tending toward the Mac but just wanted to know what people thought. Going from a PC to Mac , how difficult is the learning curve? Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad There is an app for reading books from bookshare called read2go for the iPad and phone etc. You download books directly inside the app and can use either voice over or the speech that comes with the app to read those books. I would never replace my computer with an iPad for at least two reasons. I scan books. Can't do that on an iPad. I also don't think the word processors are ready for accessibility prime time on any i-device compared with a pc or even a Mac. The iPad is fine for email and the web etc. But as a content creation device, as a blind person, I don't think it compares with a computer. Mary Mary Otten motte...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
You can buy adapters for the iPad to give it a usb port, then you can plug low power demand devices into it. Remember the iPad is not going to want to power other things. I know pen drives are supported and since the stream is power sufficient I should think, it should be supportable too. I had a bunch of these, but for the more modern iPads, so no good to me; so I sold them, but no one came back to say they didn't work. Not expensive either. RobH. - Original Message - From: "Kathy and Wilda" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:43 PM Subject: Mac verses Ipad I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly apppreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
We're more or less back to the MBA again then! - Original Message - From: "Mary Otten" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad There is an app for reading books from bookshare called read2go for the iPad and phone etc. You download books directly inside the app and can use either voice over or the speech that comes with the app to read those books. I would never replace my computer with an iPad for at least two reasons. I scan books. Can't do that on an iPad. I also don't think the word processors are ready for accessibility prime time on any i-device compared with a pc or even a Mac. The iPad is fine for email and the web etc. But as a content creation device, as a blind person, I don't think it compares with a computer. Mary Mary Otten motte...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
I have an iPhone, a PC, and a Mac at home. The iPhone is great, but my PC is superior for complex Word editing. Voiceover can be conquered if you want to switch exclusively to the Mac, and if you don't require advanced editing, it'll be great. I don't think Voiceover on the Mac still rivals PC screen readers. To be fair JAWS 14 has come a very long way. My frustration decreased since version 13, but this also has to do with an overhaul of my computer system. That's another thing you don't have to worry about with the Mac. Bottom line, you'll do great with Voiceover, but if anyone likes JAWS, it's not out of the running yet, at least in my own personal opinion.--Joe -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy and Wilda Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Mac verses Ipad I do have an iphone and love it. JAWS and internet explorer are driving me crazy with all the crashes etc. Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, and haven't looked back at all! The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > > > I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Mary, I actually think with VueScan Mobile and Prizmo, you actually could work with the scanning thing. As far as "word processing" I think with a bluetooth keyboard, Pages, and some of the other similar apps it may be possible. Perfect? Maybe not, but I think time will see improvements here as well. Obviously all this is based on what you are trying to do. I won't say you are wrong, but true we ain't quite there yet. :) On Oct 23, 2012, at 4:02 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > > There is an app for reading books from bookshare called read2go for the iPad > and phone etc. You download books directly inside the app and can use either > voice over or the speech that comes with the app to read those books. I would > never replace my computer with an iPad for at least two reasons. I scan > books. Can't do that on an iPad. I also don't think the word processors are > ready for accessibility prime time on any i-device compared with a pc or even > a Mac. The iPad is fine for email and the web etc. But as a content creation > device, as a blind person, I don't think it compares with a computer. > > Mary > > Mary Otten > motte...@gmail.com > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I have been a Mac user for a number of years now and since my Credit Union fixed their site I have no real need for IE. In fact they recently updated their iOS mobile banking app and it is incredibly accessible, so I am finding that the site is less necessary even. I use both the iPad and iPhone, but I still do use my Mac for some tasks that are simply not available yet on the iOS platform. I truly can say I do not regret making the move and it can only get better. On Oct 23, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > I do have an iphone and love it. JAWS and internet explorer are driving me > crazy with all the crashes etc. > > Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and > Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, > and haven't looked back at all! > > The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of > all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate > relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and > over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until > I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost > me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant > on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. > > Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. > > > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > >> >> >> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books > from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US > port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and > let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or > comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Joe, although you are entitled to your opinion, I think you have to qualify "complex" word processing. There are many who would disagree with your assertions and that applies to either iOS or the Mac platforms. On Oct 23, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Joe wrote: > I have an iPhone, a PC, and a Mac at home. The iPhone is great, but my PC is > superior for complex Word editing. Voiceover can be conquered if you want to > switch exclusively to the Mac, and if you don't require advanced editing, > it'll be great. I don't think Voiceover on the Mac still rivals PC screen > readers. To be fair JAWS 14 has come a very long way. My frustration > decreased since version 13, but this also has to do with an overhaul of my > computer system. That's another thing you don't have to worry about with the > Mac. Bottom line, you'll do great with Voiceover, but if anyone likes JAWS, > it's not out of the running yet, at least in my own personal opinion.--Joe > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Kathy and Wilda > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:52 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Mac verses Ipad > > I do have an iphone and love it. JAWS and internet explorer are driving me > crazy with all the crashes etc. > > Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and > Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, > and haven't looked back at all! > > The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of > all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate > relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and > over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until > I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost > me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant > on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. > > Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. > > > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > >> >> >> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books > from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US > port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and > let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or > comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this gro
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Mary, I have been working with accessibility for 22 years now and would like to suggest the following: Get an IPad and a Mac if you wish or get an IPad and keep your PC but do not change your computer for an IPad. You would regret that for a long time. Tablets are certainly not up to replacing a computer yet and probably never will be. HTH Ron & Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad There is an app for reading books from bookshare called read2go for the iPad and phone etc. You download books directly inside the app and can use either voice over or the speech that comes with the app to read those books. I would never replace my computer with an iPad for at least two reasons. I scan books. Can't do that on an iPad. I also don't think the word processors are ready for accessibility prime time on any i-device compared with a pc or even a Mac. The iPad is fine for email and the web etc. But as a content creation device, as a blind person, I don't think it compares with a computer. Mary Mary Otten motte...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Neil, Totally agree with you with the Apple experience vs PC and JAWS if you are a home user but it doesn't work that way yet in the office worled. Chances are that if you are employed, you will still need to put up with the JAWS experience. Ron & Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, and haven't looked back at all! The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > > > I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
I don't think anything needs to be out of the running. I primarily use my Mac with my iPhone a close second. Then comes my linux very close behind, and then Windows 7 with Windoweyes, System Access and occasionally the Jaws demo but my Windows system is just for fun or when all else fails. I had an iPad 1 and didn't use it enough so gave it to a friend. I liked it; i just found I didn't use it as much as I thought I would. But it doesn't mean i'll never use an iPad again. Each person needs to use the combination of equipment and software that works best for her/him and for most of us even that isn't static; I'm always re-evaluating what works best for me and my new braille display, even though it only has 18 cells, is changing the way I do things on the Mac and iphone a lot. No, nothing ever needs to be out of the running. -- Cheryl May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable to You, Lord, my rock and my Redeemer. (Psalm 19:14, HCSB) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Scott, I have a BT keyboard; I don't use pages. Too many reports of people losing place, or I guess it is vo losing focus etc, and because I have a Mac and an old PC, it wouldn't be worth it for me to put in the time to deal with Pages on an I-device. But the scanning? With an I-device? No way. I want to be able to do books, and can't imagine doing that with an i-device, even if the ocr were a ton more reliable than it is right now. I imagine I'll end up putting Windows on a Mac when my older pc finally gives up the ghost. But I can't imagine giving up all computing devices other than an iPad or iPhone. At least not for the foreseeable future. Mary Mary Otten motte...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Scott, Fair point. In my daily word processing I need to make use of footnotes and other reference notations, indices and other layouts, comments, track changes, mail merge, document comparisons, and this is completely independent of the spreadsheet formulaic and diagram operations I need to be able to perform. My tune may change when Office becomes more accessible with Voiceover, but for now, detecting simple elements like styles is not comparable to other products. If anyone is tackling such tasks with relative ease, by all means set me straight. Part of the issue, as someone else pointed out, is that for the moment at least the PC still dominates the workplace, and other assistive solutions have had time to mature along the way. No wrong answer here, just a difference of opinions. Joe -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:59 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Joe, although you are entitled to your opinion, I think you have to qualify "complex" word processing. There are many who would disagree with your assertions and that applies to either iOS or the Mac platforms. On Oct 23, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Joe wrote: > I have an iPhone, a PC, and a Mac at home. The iPhone is great, but my > PC is superior for complex Word editing. Voiceover can be conquered if > you want to switch exclusively to the Mac, and if you don't require > advanced editing, it'll be great. I don't think Voiceover on the Mac > still rivals PC screen readers. To be fair JAWS 14 has come a very > long way. My frustration decreased since version 13, but this also has > to do with an overhaul of my computer system. That's another thing you > don't have to worry about with the Mac. Bottom line, you'll do great > with Voiceover, but if anyone likes JAWS, it's not out of the running > yet, at least in my own personal opinion.--Joe > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy and Wilda > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:52 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Mac verses Ipad > > I do have an iphone and love it. JAWS and internet explorer are > driving me crazy with all the crashes etc. > > Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia > and Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to > Apple in 2010, and haven't looked back at all! > > The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and > most of all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love > hate relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, > over and over, and over again more, and probably would have continued > to do so until I was bleeding to death from all the money that > terribly flakey product cost me, and I, I was the hate part of the > relationship. I hated being dependant on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. > > Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. > > > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an > Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all > your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit > www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > >> >> >> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download > books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't > have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give > me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly > appreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and > Seeing Eye dog Wilda >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Kathy, I also really like my iPhone and it's amazing what you can do with it. However, don't make the mistake to just assume that a Mac is going to be just as awesome. You can't compare an iPhone to a Mac and while I am sure Mac lovers disagree, I firmly hold that a PC running Windows 7 with now Jaws 14 is a better solution if you are a power user. If all you do is write emails, do Skype, browse the web and so on a Mac with Voiceover maybe OK, but then again you can do that with just an iPhone or an iPad. I am not sure what you mean by "JAWS and internet explorer are driving me crazy with all the crashes etc.", to me that is such a generalized statement and while a PC can crash and while Jaws can sometimes become unresponsive, it's not like a Mac is immune to these things. If you do a lot of browsing I think Jaws, especially 14 with the new flexible web feature and all the things like navigation quick keys etc. will be more efficient and it's not as if you don't have choices regarding your browser, you can use IE, Firefox and Chrome and sometimes I use IE for one thing and Firefox for another thing because I discovered one works better than the other for certain applications. The nice thing is that Jaws features like navigation quick keys, placemarkers or the flexible web feature works regardless. I listened to the announcement today of the new MacBook laptops and while they sound like awesome computers, I can still buy a Windows laptop with the same specs (except maybe the weight and thickness) for $600 or $700 less than the entry level MacBook Pro 13 inch. I bought an Acer TimelineX laptop last January, so almost a year ago, and it has very similar specs as far as processor and memory is concerned, it has a 120 Gig solid state drive and it's actually a 15 inch laptop with a full keyboard including numeric pad plus it has a DVD Writer. I also get about 8 hours of battery life and the entire thing including the upgrade to the solid state drive was $900. I'd have to spend $2,000 to get a 15" Macbook Pro with these specs or maybe even more and it's not as if I care whether it has a retina display. These are just some thoughts for those who are super impressed with the MacBooks Apple announced today. AS I said, they are beautiful and definitely sound like fantastic computers, but as is usual, people tend to think of anything Apple makes as superior and that is not always entirely justified. Regards, Sieghard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
