Re: [Vo]:Off topic, or maybe not

[Che]

Plenty of people understand this.
Don't drink the Imperialist Kool-Aid, people. WWIII means the utter end of
a lot more than cold fusion research...



On Monday, January 6, 2020, Chris Zell  wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies
>
>
>
> Does Israel have ready-made lobbyist groups who are pushing for war and
who might create any false news or false flag to achieve that?
>
>
>
> From: Jones Beene 
> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2020 10:02 AM
> To: vortex 
> Subject: [Vo]:Off topic, or maybe not
>
>
>
> Does Iran already have all or part of the missing Russian nuclear arsenal
which went missing from Kazakhstan ?
>
>
>
> Does Iran Already Have Nuclear Weapons?
>
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> Does Iran Already Have Nuclear Weapons?
>
> What if what you have been told over and over again is not really the
truth?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
2020: The Year Everything Comes Into Focus..

Re: [Vo]:Quantum Non-locality

[Che]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:30 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
wrote:

> >>it might be preferable to accept them as each true within their
> respective domains<<
>
> When "they" talk of those "domains" - there is a lot of handwaving;
> general relativity is often said to breakdown at the singularity, and
> quantum mechanics supposedly fails to be able to deal with gravity; but no
> maths for that is presented as to precisely when equations from such
> theories fail.
>

Isn't that 'divide-by-zero' issues..?








>
>
> On Monday, 8 June 2020, 20:03:09 BST, H LV  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 4:30 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
> wrote:
>
> >>Thoughts?<<
>
> there are problems combining relativity (especially general relativity)
> with quantum physics, so when people try to talk from things combining them
> then they are not on solid ground.
>
>
> I only mentioned SR because it is often wrongly invoked to dismiss any
> experiment needing simultaneity.
> On the issue reconciling the two domains of quantum mechanics and SR/GR,
> instead of trying to change one or the other or both, it might be
> preferable to accept them as each true within their respective domains and
> build a bridge between the domains by integrating them technologically
> instead trying to merge them into a single mathematical theory.
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
> From my point-of-view relativity has been mistranslated and misunderstood
> so false claims are made about it. My latest video-I think it was mainly
> written by his wife.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 3 June 2020, 17:25:51 BST, H LV 
> wrote:
>
>
> Quantum Non-locality explained by Sabine Hossenfelder
> https://youtu.be/XL9wWeEmQvo
>
> I disagree with the conclusion that non-locality cannot be used to send an
> FLT message. What is overlooked is that an indeterminate state, i.e.
> unmeasured state is also a type of information.
>
> If the transmitter and the receiver have synchronised clocks (which is
> possible in SR) then the transmitter can send a message by a sequence of
> binary choices: either measure or not measure the particle's spin in the
> diagonal direction at a given time. What the receiver detects will be
> meaningfully informed by the sequence of the transmitter's choices.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Harry
>
>

Re: [Vo]:anyone know this guy

[Che]

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:54 PM Terry Blanton  wrote:

> Quite eclectic.  Exited 18 yrs ago.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_C._Sutton
>


I heard this recurrent anti-communist message just literally yesterday.
It's regular John Bircher, et al. propaganda.

-- grok.




>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:44 PM Frank Znidarsic 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Fusion-Secret-Energy-Revolution-ebook/dp/B01EK2KT7W/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SD3YKFP6FATDTSC7TK0S
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: magnetism heat and dimensions--

[Che]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:18 PM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Particle physics has originally been based on the rigid mass operator.
> Unkluckily only a few physicists understand master level rotating mass
> mechanics as this is a field used/covered by mechanical engineering.
>
> Why physics did use the fringe Virial approach (square integrable
> functions..) is an enigma. May be most were mathematicians bare of any
> physics understanding.
>
> The solutions of the rigid mass operator problems are torus surfaces! It
> is thus no surprise that all particles can be modeled by  higher order
> tori! Of course we do not need any fantasy numbers or point masses...
>
>
> J.W.
>
Is it your claim that mass is a function of the inertia of spinning energy
-- here, in some toroidal form..?

-- grok.





>
> On 27.06.2020 23:59, H LV wrote:
>
> I am not sure if this is related but I always had a problem with the
> concept of a point mass or a point charge, since mathematically that would
> imply infinite mass density or charge density or alternatively zero mass
> and zero charge. However these conundrums are resolved mathematically by
> moving from the real number system to the hyperreal number system first
> formulated by Abraham Robinson in the early 1960s. The hyperreal number
> system extends the real number system by including  infinitely small
> numbers and infinitely large numbers and gives a logical foundation for the
> calculus of infinitesimals known as "non-standard analysis". Today  most
> physicists and students still learn calculus  using "standard analysis"
> which is based on the notion of limits and was developed by mathematicians
> in the 19th century.
>
> An interesting property of infinitesimals is that they come in different
> sizes. For example if  ε   is an infinitesimal then  ε  < 2 ε  < 3ε
>  ...etc.
> The reciprocal of an infinitesimal number is an infinite number, so there
> are also different size infinities. For example 1/ε  > 1/2ε > 1/3ε
> ...etc.
>
> Harry
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:35 PM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:
>
>> The fantasy of the old SM guard always seemed to be limitless...
>>
>> SO(4) physics exactly explains how the claimed force "gravity" is
>> generated and mediated between hadronic masses.
>>
>> Since about 1 year there is game over for SM. No more cheating with point
>> particles that do not behave as points because these points have a magnetic
>> moment. No more cheating with massless charge as such an assumption simply
>> is a form of infantile dementia if no proof is given why a massless charge
>> does move without inertia and no force is need for a circular orbit. Most
>> idiotic is the assumption charge is wave as the magnetic moment then would
>> oscillate. We can go on with this as you only need college level
>> understanding to find out that the foundation of SM is children logic.
>>
>>
>> J.W.
>> On 26.06.2020 20:20, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-cartoon-picture-of-magnets-that-has-transformed-science-20200624/
>>
>>
>>
>> some INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS….
>>
>>
>>
>> Loss of the directional control of angular momentum in nuclei  is
>> probably is associated with the creation of unstable nuclear  conditions
>> and isotopic transitions.  It  may also  change gravity
>>
>> Of a group of nuclear magnetic dipoles, if the TOTAO magnetic dipole
>> attraction is modified—either increases or reduced?  *This question   stems
>> from the CONJECTURE that gravity results from an *random* collection of
>> nuclear magnetic dipoles  and the respective 0  (zero) net angular
>> momentum.
>>
>>
>>
>> The calculation of an attractive magnetic field at large distances
>> between randomly oriented groups of magnetic dipoles  supports the
>> CONJECTURE  noted above IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> *http://downloads.hindawi.com/archive/1998/079537.pdf
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> A better reference would be nice.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>> --
>> Jürg Wyttenbach
>> Bifangstr. 22
>> 8910 Affoltern am Albis
>>
>> +41 44 760 14 18
>> +41 79 246 36 06
>>
>> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr. 22
> 8910 Affoltern am Albis
>
> +41 44 760 14 18
> +41 79 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fact or fiction: Irish firm invents everlasting battery

[Che]

Mary Yugo has been after all OU from the very first day Steorn came to our
attention.



On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, H Veeder  wrote:

> Fact or fiction: Irish firm invents everlasting battery
>
> Is Steorn’s Orbo technology a non-polluting, supercheap source of power –
> or a delusion ?
>
> ​(article and video)​
>
>
> http://www.irishtimes.com/business/fact-or-fiction-irish-firm-invents-everlasting-battery-1.2506832
>
>
> ​Harry​
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fact or fiction: Irish firm invents everlasting battery

[Che]

A kinder, gentler hatchet-job.



On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, H Veeder  wrote:

> Fact or fiction: Irish firm invents everlasting battery
>
> Is Steorn’s Orbo technology a non-polluting, supercheap source of power –
> or a delusion ?
>
> ​(article and video)​
>
>
> http://www.irishtimes.com/business/fact-or-fiction-irish-firm-invents-everlasting-battery-1.2506832
>
>
> ​Harry​
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fact or fiction: Irish firm invents everlasting battery

[Che]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> Hi Robin,
>
> I understand you to be suggesting that ions in the air might restore the
> state of the Orbo by removing electrons from one plate through
> de-ionization. An ion comes along and picks up an electron, becoming
> electrically neutral and restoring the original potential by a small amount.
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 8:43 PM,  wrote:
>
> Many of these do not recombine immediately, because dry air is a poor
>> conductor.
>
>
> On this theory, would you expect the Orbo to work less effectively in a
> humid environment?
>
> Eric
>
>
What are the likely minimum and maximum operating temperatures..?

Re: [Vo]:Something big is happening

[Che]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Robert Dorr  wrote:

>
> Watch the MFMP site (Quantumheat.org). It looks like a major announcement
> shortly.
>

Wouldn't it be swell if a major LENR breakthru came from an 'Open Source'
source...

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

[Che]

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> That opinion is an overreaction. It will take 20 to 30 years before any
> fraction of transportation is converted over to LENR.
>


It would take a lot less than that in wartime.









> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> This article describes the troubles that oil-producing nations are
>> experiencing. These problems be far worse if it becomes generally known
>> that cold fusion is real. That knowledge alone will reduce the price of
>> oil. If cold fusion succeeds these nations will all be bankrupt.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

[Che]

No wonder people despair -- when they don't just smirk, knowingly -- at the
world of Over-Unity research.

I have also long-time despaired at the general political naivete exhibited
in fora like vortex-L. Engineering and physics knowledge is not nearly
enough to see these sorts of efforts through to success, in such a world as
ours...



On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:40 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> That is a very straight legal case Rossi reveals that points to the
> failure of IH to honor its contract. Rossi is clearly going to win this
> unless IH pays up the $89 million. Rossi is in the catbird seat as he is
> being seen to enforce his IP and license agreements which is a vital task
> under IP law. The courts usually take a very simple view of such matters if
> the payments are not made and infringements are shown then Rossi gets ALL
> his IP back and IH loses any licenses.
>
>
>
> Since Rossi has now proven his tech works and IH has proven that big money
> will invest, aka Woodward funds, Rossi will find it simple to raise similar
> sums. Good for him he has played very cool and straight with IH and it
> seems clear IH has not done the same. We shall have to see what the courts
> say but in the meantime Rossi owns it all and can move ahead. Worst case
> scenario for Rossi is IH pays up to retain the license.
>
>
>
> Given the obvious leaks that have been out prior to this document saying
> Rossi and IH were having difficulties someone on the inside has been
> playing a dark game against Rossi by feeding the trolls.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 5:11 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint
>
>
>
> See:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf
>

[Vo]:Rossi/E-Cat lawsuit: A long-in-the-making set-up job..?

[Che]

This thought must have occurred to others -- even when things were going
swimmingly... but I don't see mention of it bobbing to the surface here.

