Joy of discussion
Before he passed, my geologist friend and I enjoyed comparing views. Mine was the earth expanded versus his.. the continental drift. His view being that the evidence shows plate tectonics are dynamic. My view.. that the continents could not have drifted " apart" since the east and west side of land masses " fit". The discussion reached a point of maturity with each "cutting the other some slack" whereas he could grant me slackthat the earth could have expanded .. but the additional water required to fill the oceans would need to come from a close approach by Mars allowing the water to be " stripped". My thinking for earth expansion being to reconcile the " ancient's" yearof 360 vs 365 1/4 days. His being to reconcile the existence of ocean canyons such as the Hudson. Our thoughts on the time theme never reached a point of reconciliation. Jones mentioned that " volume" could be descriptive. Perhaps an " elusive illusion of volume" may fill in one of the blank spaces of the " coloring" book of life we were given without being supplied with the "paint by number" manual.. or ..were we given a manual?? The joy of discussion is enhanced in the Vortex group by self discipline whereas most groups degenerate into arguments. I commend each of you. Richard Blank Bkgrd.gif
Re: Electronium Carbonation of H2O/D2O
A battery of experiments involving microwaving water, ranging from distilled,(and melted hailstones from a recent deluge) and various concentrations of salts, indicate either the presence/transfer of the electronium particle, or complex (loss tangent) interaction behavior of the 2.45 GHz microwaves with the water. Carbonation by adding CO2 under pressure exceeding 4 atmospheres would eliminate anions such as Cl -etc., and M+ cations while increasing the H+ or D+: ion concentration D2O + CO2(pressure) - D2CO3aq - 2 D+ + CO2- - This gives one a shot at seeing if a (Hydrino-Deuterino-like) particle is created, and if this would be a practical means for concentration of atmospheric Electronium. From this one might find that Electroniumized Deuterons have a lower neutron stripping energy requirement, and a higher (hot or cold) fusion cross section. Frederick
Joy of discussion
Richard Macaulay wrote: "My view.. that the continents could not have drifted " apart" since the east and west side of land masses " fit". The discussion reached a point of maturity with each "cutting the other some slack" whereas he could grant me slackthat the earth could have expanded .. but the additional water required to fill the oceans would need to come from a close approach by Mars allowing the water to be " stripped"." Going by the scriptures, Richard: "When Methuselah had reached the great age of one hundred and eighty-seven years he became the father of Lamech. Following this he lived the remarkable term of seven hundred and eighty-two years, which makes his age at his death nine hundred and sixty-nine years. It follows thus that his death occurred in the year of the Deluge." I interpret this as a change in lightspeed: E = mc^2 or m = E/c^2 suggesting that the lightspeed in the solar system at the time of Methuselah was about 3.3 times it's present value , hence the mass of the earth was 1/10th of what it is now, and was zipping around the sun ten times as fast as the present value. Conservation of mass and energy is thus satisfied: Orbital Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mv^2, Rotational energy = 1/2 Iw^2 where I is the moment of inertia of a rotating sphere 2/5 MR^2, w =2(pi)/t. This would make old man Methuselah about 19 (of our years) when he fathered Lamech and 96+ when he went yonder. Note the decreasing ages of his progeny as the speed of light decreased. :-) http://www.earth-history.com/Generation.htm Frederick
Re: Time as a constant ???
