Re: [Vo]:Sci Am Attacks Cold Fusion yet again

[Alain Sepeda]

quite classic to use LENR as a bashing tool.
see that article that claim EmDrive is 21th century cold fusion
http://johncostella.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/the-emdrive-the-cold-fusion-of-the-21st-century/
I would like, but I have few hope (unlike LENR which is experimental
science, EmDrive is theory based with weak nonreproduced evidences...)

by the way on the same subject, but much more enthusiast
http://www.me-sapiens.com/the-e-cat-and-the-emdrive-two-unicorns-that-might-change-the-world-tomorrow/

I track some data on emdrive
http://www.scoop.it/t/emdrive
in case something emerge... however, hum... more chance than a lottery
ticket.


2013/6/25 David Roberson 

>  I was just reading the July 2013 addition of Scientific American and was
> dismayed by a negative reference to cold fusion hidden within one of the
> articles.  The title of the article is "In Search of a Mind-Reading
> Machine" and at the very end of the 5th paragraph is a sentence that
> compares the performance of various recognition softwares to cold fusion.
>
> The comparison suggests that marketers temp people with recognition types
> of products that do not work, hence the comparison.  I guess that magazine
> has no respect for our field just as others have reported many times.  One
> day they will realize how ignorant they are when these products become
> commonplace.  Let's hope that the time of reckoning is near.
>
> Dave
>

Re: [Vo]:Passive High Temperature Convective Thermal Control

[James Bowery]

No the LFTR passive control to which I refer is the fact that when the
power load on the reactor lowers, the temperature rises in the liquid
fluoride thorium salt which, in turn, causes it to expand.  Since the salt
is at critical mass, any expansion takes it below criticality which
nonlinearly lowers power production and thereby lowers the temperature.
 The set point of the system is a particular temperature at which the power
draw and the power production are equal so it is robust against variable
load.


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

>  *rather the issue is the _control_ of that variance.*
>
> As I understand your intent, your interest is the passive control of the
> variance.
>
> It seems to me, that if there is a mechanism of parameter control in the
> operation of the reactor, control of that parameter can be either active or
> passive or both.
>
> In the LFTR, there is a sacrificial failsafe freeze plug concept that
> passively protects the reactor from meltdown.
>
> I think this is what you are after to avoid a catastrophic runaway of the
> E-cat. This passive failsafe can exist in parallel with a passive or active
> control of the reactor.
>
> If the hydrogen gas gets too hot a freeze plug could melt to expel the
> hydrogen gas into a dedicated dump tank in the same way as is done in the
> LFTR with the molten salt..
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> First of all, variable conductance is not to the point.  The issue is not
>> whether one can vary the conductance or anything else -- rather the issue
>> is the _control_ of that variance.
>>
>> Secondly, the technology you describe involves a solid phase.  My request
>> was for a cite of prior art for the technology you describe.  The
>> Thermacore technology does not fit your description.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> *http://www.thermacore.com/products/variable-conductance-heat-pipe.aspx*
>>> **
>>> *Heat pipes have this ability for Variable Conductance, here is what
>>> thermacore does.  *
>>> **
>>> *How Does a Variable Conductance Heat Pipe Work?*
>>>
>>> All heat pipes can be made variable conductance by introducing a small
>>> mass of Non conducting gas NCG(shown schematically below). Because NCG is
>>> swept to the end of the condenser by the condensing working fluid vapor, it
>>> blocks a portion of the condenser, effectively reducing its conductance. If
>>> the ambient temperature increases, decreasing the available temperature
>>> difference between the condenser and the ambient, the operating temperature
>>> of the heat pipe will increase. This causes the operating pressure (i.e,
>>> saturation pressure of the working fluid at the heat pipe operating
>>> temperature) to increase, compressing the NCG into a smaller volume. The
>>> result is that more of the condenser area is available to condensing
>>> working fluid. This limits the increase in the operating temperature of the
>>> heat pipe and the component mounted to it, much as in the case of a
>>> Constant Conductance Heat Pipe (CCHP). Ideally, the increased conductance
>>> of the condenser offsets the increase in the ambient temperature and the
>>> heat pipe operates at a constant temperature.
>>>
>>> The degree of control depends on the working fluid saturation curve, the
>>> desired operating temperature set point, the ranges of ambient temperature
>>> and heat load and the volume of gas relative to the volume of the vapor
>>> space in the condenser.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 8:43 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 If you have indeed come up with something that is as elegant as the
 passive power output from LFTR for the E-Cat HT, my apologies for
 misunderstanding your proposal and my congratulations.

 Can you cite any patent numbers that use this sort of passive
 temperature control using Li heat pipes?  Can you select the desired
 operating temperature at the reactor surface with it, as I believe the free
 convection approach can?


 On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> A passive thermostat that reduces the flow of lithium liquid in a heat
> pipe is what you were after.
>
> It uses  the same passive expansion mechanism that is used in the LFTR.
>
> What is the problem?
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:26 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>
>> You must not be much of an engineer if you are so willing to blow off
>> explicit mention of passive control, Axil.  Do you have any engineering
>> background in critical systems -- by which I mean systems that, if they
>> fail, they kill people?
>>
>> I do and they didn't.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>
>>> You sacrificed passive control without acknowledging that was the
>>> goal of my proposal.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Eric Walker]

I wrote:

Another important parameter would be the energy.  Perhaps if you multiplied
> the normal d+d cross sections by the curve above you would get a suitable
> function for σ(E,r).
>

I take that back.  The distance parameter (r) already implicitly takes
deuteron energy into account, since the deuterons require a lot of it to
approach the nucleus to the distance of the palladium k-shell.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Eric Walker]

I wrote:

It seems like the cross section would drop off with the square of the
> distance from the spectator nucleus.  Perhaps something like this:
>
> σ(r) = 1/(1 + A*r^2),
>
> where A is a constant that is empirically determined; e.g.,
>
> http://i.imgur.com/eWu4K1i.jpg
>

Another important parameter would be the energy.  Perhaps if you multiplied
the normal d+d cross sections by the curve above you would get a suitable
function for σ(E,r).  Also, I seem to be treating σ as a 0-1 number
probability, but I don't think that's how it generally is treated.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Passive High Temperature Convective Thermal Control

[Axil Axil]

 *rather the issue is the _control_ of that variance.*

As I understand your intent, your interest is the passive control of the
variance.

It seems to me, that if there is a mechanism of parameter control in the
operation of the reactor, control of that parameter can be either active or
passive or both.

In the LFTR, there is a sacrificial failsafe freeze plug concept that
passively protects the reactor from meltdown.

I think this is what you are after to avoid a catastrophic runaway of the
E-cat. This passive failsafe can exist in parallel with a passive or active
control of the reactor.

If the hydrogen gas gets too hot a freeze plug could melt to expel the
hydrogen gas into a dedicated dump tank in the same way as is done in the
LFTR with the molten salt..




On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM, James Bowery  wrote:

> First of all, variable conductance is not to the point.  The issue is not
> whether one can vary the conductance or anything else -- rather the issue
> is the _control_ of that variance.
>
> Secondly, the technology you describe involves a solid phase.  My request
> was for a cite of prior art for the technology you describe.  The
> Thermacore technology does not fit your description.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> *http://www.thermacore.com/products/variable-conductance-heat-pipe.aspx*
>> **
>> *Heat pipes have this ability for Variable Conductance, here is what
>> thermacore does.  *
>> **
>> *How Does a Variable Conductance Heat Pipe Work?*
>>
>> All heat pipes can be made variable conductance by introducing a small
>> mass of Non conducting gas NCG(shown schematically below). Because NCG is
>> swept to the end of the condenser by the condensing working fluid vapor, it
>> blocks a portion of the condenser, effectively reducing its conductance. If
>> the ambient temperature increases, decreasing the available temperature
>> difference between the condenser and the ambient, the operating temperature
>> of the heat pipe will increase. This causes the operating pressure (i.e,
>> saturation pressure of the working fluid at the heat pipe operating
>> temperature) to increase, compressing the NCG into a smaller volume. The
>> result is that more of the condenser area is available to condensing
>> working fluid. This limits the increase in the operating temperature of the
>> heat pipe and the component mounted to it, much as in the case of a
>> Constant Conductance Heat Pipe (CCHP). Ideally, the increased conductance
>> of the condenser offsets the increase in the ambient temperature and the
>> heat pipe operates at a constant temperature.
>>
>> The degree of control depends on the working fluid saturation curve, the
>> desired operating temperature set point, the ranges of ambient temperature
>> and heat load and the volume of gas relative to the volume of the vapor
>> space in the condenser.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 8:43 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>>> If you have indeed come up with something that is as elegant as the
>>> passive power output from LFTR for the E-Cat HT, my apologies for
>>> misunderstanding your proposal and my congratulations.
>>>
>>> Can you cite any patent numbers that use this sort of passive
>>> temperature control using Li heat pipes?  Can you select the desired
>>> operating temperature at the reactor surface with it, as I believe the free
>>> convection approach can?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 A passive thermostat that reduces the flow of lithium liquid in a heat
 pipe is what you were after.