Q: Could this entire undertaking with these present U.S. venture
capitalists have been a set-up job all along -- *intended* to embroil and
sink Rossi from the start: with the ultimate goal of sinking the entire
LENR field if possible; but specifically aimed at doing its desired damage
through (at the very least) tying the E-Cat up in the U.S. courts for
years... and thus sidelining and ruining the legitimately-aggrieved parties
(Rossi & Co.)..?

Who would have an interest in doing just that..?

Re: [Vo]:Rossi/E-Cat lawsuit: A long-in-the-making set-up job..?

[Che]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Thomas Darden shall not avoid the requirements of the Licence Agreement
> and pay Rossi what is agreed upon. The positive ERV is the ONLY requirement
> for payment defined in the LA. Even the Pope must follow the law. Being
> a sainted person does not give that person the right to ignore
> a legally binding agreement.
>


Why the blazes is this troll here defending a vulture capitalist outfit
which is welching on a contract which has quite apparently NOT been voided
on the Rossi side..? I read the entire legal complaint. This *all* hinges
on the outcome of the long-term validation process. My understanding is
that this *was* a success.

Who's lying here... and why?

Re: [Vo]:Rossi/E-Cat lawsuit: A long-in-the-making set-up job..?

[Che]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> How does "and pay Rossi what is agreed upon." mean  "this troll here
> defending a vulture capitalist outfit ". Something is wrong with my writing
> or your reading.
>

No, something is wrong with _your_ reading. My use of the word 'blazes'
should have clued you in as to the context of who I was referring-to.

Don't be so defensive.





On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 12:41 AM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas Darden shall not avoid the requirements of the Licence Agreement
>>> and pay Rossi what is agreed upon. The positive ERV is the ONLY requirement
>>> for payment defined in the LA. Even the Pope must follow the law. Being
>>> a sainted person does not give that person the right to ignore
>>> a legally binding agreement.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Why the blazes is this troll here defending a vulture capitalist outfit
>> which is welching on a contract which has quite apparently NOT been voided
>> on the Rossi side..? I read the entire legal complaint. This *all* hinges
>> on the outcome of the long-term validation process. My understanding is
>> that this *was* a success.
>>
>> Who's lying here... and why?
>>
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:LIVE ON YOUTUBE: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project: *GlowStick* 5.3 - Ready to power climb

[Che]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfAJv-jhCY8&feature=em-lbcastemail-np

Re: [Vo]:Photos from yesterday's earthquake in Kumamoto

[Che]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> See:
>
> http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/feature/photo/etc/glist.html?gr=CO0202110
>
> You can Google translate the captions.
>
> Magnitude 7. I think ~6 people died (accounts vary). It is surprising how
> few people are killed by these things.
>
> - Jed
>
>
That's only because of modern building codes and superior modern materials.

Re: [Vo]:Saudi Arabia to Diversify

[Che]

Too little, too late. This particular dysfunctional client-state is
essentially finished. When this 'monarchy' falls is only a matter of time.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> “In January, the Kingdom formally launched a new information,
> communication and technology fund worth $133 million in an attempt to
> pioneer new ventures. So given it is looking at new ideas, but has a long
> historical connection with energy it would be no surprise to see the Saudis
> looking for new energy industrial joint ventures.
>
>
>
> A potential avenue that could be explored is that of Low Energy Nuclear
> Reactions or Lattice Enabled Nanoscale Reactions (LENR). This is a
> chemical/physical event where anomalous amounts of heat are generated when
> certain metals absorb hydrogen or deuterium and an external stimulus such
> as an electric current is directly applied.
>
>
>
> A potential partner for KSA to partner with is Industrial Heat LLC that
> was incorporated in 2012 and is based in Raleigh, North Carolina. This firm
> has already been granted the license to sell and manufacture energy
> catalysers “E-Cats” in Saudi Arabia. Therefore, I do not think it
> unreasonable to envisage the Saudis looking for partners to help start
> laying the groundwork for commercialisation of LENR within the Kingdom and
> for export overseas.”
>
>
>
>
> https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/saudi-arabia-prepares-to-break-oil-wealth-dependency-7386201
> 
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Photos from yesterday's earthquake in Kumamoto

[Che]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Che  wrote:
>
>
>> That's only because of modern building codes and superior modern
>> materials.
>>
>
> Yes, that is what I have heard. In recent years they have been
> retrofitting many buildings in Japan with improved earthquake resistance,
> installing gigantic steel "X" structures. Especially in schools.
>
> The photos at the Yomiuri show many collapsed older buildings. I am
> surprised only a handful of people were killed in them.
>
> - Jed
>

Ya, they also have active, computer-controlled counter-weight systems to
retrofit on probably any sway-prone highrises, etc.

Re: [Vo]:Comparison of energy inputs to Earth climate

[Che]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:10 PM, H LV  wrote:

> In defence of AGW, this link argues that heat fluctuations from within
> the Earth are far too small to contribute to global warming.
>
> http://www.skepticalscience.com/heatflow.html
>
> The interesting thing is that according to fig. 4 energy produced by
> fossil and nuclear sources is already 1/3 of the energy flow from
> within the Earth. If LENR can really replace all other energy sources
> and if the demand for energy grows a hundred times then the "holy
> grail of energy" could bring about a global heat pollution problem.
>
> Harry
>
>
In an advanced and rational Human society, any 'waste heat' issues
threatening the Planet WILL be systematically addressed.

Thank you for raising the alarm.

[Vo]:Scientists make "Impossible Material" ... by accident

[Che]

Is there a potential for loading hydrogen/D/T in materials such as these..?


Scientists make "Impossible Material" ... by accident:
http://www.gizmag.com/upsalite-impossible-material/28393/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget

Re: [Vo]:LENR Info, two short answers from Andrea Rossi

[Che]

'*Believing atomic fusion can only be accomplished inside the likes of
billion-dollar tomamak reactors, is like thinking that the only way to make
houses is to shoot bricks with a cannon.*'

Paraphrase of a great quote.




On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
> just published
>
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/04/apr-21-2016-two-short-answers-from.html
>
> more coming...
>
> Yours,
> Peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR Info, two short answers from Andrea Rossi

[Che]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> gracias, whom does it belong?
> peter
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Che  wrote:
>
>> '*Believing atomic fusion can only be accomplished inside the likes of
>> billion-dollar tomamak reactors, is like thinking that the only way to make
>> houses is to shoot bricks with a cannon.*'
>>
>> Paraphrase of a great quote.
>>
>

The idea to whoever had it. This LENR adaptation is a no-brainer addition.
Let it 'belong' to Vortex-L.

Re: [Vo]:Titanium/Hematite combined catalyst for low temperature

[Che]

Isn't this the form of titanium compound used in the printing industry, to
make all those glossy brochures and catalogs..?




On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Titanium is an excellent proton conductor which was used as an active
> metal host early in the history of LENR and has recently turned up in
> reports of overunity from Russia/Ukraine. Iron-oxide, as hematite, has
> famously appeared (as Shell 105) as Holmlid’s preferred catalyst for
> hydrogen densification.
>
> The reason for this post is to propose an alternative to the Mills
> redundancy mechanism - suggesting that titanium, combined with Holmlid’s
> catalyst - could be a very efficient route to UDH in low temperature
> experiments (not the glow tube, or the laser experiments per se). Mills
> and Holmlid are closer, theoretically, than you might imagine and Mills
> landmark patent is set to expire in 10 months.
>
> Yet, the CQM entry for titanium shows it as becoming activated after
> losing 5 valence electrons to open a catalytic hole at a whopping 190 eV. This
> is not feasible without a plasma – or so it would seem. Yet, Prof. John Dash
> stated (20 years ago) that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium
> in his cold experiments ! Izumida in 1990 published on Ti in the
> prestigious “Fusion Technology” and Kopecek and Dash saw “Excess heat and
> unexpected elements from electrolysis of heavy water with titanium
> cathodes” in 1996 and Bashkirov and  Lipson, from Russia reported the
> same. Therefore, titanium LENR is not new, is active at low temperature,
> and success was seen in condensed matter (solid-phase) … if we assume
> that hydrogen must be absorbed into the cathode as a hydride.
>
> Since TiH2 is also an efficient way to get hydrogen into an experiment
> without plumbing – there is a simplicity advantage to using it, especially
> combined with other catalysts for faster “densification”. Mills generally
> chooses 3-6 different catalysts working together.
>
> Titanium hydride has become a low-priced commodity material, at least from 
> China
> (Alibaba). A kilogram of TiH2 can be had for about the price of a beer at
> a Giants game – and you get the metal loaded with hydrogen, fully
> embrittled, so to speak. And when some of the hydrogen is released from
> the hydride, a natural porosity is left.
>
> Back to the CQM theory. The catalytic hole at 190 eV is next to
> impossible to achieve without a plasma, even as a transient state in the
> hottest glow tube, so it would seem that Mills’ theory is irrelevant…
> but, hold on … let’s consider a special type of multibody reaction that
> would only work at moderate temperature. Turns out that titanium has a
> first ionization potential at 6.8 eV which is a quarter of the Rydberg
> (Hartree) energy, and is the only transition metal to have such a value, 
> meaning
> that on paper, four titanium atoms operating together would express an 
> alternative
> to the Mills catalytic “hole.” Multibody reactions would be unlikely in
> gas or plasma phase, or at high temperature but in a FCC crystal
> structure with 14 atoms of Ti, we have a stable solid phase structure
> where it should be possible (on a regular basis - thousands of times per
> second) to have 4 electrons temporarily displaced - enough to create the
> required catalytic window- not as Mills suggests, but in an effective
> alternative so long as the hydrogen can be retained in the matrix (requiring
> low temperature). This multibody route can explain the comment of Dash
> that titanium is more active than palladium for gain.
>
> A 5-body reaction in the solid phase of a crystal should not be written
> off as improbable, even if a 3 body reaction in the gas phase is admittedly
> improbable. AFAIK - Mills has never mentioned a route which depends on 4
> catalyst atoms each loosing 6.8 eV to arrive at the necessary 27.2 eV hole.
> Nevertheless, I think this could be viable as a route for first stage
> redundancy, happening at low temperature and would augment other
> catalysts which work at deeper levels of redundancy, particularly
> hematite.
>
> The downside is that as a practical matter, such a low temperature device
> would only makes sense if it operates to produce UDH as a fuel which
> would be extracted and used elsewhere, with or without a laser.
>
> The largest problem involves the chemistry of iron oxide, with which the
> TiH would optimize and the fact that it is reactive even as an oxide. The
> combination of any active metal with iron oxide brings up so-called “thermite
> reaction.” This could happen with titanium instead of aluminum, but the
> trigger temperature would be greater and the chemical reaction would seem
> to be insignificant if the reactor is keep relatively cool.
>
> In short – the features of using titanium hydride with hematite for more
> efficient densification, seem to favor using low power input to
> “manufacture” UDH in the first of a two-step process. The proof is in the

Re: [Vo]:Cheap Solar Power (harvard.edu)

[Che]

> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:
>>
>>> Fortunately, looks like LENR may not be needed to rescue the planet
>>>
>>> http://www.keith.seas.harvard.edu/blog-1/cheapsolarpower
>>>
>>
>> Indeed.  If solar power will help humanity to squeak by, and LENR will
allow it to build out all kinds of military capabilities, solar power may
end up saving humanity where LENR would doom it.
>>
>> Eric

* Dealing with an out-of-[democratic-]control Military-Police apparatus is
essentially a _political_ issue: generally only solved by class violence of
some degree.

