Re: One way Apple could better test its products
That's great. What did you to get him back? Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2014, at 6:03 PM, Rose Combs wrote: > > Alex came home, brain fart on my part. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Rose Combs > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 5:46 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > I put Seeing Assistant on my phone and light detector does work from there, > helps some, I don't know much about the other options but it is there. > > What happened to Alex? I was working along yesterday when I opened iTunes U > and Alex just stopped and Samantha started in. Weird. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:21 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > I hope you explained that Light Detector and Money Reader are not working on > your phone, that you know also they don't work on some other phones but that > they work just fine on many others. The same goes for some of the other > stuff you said. SIRI sends text messages for me just as good as always with > the slight exception that sometimes it cuts off and I have to tap on Send > instead of SIRI asking me to send it, but the actual part of dictating it > seems to work just fine for me on my 5S. > > I don't want to make light of the issues and bugs which exist in iOS 8, but > I think it's important that people realize how inconsistent some of this > stuff is. That in itself I think is one of the biggest bugs out there. If > Light Detector just didn't work for anybody then maybe the developer could > release an update and it would be fine, but it does work for many if not > most and only for some it seems to be a problem just as is the case with > money reader and even other apps which require access to the camera such as > Camfind. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Gary Petraccaro > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:10 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over > and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over > off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything > worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice > about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent > the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. > I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get > back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This > happened 4 times. > Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned > off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same > problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the > accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of > Light Detector and the money identifyer. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Brett" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Hi, > > Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of > beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on > this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle > had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work > has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. > > It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of > accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it > can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the > entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and > reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their > reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if > you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. > Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to > accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being > publically discussed after their last release. > > Being someone
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
Alex came home, brain fart on my part. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rose Combs Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 5:46 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products I put Seeing Assistant on my phone and light detector does work from there, helps some, I don't know much about the other options but it is there. What happened to Alex? I was working along yesterday when I opened iTunes U and Alex just stopped and Samantha started in. Weird. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:21 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products I hope you explained that Light Detector and Money Reader are not working on your phone, that you know also they don't work on some other phones but that they work just fine on many others. The same goes for some of the other stuff you said. SIRI sends text messages for me just as good as always with the slight exception that sometimes it cuts off and I have to tap on Send instead of SIRI asking me to send it, but the actual part of dictating it seems to work just fine for me on my 5S. I don't want to make light of the issues and bugs which exist in iOS 8, but I think it's important that people realize how inconsistent some of this stuff is. That in itself I think is one of the biggest bugs out there. If Light Detector just didn't work for anybody then maybe the developer could release an update and it would be fine, but it does work for many if not most and only for some it seems to be a problem just as is the case with money reader and even other apps which require access to the camera such as Camfind. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
I put Seeing Assistant on my phone and light detector does work from there, helps some, I don't know much about the other options but it is there. What happened to Alex? I was working along yesterday when I opened iTunes U and Alex just stopped and Samantha started in. Weird. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:21 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products I hope you explained that Light Detector and Money Reader are not working on your phone, that you know also they don't work on some other phones but that they work just fine on many others. The same goes for some of the other stuff you said. SIRI sends text messages for me just as good as always with the slight exception that sometimes it cuts off and I have to tap on Send instead of SIRI asking me to send it, but the actual part of dictating it seems to work just fine for me on my 5S. I don't want to make light of the issues and bugs which exist in iOS 8, but I think it's important that people realize how inconsistent some of this stuff is. That in itself I think is one of the biggest bugs out there. If Light Detector just didn't work for anybody then maybe the developer could release an update and it would be fine, but it does work for many if not most and only for some it seems to be a problem just as is the case with money reader and even other apps which require access to the camera such as Camfind. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned acce
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
No I have not said anything to Apple which is not directly happening or not happening as it were to me. I have said what phone I use and how much RAM and gone through the specifics of what I do and what results. I have no business speaking about anything I cannot confirm or at least witness. . - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:20 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products I hope you explained that Light Detector and Money Reader are not working on your phone, that you know also they don't work on some other phones but that they work just fine on many others. The same goes for some of the other stuff you said. SIRI sends text messages for me just as good as always with the slight exception that sometimes it cuts off and I have to tap on Send instead of SIRI asking me to send it, but the actual part of dictating it seems to work just fine for me on my 5S. I don't want to make light of the issues and bugs which exist in iOS 8, but I think it's important that people realize how inconsistent some of this stuff is. That in itself I think is one of the biggest bugs out there. If Light Detector just didn't work for anybody then maybe the developer could release an update and it would be fine, but it does work for many if not most and only for some it seems to be a problem just as is the case with money reader and even other apps which require access to the camera such as Camfind. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benef