If you have a monitor, don't forget about the Mac mini. It's only about $600 and is about the size of a Kleenex box. Works great! I am running both the Mac Mini and my PC in conjunction into the same monitor using at VGA a b switch. With this set up, I can go back and forth between the Mac and PC as I learn the voiceover on the Mac. I started doing this in January, and about 90% of my work is now done on the Mac. I also have an iPad, but I don't think it offers enough for my normal everyday computing I do quite a bit of web design. Chuck -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Ron, I employ, rather than am employed some 10,000 people across the four businesses I own. I use Mac Exclusively, and we operate in a highly technical industry. I currently run four businesses and am working towards starting another two right now. All this talk of complex word processing etc, its just unquantified, and a little to wishy washy for my liking. I work with complex 50+ page documents, with tabbed numbering, auto adjusting paragraphs, track changes etc. These documents move between MS Word and Apple Pages without problem for me. Can someone quantify for me with real examples as to how word processing has issues on the Mac? Especially when referring to use between the latest MS Word build and the latest Apple Pages build. Please do not compare something like Word with Text, or something like that, as you're comparing the wrong things which would be unfair. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 00:31, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Hi Neil, > > Totally agree with you with the Apple experience vs PC and JAWS if you are a > home user but it doesn't work that way yet in the office world. Chances > are that if you are employed, you will still need to put up with the JAWS > experience. > > Ron & Danvers > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and > Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, > and haven't looked back at all! > > The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of > all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate > relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and > over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until > I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost > me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant > on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. > > Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. > > > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > >> >> >> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books > from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US > port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and > let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or > comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > T
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Sieghard, You and I were bound to one day disagree… here it is: That shiny new PC laptop which you bought for half the money, well done, yes, Apple products costs more, what you failed to highlight is how much JAWS then cost you to put onto it… Even if you just look at the SMA costs, JAWS is terribly expensive. I bought JAWS Pro in 1997 and paid the Pro SMA for years there after, I've never been impressed with it, and until they do moe to keep it in line with industry updates and work on reliability for new hardware technologies etc JAWS is never a good choice for the power user… This business of power user, of course the term just means someone who knows quite abit about the machine, the software and who uses it for around 8 hours a day. I use my Mac for way more than that and did so with my Windows machines too. Then there's inclusive and consistency of updates. How long before FS will decide that JAWS users may just wish to use Windows 8, or even dare to want to try a Windows 8 tablet? I got so very fed up with FS telling me that JAWS wouldn't support the latest Windows release for months, and often a year or so. That is just beyond unacceptable. Both Lion and Mountain Lion were both fully accessible and usable by us on day one, along with our sighted peers. oh, and how much did I pay for that accessibility over my sighted peers, nothing. As someone who owns multinational businesses I need my computing solution to work, be reliable, functional, up to date and effective. I use spread sheets with formulae, multi page spread sheets. I use wordd processed docs with track changes and other more advanced features, I live in mail and often have 10 plus tabs open in the web-browser. My Mac just eats it all up, JAWS would have crashed hours ago and left me stranded. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 03:38, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi Kathy, > > I also really like my iPhone and it's amazing what you can do with it. > However, don't make the mistake to just assume that a Mac is going to be > just as awesome. You can't compare an iPhone to a Mac and while I am sure > Mac lovers disagree, I firmly hold that a PC running Windows 7 with now Jaws > 14 is a better solution if you are a power user. If all you do is write > emails, do Skype, browse the web and so on a Mac with Voiceover maybe OK, > but then again you can do that with just an iPhone or an iPad. I am not sure > what you mean by "JAWS and internet explorer are driving me crazy with all > the crashes etc.", to me that is such a generalised statement and while a PC > can crash and while Jaws can sometimes become unresponsive, it's not like a > Mac is immune to these things. If you do a lot of browsing I think Jaws, > especially 14 with the new flexible web feature and all the things like > navigation quick keys etc. will be more efficient and it's not as if you > don't have choices regarding your browser, you can use IE, Firefox and > Chrome and sometimes I use IE for one thing and Firefox for another thing > because I discovered one works better than the other for certain > applications. The nice thing is that Jaws features like navigation quick > keys, placemarkers or the flexible web feature works regardless. > > I listened to the announcement today of the new MacBook laptops and while > they sound like awesome computers, I can still buy a Windows laptop with the > same specs (except maybe the weight and thickness) for $600 or $700 less > than the entry level MacBook Pro 13 inch. I bought an Acer TimelineX laptop > last January, so almost a year ago, and it has very similar specs as far as > processor and memory is concerned, it has a 120 Gig solid state drive and > it's actually a 15 inch laptop with a full keyboard including numeric pad > plus it has a DVD Writer. I also get about 8 hours of battery life and the > entire thing including the upgrade to the solid state drive was $900. I'd > have to spend $2,000 to get a 15" Macbook Pro with these specs or maybe even > more and it's not as if I care whether it has a retina display. > > These are just some thoughts for those who are super impressed with the > MacBooks Apple announced today. AS I said, they are beautiful and definitely > sound like fantastic computers, but as is usual, people tend to think of > anything Apple makes as superior and that is not always entirely justified. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hello Neil, Disagreeing and discussing this topic is of course good and stimulating. I don't own multi-national businesses with thousands of employees, but I do own a retail business with 4 or 5 employees and maybe I could make a Mac work for me if I really wanted. I am on my computer all day long both for work and for play/recreation/keeping in touch with friends and family and having been a Jaws user since 1989 to me it's maybe all about what I feel comfortable with and about muscle memory. It is of course also about the applications I use, my point of sale solution is Microsoft Retail Management Solution which is one of their Dynamics products, I am using Sage Simply Accounting which as of this upcoming version is being renamed to Sage 50 as my accounting program and I do all my bookkeeping, payroll, tax filing etc. Then of course there is Outlook which I use as my mail client along with my Office 365 subscription which gives me full hosted exchange. We also scan and electronically file all invoices and most paperwork for which I use Nuance Paperport and I use Excel every day as I get many order forms from companies in Excel format. Lastly I do of course use the Internet extensively. I realize the Apple also has a point of sale solution for retailers, I am sure there are probably accounting packages out there although here in Canada Sage Simply Accounting is very widely used because it has all the tax tables for calculating the payroll deductions (Employment Insurance, Canada Pension Plan and Federal Income tax) which I have to submit to the government each month and I am not aware that they have a Mac version. Anyhow, as I said, I'm sure it's all doable, but at this point I am not doing it. I went into an Apple Store last year and spend about an hour playing around with Voiceover and while this of course is not nearly enough, one thing I found very difficult is the fact that often you have to press so many keys together. I became blint when I was 16 and built a pipe bomb which exploded when I was holding it in my hands and I had extremely bad hand injuries. As a result I only have 3 fingers on each hand, I lost both the index and middle finger on each hand and I found it very difficult to press some of these key combinations. Maybe there are work-arounds for that as well, I assume you must be able to assign different key combinations as you can in Jaws and of course Voiceover has come a long way in the last few years. As for the cost, well, to me giving $200 to Freedom Scientific every 2 years to maintain my SMA really is not a big deal. I don't think they can get enough revenue out of selling new licences to pay their people as they are a small company with a limited number of products. I find Windows 7 with Jaws 13 and now 14 to be very stabil and the days when you have to wait months until a new OS is supported are over as well. The final release of Jaws 14 was released a couple of days ago and Windows 8 officially starts shipping I think this Friday or next Monday, so the timing is perfect and Windows 8 is fully supported from day 1. I am at this point not even going to worry about whether I can or cannot use a Windows 8 tablet. I am very interested to see whether a true Windows 8 tablet like the Surface and by that I mean an Intel based tablet not one with Windows RT will be able to run Jaws and I guess we will find out soon enough. But the iPad of course dominates the tablet market and another thing I can't wait to see is when Office will be available for the iPad, from what I hear from the sources I follow this could happen as early as Q1 2013 and then of course it will be interesting to see whether it is accessible with Voiceover. OK, now I really do have to sleep, let's continue to disagree another day *smile* All the best, Sieghard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Sieghard, You are correct that for accountancy purposes, even here Windows is the only option, we too use Sage, and for that I have to use Windows via Boot Camp. I am very interested to learn that JAWS 14 will support Windows 8 on day one, that is interesting very much to me. You say the days of waiting for OS support are over, sounds like they are, but, even Windows 7 took FS 6 months to support. So this is only a change in the last 2 years. $200 is Excellent, here in the UK our FS resellers gouge the heck out of us. With a premium license for JAWS costing £1200 around US$1900 and with the SMA costing £400 around US$700. I do accept that the none pro versions of JAWS are about 2/3 of these costs respectively. Never the less, for none US/Canadian clients of FS, we are all screwed by our local dealers. If Freedom Scientific could stimulate competition within the market by opening it up, i.e. I could buy from any dealer within the world. That would stimulate excellence in resale, promote competition and help promote cost equality. As it is right now, I cannot buy from a US or other dealer, even though it would save me half the money. Playing with a Mac in a store is never a good idea from the blind point of view, buy one and take it home, it wouldn't work for your accountancy needs, but, you can run boot camp etc. With Mac you can operate Voice Over in several ways, one, that gets little press is Quick Nav, Quick Nav allows for one handed access to your Mac. The maximum key presses are two at a time. I once said that using a Mac was like being an octopus, owing to the amount of keys you had to use, but that is with their traditional keyboard interface, you can use numberpad commander, quick nav, and also track pad commander, which is like using an iPhone etc. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 09:28, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hello Neil, > > Disagreeing and discussing this topic is of course good and stimulating. I > don't own multi-national businesses with thousands of employees, but I do > own a retail business with 4 or 5 employees and maybe I could make a Mac > work for me if I really wanted. I am on my computer all day long both for > work and for play/recreation/keeping in touch with friends and family and > having been a Jaws user since 1989 to me it's maybe all about what I feel > comfortable with and about muscle memory. It is of course also about the > applications I use, my point of sale solution is Microsoft Retail Management > Solution which is one of their Dynamics products, I am using Sage Simply > Accounting which as of this upcoming version is being renamed to Sage 50 as > my accounting program and I do all my bookkeeping, payroll, tax filing etc. > Then of course there is Outlook which I use as my mail client along with my > Office 365 subscription which gives me full hosted exchange. We also scan > and electronically file all invoices and most paperwork for which I use > Nuance Paperport and I use Excel every day as I get many order forms from > companies in Excel format. Lastly I do of course use the Internet > extensively. I realize the Apple also has a point of sale solution for > retailers, I am sure there are probably accounting packages out there > although here in Canada Sage Simply Accounting is very widely used because > it has all the tax tables for calculating the payroll deductions (Employment > Insurance, Canada Pension Plan and Federal Income tax) which I have to > submit to the government each month and I am not aware that they have a Mac > version. Anyhow, as I said, I'm sure it's all doable, but at this point I am > not doing it. > > I went into an Apple Store last year and spend about an hour playing around > with Voiceover and while this of course is not nearly enough, one thing I > found very difficult is the fact that often you have to press so many keys > together. I became blint when I was 16 and built a pipe bomb which exploded > when I was holding it in my hands and I had extremely bad hand injuries. As > a result I only have 3 fingers on each hand, I lost both the index and > middle finger on each hand and I found it very difficult to press some of > these key combinations. Maybe there are work-arounds for that as well, I > assume you must be able to assign different key combinations as you can in > Jaws and of course Voiceover has come a long way in the last few years. > > As for the cost, well, to me giving $200 to Freedom Scientific every 2 years > to maintain my SMA really is not a big deal. I don't think they can get > enough revenue out of selling new licences to pay their peo