Jones wrote: snip A few years back (25 years to be exact) a fine, nominally-secular, BBS series debuted on American public TV called Connections which is enlightening to merge with some of later more open-minded spiritual ideas of Bill Moyers. James Burke, the Connections master-mind, specialized in linking seemingly-random events in history; which events all came together at the proper time for the advancement of science, technology and our modern lifestyle. Some of the later episodes became a little strained, but the overwhelming impression one was left with is that none of the things we enjoy today would have been possible out of interlocking context... out of a wide spectrum of disparate contributions, and out of what can only be described as a loosely implemented grand scheme. It is not unrealistic to assign the idea of divinity to such a slow process, but of course ... this is not what some other folks (in pulpits) want you to believe. Burke's brilliant initial series sticks with me as a masterpiece of exposition of a very important topic, which Jones has touched on. In retrospect on my own life, I am compelled to recognize a series of events which have guided it. Objectively the choices may seem random, but subjectively at each critical branching point there was a sense of the 'right path' being 'presented' to me, sometimes with a distinct sense of emphasis: Do This! Apropos of all this is Wolfram's A New Kind of Science, which is a graphical demonstration of the power of cellular automata; Wolfram states that one motive in writing Mathematica was to explore cellular automata in depth. Involving parallel, recursive, non-linear interactons based on simple rules, no algorithm can analyze it (or verbal description embrace it). One can only plug in the starting point and watch what happens, which one can do with Mathematica, a powerful computer, and lots of patience. Wolfram demonstrates that for some seeds, nothing much happens; static order is quickly produced. For others, superficially similar, chaos erupts, in which every mathematical test of randomity is passed. Wolfram goes on to demonstrate this property for all manner of rules, and that the mathematical entities so created can perform logical and arithmetical operatons. One of the theoological arguments against scientific recductionism is the extreme complexity of the manifested world. Wolfram answers this with the genrative power of cellular automata, implying that that the root of Existence there may indeed be a simple set of rules in operation. The chances of finding this set by reductionist science are nil. Existence is deterministic chaos on a grand order. Studies of deterministic chaos have shown the existence of strange attractors and other islands of order amid apparent disorder. A number of books have been written on this theme. Penrose, in Shadows of the Mind pointed out certain mathematical problems which cannot be solved by algoritms [and therefore programmed computers] but can be solved by human minds; therefore there is a qualitative difference. I suggest that a funamental property of neural networks is pattern recognition. That term is hardly adequate to the task, for what I am pointing to is that our senses of sight and hearing, as well as others, depend on very complex nonlinear parallel processing systems which have partially be definied by neurological and psychological studies. Only a neural-network mind can recognize patterns in the magical world outside our skins, see constellations in the stars, voices in the surf, and conspiracies under every rock. We compulsively seek patterns, connect dots, etc. In contemplation of the manifestaions of the cosmic cellular automatoa, one can map then onto traditional descriptions of God; engimatic, intimate, transcendant, endlessly creative, pervasive, implacable, unfathomable, etc. Quoting the Tao: The Way that can be named is not the eternal Way; Naming is the mother of ten thousand things. Mike Carrell
Re: Time as a constant ???
im missing the last part of the statement. provided that constant changes... wouldnt that make it a variable. and time IS a variable, dependant upon velocity. On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:58:55 -0500, RC Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could we consider time as the only constant, provided that single constant changes with everything physical? Absurd comment ? Perhaps.. but.. maybe science gives us a glimpse but not the vocabulary. Perhaps we do not know how to assign a measurement to time? A clock may be a flawed method. For those scripture buffs, an interesting story regarding the sun's shadow on the staircase moving back may not be so absurd should another method of measurement be discovered. Richard -- Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten. -G.K. Chesterton
Re: OFF TOPIC Iraqi aluminum tube story finis