* Cold Fusion OTOH is a _technological_ issue: with a political-economic
social nature necessarily attached to it, after the fact.

* These two issues do NOT easily conflate. Not in this (too-usual,
unfortunately) way.


And IMO it is one of the great failings of this and other fora that such a
basic understanding of fundamental societal relations is almost invariably
and essentially tossed aside -- in favor of the usual simplistic
understanding of how non-technological social issues actually operate.
(i.e. 'technology will save/doom us!!', yadda...) Technology, per se, *is
essentially NEUTRAL*.

Re: [Vo]:LERNR and Evil, some info

[Che]

Gluck is clearly not qualified to comment on 'communism' -- or probably
anything else political, for that matter.

I suggest he stick closely to scientific matter, only.





On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/06/june-22-2016-comment-re-lenr-and-evil.html
>
> it is more here than it seems at the first sight
>
>
> peter
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:LERNR and Evil, some info

[Che]

OT for vortex-l, but a short reply (since an off-hand slagging of
'communism' was prominent in a LENR article):

No good marxist need learn any lessons from poor old East Europeans about
'communism'. We know from long, personal experience with you all, that 99%
of you are clueless about it. All you people really have is your lived
experience of 'Actually-Existing Socialism' -- i.e. stalinism -- and the
willingness of westerners to use you for the propaganda value in having
hated it (just to throw you away, after, when your services are no longer
required...)

All of which is pretty useless for the most part, for the World
working-class. And completely and utterly wrong, need I add.

So like I said: stick to LENR science. You're no good at the politics
thing. Leave it to us pros.




On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 4:52 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> Dear Che,
>
> what do you want to know about Communism?
> my experience with it is from 1948 to 1989 Romanian style.
> Feel free to ask anything
> Peter
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Che  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Gluck is clearly not qualified to comment on 'communism' -- or probably
>>> anything else political, for that matter.
>>>
>>
>> Well, he did live under communism for a long time, so he can draw no
>> personal experience.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:LERNR and Evil, some info

[Che]

WTF do you know about anything, eh? Typical knee-jerk crap from people who
in fact believe some corporation are going to shower their little LENR
projects with oodles of cash at some point, and make them filthy rich.. So
of course they support this bastard social-economic order, however bad it
is for everyone else.

C'mon admit it. That's the true end-goal, for many of you here. Worked for
Rossi and the others, huh?




On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Che
> How did you become a pro?
> Reading a book?
> That goes a long way, but in the end it is like in science the experience
> of physical experiment is what counts.
> Then you will find there are many opinions and in my book they are all ok.
> Seldom are we 100% right.
> On Jun 24, 2016 21:30, "Che"  wrote:
>
>> OT for vortex-l, but a short reply (since an off-hand slagging of
>> 'communism' was prominent in a LENR article):
>>
>> No good marxist need learn any lessons from poor old East Europeans about
>> 'communism'. We know from long, personal experience with you all, that 99%
>> of you are clueless about it. All you people really have is your lived
>> experience of 'Actually-Existing Socialism' -- i.e. stalinism -- and the
>> willingness of westerners to use you for the propaganda value in having
>> hated it (just to throw you away, after, when your services are no longer
>> required...)
>>
>> All of which is pretty useless for the most part, for the World
>> working-class. And completely and utterly wrong, need I add.
>>
>> So like I said: stick to LENR science. You're no good at the politics
>> thing. Leave it to us pros.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 4:52 AM, Peter Gluck 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Che,
>>>
>>> what do you want to know about Communism?
>>> my experience with it is from 1948 to 1989 Romanian style.
>>> Feel free to ask anything
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Che  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Gluck is clearly not qualified to comment on 'communism' -- or
>>>>> probably anything else political, for that matter.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, he did live under communism for a long time, so he can draw no
>>>> personal experience.
>>>>
>>>> - Jed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>>> Cluj, Romania
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:IH USES MEMES IN THE WAR WITH LEONARDO CORP.

[Che]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/06/june-28-2016-war-of-memes-in-lenr-land.html
>
> Not all memes succeed, not all survive, or prosper.
> Think about "Cold Fusion" it is meme but not happy. Is LENR a meme? That
> war of memes is an obstacle to its memefication-technologization
> Better stop the war and let's justice BE!
> Peter
>


Why are you appealing to the morality of the parties involved, when clearly
only the material interests of those concerned *will* be decided, one way
or another, in this 'Cold War over Cold Fusion'..?

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:[Vo]: Dallas Police’s ‘Bomb Robot’

[Che]

You need to worry about the government.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 6:10 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:
>
> What parts?  small electric motors and batteries?  RC is a do it yourself
>> operation now, or just take parts from toys.
>>
>
> Good question. Not sure. Perhaps serial numbers on the types of RC parts
> that go into toys.  Clearly having traceable serial numbers will only be
> useful in finding the perpetrators if the drone goes down and is recovered.
>
> It's an interesting thought experiment -- what will governments do in a
> pinch if the number of assassinations goes up?
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:the day of Reckoning comes for LENR

[Che]

On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/07/jul-16-2016-coming-day-of-reckoning-for.html
>
> we all have to seriously re-think our ideas and attitude in/toward  LENR
>

There is either a Cold Fusion nuclear reaction going on here, or there
isn't. This phenomenon is either an objective fact of Nature -- or it is
mere subjective Human foolishness.

So if this *is* an objective phenomenon, then our personal/political
attitudes toward it are essentially irrelevant -- no matter the obstacles
placed in the path of 'LENR' research, necessary or otherwise.

Re: [Vo]:LENR- Doors to open/close to what?

[Che]

More preposterous theorizing, from people who simply assume that the
Present recedes indefinitely into the Future...

You can kvetch and whine all you want about your miserable personal
stalinist experiences, Gluck -- and continue to conflate them with a
mythical 'Communism' which only further confuses your
equally-politically-inexperienced, mostly U.S. readership; but I'm
asserting one more time here that you simply do NOT know what you are
whinging on about -- regardless of your own personal history. So stick to
Cold Fusion -- and leave politics to more objectively-minded people.

Even tho' everyone here should definitely 'smarten up' about the politics
surrounding revolutionary new Tek like Cold Fusion -- and how the
'corporate' road *is* very much the wrong road to be going down. Whatever
the immediate payoffs (don't you all wish).



On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/07/jul-29-2016-lenr-which-doors-to-open-to.html
>
>
> A global, vital, geopolitical problem reflected in LENR too.
> Decision taking...
>
> peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:It Just Works - Simple engineering scale up for PdD wet cold fusion

[Che]

There is clearly more than one way to skin this 'LENR' fish (not unlike how
for instance, cancer is not just one single biological pathology -- but in
fact many 'variations-on-a-theme').


As an aside (possibly a potentially very useful one): since this variation
of 'LENR' is 'cold and wet'... why not someday soon create a symbolic
'logo' for it, based on that classic meme of the 'cold, wet' nose of a
bloodhound..?
:)

It might catch the attention of masses of people, given the right
circumstances..!
;)





On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> It is bothersome how so many in the LENR field offer nothing but disdain
> for PdD wet cells. It seems to me that MP’s boiling cell might be readily
> engineered to become a useful commercial product. (Mitch Swartz’s Nanor’s
> might work as well.) Take for example it the cell nominally occupies 2cc of
> volume in a massive array. Each piece of Pd in a common pool of D2O held
> under very high pressure and thus higher temperature would contribute to
> the sum of heat produced at say 10 watts per unit. Gather 100,000 unit
> cells together and the system would produce a million watts. Share the
> electrical power amongst the units via a duty cycle allowing a tiny
> fraction of the power to be required to keep them fusing and the OU output
> ratio, COP, would be spectacular.
>
>
>
> In my work producing prodigious heat and helium using transient asymmetric
> cavitation fusion (TACF) where observed outputs of hundreds of watts was
> routinely achieved a similar massive array would easily perform in the same
> way in a highly pressurized reactor vessel to allow higher temperature
> operation. Nice thing about my TACF, (pronounced tac-f) is titanium was a
> superb metal, better than palladium, not nearly so good as silver but
> silver’s fusion reactivity is so high that it is nigh unto impossible to
> keep it intact as it melts almost instantly (in room temp D2)) when loaded
> with D2 and activated.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR- Doors to open/close to what?

[Che]

On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 12:42 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> Che,
>
> I have sent you in North Korea for re-education and it seems you are back
> too early.How could you manage to go through the border?
> Or the comrades hve found you are not worth to be converted in a New Man?
> Than sorry for you!
> peter
>

It is a shame that your stalinist experiences -- especially the more
bizarre ones you suffered under Ceausescu -- have warped your mind about
many things.

Redeem yourself: stick to Cold Fusion. (And stop rambling so much on your
blog.)



(P.S.: just because I use the name 'Che', doesn't make me what you assume
me to be. For that matter: I wonder how many Romanians are sick of the
failed experiment of 'Capitalist freedom' in their country now...)

Re: [Vo]:LENR- Doors to open/close to what?

[Che]

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> Dear Che,
>
> Very probably e both have a simplified opinion/impression of each other.
> Have you read for example:
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2011/02/sue-ellen-principle-and-kaltwasser.html
>  ?
>
> You have tarted with aggressive attacks and insinuations, I was very angry
> for your POV re real socialism/communism, you have not demonstrated real
> knowledge, now globalism is the new destructive form of idealism.
> I am ready to discuss with you sine ira et studio bout these problems.
> In private.
> Try to be rational nd unprejudiced and have empathy and deep understanding
> for the experience of hundreds of millions  captive and oppressed in
> Stalinism (again a simplified concept)
>
> Peter
>

Imperialist propagandists just love what your type dishes out, Gluck -- but
the rest of the Planet worries instead about the LONG, long history of
Capitalist enslavement, OK..? Only middle-class types in the NATO West and
their masters obsess about us 'stealing' 'their' property.

Speaking of leaving 'egos out' of matters... just stick to Cold Fusion.
However, every time I happen to see you slandering the long history of
working-class struggle against Capitalist exploitation -- I *will* say
something.