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I wonder if the $200 is actually for a JAWS upgrade or something. Christopher Hallsworth On 24/10/2012 10:58, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: Sieghard, You are correct that for accountancy purposes, even here Windows is the only option, we too use Sage, and for that I have to use Windows via Boot Camp. I am very interested to learn that JAWS 14 will support Windows 8 on day one, that is interesting very much to me. You say the days of waiting for OS support are over, sounds like they are, but, even Windows 7 took FS 6 months to support. So this is only a change in the last 2 years. $200 is Excellent, here in the UK our FS resellers gouge the heck out of us. With a premium license for JAWS costing £1200 around US$1900 and with the SMA costing £400 around US$700. I do accept that the none pro versions of JAWS are about 2/3 of these costs respectively. Never the less, for none US/Canadian clients of FS, we are all screwed by our local dealers. If Freedom Scientific could stimulate competition within the market by opening it up, i.e. I could buy from any dealer within the world. That would stimulate excellence in resale, promote competition and help promote cost equality. As it is right now, I cannot buy from a US or other dealer, even though it would save me half the money. Playing with a Mac in a store is never a good idea from the blind point of view, buy one and take it home, it wouldn't work for your accountancy needs, but, you can run boot camp etc. With Mac you can operate Voice Over in several ways, one, that gets little press is Quick Nav, Quick Nav allows for one handed access to your Mac. The maximum key presses are two at a time. I once said that using a Mac was like being an octopus, owing to the amount of keys you had to use, but that is with their traditional keyboard interface, you can use numberpad commander, quick nav, and also track pad commander, which is like using an iPhone etc. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 09:28, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: Hello Neil, Disagreeing and discussing this topic is of course good and stimulating. I don't own multi-national businesses with thousands of employees, but I do own a retail business with 4 or 5 employees and maybe I could make a Mac work for me if I really wanted. I am on my computer all day long both for work and for play/recreation/keeping in touch with friends and family and having been a Jaws user since 1989 to me it's maybe all about what I feel comfortable with and about muscle memory. It is of course also about the applications I use, my point of sale solution is Microsoft Retail Management Solution which is one of their Dynamics products, I am using Sage Simply Accounting which as of this upcoming version is being renamed to Sage 50 as my accounting program and I do all my bookkeeping, payroll, tax filing etc. Then of course there is Outlook which I use as my mail client along with my Office 365 subscription which gives me full hosted exchange. We also scan and electronically file all invoices and most paperwork for which I use Nuance Paperport and I use Excel every day as I get many order forms from companies in Excel format. Lastly I do of course use the Internet extensively. I realize the Apple also has a point of sale solution for retailers, I am sure there are probably accounting packages out there although here in Canada Sage Simply Accounting is very widely used because it has all the tax tables for calculating the payroll deductions (Employment Insurance, Canada Pension Plan and Federal Income tax) which I have to submit to the government each month and I am not aware that they have a Mac version. Anyhow, as I said, I'm sure it's all doable, but at this point I am not doing it. I went into an Apple Store last year and spend about an hour playing around with Voiceover and while this of course is not nearly enough, one thing I found very difficult is the fact that often you have to press so many keys together. I became blint when I was 16 and built a pipe bomb which exploded when I was holding it in my hands and I had extremely bad hand injuries. As a result I only have 3 fingers on each hand, I lost both the index and middle finger on each hand and I found it very difficult to press some of these key combinations. Maybe there are work-arounds for that as well, I assume you must be able to assign different key combinations as you can in Jaws and of course Voiceover has come a long way in the last few years. As for the cost, well, to me giving $200 to Freedom Scientific every 2 years to maintain my SMA really is not a big deal. I don't think they
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Well, I have both a Windows 7 64 bit laptop and a Macbook Pro 2012 model. I like them both, and switch to them on a daily basis. I am on my laptop more recently because what has been new in the Windows world over the last week. But say I go on Skype tonight I will switch over to my mac because I love Skype for this platform. I use both computers for recreational purposes only. I also have an iPhone 4, but certainly do not use it as a computer and never wil. They are just not on par compared to the mac or PC in my opinion. Christopher Hallsworth On 23/10/2012 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly apppreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Chris, can you give more detail about your thoughts below, please. What do you want to do so often that the iPhone is not suitable for doing? I personally love Skype on the phone as it is pretty clutter free and makes it so portable so lazing on the settee as you talk is my thing! Carol P -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 24 October 2012 13:07 To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Well, I have both a Windows 7 64 bit laptop and a Macbook Pro 2012 model. I like them both, and switch to them on a daily basis. I am on my laptop more recently because what has been new in the Windows world over the last week. But say I go on Skype tonight I will switch over to my mac because I love Skype for this platform. I use both computers for recreational purposes only. I also have an iPhone 4, but certainly do not use it as a computer and never wil. They are just not on par compared to the mac or PC in my opinion. Christopher Hallsworth On 23/10/2012 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: > > > > > I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going > exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main > computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download > books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't > have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give > me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly > apppreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and > Seeing Eye dog Wilda > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Neil, I'm very interested in how you manage complex word processing on the Mac. By complex I mean with comments from multiple users and track changes as I found I couldn't manage this with Pages. I am a professional writer and my editor uses ms word exclusively for marking up manuscripts and since Office for Mac is not accessible (orwasn't a few years ago), the inability to do this kind of editing among users was the main stumbling block when I was interested in transitioning to Mac. Thanks, Kimber On 10/24/12, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > Ron, > > I employ, rather than am employed some 10,000 people across the four > businesses I own. I use Mac Exclusively, and we operate in a highly > technical industry. > > I currently run four businesses and am working towards starting another two > right now. > > All this talk of complex word processing etc, its just unquantified, and a > little to wishy washy for my liking. > > I work with complex 50+ page documents, with tabbed numbering, auto > adjusting paragraphs, track changes etc. These documents move between MS > Word and Apple Pages without problem for me. > > Can someone quantify for me with real examples as to how word processing has > issues on the Mac? > > Especially when referring to use between the latest MS Word build and the > latest Apple Pages build. > > Please do not compare something like Word with Text, or something like that, > as you're comparing the wrong things which would be unfair. > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 24 Oct 2012, at 00:31, Ron Pelletier wrote: > >> Hi Neil, >> >> Totally agree with you with the Apple experience vs PC and JAWS if you are >> a >> home user but it doesn't work that way yet in the office world. Chances >> are that if you are employed, you will still need to put up with the JAWS >> experience. >> >> Ron & Danvers >> >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad >> >> I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and >> Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in >> 2010, >> and haven't looked back at all! >> >> The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most >> of >> all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate >> relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over >> and >> over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so >> until >> I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product >> cost >> me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being >> dependant >> on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. >> >> Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Neil Barnfather >> >> Talks List Administrator >> Twitter @neilbarnfather >> >> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple >> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your >> accessible >> phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >> >> URL: - www.talknav.com >> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >> >> On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going >> exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main >> computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download >> books >> from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US >> port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback >> and >> let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions >> or >> comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You rec
RE: Mac verses Ipad
I think that's a very valid point, Cheryl. Thanks for sharing. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ann Homiak Sent: 24 October 2012 01:00 To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Mac verses Ipad I don't think anything needs to be out of the running. I primarily use my Mac with my iPhone a close second. Then comes my linux very close behind, and then Windows 7 with Windoweyes, System Access and occasionally the Jaws demo but my Windows system is just for fun or when all else fails. I had an iPad 1 and didn't use it enough so gave it to a friend. I liked it; i just found I didn't use it as much as I thought I would. But it doesn't mean i'll never use an iPad again. Each person needs to use the combination of equipment and software that works best for her/him and for most of us even that isn't static; I'm always re-evaluating what works best for me and my new braille display, even though it only has 18 cells, is changing the way I do things on the Mac and iphone a lot. No, nothing ever needs to be out of the running. -- Cheryl May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable to You, Lord, my rock and my Redeemer. (Psalm 19:14, HCSB) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Neil, When I mentioned, if you are working, I simply meant that the business world right now is still PC. Because you run your own businesses, you decided to go all Mac and that is great but, when you are employed, you have to go with what your employer goes with and, unless Neil Barnfather is your employer, statistics still show that you will be working with PC. In my experience, most people who have to work with one platform at work do not wish to re-learn a totally different platform at home. One way to go is more than enough for one person to handle. Over my 22 years of working with blind clients, I did not work with one person with one set of abilities and 1 disability. I worked with hundreds of blind, visually impaired and deaf blind people and I can assure you that the great majority of the people I have worked with have more than enough dealing with 1 platform. Only a very small percentage of people are power users like you seem to be. Still the majority of offices use Microsoft Office and, if you use that with JAWS or Window Eyes, you have enough commands and keystrokes to remember to last you for a lifetime without going into a totally different way of doing things. I am still in touch with many people who don't even want to go with an IPhone because they are afraid of learning a whole new way of doing things. Most of these people are still using their PC for computer work and do not even have a smart phone. They continue to use a regular cell phone to make all the calls they need to make and use a net book or small laptop for portability and that's OK too. Realistically speaking, if you have a computer at work and a computer at home and possibly a net book for occasional travel or taking notes at an occasional meeting, how many of us really need to have all that power on our belt or in our pocket. Its something which, in many cases, we have just talked ourselves into. Just my opinion Ron & Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 3:31 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Ron, I employ, rather than am employed some 10,000 people across the four businesses I own. I use Mac Exclusively, and we operate in a highly technical industry. I currently run four businesses and am working towards starting another two right now. All this talk of complex word processing etc, its just unquantified, and a little to wishy washy for my liking. I work with complex 50+ page documents, with tabbed numbering, auto adjusting paragraphs, track changes etc. These documents move between MS Word and Apple Pages without problem for me. Can someone quantify for me with real examples as to how word processing has issues on the Mac? Especially when referring to use between the latest MS Word build and the latest Apple Pages build. Please do not compare something like Word with Text, or something like that, as you're comparing the wrong things which would be unfair. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 00:31, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Hi Neil, > > Totally agree with you with the Apple experience vs PC and JAWS if you > are a home user but it doesn't work that way yet in the office world. > Chances are that if you are employed, you will still need to put up > with the JAWS experience. > > Ron & Danvers > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia > and Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to > Apple in 2010, and haven't looked back at all! > > The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and > most of all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love > hate relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, > over and over, and over again more, and probably would have continued > to do so until I was bleeding to death from all the money that > terribly flakey product cost me, and I, I was the hate part of the > relationship. I hated being dependant on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. > > Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. > > > > > Regards, &
