Re: [Vo]:ICCF18 Kim Slides
The definition of a coulomb as being in amperes times seconds is showing that charge is the integral of current over time into some region of space. This is consistent with what I would expect. If the moving charge of an electron were to be distributed over the space it occupies without any gaps in the flow, then there would be no external radiation as far as I know. This would be equivalent to a DC current that is always flowing at a constant rate and path. I think of the net structure as being a very large sum of individual loops of flowing charge. The magnitude of the charge in any one constant loop can be different than the other loops, but must be constant over its particular flow path. This should work for any three dimensional shape that each constant current path follows, such as the quantum orbitals associated with atoms. To make an arrangement of this nature work, you must give up the concept of a point sized electron charge in motion around the nucleus. Instead, the electron charge must be stretched out over its three dimensional path. Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 12:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:ICCF18 Kim Slides It could be that charge as a static entity is fundamentally an illusion. Perhaps it is a useful illusion, but it is still an illusion. Notice that the coulomb, the unit of charge, is defined in terms of Amperes X Seconds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb Perhaps all charged particles are self-sustaining currents. Harry On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:21 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Guys, I have a question that I would like for you to answer. You speak of a balance between classical radiation and some zero point balancing act as the reason that the electron remains in an orbit around the central proton in hydrogen without radiation. In most, if not all of the systems that I have played with, the radiation that is observed within the far field can be determined by integration of an infinite number of individual radiating elements. Each one generates a far field pattern that is either enhanced or balanced out by others. This balancing act is why a constant DC current does not radiate energy away from the source supply and the reason that a huge MRI magnet can put out such a large field without radiating away the drive energy. So, why would we not be able to calculate the ZPE field you describe as merely a second component which vector sums with the original field that would have resulted in radiation without that balance? This type of balance would be equivalent to a negative radiation source with a pattern that is exactly out of phase with the original one generated by the orbiting electron. Calculation of far field patterns due to current can be quite enlightening as the net effects appear to violate COE in many cases. The simple DC loop current case is an interesting example to consider. Each differential element of current around the loop should radiate energy to the far field in a well defined manner. But, when the vector sum of all of the radiating elements is completed, a balance is found that demonstrates that no net far field is seen. Perhaps something of this nature occurs with an atom and the orbiting electron. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: puthoff puth...@earthtech.org Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2013 9:32 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:ICCF18 Kim Slides Mark, Just finished Puthoff’s 2012 paper and although I like his conclusion below I still feel he is avoiding giving credit to the creation and annihilation of pairs as powering all atomic and subatomic motion, he refers to a “balance”between photon emission and ZP absorption but appears to be paying homage to our ingrained assumption in physics that atomic motion is just an inherent property of matter where I would argue that matter would collapse and time would not even exist without thesevirtual pairs streaming thru our spatial dimensions perpendicular to space.. [snip] Atoms therefore constitute open systemsengaged in dynamic interactions with the surrounding vacuum states. Specifically, the on net radiationless characteristicof the ground state is shown here to derive from particle‐vacuum interactions in which a dynamic equilibriumis established between radiation emission due to particle acceleration, and compensatory absorptionfrom the zero‐point fluctuations of the vacuum electromagnetic field. Thus, the vacuum field is formally necessaryfor the stability of atomic structures, and this underlying principle therefore constitutes an important featureof quantum ground states. [/snip] . Fran _ From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 12:35 PM To:
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
when people want to make good decision they need good information. when people advise you but have no flesh in the game, they migh fall into wishfull thinking, conformist vision, submission to consensus by fear. betting, like investing have been observing as less delusional, and information from people who invest or bet, are better than from supporters or tawkers (as says Taleb alias Fat Tony). anyway as shows Enron boss who keep his equities while he was desperately trying to save his company from banckruptcy, people can have flesh in the game and be delusional. That is the basic of the Roland Benabou theory. It happen typically in systems when the delusion of others hurts you, and less when it gives you opportunities. It starts typically with position that seems rational (even if they are errors, but initially legitimate), but when bad news happen, to avoid to reconsider the choice, to admit huge losses, people simply ignore the data... about LENR I have another fear. It is an easy bet to claim LENR is real, and LENR+ will be industrial one day. the problem is that this depend on the