>
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:53 AM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 12:42 AM, Peter Gluck 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Che,
>>>
>>> I have sent you in North Korea for re-education and it seems you are
>>> back too early.How could you manage to go through the border?
>>> Or the comrades hve found you are not worth to be converted in a New Man?
>>> Than sorry for you!
>>> peter
>>>
>>
>> It is a shame that your stalinist experiences -- especially the more
>> bizarre ones you suffered under Ceausescu -- have warped your mind about
>> many things.
>>
>> Redeem yourself: stick to Cold Fusion. (And stop rambling so much on your
>> blog.)
>>
>>
>>
>> (P.S.: just because I use the name 'Che', doesn't make me what you assume
>> me to be. For that matter: I wonder how many Romanians are sick of the
>> failed experiment of 'Capitalist freedom' in their country now...)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:war news in full development

[Che]

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> I might add: It is damned craven of you to erase my messages. Despite your
> provocations and baseless accusations, I have remained civil with you, and
> in this instance I have provided only facts. Facts grounded in conventional
> engineering. By denying this, and by erasing messages, you have disgraced
> yourself and shown that you are no scientist or engineer any more. Perhaps
> you were once, and you may be again, but you are so obsessed with Rossi,
> and so unwilling to face reality, you have abandoned all objective
> standards.
>
> - Jed
>


It is sad to see all the confusion, despair, conniving, backstabbing and
contention caused essentially by the hubris and base egotism of the likes
of LENR 'heroes' Andrea Rossi. Let's hope instead that the collaborative --
and OPEN -- likes of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project, however slow
and plodding, show us the best way and foot forward for a TRUE science of
Cold Fusion.

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

[Che]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:20 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Your earlier defense was that Murray was an expert.  Also, that I wasn't
> there.  You weren't there either and are just relying on hear say.
> What other "experts" were on the case?  Murray was the one who wrote Dr.
> Penon.
>


Whatever any experts decide about the facts of the matter here, Andrea
Rossi remains the sort of problematic 'inventor'/entrepreneur type who
apparently creates more heat than light, wherever they go and whatever they
do.







>
> On 8/7/2016 11:56 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
> It appears Murray's expertise is in electronics, although Jed claims he is
>> an expert on stains...
>>
>
> Oh give me a break. I never said anything like that. Do you think Murray
> is the only person assigned to this? If you had a billion dollars, and
> someone was threatening you with a $267 million lawsuit, would you hire one
> and only one person to do every aspect of the technical analysis? Or would
> you go to and find people who are experts in stains and other aspects of
> the problem?
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

[Che]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:42 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> What will you say if Rossi has a commercial 1 MW plant up and running
> before the trial?


How many years go by with a lack of even definitive 'proof-of-concept' --
let alone the World being presented with a 'wiz-bang' working prototype --
from these social sorts? I truly want to believe in Rossi & Co... but we
keep being systematically disappointed. Year after year after year. After
decade.

How much of this pathology could be FUD and sabotage, really..?

We're STILL waiting for Orbo to prove itself in some spectacular,
definitive way, for that matter. So they have a cellphone charger... now.
Finally. But what is that. Really. What _is_ it..?






>
>
>
> On 8/7/2016 12:38 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/07/2016 12:03 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  I suspect Rossi is hoping to pin the blame on Penon and send him to
>>> jail, instead of going himself.
>>>
>>
>> Not sure I can agree with that.
>>
>> I've long since stopped believing people like Rossi (or Trump) have a
>> coherent exit strategy -- their slogan seems to be "if you're challenged,
>> double down; brazen it out.  Apologies are for wimps." Or, as Tom Petty put
>> it, "I Won't Back Down!"
>>
>>
>>
>>>  - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:first (Sun)day of total LENR war

[Che]

So instead of people doing science, or following it -- we're all instead
completely and endlessly distracted by the 'legal violence' of the
proprietary Capitalist order.

Someone is indeed profiting -- handsomely -- from this state of affairs.




On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-7-2016-lenr.html
>
> a lot to read but not to be happy
>
> peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

[Vo]:Cold Fusion Fire-ing Squad

[Che]

I understand why this list is utterly obsessed with Rossi: fraud or not, he
has discredited cold fusion research all the more spectacularly than anyone
else. However, what I _don't_ understand is: why is there so much about
Andrea Rossi here -- and precious little about e.g. the Martin Fleischmann
Memorial Project..??

Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion Fire-ing Squad

[Che]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Open source tech cannot garner the capital and R&D power to pose a product
> and capability replacement threat to the anti Rossi FUD interests that
> Rossi can. Be assured, the LENR wars have just begun.
>


That's the Neoliberal, 'entrepreneurial' cant -- but I don't believe it,
and no one else should, either. It's just propaganda to keep asserting
that, simply because it is the path of least resistance under the present
circumstances, etc., yadda.

People here should be primarily interested in the *SCIENCE*, no? -- and
secondarily in the politics and financing (which of course *affect* the
ability to DO the science... as we all should understand quite well by now).





>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>> I understand why this list is utterly obsessed with Rossi: fraud or not,
>> he has discredited cold fusion research all the more spectacularly than
>> anyone else. However, what I _don't_ understand is: why is there so much
>> about Andrea Rossi here -- and precious little about e.g. the Martin
>> Fleischmann Memorial Project..??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion Fire-ing Squad

[Che]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> In this time of massive FUD production, it is near impossible to discover
> how the world really works. What is your explanation of current affairs?
>

I'm an experienced marxist. Most of it is _dead simple_ for me to
understand, actually. The problem OTOH, is that the middle-class types who
dominate the media (including the Internet. Including here) are NOT
generally interested in inconvenient facts. Up to now, anyway...

However, 'dead simple' doesn't mean that people don't have somewhat of a
steep learning curve ahead of them on that... just like the science, here.
I'm not going to be explaining or convincing you of anything, in 1 or 2 or
3 or a dozen emails, most likely.








> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> Open source tech cannot garner the capital and R&D power to pose a
>>> product and capability replacement threat to the anti Rossi FUD interests
>>> that Rossi can. Be assured, the LENR wars have just begun.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's the Neoliberal, 'entrepreneurial' cant -- but I don't believe it,
>> and no one else should, either. It's just propaganda to keep asserting
>> that, simply because it is the path of least resistance under the present
>> circumstances, etc., yadda.
>>
>> People here should be primarily interested in the *SCIENCE*, no? -- and
>> secondarily in the politics and financing (which of course *affect* the
>> ability to DO the science... as we all should understand quite well by now).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Che  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I understand why this list is utterly obsessed with Rossi: fraud or
>>>> not, he has discredited cold fusion research all the more spectacularly
>>>> than anyone else. However, what I _don't_ understand is: why is there so
>>>> much about Andrea Rossi here -- and precious little about e.g. the Martin
>>>> Fleischmann Memorial Project..??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

[Che]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:47 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Rossi doesn't sound too worried
>

Since there doesn't seem to be the long-expected constant gush of hot steam
in the works here, Rossi appears to be somewhat delusional. His ego appears
legendary.

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

[Che]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence 
wrote:

>
> On 08/08/2016 07:43 AM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
...


> Missed this the first time around.
>
> Peter, you've been spouting boring, sanctimonious, barely coherent
> nonsense for weeks now, and you've descended to the point to accusing Jed
> of lying, all to preserve your twisted fantasy that Rossi is the Next Big
> Thing and not just a worthless con man.
>
> You're going in the bozo bin.
>

If Vortex-L is simply turning into the Andrea Rossi Show, I hope many
people here will spend more time following the boring MFMP instead.

Re: [Vo]:LENR- beware of hypocrisy and idealism!

[Che]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-08-2016-lenr-
> beware-of-hypocrisy.html
>
> the Rossi-IH war is on the blogosphere- multiple fronts!
>
> peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>


Calm down. Take your meds.

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

[Che]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence  wrote:

>
>
> The group got Rossi'd a couple years back and we're still gradually
> digging out from under.
>
> Ditto the entire LENR world, I'm afraid.
>

I think the issue still remains: *did* Rossi turn Nickel into copper -- and
produce excess energy -- *at all*. Or not.

The 'con' part is the _least_ part, AFAIC. Maybe his ambition made him
stoopid. What is the REAL physics going on here, regardless..??

Re: [Vo]:Reality check of the day

[Che]

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> Plus, in LENR we have a field where there have been successes in prior
> experiments going back 27 years, using similar parameters in metal
> hydrides, and it is very likely that from time to time, Rossi actually saw 
> true
> energy gain but could not reproduce this gain on demand.
>
> He probably believed, and there is adequate basis for it in other fields,
> that he could overcome the past reliability problem by going to a larger
> form factor. He will probably go to his grave believing that he solved
> the problems of LENR and that his work was honest, misunderstood, and
> scientifically important.
>
>
The most balanced, reasonable and succinct explanation I've read here yet.

Re: [Vo]:Reality check of the day

[Che]

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> David L. Babcock  wrote:
>
>> Another simple explanation is that Rossi'S recipe died. He had enough
>> (sporadic?) heat events to drive him into a frenzy of invention, into a
>> dead end. And an ego that didn't permit him to back down. Sort of like
>> Trump...
>>
> Sorta like many lone inventors, especially Jim Patterson. I heard he could
> not make a new batch of beads work. He denied that. He told me "I can make
> a new batch anytime" but I do not think he did.
>
> I have heard that Rossi makes machine after machine, cannibalizing old
> parts and leaving no blueprints or older machines. So he may have lost the
> secret. I would not rule that out.
>
> - Jed
>
>
This model of the lone, secretive inventor -- hoping to make millions and
gain his place in history -- HAS been (thankfully) superseded by the
'Free-And-Open-Source [Software]' (FOSS) model: in the computer world, as
elsewhere.

I suggest people note this evolution and take it seriously from now on.

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

[Che]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Craig Haynie 
wrote:

>
> >>>The word "faithful" has no place in science or engineering.
> >>>
> >>>- Jed
>
>
> Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe.
>
> Craig
>
>
Having faith in things which can be proven to be true or not true -- i.e.
Science --  is not at all the same thing as having blind faith.

That is religious.

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

[Che]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

>
>
> The word "faith" has several definitions. It means different things.
>

The #1 reason why people argue futilely (in good 'faith'; deception is
irrelevant here) -- anywhere, for any reason -- is because at least one of
them does not understand the actual context of the terminology used in the
argument.

Simple as that.

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

[Che]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Craig Haynie 
wrote:

> On 08/11/2016 05:47 PM, Che wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Craig Haynie 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
> Having faith in things which can be proven to be true or not true -- i.e.
> Science --  is not at all the same thing as having blind faith.
>
> That is religious.
>
>
> But this is the point: You can't prove that we live in an Objective
> Universe. You can't prove that you're not in some computer simulation, and
> that the people around you are real. You can't prove your axioms. That's
> why they're axioms. We take it on faith that what appears to be an
> objective Universe, with rules which are the same for everyone, is true.
>
> Craig
>
>
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs. Your metaphysical claims
demand more than intellectual wankerism.

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

[Che]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Craig Haynie 
wrote:

>
>
> On 08/11/2016 06:21 PM, Che wrote:
>
>
>
> But this is the point: You can't prove that we live in an Objective
>> Universe. You can't prove that you're not in some computer simulation, and
>> that the people around you are real. You can't prove your axioms. That's
>> why they're axioms. We take it on faith that what appears to be an
>> objective Universe, with rules which are the same for everyone, is true.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
> Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs. Your metaphysical claims
> demand more than intellectual wankerism.
>
>
> I'm not making an extraordinary claim. You are! You're claiming we live in
> an objective Universe; a claim you can't prove.
>
> Axioms can't be proven either way. This is why they are axioms. Otherwise,
> they would be deductions from other axioms.
>
> Craig
>

Medieval Schoolman logic in response to Science marks its return...