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi, Once you have JAWS, the SMA is around $200 for the pro version and allows you 2 upgrades and they only come once a year. Of course, periodic updates every 2 or 3 months are free. I agree that the initial price is high but, keeping it up is not a major deal Ron & Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad I wonder if the $200 is actually for a JAWS upgrade or something. Christopher Hallsworth On 24/10/2012 10:58, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > Sieghard, > > You are correct that for accountancy purposes, even here Windows is the only option, we too use Sage, and for that I have to use Windows via Boot Camp. > > I am very interested to learn that JAWS 14 will support Windows 8 on day one, that is interesting very much to me. You say the days of waiting for OS support are over, sounds like they are, but, even Windows 7 took FS 6 months to support. So this is only a change in the last 2 years. > > $200 is Excellent, here in the UK our FS resellers gouge the heck out of us. With a premium license for JAWS costing £1200 around US$1900 and with the SMA costing £400 around US$700. > > I do accept that the none pro versions of JAWS are about 2/3 of these costs respectively. > > Never the less, for none US/Canadian clients of FS, we are all screwed by our local dealers. If Freedom Scientific could stimulate competition within the market by opening it up, i.e. I could buy from any dealer within the world. That would stimulate excellence in resale, promote competition and help promote cost equality. As it is right now, I cannot buy from a US or other dealer, even though it would save me half the money. > > Playing with a Mac in a store is never a good idea from the blind point of view, buy one and take it home, it wouldn't work for your accountancy needs, but, you can run boot camp etc. > > With Mac you can operate Voice Over in several ways, one, that gets little press is Quick Nav, Quick Nav allows for one handed access to your Mac. The maximum key presses are two at a time. > > I once said that using a Mac was like being an octopus, owing to the amount of keys you had to use, but that is with their traditional keyboard interface, you can use numberpad commander, quick nav, and also track pad commander, which is like using an iPhone etc. > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an > Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all > your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit > www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 24 Oct 2012, at 09:28, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > >> Hello Neil, >> >> Disagreeing and discussing this topic is of course good and >> stimulating. I don't own multi-national businesses with thousands of >> employees, but I do own a retail business with 4 or 5 employees and >> maybe I could make a Mac work for me if I really wanted. I am on my >> computer all day long both for work and for play/recreation/keeping >> in touch with friends and family and having been a Jaws user since >> 1989 to me it's maybe all about what I feel comfortable with and >> about muscle memory. It is of course also about the applications I >> use, my point of sale solution is Microsoft Retail Management >> Solution which is one of their Dynamics products, I am using Sage >> Simply Accounting which as of this upcoming version is being renamed to Sage 50 as my accounting program and I do all my bookkeeping, payroll, tax filing etc. >> Then of course there is Outlook which I use as my mail client along >> with my Office 365 subscription which gives me full hosted exchange. >> We also scan and electronically file all invoices and most paperwork >> for which I use Nuance Paperport and I use Excel every day as I get >> many order forms from companies in Excel format. Lastly I do of >> course use the Internet extensively. I realize the Apple also has a >> point of sale solution for retailers, I am sure there are probably >> accounting packages out there although here in Canada Sage Simply >> Accounting is very widely used because it has all the tax tables for >> calculating the payroll deductions (Employment Insurance, Canada >> Pension Plan and Federal Income tax) which I have to submit to the >> government each month and I am not aware that they have a Mac >> version. Anyhow, as I said, I'm sure it's all doa
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Hi. I just had to reply to this although my experience of I pads is what I saw in US and one look of I pad 3. I have no thoughts on this subject as each to his own or her own. I personally love my I phone and use it more than my Mac although I am at work all the time. Here at work, I have to use windows, jaws and megadots. However at home, I use my Mac exclusively accept when needing to scan and then it's windows 7. However, I am liking safari more and more since it has been improved. I personally hate all window lap tops as this is what I like, portible notebooks. As window lap tops are ugly and Mac book pros are lovely to the touch although I am not mad on any platform. I recently acquired a braille note apex for work, and do you know what? I hate using it with my I phone even though it has a 32 braille display. Give me Essys any time with my I phone. Kawal. On Oct 24, 2012, at 2:03 PM, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Hi Neil, > > When I mentioned, if you are working, I simply meant that the business world > right now is still PC. Because you run your own businesses, you decided to > go all Mac and that is great but, when you are employed, you have to go with > what your employer goes with and, unless Neil Barnfather is your employer, > statistics still show that you will be working with PC. In my experience, > most people who have to work with one platform at work do not wish to > re-learn a totally different platform at home. One way to go is more than > enough for one person to handle. Over my 22 years of working with blind > clients, I did not work with one person with one set of abilities and 1 > disability. I worked with hundreds of blind, visually impaired and deaf > blind people and I can assure you that the great majority of the people I > have worked with have more than enough dealing with 1 platform. Only a very > small percentage of people are power users like you seem to be. Still the > majority of offices use Microsoft Office and, if you use that with JAWS or > Window Eyes, you have enough commands and keystrokes to remember to last you > for a lifetime without going into a totally different way of doing things. > I am still in touch with many people who don't even want to go with an > IPhone because they are afraid of learning a whole new way of doing things. > Most of these people are still using their PC for computer work and do not > even have a smart phone. They continue to use a regular cell phone to make > all the calls they need to make and use a net book or small laptop for > portability and that's OK too. Realistically speaking, if you have a > computer at work and a computer at home and possibly a net book for > occasional travel or taking notes at an occasional meeting, how many of us > really need to have all that power on our belt or in our pocket. Its > something which, in many cases, we have just talked ourselves into. > > Just my opinion > > Ron > & Danvers > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 3:31 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > Ron, > > I employ, rather than am employed some 10,000 people across the four > businesses I own. I use Mac Exclusively, and we operate in a highly > technical industry. > > I currently run four businesses and am working towards starting another two > right now. > > All this talk of complex word processing etc, its just unquantified, and a > little to wishy washy for my liking. > > I work with complex 50+ page documents, with tabbed numbering, auto > adjusting paragraphs, track changes etc. These documents move between MS > Word and Apple Pages without problem for me. > > Can someone quantify for me with real examples as to how word processing has > issues on the Mac? > > Especially when referring to use between the latest MS Word build and the > latest Apple Pages build. > > Please do not compare something like Word with Text, or something like that, > as you're comparing the wrong things which would be unfair. > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 24 Oct 2012, at 00:31, Ron Pelletier wrote: > >> Hi Neil, >> >> Totally agree with you with the Apple experience vs PC and
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Carol P, I think it's my hearing impairment that puts me off using apps like Skype on the iPhone. Skype on the mac sounds very clear though. Perhaps if I used headphones or a headset this may change, but I am too lazy to use them with my iPhone, since I wear hearing aids most of the day anyway. Christopher Hallsworth On 24/10/2012 13:32, Carol Pearson wrote: Chris, can you give more detail about your thoughts below, please. What do you want to do so often that the iPhone is not suitable for doing? I personally love Skype on the phone as it is pretty clutter free and makes it so portable so lazing on the settee as you talk is my thing! Carol P -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 24 October 2012 13:07 To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Well, I have both a Windows 7 64 bit laptop and a Macbook Pro 2012 model. I like them both, and switch to them on a daily basis. I am on my laptop more recently because what has been new in the Windows world over the last week. But say I go on Skype tonight I will switch over to my mac because I love Skype for this platform. I use both computers for recreational purposes only. I also have an iPhone 4, but certainly do not use it as a computer and never wil. They are just not on par compared to the mac or PC in my opinion. Christopher Hallsworth On 23/10/2012 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would greatly apppreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
My experience with JAWS and Windows is different then yours. I too used JAWS with spread sheets, documents and presentations, both in MS Office and Symphony. I used Lotus Notes and Thunderbird for my email clients. I used both Firefox and IE as browsers and would also have double digit tabs opened in each. I used Lotus Sametime with often more than a dozen conversations up at any one time. I also used a slew of miscellaneous applications, like Teraterm, NoteTab and so on. I obviously can't say I didn't have problems, but for the most part it was rock solid. I typically just used suspend and hibernate during the week, and I would have to schedule time on the weekend to close everything up and do some routine system maintenance. Otherwise, the system and JAWS would run for weeks continuously with no problems. Obviously, this is just my personal anecdotal experience. I also don't remember waiting for Vista or Windows 7 support, but I didn't jump on those as soon as they were out either. On 24/10/12 02:49, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > Sieghard, > > You and I were bound to one day disagree… here it is: > > That shiny new PC laptop which you bought for half the money, well done, yes, > Apple products costs more, what you failed to highlight is how much JAWS then > cost you to put onto it… Even if you just look at the SMA costs, JAWS is > terribly expensive. I bought JAWS Pro in 1997 and paid the Pro SMA for years > there after, I've never been impressed with it, and until they do moe to keep > it in line with industry updates and work on reliability for new hardware > technologies etc JAWS is never a good choice for the power user… > > This business of power user, of course the term just means someone who knows > quite abit about the machine, the software and who uses it for around 8 hours > a day. > > I use my Mac for way more than that and did so with my Windows machines too. > > Then there's inclusive and consistency of updates. How long before FS will > decide that JAWS users may just wish to use Windows 8, or even dare to want > to try a Windows 8 tablet? I got so very fed up with FS telling me that JAWS > wouldn't support the latest Windows release for months, and often a year or > so. That is just beyond unacceptable. > > Both Lion and Mountain Lion were both fully accessible and usable by us on > day one, along with our sighted peers. oh, and how much did I pay for that > accessibility over my sighted peers, nothing. > > As someone who owns multinational businesses I need my computing solution to > work, be reliable, functional, up to date and effective. I use spread sheets > with formulae, multi page spread sheets. I use wordd processed docs with > track changes and other more advanced features, I live in mail and often have > 10 plus tabs open in the web-browser. > > My Mac just eats it all up, JAWS would have crashed hours ago and left me > stranded. > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 24 Oct 2012, at 03:38, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > >> Hi Kathy, >> >> I also really like my iPhone and it's amazing what you can do with it. >> However, don't make the mistake to just assume that a Mac is going to be >> just as awesome. You can't compare an iPhone to a Mac and while I am sure >> Mac lovers disagree, I firmly hold that a PC running Windows 7 with now Jaws >> 14 is a better solution if you are a power user. If all you do is write >> emails, do Skype, browse the web and so on a Mac with Voiceover maybe OK, >> but then again you can do that with just an iPhone or an iPad. I am not sure >> what you mean by "JAWS and internet explorer are driving me crazy with all >> the crashes etc.", to me that is such a generalised statement and while a PC >> can crash and while Jaws can sometimes become unresponsive, it's not like a >> Mac is immune to these things. If you do a lot of browsing I think Jaws, >> especially 14 with the new flexible web feature and all the things like >> navigation quick keys etc. will be more efficient and it's not as if you >> don't have choices regarding your browser, you can use IE, Firefox and >> Chrome and sometimes I use IE for one thing and Firefox for another thing >> because I discovered one works better than the other for certain >> applications. The nice thing is that Jaws features like navigation quick >> keys, placemarkers or the flexible web feature works regardless. >> >> I listened to the announcement today of the new MacBook laptops and while >> they sound like awesome computers, I can still buy a Windows laptop with the >> same specs (except maybe the weight and thicknes