opinion of a huge mass of delusional people, who can infinitely impede the recognition and development of LENR. there is no guarantee that the LENR companies are not closed by decision of all the government, avatar UNO decision, advised by MIT lords of science. No guaranty that greenpeace does not lobby all governments to forbid LENR, and LENR research, they the do on other technologies like shales. No guaranty that politician does not push death-comando to destroy the LENR companies like they do with GMO... No guaranty that google try to dereference LENr sites like they tried to do on some other heretic science, or as it is done in China, or in france for copyright violation, revisionism or child-porn... no guaranty that heretic companies in Africa or Iran don't get bombed by drone for such experiments... You don't bet on LENR being real, on Defkalion technology being real, on Rossi E-cat COP=6. you can only bet on - LENR BEING *ACCEPTED* - DEFKALION BEING *RECOGNIZED* AS REAL - E-CAT COP *VALIDATED* AS 6 all that in mostly human delusion dependent... as peter gluck remind us , this look like a soviet trial, where logic and evidence are not really the same as in the material world we know... just reading the arguments of the hardskeptics give me strong reason to be afraid that ther will be no recognition by those naybelievers... 2013/8/7 Michael Hendrix mina...@sdc.org Forgive me for asking this, but what, exactly, is the point in making bets as to whether LENR is real, will come to market, will be published in a reputable journal, etc? For me, this line of discussion is a childish distraction. Go to Vegas. (Maybe Laughlin,would be more to your style). best regards, Michael Hendrix On Aug 6, 2013, at 8:53 AM, blaze spinnaker wrote: Anyways. Talk is cheap. If you think it's such a low chance - bet me! On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:48 AM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: As things stand I think there is no chance that any article will be published in a respectable journal or mass media newspaper or website. Well, unless things have changed in the last few years to make cold fusion even more disreputable, this simply isn't true. I'll let Kevin fill you in on the details.. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: I was previously willing to give 4:1(20%) odds and take 1:1(50%) that an article would be presented in a reputable journal As things stand I think there is no chance that any article will be published in a respectable journal or mass media newspaper or website. I do not know anyone who thinking of writing an article, and I probably know most of the people capable of it. Mark Gibbs demonstrated what happens to mainstream reporters who talk about cold fusion. I realize that he denies he was fired for talking about cold fusion, but I think he is being diplomatic. His last article said he planned to talk more about it, so he did not see this coming. I doubt that a paper or mass media article would be helpful. Both sides oppose publicity. Defkalion and Rossi do not want an article, and no journal or newspaper wants to publish one. Generally speaking, in commerce, confidential information is worthless. Most secrets turn out to be mistakes. Anything with intellectual property value should be patented, which soon makes it open to the public. Many patent applications are also worthless. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
The reason is to inject reality into the conversation. I am thinking of a new formation of a bet. A generally accepted detailed description of a consistently reproducible experiment which can perform a COP of 2 for over 24 hours (that is total energy in is 1/2 of total energy out). By generally accepted, I'm even willing to go with super majority consensus of veterans on Vortex rather than the 'delusional public'. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 1:29 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: when people want to make good decision they need good information. when people advise you but have no flesh in the game, they migh fall into wishfull thinking, conformist vision, submission to consensus by fear. betting, like investing have been observing as less delusional, and information from people who invest or bet, are better than from supporters or tawkers (as says Taleb alias Fat Tony). anyway as shows Enron boss who keep his equities while he was desperately trying to save his company from banckruptcy, people can have flesh in the game and be delusional. That is the basic of the Roland Benabou theory. It happen typically in systems when the delusion of others hurts you, and less when it gives you opportunities. It starts typically with position that seems rational (even if they are errors, but initially legitimate), but when bad news happen, to avoid to reconsider the choice, to admit huge losses, people simply ignore the data... about LENR I have another fear. It is an easy bet to claim LENR is real, and LENR+ will be industrial one day. the problem is that this depend on the opinion of a huge mass of delusional people, who can infinitely impede the recognition and development of LENR. there is no guarantee that the LENR companies are not closed by decision of all the government, avatar UNO decision, advised by MIT lords of science. No guaranty that greenpeace does not lobby all governments to forbid LENR, and LENR research, they the do on other technologies like shales. No guaranty that politician does not push death-comando to destroy the LENR companies like they do with GMO... No guaranty that google try to dereference LENr sites like they tried to do on some other heretic science, or as it is done in China, or in france for copyright violation, revisionism or child-porn... no guaranty that heretic companies in Africa or Iran don't get bombed by drone for such experiments... You don't bet on LENR being real, on Defkalion technology being real, on Rossi E-cat COP=6. you can only bet on - LENR BEING *ACCEPTED* - DEFKALION BEING *RECOGNIZED* AS REAL - E-CAT COP *VALIDATED* AS 6 all that in mostly human delusion dependent... as peter gluck remind us , this look like a soviet trial, where logic and evidence are not really the same as in the material world we know... just reading the arguments of the hardskeptics give me strong reason to be afraid that ther will be no recognition by those naybelievers... 