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

[Che]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Giovanni Santostasi <
> gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What I don't understand is why there are not ongoing criminal
>> investigations for Rossi, Fabian and Penon, the fraudulent gang, instead of
>> only civil law implications.
>>
>
> This is something I've been wondering myself.  I would not be surprised if
> there is an FBI investigation under way, and they're still looking into the
> situation.  I think they like to keep things under wraps for as long as
> possible.
>
> I'm having trouble tracking down the amount of money involved, but I got
> the impression somewhere that there was less money involved when the FBI
> raided Inteligentry.
>
> Eric
>


A trending Rossi 'perp walk' video -- and accompanying sensational story --
will do wonders for LENR.

Re: [Vo]: Where did the heat go?

[Che]

Why would the heat be stored? In especially such a way?



On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> I saw the picture of the inside of the customer's facility with its big
> black box.  It caused me to consider the possibility that the heat was
> stored.  Imagine an immense store of water as big as the entire black box.
> If Rossi produced 1 MW of heat continuously, what would the numbers look
> like?.
>
> OK, with 1MW of heat, that would be 8.64E10 joules/day and over the course
> of the 350 day test, that would be a total of 3E13 joules.  If the room was
> filled with water that began at 25C and was heated to 60C over the course
> of a year, with good insulation and no heat leakage, that would be 35C of
> heating and would require 1.47E5 joules/liter.  To absorb all of that heat,
> would take a total of 2.1E8 liters of water or 7.2E6 ft^3.  So how big was
> the black box?  Visually I would guess it was it was 100' x 50' x 8' which
> is a volume of 4E4 ft^3.  This is more than 2 orders of magnitude smaller
> volume than would have been required to store all of that heat in water up
> to 60C.  If this water in the black box were heated to 95C, it wouldn't
> change much of anything (only a factor of 2).
>
> Conclusion would have to be that there was change of state of some large
> mass of something to store the heat, or the heat was discharged to outside
> the building.
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR comment, pseudo-dialog, info

[Che]

Try to be more professional and detached, Gluck. Your partisanship does not
'become' you.



On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-11-2016-lenr-
> comment-pseudo-dialog.html
>
> all the best,
> Peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]: Where did the heat go?

[Che]

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 11:36 AM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Rossi never claimed the customer used all the heat in the process.  He
> said the balance was vented.
>

Excuse us? I'm not following all this close enough to understand from this
exchange: is this customer location *also* the location of the verification
experiment as well..?

If so -- how could *any* heat whatsoever just be 'allowed' to vent..??

Re: [Vo]:Neuglu confirmed

[Che]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Bob Cook  wrote:

>  How does your model handle conservation of angular momentum---the poor
> neglected parameter in many models focusing on energy conservation?
>
Angular momentum may be poor and neglected -- but it remains a fundamental
property of energy-matter.

Re: [Vo]:Do not burn the bridge to LENR technology!

[Che]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-17-2016-will-
> iccf20-be-not-more.html
>
>
> and will ICCF20 be a turning point showing there si no more turning
> back to LENR's seemingly insoluble problems?
>

'Cold Fusion' is either real physics -- or it isn't. The Truth _will_ out.

Re: [Vo]:The Type A palladium saga -- what Martin said . . .

[Che]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
> Every decade or so, I ask if anyone knows the secret to the Johnson
>> Matthey metals used by F&P.  I am told that JM knows; but, won't tell. . . .
>
>
Private property: the bane of a free, democratic and scarcity-free society.

Re: [Vo]:say NO to the LENR dystopias

[Che]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-19-2016-saying-
> no-to-lenr-dystopia.html
>
> please do not despair!
>

Relax. Support ONLY 'Free and Open Source' (FOSS/FOSH) research.

Re: [Vo]: Jed's flowmeter comments chanllenged.

[Che]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 7:40 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Firstly, there is no point in speculating until there is sufficient
> evidence.  What I object to on this blog is the tendency for doubters to
> use vitriolic ad hominems.
>

This whole Rossi saga has hijacked most-all fruitful Cold Fusion discussion.

Re: [Vo]:Light and matter merge in quantum coupling

[Che]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160822152626.htm
>
>
>
> “"This general subject is what's known as cavity quantum electrodynamics
> (QED)," Kono said. "In cavity QED, the cavity enhances the light so that
> matter in the cavity resonantly interacts with the vacuum field. What is
> unique about solid-state cavity QED is that the light typically interacts
> with this huge number of electrons, which behave like a single gigantic
> atom."”
>

Light and matter are essentially manifestations of the same energetic
motions (of whatever): so it's not surprising that, with the proper
geometries and harmonics, they can be effortlessly made to manifest each
other 'symbiotically', on-demand, in a lab. Sooner or later Humans were
going to find out how.

But who beat us to it..!?
:P

[Vo]:Article: Startups with novel chemistries tend to falter before they reach full production.

[Che]

Why We Still Don’t Have Better Batteries
Startups with novel chemistries tend to falter before they reach full
production.

by Richard Martin
August 29, 2016

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602245/why-we-still-dont-have-better-batteries/

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:OT: SpaceX’s Elon Musk announces vision for colonizing Mars

[Che]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 10:53 AM, H LV  wrote:

> I would think the international political and legal questions of such an
> endeavour are even more important than the question of who will pay.
>
> http://spaceflightnow.com/2016/09/27/spacexs-elon-musk-
> announces-vision-for-colonizing-mars/
>
> Harry
>


One more time: Capitalism has NO future in the Kosmos -- and Elon Musk is
not John Galt.

And you people shouldn't be looking to Big Business to fund your research.

Re: [Vo]:a short LENR blog issue

[Che]

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/10/oct-21-2016-lenr-
> with-help-from-ed.html
>
> peter
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>


And 'Il Gattopardo' was made into a great italian-realist movie (starring
Burt Lancaster) by a communist director.

Re: [Vo]:White house report on AI

[Che]

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:47 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> It could have been written more clearly with half the number of words.
> They seem to think that displaced workers can be retrained for better
> jobs, something that seems increasingly unlikely with current graduates
> dead last in the world in math and science.
>

I'm sure Peter Gluck will get all apoplectic over this, but it needs
pointing out that the apologists of the Capitalist order *lie*
(contextually, anyway), when they talk about workers being 're-trained',
after being replaced by automation. It is *well* understood -- and has been
for over 150 years -- that automation is the *main* means whereby
Capitalism replace Labor in the labor process. It is the *main* means by
which labor costs are reduced (there are other, more immediate, cruder
ways). This is, however, Capitalism's Achilles Heel: because Labor is in
fact the *source* of profit ('Surplus-Value', technically. Another lie is
that bourgeois 'Marginal Utility' theory, et al., is the real way profit is
realized).

When you automate people out of jobs, not only is there less money racing
around in the economy (empty pockets), but what you have actually done is
*increase the ratio of machine processes to Human processes in the
production cycle* (the 'organic composition of capital'). This will
actually cheapen the price of goods, because fewer inputs -- and less Human
labor -- are involved in the production cycle (economies-of-scale are
another aspect of this factor); however, since Labor *is* the source of
Surplus-Value -- and there is less of it per unit in increasingly automated
processes -- *the rate of profit per unit declines, as well*. This is an
'iron law' of capitalism which the capitalists will absolutely NEVER
overcome -- their lies and beliefs and pious wishes notwithstanding.

So our present teknologikal society really *is* heading into a dead-end
under Capitalism. Thus WWIII (because of the pressing need of various
cabals of capitalists being 'forced' to invade other groups' turf, in order
to steal resources and markets, to make up for the decline in the rate of
profit overall). Building out of the ruins of war also yields temporary
profits... but this next war will likely have far fewer survivors than the
last 3 (I consider the '7 Years' War' to be the actual first World war).

If you're honest (intellectually or otherwise), you can see that this is a
vicious circle with 'only one' ending -- assuming you have the usual
ideological tunnel-vision.





> In the section on LAWS - lethal autonomous weapons - they miss the point
> that an unscrupulous enemy like ISIS could develop or modify a Western
> development, to kill any human.  If they don't have to worry about moral
> values.
> I can imagine a small anomalous, lethal drone that could be made in large
> numbers and once LENR becomes available have an indefinite flight time.
> At least they are thinking about it.
>
> AA
>

Capitalism has no future -- other than death for all Humanity.






>
>
> Frank Znidarsic wrote:
>
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/
> whitehouse_files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/preparing_for_the_future_of_ai.pdf
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:White house report on AI

[Che]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> Che,
>
> DEspite your wish I will not become apoplectic.
> You have not understood what I say, re read my Kaltwasser doctrine.
>
> I have told the truth about Communism and have not been apologetic about
> Capitalism.
> BTW in my editorial of today you are cited.
>

You can't even distinguish stalinism from marxism. Not interested in your
opinion.

Re: [Vo]:White house report on AI

[Che]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:53 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Che,
> You have outlined the problems and while you maybe right if the political
> system doesn't change, there are possible solutions.  As I wrote last year:
>
> "History shows that when wealth inequality reaches a certain point,
> unless it is redistributed there will be a revolution.  There are
> examples of both ways: Rome failed to redistribute and the Western Roman
> Empire collapsed.   Athens managed to redistribute wealth and survived
> for a while.  Will Durant’s book *The Lessons of History* gives many
> examples.   Durant also points out that following redistribution of
> wealth the government must allow its reaccumulation by the few to ensure
> future progress.  The failure of Communism in Russia showed what happens
> if you ignore human nature and don’t allow that.
>
>  One possible way of avoiding the looming conflict is conversion to a
> welfare system like the Scandinavian countries employ.  It does seem to
> be successful for them and surveys show they are considered the best places
> to live.  At least it might be a good transitional route.
>
> The other possibility is a guaranteed Universal Basic Income (UBI), high
> enough to live on, given to every adult citizen in the country with no
> strings attached.  Many object to the thought of giving money to the idle.
> Free marketers have to face the obvious, which is that the modern American
> economy doesn’t provide enough income distribution to preserve civility in
> our society.  Some say it is only sharing society’s accumulated wealth.  I
> will leave the moral justification to others.  The main objective is to
> avoid a revolution that would cost a lot more than UBI both in blood and
> treasure. "
>
> AA
>

Will and Ariel Durant. lol. I outgrew that 'Readers' Digest' version of
History shite, decades ago.

Property owners always want to avoid a revolution, eh? But they don't mind
massacring the wogs.

There's only one solution to this crisis, eh? Yours is the typical
avoidance mechanism: attempting to put off the inevitable. Wholly
diversionary and pie-in-the-sky (what we're invariably accused of, in
defence). In any case: capitalist AI *will* continue to cast off jobs,
lower the rate of profit -- and the Crisis of Capitalism *will* continue
unabated: until we either all die in a nuclear holocaust, or overthrow it
for Socialism.