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Chuck, You said you used a A to B switch box to switch the VGA signal from your Mac to PC. Since the Mac has a DVI output, how did you adapt the DVI to VGA? Thanks, Tim On 10/24/12, Chuck Dean wrote: > If you have a monitor, don't forget about the Mac mini. It's only about $600 > and is about the size of a Kleenex box. Works great! I am running both the > Mac Mini and my PC in conjunction into the same monitor using at VGA a b > switch. > With this set up, I can go back and forth between the Mac and PC as I learn > the voiceover on the Mac. I started doing this in January, and about 90% of > my work is now done on the Mac. I also have an iPad, but I don't think it > offers enough for my normal everyday computing I do quite a bit of web > design. > Chuck > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I think the problem with me is headsets do not like my flippy ears grin. I prefer headphones that mould around your ears. I mean the ones with a cup or mug shaped mould if you know what I mean. Christopher Hallsworth On 24/10/2012 18:48, Scott Davert wrote: Hi all. Wow, where to begin? Ron: I agree with you about working in the field. most users do not wish to keep learning new things and do not wish to keep up with technology. If what they have is functional, that's what a majority of the people I work with want. Chris H: yes, try a headset or headphones on your iPhone, you'll have a much better experience than the speaker phone. You may also want to try this for making traditional phone calls. I find this much more doable with a headset. I also use IPRelay from time to time, though I'm not a big fan and it's not yet always a necessity for me. Great discussion! Scott and my braille display Dottie. On 10/24/12, Christopher Chaltain wrote: My experience with JAWS and Windows is different then yours. I too used JAWS with spread sheets, documents and presentations, both in MS Office and Symphony. I used Lotus Notes and Thunderbird for my email clients. I used both Firefox and IE as browsers and would also have double digit tabs opened in each. I used Lotus Sametime with often more than a dozen conversations up at any one time. I also used a slew of miscellaneous applications, like Teraterm, NoteTab and so on. I obviously can't say I didn't have problems, but for the most part it was rock solid. I typically just used suspend and hibernate during the week, and I would have to schedule time on the weekend to close everything up and do some routine system maintenance. Otherwise, the system and JAWS would run for weeks continuously with no problems. Obviously, this is just my personal anecdotal experience. I also don't remember waiting for Vista or Windows 7 support, but I didn't jump on those as soon as they were out either. On 24/10/12 02:49, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: Sieghard, You and I were bound to one day disagree… here it is: That shiny new PC laptop which you bought for half the money, well done, yes, Apple products costs more, what you failed to highlight is how much JAWS then cost you to put onto it… Even if you just look at the SMA costs, JAWS is terribly expensive. I bought JAWS Pro in 1997 and paid the Pro SMA for years there after, I've never been impressed with it, and until they do moe to keep it in line with industry updates and work on reliability for new hardware technologies etc JAWS is never a good choice for the power user… This business of power user, of course the term just means someone who knows quite abit about the machine, the software and who uses it for around 8 hours a day. I use my Mac for way more than that and did so with my Windows machines too. Then there's inclusive and consistency of updates. How long before FS will decide that JAWS users may just wish to use Windows 8, or even dare to want to try a Windows 8 tablet? I got so very fed up with FS telling me that JAWS wouldn't support the latest Windows release for months, and often a year or so. That is just beyond unacceptable. Both Lion and Mountain Lion were both fully accessible and usable by us on day one, along with our sighted peers. oh, and how much did I pay for that accessibility over my sighted peers, nothing. As someone who owns multinational businesses I need my computing solution to work, be reliable, functional, up to date and effective. I use spread sheets with formulae, multi page spread sheets. I use wordd processed docs with track changes and other more advanced features, I live in mail and often have 10 plus tabs open in the web-browser. My Mac just eats it all up, JAWS would have crashed hours ago and left me stranded. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 03:38, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: Hi Kathy, I also really like my iPhone and it's amazing what you can do with it. However, don't make the mistake to just assume that a Mac is going to be just as awesome. You can't compare an iPhone to a Mac and while I am sure Mac lovers disagree, I firmly hold that a PC running Windows 7 with now Jaws 14 is a better solution if you are a power user. If all you do is write emails, do Skype, browse the web and so on a Mac with Voiceover maybe OK, but then again you can do that with just an iPhone or an iPad. I am not sure what you mean by "JAWS and internet explorer are driving me crazy with all the crashes etc.", to me that is such a generalised statement and while a PC can crash and while Jaws can sometimes become unresponsive, it's not like a M
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Yes, the Jaws upgrade for those in the US and Canada is $200 for two upgrades, or $100 per upgrade. Upgrades can come out once to twice per year, usually once per year. Wow, what a bargain. Windows upgrades are over $100 per upgrade, depending upon your flavour of Windows, and come out once every two to three years. Therefore, you have a total upgrade cost of around $100 per year. Mac OS10 releases a new upgrade about once per year. In that major upgrade, Voice-Over is automatically also upgraded. When minor Mac upgrades are released between the major releases, VO is also upgraded. The total cost per major upgrade is $30. Though the original Mac is more expensive, the upgrades are significantly cheaper. My last Windows PC was a Sony laptop with a 13" display that weighed 4 pounds. It had a dual-core Pentium 2.5 GhZ processor running 4 GB Ram. I could keep email, four or five MS Word documents, and three or four web pages in IE and/or FireFox all running at the same time before the system started falling apart. I had to reboot every day. My MacBook Air 11" weighs around 2 pounds, has 4 GB RAM. The processor is a Pentium 1.7 dual-core processor (I believe), so it should be less powerful than my older Sony. On it, I often have 10 web pages open, Preview reading four or five PDF files, Pages with one to three documents open, TextEdit with a couple documents open, Mail, and EndNote running to manage my references for Pages. With all of these open, I run iTunes occasionally to back up my iPhone. My MBA can run for days with all of this running and not need to be rebooted. My Sony was purchased in October, 2008, and cost $2500 just for the laptop. Sure, I could have gone with a less expensive laptop, but I did not want to lug something around with me to the three different clinics I was working at which weighed 7 pounds. Even a 4 pound machine, along with a Braille display, gets heavy. My MBA, on the other hand, cost me a total of $1700 including Apple's three-year total care warrantee. So, for $800 less, I got a machine which weighs half what my previous machine weighed, has the same memory, has a slightly less powerful processor, runs many more programs simultaneously, and with a three year complete worldwide warrantee. Oh, and that price also included the screen reader. A note about the service plans. My Sony came with a two year warrantee. The warrantee was only good in the US. When I moved to NZ, I was no longer covered. Also, the warrantee did not cover the power supply as this component was outside the laptop casing. I know because I had to replace my original power supply after a power surge fried it in January, 2009. For my MBA, the power supply stopped working last month. I took it to the local Apple store here in Wellington. Because I have the three-year service plan, the power supply was replaced by Apple for free. I purchased my MBA whilst visiting family in the US last year. The warrantee is worldwide and does cover everything. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 25/10/2012, at 2:18, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Hi, > > Once you have JAWS, the SMA is around $200 for the pro version and allows > you 2 upgrades and they only come once a year. Of course, periodic updates > every 2 or 3 months are free. I agree that the initial price is high but, > keeping it up is not a major deal > > Ron > & Danvers > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:38 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > I wonder if the $200 is actually for a JAWS upgrade or something. > > > Christopher Hallsworth > > On 24/10/2012 10:58, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >> Sieghard, >> >> You are correct that for accountancy purposes, even here Windows is the > only option, we too use Sage, and for that I have to use Windows via Boot > Camp. >> >> I am very interested to learn that JAWS 14 will support Windows 8 on day > one, that is interesting very much to me. You say the days of waiting for OS > support are over, sounds like they are, but, even Windows 7 took FS 6 months > to support. So this is only a change in the last 2 years. >> >> $200 is Excellent, here in the UK our FS resellers gouge the heck out of > us. With a premium license for JAWS costing £1200 around US$1900 and with > the SMA costing £400 around US$700. >> >> I do accept that the none pro versions of JAWS are about 2/3 of these > costs respectively. >> >> Never the less, for none US/Canadian clients of FS, we are all screwed by > our local dealers. If Freedom Scientific could stimulate competition within > the market by op
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Tim, You can buy a DVI to VGA converter at any computer/electronics store for probably about 5 Bucks. I've bought quite a few computers and monitors which came with one included. It's just a solid piece about an inch and a half long, it plugs onto the DVI port on your computer and you can usually screw it in like a normal cable, then on the other end is your typical femal VGA connector which you used to find on computers. Plug your VGA cable in, tighten the screws and that's it. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Mehok Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 11:06 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Chuck, You said you used a A to B switch box to switch the VGA signal from your Mac to PC. Since the Mac has a DVI output, how did you adapt the DVI to VGA? Thanks, Tim On 10/24/12, Chuck Dean wrote: > If you have a monitor, don't forget about the Mac mini. It's only > about $600 and is about the size of a Kleenex box. Works great! I am > running both the Mac Mini and my PC in conjunction into the same > monitor using at VGA a b switch. > With this set up, I can go back and forth between the Mac and PC as I > learn the voiceover on the Mac. I started doing this in January, and > about 90% of my work is now done on the Mac. I also have an iPad, but > I don't think it offers enough for my normal everyday computing I do > quite a bit of web design. > Chuck > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
the US last year. The warrantee is worldwide and > does cover everything. > > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > > On 25/10/2012, at 2:18, Ron Pelletier wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Once you have JAWS, the SMA is around $200 for the pro version and allows >> you 2 upgrades and they only come once a year. Of course, periodic updates >> every 2 or 3 months are free. I agree that the initial price is high but, >> keeping it up is not a major deal >> >> Ron >> & Danvers >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Chris >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:38 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad >> >> I wonder if the $200 is actually for a JAWS upgrade or something. >> >> >> Christopher Hallsworth >> >> On 24/10/2012 10:58, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >>> Sieghard, >>> >>> You are correct that for accountancy purposes, even here Windows is the >> only option, we too use Sage, and for that I have to use Windows via Boot >> Camp. >>> >>> I am very interested to learn that JAWS 14 will support Windows 8 on day >> one, that is interesting very much to me. You say the days of waiting for OS >> support are over, sounds like they are, but, even Windows 7 took FS 6 months >> to support. So this is only a change in the last 2 years. >>> >>> $200 is Excellent, here in the UK our FS resellers gouge the heck out of >> us. With a premium license for JAWS costing £1200 around US$1900 and with >> the SMA costing £400 around US$700. >>> >>> I do accept that the none pro versions of JAWS are about 2/3 of these >> costs respectively. >>> >>> Never the less, for none US/Canadian clients of FS, we are all screwed by >> our local dealers. If Freedom Scientific could stimulate competition within >> the market by opening it up, i.e. I could buy from any dealer within the >> world. That would stimulate excellence in resale, promote competition and >> help promote cost equality. As it is right now, I cannot buy from a US or >> other dealer, even though it would save me half the money. >>> >>> Playing with a Mac in a store is never a good idea from the blind point of >> view, buy one and take it home, it wouldn't work for your accountancy needs, >> but, you can run boot camp etc. >>> >>> With Mac you can operate Voice Over in several ways, one, that gets little >> press is Quick Nav, Quick Nav allows for one handed access to your Mac. The >> maximum key presses are two at a time. >>> >>> I once said that using a Mac was like being an octopus, owing to the >> amount of keys you had to use, but that is with their traditional keyboard >> interface, you can use numberpad commander, quick nav, and also track pad >> commander, which is like using an iPhone etc. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Neil Barnfather >>> >>> Talks List Administrator >>> Twitter @neilbarnfather >>> >>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an >>> Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all >>> your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit >>> www.talknav.com >>> >>> URL: - www.talknav.com >>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >>> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >>> >>> On 24 Oct 2012, at 09:28, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Neil, >>>> >>>> Disagreeing and discussing this topic is of course good and >>>> stimulating. I don't own multi-national businesses with thousands of >>>> employees, but I do own a retail business with 4 or 5 employees and >>>> maybe I could make a Mac work for me if I really wanted. I am on my >>>> computer all day long both for work and for play/recreation/keeping >>>> in touch with friends and family and having been a Jaws user since >>>> 1989 to me it's maybe all about what I feel comfortable with and >>>> about muscle memory. It is of course also about the applications I >>>> use, my point of sale solution is Microsoft Retail Management >>>> Solution which is one of their Dynamics products, I am using Sage >>>> Simply Accounting which as of this upcoming version is being renamed to >> Sage 50 as my ac
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi David, You can find a thousand people who have a thousand good and bad stories to tell about Windows, PC's and Macs. Yes, I have met plenty of people who bought a Mac and hated it. You can also buy any laptop and sometimes end up getting a lemon just like with any product. Just as you have your story with your Sony and your MackBook Pro, I am super impressed with my Acer TimeLineX Windows 7 laptop which I bought for $700 and I spend an extra just under $200 back last January to replace the 640 Gig hard drive with a 120 Gig Intel SSD. This is a 15.4 inch laptop, it's not as slim and light as a 15 inch MacBook Pro, but I also get close to 8 hours of battery life and it has a beautiful keyboard with numeric pad. Due to the SSD it boots Windows 7 in about 25 seconds, that's until Jaws is speaking in the log-on screen. I have no problems having iTunes open, my Sonos Controller, Outlook, several IE Windows, Skype in the background as well as 2 or 3 other of my business related applications like my point of sale, accounting software and Excel. Yes, I do pay $100 a y ear to be up-to-date with Jaws, but let's face it, I used Windows XP for 8 years and never paid a penny to get any updates, service 2 or service pack 3. More good news is that Microsoft seems to be adopting a completely new pricing structure for Windows 8 which I understand will cost something like $50, maybe a bit more for the Pro version. In any case, I will definitely put Windows 8 on one of my PC's to check it out, but as many businesses I have no reason to upgrade my Windows 7 business desktops probably for at least another 3 to 5 years, in fact, many larger companies still happily run Windows XP which recently celebrated its 10 year anniversary. Tell me if you can buy a new Mac now and install their OS from 10 years ago, it's my understanding that there is no way it will work and of course there is no reason to do so if you are buying a new Mac. But then again you won't find many large corporations and by that I mean really big where fifty thousand computers are deployed which all need to run some sort of legacy software and have to be backwards compatible. Don't get me wrong, I don't argue this way because I want to say Windows and PC's are better than OSX and Macs, but the fact is that if you compare Windows 7 and OSX both running on good hardware, both are excellent solutions and everybody has to decide what is best for him/her in their situation. Ron made a very good point and that is that if you are working for an employer whose IT infrastructure is all based on Windows and PC then that is what your reality is. Whether you prefer to stick with that on a personal level or use a Mac for personal use and deal with 2 very different systems that is up to everybody to decide. Regards, Sieghard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I agree with you Everything has there place. I use my mac book pro as windows at different times as well my iPhone. I've never owned an iPad but I would like have a look at the iPad mini Margaret Sent from my iPhone On 24/10/2012, at 11:55 PM, Carol Pearson wrote: > I think that's a very valid point, Cheryl. Thanks for sharing. > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Cheryl Ann Homiak > Sent: 24 October 2012 01:00 > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Mac verses Ipad > > I don't think anything needs to be out of the running. I primarily use my > Mac with my iPhone a close second. Then comes my linux very close behind, > and then Windows 7 with Windoweyes, System Access and occasionally the Jaws > demo but my Windows system is just for fun or when all else fails. I had an > iPad 1 and didn't use it enough so gave it to a friend. I liked it; i just > found I didn't use it as much as I thought I would. But it doesn't mean i'll > never use an iPad again. Each person needs to use the combination of > equipment and software that works best for her/him and for most of us even > that isn't static; I'm always re-evaluating what works best for me and my > new braille display, even though it only has 18 cells, is changing the way I > do things on the Mac and iphone a lot. No, nothing ever needs to be out of > the running. > > > -- > Cheryl > > May the words of my mouth > and the meditation of my heart > be acceptable to You, > Lord, my rock and my Redeemer. > (Psalm 19:14, HCSB) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
