Re: [Vo]:A definitive experiment to prove and measure NiH nuclear reactions - neutrino detection.
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:11 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that there are quite stable setups and which give out extra heat with some reliability. So I think the time has come for the definitive test, which is trying to detect neutrinos. Have you looked at the few detectors that exist? Considering that 10^10 neutrinos pass through a cm^2 every second, the probability of detection is slim. It helps if we know the energy of the neutrino we seek and how many we anticipate before choosing a detection type.
Re: [Vo]:A definitive experiment to prove and measure NiH nuclear reactions - neutrino detection.
So, if we can detect 3 neutrinos whose trajectory meet at the reactor, it will amazing. 2013/1/29 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com Have you looked at the few detectors that exist? Considering that 10^10 neutrinos pass through a cm^2 every second, the probability of detection is slim. It helps if we know the energy of the neutrino we seek and how many we anticipate before choosing a detection type. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics
So what is wrong with the Wikipedia article? What I mean is that regardless of how efficient the thermophotovoltaic is there is no other way for heat-energy to escape the enclosure except as IR-light converted to electricity. With this forced arrangement how can electricity generation be anything except 100 %? There is no Carnot cycle since energy flows from one end to the other. There is no cycle involved. David David Jonsson, Sweden, +46703000370 On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: David, ** ** You are possibly misreading this article. It is poorly written to begin with. ** ** Carnot efficiency affects all heat engines in a similar way. ** ** Moreover, it is a basic limitation which deducts “off the top” so all other inefficiencies deduct from the lower number. ** ** ** ** *From:* David Jonsson ** ** Hi I have imagined using thermophotovoltaics to produce a highly efficient conversion from heat to electricity. Imagine having a heat source in a very thermally well insulated container. In the same container there is a thermophotovoltaic cell converting the heat radiation into electricity. Wouldn't a cell like that be very efficient? What stops it from being 100 % efficient, or having its efficiency reduced only by leaks in the thermal insulation? Even if the Carnot efficiency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophotovoltaic#Efficiency is low it doesn't affect the total efficiency. The emitter will always be hotter than the converter, since the converter converts some of the heat radiation. There will always be some efficiency. Increase of dark current, as Wikipedia mentions as a reason for efficiency decrease at higher temperature, should be the same in both directions in the converter and could not lower efficiency. Either efficiency could be higher or the explanations of the efficiency lowering effects are wrong. ** ** Best would be to build a device and see what will happen. ** ** David ** **
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
It's funny and sad to see people in denial in the comments section. 2013/1/29 fznidar...@aol.com Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
The article tallies with the UK where the proportion of graduates in the cohort entering employment each year is double the proportion of jobs requiring a degree. My daughter and her son in law both got firsts, and both ended up in jobs that do not require a degree. My son in law is trained for his job alongside people 4 years younger with no debt because they did not go to college. Nigel On 29/01/2013 15:07, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. As a result, many graduates are qualified only for low skilled jobs. Consequently, a big push is now underway by companies that have high skilled jobs to open more visa opportunities for skilled people from other countries to work here. Naturally, these skilled people are cheaper to hire than the older skilled people who are already here, which provides the basic incentive. I fear how the growing number of uneducated people will vote in the future. The population is almost equally divided now between people who do not have a clue and people who still can understand what is happening. The future does not look good. On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: It's funny and sad to see people in denial in the comments section. 2013/1/29 fznidar...@aol.com Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted was one guy:. A PhD with a specialty in a branch of relational mathematics who happened to have the unfortunate characteristic of being a US citizen. My request for this consultant was declined but I was offered all the H-1b visas from India I wanted. Literally. Guess what ethnicity was of the guy in charge of that project? The Fortune 500 is now taken over by India. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. As a result, many graduates are qualified only for low skilled jobs. Consequently, a big push is now underway by companies that have high skilled jobs to open more visa opportunities for skilled people from other countries to work here. Naturally, these skilled people are cheaper to hire than the older skilled people who are already here, which provides the basic incentive. I fear how the growing number of uneducated people will vote in the future. The population is almost equally divided now between people who do not have a clue and people who still can understand what is happening. The future does not look good. On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: It's funny and sad to see people in denial in the comments section. 2013/1/29 fznidar...@aol.com Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics
From: David Jonsson What I mean is that regardless of how efficient the thermophotovoltaic is there is no other way for heat-energy to escape the enclosure except as IR-light converted to electricity. That is naïve. IR light will escape - whether some small fraction of it can be converted to electricity, or not. You cannot keep it from leaving - nor can you force more of it to be converted than a matching band gap will permit. You cannot even reflect very much of it. You seem to be pulling the donkey with the cart. As a practical matter, even in a perfect vacuum - if you are removing electrical current, you must have conductive wires to do that. But the main problem is that IR will radiate from any surface - whether or not the means exists to convert part of it to electricity – which in your example depends on a succession of overlapping band gaps. You simply cannot “force” heat to be converted when there is an easier path - and since conversion is anti-entropic - the easy path is blackbody radiation without conversion. Whatever heat flux is not converted usually 95% of it - will radiate. Most of it will be missed - since IR conversion is inefficient. Having said that – cough, cough … you can follow up on the mysterious Qu-tube. It is one of those “holy grails” of alternative energy that has been around for years. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080009660_2008009120. pdf … said to be a superconductor of heat. But NASA did not confirm the claim. If Dr. Qu’s claim were to be true (and let me add that there are people who I respect who will tell you that they have seen it) - then it would potentially do most of what you suggest - to the extent that a superconductor of heat becomes a superconductor of electricity. But even so, this kind of tube would not qualify as thermophotovoltaic, at least not as defined in the article. It would simply be a superconductor of heat – where the “easy path” is a vector that is also anti-entopic. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
[Vo]:Re: Experimental Null test of a Mach Effect Thruster
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Hamdi Ucar u...@verisoft.com wrote: Hi Terry, Could you post this one on vortex? Thanks, Hamdi New paper at lanl.arXiv.org titled Experimental Null test of a Mach Effect Thruster from Heidi Fearn, James F. Woodward. They received positive results. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1301.6178
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:09 AM, James Bowery wrote: Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted was one guy:. A PhD with a specialty in a branch of relational mathematics who happened to have the unfortunate characteristic of being a US citizen. My request for this consultant was declined but I was offered all the H-1b visas from India I wanted. Literally. Guess what ethnicity was of the guy in charge of that project? The Fortune 500 is now taken over by India. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. As a result, many graduates are qualified only for low skilled jobs. Consequently, a big push is now underway by companies that have high skilled jobs to open more visa opportunities for skilled people from other countries to work here. Naturally, these skilled people are cheaper to hire than the older skilled people who are already here, which provides the basic incentive. I fear how the growing number of uneducated people will vote in the future. The population is almost equally divided now between people who do not have a clue and people who still can understand what is happening. The future does not look good. On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: It's funny and sad to see people in denial in the comments section. 2013/1/29 fznidar...@aol.com Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics
Jones, are you saying in simple terms that any thermophotovoltaic device immersed within a constant temperature environment saturated by infrared radiation will not produce electrical power? Does this imply that there must be a sink of some sort that is of lower temperature for these to function? It is understood that the energy remaining within the closed environment will be reduced by the electrical energy removed. Just asking for clarification. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:15 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics From: David Jonsson What I mean is that regardless of how efficient the thermophotovoltaic is there is no other way for heat-energy to escape the enclosure except as IR-light converted to electricity. That is naïve. IR light will escape - whether some small fraction of it can be converted to electricity, or not. You cannot keep it from leaving - nor can you force more of it to be converted than a matching band gap will permit. You cannot even reflect very much of it. You seem to be pulling the donkey with the cart. As a practical matter, even in a perfect vacuum - if you are removing electrical current, you must have conductive wires to do that. But the main problem is that IR will radiate from any surface - whether or not the means exists to convert part of it to electricity – which in your example depends on a succession of overlapping band gaps. You simply cannot “force” heat to be converted when there is an easier path - and since conversion is anti-entropic - the easy path is blackbody radiation without conversion. Whatever heat flux is not converted usually 95% of it - will radiate. Most of it will be missed - since IR conversion is inefficient. Having said that – cough, cough … you can follow up on the mysterious Qu-tube. It is one of those “holy grails” of alternative energy that has been around for years. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080009660_2008009120. pdf … said to be a superconductor of heat. But NASA did not confirm the claim. If Dr. Qu’s claim were to be true (and let me add that there are people who I respect who will tell you that they have seen it) - then it would potentially do most of what you suggest - to the extent that a superconductor of heat becomes a superconductor of electricity. But even so, this kind of tube would not qualify as thermophotovoltaic, at least not as defined in the article. It would simply be a superconductor of heat – where the “easy path” is a vector that is also anti-entopic. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
The low wage argument doesn't wash. The H-1b workers are not being paid below minimum wage and that's what the un/deremployed older engineers are getting. What is going on is an individualist culture is being taken over by, not one, but multiple nepotistic cultures. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:09 AM, James Bowery wrote: Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted was one guy:. A PhD with a specialty in a branch of relational mathematics who happened to have the unfortunate characteristic of being a US citizen. My request for this consultant was declined but I was offered all the H-1b visas from India I wanted. Literally. Guess what ethnicity was of the guy in charge of that project? The Fortune 500 is now taken over by India. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. As a result, many graduates are qualified only for low skilled jobs. Consequently, a big push is now underway by companies that have high skilled jobs to open more visa opportunities for skilled people from other countries to work here. Naturally, these skilled people are cheaper to hire than the older skilled people who are already here, which provides the basic incentive. I fear how the growing number of uneducated people will vote in the future. The population is almost equally divided now between people who do not have a clue and people who still can understand what is happening. The future does not look good. On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: It's funny and sad to see people in denial in the comments section. 2013/1/29 fznidar...@aol.com Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics
I read the article and it definitely states that the electricity is generated by a temperature differential. If you immerse the cell within a constant temperature environment, it appears as if you can not get any electrical energy. This is consistent with what I have seen in the past where two temperature sinks are required. Dave -Original Message- From: David Jonsson davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 8:29 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics So what is wrong with the Wikipedia article? What I mean is that regardless of how efficient the thermophotovoltaic is there is no other way for heat-energy to escape the enclosure except as IR-light converted to electricity. With this forced arrangement how can electricity generation be anything except 100 %? There is no Carnot cycle since energy flows from one end to the other. There is no cycle involved. David David Jonsson, Sweden, +46703000370 On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: David, You are possibly misreadingthis article. It is poorly written to begin with. Carnot efficiency affectsall heat engines in a similar way. Moreover, it is a basic limitationwhich deducts “off the top” so all other inefficiencies deduct from the lowernumber. From:David Jonsson Hi I have imagined using thermophotovoltaics to produce a highly efficientconversion from heat to electricity. Imagine having a heat source in a very thermally wellinsulated container. In the same container there is a thermophotovoltaic cellconverting the heat radiation into electricity. Wouldn't a cell like that be very efficient? Whatstops it from being 100 % efficient, or having its efficiency reduced only byleaks in the thermal insulation? Even if the Carnot efficiency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophotovoltaic#Efficiency is low it doesn't affect the total efficiency. Theemitter will always be hotter than the converter, since the converter convertssome of the heat radiation. There will always be some efficiency. Increase ofdark current, as Wikipedia mentions as a reason for efficiency decrease athigher temperature, should be the same in both directions in the converter andcould not lower efficiency. Either efficiency could be higher or the explanationsof the efficiency lowering effects are wrong. Best would be to build a device and see what willhappen. David
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:57 AM, James Bowery wrote: The low wage argument doesn't wash. The H-1b workers are not being paid below minimum wage and that's what the un/deremployed older engineers are getting. What is going on is an individualist culture is being taken over by, not one, but multiple nepotistic cultures. This might be true on a few occasions, but it is not true throughout the economy based on my experience. I would like to hear from some people who actually decide whom to hire. Is this conclusion by David valid? Ed On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:09 AM, James Bowery wrote: Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted was one guy:. A PhD with a specialty in a branch of relational mathematics who happened to have the unfortunate characteristic of being a US citizen. My request for this consultant was declined but I was offered all the H-1b visas from India I wanted. Literally. Guess what ethnicity was of the guy in charge of that project? The Fortune 500 is now taken over by India. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. As a result, many graduates are qualified only for low skilled jobs. Consequently, a big push is now underway by companies that have high skilled jobs to open more visa opportunities for skilled people from other countries to work here. Naturally, these skilled people are cheaper to hire than the older skilled people who are already here, which provides the basic incentive. I fear how the growing number of uneducated people will vote in the future. The population is almost equally divided now between people who do not have a clue and people who still can understand what is happening. The future does not look good. On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: It's funny and sad to see people in denial in the comments section. 2013/1/29 fznidar...@aol.com Unemployment dropping? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/28/college-educated-over-qualified-study/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D262707 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
I am an engineering manager in the consulting engineer business. I do run across cultural nepotism occasionally; but, right now, there is a shortage of good engineering talent. In my business, money is rarely the issue . . . it is expertise. I have two large engineering firms to draw from, AECOM in the US and Atkins in GB fortunately. In our local group, most of the engineers are around 60 years old. Most of us are systems engineers with communications and transportation experience. We are presently taking in kids right out of school and training them; but, people who have a good work ethic are getting hard to find. There seems to be a prevaling sense of entitlement in this generation.
Re: [Vo]:Does p+B11 Explain Both Cold Fusion and Papp's Secret?
An update to the p+B11 = 2He4 explanation of the Papp engine:
US Patent # 4,023,065 ~ May., 1977; Koloc 376/146 is cited by Papp in US
Patent # 4,428,193. Koloc's patent is targets plasmoid formation in a
compression chamber for the purposes of p+B11 = 3He4 +energy.
The apparent source of the claim that Papp was getting boron ash (amofphous
boron powder is the brown powder) resulting from the fusion of helium
with itself was John Rohner in an interview with Larry
Seyerhttp://larryseyer.com/index.php/radio-shows/tmdd/tmdd-podcast/939-john-p-rohner-ceo-of-intelligentry
and
John Rohner is claiming that he is now able to burn the boron to produce
helium.
Following through on this, I found a plausible nucleosynthesis route:
He3+He4 = Be7 + 0.00170147u energy
3.0160293+4.002602-7.01692983 = 0.00170147
Be7 has a half-life of 53 days*. Quite long enough for another He4 fusion:
Be7+He4 = C11 + 0.00809823u energy
7.01692983+4.002602-11.0114336 = 0.00809823
(*Caveat: Be7 decays only by electron capture and that an enhanced presence
of electrons will speed up its decay into Li7 which would allow p+Li7 =
2He4 + energy.)
Moreover C11 has a half-life of 20 minutes and beta-decays to B11 by
positron emission, so after a long run it is plausible there would be
noticable amorphous (brown) boron powder.
At this point we have only to add protium (H1) to return to He4 ash via:
p+B11 = 3He4
Doing the economics of He3, it is plausible that, given the price of He3
during Papp's original work, Papp's secret ingredient in his fuel was pure
He3, rather than p+B11 -- that the boron powder observed really was a
fusion product (ash) as claimed by Papp via John Rohner. (The natural
occurrence of He3 in Helium gas isn't even close to the energy density
required to run the demonstrations.)
However, He3 has recently auctioned for $2000/liter.
Given that price for He3, the economics of He3 don't look good even
including completion of burn-up via p+B11 = 3He4 as reported by John
Rohner:
He3+2*He4+p = 3*He4 + 0.0212523u
where p stands for 'protium' or H1
3.0160293+2*4.002602+1.007825-3*4.002602 = 0.0212523
In other words, if you take 12grams of a gas that is 3gm of He3, 8gm of He4
and 1gm of p, and burn it through the entire cycle of Be7=C11=B11=He
you'll get:
0.0212523g*c^2?kWh
(0.0212523 * gramm) * (speed_of_light^2) ? kilo*Wh
= 530571.01 kWh
To get that much energy we had to purchase 3gm of He3 at $2000/liter:
3g/530571.01 kWh;.17g/l;2000dollar/l?dollar/kWh
([{3 * gramm} / {530571.01 * (kilo*Wh)}] * [{0.17 * gramm} / liter]^-1) *
([2000 * dollar] / liter) ? dollar / (kilo*Wh)
= 0.066521007 dollar/kWh
Although a fuel price of 7 cents per kWh output isn't outlandishly high for
electricity, it certainly isn't nearly as cheap as what you can achieve by
simply adding p and B11 directly to the chamber.