 It uses  the same passive expansion mechanism that is used in the LFTR.

 What is the problem?




 On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:26 PM, James Bowery wrote:

> You must not be much of an engineer if you are so willing to blow off
> explicit mention of passive control, Axil.  Do you have any engineering
> background in critical systems -- by which I mean systems that, if they
> fail, they kill people?
>
> I do and they didn't.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>
>> You sacrificed passive control without acknowledging that was the
>> goal of my proposal.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Axil Axil wrote:
>>
>>> *A *lithium heat pipe provides enough thermal capacity and power
>>> transfer density than you could ever want or need. Gravity is not a 
>>> factor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The heat transfer can be controlled by a temperature regulation of
>>> the liquid lithium return flow. More flow results in more cooling 
>>> through
>>> heat transfer through phase change from liquid to vapor. This phase 
>>> change
>>> mechanism is 1000 more powerful than convection cooling. **
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:42 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 Systems

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 8:56 PM,  wrote:

How far away does another nucleus have to be before the influence has
> dwindled
> to the point that it can no longer share in the momentum of the nuclear
> reaction?
>
> According to Ron, a close nucleus can share, and according to you, one far
> away
> cannot. Where is the boundary line?
>

I see.  We seem to need of an equation. ;)

Here I am out of my depth, but I will improvise one, just for the fun of
it.  Since we're talking about the disposition of a quantum of energy,
we're talking about a cross section.  I'm going to assume that the quantum
cannot be split between a gamma photon and kinetic energy -- the branching
is an all or nothing thing.  You get one of the usual branches, or you get
the sharing of momentum.  It is the probability of the sharing that we are
concerned about.

It seems like the cross section would drop off with the square of the
distance from the spectator nucleus.  Perhaps something like this:

σ(r) = 1/(1 + A*r^2),

where A is a constant that is empirically determined; e.g.,

http://i.imgur.com/eWu4K1i.jpg

Since we're also assuming that the likelihood of the deuterons fusing is a
function of their proximity to the nucleus, because of the delay in the
rebounding time, perhaps the total cross section (purple line) would not be
all that different from the cross section for the kinetic energy branch
(blue line).

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[David Roberson]

I understand what you mean Robin.  It does seem strange that the force can 
originate in a field where the momentum must be shared.  In the cases I used 
for my thought experiments the source is so far removed that it is apparent 
that the action occurs long before a signal can reach the source particles.  We 
need to dig into this concept further to identify exactly how COM is achieved.

In both of the cases the electron undergoes acceleration due to its interaction 
with the fields.  This should result in the radiation of energy in the form of 
photons which also carry momentum.  It is not obvious that the levels of 
radiation are adequate to complete the task, but they might be.

If we extend the thought experiment by making the source have a larger 
magnitude at a longer distance resulting in the same field vector at the 
electron, then the momentum imparted upon the electron would be the same.   
This process can be extended indefinitely as the source of the field is moved 
further away and increased in magnitude with the same net effect upon the 
electron.  The implication is that momentum must be shared with photons 
released by the accelerated electron.

So, in the case being discussed, it seems that the friend nuclei would not 
actually be the thing sharing the interaction momentum and energy.  This would 
seem to be true unless photons, in this case gammas, become directed toward the 
nearby nucleus and absorbed.  Perhaps this is a consequence of a fusion 
reaction time frame that is extremely short.  This is an interesting subject.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: mixent 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 11:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?


In reply to  David Roberson's message of Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:09:01 -0400 (EDT):
Hi Dave,
[snip]

I agree with what you are saying, I'm just having a hard time making use of it
to explain (the lack of) momentum sharing.


>If you take an extreme example it makes the process clear.  Suppose there 
exists a large current loop located a mile away from an electron source.  The 
point where the electron exits the gun has a magnetic field that is measurable 
arising from this source and at right angles to the path it will take.  The 
instant the electron leaves the source it become deflected by the magnetic 
field 
that exists at that precise point in time.  It does not have to wait until its 
motion is detected at the loop to begin the curvature.
>
>In this case, the electron is subject to a right angle force immediately due 
>to 
the field being present and not after a few microseconds of delay.  Notice that 
there would be no deflection had there not been an existing magnetic field.
>
>An electric field from a large charge at a mile would behave in a similar 
manner.  In that case, the electron would immediately begin accelerating toward 
the positive charge source and actually gaining energy as well as momentum.  
The 
field itself must be the source of the force being experienced by the electron 
since the actual charge causing the field is not aware of the existence of the 
electron for the same delay due to light having a finite speed.
>
>I tend to think of these types of processes as being influenced by changes in 
local time due to distance between objects.  In this case the electron is 
responding to the source fields associated with an earlier time of their 
existence from the source frame point of view.  From the electron's point of 
view, it is responding to its real time environment.
>
>Dave
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mixent 
>To: vortex-l 
>Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 6:30 pm
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?
>
>
>In reply to  David Roberson's message of Sun, 23 Jun 2013 17:37:39 -0400 (EDT):
>Hi,
>
>The problem I have with this is that it would allow any energy liberating
>mechanism (even chemical reactions) to result in a particle simply "taking off"
>with the momentum later to be passed to some other particle somewhere else
>(potentially anywhere), after light has had a chance to reach it.
>
>We don't see this happen. 
>
>>Robin,
>>
>>
>>I do not see a problem with what Eric is suggesting.  Regardless of how many 
>charges and moving charges reside in the universe, only the net vector fields 
>due to all of them is present at the location of the D reactions.  The 
>superposition of all of the individual fields results in one final value that 
>interacts.  The various vectors of the total could arise far away from the D 
>site, but their levels would drop off very fast with distance so only the 
>nearest ones would generally dominate.
>>
>>
>>For example, the total magnetic field vector at a point determines how a 
moving 
>charged particle's path is curved at that point.  The potentially far off 
source 
>of that field does not have to get information about the movement of that 
>particle before the force is felt.  This type of thought fits into the concept 
>that local time is what counts for a re

Re: [Vo]:Passive High Temperature Convective Thermal Control

[James Bowery]

First of all, variable conductance is not to the point.  The issue is not
whether one can vary the conductance or anything else -- rather the issue
is the _control_ of that variance.

Secondly, the technology you describe involves a solid phase.  My request
was for a cite of prior art for the technology you describe.  The
Thermacore technology does not fit your description.


On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> *http://www.thermacore.com/products/variable-conductance-heat-pipe.aspx*
> **
> *Heat pipes have this ability for Variable Conductance, here is what
> thermacore does.  *
> **
> *How Does a Variable Conductance Heat Pipe Work?*
>
> All heat pipes can be made variable conductance by introducing a small
> mass of Non conducting gas NCG(shown schematically below). Because NCG is
> swept to the end of the condenser by the condensing working fluid vapor, it
> blocks a portion of the condenser, effectively reducing its conductance. If
> the ambient temperature increases, decreasing the available temperature
> difference between the condenser and the ambient, the operating temperature
> of the heat pipe will increase. This causes the operating pressure (i.e,
> saturation pressure of the working fluid at the heat pipe operating
> temperature) to increase, compressing the NCG into a smaller volume. The
> result is that more of the condenser area is available to condensing
> working fluid. This limits the increase in the operating temperature of the
> heat pipe and the component mounted to it, much as in the case of a
> Constant Conductance Heat Pipe (CCHP). Ideally, the increased conductance
> of the condenser offsets the increase in the ambient temperature and the
> heat pipe operates at a constant temperature.
>
> The degree of control depends on the working fluid saturation curve, the
> desired operating temperature set point, the ranges of ambient temperature
> and heat load and the volume of gas relative to the volume of the vapor
> space in the condenser.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 8:43 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> If you have indeed come up with something that is as elegant as the
>> passive power output from LFTR for the E-Cat HT, my apologies for
>> misunderstanding your proposal and my congratulations.
>>
>> Can you cite any patent numbers that use this sort of passive temperature
>> control using Li heat pipes?  Can you select the desired operating
>> temperature at the reactor surface with it, as I believe the free
>> convection approach can?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> A passive thermostat that reduces the flow of lithium liquid in a heat
>>> pipe is what you were after.
>>>
>>> It uses  the same passive expansion mechanism that is used in the LFTR.
>>>
>>> What is the problem?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:26 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 You must not be much of an engineer if you are so willing to blow off
 explicit mention of passive control, Axil.  Do you have any engineering
 background in critical systems -- by which I mean systems that, if they
 fail, they kill people?