2013/8/7 Michael Hendrix mina...@sdc.org Forgive me for asking this, but what, exactly, is the point in making bets as to whether LENR is real, will come to market, will be published in a reputable journal, etc? For me, this line of discussion is a childish distraction. Go to Vegas. (Maybe Laughlin,would be more to your style). best regards, Michael Hendrix On Aug 6, 2013, at 8:53 AM, blaze spinnaker wrote: Anyways. Talk is cheap. If you think it's such a low chance - bet me! On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:48 AM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: As things stand I think there is no chance that any article will be published in a respectable journal or mass media newspaper or website. Well, unless things have changed in the last few years to make cold fusion even more disreputable, this simply isn't true. I'll let Kevin fill you in on the details.. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: I was previously willing to give 4:1(20%) odds and take 1:1(50%) that an article would be presented in a reputable journal As things stand I think there is no chance that any article will be published in a respectable journal or mass media newspaper or website. I do not know anyone who thinking of writing an article, and I probably know most of the people capable of it. Mark Gibbs demonstrated what happens to mainstream reporters who talk about cold fusion. I realize that he denies he was fired for talking about cold fusion, but I think he is being diplomatic. His last article said he planned to talk more about it, so he did not see this coming. I doubt that a paper or mass media article would be helpful. Both sides oppose publicity. Defkalion and Rossi do not want an article, and no journal or newspaper wants to publish one. Generally speaking, in commerce, confidential information is worthless. Most secrets turn out to be
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
You don't need to look any further then. Take a heat pump and you have something to celebrate. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:02 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: The reason is to inject reality into the conversation. I am thinking of a new formation of a bet. A generally accepted detailed description of a consistently reproducible experiment which can perform a COP of 2 for over 24 hours (that is total energy in is 1/2 of total energy out). By generally accepted, I'm even willing to go with super majority consensus of veterans on Vortex rather than the 'delusional public'.
[Vo]:Former Republican Secretary of State, George Schultzon Energy and Global Warming
Greetings Vortex, From Scientific American..interesting comments by former Secretary of State, George Schultz on Energy and Global Warming- he would love LENR: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=questions-and-answers-with-george-shultz-on-climate-change-and-energy Respectfully, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA I cannot believe that the Republicans yanked the solar panels off of the White House.
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
Yeah? A heat pump uses LENR+? Huh. And here I thought it was pumping heat. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: You don't need to look any further then. Take a heat pump and you have something to celebrate. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:02 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: The reason is to inject reality into the conversation. I am thinking of a new formation of a bet. A generally accepted detailed description of a consistently reproducible experiment which can perform a COP of 2 for over 24 hours (that is total energy in is 1/2 of total energy out). By generally accepted, I'm even willing to go with super majority consensus of veterans on Vortex rather than the 'delusional public'.
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
In case you're also not familiar with Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump Heat pumps are used to provide heating because less high-grade energy is required for their operation than appears in the released heat. Most of the energy for heating comes from the external environment, and only a fraction comes from electricity (or some other high-grade energy source required to run a compressor). In electrically powered heat pumps, the heat transferred can be three or four times larger than the electrical power consumed, giving the system a Coefficient of Performance (COP) of 3 or 4, as opposed to a COP of 1 of a conventional electrical resistance heater, in which all heat is produced from input electrical energy. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:42 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: Yeah? A heat pump uses LENR+? Huh. And here I thought it was pumping heat. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: You don't need to look any further then. Take a heat pump and you have something to celebrate. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:02 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: The reason is to inject reality into the conversation. I am thinking of a new formation of a bet. A generally accepted detailed description of a consistently reproducible experiment which can perform a COP of 2 for over 24 hours (that is total energy in is 1/2 of total energy out). By generally accepted, I'm even willing to go with super majority consensus of veterans on Vortex rather than the 'delusional public'.