There Is No (Third Way) Alternative.




>
>
>
>
> On 10/23/2016 11:54 AM, Che wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:47 PM, a.ashfield 
> wrote:
>
>> It could have been written more clearly with half the number of words.
>> They seem to think that displaced workers can be retrained for better
>> jobs, something that seems increasingly unlikely with current graduates
>> dead last in the world in math and science.
>>
>
> I'm sure Peter Gluck will get all apoplectic over this, but it needs
> pointing out that the apologists of the Capitalist order *lie*
> (contextually, anyway), when they talk about workers being 're-trained',
> after being replaced by automation. It is *well* understood -- and has been
> for over 150 years -- that automation is the *main* means whereby
> Capitalism replace Labor in the labor process. It is the *main* means by
> which labor costs are reduced (there are other, more immediate, cruder
> ways). This is, however, Capitalism's Achilles Heel: because Labor is in
> fact the *source* of profit ('Surplus-Value', technically. Another lie is
> that bourgeois 'Marginal Utility' theory, et al., is the real way profit is
> realized).
>
> When you automate people out of jobs, not only is there less money racing
> around in the economy (empty pockets), but what you have actually done is
> *increase the ratio of machine processes to Human processes in the
> production cycle* (the 'organic composition of capital'). This will
> actually cheapen the price of goods, because fewer inputs -- and less Human
> labor -- are involved in the production cycle (economies-of-scale are
> another aspect of this factor); however, since Labor *is* the source of
> Surplus-Value -- and there is less of it per unit in increasingly automated
> processes -- *the rate of profit per unit declines, as well*. This is an
> 'iron law' of capitalism which the capitalists will absolutely NEVER
> overcome -- their lies and beliefs and pious wishes notwithstanding.
>
> So our present teknologikal society really *is* heading into a dead-end
> under Capitalism. Thus WWIII (because of the pressing need of various
> cabals of capitalists being 'forced' to invade other groups' turf, in order
> to steal resources and ma

Re: [Vo]:The return of the original "cold fusion" ??

[Che]

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I have been trying to get any replicator or cold fusion experiments to
> test for muon during the last six months. I have concentrated this best
> effort of persuasion on MFMP, but they are highly resistant to the idea. I
> do not understand why.
>

Lack of resources/personnel..?

Re: [Vo]:Article: Is dark energy a real thing?

[Che]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 12:37 AM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Does this mean that a few Nobel prizes were awarded a bit premature?  Are
> they ever recalled once proven in error?
>

All these scientists really deserve the Nobel Prize for Literature.

Because it's all fiction.

Re: [Vo]:White house report on AI

[Che]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:02 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Che,
>
>
> The Durants do not judge one system better than anther but report what
> happened.
>

Oh, that would be utterly, completely untrue.

But we do get a lot of such claims of impartiality from those who support
the status quo -- few of them actually true.

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

The problem remains the *capitalist* organization of society. NOT
automation.

No capitalists are EVER going to fix it. That's a job for Socialism.
Opinions to the contrary are worthless.





On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/technology/amazon-moves-to
> -cut-checkout-line-promoting-a-grab-and-go-experience.html
>
> Amazon Moves to Cut Checkout Line, Promoting a Grab-and-Go Experience
>
> The millions of jobs working the checkout lines are going to go away.
>
> http://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/cashiers.htm
>
> Upto 3.5 million jobs are on the cutting block payung about 20K a year.
> What will Trump do about this new automation threat?
>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Che,
> Venezuela,  Cuba!
> How about accepting bygones,  live today and plan for the future.
> Have a goal.
> Maybe moving to Venezuela could be yours?  Bring some food as they are
> starving. If you like the system , well then I suppose food is a minor
> problem.
>

Blah, blah blah I'll wait to see what you have to say when the looming
next stage of the World financial crisis loots your 'wealth'.




> Lennart
>
> On Dec 6, 2016 18:04, "Che"  wrote:
>
>
> The problem remains the *capitalist* organization of society. NOT
> automation.
>
> No capitalists are EVER going to fix it. That's a job for Socialism.
> Opinions to the contrary are worthless.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/technology/amazon-moves-to
>> -cut-checkout-line-promoting-a-grab-and-go-experience.html
>>
>> Amazon Moves to Cut Checkout Line, Promoting a Grab-and-Go Experience
>>
>> The millions of jobs working the checkout lines are going to go away.
>>
>> http://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/cashiers.htm
>>
>> Upto 3.5 million jobs are on the cutting block payung about 20K a year.
>> What will Trump do about this new automation threat?
>>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Che you  hit the wrong guy. The bureaucracy cannot take any thing from me
> except my pension. They try but . . .
> You believe in an idea almost 200 years old andays refuse to see that
> communism has failed since the 1850is  . That is doing the same thing over
> aND over again. . .. Move to Venezuela.
> Lennartout
>


Speak about things you actually understand.




>
> On Dec 6, 2016 18:32, "Che"  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Lennart Thornros 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Che,
>>> Venezuela,  Cuba!
>>> How about accepting bygones,  live today and plan for the future.
>>> Have a goal.
>>> Maybe moving to Venezuela could be yours?  Bring some food as they are
>>> starving. If you like the system , well then I suppose food is a minor
>>> problem.
>>>
>>
>> Blah, blah blah I'll wait to see what you have to say when the
>> looming next stage of the World financial crisis loots your 'wealth'.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Lennart
>>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2016 18:04, "Che"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem remains the *capitalist* organization of society. NOT
>>> automation.
>>>
>>> No capitalists are EVER going to fix it. That's a job for Socialism.
>>> Opinions to the contrary are worthless.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/technology/amazon-moves-to
>>>> -cut-checkout-line-promoting-a-grab-and-go-experience.html
>>>>
>>>> Amazon Moves to Cut Checkout Line, Promoting a Grab-and-Go Experience
>>>>
>>>> The millions of jobs working the checkout lines are going to go away.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/cashiers.htm
>>>>
>>>> Upto 3.5 million jobs are on the cutting block payung about 20K a year.
>>>> What will Trump do about this new automation threat?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> Che, you are barking on the wrong trees. I think it would be better to
> find a better tree. Like me :P
>


I don't even know what you getting at, fella. Stick to Cold Fusion, eh?
It's a subject we all share and know precious little about, here -- not
unlike the naive-yet-vociferous politix we have to witness on occasion.

However, when people here inevitably bring up the relationship of new
teknology to Human society, discussion invariably comes up against the very
real limits of capitalist organizational capabilities. I note this
limitation (a limitation based in ideology and propaganda and ignorance) --
and explain what can certainly be the ONLY possible solution to this
pressing issue.

Your nay-saying OTOH is simply pure hubristic, smug ignorance of all that.
In actual fact -- you're only aiding the oligarchs and their minions in
maintaining their control over Humanity. I thought Cold Fusion was about
setting Humanity free. Nothing free about the way Capitalism sits on our
collective sleeping chests, like some parasitic Succubus.







>
>
> 2016-12-07 1:23 GMT-02:00 Che :
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Lennart Thornros 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Che you  hit the wrong guy. The bureaucracy cannot take any thing from
>>> me except my pension. They try but . . .
>>> You believe in an idea almost 200 years old andays refuse to see that
>>> communism has failed since the 1850is  . That is doing the same thing over
>>> aND over again. . .. Move to Venezuela.
>>> Lennartout
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:daily LENR Info

[Che]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/12/dec-07-2016-lenr-info.html
>
> peter
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>


Still positing a capitalist solution to problems which can only be solved
by World socialism.

For that matter: Cold Fusion's perpetual funding issues are a DIRECT result
of the capitalist dis-allocation of the Planet's -- and Humanity's --
resources. (And smears against historical stalinist immiseration c/o
Imperialist encirclement are wholly beside the point.)

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> It's a waste of time to argue with those with petite bourgeois mentality,
> at least in Marxist terms, that's what I mean.
>

The immediate problem is that such social types usually intend to get the
last word... because there's an audience. So it's not really possible in
this totalitarian society to simply assert inconvenient truths about
Capitalism -- and posit the alternative -- without being attacked.

I wonder what that sounds like, eh..?





>
>
> 2016-12-07 16:12 GMT-02:00 Che :
>
>>
>> I don't even know what you getting at, fella.
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Che
> What else. do you know?
> I guarantee that I have seen more of communism than you.
> I guess what you meant was you have no argument.
> Lennart
>

What's it like to be a senile old fart, Lennart?





>
> On Dec 6, 2016 23:25, "Che"  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Lennart Thornros 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Che you  hit the wrong guy. The bureaucracy cannot take any thing from
>>> me except my pension. They try but . . .
>>> You believe in an idea almost 200 years old andays refuse to see that
>>> communism has failed since the 1850is  . That is doing the same thing over
>>> aND over again. . .. Move to Venezuela.
>>> Lennartout
>>>
>>
>>
>> Speak about things you actually understand.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2016 18:32, "Che"  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Lennart Thornros 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Che,
>>>>> Venezuela,  Cuba!
>>>>> How about accepting bygones,  live today and plan for the future.
>>>>> Have a goal.
>>>>> Maybe moving to Venezuela could be yours?  Bring some food as they are
>>>>> starving. If you like the system , well then I suppose food is a minor
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blah, blah blah I'll wait to see what you have to say when the
>>>> looming next stage of the World financial crisis loots your 'wealth'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Lennart
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 6, 2016 18:04, "Che"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem remains the *capitalist* organization of society. NOT
>>>>> automation.
>>>>>
>>>>> No capitalists are EVER going to fix it. That's a job for Socialism.
>>>>> Opinions to the contrary are worthless.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/technology/amazon-moves-to
>>>>>> -cut-checkout-line-promoting-a-grab-and-go-experience.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Amazon Moves to Cut Checkout Line, Promoting a Grab-and-Go Experience
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The millions of jobs working the checkout lines are going to go away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/cashiers.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Upto 3.5 million jobs are on the cutting block payung about 20K a
>>>>>> year. What will Trump do about this new automation threat?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Che]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> You will certain not prevail in this media. Let me tell you something. In
> my country, Brazil, evangelicals were suppressed or ridiculed by the
> catholic church and mainstream media. But, John Pope II made the grave
> mistake of alienating the popular movement of the church that helped bring
> down the military dictatorship. What happened is that evangelicals seized
> the opportunity to grab a lot Catholics, despite all contrary pressure from
> the media.
>
> The point is that you should get a distance  from middle class and target
> the poor. Forget the 1% complaints, focus on the lower 10% against the rest
> (that is obviously much more difficult in developed countries, since on
> these you have a much stronger "safety net"). Eventually, you will reach a
> larger base.
>


I have a life -- a political life -- outside of an interest in the likes of
Cold Fusion (I hate the cowardly 'LENR' euphemism -- however 'more
accurate' it is). Socialism is the real goal for Humanity -- whatever
petit-bourgeois boobs here opine.

The two intersect -- and always will. Whatever they believe. I've clearly
and logically stated as much.


