[Vo]: MWI (Many Worlds Interpretation)
A poll of 72 leading physicists conducted by the American researcher David Raub in 1995 and published in the French periodical Sciences et Avenir in January 1998 recorded that nearly 60% thought many worlds interpretation was 'true'. Paul Lowrance
[Vo]: Re: MWI (Many Worlds Interpretation)
Paul wrote: A poll of 72 leading physicists conducted by the American researcher David Raub in 1995 and published in the French periodical Sciences et Avenir in January 1998 recorded that nearly 60% thought many worlds interpretation was 'true'. Despite true being a loaded-word, if there ever was one g there is really no other way to scientifically explain how the so-called stochastic process seems to deviate from true randomness - yet always to deviate as if it were goal-oriented. Now...how is that sentence sounding for being able to totally disguise the true limits of ID (and were are not talking Freud here)? Jones BTW the stochastic process for those who follow this kind of thing in the biological minutiae of life (and given the weekly timing)... and further assuming that you wish to discover the hint of spirituality which is present in Richard Dawkins writings, and which reconciles that seemingly godless outlook with the blatant spirititual overtones of Rupert Sheldrake well, it (the stochastic process) is as close to putting a name on divinity as science allows, without resorting to faith. And if that phrasing is not confusing enough, let me add simply that it is far from a clinical outlook and in fact is very comforting - to those who have gotten a handle of the concept of timelessness
Re: [Vo]: Re: MWI (Many Worlds Interpretation)
Or as Hui Neng said: From the first, there is nothing. P. At 11:37 AM 2/25/2007, you wrote: Paul wrote: A poll of 72 leading physicists conducted by the American researcher David Raub in 1995 and published in the French periodical Sciences et Avenir in January 1998 recorded that nearly 60% thought many worlds interpretation was 'true'. Despite true being a loaded-word, if there ever was one g there is really no other way to scientifically explain how the so-called stochastic process seems to deviate from true randomness - yet always to deviate as if it were goal-oriented. Now...how is that sentence sounding for being able to totally disguise the true limits of ID (and were are not talking Freud here)? Jones BTW the stochastic process for those who follow this kind of thing in the biological minutiae of life (and given the weekly timing)... and further assuming that you wish to discover the hint of spirituality which is present in Richard Dawkins writings, and which reconciles that seemingly godless outlook with the blatant spirititual overtones of Rupert Sheldrake well, it (the stochastic process) is as close to putting a name on divinity as science allows, without resorting to faith. And if that phrasing is not confusing enough, let me add simply that it is far from a clinical outlook and in fact is very comforting - to those who have gotten a handle of the concept of timelessness
Re: [Vo]: Frolov update AKOIL claims 400% eff
Looked at Alexandr Frolov's site. The magnetic free energy extractor appears for sale to be built in the 'Emirates, Bulgaria, and Slovakiawhy not in Russia and give some St Petersburgensians a good job? His site claims 400 percent efficiency, and there is quite a list of available machines up to an output of a gigawatt for a cool 600 million Euro and a two year wait. AKOIL would be a dream come true if it is on the level. Really come into its own for space power generation...about ten of those big puppies on a intrasystem ship equipped with ion drive and a Bussard ramscoop to collect electrodynamic propellant from the interplanetary space which is not quite as empty as some suppose.dream on dreamer. The site is in Russian but there is an English page. http://www.faraday.ru/english.html Standing Bear Maybe the Russians will build one. After all, they built the Kliper, a design ready to go that they are willing to share with the world. The Kliper appears a darn sight safer than the shuttle. And it is part of a coherent existing and ongoing project for space exploration for the good of mankind. Take a look at Russian space sites like Proton and see their vision for an electric spacecraft capable for Mars exploration. They do not trust chemicals and neither should we.
[Vo]: Quantum Thermodynamics
Gnorts Vorts! While some things must remain on the QT, I was reading that TB (Bearden, not me) claims that his MEG gets cool when it's pumping power. Would any Vorts care to speculate how an OU device would take heat from the environment? Terry
Re: [Vo]: Hydrogen Outta Nowhere?