RE: [Vo]:Platinum and other metals point to cosmic impact cause of Younger Dryas
From: Rich Murray http://phys.org/news/2013-08-evidence-cosmic-impact-younger-dryas.html Large Pt anomaly in the Greenland ice core points to a cataclysm... Does anyone who looks at the evidence really doubt a cosmic impact for this event? ...or ... more interesting, does this new finding indicate that there is an LENR connection? A number of past studies have found the evidence in a so-called black mat which can be found all over North America http://phys.org/news106410997.html#nRlv ... where they found metallic micro-spherules in the comet fragments; these micro-spherules contained nano-diamonds. The comet also carried carbon molecules called fullerenes (buckyballs), with gases trapped inside that indicated an extraterrestrial origin. OK - now we add excess platinum into the mix. Hmm... heat and compress ... sounds a lot like a recipe for the proverbial LENR bombe, does it not, inspector ? attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
It's not wiki, it's Wikipedia. Woo, I can say obvious things too, look at that. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: In case you're also not familiar with Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump Heat pumps are used to provide heating because less high-grade energy is required for their operation than appears in the released heat. Most of the energy for heating comes from the external environment, and only a fraction comes from electricity (or some other high-grade energy source required to run a compressor). In electrically powered heat pumps, the heat transferred can be three or four times larger than the electrical power consumed, giving the system a Coefficient of Performance (COP) of 3 or 4, as opposed to a COP of 1 of a conventional electrical resistance heater, in which all heat is produced from input electrical energy. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:42 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: Yeah? A heat pump uses LENR+? Huh. And here I thought it was pumping heat. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: You don't need to look any further then. Take a heat pump and you have something to celebrate. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:02 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: The reason is to inject reality into the conversation. I am thinking of a new formation of a bet. A generally accepted detailed description of a consistently reproducible experiment which can perform a COP of 2 for over 24 hours (that is total energy in is 1/2 of total energy out). By generally accepted, I'm even willing to go with super majority consensus of veterans on Vortex rather than the 'delusional public'.
Re: [Vo]:Former Republican Secretary of State, George Schultzon Energy and Global Warming
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: I cannot believe that the Republicans yanked the solar panels off of the White House. Are they cost effective without some kind of subsidy in the District of Columbia? They certainly are not here in Atlanta.
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: about LENR I have another fear. It is an easy bet to claim LENR is real, and LENR+ will be industrial one day. the problem is that this depend on the opinion of a huge mass of delusional people, who can infinitely impede the recognition and development of LENR. Well, maybe not infinitely. The power of money and public opinion is a strong counter-force against such people. there is no guarantee that the LENR companies are not closed by decision of all the government, avatar UNO decision, advised by MIT lords of science. No guaranty that greenpeace does not lobby all governments to forbid LENR, and LENR research, they the do on other technologies like shales. Greenpeace and other environmental organizations probably will lobby against it. They did in 1989. No guaranty that politician does not push death-comando to destroy the LENR companies like they do with GMO... That is far-fetched! Things like that seldom happen in real life. Only in movies and potboiler novels. no guaranty that heretic companies in Africa or Iran don't get bombed by drone for such experiments... Very unlikely. The only government with a drone at present is the US government. The US government does not oppose cold fusion research. On the contrary, most of the funding in this field comes from Uncle Sam. If there were people opposed to cold fusion who could order assassinations and control drones, I suppose they would prevent me from operating my website. They would try to stop Rossi and Defkalion. I do not think anyone is trying to do that. I know that people all over the world download papers, including people from many government agencies. This research is not secret. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: A generally accepted detailed description of a consistently reproducible experiment . . . How consistent? As consistent as transistors were in 1954? As consistent as a Model T crank starter, or would you demand something like a production automobile ignition today? which can perform a COP of 2 for over 24 hours (that is total energy in is 1/2 of total energy out). By generally accepted, I'm even willing to go with super majority consensus of veterans on Vortex rather than the 'delusional public'. Such results were published in 1990 by McKubre and others. If you are looking for a consensus on whether commercially practical power output is possible, or whether it exists, I expect that the majority of people reading this list would agree that the Levi paper proves that Rossi has something close to commercially practical. Except that the cells sometimes melt. I have not taken a public opinion poll so I would not know what the majority here thinks, but that is my sense. You never know until you take a poll. Even then you might be wrong. As my late mother said, people responding to polls tend to say whatever pops into their heads at that moment. (She was an expert on public opinion research.) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
I wrote: As my late mother said, people responding to polls tend to say whatever pops into their heads at that moment. (She was an expert on public opinion research.) Seriously, she did say that, and she was an expert. See: http://www.amstat.org/sections/srms/Proceedings/papers/1983_126.pdf http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2747532?uid=3739896uid=2uid=4uid=3739256sid=21102520962221 She was also known for publishing papers that dismembered certain pop-science-based theories about motivation that were highly popular with famous Madison Avenue advertising firms in the 1950s. Kind of the opposite of Mad Men. She left some hilarious correspondence about that. Anyway, she said to be careful when you make sweeping statements about people's beliefs. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
Such results were published in 1990 by McKubre and others. Really? Than why aren't the MFMP guys using that paper rather than reporting 5% excess energy with celani wires?