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
I did speak with Apple today for the second time. As I have repetitions of particular issues I will email with those. So far it's the Voice Over interruptions, the inabilities to make calls and send text, and the nonworking shift key. The app problems aren't Apple's business according to them. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:19 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products Have you eMailed your tests and results to Apple so that they have some written documentation? If not, I would also do that. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Gary Petraccaro" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:09 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and the Speak-screen tool for low vision users, amongst numerous others. The problem is that these features are becoming less usable due to their buggy implementation. I wasn't going to comment on this and similar threads, because too many fan-boys are brainwashed by apples marketing campains and would defend Apple even if they took VoiceOver out of iOS9, Smile. We hear arguments that we are a minority and Apple don't make any money out of us, therefore we should be prepared to accept bugs and give Apple some leeway for poor quality control. But I bet that these people would not accept the minority argument they are putting forth, if they were denied entry in to a restaurant with their guide-dog, because they were a minority and most people would like to eat without a dog staring at them, slobbering and sheading hair everywh
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
That's why I'm thinking that this might take a while for them to track down and fix. The sporadic bugs are always the toughest. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:20 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products I hope you explained that Light Detector and Money Reader are not working on your phone, that you know also they don't work on some other phones but that they work just fine on many others. The same goes for some of the other stuff you said. SIRI sends text messages for me just as good as always with the slight exception that sometimes it cuts off and I have to tap on Send instead of SIRI asking me to send it, but the actual part of dictating it seems to work just fine for me on my 5S. I don't want to make light of the issues and bugs which exist in iOS 8, but I think it's important that people realize how inconsistent some of this stuff is. That in itself I think is one of the biggest bugs out there. If Light Detector just didn't work for anybody then maybe the developer could release an update and it would be fine, but it does work for many if not most and only for some it seems to be a problem just as is the case with money reader and even other apps which require access to the camera such as Camfind. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and th
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
I hope you explained that Light Detector and Money Reader are not working on your phone, that you know also they don't work on some other phones but that they work just fine on many others. The same goes for some of the other stuff you said. SIRI sends text messages for me just as good as always with the slight exception that sometimes it cuts off and I have to tap on Send instead of SIRI asking me to send it, but the actual part of dictating it seems to work just fine for me on my 5S. I don't want to make light of the issues and bugs which exist in iOS 8, but I think it's important that people realize how inconsistent some of this stuff is. That in itself I think is one of the biggest bugs out there. If Light Detector just didn't work for anybody then maybe the developer could release an update and it would be fine, but it does work for many if not most and only for some it seems to be a problem just as is the case with money reader and even other apps which require access to the camera such as Camfind. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and the Speak-screen tool for low vision users, amongst numerous others. The problem is that these features are becoming less usable due to their buggy implementation. I wasn't going to comment on this and similar threads, because too many fan-boys are brainwashed by apples marketing campains and would defend Apple even if they took VoiceOver out of iOS9, Smile. We hear arguments that we are a minority and Apple don't make any
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Have you eMailed your tests and results to Apple so that they have some written documentation? If not, I would also do that. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Gary Petraccaro" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:09 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and the Speak-screen tool for low vision users, amongst numerous others. The problem is that these features are becoming less usable due to their buggy implementation. I wasn't going to comment on this and similar threads, because too many fan-boys are brainwashed by apples marketing campains and would defend Apple even if they took VoiceOver out of iOS9, Smile. We hear arguments that we are a minority and Apple don't make any money out of us, therefore we should be prepared to accept bugs and give Apple some leeway for poor quality control. But I bet that these people would not accept the minority argument they are putting forth, if they were denied entry in to a restaurant with their guide-dog, because they were a minority and most people would like to eat without a dog staring at them, slobbering and sheading hair everywhere. Yes I am being a bit sarcastic here, but we haven't made the gains in society for minorities by passively sitting back and encouraging discrimination, which apple fan-people appear happy to do. So there's my 2C worth! I am not going to comment any further, as we are probably getting off-topic, but I will be watching with interest to see if quality control improves, since that's what their reputation is baced upon, or if we are seeing a slow demise where Goog
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
With an iPhone 5, I've just tried to send 10 text messages using Voice Over and Siri. Less than half went out successfully. When I turned Voice Over off and repeated the same experiment with a sighted watcher, everything worked the way it should. If I had just bought this phone and had no choice about whether to use IOS8.x, I would have returned that phone. I just spent the morning trying to change ringtones. The ringtone I wanted was number 8. I listened to 10 or so ringtones in the 20s and 30s. When I tried to get back to my original tone, I was kicked out to the home screen. This happened 4 times. Then I got a sighted friend to try to find the tone with Voice Over turned off and there was No problem. I tried it later with it enabled and the same problem again. This is not a workable set up. Yes, I have called the accessibility hotline and reported everything here plus the unusability of Light Detector and the money identifyer. - Original Message - From: "Brett" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 10:47 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and the Speak-screen tool for low vision users, amongst numerous others. The problem is that these features are becoming less usable due to their buggy implementation. I wasn't going to comment on this and similar threads, because too many fan-boys are brainwashed by apples marketing campains and would defend Apple even if they took VoiceOver out of iOS9, Smile. We hear arguments that we are a minority and Apple don't make any money out of us, therefore we should be prepared to accept bugs and give Apple some leeway for poor quality control. But I bet that these people would not accept the minority argument they are putting forth, if they were denied entry in to a restaurant with their guide-dog, because they were a minority and most people would like to eat without a dog staring at them, slobbering and sheading hair everywhere. Yes I am being a bit sarcastic here, but we haven't made the gains in society for minorities by passively sitting back and encouraging discrimination, which apple fan-people appear happy to do. So there's my 2C worth! I am not going to comment any further, as we are probably getting off-topic, but I will be watching with interest to see if quality control improves, since that's what their reputation is baced upon, or if we are seeing a slow demise where Google and Windows will see more prominence. Cheers, Brett. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:49 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer account fee. Anybody can s