On Friday 23 February 2007 09:59, Zell, Chris wrote: I realize that completely eliminating all contamination is difficult but if protons can be popped out of the vacuum by an arc discharge, then I think we need to take another look at the Steady State theory of the universe. This could be one of those little experiments with big implications. http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/02/a_history_of_dark_matter.html later on in the forum there is this thread about 'perpetual motion machines'. The whole idea of 'free energy' to some folks is not believable inasmuch as the source of this 'extra energy' is not seen or understood. Same as the above 'mysteriousely appearing' proton from an arc discharge. If the proton indeed came out of the void (aether, whatever), so also could energy, as that proton mass would be so many electron volts. Suppose there is really some new physics here that would render the seemingly nonsensical to those of limited vision..sensable. It may be that our view of our universe is really incomplete after all, and that the conservation theory may really not be in danger. If the energy comes from 'somewhere else' , then that 'somewhere else' lost that energy to 'somewhere here' and conservation is again satisfied. Standing Bear
Re: [Vo]: Re: Lifter electrode geometries
I wrote: ... If the thrust can be increased by increasing the gap distance, how large can the gap be made? As large as you wish, but if you increase the gap you must also e.g. increase the voltage and the wire-to-wire spacing, the parameters are interdependent so you must calculate them in the right order (cf the multiwire-plane design guide). Here is a minimal maths optimum lifter design procedure I have just derived from the guide's equations: GUIDE: Reference design: At 1 kV/mm (the max we can do without arcing) the power consumption is 2 W per gram of thrust, and the required area is 0.0025 m^2 per g. Scaling rules: The W per g are proportional to the kV/mm, whereas the m^2 per g go as their inverse square. Wire: as thin as possible (0.1mm OK in most cases), wire-wire spacing = 1.3 times the gap length d (optimum value) EXAMPLE: --- We want to lift 50 g, and we choose a v/d of half the max value i.e. 0.5 kV/mm, namely v=25kV for a d=50mm gap, to save on power consumption (our color monitor is only 75W) 1/ Required power per g: 2 W * 0.5 = 1 W - Consumed power for 50 g = 50 W 2/ Required area per g: 0.0025 m^2 / 0.5^2 = 0.01 m^2 - Required area 0.50 m^2 3/ Wire-wire spacing: 1.3*50 mm = 65mm That's it. Questions/improvements/corrections welcome. Michel
Re: [Vo]: Quantum Thermodynamics
Blast-from-the past (9 years ago): and shall we dare to revisit everyone's (especially Jed's) favorite pseud-o-U Claimant: (Joe N, not Jean L N) http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/NMac0709.htm JLN sez: The purpose of this test is to check for changes in the entropy of the (Newman) Machine Side note: This was not Newman's machine per se, but an improved version built by Naudin/David ...and... the Motor ran for four minutes+ with NO (zero, nada, zilch) power input ! ...and everyone, including moi, thought, at the time, that it was a sham or error, due to Newman (Souffle's) over-reaching bad attitude (tin cup extended) and the other self-serving and inflammatory comments made on Vortex and elsewhere. ... did Naudin use good technique ? Hmmm... this part is not rocket science ... JLN: I have used a dual probes digital thermometer (resolution 0.1 degree Celsius) : - The first temperature probe has been used as reference for the lab temp (21.5 degrees Celsius) - The second temperature probe has been glued directly on the Newman's coil. I have waited one hour before starting the test for equalizing the temperatures ( LabTemp = 21.5 degrees, Coil Temp = 21.5 degrees) The test has been conducted during one hour. [graph shown] Again: This was for the Motor which ran for four minutes with NO (zero, nada, zilch) power input ! OK the cooling results shown are intriguing but not conclusive - as this is not a huge drop and only slightly over the resolution of the probes. However, there should have been substantial coil heating instead of cooling and there is no good reason to suspect thermoelectric (Peltier-Seebeck) cooling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltier-Seebeck_effect Therefore, I for one, want to go on record as saying that this motor was probably (arguably) running in a slight OU mode for most of those 4 minute, unless it was acting as an antenna for local power mains, ...or whatever (after all JNL's lab is on the premises of EDF) ...and also that if not an antenna, then the temperature drop, small as it was, was proof of negentropy - and very likely to have been related to ZPE extraction. How is that for equivocation? err... no snide remarks, my vocation is not equivocation g Terry Blanton wrote: Gnorts Vorts! While some things must remain on the QT, I was reading that TB (Bearden, not me) claims that his MEG gets cool when it's pumping power. Would any Vorts care to speculate how an OU device would take heat from the environment? Terry
[Vo]: ions and air
Michel Jullian wrote: - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Lifters ... ...Sigmond's derivation for the lifter thrust (or rather it's opposite namely the force exerted by the ions on the air ... However, what about the force of reaction by the air on the ions? That's the thrust, and as I said, it's exactly the opposite vectorially to the force exerted by the ions on the air calculated by Sigmond (they are equal in magnitude: action=reaction). You see the recirculated charges are internal parts of the lifter, just like the paddles are internal parts of the paddle wheel boat, so any external force on them is a force on the lifter. To clear up a possible confusion, the forces we discussed wrt the tubular lifter between the electrodes and the flying charges are all internal forces, like one could discuss the internal actions between the paddles and the ship, or the propeller and the helicopter. They are interesting as a way to visualize what pushes the _electrodes_ up, but they cancel when you add them all up (e.g. force of charges on cathode + force of cathode on charges = 0), what really applies a net force to the lifter is the reaction of the medium. Unless this force exceeds the force exerted by the ions on the air the lifter will not rise. If it is less than this, the lifter is just an air pump. Not at all, they are equal in magnitude in all circumstances :) The lifter will simply rise if the force exceeds its weight, in which case its acceleration is (force - weight)/mass, as long as the aerodynamic drag remains negligible as is the case in all practical lifters. Michel I reread this and now I find something else perplexing. How do the ions manage to make their way to the lower electrode if the force between the ions and the air is equal and opposite? Harry