Moreover, I haven't done the coulomb barrier calculations on the B11
nucleosynthesis -- so even though it may be quite feasible within some
stellar cores, it isn't clear it could be achieved in a Papp engine
plasmoid.
Assuming:
1. The Papp engine is actually an p+B11=3He4 reactor diluted by noble
gasses to make the energy density manageable within an internal combusion
engine.
2. The mechanism of the p+B11=3He4 reaction is a compound plasma
structure described by US Patent # 4,023,065 ~ May., 1977; Koloc 376/146
cited by Papp in US Patent # 4,428,193.
3. There is substantially no waste heat.
We are led to the most likely hypotheses that:
1. The energetic alphas (3He4) are being converted to electrical energy
through electrohydrodynamics.
2. The compound plasma structure's intense magnetic field is the means
by which these energetic alphas are columnated for EHD generation.
3. There is an efficient way to reverse the construction of the compound
plasma structure, such that its highly columnated energetic alphas produce
charging current for the paired cylinder leaving unionized He4 at
relatively low temperature as a result of the return stroke of the cylinder.
It should be noted here that under these hypotheses the energy output of
the Papp engine is relatively constant as the dilution ratio cannot be
changed and that, therefore, when it is not under mechanical load is has to
dump large amounts of electrical energy somehow. A failure to dump this
electrical energy could result in what we saw in the Feynman fiasco as the
plasmoid generation current increased with each cycle.
It should also be noted that it is not necessarily the case that the
released energy contributes substantially the mechanical force against the
piston of the reacting plasma structure during that power stroke -- that
its contribution is to the energy available for the formation of the plasma
structure in the opposing cylinder's next cycle, hence that cylinder's
potential for mechanical force against its piston.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:51 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Pyrex is
[Vo]:Vanishing tritium at BARC
The paper I uploaded the other day says: [All] these three cells, which were sampled and counted periodically, have displayed a characteristic oscillatory variation of the tritium activity. While an in-crease in tritium level can be understood as a production phase, the decreasing phase, lasting from 5 to 10 days (in one case up to 20 days), is difficult to understand. A close scrutiny of our sampling, distilling, and counting techniques confirms that the decrease in tritium level is genuine and not attributable to any artifact. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Sankaranarinvestigatb.pdf See Figs. 1, 2 and 3. Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to why the tritium goes away? That being consumed by a secondary reaction? Absorbed by something? I doubt it is leaking out. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
A position with a consulting engineering firm is not the same as a job with the Fortune 500 -- and it is no surprise that otherwise unemployable older engineers are ending up in consulting engineering firms that may service the Fortune 500. It is an obvious market niche and it is good to hear it is providing some relief but the economic rent seekers gravitate to ensconced positions -- full benefits, etc -- in the Fortune 500 which have the resources to pursue public sector rent seeking as well as private sector rent seeking. One acquaintance of mine from the PLATO days was with the Open Source Development Labs and doing consulting, recently died due to no health insurance. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: I am an engineering manager in the consulting engineer business. I do run across cultural nepotism occasionally; but, right now, there is a shortage of good engineering talent. In my business, money is rarely the issue . . . it is expertise. I have two large engineering firms to draw from, AECOM in the US and Atkins in GB fortunately. In our local group, most of the engineers are around 60 years old. Most of us are systems engineers with communications and transportation experience. We are presently taking in kids right out of school and training them; but, people who have a good work ethic are getting hard to find. There seems to be a prevaling sense of entitlement in this generation.
RE: [Vo]:100% conversion of heat to electricity with thermophotovoltaics
From: David Roberson Jones, are you saying in simple terms that any thermophotovoltaic device immersed within a constant temperature environment saturated by infrared radiation will not produce electrical power? Does this imply that there must be a sink of some sort that is of lower temperature for these to function? YES - for normal heat engines - but Dave – you well know that there must be a sink ! … at least normally, so why do I suspect that your are holding something back? … or should I rephrase it: can anyone please show us proof of any non-imaginary device that works without a sink… and pulleeeze don’t bring up the Quentron/Hardcastle BS or the Russian scam where the incubator is supplying a strong 50 Hz signal.. There are plenty of imaginary devices that claim to work on paper, but do not work in practice. Even the Qu tube needs a sink. OK – let me rephrase that with one big caveat: yes - the “virtual sink” – and yes, if something like the Nickel-titanium endothermic effect seen by Ahern and others is correct – then that is indeed a kind of virtual sink. But that virtual sink does not seem to part of the original suggestion, as I understand it, and bears little relationship to thermophotovoltaics. Also it only works way above ambient. It is understood that the energy remaining within the closed environment will be reduced by the electrical energy removed. If and when that happens, and there is power going out - then an instantaneous thermal drop happens on the supply side of the device following which, it then becomes the sink, which stops the flow. End of story without a persistent virtual sink. But the problem with a virtual sink (of the kind which has been demonstrated) is that the “gap” is still always way above ambient – so it is by nature lossy and only a differential gap. A good analogy is the so-called “negative resistor” which is negative for only a small part of the spectrum and should be called a negative differential resistor. It is far from gainful. In the end - if you want to find a practical and gainful heat-to-electricity device close to ambient, then provide the virtual sink well below ambient. That may be difficult, but Dirac permits it – and I would never argue with PAM.
RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Ed, This is another reason why Second Incomes not dependent upon jobs or savings are becoming so important. When a substantial portion of income,the goal is half by about age 50, is derived from diversified investments - individuals have the time and money to pursue more of what they want to do, rather then what they are forced to do by circumstance. Aesop Institute intends to offer an on-line course about this plan, and the binary economics invented by Louis Kelso that led him to develop the Second Income idea. Gary Reber, who will develop the course, has a website foreconomicjustice.org devoted to the subject. Second Incomes on the www.aesopinstitute.org website provides additional information for anyone who might be interested. Mark Mark Goldes Co-Founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org 707 861-9070 707 497-3551 fax From: Edmund Storms [stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:07 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:57 AM, James Bowery wrote: The low wage argument doesn't wash. The H-1b workers are not being paid below minimum wage and that's what the un/deremployed older engineers are getting. What is going on is an individualist culture is being taken over by, not one, but multiple nepotistic cultures. This might be true on a few occasions, but it is not true throughout the economy based on my experience. I would like to hear from some people who actually decide whom to hire. Is this conclusion by David valid? Ed On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:09 AM, James Bowery wrote: Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted was one guy:. A PhD with a specialty in a branch of relational mathematics who happened to have the unfortunate characteristic of being a US citizen. My request for this consultant was declined but I was offered all the H-1b visas from India I wanted. Literally. Guess what ethnicity was of the guy in charge of that project? The Fortune 500 is now taken over by India. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. As a result, many graduates are qualified only for low skilled jobs. Consequently, a big push is now underway by companies that have high skilled jobs to open more visa opportunities for skilled people from other countries to work here. Naturally, these skilled people are cheaper to hire than the older skilled people who are already here, which provides the basic incentive. I fear how the growing number of uneducated people will vote in the future. The population is almost equally divided now between people who do not have a clue and people who still can understand what is happening. The future does not look good. On Jan
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
I agree Mark, a second income is important. Cold fusion had provided that for me until recently. Nevertheless, I find that a second income is not easy to achieve while still having time for anything else. Of course, giving a course on second income can be a second income.;-) A friend makes soup and sells it to her neighbors, who fortunately have enough money to buy soup. Another friend cleans houses, so jobs are available that can supplement a less than adequate income from a regular job - so I see your point. Ed On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Mark Goldes wrote: Ed, This is another reason why Second Incomes not dependent upon jobs or savings are becoming so important. When a substantial portion of income,the goal is half by about age 50, is derived from diversified investments - individuals have the time and money to pursue more of what they want to do, rather then what they are forced to do by circumstance. Aesop Institute intends to offer an on-line course about this plan, and the binary economics invented by Louis Kelso that led him to develop the Second Income idea. Gary Reber, who will develop the course, has a website foreconomicjustice.org devoted to the subject. Second Incomes on the www.aesopinstitute.org website provides additional information for anyone who might be interested. Mark Mark Goldes Co-Founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org 707 861-9070 707 497-3551 fax From: Edmund Storms [stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:07 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:57 AM, James Bowery wrote: The low wage argument doesn't wash. The H-1b workers are not being paid below minimum wage and that's what the un/deremployed older engineers are getting. What is going on is an individualist culture is being taken over by, not one, but multiple nepotistic cultures. This might be true on a few occasions, but it is not true throughout the economy based on my experience. I would like to hear from some people who actually decide whom to hire. Is this conclusion by David valid? Ed On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:09 AM, James Bowery wrote: Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted was one guy:. A PhD with a specialty in a branch of relational mathematics who happened to have the unfortunate characteristic of being a US citizen. My request for this consultant was declined but I was offered all the H-1b visas from India I wanted. Literally. Guess what ethnicity was of the guy in charge of that project? The Fortune 500 is now taken over by India. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Not just sad but scary because such an apparent lack of education is revealed in the comments. We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and
RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Ed, What is important to recognize about this economic invention - is that it is not related to jobs or savings. This is a revolutionary idea - with potential impact at least as great as LENR. If opens a path to the most genuinely free society in human history. And can be adapted in most industrial nations. Mark Mark Goldes Co-Founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org 707 861-9070 707 497-3551 fax From: Edmund Storms [stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:35 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment I agree Mark, a second income is important. Cold fusion had provided that for me until recently. Nevertheless, I find that a second income is not easy to achieve while still having time for anything else. Of course, giving a course on second income can be a second income.;-) A friend makes soup and sells it to her neighbors, who fortunately have enough money to buy soup. Another friend cleans houses, so jobs are available that can supplement a less than adequate income from a regular job - so I see your point. Ed On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Mark Goldes wrote: Ed, This is another reason why Second Incomes not dependent upon jobs or savings are becoming so important. When a substantial portion of income,the goal is half by about age 50, is derived from diversified investments - individuals have the time and money to pursue more of what they want to do, rather then what they are forced to do by circumstance. Aesop Institute intends to offer an on-line course about this plan, and the binary economics invented by Louis Kelso that led him to develop the Second Income idea. Gary Reber, who will develop the course, has a website foreconomicjustice.org devoted to the subject. Second Incomes on the www.aesopinstitute.org website provides additional information for anyone who might be interested. Mark Mark Goldes Co-Founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org 707 861-9070 707 497-3551 fax From: Edmund Storms [stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:07 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:57 AM, James Bowery wrote: The low wage argument doesn't wash. The H-1b workers are not being paid below minimum wage and that's what the un/deremployed older engineers are getting. What is going on is an individualist culture is being taken over by, not one, but multiple nepotistic cultures. This might be true on a few occasions, but it is not true throughout the economy based on my experience. I would like to hear from some people who actually decide whom to hire. Is this conclusion by David valid? Ed On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:09 AM, James Bowery wrote: Garbage. I know lots of US engineers who have been out of work for years and are not being hired even though they are doing occasional contract work at what amounts to below minimum wage. These aren't just any old engineers. They include guys who built the Internet and have current skills. Clue: HP spent a half billion dollars on Internet Chapter 2. Due to my long history with the Internet (chief architect of ATT's foray into electronic newspapers with Knight-Rider 1982 as well as previously being on the PLATO system programming staff for CDC), they tried to get me in and I repeatedly declined because what they said they were doing made no sense and I knew exactly what was needed for Internet Chapter 2 having, in my capacity with ATT, worked directly with David P. Reed during the time he was authoring the End to End Arguments paper. I finally agreed to come on board if they would let me have a little corner of the project -- remember we're talking $500M of risk capital here -- the largest single lump-sum invested during the dotcom bubble and it was being invested by Silicon Valley's founding company. All I wanted
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:47 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: A position with a consulting engineering firm is not the same as a job with the Fortune 500 -- and it is no surprise that otherwise unemployable older engineers are ending up in consulting engineering firms that may service the Fortune 500. It is an obvious market niche and it is good to hear it is providing some relief but the economic rent seekers gravitate to ensconced positions -- full benefits, etc -- in the Fortune 500 which have the resources to pursue public sector rent seeking as well as private sector rent seeking. One acquaintance of mine from the PLATO days was with the Open Source Development Labs and doing consulting, recently died due to no health insurance. I have full benefits. All of us do. We're not contract consultants. We are employed by consulting firms who farm us out on a project by project basis. I have been 100% billable for the past 23 years. One of the more difficult tasks as a consulting engineer is lining up your projects. Or, in my case, finding engineers for my projects. There is a market out there for a software package which will automatically align project requirements with engineering talents. Right now, it is done pretty much by humint networking. I'm talking about a database which would connect 50,000 engineers with, say, 10,000 projects. I have seen a few such software packages, but they are less than perfect. Most are.
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Vanishing tritium at BARC
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: That being consumed by a secondary reaction? That is Defkalion's position. They say there are several stages of reactions occurring.
Re: [Vo]:Vanishing tritium at BARC
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to why the tritium goes away? That being consumed by a secondary reaction? Absorbed by something? I doubt it is leaking out. I like Terry's idea. The obvious thing to be ruled out is artefact due to variability in the cosmic ray background, which I assume they will have succeeded in doing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
As for the poor educational outcomes of the US vs other countries: When adjusted for economic class, the US is near the top. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/01/15/u-s-scores-on-international-test-lowered-by-sampling-error-report/ On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Vanishing tritium at BARC
Isn't that also what Robert Godes hypothesizes Tritrium - Quadrium which is where the heat is produced? On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to why the tritium goes away? That being consumed by a secondary reaction? Absorbed by something? I doubt it is leaking out. I like Terry's idea. The obvious thing to be ruled out is artefact due to variability in the cosmic ray background, which I assume they will have succeeded in doing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what would happen and when - three years later from this article. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. I also do not like to be in a panic. As a result, I lost a lot of money during the 2008 collapse by not taking the panic seriously. I do not intend to let this happen again. Ed We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Business Insider recently reported that Krugman may be discreetly admitting that he has made a serious oversight with regard to the viability of Social Security. Automation is eliminating jobs at such a rate that the payroll tax funding source may be in peril. From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:30 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what would happen and when - three years later from this article. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. I also do not like to be in a panic. As a result, I lost a lot of money during the 2008 collapse by not taking the panic seriously. I do not intend to let this happen again. Ed We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
I'm always amazed, no matter what the conclusion, someone can always find evidence for the opposite. Here are some contrary opinions. I expect the economic class has an influence and some fraction of any population will always be well educated and some fraction will be poorly educated. The question is how many people in the US are able to hold the kind of jobs that need skill. This number appears to be going down. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/national-math-reading-test-scores-2011_n_1068474.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/25/AR2011012502534.html Ed On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:23 PM, James Bowery wrote: As for the poor educational outcomes of the US vs other countries: When adjusted for economic class, the US is near the top. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/01/15/u-s-scores-on-international-test-lowered-by-sampling-error-report/ On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I think you refer to your country. Yes But, I wouldn't be sure about people that goes to work there. From my personal experience, people who go to work in your country are selected in a much wider population than among your own and accept to work there with an wage bellow what people with the same high skill would get. People come to the US for many reasons. But, I agree, a tendency exists to pay them less than US citizens. Ed 2013/1/29 Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com We all agree that standards have been lowered for both high-school and college degrees. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
I have to agree with Terry here. As a hiring manager in the software industry (more specifically internet) over the last few years I've found it is more and more difficult to find adequate talent and or work ethic and motivation - especially amongst the younger generation. There seems to be a prevaling sense of entitlement in this generation. I was forwarded this article recently discussing this very topic. Found it interesting in some ways as being a technologist my entire life it is written from the perspective of someone with a business/sales background. http://www.millersmoney.com/money-weekly/straight-talk-for-the-underemployed-youth Joe On 01/29/2013 01:27 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: I am an engineering manager in the consulting engineer business. I do run across cultural nepotism occasionally; but, right now, there is a shortage of good engineering talent. In my business, money is rarely the issue . . . it is expertise. I have two large engineering firms to draw from, AECOM in the US and Atkins in GB fortunately. In our local group, most of the engineers are around 60 years old. Most of us are systems engineers with communications and transportation experience. We are presently taking in kids right out of school and training them; but, people who have a good work ethic are getting hard to find. There seems to be a prevaling sense of entitlement in this generation.