1. well, since theres been testifiying in front of congress and leaks and unaltered originals sent to media, yeah, actually, we do know for sure. 2. the us is a signatory to the un. the us has agreed to the uns controll in issues that are not about defense. in fact, the whole reason we went into iraq was becuase of them supposedly not doing WHAT THE UN ORDERED. so, we went to war, ignoring un dictates, becuase of un dictates. sure, that makes sense. 3. not touching.. 4. it would send a greatmessage to potential allies though. 5. so, your the kind of person, if someone cuts you off in traffic, you go and cut someone else off, and blame it on teh guy that cut you off? Saddam and iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. NOTHING to do with Al Quaeda. Osama bin laden HATES Saddam, becuase he ran iraq as a non secular state. Al Quaeda had been known to bomb targets in Iraq because of that. not that they were able to get in often, as iraqs borders were quite tight. not that they are anymore. and youre right. who speaks for the dead. who complains that the troops and equipment that were sent to afghanistan, where those who attacked us actually ARE, were pulled out and sent to iraq. ohh, wait. i do. thats right. 6. iraq didnt butcher its own people. its human rights records against protests suck, but the mass graves are those kurds who we told to revolt, and that wed help them, and then we abandoned them. it was a civil war, and any country has the right to defend its integrity in a civil war. using the gas we sold him to do it with was probably the least deadly way, number of casualties wise, to do it with. as for the lists of those always dying, that was becuase of un sanctions that prevented a lot of medicine and other equipment from getting in, becuase it MIGHT be used in weapons production. its like all the laws that prevent people from buying more than one box of sudafed, becuase you MIGHT make meth with it. 7. actually, the whole point of the universal service act was that if there was a draft activation (which is still possible) then there would already be a change made to the draft (this change) that would allow that activation to be done non militarily if the person chose. those talking about it as the bill to bring back the draft simply dont know what they are talking about. the usa does not actually activate the draft, it simply changes the existing draft laws on the books, by removing the age sex limits, and giving non military means of service if you DO get drafted. 8. nope, its real. but misstated and fearmongered on line 9. im a liberal. except where im conservative. socialist leanings. lets all sing now! kumbaya my non denominational lord and/or insert faith or lack thereof here, kumabaya! now then. the x prize has been won, and st helens has a stomach ache. other than that, dunno. On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Kyle Mcallister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thoughts (or brain droppings, as George Carlin would say): 1. We will never know for sure what photos and or evidence was doctored and by who. This tends to happen with things like this, the goings on with politics and the war. 2. Since when does the United Nations dictate our policy? I am not a citizen of the UN, or of some supposed unified world. I am a strong nationalist, and shall remain as such. 3. The war has gone on too long. How I personally feel it should have been handled I will not comment on here, as it would likely cause a flame war, with said flames directed at me. However, it should have been handled differently, more swiftly, and more effectively. 4. If the US were to back down, and 'play nice doggie' so to speak, that would not send a very good message to potential enemies. 5. In reply to statements like: The US is a bunch of big bullies, and they are picking on poor deprived people of the world that could cause no harm to such a powerful nation. Why are they flexing their muscles this way? Can cause no harm? Tell this to those who died in the towers; who speaks for the dead? What do we say to the dead? 6. My personal idea of foreign policy: Leave us alone, we'll leave you alone, assuming you don't go around butchering your own people. Be our friend, we'll be your friend and will help you. Harm us, and we will destroy you. Now, is it a nation's right to be able to butcher their own people? I certainly don't think so, and if the 'biggest dog on the block' doesn't seem to think so either, so much the better. 7. Universal Service Act, eh? It appears dead, yet it is interesting to consider. I've heard from the media that Bush was the one who wanted the draft back, yet this nice piece of legislative detritus has been formulated by politicians of the more liberal persuasion. 2 years of national service...hmmm...well, let's see: I've been paying taxes so some people who wish to do nothing can declare themselves unfit to work, get
Re: Time as a constant ???