I don't shy away from trouble. Ask the local deathsquad.









>
>
> 2016-12-07 20:58 GMT-02:00 Che :
>
>>
>>
>> The immediate problem is that such social types usually intend to get the
>> last word... because there's an audience. So it's not really possible in
>> this totalitarian society to simply assert inconvenient truths about
>> Capitalism -- and posit the alternative -- without being attacked.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:LENR as jigsaw puzzle and/or LEGO

[Che]

 In case anyone is forgetting: the mere existence of some 'free energy'
water heater would suffice, for these processes to finally be taken
seriously by most of society.

All the resources you needed would THEN simply become available.


Fuck the secretive, proprietary Rossi.





On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/12/dec-11-2016-lenr-
> lego-inspired-by-simon.html
>
> peter
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Article about Artificial Intelligence in NYT

[Che]

> There are an infinite number of steps between each level.
>

In the Universe of all material phenomena in general (i.e., so-called
'meta-physics' being pure Idealist wankerism), its development must
necessarily be open-ended and emergent. How could it be any other way.

So there will always be _further_ possible levels beyond any already
achieved. By any entity or collection of entities.

Re: [Vo]:Article about Artificial Intelligence in NYT

[Che]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Ron Wormus  wrote:

> Robins do this also. Nothing I have found can dissuade them from crashing
> their reflection. I had one persist for over two weeks.



While robins do cooperate while food-gathering, they and bluejays and the
like do not seem to possess what e.g. all the social songbirds seem to
share with Humans: a certain recognizable 'gregariousness'. We Humans
appear to respond strongly to this capability.

Crows/ravens appear to be in a whole other class of intelligence.

Re: [Vo]:Carl Page discusses cold fusion

[Che]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:

> See:
>
> "Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Work And Could Supplant Fossil Fuels"
>
> https://www.edge.org/response-detail/26753
>
> This is a positive article.
>
> I gather this person is the brother of Larry Page, the founder of Google.
> So I suppose he is influential.
>
> - Jed
>
>

The unstated -- but ever-present -- premise of such hopes for a brave new,
cheap/abundant, 'clean' fuel source, is a fervently-hoped-for salvation of
this decadent, dead-end Capitalist order from itself.

Us marxists never kid ourselves about this (not-so-well) hidden agenda --
or the most-likely real outcome of such pious pipe dreaming.

Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.

[Che]

Have I missed something? Why is Rossi still being taken seriously here on
vortex-L?

At the very least, his proprietary secrecy has cost Science a great deal.






On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:31 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> It has been evident for years that Rossi has been spending time boning up
> on atomic physics.
>
> What he writes here makes sense to me, but perhaps others here, more
> expert than me, will comment.
>
>
>1. Andrea Rossi
>March 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM
>
> 
>
>Eugene Atthove:
>As a matter of fact, neutrinos and antineutrinos in the nuclear
>physics equations are “tricks”, assumed to be real to obtain the respect of
>the leptons conservation law.
>For example: the neutron decay, of which we talked yesterday, gives
>one proton, one electron and one antineutrino: why? Because at the left of
>the neutron decay equation you do not have leptons, at the right you have
>one lepton and this would be against the leptons number conservation law:
>therefore you have to assume the emission of an antineutrino, so you have
>one plus lepton ( the electron ), one minus lepton ( the antineutrino ) =
>zero leptons also at the right of the equation, so that the law is
>respected. You could say that this sounds a little bit tricky, like an
>artifact, but…it is, albeit without this trick the Standard Model would
>brutally crack down: realistically, between a crack and a trick is better
>the trick.
>Warm Regards,
>A.R.
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.

[Che]

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 1:33 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> See http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/
> Like it or not,  Rossi rekindled interest in LENR like no other has.
>


Where's the BEEF??
Where's the damned water-heater the World was promised..?
(Where's the 'Orbo' Revolution, for that matter...)

Damned 'private-property' interests.
Capitalist 'efficiency' (Over-Unity, at that) at its best...
Pfft.









> AA
>
>
>
> On 4/2/2017 12:12 PM, Che wrote:
>
>
> Have I missed something? Why is Rossi still being taken seriously here on
> vortex-L?
>
> At the very least, his proprietary secrecy has cost Science a great deal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:31 PM, a.ashfield 
> wrote:
>
>> It has been evident for years that Rossi has been spending time boning up
>> on atomic physics.
>>
>> What he writes here makes sense to me, but perhaps others here, more
>> expert than me, will comment.
>>
>>
>>1. Andrea Rossi
>>March 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM
>>
>> <http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=223#comment-1273347>
>>
>>Eugene Atthove:
>>As a matter of fact, neutrinos and antineutrinos in the nuclear
>>physics equations are “tricks”, assumed to be real to obtain the respect 
>> of
>>the leptons conservation law.
>>For example: the neutron decay, of which we talked yesterday, gives
>>one proton, one electron and one antineutrino: why? Because at the left of
>>the neutron decay equation you do not have leptons, at the right you have
>>one lepton and this would be against the leptons number conservation law:
>>therefore you have to assume the emission of an antineutrino, so you have
>>one plus lepton ( the electron ), one minus lepton ( the antineutrino ) =
>>zero leptons also at the right of the equation, so that the law is
>>respected. You could say that this sounds a little bit tricky, like an
>>artifact, but…it is, albeit without this trick the Standard Model would
>>brutally crack down: realistically, between a crack and a trick is better
>>the trick.
>>Warm Regards,
>>A.R.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.

[Che]

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 5:39 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Che,
> Have you ever done anything apart from bitch about others failings?  Well.
> do tell us.
>


Stop being so predictably defensive and just answer the questions which
MOST people will no doubt be asking -- especially after the despicable
spectacle of Rossi The Showman's 5-Ring e-Circus.


Or shut up yourself.




>
> AA
>
>
> On 4/2/2017 4:38 PM, Che wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 1:33 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>> See http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/
>> Like it or not,  Rossi rekindled interest in LENR like no other has.
>>
>
>
> Where's the BEEF??
> Where's the damned water-heater the World was promised..?
> (Where's the 'Orbo' Revolution, for that matter...)
>
> Damned 'private-property' interests.
> Capitalist 'efficiency' (Over-Unity, at that) at its best...
> Pfft.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> AA
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/2017 12:12 PM, Che wrote:
>>
>>
>> Have I missed something? Why is Rossi still being taken seriously here on
>> vortex-L?
>>
>> At the very least, his proprietary secrecy has cost Science a great deal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:31 PM, a.ashfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It has been evident for years that Rossi has been spending time boning
>>> up on atomic physics.
>>>
>>> What he writes here makes sense to me, but perhaps others here, more
>>> expert than me, will comment.
>>>
>>>
>>>1. Andrea Rossi
>>>March 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM
>>>
>>> <http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=223#comment-1273347>
>>>
>>>Eugene Atthove:
>>>As a matter of fact, neutrinos and antineutrinos in the nuclear
>>>physics equations are “tricks”, assumed to be real to obtain the respect 
>>> of
>>>the leptons conservation law.
>>>For example: the neutron decay, of which we talked yesterday, gives
>>>one proton, one electron and one antineutrino: why? Because at the left 
>>> of
>>>the neutron decay equation you do not have leptons, at the right you have
>>>one lepton and this would be against the leptons number conservation law:
>>>therefore you have to assume the emission of an antineutrino, so you have
>>>one plus lepton ( the electron ), one minus lepton ( the antineutrino ) =
>>>zero leptons also at the right of the equation, so that the law is
>>>respected. You could say that this sounds a little bit tricky, like an
>>>artifact, but…it is, albeit without this trick the Standard Model would
>>>brutally crack down: realistically, between a crack and a trick is better
>>>the trick.
>>>Warm Regards,
>>>A.R.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.

[Che]

Is this what we are all supposed to understand, now -- or is this just your
considered speculative opinion?


On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> @Che
>
> Your expectations about how LENR will evolve is almost universally held
> but unfortunately incorrect. LENR produces energy by ripping apart matter
> into subatomic particles thereby producing radiation loading that is
> proportional to the heat produced. If LENR produces tons of energy in the
> aggregate, it will also produce tons of all pervasive and highly
> penetrating meson based radiation exposure.
>
> Because of this radiation risk, LENR will be regulated just like neutron
> based nuclear energy is today. Meson based nuclear energy will be similar
> to neutron based nuclear energy except without the radioactive nuclear
> waste problem.
>
> Large LENR reactors will be sited underground feeding gigawatts of
> electric power to the grid. There will be no LENR powered cars or hot water
> heaters or stand alone how based electric power generators.
>
> Those huge LENR based underground electric power stations won't be sited
> and running until most of the Vort membership is long gone.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 1:33 PM, a.ashfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> See http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/
>>> Like it or not,  Rossi rekindled interest in LENR like no other has.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Where's the BEEF??
>> Where's the damned water-heater the World was promised..?
>> (Where's the 'Orbo' Revolution, for that matter...)
>>
>> Damned 'private-property' interests.
>> Capitalist 'efficiency' (Over-Unity, at that) at its best...
>> Pfft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> AA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/2/2017 12:12 PM, Che wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Have I missed something? Why is Rossi still being taken seriously here
>>> on vortex-L?
>>>
>>> At the very least, his proprietary secrecy has cost Science a great deal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:31 PM, a.ashfield 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It has been evident for years that Rossi has been spending time boning
>>>> up on atomic physics.
>>>>
>>>> What he writes here makes sense to me, but perhaps others here, more
>>>> expert than me, will comment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1. Andrea Rossi
>>>>March 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=223#comment-1273347>
>>>>
>>>>Eugene Atthove:
>>>>As a matter of fact, neutrinos and antineutrinos in the nuclear
>>>>physics equations are “tricks”, assumed to be real to obtain the 
>>>> respect of
>>>>the leptons conservation law.
>>>>For example: the neutron decay, of which we talked yesterday, gives
>>>>one proton, one electron and one antineutrino: why? Because at the left 
>>>> of
>>>>the neutron decay equation you do not have leptons, at the right you 
>>>> have
>>>>one lepton and this would be against the leptons number conservation 
>>>> law:
>>>>therefore you have to assume the emission of an antineutrino, so you 
>>>> have
>>>>one plus lepton ( the electron ), one minus lepton ( the antineutrino ) 
>>>> =
>>>>zero leptons also at the right of the equation, so that the law is
>>>>respected. You could say that this sounds a little bit tricky, like an
>>>>artifact, but…it is, albeit without this trick the Standard Model would
>>>>brutally crack down: realistically, between a crack and a trick is 
>>>> better
>>>>the trick.
>>>>Warm Regards,
>>>>A.R.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.

[Che]

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Brian Ahern  wrote:

>
> Rossi kindled interest in a similar fashion to Bernie Madoff!
>


That's about the most sense I've read here today.