 I do and they didn't.


 On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, James Bowery wrote:

> You sacrificed passive control without acknowledging that was the goal
> of my proposal.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> *A *lithium heat pipe provides enough thermal capacity and power
>> transfer density than you could ever want or need. Gravity is not a 
>> factor.
>>
>>
>>
>> The heat transfer can be controlled by a temperature regulation of
>> the liquid lithium return flow. More flow results in more cooling through
>> heat transfer through phase change from liquid to vapor. This phase 
>> change
>> mechanism is 1000 more powerful than convection cooling. **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:42 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>
>>> Systems like the LFTR have passive high temperature thermal control
>>> based on thermal expansion of a near-critical mass density.  As the
>>> temperature increases, thermal expansion produces a rapid drop in power
>>> production thereby stabilizing the reactor core.
>>>
>>> Systems like the E-Cat HT are solid state and, in any event, are not
>>> dependent on critical mass density, but another approach to utilization 
>>> of
>>> thermal expansion might work:
>>>
>>> Thermal Convection
>>>
>>> To make thermal convection work, passive (free) convective forces
>>> must be large enough to move enough thermal capacity past the power 
>>> source
>>> and must be in a regime where the rate of cooling exceeds the power
>>> production at the target temperature.
>>>
>>> The 3 variables one has to play with to reach the target temperature
>>> are material thermal properties, power

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[mixent]

In reply to  David Roberson's message of Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:09:01 -0400 (EDT):
Hi Dave,
[snip]

I agree with what you are saying, I'm just having a hard time making use of it
to explain (the lack of) momentum sharing.


>If you take an extreme example it makes the process clear.  Suppose there 
>exists a large current loop located a mile away from an electron source.  The 
>point where the electron exits the gun has a magnetic field that is measurable 
>arising from this source and at right angles to the path it will take.  The 
>instant the electron leaves the source it become deflected by the magnetic 
>field that exists at that precise point in time.  It does not have to wait 
>until its motion is detected at the loop to begin the curvature.
>
>In this case, the electron is subject to a right angle force immediately due 
>to the field being present and not after a few microseconds of delay.  Notice 
>that there would be no deflection had there not been an existing magnetic 
>field.
>
>An electric field from a large charge at a mile would behave in a similar 
>manner.  In that case, the electron would immediately begin accelerating 
>toward the positive charge source and actually gaining energy as well as 
>momentum.  The field itself must be the source of the force being experienced 
>by the electron since the actual charge causing the field is not aware of the 
>existence of the electron for the same delay due to light having a finite 
>speed.
>
>I tend to think of these types of processes as being influenced by changes in 
>local time due to distance between objects.  In this case the electron is 
>responding to the source fields associated with an earlier time of their 
>existence from the source frame point of view.  From the electron's point of 
>view, it is responding to its real time environment.
>
>Dave
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mixent 
>To: vortex-l 
>Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 6:30 pm
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?
>
>
>In reply to  David Roberson's message of Sun, 23 Jun 2013 17:37:39 -0400 (EDT):
>Hi,
>
>The problem I have with this is that it would allow any energy liberating
>mechanism (even chemical reactions) to result in a particle simply "taking off"
>with the momentum later to be passed to some other particle somewhere else
>(potentially anywhere), after light has had a chance to reach it.
>
>We don't see this happen. 
>
>>Robin,
>>
>>
>>I do not see a problem with what Eric is suggesting.  Regardless of how many 
>charges and moving charges reside in the universe, only the net vector fields 
>due to all of them is present at the location of the D reactions.  The 
>superposition of all of the individual fields results in one final value that 
>interacts.  The various vectors of the total could arise far away from the D 
>site, but their levels would drop off very fast with distance so only the 
>nearest ones would generally dominate.
>>
>>
>>For example, the total magnetic field vector at a point determines how a 
>>moving 
>charged particle's path is curved at that point.  The potentially far off 
>source 
>of that field does not have to get information about the movement of that 
>particle before the force is felt.  This type of thought fits into the concept 
>that local time is what counts for a reference frame.  Distance makes the 
>local 
>times different between the "friend" nucleus and the interacting D's.
>>
>>
>>If you follow up on the momentum and energy pulses detected by the "friends" 
>nearby, then they would not see any reaction forces until the time required 
>for 
>light speed fields to reach them.  After that period has elapsed, they would 
>be 
>subject to potentially large dynamic forces.
>>
>>
>>Dave
>[snip]
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>
> 
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:Sci Am Attacks Cold Fusion yet again

[David Roberson]

I was just reading the July 2013 addition of Scientific American and was 
dismayed by a negative reference to cold fusion hidden within one of the 
articles.  The title of the article is "In Search of a Mind-Reading Machine" 
and at the very end of the 5th paragraph is a sentence that compares the 
performance of various recognition softwares to cold fusion.

The comparison suggests that marketers temp people with recognition types of 
products that do not work, hence the comparison.  I guess that magazine has no 
respect for our field just as others have reported many times.  One day they 
will realize how ignorant they are when these products become commonplace.  
Let's hope that the time of reckoning is near.

Dave

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[mixent]

In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Sun, 23 Jun 2013 16:05:24 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 3:50 PM,  wrote:
>
>...so what is the boundary condition? I.e. when does it happen, and when
>> not?
>> How strong does the force have to be?
>>
>Maybe I'm misunderstanding a subtlety of your question.

How far away does another nucleus have to be before the influence has dwindled
to the point that it can no longer share in the momentum of the nuclear
reaction?

According to Ron, a close nucleus can share, and according to you, one far away
cannot. Where is the boundary line?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:Focardi and Rubbia photo 1986

[H Veeder]

This photo
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201418697338532&set=gm.678802838802290&type=1&theater

was posted in the facebook group Cold Fusion, LENR and Andrea
Rossi


BTW, a month or so ago Carlo Rubbia became a member of this group.
So far he hasn't posted anything, but presumably his membership means he
basically accepts Rossi's claims.

Harry

[Vo]:It would be cool to use a portable generator

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:


> So, let's assume we have a test protocol such that:
>>
>
>>
> 1. The tamper-proof measuring system is taken to the lab and plugged in
>> and may not be unplugged.
>>
>
> A modern watt meter IS a tamper-proof measuring system. As I mentioned,
> they are made with integrated circuits these days. You cannot open one up
> and change the way it works. . . .
>

Having said all that, it would be cool to use a gasoline powered generator.
I just checked, and  they sell 3-phase portable generators. I guess you
could rent one.

That would shut up some of the skeptics.

It would only be practical to run it for ~8 hours when people are there.
Most of the small ones will not run overnight or continuously for weeks.
You have to get a natural-gas fired one for that. (My sister is getting a
single-phase one for her house. It is surprisingly cheap.)

If it ran for only 8 hours on the generator, the skeptics would say there
is a hidden battery that operated for 8 hours and after that Rossi went
back to his magic electric power input.

If I were Rossi or Levi, I would not lift a finger to satisfy the demands
of skeptics. I would, however, use a heavy duty industrial-grade power
meter. The one they used may be in that category:

http://www.industrial-needs.com/technical-data/power-anlayser-PCE-830.htm

I wouldn't know. It looks a smaller than the big wattmeters I saw years
ago, used by power company people and Hydrodynamics, but maybe these things
have shrunk, along with other test equipment. It sure has a lot of bells
and whistles.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)

[Jed Rothwell]

H Veeder  wrote:


> Every knows about it, is not the same as every one has read it.
>

Everyone talked about it!