Gentlemen, Back in 2000, I attended a little informal meeting at University of Arizona in Tucson at the Astronomy Department on alternative models of gravity. One of the people I met at that time was the department contrarian astronomer, Dr. Bill Tifft. Tifft's speciality was the observation of quantized red shift anomalies in spiral galaxies. His tentative hypothesis suggested that at intergalactic sizes, general relativity may break down, and that space and time assume properties similar to everyday life in the quantum realm. Now this was meaty stuff, and Tifft was as you might imagine a fan and intellectual sparring partner of Halton Arp. However what I found even more fascinating was Tifft's theory of 3D time. Fascinating even given that I understood only .0001% of what he was suggesting! Best I could translate into Nickspeak, the time domain has a three dimensional existence, but because we are in the space domain, we can perceive it only (at best) as an abstract 4th dimension. However in Tifft's cosmology, there could be matter, planets, people, existing in the time domain, and for them, space would be an annoying poetic relativistic abstraction. The interface is at photons - or something like that. A web search for Tifft's work shows up very little, though a couple of years ago he had started a website for the discussion of 3D time models. No idea what happened to it, or him. Maybe some vortexian with greater seeking skills than I can follow up. I have e-mailed Tifft on a couple of occasions over the past 4 years, to no avail. Despite my lack of understanding, it seemed elegant and had a truthful character to it as theories go. Still an empiricist, but when I do walk the other side of the street, I am a sucker for theories that are elegantly symmetrical. Old fashioned that way. NR --- Mike Carrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jones wrote: snip A few years back (25 years to be exact) a fine, nominally-secular, BBS series debuted on American public TV called Connections which is enlightening to merge with some of later more open-minded spiritual ideas of Bill Moyers. James Burke, the Connections master-mind, ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com
[Fwd: Joy of discussion]
---BeginMessage--- I have a few question as a simple observer of things I know little about. If the speed of light changed, would not the speed of the electron around the nucleus also change? Would not the rate of reactions within nature and within the body not change in proportion? In other words, would Methuselah have aged just as fast? In fact, how would anyone know that the speed of light had changed if all things that move change in proportion, as they must? Suppose, as many people are proposing, that another faster mechanism exists for communication. Would not the use of this method invalidate the conclusions about time that the speed of light implies? Just a few questions to keep you thinking. Ed Frederick Sparber wrote: Richard Macaulay wrote:"My view.. that the continents could not have drifted " apart" since the east and west side of land masses " fit". The discussion reached a point of maturity with each "cutting the other some slack" whereas he could grant me slack that the earth could have expanded .. but the additional water required to fill the oceans would need to come from a close approach by Mars allowing the water to be " stripped"."Going by the scriptures, Richard:"When Methuselah had reached the great age of one hundred and eighty-seven years he became the father of Lamech. Following this he lived the remarkable term of seven hundred and eighty-two years, which makes his age at his death nine hundred and sixty-nine years. It follows thus that his death occurred in the year of the Deluge."I interpret this as a change in lightspeed:E = mc^2 or m = E/c^2 suggesting that the lightspeed in the solar system at the time of Methuselahwas about 3.3 times it's present value , hence the mass of the earth was 1/10th of what it is now, andwas zipping around the sun ten times as fast as the present value. Conservation of mass and energyis thus satisfied: Orbital Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mv^2, Rotational energy = 1/2 Iw^2 where I is the moment of inertiaof a rotating sphere 2/5 MR^2, w =2(pi)/t.This would make old man Methuselah about 19 (of our years) when he fathered Lamech and 96+ when he went yonder.Note the decreasing ages of his progeny as the speed of light decreased. :-)http://www.earth-history.com/Generation.htmFrederick ---End Message---
Stepper Motor thoughts and questions.
Hi All. I'm hoping some of you folks can give me some advice. I've been working with stepper motors from old hard drives; an excellent source for such things. They each come with a controller card, and vary in speed from 5000-15000 rpm depending on the make and model. The problem I run into is that it's often the case that in order to save power and extend drive life, the motor tends to turn off ( or pulse on and off ) after a few seconds of operation. Is there an easy generic way to modify the controller card to override this? ( like for example putting a voltage on one of the pins from the ribbon cable connector ). I'm sure that specific mods could be done to achieve this, but it would be far too much work to track down the drive chip specs for each brand and figure this out. A generic cheat would make my recovery rate for old drives increase tremendously. I used to just strip the magnets from old drives, and regret throwing aways the rest now that I know how useful the rest can be. So I mention it to you all as well; old drives are filled with stepper motor/ NIB magnet goodness. K.