>
> ------
> *From:* Che 
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 2, 2017 4:38 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 1:33 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>> See http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/
>> Like it or not,  Rossi rekindled interest in LENR like no other has.
>>
>
>
> Where's the BEEF??
> Where's the damned water-heater the World was promised..?
> (Where's the 'Orbo' Revolution, for that matter...)
>
> Damned 'private-property' interests.
> Capitalist 'efficiency' (Over-Unity, at that) at its best...
> Pfft.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> AA
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/2017 12:12 PM, Che wrote:
>>
>>
>> Have I missed something? Why is Rossi still being taken seriously here on
>> vortex-L?
>>
>> At the very least, his proprietary secrecy has cost Science a great deal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:31 PM, a.ashfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It has been evident for years that Rossi has been spending time boning
>>> up on atomic physics.
>>>
>>> What he writes here makes sense to me, but perhaps others here, more
>>> expert than me, will comment.
>>>
>>>
>>>1. Andrea Rossi
>>>March 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM
>>>
>>> <http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=223#comment-1273347>
>>>
>>>Eugene Atthove:
>>>As a matter of fact, neutrinos and antineutrinos in the nuclear
>>>physics equations are “tricks”, assumed to be real to obtain the respect 
>>> of
>>>the leptons conservation law.
>>>For example: the neutron decay, of which we talked yesterday, gives
>>>one proton, one electron and one antineutrino: why? Because at the left 
>>> of
>>>the neutron decay equation you do not have leptons, at the right you have
>>>one lepton and this would be against the leptons number conservation law:
>>>therefore you have to assume the emission of an antineutrino, so you have
>>>one plus lepton ( the electron ), one minus lepton ( the antineutrino ) =
>>>zero leptons also at the right of the equation, so that the law is
>>>respected. You could say that this sounds a little bit tricky, like an
>>>artifact, but…it is, albeit without this trick the Standard Model would
>>>brutally crack down: realistically, between a crack and a trick is better
>>>the trick.
>>>Warm Regards,
>>>A.R.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]: Rossi on atomic physics.

[Che]

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
> As an ideologue, remember to alway keep your feet planted firmly on the
solid foundation of realism.



Frankly, I'll take an ideological stance over crass, money-grubbing
commercialism, any day.
Look where that's got us.

Re: [Vo]:JCMNS Vol. 23 uploaded

[Che]

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:37 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Bob Higgins  wrote:
>
>
>> My primary observation about the Budko-Korshunov experiment(s) is that it
>> is reporting on a variable space that has never been reported to show XH.
>>
>
> I hope you are right.
>
> You should inform the authors.
>
> - Jed
>
>
How many thousands of variables have to be accounted for, in cold
fusion..?? Where's the list or lists?

Doesn't have to be complete. Just started.

Re: [Vo]:People are worried: Amazon will replace Whole Foods workers with robots

[Che]

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> vhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/16/
> people-are-worried-amazon-will-replace-whole-foods-
> workers-with-robots/?utm_term=.8da06e571e18
>


I'll state it again in this forum (in spite of the knee-jerk anti-communism
around here, and most everywhere else in the U.S. and bourgeois society):

The core logic of capitalism has an INNATE flaw: the *requirement* to
compete (even considering monopoly interests) -- which *forces* the
competing 'capital pools' to *automate* production, in order to drive down
costs. And while cost-per-unit does indeed fall with automation -- the
worker becoming more and more superfluous to the process, as is intended --
**so does the rate-of-profit as well**: because, as we should *all* know --
it is the *Surplus-Labor* of the worker which IS the source of the
Industrialists' profit...

And so we have an _essential_ contradiction here. And the thing about
essential contradictions is -- they are insurmountable.
In spite of ENDLESS, hysterical, brow-beating propaganda to the contrary.

Re: [Vo]:People are worried: Amazon will replace Whole Foods workers with robots

[Che]

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
> If replacing workers with robots was Amazon's main angle, they would have
> been better off going for Safeway or that type of mass merchant. why?
> ...putting cans of soup on a shelf seems like a much easier challenge to
> robotize than picking out the nicest veggies.
>
> I think Amazon's main angle, or one of them, is to have a lot of places
> where well-heeled shoppers can be counted on to be there a couple of times
> a week... allowing them to order (via mobile phone) and in many cases
> pickup their Amazon goods when they are grocery shopping and without
> sending a delivery truck out. Delivery is the last big cost factor to
> address. Amazon Prime has helped but they can make more on the
> entertainment, if they can shift the some delivery cost back a less costly
> avenue.
>
> Amazon and Walmart are trying to maximize every little part of the retail
> transaction but in the end, my money would be on Amazon as their online
> capability is so huge.
>
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
> vhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/16/
> people-are-worried-amazon-will-replace-whole-foods-
> workers-with-robots/?utm_term=.8da06e571e18
>
>
>

I'm sure Amazon's first order of business is building an online clientele
for fresh produce and groceries.
What can be automated later, will be. Later.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Che]

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
> Eric Walker wrote:
>
> I don't think our approach has resulted in a skewing of the narrative
> relating to the Rossi v. Darden story, except to filter out people who are
> only seeking to pick a fight.  Even those people's views have not been
> suppressed, merely moved to a separate thread where they will not derail
> the main thread.
>
> From what I've seen Eric, you have done a good job in a polarized
> environment which seems to be every bit as toxic as the political arena has
> become these days.
>
> The ironic thing is that most of us came to this little corner of
> Cyberspace because we wanted Rossi (or anyone else it ) to pull it off - to
> have broken through the technological barrier.  That barrier would consist
> of low power and unreliably.
>
> Taking a QM effect of hydrogen and scaling it up a thousandfold to
> kilowatts 24/7 is what the planet needs. We desperately wanted it to be
> done this time - and were seduced to think it had been. Now it looks like
> another big disappointment awaits in Miami. There will be no winners.
>


I am so utterly disappointed as well,  as are so many of you.
Still -- taking the 'long view' is the thing.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Che]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> Comments get moved to another thread without notification.
> Commenters can get put "on probation" without notification.   You
> yourself are a moderator but it doesn't say that on your title.   You
> allow insults from some people but not others in a one-sided fashion,
> again without notification.   So those of us who would like to go over
> there will have to jump through your unpublished moderation guidelines
> in order to avoid "probation".
>
> There aren't that many rules over here on Vortex but even still, some
> of your more vociferous and full-of-shit members over there have been
> banned from Vortex, like MaryYugo.
>

MaryYugo..? I'm shocked, SHOCKED to read that she has ruffled feathers.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Che]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
>
>> There aren't that many rules over here on Vortex but even still, some
>> of your more vociferous and full-of-shit members over there have been
>> banned from Vortex, like MaryYugo.
>>
>
> Frankly, I do not understand why people are bothered by Mary Yugo. She
> seems harmless to me. More polite than many skeptics. She reminds me of
> Groucho Marx singing "Whatever it is, I'm against it."
>
> Some people claim she is a he. Surely that doesn't count for anything in
> the 21st century. It is almost commonplace. I don't think much of internet
> anonymity or people giving themselves fake names, but if they are going do
> that, I don't care if they reverse genders or name themselves after comic
> book characters or chemical elements or what-have-you.
>
> - Jed
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMV44yoXZ0
>


Wasn't she accused of representing certain corporate interests, at one
point?

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Che]

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

But ... the big issue is this: can an ill-conceived contract be interpreted
> by a jury to overlook the actual results (to imply that only the ERV's
> conclusion matters, not the substance of the report) ?
>
>
The World runs the way it does, precisely _because_ 'the letter of the law'
(here, contract law) trumps ALL other considerations. Even life & death.

(The only real caveat to this 'iron law' being: who wields _more_ power, on
which side of any contract..?)

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Che]

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

>
>
> It seems that Rossi has spent his adult life cultivating such people and
> then stealing from them. Unfortunately, in the course of doing this, he may
> have destroyed the last hope of funding for cold fusion. Unless the Texas
> Tech project pans out, this time cold fusion may be gone for good. It will
> be forgotten.
>
> - Jed
>



If cold fusion is objectively real -- it cannot *ever* be actually
forgotten -- let alone _remain_ forgotten.
Especially in this day and age of the Internet and mass communications.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Che]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 2:32 AM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

I personally believe that Rossi has at least ideas about how to make LENR
> work, possibly he has a solution. Let him reveal that. He has promised
> after the trial to show us. Rossi looks not as a fraudster to me. He act as
> a passionate entrepreneur in my opinion. It is required to be an optimist
> to get that kind of label. Sometimes the entrepreneurial spirit contains a
> teaspoon of wishful thinking as you call it. It can be labeled vision also.
>

Whether most of the people here accept it or not, it's damned obvious that
the intrusion of *capitalist relations* into scientific research is
_exactly_ what has produced this whole mess -- and many, many others -- in
the first place. And money-grubbing capitalist mischief-making ONLY enters
into the equation at all, because scientific research *is* -- *personally*
-- horrifically monetarily expensive.

But: it does not HAVE to be, eh?

Re: [Vo]:A forgotten chapter in LENR

[Che]

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:03 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

IMHO, the person who has done the best work is Keith A. Fredericks at
> http://restframe.com/
>
>
> Keith does not know what he is seeing has comes about, but he does
> understand how the metalized hydride behaves.
>
> Keith thinks that the energy loaded metalized hydride crystal is a
> tachyon.
>


How can time -- motion, that is -- have a 'negative' aspect..?

Re: [Vo]:A forgotten chapter in LENR

[Che]

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Time symmetry requires that the laws of nature operate the same when time
> goes either forward or backwards.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_translation_symmetry
>


This typical thinking assumes much. Like 'doing the math' actually reflects
the Reality.

That is why we (for instance) have to put up with nonsense like
0-dimensional 'singularities' and the like...

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Che]

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Everyone will have an opinion, but the details are not public. I suspect
> that some of the details will seep out over time.
>
> My take on the major factor which led to the withdrawal of claims is that
> Rossi's attorney finally realized that he could not ethically put Rossi on
> the stand and let Rossi testify to those details which were in the
> deposition but which were so obviously false - such as the imaginary heat
> exchanger, the imaginary customer with the imaginary product which used up
> so much imaginary heat, and the imaginary ERV report.
>
> Subornation of perjury would ruin his career.



Is this take of yours above based on any real, plausible analysis of the
situation and facts, or just your opinion on Rossi in general..?

I really have no opinion or knowledge of any particular facts concerning
this OTOH typical and obvious cruddy, squabbling, ego-ridden,
money-grubbing falling out, one way or the other.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Che]

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> I think that, because things were kept in secret, it will keep going with,
> perhaps, more steam (pun intended, LOL!!!).
>

Secrecy -- the utter bane of scientific research AND democracy -- is wholly
a factor in all these undertakings because of the concomitant *'private
property' interests* involved. NONE of this research should be left to
money-grubbing private interests. An easy bet could have been made that
things _would_ go south with this particular project -- once this 'vulture
capitalist' interest became involved.

People here sneer at the likes of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial
Project... but say what you will: its very OPEN [Source] nature is what
*will* at least keep it out of the grubby clutches of moneyed-interests.

Andrea Rossi was _always_ making a fundamental mistake by 'chasing the
money' from the get-go.