Re: [Vo]:Platinum and other metals point to cosmic impact cause of Younger Dryas
We need to crack open all cometoids, meteoroids, planetoids as I believe we will find black branes at the nucleus/core triggering LENR decay at their surface, which to me explains why the sun, gas giants and comet comas are mostly hydrogen and helium. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Wednesday, August 7, 2013, Jones Beene wrote: From: Rich Murray http://phys.org/news/2013-08-evidence-cosmic-impact-younger-dryas.html Large Pt anomaly in the Greenland ice core points to a cataclysm... Does anyone who looks at the evidence really doubt a cosmic impact for this event? ...or ... more interesting, does this new finding indicate that there is an LENR connection? A number of past studies have found the evidence in a so-called black mat which can be found all over North America http://phys.org/news106410997.html#nRlv ... where they found metallic micro-spherules in the comet fragments; these micro-spherules contained nano-diamonds. The comet also carried carbon molecules called fullerenes (buckyballs), with gases trapped inside that indicated an extraterrestrial origin. OK - now we add excess platinum into the mix. Hmm... heat and compress ... sounds a lot like a recipe for the proverbial LENR bombe, does it not, inspector ?
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
about death commando and dron I exxagerate, but it is based on fact. GMOP research in france is dead because of permanent harassement, destruction of tools, lobbying on mayors agains factoris and research... Same for shales. today in france research is forbidden on GMO and shales. not only usage, but research. this is to add to the fact that in france, most of basic research is public, and most of private research ask for subsidies... anyway , because I'm not really afraid of drone attack,and if LENR is banned from western world, we will be welcome in the emerging world. If the chinese can work on EmDrive, LENR is an easy bet. 2013/8/7 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: about LENR I have another fear. It is an easy bet to claim LENR is real, and LENR+ will be industrial one day. the problem is that this depend on the opinion of a huge mass of delusional people, who can infinitely impede the recognition and development of LENR. Well, maybe not infinitely. The power of money and public opinion is a strong counter-force against such people. there is no guarantee that the LENR companies are not closed by decision of all the government, avatar UNO decision, advised by MIT lords of science. No guaranty that greenpeace does not lobby all governments to forbid LENR, and LENR research, they the do on other technologies like shales. Greenpeace and other environmental organizations probably will lobby against it. They did in 1989. No guaranty that politician does not push death-comando to destroy the LENR companies like they do with GMO... That is far-fetched! Things like that seldom happen in real life. Only in movies and potboiler novels. no guaranty that heretic companies in Africa or Iran don't get bombed by drone for such experiments... Very unlikely. The only government with a drone at present is the US government. The US government does not oppose cold fusion research. On the contrary, most of the funding in this field comes from Uncle Sam. If there were people opposed to cold fusion who could order assassinations and control drones, I suppose they would prevent me from operating my website. They would try to stop Rossi and Defkalion. I do not think anyone is trying to do that. I know that people all over the world download papers, including people from many government agencies. This research is not secret. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: when people want to make good decision they need good information. when people advise you but have no flesh in the game, they migh fall into wishfull thinking, conformist vision, submission to consensus by fear. And imagine if they not only have no flesh in the game, but they don't even have their name in the game as they may pseudonymous comments.
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
because they try to fight the delusion... we all do. Taleb says that for something serious, 1 or 2 evidence is enough... I put FP longchampt, someone else put McKubre and Miley... some bockris and BARC... Elforsk test is positive, no serious doubt... just mental wank and lazy reader who conclude it is dubious at the first illuminated who claim a doubt with a crazy theory... about LENR, the world is a conspiracy theory group. no checking of evidence, reverse logic, shortcut, black and white... typically conspiracy fan. kind people when there is disagreement, conclude it is dubious, and follow the mainstream opinion. It is easy for the conspiracy theorist to moan without evidence against LENR, which make laymen conclude it is dubious... if we applied the same level of requirement on most claim of science, there won't be any knowledge. 2013/8/7 blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com Such results were published in 1990 by McKubre and others. Really? Than why aren't the MFMP guys using that paper rather than reporting 5% excess energy with celani wires?