You are using a slightly spurious argument about businesses putting Windows XP on all their computers. Nobody can buy a new computer with Windows XP. What those companies do is utilise a Windows XP site license which permits them a specific number of Windows XP machines. If they remain legal, they do not load Windows XP on to any more machines than their site license allows. And, it is not possible to increase a Windows XP site license. That said, many companies automatically wipe the newly purchased computers and load Windows XP even though their license doesn't cover it. I've heard the claim that if they buy a computer with Windows on it, they have every right to change the version of Windows to a previous version, even if Microsoft no longer sells or supports it. I am unaware of any case law clarifying this one way or the other. Macs are the same. When you purchase a new mac, just like a new Windows PC, it is loaded with the latest version of OSX (within a version if close to the release date). Just as with Windows PCs, you can reformat and load an earlier version of Mac's OSX. This can go back as far as OSX Leopard, and possibly even OSX Tiger. Before that point, Mac OS 9 was a completely different operating system and does not support Pentium chip architecture. It would be akin to trying to run Windows 9 on a modern Windows PC. The drivers do not exist for many, if not most, modern components. Companies which use Macs tend to upgrade much more quickly than companies running Windows. The main reasons I have heard for this are: the upgrade cost is minimal, the new OS better supports the high-end graphics the company works with, and training staff to use the new OS is not very complicated because Apple tends to maintain underlying OS consistency whilst adding new features (since OSX, which was a complete change from OS 9). Windows, on the other hand, apparently requires significant retraining of staff whenever there is an OS upgrade. Many companies find the expense and loss of productivity to be too onerous to be worthwhile. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 25/10/2012, at 8:48, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi David, > > You can find a thousand people who have a thousand good and bad stories to > tell about Windows, PC's and Macs. Yes, I have met plenty of people who > bought a Mac and hated it. You can also buy any laptop and sometimes end up > getting a lemon just like with any product. Just as you have your story with > your Sony and your MackBook Pro, I am super impressed with my Acer TimeLineX > Windows 7 laptop which I bought for $700 and I spend an extra just under > $200 back last January to replace the 640 Gig hard drive with a 120 Gig > Intel SSD. This is a 15.4 inch laptop, it's not as slim and light as a 15 > inch MacBook Pro, but I also get close to 8 hours of battery life and it has > a beautiful keyboard with numeric pad. Due to the SSD it boots Windows 7 in > about 25 seconds, that's until Jaws is speaking in the log-on screen. I have > no problems having iTunes open, my Sonos Controller, Outlook, several IE > Windows, Skype in the background as well as 2 or 3 other of my business > related applications like my point of sale, accounting software and Excel. > > Yes, I do pay $100 a y ear to be up-to-date with Jaws, but let's face it, I > used Windows XP for 8 years and never paid a penny to get any updates, > service 2 or service pack 3. More good news is that Microsoft seems to be > adopting a completely new pricing structure for Windows 8 which I understand > will cost something like $50, maybe a bit more for the Pro version. In any > case, I will definitely put Windows 8 on one of my PC's to check it out, but > as many businesses I have no reason to upgrade my Windows 7 business > desktops probably for at least another 3 to 5 years, in fact, many larger > companies still happily run Windows XP which recently celebrated its 10 year > anniversary. Tell me if you can buy a new Mac now and install their OS from > 10 years ago, it's my understanding that there is no way it will work and of > course there is no reason to do so if you are buying a new Mac. But then > again you won't find many large corporations and by that I mean really big > where fifty thousand computers are deployed which all need to run some sort > of legacy software and have to be backwards compatible. > > Don't get me wrong, I don't argue this way because I want to say Windows and > PC's are better than OSX and Macs, but the fact is that if you compare > Windows 7 and OSX both running on good hardware, both are excellent > solutions and everybody has to decide what is best for him/her in their > situation. Ron made a very good point and that is that if you are working > for an employer whose IT infrastructure is all based on Windows and PC then > that is what your reality is. Whether you prefer to stick with that on a >
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Mary, I would not want to use a tablet full-time either; however, my point is that it could be done. THe level of efficiency is somewhat unknown. For example, could you use VueScan Mobile to connect to a scanner on the WIFI network and use something like prizmo to conduct the scan. Is it possible? Sure. Is it possible to use Pages? Sure. However, how effectively this can be done will depend. In any case I understand where you are coming from. On Oct 23, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Hi Scott, > I have a BT keyboard; I don't use pages. Too many reports of people losing > place, or I guess it is vo losing focus etc, and because I have a Mac and an > old PC, it wouldn't be worth it for me to put in the time to deal with Pages > on an I-device. But the scanning? With an I-device? No way. I want to be able > to do books, and can't imagine doing that with an i-device, even if the ocr > were a ton more reliable than it is right now. I imagine I'll end up putting > Windows on a Mac when my older pc finally gives up the ghost. But I can't > imagine giving up all computing devices other than an iPad or iPhone. At > least not for the foreseeable future. > > Mary > > Mary Otten > motte...@gmail.com > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Neil, I'm glad to have you point this out. Because some feel that the only way you can truly be productive is to use a PC and JAWS. That simply is not true and a lot of the comments are nebulous at best. This is not the list for discussing Macs, but I do believe it is necessary to point out that being "productive" is somewhat subjective. If you can accomplish your tasks then you are productive. What tools you use is irrelevant. On Oct 24, 2012, at 3:30 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > Ron, > > I employ, rather than am employed some 10,000 people across the four > businesses I own. I use Mac Exclusively, and we operate in a highly technical > industry. > > I currently run four businesses and am working towards starting another two > right now. > > All this talk of complex word processing etc, its just unquantified, and a > little to wishy washy for my liking. > > I work with complex 50+ page documents, with tabbed numbering, auto adjusting > paragraphs, track changes etc. These documents move between MS Word and Apple > Pages without problem for me. > > Can someone quantify for me with real examples as to how word processing has > issues on the Mac? > > Especially when referring to use between the latest MS Word build and the > latest Apple Pages build. > > Please do not compare something like Word with Text, or something like that, > as you're comparing the wrong things which would be unfair. > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple > iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible > phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > On 24 Oct 2012, at 00:31, Ron Pelletier wrote: > >> Hi Neil, >> >> Totally agree with you with the Apple experience vs PC and JAWS if you are a >> home user but it doesn't work that way yet in the office world. Chances >> are that if you are employed, you will still need to put up with the JAWS >> experience. >> >> Ron & Danvers >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:09 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad >> >> I cannot comment on your book point, but, will say that I was a Nokia and >> Widnwos PC user for donkey's years, moved over exclusively to Apple in 2010, >> and haven't looked back at all! >> >> The Voice Over experience is reliable, consistent, user friendly and most of >> all a joy to use. I always felt that JAWS and I lived a love hate >> relationship together, Freedom Scientific loved to screw me over, over and >> over, and over again more, and probably would have continued to do so until >> I was bleeding to death from all the money that terribly flakey product cost >> me, and I, I was the hate part of the relationship. I hated being dependant >> on something which caused me stress, anxiety and misery. >> >> Apple's products do what you want, without fuss and without hassle. >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Neil Barnfather >> >> Talks List Administrator >> Twitter @neilbarnfather >> >> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple >> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible >> phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >> >> URL: - www.talknav.com >> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >> >> On 23 Oct 2012, at 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going >> exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main >> computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to download books >> from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad doesn't have a US >> port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody could give me feedback and >> let me know their experiences I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or >> comments. Thanks in advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >>
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Neil, I guess you've got a captive audience. I too would like to know how you're managing the advanced editing I and others have mentioned. I don't mean multiple tabs and adjustable paragraph positions. I mean working with document layouts, reference content, charts, document merge, and formulas, to name a few. Even a good breakdown of how you're managing collaboration through track changes and comments would be nice. No one is doubting the ability to accomplish some or most of these tasks on a Mac as a sighted person. It's the ease/capacity to do it with Voiceover that people are pointing out. I'm all ears to learn how you're making it happen in hopes of reconsidering my position on Mac versus PC. As to other folks' comments about a terrible experience with JAWS and PCs, remember that the beauty and curse of a PC is the wide range of choices. Older systems with less than adequate specs are lightly to cause problems all around. Too many people pay less for systems and expect them to sing like their more expensive counterparts. The simple difference between a spinning drive and a solid state drive is like night and day. It really does make a huge difference on application performance. I'm no JAWS apologist. I've ramrodded Freedom Scientific in times past, but their product has gotten enormously better, as is true of Window Eyes. I like the community development of things like NVDA. So far as I know, and I'm really hoping to be wrong about this, Voiceover is primarly an Apple product with little to no enhancements from the community of consumers. I don't much care for the garden argument people leverage against Apple. They know enough consumers will be perfectly happy behind that wall, but let's not minimize anyone's positive remarks about the PC as misguided or appalling. Facts versus facts win the day for the informed consumer, and the fact is that, for the moment, the PC still runs the business industry. I work for the feds, and although iPads have begun filtering into our inventory, PCs are going to be around for a while, for them and the thousands of companies that contract with them. Joe -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 3:49 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Sieghard, You and I were bound to one day disagree. here it is: That shiny new PC laptop which you bought for half the money, well done, yes, Apple products costs more, what you failed to highlight is how much JAWS then cost you to put onto it. Even if you just look at the SMA costs, JAWS is terribly expensive. I bought JAWS Pro in 1997 and paid the Pro SMA for years there after, I've never been impressed with it, and until they do moe to keep it in line with industry updates and work on reliability for new hardware technologies etc JAWS is never a good choice for the power user. This business of power user, of course the term just means someone who knows quite abit about the machine, the software and who uses it for around 8 hours a day. I use my Mac for way more than that and did so with my Windows machines too. Then there's inclusive and consistency of updates. How long before FS will decide that JAWS users may just wish to use Windows 8, or even dare to want to try a Windows 8 tablet? I got so very fed up with FS telling me that JAWS wouldn't support the latest Windows release for months, and often a year or so. That is just beyond unacceptable. Both Lion and Mountain Lion were both fully accessible and usable by us on day one, along with our sighted peers. oh, and how much did I pay for that accessibility over my sighted peers, nothing. As someone who owns multinational businesses I need my computing solution to work, be reliable, functional, up to date and effective. I use spread sheets with formulae, multi page spread sheets. I use wordd processed docs with track changes and other more advanced features, I live in mail and often have 10 plus tabs open in the web-browser. My Mac just eats it all up, JAWS would have crashed hours ago and left me stranded. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 24 Oct 2012, at 03:38, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi Kathy, > > I also really like my iPhone and it's amazing what you can do with it. > However, don't make the mistake to just assume that a Mac is going to > be just as awesome. You can't compare an iPhone to a Mac and while I > am sure Mac lovers disagree, I firmly hold that a PC runn