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
My gentleman caught on quickly and never turned it off either, had questions for me which I answered and he was impressed with my answers. Only frustrated when I tried my late husband's phone and we could not figure out the password, I may know the answer but have been too busy with work and too tired to find out. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Regina Alvarado Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 8:43 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products I went to the Sprint store to get my 6. The gentleman who helped me knew how to not only turn on VO, but he never turned it off while loading my phone and wiping my 5s. I was very impressed! Not Apple, but ... reggie and Allegra On Sep 28, 2014, at 5:42 PM, connie mohney wrote: It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to use the iPhone after 1 day? > > I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM > Subject: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop rec
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
I went to the Sprint store to get my 6. The gentleman who helped me knew how to not only turn on VO, but he never turned it off while loading my phone and wiping my 5s. I was very impressed! Not Apple, but ... reggie and Allegra On Sep 28, 2014, at 5:42 PM, connie mohney wrote: It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to > use the iPhone after 1 day? > > I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who > take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. > I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in > using the devices than any of the other tech reps. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM > Subject: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using > VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft > touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard > shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I > think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities > should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are > other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I > bet it would work better for everyone as a result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
Nuff Said I agree At 07:47 PM 9/29/2014, you wrote: Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and the Speak-screen tool for low vision users, amongst numerous others. The problem is that these features are becoming less usable due to their buggy implementation. I wasn't going to comment on this and similar threads, because too many fan-boys are brainwashed by apples marketing campains and would defend Apple even if they took VoiceOver out of iOS9, Smile. We hear arguments that we are a minority and Apple don't make any money out of us, therefore we should be prepared to accept bugs and give Apple some leeway for poor quality control. But I bet that these people would not accept the minority argument they are putting forth, if they were denied entry in to a restaurant with their guide-dog, because they were a minority and most people would like to eat without a dog staring at them, slobbering and sheading hair everywhere. Yes I am being a bit sarcastic here, but we haven't made the gains in society for minorities by passively sitting back and encouraging discrimination, which apple fan-people appear happy to do. So there's my 2C worth! I am not going to comment any further, as we are probably getting off-topic, but I will be watching with interest to see if quality control improves, since that's what their reputation is baced upon, or if we are seeing a slow demise where Google and Windows will see more prominence. Cheers, Brett. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:49 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer account fee. Anybody can sign up and pay the fee and sign the NDA (non-disclosure agreement)" David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Sep 2014, at 19:29, RobH. wrote: > > I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be > requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it > all to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. > > Rh. > - Original Message ----- > From: "connie mohney" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. > The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The > employees from disability support could be asked to get people's > contact info so those people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >>
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
I have not read the NDA, so I do not actually know. Removal of access is the usual for this type of NDA. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 30 Sep 2014, at 07:44, Gary Petraccaro wrote: > > What are the penalties for breaking that agreement? > Thanks. > > - Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:49 AM > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > > The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer > account fee. Anybody can sign up and pay the fee and sign the NDA > (non-disclosure agreement)" > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 29 Sep 2014, at 19:29, RobH. wrote: >> >> I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be >> requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it all >> to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. >> >> Rh. >> - Original Message ----- From: "connie mohney" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM >> Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products >> >> >> It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The >> people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees >> from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those >> people could be IOS testers. >> Connie >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >>> wrote: >>> >>> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able >>> to use the iPhone after 1 day? >>> >>> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people >>> who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are >>> handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our >>> difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >>> >>> --- >>> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're >>> finished, you! really! are! finished! >>> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM >>> Subject: One way Apple could better test its products >>> >>> >>> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on >>> using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when >>> Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally >>> with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the >>> same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people >>> with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their >>> shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a >>> lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a >>> result. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>> for this list can be searched at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>> moderators
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