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Such results were published in 1990 by McKubre and others. Really? Than why aren't the MFMP guys using that paper rather than reporting 5% excess energy with celani wires? For the reasons I described in my presentation at ICCF18. It takes most people a year or two to achieve that, and you have to have PdD level knowledge of electrochemistry. McKubre, Miles, Bockris and a few others managed to do it in 6 months because they are among the world's top electrochemists. The MFMP people are hoping to find something easier. I should upload that presentation. The hacker incident at LENR-CANR.org seems to be under control so maybe I will. I have not made any changes lately because every second day the people at the ISP have erased everything and installed a backup from before the attack. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
Jed, Apparently the attack on your site has begun. Someone may not want the information contained there distributed further. :-) Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:10 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27% blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Such results were published in 1990 by McKubre and others. Really? Than why aren't the MFMP guys using that paper rather than reporting 5% excess energy with celani wires? For the reasons I described in my presentation at ICCF18. It takes most people a year or two to achieve that, and you have to have PdD level knowledge of electrochemistry. McKubre, Miles, Bockris and a few others managed to do it in 6 months because they are among the world's top electrochemists. The MFMP people are hoping to find something easier. I should upload that presentation. The hacker incident at LENR-CANR.org seems to be under control so maybe I will. I have not made any changes lately because every second day the people at the ISP have erased everything and installed a backup from before the attack. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Bosenova
Hi Robin, We are at opposite opinions regarding IRH once shrunk... is there any reason you think IRH would want to stay shrunk? The Puthoff model posits that virtual particles push the electron away from the nucleus in opposition to the electrical attraction establishing a balance.. Casimir geometry suppresses the larger virtual particles reducing this opposition to the electrons endless pursuit of the proton... This would mean that the orbital will be pushed back up when the gas atom exits the geometry but in both cases the orbital is in balance at a ground state established by vacuum density. I am ok with chemical bonds opposing this transition and can see IRH atoms forming molecules or ionic compounds that lock these orbital in the shrunken state even when the geometry is removed but would expect the orbital to return to equilibrium instantly when in the atomic state. I suspect this pressure to return to normal ground state would even discount the energy needed for these atoms to become monatomic. Fran -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Bosenova In reply to Frank roarty's message of Tue, 6 Aug 2013 21:04:38 -0400: Hi Fran, This wouldn't be reversible. Once shrunk, they stay shrunk. That's why it would be necessary to constantly introduce new Hydrogen. However at several hundred eV / atom, and sea water as a source of Hydrogen, we could go on for billions of years. However one has to wonder what happens to all that IRH. It would be very dense, and might end up in the core of the Earth, where every now and again a couple of atoms would probably convert to D (very slowly). (See also Jones' previous conjectures along these lines.) Assuming of course that it doesn't undergo fusion reactions sooner than that. [snip] Robin, Nice concept.. I have seen a couple threads regarding this transition from Rydberg to inverse Rydberg but I don't know if anyone else has previously suggested this as the source of anomalous heat.. an endless reversible transition based on geometry and hydrogen populations. Fran -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bosenova In reply to Daniel Rocha's message of Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:25:24 -0300: Hi, [snip] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosenova Sounds like Inverse Rydberg Rubidium suddenly forming. :) If so, this could reveal the trigger that is needed to convert Rydberg H into IRH, with the release of hundreds of eV / atom. Once the energy is removed, new Hydrogen introduced and promoted to RH, then we start all over again with the next cycle. Power output regulated by the frequency of the cycling. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Apparently the attack on your site has begun. Someone may not want the information contained there distributed further. :-) If that attack is the best the government spooks can pull off, we have nothing to fear from the NSA. The hacker did not even get in; he left his nickname for anyone to see; and everything he might have gotten into is readily accessible from the screen he hacked. It reminds me of the Watergate break in. Everything the thieves tried to take they might have taken by walking in broad daylight, taking papers out of file cabinets, and Xeroxing them. There was no security. No one would have asked any questions. They might have sent someone in to work there as a volunteer who would have learned everything in a week. (My father was working there at the time and that is what he said.) In the 2008 Obama campaign, their get-out-the-vote (GOTV) call lists, scripts and everything else was freely available to anyone who logged into their site. They had hundreds of thousands of volunteers tapping into the database and calling people. Any Republican could have tapped into the database, called those people, and told them not to vote. A mischievous Republican might have pretended to be drunk Democrat, making abusive calls. I suppose some people did play some dirty tricks. The Obama campaign decided to ignore problems like that and make everything public because they figured they would attract more enthusiastic volunteers than people playing dirty tricks. They figured it did more good than harm. I expect they were right. Most people, most of the time, will do the right thing. Barring unusual circumstances -- such as leaving a large sum of money unattended in plain sight in a crowded airport -- most people are trustworthy and law abiding. - Jed
[Vo]:1990 patent application from Fleischmann et al.