Re: [Vo]:Vanishing tritium at BARC
seems a possible direction. I remember also that some reports claim that heat and radiation (??? neutrons or gamm, don't remind) are exclusives... the multi-stage hypothesis seems credible. and if the neutrons produced where simply neutrons too fast to merge with hydrogenup... 2013/1/29 Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com Isn't that also what Robert Godes hypothesizes Tritrium - Quadrium which is where the heat is produced? On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to why the tritium goes away? That being consumed by a secondary reaction? Absorbed by something? I doubt it is leaking out. I like Terry's idea. The obvious thing to be ruled out is artefact due to variability in the cosmic ray background, which I assume they will have succeeded in doing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Ed: The housing bubble didn't almost bring down the entire world economy. That is pure sensationalism. As with any bubble, when it pops those holding the bag usually suffer. In the case of 2008, the bag holders got the world governments to spread the suffering. Your comments sound like many of the doomsday predictors, peak oil etc so prevalent today. Your concern is understandable given this age of pessimism but instead of getting worked up maybe you should stick to LENR, if that technology verifies this age of pessimism will certainly end and all your concerns will evaporate. By the way, my take is that this age of pessimism is going to end soon even without LENR. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what would happen and when - three years later from this article. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. I also do not like to be in a panic. As a result, I lost a lot of money during the 2008 collapse by not taking the panic seriously. I do not intend to let this happen again. Ed We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2639/5565 - Release Date: 01/29/13
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Ed: The housing bubble didn't almost bring down the entire world economy. That is pure sensationalism. As with any bubble, when it pops those holding the bag usually suffer. In the case of 2008, the bag holders got the world governments to spread the suffering. That conclusion is in conflict with what was claimed at the time and provided justification for the Tarp funding. As for pessimism, this is the description someone applies when they do not believe what is being described. The description is acknowledged as being a true representation of reality if a person believes what is said. The question at this point is, who's view of reality is correct? In 2008 and in 1929, a pessimist would have taken their money out of the stock market. The optimist did not. Your choice. We all make choices that have consequences and these choices must be based on what is real. I'm trying to understand what is real. Are you? By the way, what ends the age of pessimism? Do people get their jobs and homes back? How soon does this happen? Ed Your comments sound like many of the doomsday predictors, peak oil etc so prevalent today. Your concern is understandable given this age of pessimism but instead of getting worked up maybe you should stick to LENR, if that technology verifies this age of pessimism will certainly end and all your concerns will evaporate. By the way, my take is that this age of pessimism is going to end soon even without LENR. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what would happen and when - three years later from this article. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. I also do not like to be in a panic. As a result, I lost a lot of money during the 2008 collapse by not taking the panic seriously. I do not intend to let this happen again. Ed We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2639/5565 - Release Date: 01/29/13
[Vo]:Like charges attract each other
http://sciencefeature.com/2012/05/20/attraction-between-like-charges.html My comments awaiting moderation. Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
Re: [Vo]:Like charges attract each other
Interesting phenomena. It is clear that when one places an electron between two protons, they are all three attracted toward the center. This appears to be somewhat like that. The concentrated local induced field wins out over the larger distributed one. The suggests to me that the reason that an electron can not act at as perfect shield between a pair of protons allowing them to fuse readily is because of the electrons distributed nature. Dave -Original Message- From: Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: teslafy tesl...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:44 pm Subject: [Vo]:Like charges attract each other http://sciencefeature.com/2012/05/20/attraction-between-like-charges.html My comments awaiting moderation. Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Call it social security, call it a citizen dividend, call it whatever you want, if world productivity continues to increase (ie, more is available to distribute) so will the give away to those living and not producing or not producing much. Even if no one is working we will find a way to allocate the goods to those living on this planet, unless you want to give it to the robots who are doing the work. In essence funding is unnecessary, allocating the productions is all that is needed. Many of you are missing the point of the article on automation, the only thing that really matters is whether the pie increases and it is, dividing it up is never easy but will always be resolved by some method. However as to the method, what I am hearing is this antiquated notion that Human Beings are really productive today or ultimately needed for production. That may be true of some of us but far fewer then in the past and far more today then will be needed in the future. Most of us even now are just entertaining each other. It is made up work. Everyone needs to get used to it and we really do need to find a better way to allocate the productivity of the world. The problem in a service society is average ability is practically unwanted. We all want the services of those on the edge of the bell shaped curve (those with something exceptional to give), so those are the ones who get paid a lot. Everyone else is interchangeable and not worth spit and paid accordingly. So is that how you all want to allocate resources in the future? A tiny portion of the world population have 99% of what is produced and everyone else lives poorly (keeping in mind that we will be able to produce enough to allow everyone to live like the kings of the past if we want.) I don't think that is such a good idea, We need a better way to allocate production. We also need to expand beyond this planet to give us something to do before we go stir crazy. - Original Message - From: Chris Zell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment Business Insider recently reported that Krugman may be discreetly admitting that he has made a serious oversight with regard to the viability of Social Security. Automation is eliminating jobs at such a rate that the payroll tax funding source may be in peril. -- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:30 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what would happen and when - three years later from this article. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. I also do not like to be in a panic. As a result, I lost a lot of money during the 2008 collapse by not taking the panic seriously. I do not intend to let this happen again. Ed We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was riding a trolley car past the Blair House on November 1, 1950. President Truman was living there while the White House was being rebuilt. There was a series of loud bangs. Someone said, they're trying to assassinate the president!! My mother said, don't be silly; it is just a car backfiring and went back to her newspaper. It turned out someone was trying to assassinate the president. - Jed No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Time to work toward implementing a Second Income Plan. The idea originated with the late Louis O. Kelso, father of the Employee Stock Ownership Plan used by 11,000 companies. It does not depend upon jobs or savings. See SECOND INCOMES at www.aesopinstitute.org for the most recent version. Kelso saw automation coming. He believed it could liberate humans from toil, work we do not choose to do. He believed that by about age 50 almost everyone in America could receive sufficient income from diversified investments to allow toil to drop to perhaps 20 hours per week. That achievement could make possible the first genuinely free society in human history. If we are wise, we will bring it into being as rapidly as is humanly possible. Here is a link to an excellent article about Kelso’s ideas: We Are For Economic Justice by Gary Reber http://foreconomicjustice.org/11/economic-justice/#comment-2388 Poverty would be eradicated and inequality dramatically reduced in a manner totally consistent with our highest ideals. Enact the Capital Homestead Act to create new owners of future productive capital investment in businesses simultaneously with the growth of the economy and thereby broaden private, individual ownership of America's future capital wealth. The CHA would enable every man, woman and child to establish a Capital Homestead Account or CHA (a super-IRA or asset tax-shelter for citizens) at their local bank to acquire a growing dividend-bearing stock portfolio to supplement their incomes from work and all other sources of income. This link provides a video introduction to this plan: http://youtu.be/odDGX8q2o3I Mark Mark Goldes Co-Founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org 707 861-9070 707 497-3551 fax From: Randy wuller [rwul...@freeark.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment Call it social security, call it a citizen dividend, call it whatever you want, if world productivity continues to increase (ie, more is available to distribute) so will the give away to those living and not producing or not producing much. Even if no one is working we will find a way to allocate the goods to those living on this planet, unless you want to give it to the robots who are doing the work. In essence funding is unnecessary, allocating the productions is all that is needed. Many of you are missing the point of the article on automation, the only thing that really matters is whether the pie increases and it is, dividing it up is never easy but will always be resolved by some method. However as to the method, what I am hearing is this antiquated notion that Human Beings are really productive today or ultimately needed for production. That may be true of some of us but far fewer then in the past and far more today then will be needed in the future. Most of us even now are just entertaining each other. It is made up work. Everyone needs to get used to it and we really do need to find a better way to allocate the productivity of the world. The problem in a service society is average ability is practically unwanted. We all want the services of those on the edge of the bell shaped curve (those with something exceptional to give), so those are the ones who get paid a lot. Everyone else is interchangeable and not worth spit and paid accordingly. So is that how you all want to allocate resources in the future? A tiny portion of the world population have 99% of what is produced and everyone else lives poorly (keeping in mind that we will be able to produce enough to allow everyone to live like the kings of the past if we want.) I don't think that is such a good idea, We need a better way to allocate production. We also need to expand beyond this planet to give us something to do before we go stir crazy. - Original Message - From: Chris Zellmailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment Business Insider recently reported that Krugman may be discreetly admitting that he has made a serious oversight with regard to the viability of Social Security. Automation is eliminating jobs at such a rate that the payroll tax funding source may be in peril. From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:30 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Ed: An idiot would have taken their money out of the stock market in 2008 and 1929. Now a really good prognosticator would have taken their money out in 2007 and 1928 and put it right back into the market in 2009 and 1930, (but if you know any of those, you may want them to take a lie detector test) but truly pessimistic people rarely (the type who would have taken it out in 2007) find the courage to put it back in. They just see the next disaster. However, had you stayed the course, your assets would be worth more today than in 2007. Also, keep in mind that secular bear markets (like the one we have been in since 2000) have a tendency to run their course in 15 years or so and we are at 13 now, so the market bear is getting really long in the tooth. And what ends the age of pessimism is always interesting and rarely identified until years later. I suspect it will have something to do with energy because that is one of the governors restricting world growth today. Which by the way is the reason I have been watching LENR and chose to sign up to the Vortex. Nanotechnology may also be the stimulus. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Ed: The housing bubble didn't almost bring down the entire world economy. That is pure sensationalism. As with any bubble, when it pops those holding the bag usually suffer. In the case of 2008, the bag holders got the world governments to spread the suffering. That conclusion is in conflict with what was claimed at the time and provided justification for the Tarp funding. As for pessimism, this is the description someone applies when they do not believe what is being described. The description is acknowledged as being a true representation of reality if a person believes what is said. The question at this point is, who's view of reality is correct? In 2008 and in 1929, a pessimist would have taken their money out of the stock market. The optimist did not. Your choice. We all make choices that have consequences and these choices must be based on what is real. I'm trying to understand what is real. Are you? By the way, what ends the age of pessimism? Do people get their jobs and homes back? How soon does this happen? Ed Your comments sound like many of the doomsday predictors, peak oil etc so prevalent today. Your concern is understandable given this age of pessimism but instead of getting worked up maybe you should stick to LENR, if that technology verifies this age of pessimism will certainly end and all your concerns will evaporate. By the way, my take is that this age of pessimism is going to end soon even without LENR. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what would happen and when - three years later from this article. In fact the difference is frightening similar to that earlier. Krugman sees no problem with the status quo while the people I read are in a panic. Wrong again. He is very much against the status quo. He is not in a panic for the same reason I am not, and my mother would not be. It is a personality thing. I also do not like to be in a panic. As a result, I lost a lot of money during the 2008 collapse by not taking the panic seriously. I do not intend to let this happen again. Ed We don't get into a tizzy, perhaps even when we should. Case in point: my mother was
Re: [Vo]:Like charges attract each other
Nice article. Makes me wonder if the strong force is necessary to explain nuclear cohesion. Harry On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com wrote: http://sciencefeature.com/2012/05/20/attraction-between-like-charges.html My comments awaiting moderation. Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Randy, a lot depends upon which companies you invested in before the crash. I put a fair amount of faith that GM would not be allowed to fail since it has a powerful union that has a great deal of influence upon the democratic party. My logic was that there was no possibility that the democrats would allow the union to be busted which usually happens when a company goes bankrupt. That was my mistake. The unions came out relatively secure, the bond holders got hit, while the share holders got ruined. I found out that the government has a lot of leeway as to how they interfere with private industry. If you can put money on the unions, you will be fine when democrats are in power. Better to stay away from industry that might have problems under these conditions, even those with a fantastic track record such as the auto industry. It is not entirely clear as to what would have been the outcome had the republicans kept control, but I bet the unions would have not been so fortunate. Dave -Original Message- From: Randy wuller rwul...@freeark.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment Ed: An idiot would have taken their money out of the stock market in 2008 and 1929. Now a really good prognosticator would have taken their money out in 2007 and 1928 and put it right back into the market in 2009 and 1930, (but if you know any of those, you may want them to take a lie detector test) but truly pessimistic people rarely (the type who would have taken it out in 2007) find the courage to put it back in. They just see the next disaster. However, had you stayed the course, your assets would be worth more today than in 2007. Also, keep in mind that secular bear markets (like the one we have been in since 2000) have a tendency to run their course in 15 years or so and we are at 13 now, so the market bear is getting really long in the tooth. And what ends the age of pessimism is always interesting and rarely identified until years later. I suspect it will have something to do with energy because that is one of the governors restricting world growth today. Which by the way is the reason I have been watching LENR and chose to sign up to the Vortex. Nanotechnology may also be the stimulus. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Ed: The housing bubble didn't almost bring down the entire world economy. That is pure sensationalism. As with any bubble, when it pops those holding the bag usually suffer. In the case of 2008, the bag holders got the world governments to spread the suffering. That conclusion is in conflict with what was claimed at the time and provided justification for the Tarp funding. As for pessimism, this is the description someone applies when they do not believe what is being described. The description is acknowledged as being a true representation of reality if a person believes what is said. The question at this point is, who's view of reality is correct? In 2008 and in 1929, a pessimist would have taken their money out of the stock market. The optimist did not. Your choice. We all make choices that have consequences and these choices must be based on what is real. I'm trying to understand what is real. Are you? By the way, what ends the age of pessimism? Do people get their jobs and homes back? How soon does this happen? Ed Your comments sound like many of the doomsday predictors, peak oil etc so prevalent today. Your concern is understandable given this age of pessimism but instead of getting worked up maybe you should stick to LENR, if that technology verifies this age of pessimism will certainly end and all your concerns will evaporate. By the way, my take is that this age of pessimism is going to end soon even without LENR. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
I agree Randy, we need a way to distribute the goodies being made increasingly without human help. The free enterprise system worked well in the past and many other ideas have failed. However, transition to a new system will not be easy. I suggest every one read the book Essentials of Economics. I was impressed about how the system actually works in contrast to the impression I got from less educated sources. The system is a well oiled machine with interconnected parts, all of which have to interact in certain ways. Of course, governments often throw sand in the works. Nevertheless, certain rules must be followed or the machine stops working. Before people suggest what is required to solve the growing problem of robots, I suggest you learn about how the machine actually works. By the way, this problem is not new. Machines have been taking over for almost 200 years with growing effect. The only difference is that the machines are now moving up the food chain and starting to affect a growing number of people especially at the higher skill and economic level. The natural expectation is that we all can be replaced - or is that too pessimistic? Ed On Jan 29, 2013, at 3:07 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Call it social security, call it a citizen dividend, call it whatever you want, if world productivity continues to increase (ie, more is available to distribute) so will the give away to those living and not producing or not producing much. Even if no one is working we will find a way to allocate the goods to those living on this planet, unless you want to give it to the robots who are doing the work. In essence funding is unnecessary, allocating the productions is all that is needed. Many of you are missing the point of the article on automation, the only thing that really matters is whether the pie increases and it is, dividing it up is never easy but will always be resolved by some method. However as to the method, what I am hearing is this antiquated notion that Human Beings are really productive today or ultimately needed for production. That may be true of some of us but far fewer then in the past and far more today then will be needed in the future. Most of us even now are just entertaining each other. It is made up work. Everyone needs to get used to it and we really do need to find a better way to allocate the productivity of the world. The problem in a service society is average ability is practically unwanted. We all want the services of those on the edge of the bell shaped curve (those with something exceptional to give), so those are the ones who get paid a lot. Everyone else is interchangeable and not worth spit and paid accordingly. So is that how you all want to allocate resources in the future? A tiny portion of the world population have 99% of what is produced and everyone else lives poorly (keeping in mind that we will be able to produce enough to allow everyone to live like the kings of the past if we want.) I don't think that is such a good idea, We need a better way to allocate production. We also need to expand beyond this planet to give us something to do before we go stir crazy. - Original Message - From: Chris Zell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment Business Insider recently reported that Krugman may be discreetly admitting that he has made a serious oversight with regard to the viability of Social Security. Automation is eliminating jobs at such a rate that the payroll tax funding source may be in peril. From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:30 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was Sir Greenspan. Meanwhile, other people were very exact about what