Hi, Yes, anyone can pay the fee, sign the NDA and participate. However, lack of beta testers doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a few beta testers on this list have said that bugs reported at the beginning of the beta cycle had not been addressed when iOS8 went live. Therefore, it seems their work has largely been ignored, or at least not given any kind of priority. It appears that since Jobsy died, there has been a shift in the priority of accessibility, specifically when it comes to quality control. Although it can also be argued that quality control has become an issue across the entire Apple echo-system since Jobsy died. Apple made its name and reputation by producing products and computers that "just worked". Their reputation for things that "Just work", now appears to be diminishing, if you look at the issues surrounding the last couple of Mac and iOS releases. Although Android and Windows aren't in the same ballpark when it comes to accessibility, we don't seem to see the same amount of issues being publically discussed after their last release. Being someone who works in the testing area, I am aware that projects are always constrained by timelines and budgets and a perfect release is a mith, but when the problems are beginning to damage your reputation, you need to way that risk against timelines and budgets and I think apple definitely got this one wrong and didn't learn from the Apple maps fiasco. While external beta testers are useful, the most is gained by internal testers who have a direct line in to the developers and the developers themselves undertaking quality assurance as part of the development cycle. Developers should be catching the significant bugs before they even reach the internal testers, let alone the external ones. It appears that Apple has now prioritized new features over stability and quality control, which is a divergence from their past operating model. I don't think that Apple has abandoned accessibility, as they continue to introduce new features that do benefit people, such as onboard braille and the Speak-screen tool for low vision users, amongst numerous others. The problem is that these features are becoming less usable due to their buggy implementation. I wasn't going to comment on this and similar threads, because too many fan-boys are brainwashed by apples marketing campains and would defend Apple even if they took VoiceOver out of iOS9, Smile. We hear arguments that we are a minority and Apple don't make any money out of us, therefore we should be prepared to accept bugs and give Apple some leeway for poor quality control. But I bet that these people would not accept the minority argument they are putting forth, if they were denied entry in to a restaurant with their guide-dog, because they were a minority and most people would like to eat without a dog staring at them, slobbering and sheading hair everywhere. Yes I am being a bit sarcastic here, but we haven't made the gains in society for minorities by passively sitting back and encouraging discrimination, which apple fan-people appear happy to do. So there's my 2C worth! I am not going to comment any further, as we are probably getting off-topic, but I will be watching with interest to see if quality control improves, since that's what their reputation is baced upon, or if we are seeing a slow demise where Google and Windows will see more prominence. Cheers, Brett. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:49 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer account fee. Anybody can sign up and pay the fee and sign the NDA (non-disclosure agreement)" David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Sep 2014, at 19:29, RobH. wrote: > > I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be > requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it > all to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. > > Rh. > - Original Message ----- > From: "connie mohney" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. > The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The > employees from disability support could be asked to get people's > contact info so those people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be now
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
What are the penalties for breaking that agreement? Thanks. - Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:49 AM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer account fee. Anybody can sign up and pay the fee and sign the NDA (non-disclosure agreement)" David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 29 Sep 2014, at 19:29, RobH. wrote: I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it all to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. Rh. - Original Message - From: "connie mohney" To: Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to use the iPhone after 1 day? I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: One way Apple could better test its products Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. Neal -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.c
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Again, it's not Could, it's Did. Nobody held a gun to Apple's head to be somewhere between inconsiderate and inept. - Original Message - From: "connie mohney" To: Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:42 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to use the iPhone after 1 day? I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: One way Apple could better test its products Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. Neal -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Ok, amazing, didn't know they charged for this; though it wouldn't do the signal to noise ratio any good for them. But for sure, they ought to get a good cross-section of end users testing it. OT: You wise adding real phone number on the end? we get plagued with spam calls here too. Rh. wonder what that is in ＃s. - Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 4:49 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer account fee. Anybody can sign up and pay the fee and sign the NDA (non-disclosure agreement)" David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Sep 2014, at 19:29, RobH. wrote: > > I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be > requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it all > to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. > > Rh. > - Original Message - > From: "connie mohney" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The > people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees > from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so > those > people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you >> able >> to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people >> who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are >> handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our >> difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're >> finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" >> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subject: One way Apple could better test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on >> using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when >> Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally >> with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the >> same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people >> with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their >> shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean >> a >> lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a >> result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >> for this list can be searched at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >> for this list can be searched at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
The only requirement to be a beta tester for iOS is 'a $99 per year developer account fee. Anybody can sign up and pay the fee and sign the NDA (non-disclosure agreement)" David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Sep 2014, at 19:29, RobH. wrote: > > I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be > requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it all > to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. > > Rh. > - Original Message - > From: "connie mohney" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The > people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees > from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those > people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able >> to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people >> who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are >> handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our >> difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're >> finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" >> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subject: One way Apple could better test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on >> using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when >> Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally >> with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the >> same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people >> with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their >> shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a >> lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a >> result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >> for this list can be searched at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >> for this list can be searched at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns a