Piantelli rubs some people the wrong way.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)

[H Veeder]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> H Veeder  wrote:
>
>> This is Focardi's and Piantelli's  improved experiment from the fall
>> of 1996 (published in 1998) which seems to have largely been over looked by
>> the Pd-D community.
>>
> It is not overlooked. Everyone knows about it. But it could not be
> replicated, and some people question the calorimetry.
>
> Ni-H heat has not been widely replicated, but that is not for lack of
> trying.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Every knows about it, is not the same as every one has read it.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)

[Axil Axil]

The surface area of the powder is important, but it may be the magnetic
nature of the nickel that is a critical factor in LENR.

When the temperature of nickel exceeds its curie temperature, the global
magnetic property of the metal breaks down by heat induced formation of
nano-scopic areas of magnetic domains that become correlated. These
structures provide the electron vortex rotations required for the formation
of anapole magnetic moments.
Direct observation and dynamics of spontaneous skyrmion-like magnetic
domains in a ferromagnet

*
http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nnano.2013.69.html?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNano
*

The structure and dynamics of submicrometre magnetic domains are the main
factors determining the physical properties of magnetic
materials1,
2.
Here, we report the first observation of skyrmion-like magnetic nanodomains
in a ferromagnetic manganite, La0.5Ba0.5MnO3, using Lorentz transmission
electron microscopy (LTEM). The skyrmion-like magnetic domains appear as
clusters above the Curie temperature. We found that the repeated reversal
of magnetic chirality is caused by thermal fluctuation. The closely spaced
clusters exhibit dynamic coupling, and the repeated magnetization reversal
becomes fully synchronized with the same chirality. Quantitative analysis
of such dynamics was performed by LTEM to directly determine the barrier
energy for the magnetization reversal of skyrmion-like nanometre domains.
This study is expected to pave the way for further investigation of the
unresolved nature and dynamics of magnetic vortex-like nanodomains.**

* *

* *


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 5:51 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Thanks Harry for the refresher in history.  When I read this report it
> screams out that Rossi has something real and also why powdered nickel is
> such a good idea.  I wonder why the earlier pioneers did not try powder to
> increase the surface area of the device?  Rossi seems to have read the
> cards correctly.
>
> Dave
>  -Original Message-
> From: H Veeder 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 3:00 pm
> Subject: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al,
> 1998)
>
>   This is Focardi's and Piantelli's  improved experiment from the fall
> of 1996 (published in 1998) which seems to have largely been over looked by
> the Pd-D community. What usually gets mentioned is their earlier
> experiment from 1994 and CERN's subsequent replication which did not find
> excess heat. It is odd that the 1998 paper makes no mention of CERN
> experiment.
> Harry
>
>
> Large excess heat production in Ni-H systems
>
> S. FOCARDI, V. GABBANI, V. MONTALBANO, F. PIANTELLI
>
> and S. VERONESI
>
>
>
> http://newenergytimes.com/v2/library/1998/1998FocardiS-LargeExcessHeatProductionNiH.pdf
>

Re: [Vo]:A simple question, take 2

[John Berry]

BTW Further observing my own ability to feel, I arch my fingers back,
beyond merely straight.
This increases sensation.

What I wonder is if this is amplifying the sensation that is already there
from such a hand gesture.
It seems from my research that aetheric energy acts in a manner to amplify
an existing interaction.

As David mentioned in another email, it seems the earth moves through zones
where the aetheric environment increases and decreases the rates of various
preexisting rates such as radioactive decay.

So maybe part of the key to sensation is to already have a sensation there,
rather than trying to remove sensation.
Having said that, my left hand has differed to my right hand in how it
feels energy, so I don't want to oversimplify  the act of feeling something
that is perhaps out of tune with the physical world and hence most
scientific methods of measurement.

Although the electrostatic gradiometer comes to mind.

John

Re: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)

[David Roberson]

Thanks Harry for the refresher in history.  When I read this report it screams 
out that Rossi has something real and also why powdered nickel is such a good 
idea.  I wonder why the earlier pioneers did not try powder to increase the 
surface area of the device?  Rossi seems to have read the cards correctly.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: H Veeder 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 3:00 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)



This is Focardi's and Piantelli's  improved experiment from the fall of 1996 
(published in 1998) which seems to have largely been over looked by the Pd-D 
community. What usually gets mentioned is their earlier experiment from 1994 
and CERN's subsequent replication which did not find excess heat. It is odd 
that the 1998 paper makes no mention of CERN experiment.
Harry 
 
 
Large excess heat production in Ni-H systems

S. FOCARDI, V. GABBANI, V. MONTALBANO, F. PIANTELLI

and S. VERONESI

 
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/library/1998/1998FocardiS-LargeExcessHeatProductionNiH.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Scientism, what my readers have answered

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

> *Nuclear and fossil fuels, undercut wind energy through grid problems,
> intermittency, high energy invested again energy gain.*
>
Also birds. The coal industry claims that wind turbines kill birds. That is
ridiculous because turbines kill very few birds, whereas coal smoke not
only kills millions of birds, it kills roughly 20,000 people in the U.S.
alone, and many more in China.

Reflective glass on buildings kills many more birds than wind turbines do.

Nevertheless, the U.S. Congressman from Big Coal, (D, WV) proposed a law
banning the use of wind turbines because they kill birds.



> *LENR is being attacked in like manor, but in a more unfocused way
> because few attackers know how LENR really works.*
>

I do not think it is being attacked by the fossil fuel or nuclear power
companies yet. Only by the DoE and the plasma fusion researchers.

I am sure they will attack it as soon as they realize it is real.




> *The will be an attempt to connect LENR with the nuclear power attack
> venue, to make use of all the nuclear propaganda.*
>

No doubt this is true. I have already seen it begun. Actually, they have a
valid point. LENR does produce trace amounts of tritium sometimes. Probably
less than you find in a tritium emergency exit sign:

http://www.theexitstore.com/exit_sign_info/facts-about-tritium-signs.htm


> *Such debate is a reflection of the age old struggle for dominance that
> goes back to the horse and buggy vs. the automobile debate.*
>
There was no debate back then because the buggy manufacturers did not take
the automobile seriously until it was too late. Here are the words of the
keynote speaker at the annual meeting of the National Association of
Carriage Builders in 1908, the year that Ford introduced the Model T:

"Eighty-five percent of the horse-drawn vehicle industry of the country is
untouched by the automobile. In proof of the foregoing permit me to say
that in 1906-7, and coincident with an enormous demand for automobiles, the
demand for buggies reached the highest tide of its history. The man who
predicts the downfall of the automobile is a fool; the man who denies its
great necessity and general adoption for many uses is a bigger fool; and
the man who predicts the general annihilation of the horse and his vehicle
is the greatest fool of all."

The fossil fuel companies will not make this mistake.

*The way to respond to this certain adversarial situation going forward is
> to perfect the LENR energy wars arguments against the energy competition.*
>
Yes. The way to win is to enlist the public on our side, as I say in the
intro to my book. To do that we need good arguments. Mostly we need to
appeal to people's self interest. That is to say, we need to tell them that
cold fusion will save them $2,000 per capita per year, $8,000 for a family
of 4. If the public comes to believe that, cold fusion will be unstoppable.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:A simple question, take 2

[John Berry]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:21 AM, David L Babcock wrote:

> My hand can easily feel the radiant heat from my flat screen.  This is
> stronger where whiter (brighter?).  And so, yes I "felt something".  (Did
> not try other body places, did not notice other sensations.)
>

Well then you are very sensitive to light, but you are not feeling the
aetheric energy from the image as it is strongest where black, especially
the center.



>
> If I hypothesize that the radiant thermal signal is out-shouting the
> "real" signal


Perhaps, but only because you have essentially no sensation from the
aetheric energy.
While MOST people feel it, there is a percentage that either do not, or do
not 99 times out of 100.
And most feel it clearly enough to distinguish it from heat from the
monitor.

And occasionally I have found people who feel it for a moment, clearly.
Only to lose it.
It isn't at 100% yet, but it is above 90% generally. I do suspect that
people in certain jobs, or of certain personality types are far less likely
to feel it.


> , then would like to see your symbol surrounded by a considerable area of
> background. The background should be a fine pattern or gray tone that emits
> -as carefully as you can set it up- the same radiant heat as the symbol,
> per sq in.
>
> I suggest a fine dot pattern, as this avoids considering the gamma
> matching problem.  Just generate the background pattern to the same black
> pixel/white pixel ratio, as the symbol.  A blank ring may want to be put
> around the symbol to balance that extra dark edge, but this would perhaps
> be trying too hard.