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Jan 29, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Ed: An idiot would have taken their money out of the stock market in 2008 and 1929. Unfortunately most of the world is an idiot. Nevertheless, I take your point. Now a really good prognosticator would have taken their money out in 2007 and 1928 and put it right back into the market in 2009 and 1930, (but if you know any of those, you may want them to take a lie detector test) but truly pessimistic people rarely (the type who would have taken it out in 2007) find the courage to put it back in. They just see the next disaster. However, had you stayed the course, your assets would be worth more today than in 2007. Also, keep in mind that secular bear markets (like the one we have been in since 2000) have a tendency to run their course in 15 years or so and we are at 13 now, so the market bear is getting really long in the tooth. And what ends the age of pessimism is always interesting and rarely identified until years later. I suspect it will have something to do with energy because that is one of the governors restricting world growth today. Which by the way is the reason I have been watching LENR and chose to sign up to the Vortex. Nanotechnology may also be the stimulus. Yes Randy, staying in would have been wise. Getting out in 2007 and getting back in in 2009 would have been better. But who knew? Now the situation is starting to repeat according to some observers because the system was not fixed in 2008. As they say, once fooled I agree, availability of energy is the basic limitation to growth. Now use of conventional energy is also causing limitations, both present and potential. LENR will solve many problems if we can get it into the mainstream, but this effort also has basic limitations. Nanotechnology will open new markets and, ironically, provide the solution to making CF work. We just need to understand how to apply it, which I'm trying to do. Ed - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Ed: The housing bubble didn't almost bring down the entire world economy. That is pure sensationalism. As with any bubble, when it pops those holding the bag usually suffer. In the case of 2008, the bag holders got the world governments to spread the suffering. That conclusion is in conflict with what was claimed at the time and provided justification for the Tarp funding. As for pessimism, this is the description someone applies when they do not believe what is being described. The description is acknowledged as being a true representation of reality if a person believes what is said. The question at this point is, who's view of reality is correct? In 2008 and in 1929, a pessimist would have taken their money out of the stock market. The optimist did not. Your choice. We all make choices that have consequences and these choices must be based on what is real. I'm trying to understand what is real. Are you? By the way, what ends the age of pessimism? Do people get their jobs and homes back? How soon does this happen? Ed Your comments sound like many of the doomsday predictors, peak oil etc so prevalent today. Your concern is understandable given this age of pessimism but instead of getting worked up maybe you should stick to LENR, if that technology verifies this age of pessimism will certainly end and all your concerns will evaporate. By the way, my take is that this age of pessimism is going to end soon even without LENR. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ed Storms wrote: Thanks Mark. Their view of reality differs significantly from what the people I read describe. I tend to believe my people because they predicted the 2008 collapse while Krugman did not. . . . Krugman did predict it, and warned against it several times. Such as here, in 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=0 He repeatedly described the banks' investments in real estate as junk. Jed, I read this article and I see no concern except the usual generalities. He observes that a bubble was being created in the housing market. He even observed, apparently approvingly, that the government would create another after this one bursts, although he did not anticipate the way this is presently being done. He made no mention that this bubble would almost bring down the entire world ecconomy. I will give him some credit, He was not as calm about the problem as was
Re: [Vo]:Like charges attract each other
True, although it does say that equally charged spheres would always repel. Still there are other bits of evidence, for example: http://www.rexresearch.com/ev/ev.htm Semi-stable clusters of electrons. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Nice article. Makes me wonder if the strong force is necessary to explain nuclear cohesion. Harry On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com wrote: http://sciencefeature.com/2012/05/20/attraction-between-like-charges.html My comments awaiting moderation. Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
Re: [Vo]:Like charges attract each other
This attraction between two like charge spheres is caused by the induction of a negative charge on the sphere with the lesser of the positive charges. The lesson to be applied to LENR from this example via charge separation is that the charge concentration is not important to charge screening. As long as there is charge separation regardless of the polarity, then coulomb barrier screening will occur. Cheers: axil On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com wrote: http://sciencefeature.com/2012/05/20/attraction-between-like-charges.html My comments awaiting moderation. Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
Ed: Not pessimistic at all. But, yes we can probably all be replaced. However, Human Beings will just find something else to do. The dilemma between Government directed and market directed is that the Government does a real bad job of running a business. I spent years on Capital Hill trying to encourage a change in the Space program to a more commercial model in which government provided incentives ( I even wrote a tax credit bill for the space transportation industry ) to encourage investment and let those investing direct the effort. That is the model that needs to be implemented, especially in the sciences. But alas, it is hard to change the thinking of those in charge. But government is good at collecting resources and redistributing them. - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment I agree Randy, we need a way to distribute the goodies being made increasingly without human help. The free enterprise system worked well in the past and many other ideas have failed. However, transition to a new system will not be easy. I suggest every one read the book Essentials of Economics. I was impressed about how the system actually works in contrast to the impression I got from less educated sources. The system is a well oiled machine with interconnected parts, all of which have to interact in certain ways. Of course, governments often throw sand in the works. Nevertheless, certain rules must be followed or the machine stops working. Before people suggest what is required to solve the growing problem of robots, I suggest you learn about how the machine actually works. By the way, this problem is not new. Machines have been taking over for almost 200 years with growing effect. The only difference is that the machines are now moving up the food chain and starting to affect a growing number of people especially at the higher skill and economic level. The natural expectation is that we all can be replaced - or is that too pessimistic? Ed On Jan 29, 2013, at 3:07 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Call it social security, call it a citizen dividend, call it whatever you want, if world productivity continues to increase (ie, more is available to distribute) so will the give away to those living and not producing or not producing much. Even if no one is working we will find a way to allocate the goods to those living on this planet, unless you want to give it to the robots who are doing the work. In essence funding is unnecessary, allocating the productions is all that is needed. Many of you are missing the point of the article on automation, the only thing that really matters is whether the pie increases and it is, dividing it up is never easy but will always be resolved by some method. However as to the method, what I am hearing is this antiquated notion that Human Beings are really productive today or ultimately needed for production. That may be true of some of us but far fewer then in the past and far more today then will be needed in the future. Most of us even now are just entertaining each other. It is made up work. Everyone needs to get used to it and we really do need to find a better way to allocate the productivity of the world. The problem in a service society is average ability is practically unwanted. We all want the services of those on the edge of the bell shaped curve (those with something exceptional to give), so those are the ones who get paid a lot. Everyone else is interchangeable and not worth spit and paid accordingly. So is that how you all want to allocate resources in the future? A tiny portion of the world population have 99% of what is produced and everyone else lives poorly (keeping in mind that we will be able to produce enough to allow everyone to live like the kings of the past if we want.) I don't think that is such a good idea, We need a better way to allocate production. We also need to expand beyond this planet to give us something to do before we go stir crazy. - Original Message - From: Chris Zell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment Business Insider recently reported that Krugman may be discreetly admitting that he has made a serious oversight with regard to the viability of Social Security. Automation is eliminating jobs at such a rate that the payroll tax funding source may be in peril. -- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:30 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another
Re: [Vo]:Like charges attract each other
Correction This attraction between two like charge spheres is caused by the induction of a negative charge on the sphere with the lesser of the positive charges. The lesson to be applied to LENR from this example via charge separation is that the *charge polarity* is not important to charge screening. As long as there is charge separation regardless of the polarity, then coulomb barrier screening will occur. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: This attraction between two like charge spheres is caused by the induction of a negative charge on the sphere with the lesser of the positive charges. The lesson to be applied to LENR from this example via charge separation is that the charge concentration is not important to charge screening. As long as there is charge separation regardless of the polarity, then coulomb barrier screening will occur. Cheers: axil On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com wrote: http://sciencefeature.com/2012/05/20/attraction-between-like-charges.html My comments awaiting moderation. Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: There seems to be a prevaling sense of entitlement in this generation. When your generation entered the workforce it was generally realistic for them to expect their income would eventually exceed their parents income. For today's generation that expectation is generally unrealistic. Instead they want more say over their workplace. Harry
RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