With some difficulty, I located this: https://www.google.com/patents/WO1990010935A1 This is text only. A facsimile with the drawing and whatnot is here: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument;jsessionid=1390745C5115A135F05177764A1A7766.espacenet_levelx_prod_3?CC=WONR=9010935A1KC=A1FT=DND=date=19900920DB=locale=en_EP Fig. III-7E on p. 16 is titled Specific Excess Energy, Megajoules. It shows the cell produced ~18 MJ. That was a lot for the early days. - Jed
[Vo]:Let me know if you cannot access something at LENR-CANR.org
I added some security jazz to prevent hacker attacks. Let me know if you have trouble accessing anything at LENR-CANR.org. Against the advice of the ISP, I decided to continue allowing access to some folders such as: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ Per requests from Jean-Paul and David Kidwell, I am now going to change the database structure to allow many-to-many connections. This will allow multiple co-authors to point to one document, and also for a document with many papers in it (such as a book) it will allow many titles and authors to point to one document. I have been meaning to do this for some time. Actually, I think Kidwell wants something from the previous incarnation of the site, specifically this: http://lenr-canr.org/DetailOnly.htm My program still generates this so why not upload it? I will add it to the menus. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Let me know if you cannot access something at LENR-CANR.org
Being able to sort on Journal would be handy as well. Currently I think you can only sort on author. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I added some security jazz to prevent hacker attacks. Let me know if you have trouble accessing anything at LENR-CANR.org. Against the advice of the ISP, I decided to continue allowing access to some folders such as: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ Per requests from Jean-Paul and David Kidwell, I am now going to change the database structure to allow many-to-many connections. This will allow multiple co-authors to point to one document, and also for a document with many papers in it (such as a book) it will allow many titles and authors to point to one document. I have been meaning to do this for some time. Actually, I think Kidwell wants something from the previous incarnation of the site, specifically this: http://lenr-canr.org/DetailOnly.htm My program still generates this so why not upload it? I will add it to the menus. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Let me know if you cannot access something at LENR-CANR.org
blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Being able to sort on Journal would be handy as well. Currently I think you can only sort on author. See: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1095 Select SEARCH and Publisher Instructions: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1172 - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re-adjusting odds on Rossi/Defkalion being real lower, now ~27%
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:02 AM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: I am thinking of a new formation of a bet. Just to go off on a tangent here (I'm good for that), I'm open-minded about the possibilities of prediction markets. It seems like people have the ability to use bayesian reasoning (a.k.a. intuition), and that risking losing something important to them can help sharpen their concentration. Perhaps it would be reputation rather than money, but money might also do the trick in a setting where only limited sums can be wagered (to prevent distortions in the prediction market). And perhaps bayesian reasoning of a number of people, suitably aggregated, is even more powerful. So I'm generally open to the idea that there might be something to this whole approach. I would be very interested to know of any studies as to its efficacy. But one question I have has to do with nickel futures. I assume that if a prediction market is better than the flipping of a coin as to the probability of an outcome, the actual stock market will show a phenomenon. In that case I would expect nickel futures have trended up during the last few years. Instead I see them trending down since 2008. (Please note -- I am not giving any kind of investment advice here.) If I believed LENR was probably real (which I do), and I believed prediction markets are better than flipping a coin (I don't have a strong opinion on this one), I would expect nickel futures to trend up over the last few years, especially since Rossi came onto the scene in 2011 or so, but this is when they have really started going down, after a momentary rise. What part of the analysis am I getting wrong? Eric