Artificial muscles
See: Electroactive Polymers As Artificial Muscles - Capabilities, Potentials And Challenges http://ndeaa.jpl.nasa.gov/ndeaa-pub/EAP/EAP-robotics-2000.pdf Figure 11 is neat! - Jed
[Fwd: Joy of discussion]
So far all I can come up with for an answer Ed, is "42". :-) Frederick .. On 10/7/04 12:46:36 PM Ed Storms wrote to Frederick and forwarded to Vortex-l: "I have a few question as a simple observer of things I know little about. If the speed of light changed, would not the speed of the electron around the nucleus also change? Would not the rate of reactions within nature and within the body not change in proportion? In other words, would Methuselah have aged just as fast? In fact, how would anyone know that the speed of light had changed if all things that move change in proportion, as they must? Suppose, as many people are proposing, that another faster mechanism exists for communication. Would not the use of this method invalidate the conclusions about time that the speed of light implies? Just a few questions to keep you thinking. " Ed Frederick Sparber wrote: Richard Macaulay wrote:"My view.. that the continents could not have drifted " apart" since the east and west side of land masses " fit". The discussion reached a point of maturity with each "cutting the other some slack" whereas he could grant me slack that the earth could have expanded .. but the additional water required to fill the oceans would need to come from a close approach by Mars allowing the water to be " stripped"." Going by the scriptures, Richard: "When Methuselah had reached the great age of one hundred and eighty-seven years he became the father of Lamech. Following this he lived the remarkable term of seven hundred and eighty-two years, which makes his age at his death nine hundred and sixty-nine years. It follows thus that his death occurred in the year of the Deluge." I interpret this as a change in lightspeed:E = mc^2 or m = E/c^2 suggesting that the lightspeed in the solar system at the time of Methuselahwas about 3.3 times it's present value , hence the mass of the earth was 1/10th of what it is now, and was zipping around the sun ten times as fast as the present value. Conservation of mass and energyis thus satisfied: Orbital Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mv^2, Rotational energy = 1/2 Iw^2 where I is the moment of inertia of a rotating sphere 2/5 MR^2, w =2(pi)/t.This would make old man Methuselah about 19 (of our years) when he fathered Lamech and 96+ when he went yonder.Note the decreasing ages of his progeny as the speed of light decreased. :-) http://www.earth-history.com/Generation.htm Frederick
Infamous Popular Mechanics article now on line
See: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/2004/8/dangerous_science/ Sort of infamous. With some people. Actually, I am glad they published it. - Jed
Re: OFF TOPIC Iraqi aluminum tube story finis
1. well, since theres been testifiying in front of congress and leaks and unaltered originals sent to media, yeah, actually, we do know for sure. I'm just saying there is a lot more to this whole situation than meets the eye, on both sides. 2. the us is a signatory to the un. the us has agreed to the uns controll in issues that are not about defense. in fact, the whole reason we went into iraq was becuase of them supposedly not doing WHAT THE UN ORDERED. so, we went to war, ignoring un dictates, becuase of un dictates. sure, that makes sense. Let me get this straight: you are saying that the UN has control over all US issues except those of defense? I hope I read that wrong. Personally, I am all for the US 'disobeying' the UN, if this is the case. The US belongs to us, the citizens of the US. Not to the rest of the world. As far as what the UN ordered, I do not really care, I do not take orders from the UN. 3. not touching.. ;) 4. it would send a greatmessage to potential allies though. Such as? Let's all be pushovers together? 