From Ed: Thanks Jim for making my comment more vivid. The situation is growing worse and your personal experience is one of many tragic consequences. The driving force behind hiring is the cost of labor. People from other countries are cheaper, the young are cheaper, and the robots are cheaper. This cost is not just salary. The cost of healthcare, pension, and general overhead is high. As you made clear, the quality of the person is not what matters in many industries, only the cost. The standard of living in the US is adjusting downward and everybody is suffering. When the inflation being created by the Federal Reserve increases in ernest, our pain will increase again. personal rant Having worked in Info Tech for over 30 years I have to say that the amount of out sourcing I've experienced, professionally speaking, within the last 10 - 15 years has been dramatic. This outsourcing virus seems to have increased exponentially within the last 5 years. For most of my professional InfoTech career I've worked for state government institutions. I am currently responsible for maintaining an expensive software package that is owned by EMC. EMC is a huge conglomerate company that, among many eclectic activities, manages high volume scanning software. What we have purchased from them is a tiny portion of the company's entire revenues. As such, we're small fish as far as EMC is concerned. Whenever we encounter a problem (or bug) with their scanning software for which that we cannot resolve on our own we open up another on-line Service Request through the EMC web site. 98% of the time we will be hooked up with an individual whose name, as spelled in the English language, is a significant challenge for me to pronounce correctly. I certainly don't fault countries like India for having wisely educated a huge portion of their population base with highly employable technical degrees that presumably include accompanying skills. Just like everyone else on this planet they deserve to earn live a better life than their parents. However, what I find inexcusable, ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE, is that companies like EMC appear to have gutted a significant portion of their experienced English speaking technical staff and replaced them with a significantly cheaper and inexperienced labor force in the misguided assumption by doing so they will be able to service their customers with the same degree of expertise, and all on the cheap. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING You just try conducting an on-line WebX session with an individual concerning highly technical matters when their command of the English language (combined with heavy accent) results in me hopefully comprehending about 70 to 80 percent of what they say over the phone. For about two years now we have been trying to upgrade to a newer version of a high-volume scanning software package. We had been using reasonably STABLE versions of this software for well over 5 years. Unfortunately, these older versions are going out of service very soon. But now... and you heard that right... for TWO YEARS now we have been trying to upgrade to a newer version. This upgrade has been going on for so long that this new version we are currently trying to upgrade to, we have been told by EMC, will ITSELF go out of service this summer. So, we are trying to upgrade to this version so that we can then turn around and upgrade to the next version which should hopefully last several more years longer before EMC decides it's time to pull it out of service. (I'll spare you the details about the politics involved with this upgrade strategy. Needless to say, it wasn't my choice.) Earlier this week I documented the fact that the software version we are still trying to upgrade to exhibits show stopping serious functional flaws. Our users will be unable to use the software as-is. I emailed EMC concerning the specifics of what I uncovered. I sent them a very explicit eMail message that documented the problems we've encountered. I also CC'd as my boss with my findings. I included a very clear hint to EMC (as well as my boss) that I'm recommending we seriously consider shopping around for another high volume scanning software package. (I've heard that KOFAX's, Ascent Capture s/w, is a good competitor.) I finally got a tech person who's native language is English. Hopefully EMC will take this matter seriously. Hopefully we'll get some EXPERIENCED development staff working on fixing the bugs. Hopefully this will be accomplished before I am possibly forced to retire prematurely (because someone has to be blamed) because I can't make their #$%# software work for us in our building. In 30 plus years of working in the Info Tech environment, I have never encountered a piece of #$$ software as bad as this. It is SO NOT ready for primetime. I can understand why EMC recently announced a brand new version that they are now trying to peddle to their
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:10 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: However, what I find inexcusable, ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE, is that companies like EMC appear to have gutted a significant portion of their experienced English speaking technical staff and replaced them with a significantly cheaper and inexperienced labor force in the misguided assumption by doing so they will be able to service their customers with the same degree of expertise, and all on the cheap. I find the outsourcing discussion interesting on several levels. Part of my responsibilities at work include liaising with a team in Singapore. They have taken over some of the work that my team previously worked on, and my team are gradually transitioning to other responsibilities. The people in Singapore are a real pleasure to work with. One thing that is interesting about the outsourcing discussion is that, I believe, one cannot self-consistently advocate hard-core capitalist market ideology, on hand, and get upset about outsourcing, on the other. (I'm not suggesting you're in the group of hard-core free-market advocates, Steven.) If you believe in purely market-driven solutions, outsourcing seems like a natural fit. If you have qualms with outsourcing, you may need to burnish up your free-market credentials. I believe this goes for any contracts the US government would need to fill as well -- unless, perhaps, one is willing to grant themselves a dispensation to depart a little from the spirit of market-based solutions. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
I wrote: unless, perhaps, one is willing to grant themselves a dispensation to depart a little from the spirit of market-based solutions. I should add that Singapore, during its period of rapid development, did not hesitate to depart from free-market principles. There were trade barriers and protectionism and government subsidies and so on. I've been to Singapore, and its economic policy appears to have been wise in hindsight. China appears to be pursuing a similar policy, and I suspect it will reap similar rewards in the future. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: China appears to be pursuing a similar policy, and I suspect it will reap similar rewards in the future. I'm having fun trolling tonight, so I'll add one more fascinating thought -- the folks in China are hardworking and diligent, and despite the economic inequalities that are starting to appear and the various troubles that the government is currently facing, you can be assured that it will gradually work through any issues. And so it is progressing, year by year, its people working quietly and diligently, and before too long you will see that it will attain the level of development of Singapore. So at that point you will have a country the size of China, with roughly three times the population of the US, at the level of prosperity of Singapore. At such a time there will be sufficient tax revenue to build up and maintain a sizable fleet of aircraft carriers and project force across the Pacific rim. And unlike Singapore, China has a large army of young, restless soldiers eager to win glory for the motherland and willing to prove themselves in the field against any country they perceive, rightly or wrongly, to be overbearing. In this context a sound, practical, wholly un-ideological economic policy, which does not ask too many questions about whether something is socialist or capitalist, will make all the difference in bringing this vision about. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on employment
this is also the position of the writer on the next convergence. Real policy for emerging countries is not laisser-faire, but TEMPORARY protectionism, huge investment in education and infrastructure, support for NEW industry... and reinventing all, breaking the old model, every 10 years. also one key idea is to forget about perfect solutions. Korea nearly missed the occidentallevel of developement because they wanted to enjoy their low-cost economy of the time. hopefully the workers moaned so much that wages increased, and that with education, they could get at a higher level of economy. don't forget that Korea was at a level nor far from East China today. What I see in france, is on one side some broken protectionism, leading to support zombies economy, voters lobbies, economic rent lobbies, and thus to starve the real needed investments, over taxing the new industry and the innovators (as people, and as industry)... On another side the work market is so unreal that there is bad habits of throwing experienced worked (too expensive, hard to control, pretended as outdated)... Pressure of taxes and alike are so high that work have to be very very productive (ve are very productive, too much for most) so it eliminates unexperienced workers (young, not qualified much), and older workers (slowers, obsoleted)or believed so. The gap in working cost is so wide with germany, that companies have quite no benefit to reinvest in innovation, and we lose markets(we have nearly the worst margin in EU). One problem is that it is harder to break a working contract than divorce. I've tested mysef for a small job for repairing house, that breaking a contract because ther is no more anything to do, IS NOT ALLOWED (checked many times with the work law administration). This make the emplyers very selective about employee who have to be perfect and predictable. No possibility to say that you will see if the man is good, if he can be trained... the effect is we have problem of low employment for aged workers, and so for young workers, leading to retirement fund bankrupcy. Young worker start to have a stable job (instability of work in france is very painful, since our mindset is not adapted so. we stress. it is hard to find a rent, a loan). being old in an enterprise start at 45 in france... at 45 you are assumed to be unable to change. at 50 you have to be fired at first occasion(not many), and nobody will employ you anymore. at 55 nobody will expect anything for you, no pressure, no training, no employment, just hope to fire you when a window open. at 65-67 you can hope to have your retirement... in between... and in france it is hard to pay people below that standard, so aged experienced worker are not employed, rather that underpaid... my question is whether LENR and robotic will save us, or if it will simply help Asia to develop, Africa after, letting us locked in our demagogy, until we have to move to Asia, where there is work and opportunities... If things get bad for me, this is one opportunity (not China, which is too locked, but one of the next tiger : Indonesia. still open and where I have a family network). Maybe Africa will be more adapted for most French since we have history and family links there, yet Asian diaspora develop many links since a decade... 2013/1/30 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com I wrote: unless, perhaps, one is willing to grant themselves a dispensation to depart a little from the spirit of market-based solutions. I should add that Singapore, during its period of rapid development, did not hesitate to depart from free-market principles. There were trade barriers and protectionism and government subsidies and so on. I've been to Singapore, and its economic policy appears to have been wise in hindsight. China appears to be pursuing a similar policy, and I suspect it will reap similar rewards in the future. Eric