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Be willing to train, then apply, you have to take something saleable to an interview; and no guarantee even then. - Original Message - From: "connie mohney" To: Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 11:15 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products Of course. The person with a disability would have to have knowledge about the products or be willing to be trained. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:03 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > Absolutely right. First, you have to be able to do the job, whatever it > is, regardless of your handicap. The handicap should be a secondary > consideration, if it is a consideration at all. A prime example of this > is this: I have been in foreign food restaurants, and not been able to > communicate with the servers because they don't speak English well enough > to communicate with the general public. If I had been in charge of the > hiring process, a major consideration would have been the ability to > communicate with Americans, in English. If they couldn't, they wouldn't > get the job that requires that skill. This is not due to prejudice on my > part, but a fact of reality. > > If I am blilnd, but know nothing at all abolut the technology field, I > shlould not be hired to work in that field until I have some background, > in the form of training, at least, in the field. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're > finished, you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message ----- From: "Sieghard Weitzel" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:55 PM > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Hi Conni, > > I am sure people with disabilities do work at Apple. However, just having > a > disability does not qualify anybody for a job, if they wanted to hire > people > to work in iOS development who are blind then that blind person would have > to meet whatever qualifications any other employee has who works in the > same > department. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of connie mohney > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:43 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The > people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees > from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so > those > people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you >> able > to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people > who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are > handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our > difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're > finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, Septemlber 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subjeclt: One way Apple could lbetter test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on > using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when > Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally > with > keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same > thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with > differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. > Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of > pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by defaultl. If you > have > any questions or concerns aboutll the running of this list, or if ylou > feel > that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives > for > this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this m
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
I think anybody can apply to be a tester, though there's bound to be requirements, like technical skill, or adventurous enough to dig in it all to really test, and feedback in a coherent way. Rh. - Original Message - From: "connie mohney" To: Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:42 PM Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" > wrote: > > One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able > to use the iPhone after 1 day? > > I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people > who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are > handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our > difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're > finished, you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM > Subject: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on > using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when > Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally > with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the > same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people > with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their > shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a > lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a > result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you > have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you > feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives > for this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you > have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you > feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives > for this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is importan
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
I'm not sure I like the inference that there are no people who work for Apple who are blind. If I inferred this incorrectly, I apologize. The point is, we don't know the makeup of the Apple work-force, so let's not assume that X Or Y type of person either works there or does not. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of connie mohney Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:16 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products Of course. The person with a disability would have to have knowledge about the products or be willing to be trained. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:03 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > Absolutely right. First, you have to be able to do the job, whatever it is, regardless of your handicap. The handicap should be a secondary consideration, if it is a consideration at all. A prime example of this is this: I have been in foreign food restaurants, and not been able to communicate with the servers because they don't speak English well enough to communicate with the general public. If I had been in charge of the hiring process, a major consideration would have been the ability to communicate with Americans, in English. If they couldn't, they wouldn't get the job that requires that skill. This is not due to prejudice on my part, but a fact of reality. > > If I am blilnd, but know nothing at all abolut the technology field, I shlould not be hired to work in that field until I have some background, in the form of training, at least, in the field. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:55 PM > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Hi Conni, > > I am sure people with disabilities do work at Apple. However, just > having a disability does not qualify anybody for a job, if they wanted > to hire people to work in iOS development who are blind then that > blind person would have to meet whatever qualifications any other > employee has who works in the same department. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of connie mohney > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:43 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. > The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The > employees from disability support could be asked to get people's > contact info so those people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you >> able > to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the >> people > who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are > handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our > difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're > finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, Septemlber 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subjeclt: One way Apple could lbetter test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on > using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember > when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated > totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, > it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop > products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. > Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a > lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by defaultl. If > you have any questions or concerns aboutll the running of this list, > or if ylou feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > the owners or moderators
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Of course. The person with a disability would have to have knowledge about the products or be willing to be trained. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:03 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > Absolutely right. First, you have to be able to do the job, whatever it is, > regardless of your handicap. The handicap should be a secondary > consideration, if it is a consideration at all. A prime example of this is > this: I have been in foreign food restaurants, and not been able to > communicate with the servers because they don't speak English well enough to > communicate with the general public. If I had been in charge of the hiring > process, a major consideration would have been the ability to communicate > with Americans, in English. If they couldn't, they wouldn't get the job that > requires that skill. This is not due to prejudice on my part, but a fact of > reality. > > If I am blilnd, but know nothing at all abolut the technology field, I > shlould not be hired to work in that field until I have some background, in > the form of training, at least, in the field. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:55 PM > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Hi Conni, > > I am sure people with disabilities do work at Apple. However, just having a > disability does not qualify anybody for a job, if they wanted to hire people > to work in iOS development who are blind then that blind person would have > to meet whatever qualifications any other employee has who works in the same > department. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of connie mohney > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:43 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The > people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees > from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those > people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able > to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people > who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are > handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our > difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're > finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, Septemlber 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subjeclt: One way Apple could lbetter test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on > using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when > Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with > keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same > thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with > differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. > Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of > pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by defaultl. If you have > any questions or concerns aboutll the running of this list, or if ylou feel > that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for > this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Of course. The person with a disability would have to have knowledge about the products or be willing to be trained. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:03 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > Absolutely right. First, you have to be able to do the job, whatever it is, > regardless of your handicap. The handicap should be a secondary > consideration, if it is a consideration at all. A prime example of this is > this: I have been in foreign food restaurants, and not been able to > communicate with the servers because they don't speak English well enough to > communicate with the general public. If I had been in charge of the hiring > process, a major consideration would have been the ability to communicate > with Americans, in English. If they couldn't, they wouldn't get the job that > requires that skill. This is not due to prejudice on my part, but a fact of > reality. > > If I am blilnd, but know nothing at all abolut the technology field, I > shlould not be hired to work in that field until I have some background, in > the form of training, at least, in the field. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:55 PM > Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Hi Conni, > > I am sure people with disabilities do work at Apple. However, just having a > disability does not qualify anybody for a job, if they wanted to hire people > to work in iOS development who are blind then that blind person would have > to meet whatever qualifications any other employee has who works in the same > department. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of connie mohney > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:43 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products > > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The > people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees > from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those > people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" >> wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able > to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people > who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are > handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our > difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're > finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, Septemlber 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subjeclt: One way Apple could lbetter test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on > using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when > Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with > keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same > thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with > differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. > Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of > pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by defaultl. If you have > any questions or concerns aboutll the running of this list, or if ylou feel > that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for > this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Absolutely right. First, you have to be able to do the job, whatever it is, regardless of your handicap. The handicap should be a secondary consideration, if it is a consideration at all. A prime example of this is this: I have been in foreign food restaurants, and not been able to communicate with the servers because they don't speak English well enough to communicate with the general public. If I had been in charge of the hiring process, a major consideration would have been the ability to communicate with Americans, in English. If they couldn't, they wouldn't get the job that requires that skill. This is not due to prejudice on my part, but a fact of reality. If I am blind, but know nothing at all about the technology field, I should not be hired to work in that field until I have some background, in the form of training, at least, in the field. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:55 PM Subject: RE: One way Apple could better test its products Hi Conni, I am sure people with disabilities do work at Apple. However, just having a disability does not qualify anybody for a job, if they wanted to hire people to work in iOS development who are blind then that blind person would have to meet whatever qualifications any other employee has who works in the same department. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of connie mohney Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:43 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to use the iPhone after 1 day? I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: One way Apple could better test its products Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. Neal -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