Indeed, it would.

While what people feel differs, and even how people feel differs (some just
look at an image and know something is going on, this is an ability I
generally don't have), but the sensation at the exact center of that image
is quite distinct, quite structured.

So one brave person gave it a try, Thanks David.

John

Re: [Vo]:Scientism, what my readers have answered

[Axil Axil]

*There is a long standing century’s long war staring with whale oil vs.
kerosene going on between various segments of the energy market. Each
segment has a list of propaganda weapons that it uses to undercut its
competition. In the end, it all boils down to market share and money. *

* *

*The fossil fuel segment undercuts nuclear energy based on radiation, the
dangers of nuclear waste, cost, melt down danger, the uranium depleted
future, and so on.*

* *

*Nuclear undercuts fossil fuels with global warming, water pollution as a
product of fracking, radiation caused by coal burning, oil spills fouling
the oceans.*

* *

*Nuclear and fossil fuels, undercut wind energy through grid problems,
intermittency, high energy invested again energy gain.*

* *

*Solar is undercut by cloudy days, high costs, high land use and long dark
nights. *

* *

*LENR is being attacked in like manor, but in a more unfocused way because
few attackers know how LENR really works. *

* *

*The will be an attempt to connect LENR with the nuclear power attack
venue, to make use of all the nuclear propaganda.*

* *

*There will eventually be a reach for the nuclear weapons connection as
related to LENR.*

* *

*The LENR vs. LENR+ debate is a microcosm of the energy wars reflected
inside the LENR theorist community.*

* *

*Such debate is a reflection of the age old struggle for dominance that
goes back to the horse and buggy vs. the automobile debate.*

* *

*The way to respond to this certain adversarial situation going forward is
to perfect the LENR energy wars arguments against the energy competition. *

* *

*These energy wars are essentially a political battle and as such the back
and forth dialog must be prepared for and carried out with speed, gleeful
enthusiasm, and untiring perseverance.*

* *

* *


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> and what have I understood from the answers. It is about LENR and
> scientism, the essence is that scientism can ignore me because I am
> still isolated and harmless to the dominant ideas. I am patient and
> stubborn but  at my age patience has to be interpreted in special ways.
>
> Independently from what I can achieve this dispute is a long term problem.
> Please read this essay just from curiosity- to see how broad the spectrum
> of opinions can be.
> I apologize to the nice and generous readers who have helped me indee I
> have not mentioned names as a general rule- trying to protect them
> from being connected to (anti)scientific blasphemies even if I take full
> responsibility
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)

[Jed Rothwell]

H Veeder  wrote:

> This is Focardi's and Piantelli's  improved experiment from the fall
> of 1996 (published in 1998) which seems to have largely been over looked by
> the Pd-D community.
>
It is not overlooked. Everyone knows about it. But it could not be
replicated, and some people question the calorimetry.

Ni-H heat has not been widely replicated, but that is not for lack of
trying.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?

[Alain Sepeda]

you should really read Antifragile. you describe the inventor, the
entrepreneur, the tinkerers, the practitioners that Taleb judge as the real
source of invention and progress...
and the fact that 99% of they project fails, sometime with their inventor,
make the process extremely efficient...

I've even read that for great scientists, not "kind men" but genius
bastards, like Newton or Edison.


2013/6/24 Jed Rothwell 

> Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>
>> It makes no sense that an extremely dedicated work-a-holic inventor who
>> has
>> invested a decade of intensive labor into optimizing an invention (and BTW
>> it is an invention that was basically proved as being real in 1992 by
>> Thermacore) . . .
>
>
> I agree! About Rossi and Thermacore. I too recently pointed out that he is
> a work-a-holic. I know this for a fact. I have spoken with people who spent
> time with him in the lab. They all say he is a work-a-holic and a
> brilliant, hands-on experimentalist.
>
> Rossi is a man of mystery. He keeps his business private. He does not
> reveal much about his machines. He often says things that I assume are
> misdirection. But we know a few things about him and his personal life for
> sure. His work habits and his dedication do not fit the profile of a
> scammer.
>
> The main evidence that people such as Mary Yugo cite are Rossi's many
> failures and technical catastrophes, with things like biofuel and
> thermoelectric devices. I do not regard these as evidence that he is
> dishonest. I see them as evidence that he is a real inventor. Inventors
> always fail, often drastically. Edison wasted huge sums of money on
> magnetic ore separation. Real entrepreneurs such as Steve Jobs also fail,
> in his case with the Apple III, the Lisa, and the NeXT corporation.
>
> - Jed
>
>

[Vo]:Large Excess heat production in Ni-H systems (Focardi et al, 1998)

[H Veeder]

This is Focardi's and Piantelli's  improved experiment from the fall
of 1996 (published in 1998) which seems to have largely been over looked by
the Pd-D community. What usually gets mentioned is their earlier
experiment from 1994 and CERN's subsequent replication which did not find
excess heat. It is odd that the 1998 paper makes no mention of CERN
experiment.

Harry





Large excess heat production in Ni-H systems

S. FOCARDI, V. GABBANI, V. MONTALBANO, F. PIANTELLI

and S. VERONESI


http://newenergytimes.com/v2/library/1998/1998FocardiS-LargeExcessHeatProductionNiH.pdf

[Vo]:Scientism, what my readers have answered

[Peter Gluck]

and what have I understood from the answers. It is about LENR and
scientism, the essence is that scientism can ignore me because I am
still isolated and harmless to the dominant ideas. I am patient and
stubborn but  at my age patience has to be interpreted in special ways.

Independently from what I can achieve this dispute is a long term problem.
Please read this essay just from curiosity- to see how broad the spectrum
of opinions can be.
I apologize to the nice and generous readers who have helped me indee I
have not mentioned names as a general rule- trying to protect them
from being connected to (anti)scientific blasphemies even if I take full
responsibility

Peter

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:A simple question, take 2

[David L Babcock]

My hand can easily feel the radiant heat from my flat screen.  This is 
stronger where whiter (brighter?).  And so, yes I "felt something".  
(Did not try other body places, did not notice other sensations.)


If I hypothesize that the radiant thermal signal is out-shouting the 
"real" signal, then would like to see your symbol surrounded by a 
considerable area of background. The background should be a fine pattern 
or gray tone that emits -as carefully as you can set it up- the same 
radiant heat as the symbol, per sq in.


I suggest a fine dot pattern, as this avoids considering the gamma 
matching problem.  Just generate the background pattern to the same 
black pixel/white pixel ratio, as the symbol.  A blank ring may want to 
be put around the symbol to balance that extra dark edge, but this would 
perhaps be trying too hard.


Symbol width should be no more than (say) 1/5 the image width.

Yours,
Ol' Bab


On 6/24/2013 7:08 AM, John Berry wrote:
Ok, Maybe no one is ready, since I have had zero testers give results 
positive or negative.


But I want to give this a fresh chance due to apparent technical 
difficulties the first time, excuse my persistence.


http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7185/xens.png

http://aethericsciences.net78.net/user_images/even%20better.png

Open the image, and feel with your palm (hand flat with light tension 
on your skin) moving hand toward and away from the center of the 
image, feel for any sensation such as heat/warmth, cool or pressure, 
tingle or buzz etc...

Also you might feel energy elsewhere, eyes, or on face etc...

And you might feel nothing since it's just an image and logically an 
image can't have a physical effect, because, well they just don't.


Of course if you do feel something then you can accept that as equally 
logical since everyone knows that protons are particles (or packets of 
electromagnetic disturbance) and the space is a sea of quantum waves 
and virtual particles etc..


But give your answer, positive, negative, or unclear/inconclusive (too 
little to call, but not quite nothing).


Give your answer in private if you like.

Or just refuse to look thorough my telescope because of what the 
church of science would say if they found out.

But if so are you afraid of a negative result, or a positive one?

John

Re: [Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:


> It makes no sense that an extremely dedicated work-a-holic inventor who has
> invested a decade of intensive labor into optimizing an invention (and BTW
> it is an invention that was basically proved as being real in 1992 by
> Thermacore) . . .


I agree! About Rossi and Thermacore. I too recently pointed out that he is
a work-a-holic. I know this for a fact. I have spoken with people who spent
time with him in the lab. They all say he is a work-a-holic and a
brilliant, hands-on experimentalist.