5. so, your the kind of person, if someone cuts you off in traffic, you go and cut someone else off, and blame it on teh guy that cut you off? Where in the hell did you get THAT from what I wrote? No I don't do things like that, why would I? It would be pointless and stupid. Traffic actions have nothing to do with baseless attacks against a civilian populus whatsoever. Saddam and iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. NOTHING to do with Al Quaeda. Maybe so, maybe not. I would be hard pressed to trust anything said or 'discovered' from over there. Regardless, the man was absolutely terrible, and it is a good thing he has been taken out of power. Osama bin laden HATES Saddam, becuase he ran iraq as a non secular state. Al Quaeda had been known to bomb targets in Iraq because of that. The statement my enemies' enemy is my friend is not true most of the time, particularly when dealing with nations like Iraq and present company. who complains that the troops and equipment that were sent to afghanistan, where those who attacked us actually ARE, were pulled out and sent to iraq. ohh, wait. i do. thats right. You do? How about close friends who I have not seen for over a year, who have been nearly killed (maybe some have been), whose families have worried daily about them, and who upon return now face being sent back? These guys, the ones who are now able to communicate with me again, have told me stories from 'over there', and many of these stories are rather grim. We all tend to agree, it should have been handled more swiftly. It is also interesting that, from what they have told me, the average Iraqi they have talked to seems quite glad to be rid of Saddam. Oh, but I forgot...these guys aren't the media, so they aren't to be trusted. They are just the ones who have been mortared, bombed and shot at for a year. 6. iraq didnt butcher its own people. its human rights records against protests suck, but the mass graves are those kurds who we told to revolt, and that wed help them, and then we abandoned them. Well, the US was wrong for not helping like we promised to. I am not saying the US is always right. Alot of the time it is wrong, and has done some incredibly stupid and irrational things. it was a civil war, and any country has the right to defend its integrity in a civil war. By killing its own people in droves? Saddam is a mass murderer, to deny this and to deny that it is good that he is no longer in power is insanity. As to UN sanctions preventing aid, and stupid laws in the US (there are many), I agree, these things are ridiculous, and should be stopped. In any case, it would not be so bad to have allowed help to those in need...if the ruling body of the people being given aid suddenly seized the imports and began to use them for weapons production of some kind, then you get rid of said ruling body. snip input on the Universal Service Act Interesting points. Unfortunately, this thing has the potential to be taken off the proverbial deep end, if implemented. 8. nope, its real. but misstated and fearmongered on line Someone should notify Symantec...its the newest online fear-virus, courtesy of the US congress. ;) lets all sing now! kumbaya my non denominational lord and/or insert faith or lack thereof here, kumabaya! Interesting way to put thingsthis particular way of speaking has become popular nowadays, it seems, particularly with the younger generations, including my own (which I will politely decline affiliation with). Personally, I am strong enough to not be offended when someone prays to Buddha in my presence, or says May Allah bless you, or whatever the case may be. Our modern society is too obsessed with making sure that they don't offend someone with what they say. Are we now a society of babies with our poor little feelings to get hurt by what the bad man said?
Re: Need CAD/CAM VTOL drawing
Jed wrote: If anyone out there enjoys using these CAD/CAM drawing programs, please contact me by private e-mail. I would like to commission a drawing of a futuristic six-engined, wingless VTOL airplane, if you can imagine such a thing. A rough sketch would be fine. It does not have to be detailed and it certainly does not have to be airworthy, even in theory, not that I could judge. I did a Google image search but I did not find anything appealing. I know nothing about CAD/CAM programs. I do not even know what CAM stands for. It is the part on the shaft that opens the valve. It's Computer Aided Design Computer Aided Manufactruing. The objective is to remove the vast amounts of paperwork in the design and manufacturing of any complex machine: airplane, automobile, dishwasher, etc. Current technology can do the whole job in software, with 3-D checking for inteference of parts, automatic production of solid models of arbitrary shape (such as a chain of solid, independent links), and finally operation of complex machining tools. Groups in various parts of the world can work on the same machine. I think that a major aircraft manufacturer did a whole design in CAD/CAM. But why a six-engine VTOL when a four engine car-like VTOL craft already exists? It has four ducted fans driven by Wankel engines at the corners and redundant computers to achieve flight stability. Mike Carrell