Hi Conni, I am sure people with disabilities do work at Apple. However, just having a disability does not qualify anybody for a job, if they wanted to hire people to work in iOS development who are blind then that blind person would have to meet whatever qualifications any other employee has who works in the same department. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of connie mohney Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:43 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to use the iPhone after 1 day? > > I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM > Subject: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Hi Connie, those things they never will be reality no apple that if they would, would've Artie happened. On Sep 28, 2014, at 4:42 PM, connie mohney wrote: > It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The > people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees > from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those > people could be IOS testers. > Connie > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: >> >> One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able >> to use the iPhone after 1 day? >> >> I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who >> take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are >> handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our >> difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, >> you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM >> Subject: One way Apple could better test its products >> >> >> Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using >> VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft >> touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard >> shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I >> think people who want to develop products for people with differing >> abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, >> there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of >> shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. >> >> Neal >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. >> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any >> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a >> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list >> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. >> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any >> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a >> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list >> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
It is to bad apple could not hire people with different disabilities. The people could either work at apple itself or work from home. The employees from disability support could be asked to get people's contact info so those people could be IOS testers. Connie Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 24, 2014, at 11:22 PM, "Charles Rivard" wrote: > > One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to > use the iPhone after 1 day? > > I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who > take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. > I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in > using the devices than any of the other tech reps. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM > Subject: One way Apple could better test its products > > > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using > VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft > touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard > shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I > think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities > should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are > other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I > bet it would work better for everyone as a result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
One day?? That would be nowhere near long enough. How well were you able to use the iPhone after 1 day? I think that a good source of information on testing would be the people who take calls on the phone number that especially for those who are handicapped. I'm thinking that they would have a better feel for our difficulties in using the devices than any of the other tech reps. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Neal Ewers" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: One way Apple could better test its products Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. Neal -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: One way Apple could better test its products
Hi, I did not write that message in response to any previous messages about 8.1 or 8.0. Just thought it would be a good idea. And yes, you're right about the accessibility team. But I bet there are people at Apple who have no clue what it is like to use their products as a person with a disability. I think Of course, they will never know, in that they can always take off their blindfolds or take out the ear plugs or take off the tented glasses. But who knows, they may learn something along side the accessibility team. Myself, I'd give a lot to know what it is like to operate the iPhone as a sighted person. Smile. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:00 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: One way Apple could better test its products Hi Neil, that is what the Apple accessibility department for. I know that they are a small team that is why they asked people like them to fix bugs. They go on with voiceover. In this case, it was not a voice over issue that was causing the problem. It was a service issue if you want to read all the threads. On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:56 PM, Neal Ewers wrote: > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: One way Apple could better test its products
Hi Neil, that is what the Apple accessibility department for. I know that they are a small team that is why they asked people like them to fix bugs. They go on with voiceover. In this case, it was not a voice over issue that was causing the problem. It was a service issue if you want to read all the threads. On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:56 PM, Neal Ewers wrote: > Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using > VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft > touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard > shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I > think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities > should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are > other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I > bet it would work better for everyone as a result. > > Neal > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
One way Apple could better test its products
Perhaps Apple employees should have to spend a day with blindfolds on using VoiceOver. I don't mean that sarcastically, but I do remember when Microsoft touted Internet Explorer as being able to be operated totally with keyboard shortcuts without touching the mouse. I know, it's not the same thing, but I think people who want to develop products for people with differing abilities should, perhaps, have to walk a while in their shoes. Obviously, there are other disabilities as well, so it would mean a lot of pairs of shoes, but I bet it would work better for everyone as a result. Neal -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