Rossi is a man of mystery. He keeps his business private. He does not
reveal much about his machines. He often says things that I assume are
misdirection. But we know a few things about him and his personal life for
sure. His work habits and his dedication do not fit the profile of a
scammer.

The main evidence that people such as Mary Yugo cite are Rossi's many
failures and technical catastrophes, with things like biofuel and
thermoelectric devices. I do not regard these as evidence that he is
dishonest. I see them as evidence that he is a real inventor. Inventors
always fail, often drastically. Edison wasted huge sums of money on
magnetic ore separation. Real entrepreneurs such as Steve Jobs also fail,
in his case with the Apple III, the Lisa, and the NeXT corporation.

- Jed

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Axil Axil]

The blue light might not be coming from electrons orbiting a nucleus, but
rather electrons caught in a soliton vortex.



It seems to me that the determination of what is really causing the
circular motion of the electrons is difficult to come up with.



I wonder if such electrons orbiting in a vortex follow the same quantum
rules as those that orbit an atom.

* *


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I wonder if the frequency of the light in the hot spot is about the same
> as is seen in the deep blue light coming from *sonoluminescence.*
>
> I wonder if Miles has not guessed correctly at the proper source and cause
> of the blue light.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
> francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:
>
>>  Axil, I think the frequency of the light is a property of the
>> fractional state but the plasmon resonance is causing larger and larger
>> populations of fractional molecules to disassociate and recombine in the
>> cavity, the end effect on measurement devices that average the spectrum
>> from the bulk gas is to broaden the spectrum.
>>
>> Fran
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 12:52 PM
>> *To:* vortex-l
>> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>  *I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum
>> reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to
>> resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer.*
>>
>>  
>>
>> The frequency of light in the hot spot is changed from infrared to the
>> color blue in the range  correspond to a blue spectral range with *hw* *≈
>> ** *3*.*13 eV.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Roarty, Francis X <
>> francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:
>>
>> I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum
>> reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to
>> resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer. I also
>> wonder about the applicability of spectrum measurements to the active
>> environment. I am pretty sure we see only an average of the spectrum from
>> the lattice and both sides of the active geometry - my posit is that
>> fractional Rydberg h  result in lower frequency while Rydberg h results in
>> higher and that both can occur but the active geometry [cavity] favors
>> fractional formations so I would expect to see the hydrogen spectrum
>> broadened but more so on the low side.
>>
>>  I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where
>> f/h2  disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and
>> that photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible
>> for the spectrum spread claimed by Mills. I had a passing notion that the
>> 20% metronome effect might even extend to favoring a specific pair of
>> fractional states to oscillate between- the spectrum anomaly is  caused by
>> the slaved disassociations of  fractional states and there may exist
>> favored pairs. Does anyone know how consistent the Mill's claimed spectrum
>> is?
>> Fran
>>
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Jones,
I was speaking of IR affecting the Ni surface through the SS or Silicon 
Carbide tube - where the hi Q of the geometry could be slaved to PWM driving 
the heaters - counting on a weak  Faraday reactor cage the plasmons would 
slowly synchronize like the metronome and then subsequently the fractional 
hydrogen states would also start to resonate as motion leads to change in 
geometry/casimir force..

I don't think redundant ground states are contained by the reactor - 
they are contained by the geometry and will cease to be redundant once the 
vacuum wavelength suppression [geometry] ceases to exist. I think this is why 
Mills can't show a hydrino - they only exist in situ and turn back into normal 
ground states as they exit the cavity.
Fran

_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:23 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?


-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X

> I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2  
> disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that 
> photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for the 
> spectrum spread ...

This observation is interesting in the context of the HotCat and 
Casimir/plasmon effects on SiC, if I understand what you are suggesting with 
the molecular form (as opposed to other forms). We have mentioned several 
papers on plasmonics and SiC in the past:
http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1329919

... but these studies usually involve nanoparticles of SiC, and the tube in the 
HotCat was simply said to be a generic carborundum tube. The leap of faith, 
therefore is that a typical SiC tube would have naturally occurring nanosized 
surface features, as the location where the Casimir-plasmonics effect could 
take place (when it is heated to an IR glow). In this version of events leading 
to gain, hydrogen embrittlement is not required.

The (f/H)2 molecule would be the neutral fractional hydrogen molecule, as 
opposed to the atom or hydride. This species, even at the first redundancy 
level would have a reduced diameter but at the second level the species is 
difficult to contain by any non-magnetic material, since the volume is reduced 
by a factor of 27:1 over the normal hydrogen molecule. The grade of stainless 
being used in the HotCat is non-magnetic.

Thus - if one wanted to invent a way to slowly release an active dense isomer 
of hydrogen as the fuel, then there is no better way than to seal up a metal 
hydride in a non-magnetic stainless steel tube, along with a Mills' catalyst 
and heat it until a population of f/H forms and is reduced to the (f/H)2 
molecule. This could take many days to "prime" and once the (f/H)2 molecule 
forms it should be used immediately, or it will escape.

If you are lucky, or inspired, in the design choices - and your (f/H)2 molecule 
forms slowly but preferentially at a regular rate, then it would disperse 
through the walls of the tube and interact with plasmon on the interface. If 
the interfacial layer between the stainless tube and the carborundum is 
plasmonic, with the very high electric fields, then the fields will capture and 
hold the (f/H)2 molecule in place for further reactivity.

That reactivity could include the Storms hypothesis of fusion to deuterium, 
aided by the extreme electric field of the plasmon/polaritons; or it could 
include further levels of Mills' electron redundancy; or it could include RPF - 
reversible proton fusion; or several other forms of gain, OR any combination of 
these operating together.

Jones

[Vo]:unsubscribe

[Eydhah Almatrafi]

Unsubscribe

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Axil Axil]

I wonder if the frequency of the light in the hot spot is about the same as
is seen in the deep blue light coming from *sonoluminescence.*

I wonder if Miles has not guessed correctly at the proper source and cause
of the blue light.


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

>  Axil, I think the frequency of the light is a property of the fractional
> state but the plasmon resonance is causing larger and larger populations of
> fractional molecules to disassociate and recombine in the cavity, the end
> effect on measurement devices that average the spectrum from the bulk gas
> is to broaden the spectrum.
>
> Fran
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 12:52 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?
>
> ** **
>
>  *I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum
> reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to
> resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer.*
>
>  
>
> The frequency of light in the hot spot is changed from infrared to the
> color blue in the range  correspond to a blue spectral range with *hw* *≈*
> * *3*.*13 eV.
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Roarty, Francis X <
> francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:
>
> I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum
> reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to
> resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer. I also
> wonder about the applicability of spectrum measurements to the active
> environment. I am pretty sure we see only an average of the spectrum from
> the lattice and both sides of the active geometry - my posit is that
> fractional Rydberg h  result in lower frequency while Rydberg h results in
> higher and that both can occur but the active geometry [cavity] favors
> fractional formations so I would expect to see the hydrogen spectrum
> broadened but more so on the low side.
>
>  I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2
>  disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that
> photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for
> the spectrum spread claimed by Mills. I had a passing notion that the 20%
> metronome effect might even extend to favoring a specific pair of
> fractional states to oscillate between- the spectrum anomaly is  caused by
> the slaved disassociations of  fractional states and there may exist
> favored pairs. Does anyone know how consistent the Mill's claimed spectrum
> is?
> Fran
>
> 
>
> ** **
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[David Roberson]

I have a strong suspicion that the plasmon resonances can be tuned by the 
surface features.  There also may be interactions with the underlying atoms of 
the surface as well since atom resonances possess very high frequency stability 
and "Q".  We may discover that real magic occurs when the two types of 
resonances couple strongly due to incidental surface features such as holes and 
projections.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 1:07 pm
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?



Axil, I think the frequency of the light is a property of the fractional state 
but the plasmon resonance is causing larger and larger populations of 
fractional molecules to disassociate and recombine in the cavity, the end 
effect on measurement devices that average the spectrum from the bulk gas is to 
broaden the spectrum.
Fran
 
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 12:52 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?
 

 I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum reported by 
Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to resonate at a 
higher harmonic this would bring it much closer.

 

The frequency of light in the hot spot is changed from infrared to the color 
blue in the range  correspond to a blue spectral range withhw ≈3.13 eV.