Re: [Vo]: Quantum Thermodynamics
On 2/25/07, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...or whatever (after all JNL's lab is on the premises of EDF) ...and also that if not an antenna, then the temperature drop, small as it was, was proof of negentropy - and very likely to have been related to ZPE extraction. Yes, this is where I was heading. If one can extract from Dirac's sea of negative energy, you must provide the heat of evaporation. Could the electron's magnet moment be just the sort of pump required? Terry
Re: [Vo]: Quantum Thermodynamics
On 2/25/07, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/25/07, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...or whatever (after all JNL's lab is on the premises of EDF) ...and also that if not an antenna, then the temperature drop, small as it was, was proof of negentropy - and very likely to have been related to ZPE extraction. Yes, this is where I was heading. If one can extract from Dirac's sea of negative energy, you must provide the heat of evaporation. Could the electron's magnet moment be just the sort of pump required? Terry
Re: [Vo]: Quantum Thermodynamics
On 2/25/07, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this is where I was heading. If one can extract from Dirac's sea of negative energy, you must provide the heat of evaporation. Could the electron's magnet moment be just the sort of pump required? My fingers are not completely connected to my brain today. I have just committed a Bushism as in today's Doonesbury. I should have said magnet(ic) moment. Terry
[Vo]: Re: ions and air
- Original Message - From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: [Vo]: ions and air ... I reread this and now I find something else perplexing. How do the ions manage to make their way to the lower electrode if the force between the ions and the air is equal and opposite? Newton's third law: law of reciprocal actions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion Michel
Re: [Vo]: Frolov update AKOIL claims 400% eff
Before sending along the 600 million Euros, I would Google up: Frolov fraud just in case. Michel - Original Message - From: Standing Bear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Frolov update AKOIL claims 400% eff Looked at Alexandr Frolov's site. The magnetic free energy extractor appears for sale to be built in the 'Emirates, Bulgaria, and Slovakiawhy not in Russia and give some St Petersburgensians a good job? His site claims 400 percent efficiency, and there is quite a list of available machines up to an output of a gigawatt for a cool 600 million Euro and a two year wait. AKOIL would be a dream come true if it is on the level. Really come into its own for space power generation...about ten of those big puppies on a intrasystem ship equipped with ion drive and a Bussard ramscoop to collect electrodynamic propellant from the interplanetary space which is not quite as empty as some suppose.dream on dreamer. The site is in Russian but there is an English page. http://www.faraday.ru/english.html Standing Bear Maybe the Russians will build one. After all, they built the Kliper, a design ready to go that they are willing to share with the world. The Kliper appears a darn sight safer than the shuttle. And it is part of a coherent existing and ongoing project for space exploration for the good of mankind. Take a look at Russian space sites like Proton and see their vision for an electric spacecraft capable for Mars exploration. They do not trust chemicals and neither should we.
Re: [Vo]: Re: ions and air
Michel Jullian wrote: - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: [Vo]: ions and air ... I reread this and now I find something else perplexing. How do the ions manage to make their way to the lower electrode if the force between the ions and the air is equal and opposite? Newton's third law: law of reciprocal actions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion Michel Ok I get it. Harry
[Vo]: lifter in a accelerating frame
Imagine a lifter is hanging from a thread without any power. Immediately after the thread is cut the power is turned on. Would you get a different value for the force on the ions if you did the calculation from the beginning in an accelerating frame of reference? Harry
[Vo]: Re: lifter in a accelerating frame
Doing calculations in an accelerating frame makes me sick I am afraid ;-) But I guess it would be the same force, since it's not a ficticious one like e.g. the centrifugal force. My turn to give you some homework Harry, could you try the new multiwire-plane design guide I posted earlier today and let me know how usable it is? Say design the mother of all lifters, with the following specs: 100 kg thrust, 1 m gap, 0.9 kV/mm Power consumption, area, wire spacing? Michel - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:13 PM Subject: [Vo]: lifter in a accelerating frame Imagine a lifter is hanging from a thread without any power. Immediately after the thread is cut the power is turned on. Would you get a different value for the force on the ions if you did the calculation from the beginning in an accelerating frame of reference? Harry
Re: [Vo]: Re: lifter in a accelerating frame
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:27:04 +0100: Hi Michel, [snip] Doing calculations in an accelerating frame makes me sick I am afraid ;-) But I guess it would be the same force, since it's not a ficticious one like e.g. the centrifugal force. My turn to give you some homework Harry, could you try the new multiwire-plane design guide I posted earlier today and let me know how usable it is? Say design the mother of all lifters, with the following specs: 100 kg thrust, 1 m gap, 0.9 kV/mm Power consumption, area, wire spacing? Michel [snip] Someone should try a flying saucer shaped lifter, with a circular wire ring on top as positive electrode, and disk shaped cathode underneath. The advantage of this is that you get extra lift from the Coander effect. The body should be a good insulator (styrafoam?). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition (capitalism) provides the motivation, Cooperation (communism) provides the means.