Re: Mac verses Ipad
The arguments below between consistency and Ms's change for changes sake; I was a tech of "Windows systems in an educational environment and this was ever the case. I always said - MS are going to shoot themselves in the foot fatally one of these days; and Windows 8 might be that final shot. I had got to the point where MS was pretty well unsupportable by me, and the assistent did all the work, so when a layoff package was offered, I was glad to take it. I'm old enough to have got my occupational pension too, all be it a bit early. so now i'm doing for Apple things, that which I never got training to do, at work. As a tech, all I had to do was fiddle with it long enough, but it pre-supposes one has it there to fiddle with, but another guy gathered all the Apples unto himself. So yes, I'll be a full time Mac user at some point, just have to motivate to drag the Mini on this desk and push the old XP biscuit tin aside. R! - Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:21 AM Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad You are using a slightly spurious argument about businesses putting Windows XP on all their computers. Nobody can buy a new computer with Windows XP. What those companies do is utilise a Windows XP site license which permits them a specific number of Windows XP machines. If they remain legal, they do not load Windows XP on to any more machines than their site license allows. And, it is not possible to increase a Windows XP site license. That said, many companies automatically wipe the newly purchased computers and load Windows XP even though their license doesn't cover it. I've heard the claim that if they buy a computer with Windows on it, they have every right to change the version of Windows to a previous version, even if Microsoft no longer sells or supports it. I am unaware of any case law clarifying this one way or the other. Macs are the same. When you purchase a new mac, just like a new Windows PC, it is loaded with the latest version of OSX (within a version if close to the release date). Just as with Windows PCs, you can reformat and load an earlier version of Mac's OSX. This can go back as far as OSX Leopard, and possibly even OSX Tiger. Before that point, Mac OS 9 was a completely different operating system and does not support Pentium chip architecture. It would be akin to trying to run Windows 9 on a modern Windows PC. The drivers do not exist for many, if not most, modern components. Companies which use Macs tend to upgrade much more quickly than companies running Windows. The main reasons I have heard for this are: the upgrade cost is minimal, the new OS better supports the high-end graphics the company works with, and training staff to use the new OS is not very complicated because Apple tends to maintain underlying OS consistency whilst adding new features (since OSX, which was a complete change from OS 9). Windows, on the other hand, apparently requires significant retraining of staff whenever there is an OS upgrade. Many companies find the expense and loss of productivity to be too onerous to be worthwhile. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 25/10/2012, at 8:48, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi David, > > You can find a thousand people who have a thousand good and bad stories to > tell about Windows, PC's and Macs. Yes, I have met plenty of people who > bought a Mac and hated it. You can also buy any laptop and sometimes end > up > getting a lemon just like with any product. Just as you have your story > with > your Sony and your MackBook Pro, I am super impressed with my Acer > TimeLineX > Windows 7 laptop which I bought for $700 and I spend an extra just under > $200 back last January to replace the 640 Gig hard drive with a 120 Gig > Intel SSD. This is a 15.4 inch laptop, it's not as slim and light as a 15 > inch MacBook Pro, but I also get close to 8 hours of battery life and it > has > a beautiful keyboard with numeric pad. Due to the SSD it boots Windows 7 > in > about 25 seconds, that's until Jaws is speaking in the log-on screen. I > have > no problems having iTunes open, my Sonos Controller, Outlook, several IE > Windows, Skype in the background as well as 2 or 3 other of my business > related applications like my point of sale, accounting software and Excel. > > Yes, I do pay $100 a y ear to be up-to-date with Jaws, but let's face it, > I > used Windows XP for 8 years and never paid a penny to get any updates, > service 2 or service pack 3. More good news is that Microsoft seems to be > adopting a completely new pricing structure for Windows 8 which I > understand > will cost something like $50, maybe a bit more for the Pro version. In any >
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Skype on windows is crap, well it was when I last used it. Skype on the Mac is great. No scrips from jaws which used to crash every time. Kawal. On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:48 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi David, > > You can find a thousand people who have a thousand good and bad stories to > tell about Windows, PC's and Macs. Yes, I have met plenty of people who > bought a Mac and hated it. You can also buy any laptop and sometimes end up > getting a lemon just like with any product. Just as you have your story with > your Sony and your MackBook Pro, I am super impressed with my Acer TimeLineX > Windows 7 laptop which I bought for $700 and I spend an extra just under > $200 back last January to replace the 640 Gig hard drive with a 120 Gig > Intel SSD. This is a 15.4 inch laptop, it's not as slim and light as a 15 > inch MacBook Pro, but I also get close to 8 hours of battery life and it has > a beautiful keyboard with numeric pad. Due to the SSD it boots Windows 7 in > about 25 seconds, that's until Jaws is speaking in the log-on screen. I have > no problems having iTunes open, my Sonos Controller, Outlook, several IE > Windows, Skype in the background as well as 2 or 3 other of my business > related applications like my point of sale, accounting software and Excel. > > Yes, I do pay $100 a y ear to be up-to-date with Jaws, but let's face it, I > used Windows XP for 8 years and never paid a penny to get any updates, > service 2 or service pack 3. More good news is that Microsoft seems to be > adopting a completely new pricing structure for Windows 8 which I understand > will cost something like $50, maybe a bit more for the Pro version. In any > case, I will definitely put Windows 8 on one of my PC's to check it out, but > as many businesses I have no reason to upgrade my Windows 7 business > desktops probably for at least another 3 to 5 years, in fact, many larger > companies still happily run Windows XP which recently celebrated its 10 year > anniversary. Tell me if you can buy a new Mac now and install their OS from > 10 years ago, it's my understanding that there is no way it will work and of > course there is no reason to do so if you are buying a new Mac. But then > again you won't find many large corporations and by that I mean really big > where fifty thousand computers are deployed which all need to run some sort > of legacy software and have to be backwards compatible. > > Don't get me wrong, I don't argue this way because I want to say Windows and > PC's are better than OSX and Macs, but the fact is that if you compare > Windows 7 and OSX both running on good hardware, both are excellent > solutions and everybody has to decide what is best for him/her in their > situation. Ron made a very good point and that is that if you are working > for an employer whose IT infrastructure is all based on Windows and PC then > that is what your reality is. Whether you prefer to stick with that on a > personal level or use a Mac for personal use and deal with 2 very different > systems that is up to everybody to decide. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
I do understand, Chris, and at least you have some choice. I love Skype on the Iphone, but I don't use earphones a lot but do with Skype. Carol P -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 24 October 2012 16:41 To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Carol P, I think it's my hearing impairment that puts me off using apps like Skype on the iPhone. Skype on the mac sounds very clear though. Perhaps if I used headphones or a headset this may change, but I am too lazy to use them with my iPhone, since I wear hearing aids most of the day anyway. Christopher Hallsworth On 24/10/2012 13:32, Carol Pearson wrote: > Chris, can you give more detail about your thoughts below, please. > What do you want to do so often that the iPhone is not suitable for doing? > I personally love Skype on the phone as it is pretty clutter free and > makes it so portable so lazing on the settee as you talk is my thing! > > Carol P > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: 24 October 2012 13:07 > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > Well, I have both a Windows 7 64 bit laptop and a Macbook Pro 2012 > model. I like them both, and switch to them on a daily basis. I am on > my laptop more recently because what has been new in the Windows world over the last week. > But say I go on Skype tonight I will switch over to my mac because I > love Skype for this platform. I use both computers for recreational > purposes only. I also have an iPhone 4, but certainly do not use it as > a computer and never wil. They are just not on par compared to the mac or PC in my opinion. > > > Christopher Hallsworth > > On 23/10/2012 20:43, Kathy and Wilda wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I have been a PC Jaws user for many years and I'm thinking of going >> exclusively Apple. First do any of you just use the Ipad as your main >> computer and if so what are the pros and cons? Also I like to >> download books from Bookshare to my Victor stream and I know the Ipad >> doesn't have a US port.Is there a work around for that? If anybody >> could give me feedback and let me know their experiences I would >> greatly apppreciate any suggestions or comments. Thanks in >> advance.Kathy and Seeing Eye dog Wilda >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Kawal, That is another blanket statement which is neither true nor has it ever been so. I have been using Skype for Windows since 2005 along with the Jaws scripts Doug Lee so generously makes available at no cost. I remember especially in those early years when a friend who had a Mac was always jealous because the Skype for Mac product was usually a couple of versions behind in terms of features although I assume that is maybe no longer the case. However, even last year a friend in Germany told me it was difficult to answer and hang up Skype calls on his Mac because there was no way to configure any shortcut keys for this. I found him a script for this or whatever those things are called on a Mac. He also told me you can't just dial a phone number on a website simply by pressing enter on it as you can in Windows browsers like IE or Firefox. Keep in mind that Skype has been a Microsoft product for the last year or so and while they of course want as many people as possible to use Skype, there will be a lot more integration down the road with their products and services such as Office/Outlook, Hotmail/Outlook.com and Office 365. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:03 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Skype on windows is crap, well it was when I last used it. Skype on the Mac is great. No scrips from jaws which used to crash every time. Kawal. On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:48 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi David, > > You can find a thousand people who have a thousand good and bad > stories to tell about Windows, PC's and Macs. Yes, I have met plenty > of people who bought a Mac and hated it. You can also buy any laptop > and sometimes end up getting a lemon just like with any product. Just > as you have your story with your Sony and your MackBook Pro, I am > super impressed with my Acer TimeLineX Windows 7 laptop which I bought > for $700 and I spend an extra just under > $200 back last January to replace the 640 Gig hard drive with a 120 > Gig Intel SSD. This is a 15.4 inch laptop, it's not as slim and light > as a 15 inch MacBook Pro, but I also get close to 8 hours of battery > life and it has a beautiful keyboard with numeric pad. Due to the SSD > it boots Windows 7 in about 25 seconds, that's until Jaws is speaking > in the log-on screen. I have no problems having iTunes open, my Sonos > Controller, Outlook, several IE Windows, Skype in the background as > well as 2 or 3 other of my business related applications like my point of sale, accounting software and Excel. > > Yes, I do pay $100 a y ear to be up-to-date with Jaws, but let's face > it, I used Windows XP for 8 years and never paid a penny to get any > updates, service 2 or service pack 3. More good news is that Microsoft > seems to be adopting a completely new pricing structure for Windows 8 > which I understand will cost something like $50, maybe a bit more for > the Pro version. In any case, I will definitely put Windows 8 on one > of my PC's to check it out, but as many businesses I have no reason to > upgrade my Windows 7 business desktops probably for at least another 3 > to 5 years, in fact, many larger companies still happily run Windows > XP which recently celebrated its 10 year anniversary. Tell me if you > can buy a new Mac now and install their OS from > 10 years ago, it's my understanding that there is no way it will work > and of course there is no reason to do so if you are buying a new Mac. > But then again you won't find many large corporations and by that I > mean really big where fifty thousand computers are deployed which all > need to run some sort of legacy software and have to be backwards compatible. > > Don't get me wrong, I don't argue this way because I want to say > Windows and PC's are better than OSX and Macs, but the fact is that if > you compare Windows 7 and OSX both running on good hardware, both are > excellent solutions and everybody has to decide what is best for > him/her in their situation. Ron made a very good point and that is > that if you are working for an employer whose IT infrastructure is all > based on Windows and PC then that is what your reality is. Whether you > prefer to stick with that on a personal level or use a Mac for > personal use and deal with 2 very different systems that is up to everybody to decide. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send em