 

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Roarty, Francis X  
wrote:
I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum 
reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to 
resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer. I also wonder 
about the applicability of spectrum measurements to the active environment. I 
am pretty sure we see only an average of the spectrum from the lattice and both 
sides of the active geometry - my posit is that fractional Rydberg h  result in 
lower frequency while Rydberg h results in higher and that both can occur but 
the active geometry [cavity] favors fractional formations so I would expect to 
see the hydrogen spectrum broadened but more so on the low side.

 I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2  
disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that 
photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for the 
spectrum spread claimed by Mills. I had a passing notion that the 20% metronome 
effect might even extend to favoring a specific pair of fractional states to 
oscillate between- the spectrum anomaly is  caused by the slaved 
disassociations of  fractional states and there may exist favored pairs. Does 
anyone know how consistent the Mill's claimed spectrum is?
Fran



 

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil, I think the frequency of the light is a property of the fractional state 
but the plasmon resonance is causing larger and larger populations of 
fractional molecules to disassociate and recombine in the cavity, the end 
effect on measurement devices that average the spectrum from the bulk gas is to 
broaden the spectrum.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 12:52 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

 I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum reported by 
Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to resonate at a 
higher harmonic this would bring it much closer.

The frequency of light in the hot spot is changed from infrared to the color 
blue in the range  correspond to a blue spectral range with hw ≈ 3.13 eV.

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Roarty, Francis X 
mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com>> wrote:
I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum 
reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to 
resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer. I also wonder 
about the applicability of spectrum measurements to the active environment. I 
am pretty sure we see only an average of the spectrum from the lattice and both 
sides of the active geometry - my posit is that fractional Rydberg h  result in 
lower frequency while Rydberg h results in higher and that both can occur but 
the active geometry [cavity] favors fractional formations so I would expect to 
see the hydrogen spectrum broadened but more so on the low side.

 I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2  
disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that 
photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for the 
spectrum spread claimed by Mills. I had a passing notion that the 20% metronome 
effect might even extend to favoring a specific pair of fractional states to 
oscillate between- the spectrum anomaly is  caused by the slaved 
disassociations of  fractional states and there may exist favored pairs. Does 
anyone know how consistent the Mill's claimed spectrum is?
Fran

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Axil Axil]

 *I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum
reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to
resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer.*

The frequency of light in the hot spot is changed from infrared to the
color blue in the range  correspond to a blue spectral range with *hw* *≈ *3
*.*13 eV.


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

> I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum
> reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to
> resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer. I also
> wonder about the applicability of spectrum measurements to the active
> environment. I am pretty sure we see only an average of the spectrum from
> the lattice and both sides of the active geometry - my posit is that
> fractional Rydberg h  result in lower frequency while Rydberg h results in
> higher and that both can occur but the active geometry [cavity] favors
> fractional formations so I would expect to see the hydrogen spectrum
> broadened but more so on the low side.
>
>  I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2
>  disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that
> photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for
> the spectrum spread claimed by Mills. I had a passing notion that the 20%
> metronome effect might even extend to favoring a specific pair of
> fractional states to oscillate between- the spectrum anomaly is  caused by
> the slaved disassociations of  fractional states and there may exist
> favored pairs. Does anyone know how consistent the Mill's claimed spectrum
> is?
> Fran
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Jones' nails it with this:
"Look at the balance of this equation to Humanity ... the risk/reward ratio
is so skewed that the efforts of skeptics is just wrong if they delay
progress by a day. They do not have to actually help - simply not impeding
progress is sufficient.
Silly. Brain-dead. Wrong. You guys are all smart enough to know better."

Couldn't agree more...

They are all smart enough to know better... the fact that they go to such
great lengths, and spend a tremendous amount of their spare time going to
all the different LENR-related and physics sites to debunk and spread
misinformation can only be due to some severe emotional baggage they're
still carrying around with them.  

-Mark

_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:08 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?


This whole digression and flight of fancy into framing Rossi as part
magician and part scammer is not just wrong - it is a sick embarrassment
that could cost Society dearly.

Sure - it might be possible for Rossi to disguise a hidden power source, or
any number of cheesy tricks, or to bring in a real magician as a consultant
- but what is the end-game? Rossi only benefits with a successful product.
And there is a huge downside risk for fraud.

It makes no sense that an extremely dedicated work-a-holic inventor who has
invested a decade of intensive labor into optimizing an invention (and BTW
it is an invention that was basically proved as being real in 1992 by
Thermacore) would stoop to such a level... not to mention invest his
personal fortune.

When Rossi, or someone else, does bring LENR to market - people like
Millstone, Hody and Schroeder are going to regret their misguided efforts -
which have certainly served to hold back others at the University level from
investigating the effects. And for what real purpose? To protect unnamed
investors from being fleeced? Would not their efforts be better focused by
picketing Casinos in Las Vegas or Goldman/Morgan/etc on Wall Street?

If the Rossi effect is real - every delay of a year effectively transfers
half a trillion dollars to OPEC then years hence. If the Rossi effect is a
scam, a few investors may lose a few million and Rossi spends his retirement
years in prison. That is the basic equation.

Look at the balance of this equation to Humanity ... the risk/reward ratio
is so skewed that the efforts of skeptics is just wrong if they delay
progress by a day. They do not have to actually help - simply not impeding
progress is sufficient.

Silly. Brain-dead. Wrong. You guys are all smart enough to know better.





<>

Re: [Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?

[Ron Wormus]

Pretty cool you can kind of see the harness under his jacket (squared 
shoulder).  I expect the hand on the bus is metal brace fabricated to 
look like a real hand and connects into a harness system under his hoodie


--On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:01 PM +0200 Charles Francis 
 wrote:



http://www.itn.co.uk/And%20Finally/78885/dynamo-levitates-on-the-side-of
-a-d ouble-decker-bus

RE: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X 

> I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2
disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that
photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for the
spectrum spread ...

This observation is interesting in the context of the HotCat and
Casimir/plasmon effects on SiC, if I understand what you are suggesting with
the molecular form (as opposed to other forms). We have mentioned several
papers on plasmonics and SiC in the past:
http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1329919

... but these studies usually involve nanoparticles of SiC, and the tube in
the HotCat was simply said to be a generic carborundum tube. The leap of
faith, therefore is that a typical SiC tube would have naturally occurring
nanosized surface features, as the location where the Casimir-plasmonics
effect could take place (when it is heated to an IR glow). In this version
of events leading to gain, hydrogen embrittlement is not required.

The (f/H)2 molecule would be the neutral fractional hydrogen molecule, as
opposed to the atom or hydride. This species, even at the first redundancy
level would have a reduced diameter but at the second level the species is
difficult to contain by any non-magnetic material, since the volume is
reduced by a factor of 27:1 over the normal hydrogen molecule. The grade of
stainless being used in the HotCat is non-magnetic.

Thus - if one wanted to invent a way to slowly release an active dense
isomer of hydrogen as the fuel, then there is no better way than to seal up
a metal hydride in a non-magnetic stainless steel tube, along with a Mills'
catalyst and heat it until a population of f/H forms and is reduced to the
(f/H)2 molecule. This could take many days to "prime" and once the (f/H)2
molecule forms it should be used immediately, or it will escape. 

If you are lucky, or inspired, in the design choices - and your (f/H)2
molecule forms slowly but preferentially at a regular rate, then it would
disperse through the walls of the tube and interact with plasmon on the
interface. If the interfacial layer between the stainless tube and the
carborundum is plasmonic, with the very high electric fields, then the
fields will capture and hold the (f/H)2 molecule in place for further
reactivity.

That reactivity could include the Storms hypothesis of fusion to deuterium,
aided by the extreme electric field of the plasmon/polaritons; or it could
include further levels of Mills' electron redundancy; or it could include
RPF - reversible proton fusion; or several other forms of gain, OR any
combination of these operating together.

Jones

<>

RE: [Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?

[Jones Beene]

This whole digression and flight of fancy into framing Rossi as part
magician and part scammer is not just wrong - it is a sick embarrassment
that could cost Society dearly.

Sure - it might be possible for Rossi to disguise a hidden power source, or
any number of cheesy tricks, or to bring in a real magician as a consultant
- but what is the end-game? Rossi only benefits with a successful product.
And there is a huge downside risk for fraud.

It makes no sense that an extremely dedicated work-a-holic inventor who has
invested a decade of intensive labor into optimizing an invention (and BTW
it is an invention that was basically proved as being real in 1992 by
Thermacore) would stoop to such a level... not to mention invest his
personal fortune.

When Rossi, or someone else, does bring LENR to market - people like
Millstone, Hody and Schroeder are going to regret their misguided efforts -
which have certainly served to hold back others at the University level from
investigating the effects. And for what real purpose? To protect unnamed
investors from being fleeced? Would not their efforts be better focused by
picketing Casinos in Las Vegas or Goldman/Morgan/etc on Wall Street?

If the Rossi effect is real - every delay of a year effectively transfers
half a trillion dollars to OPEC then years hence. If the Rossi effect is a
scam, a few investors may lose a few million and Rossi spends his retirement
years in prison. That is the basic equation.

Look at the balance of this equation to Humanity ... the risk/reward ratio
is so skewed that the efforts of skeptics is just wrong if they delay
progress by a day. They do not have to actually help - simply not impeding
progress is sufficient.

Silly. Brain-dead. Wrong. You guys are all smart enough to know better.





<>

Re: [Vo]:A simple question, take 2

[John Berry]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:14 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  Hi John,
>
> ** **
>
> I think the problem is the “audience” you have chosen is one that is
> presently looking hard for substantive physical effects, especially in
> light of the criticism of LENR (where intuition has met with strong
> challenges) - yet what these images offer is more suggestive than
> substantive. You are apparently very sensitive to them, and others may
> think there “could be” something there, but would rather remain
> noncommittal.
>

Yes, obviously my aim is to get something that is not subjective and is
more substantial.
I still believe that if a large enough % of people feel something
convincing, then that has value to show that this is worthy more study.

> 
>
> ** **
>
> If there is some kind of inherent and measurable energy in an image, or
> type of image - and/or some connection to an aether field - then as the
> “inventor” of the effect - you probably would be wise to find out why it
> has the physical effect by implementing any kind of quantification - and
> then see if there is a statistical way to validate it.
>
> ** **
>
> We have looked for and not seen a gravity effect, and there does not seem
> to be anything related to momentum, but since all images involve photons
> and reflectivity, etc – it is worth thinking about some kind of photonic
> test procedure.
>

Yes, but I would note that the method used here may be photonic, and hence
the quantities are likely photonic, but these same principles can be
applied to various other forms, for instance if a copper plated PCB was
etched in such a form and electrical energy was applied, then the qualities
would be somewhat different.

So maybe rather than fit the detector to the energy, maybe I would be
better to fit the energy to the detector.

Alas it is always more tempting to increase the sensation I feel through
experimentation than it is to take shots in the dark that the energy will
cross over into changing some desired effect.

Of course I could try and see if Kirlian photography (or updated versions)
can detect an effect, but this sounds like something that would be ignored
anyway.

And inventing a detector to detect an energy I have also 'invented' sounds
like asking to be ignored.

What I am going to have to probably do is work the whole thing out myself
into a genuinely useful and substantive effect, but sometime it is nice to
see if by any chance there is an easier path.

The last 12 or so people I have asked to feel these images (all first time,
most all with no backgound in anything like this) all could feel something
and most enough that they were quite surprised.

But is that really enough?  Even 100% of people might be insufficient to
really gain any significant collaborators.


John

RE: [Vo]:The Unnatural Universe

[Chris Zell]

Thank you!  I have long felt that there is too much theology mixed into physics 
that goes unnoticed and unchallenged.  Feyerabend.. Blessed Be His Name.




Reading that page I came across: "In peril is the notion of "naturalness," 
Albert Einstein's dream that the laws of nature are sublimely beautiful, 
inevitable and self-contained. Without it, physicists face the harsh prospect 
that those laws are just an arbitrary, messy outcome of random fluctuations in 
the fabric of space and time."

This is precisely what I have been saying abut engineering the aether causes 
the rules to change!
Consider the Hutchinson effect, or the inexplicable qualities of cold fusion's 
'NAE's.

Additionally there is evidence of biological transmutation, which appears 
impossible from a conventional perspective of the conditions re

RE: [Vo]:A simple question, take 2

[Jones Beene]

Hi John,

 

I think the problem is the "audience" you have chosen is one that is
presently looking hard for substantive physical effects, especially in light
of the criticism of LENR (where intuition has met with strong challenges) -
yet what these images offer is more suggestive than substantive. You are
apparently very sensitive to them, and others may think there "could be"
something there, but would rather remain noncommittal.

 

It there is some kind of inherent and measurable energy in an image, or type
of image - and/or some connection to an aether field - then as the
"inventor" of the effect - you probably would be wise to find out why it has
the physical effect by implementing any kind of quantification - and then
see if there is a statistical way to validate it.

 

We have looked for and not seen a gravity effect, and there does not seem to
be anything related to momentum, but since all images involve photons and
reflectivity, etc - it is worth thinking about some kind of photonic test
procedure. 

 

Jones

 

 

From: John Berry 

 

 

Ok, Maybe no one is ready, since I have had zero testers give results
positive or negative.

 

But I want to give this a fresh chance due to apparent technical
difficulties the first time, excuse my persistence.

 

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7185/xens.png

 

http://aethericsciences.net78.net/user_images/even%20better.png

 

Open the image, and feel with your palm (hand flat with light tension on
your skin) moving hand toward and away from the center of the image, feel
for any sensation such as heat/warmth, cool or pressure, tingle or buzz
etc...

Also you might feel energy elsewhere, eyes, or on face etc...

 

And you might feel nothing since it's just an image and logically an image
can't have a physical effect, because, well they just don't.

 

Of course if you do feel something then you can accept that as equally
logical since everyone knows that protons are particles (or packets of
electromagnetic disturbance) and the space is a sea of quantum waves and
virtual particles etc..

 

But give your answer, positive, negative, or unclear/inconclusive (too
little to call, but not quite nothing).

 

Give your answer in private if you like.

 

Or just refuse to look thorough my telescope because of what the church of
science would say if they found out.

But if so are you afraid of a negative result, or a positive one?

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

[Vo]:OT: More Cheese Power?

[Charles Francis]

http://www.itn.co.uk/And%20Finally/78885/dynamo-levitates-on-the-side-of-a-d
ouble-decker-bus

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and DGT Similarity?

[Roarty, Francis X]

I know the resistive IR is much lower than the anomalous spectrum 
reported by Mills but if it causes the plasmons in the active material to 
resonate at a higher harmonic this would bring it much closer. I also wonder 
about the applicability of spectrum measurements to the active environment. I 
am pretty sure we see only an average of the spectrum from the lattice and both 
sides of the active geometry - my posit is that fractional Rydberg h  result in 
lower frequency while Rydberg h results in higher and that both can occur but 
the active geometry [cavity] favors fractional formations so I would expect to 
see the hydrogen spectrum broadened but more so on the low side.

 I also wonder if resonance can occur between fractional states where f/h2  
disassociates and recombines in synch with the plasmon resonance and that 
photons emitted from these fractional state hydrogen is  responsible for the 
spectrum spread claimed by Mills. I had a passing notion that the 20% metronome 
effect might even extend to favoring a specific pair of fractional states to 
oscillate between- the spectrum anomaly is  caused by the slaved 
disassociations of  fractional states and there may exist favored pairs. Does 
anyone know how consistent the Mill's claimed spectrum is?
Fran  

[Vo]:A simple question, take 2

[John Berry]

Ok, Maybe no one is ready, since I have had zero testers give results
positive or negative.

But I want to give this a fresh chance due to apparent technical
difficulties the first time, excuse my persistence.

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7185/xens.png

http://aethericsciences.net78.net/user_images/even%20better.png

Open the image, and feel with your palm (hand flat with light tension on
your skin) moving hand toward and away from the center of the image, feel
for any sensation such as heat/warmth, cool or pressure, tingle or buzz
etc...
Also you might feel energy elsewhere, eyes, or on face etc...

And you might feel nothing since it's just an image and logically an image
can't have a physical effect, because, well they just don't.

Of course if you do feel something then you can accept that as equally
logical since everyone knows that protons are particles (or packets of
electromagnetic disturbance) and the space is a sea of quantum waves and
virtual particles etc..

But give your answer, positive, negative, or unclear/inconclusive (too
little to call, but not quite nothing).

Give your answer in private if you like.

Or just refuse to look thorough my telescope because of what the church of
science would say if they found out.
But if so are you afraid of a negative result, or a positive one?

John