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Well Seigard, We have to differ. Skype has come a long way on the Mac as there is a key to hang up calls. You can also answer calls these days with ease and more. I remember using jaws with Skype, and would experience the following on a daily basis. When trying to use Skype with jaws, my windows would frequently crash, lose speech, so had to reboot by forcing the system to shut down. At times, jaws would be sluggish. May be these days jaws is stable but I'd not touch it with Skype and for that matter, Itunes was another thing I'd never touch again with jaws. However, Skype is great on the I phone. Kawal. On Oct 25, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi Kawal, > > That is another blanket statement which is neither true nor has it ever been > so. I have been using Skype for Windows since 2005 along with the Jaws > scripts Doug Lee so generously makes available at no cost. > > I remember especially in those early years when a friend who had a Mac was > always jealous because the Skype for Mac product was usually a couple of > versions behind in terms of features although I assume that is maybe no > longer the case. However, even last year a friend in Germany told me it was > difficult to answer and hang up Skype calls on his Mac because there was no > way to configure any shortcut keys for this. I found him a script for this > or whatever those things are called on a Mac. He also told me you can't just > dial a phone number on a website simply by pressing enter on it as you can > in Windows browsers like IE or Firefox. > > Keep in mind that Skype has been a Microsoft product for the last year or so > and while they of course want as many people as possible to use Skype, there > will be a lot more integration down the road with their products and > services such as Office/Outlook, Hotmail/Outlook.com and Office 365. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Kawal Gucukoglu > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:03 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > Skype on windows is crap, well it was when I last used it. Skype on the Mac > is great. No scrips from jaws which used to crash every time. > > Kawal. > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:48 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > >> Hi David, >> >> You can find a thousand people who have a thousand good and bad >> stories to tell about Windows, PC's and Macs. Yes, I have met plenty >> of people who bought a Mac and hated it. You can also buy any laptop >> and sometimes end up getting a lemon just like with any product. Just >> as you have your story with your Sony and your MackBook Pro, I am >> super impressed with my Acer TimeLineX Windows 7 laptop which I bought >> for $700 and I spend an extra just under >> $200 back last January to replace the 640 Gig hard drive with a 120 >> Gig Intel SSD. This is a 15.4 inch laptop, it's not as slim and light >> as a 15 inch MacBook Pro, but I also get close to 8 hours of battery >> life and it has a beautiful keyboard with numeric pad. Due to the SSD >> it boots Windows 7 in about 25 seconds, that's until Jaws is speaking >> in the log-on screen. I have no problems having iTunes open, my Sonos >> Controller, Outlook, several IE Windows, Skype in the background as >> well as 2 or 3 other of my business related applications like my point of > sale, accounting software and Excel. >> >> Yes, I do pay $100 a y ear to be up-to-date with Jaws, but let's face >> it, I used Windows XP for 8 years and never paid a penny to get any >> updates, service 2 or service pack 3. More good news is that Microsoft >> seems to be adopting a completely new pricing structure for Windows 8 >> which I understand will cost something like $50, maybe a bit more for >> the Pro version. In any case, I will definitely put Windows 8 on one >> of my PC's to check it out, but as many businesses I have no reason to >> upgrade my Windows 7 business desktops probably for at least another 3 >> to 5 years, in fact, many larger companies still happily run Windows >> XP which recently celebrated its 10 year anniversary. Tell me if you >> can buy a new Mac now and install their OS from >> 10 years ago, it's my understanding that there is no way it will work >> and of course there is no reason to do so if you are buying a new Mac. >> But then again you won't find many large corporations and by that I >> mean really big where fifty thousand computers are deployed which all >> need to run some sort of legacy software and have
RE: Mac verses Ipad
Kawal, It is not fare to make such statements based only on your experience. Were you using all the available tools? Do you remember that, before JAWS and such, there was no access to Skype at all. Do you remember that only a few years ago there was no real access to Apple at all. Before this last sprint of a few years ago, the only time I had some accessto Apple was back in the 80's using my Apple 2E and Street Electronics Echo synthesizer. After that, Apple was off the map as far as accessibility for many years during which we would have been up the creek without a paddle in a wire canoe had it not been for guys like Ted Henter , Dean Blazi and all the others who founded the companies who served us so well and continue to do so. Of course, the prices were high because the production was very limited and engineering time was expensive for such a limited market. During all these years, did you see any of the big boys like Microsoft or Apple come to our rescue? . I have been using Skype for many years and have not had any problems as long as I kept up with the scripts from Doug Lee. His scripts were always so easy to install and always kept up with the ever changing versions of Skype. Just because a lot of developers today are more sensitive to the needs of the blind, you have to remember the days when software companies could care less about us and Skype was one of the worse ones. Just because Apple in the past few years has been coming out with fantastic products is not a good reason to bash in any way the efforts made by others. Maybe you can't remember that far back but, Had it not been for companies like Freedom and GW Micro, thousands of blind and visually impaired people would have had no jobs. And, while we are talking about GW Micro, do you remember the series of "Talk" programs written by Doug Gioffrey in the early 80's? I set up and maintained my piano tuning business using his series of program written especially for us when there was no access at all to "off the shelf software". I would urge you and many other users to be kind to the people who got us to where we are and not make blanket statements without any foundation at all. Regards, Ron &Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 8:56 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad Well Seigard, We have to differ. Skype has come a long way on the Mac as there is a key to hang up calls. You can also answer calls these days with ease and more. I remember using jaws with Skype, and would experience the following on a daily basis. When trying to use Skype with jaws, my windows would frequently crash, lose speech, so had to reboot by forcing the system to shut down. At times, jaws would be sluggish. May be these days jaws is stable but I'd not touch it with Skype and for that matter, Itunes was another thing I'd never touch again with jaws. However, Skype is great on the I phone. Kawal. On Oct 25, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Hi Kawal, > > That is another blanket statement which is neither true nor has it > ever been so. I have been using Skype for Windows since 2005 along > with the Jaws scripts Doug Lee so generously makes available at no cost. > > I remember especially in those early years when a friend who had a Mac > was always jealous because the Skype for Mac product was usually a > couple of versions behind in terms of features although I assume that > is maybe no longer the case. However, even last year a friend in > Germany told me it was difficult to answer and hang up Skype calls on > his Mac because there was no way to configure any shortcut keys for > this. I found him a script for this or whatever those things are > called on a Mac. He also told me you can't just dial a phone number on > a website simply by pressing enter on it as you can in Windows browsers like IE or Firefox. > > Keep in mind that Skype has been a Microsoft product for the last year > or so and while they of course want as many people as possible to use > Skype, there will be a lot more integration down the road with their > products and services such as Office/Outlook, Hotmail/Outlook.com and Office 365. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:03 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > Skype on windows is crap, well it was when I last used it. Skype on > the Mac is great. No scrips from jaws which used to crash every time. > > Kawal. > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:48 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > >> Hi Davi
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Ron, Please don't exaggerate the inaccessibility of Apple computers before VoiceOver. For several years, and up to the arrival of OS X, we had OutSpoken for Mac. Everyone's experiences are different and none of us know the full story about accessibility to the various platforms. Cheers, Anne On 25 Oct 2012, at 16:55, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Kawal, > > It is not fare to make such statements based only on your experience. Were > you using all the available tools? Do you remember that, before JAWS and > such, there was no access to Skype at all. Do you remember that only a few > years ago there was no real access to Apple at all. Before this last sprint > of a few years ago, the only time I had some accessto Apple was back in > the 80's using my Apple 2E and Street Electronics Echo synthesizer. After > that, Apple was off the map as far as accessibility for many years during > which we would have been up the creek without a paddle in a wire canoe had > it not been for guys like Ted Henter , Dean Blazi and all the others who > founded the companies who served us so well and continue to do so. Of > course, the prices were high because the production was very limited and > engineering time was expensive for such a limited market. During all these > years, did you see any of the big boys like Microsoft or Apple come to our > rescue? . > > I have been using Skype for many years and have not had any problems as long > as I kept up with the scripts from Doug Lee. His scripts were always so > easy to install and always kept up with the ever changing versions of Skype. > Just because a lot of developers today are more sensitive to the needs of > the blind, you have to remember the days when software companies could care > less about us and Skype was one of the worse ones. > > Just because Apple in the past few years has been coming out with fantastic > products is not a good reason to bash in any way the efforts made by others. > Maybe you can't remember that far back but, Had it not been for companies > like Freedom and GW Micro, thousands of blind and visually impaired people > would have had no jobs. And, while we are talking about GW Micro, do you > remember the series of "Talk" programs written by Doug Gioffrey in the early > 80's? I set up and maintained my piano tuning business using his series of > program written especially for us when there was no access at all to "off > the shelf software". > > I would urge you and many other users to be kind to the people who got us to > where we are and not make blanket statements without any foundation at all. > > Regards, > > Ron > &Danvers -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Hi all. Let's all remember 2 things. 1. While a healthy debate is always welcome, let's remember to not flame anyone. 2. While discussions of Macs can be on topic here due to the cross platform of iOS, let's remember that if the discussion turns into just Mac and other non-iOS things, then it's better to move it to another list like MacVisionaries. Thanks. -- Raul A. Gallegos Needing someone is like needing a parachute. If he isn't there the first time you need him, chances are you won't be needing him again! ~ Anonymous Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rau47 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Mac verses Ipad
I remember having no access to computers at all. My first acquaintance with a computer was using word star as there was no jaws etc. When I first started working, I had to use word perfect 5.1 before I got to use jaws 2.2 or whatever it was. I grew up at school with no computers, just a perkins braille machine and an electric typewriter. Just for the record, I think I'm very lucky to have access to any kind of access technology as there are many people in the developing world who have no such thing. I am entitled to my opinions although they come over strong but I don't mean them too hence they can be interpreted the wrong way. I apologise if people have thought I have been unfair. Regards, Kawal. On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Kawal, > > It is not fare to make such statements based only on your experience. Were > you using all the available tools? Do you remember that, before JAWS and > such, there was no access to Skype at all. Do you remember that only a few > years ago there was no real access to Apple at all. Before this last sprint > of a few years ago, the only time I had some accessto Apple was back in > the 80's using my Apple 2E and Street Electronics Echo synthesizer. After > that, Apple was off the map as far as accessibility for many years during > which we would have been up the creek without a paddle in a wire canoe had > it not been for guys like Ted Henter , Dean Blazi and all the others who > founded the companies who served us so well and continue to do so. Of > course, the prices were high because the production was very limited and > engineering time was expensive for such a limited market. During all these > years, did you see any of the big boys like Microsoft or Apple come to our > rescue? . > > I have been using Skype for many years and have not had any problems as long > as I kept up with the scripts from Doug Lee. His scripts were always so > easy to install and always kept up with the ever changing versions of Skype. > Just because a lot of developers today are more sensitive to the needs of > the blind, you have to remember the days when software companies could care > less about us and Skype was one of the worse ones. > > Just because Apple in the past few years has been coming out with fantastic > products is not a good reason to bash in any way the efforts made by others. > Maybe you can't remember that far back but, Had it not been for companies > like Freedom and GW Micro, thousands of blind and visually impaired people > would have had no jobs. And, while we are talking about GW Micro, do you > remember the series of "Talk" programs written by Doug Gioffrey in the early > 80's? I set up and maintained my piano tuning business using his series of > program written especially for us when there was no access at all to "off > the shelf software". > > I would urge you and many other users to be kind to the people who got us to > where we are and not make blanket statements without any foundation at all. > > Regards, > > Ron > &Danvers > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Kawal Gucukoglu > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 8:56 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Mac verses Ipad > > Well Seigard, > > We have to differ. Skype has come a long way on the Mac as there is a key > to hang up calls. You can also answer calls these days with ease and more. > > I remember using jaws with Skype, and would experience the following on a > daily basis. When trying to use Skype with jaws, my windows would > frequently crash, lose speech, so had to reboot by forcing the system to > shut down. At times, jaws would be sluggish. > > May be these days jaws is stable but I'd not touch it with Skype and for > that matter, Itunes was another thing I'd never touch again with jaws. > However, Skype is great on the I phone. > > Kawal. > > On Oct 25, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > >> Hi Kawal, >> >> That is another blanket statement which is neither true nor has it >> ever been so. I have been using Skype for Windows since 2005 along >> with the Jaws scripts Doug Lee so generously makes available at no cost. >> >> I remember especially in those early years when a friend who had a Mac >> was always jealous because the Skype for Mac product was usually a >> couple of versions behind in terms of features although I assume that >> is maybe no longer the case. However, even last year a friend in >> Germany told me it was difficult to answer and hang up Skype calls on >> his Mac because there was no way
Re: Mac verses Ipad
Hi Tim, The Mac mini came with the VGA adaptor, which I didn't know at the time, so I bought one at the Apple store. I think it was $30. I have also got an A B switch for my large print, illuminated keyboard, so I can use it with both machines. Chuck On Oct 24, 11:05 am, Tim Mehok wrote: > Chuck, > > You said you used a A to B switch box to switch the VGA signal from > your Mac to PC. > Since the Mac has a DVI output, how did you adapt the DVI to VGA? > > Thanks, > > Tim > > On 10/24/12, Chuck Dean wrote: > > > > > > > > > If you have a monitor, don't forget about the Mac mini. It's only about $600 > > and is about the size of a Kleenex box. Works great! I am running both the > > Mac Mini and my PC in conjunction into the same monitor using at VGA a b > > switch. > > With this set up, I can go back and forth between the Mac and PC as I learn > > the voiceover on the Mac. I started doing this in January, and about 90% of > > my work is now done on the Mac. I also have an iPad, but I don't think it > > offers enough for my normal everyday computing I do quite a bit of web > > design. > > Chuck > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > > Group. > > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > >http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
