Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
The velocity distributions of the ZPE can be determined with the Fizeau-Fresnel-effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizeau_experiment#Fresnel_drag_coefficient Polarizability and magnetizability can be speed and direction dependent according to the Fizeau-Fresnel-effect. Can you imagine a process to determine ZPE effects based on the Fresnel drag coefficient? Remeber that particles in hydrogen gas moves at 2 km/s at room temperature. High speeds are present in our environment. David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:51 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > Good question… > > How can ANY properties of the vacuum/ether/ZPF be measured? > > ** ** > > Until we have instrumentation which is capable of detecting and measuring > one or more properties of the vacuum, it will remain an enigma; an unknown. > > > ** ** > > It was MEMS and nanotech that allowed us to test for the Casimir force… so > perhaps a ZPF multimeter is not far off. > > ** ** > > -Mark > > ** ** > > *From:* David Jonsson [mailto:davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:52 AM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and > magnetic fields > > ** ** > > How could the velocity distribution of those virtual particles be > determined? > > ** ** > > David > > ** ** > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:58 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint > wrote: > > Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields > > http://arxiv.org/pdf/0902.1305.pdf > > > > -- > > ABSTRACT > > In summary, according to the analysis of the energy and force of the > electric and magnetic fields on the basis of vacuum polarization, it is > concluded that an electric field is a polarized distribution of the vacuum > virtual dipoles, and that a magnetic field in vacuum is a rearrangement of > the vacuum polarization. Thus, the electromagnetic wave can be > > regarded as a successional changing of the vacuum polarization in space. > Also, it is found that the virtual dipoles around an elementary charge > possess an average half length > > a = 2.8 × 10^−15 m. > > This result leads to the knowledge that an electric field has a step > distribution of the energy density, which eliminated the divergence in > calculating the electron’s electrostatic energy. And it is known that there > is a relation between the fine structure constant and the vacuum > polarization distribution, which reduced the mystery of the constant α. > Finally, it is figured out that an extremely high energy density of the > electromagnetic field can be ∼ 10^29 J/m^3, which implies an optical > power density ∼ 10^33 W/cm^2; > > far higher than the Schwinger critical value. With these interesting > findings, we anticipate that the vacuum polarization investigation of the > fields will be developed further and applied to more fundamental problems > of physics. > > - > > > > Some of you will remember how I’ve expressed my thoughts on a qualitative > model I’ve been developing which is based on a physical model of the vacuum > and its properties and behavior which results in the things that we > perceive to be subatomic particles/atoms. Remember how I regretted not > having the mathematical skills necessary to quantify my qualitative model? > Well, it would seem that this person has beat me to it! His description of > the propagation of an EM wave a “…successional changing of the vacuum > polarization in space” is exactly how I envision it. I hope this scientist > continues to develop his ideas, and gets some help from other bright minds… > I’d like to see where this path might lead! > > > > -Mark > > > > ** ** >
RE: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
Robin, You only answered 2 of my 7 questions! Don't be shy... :-) -Mark GIVEN: Two Casimir cavities, C1 and C2, with plate spacings of d1 and d2, respectively, and d1 *NOT* equal to d2 so one Casimir cavity excludes more wavelengths of virtual particles than the other, then there would be a difference in some kind of property between C1 and C2 (ED1 and ED2; ED=energy density). QUESTIONS: - ANSWERED: Can that difference be thought of as a kind of pressure? - ANSWERED: How would you measure that pressure? - Would that pressure diff cause some polarization of the vacuum? And more importantly, - If you 'connected' one of the plates of C1 to one of the plates of C2, would you get some kind of 'flow' (of something!) between them? (A flow of electrons or virtual particles perhaps?) - If a flow of virtual particles can occur, then what would you use to connect C1 to C2? - Would it be a continuous flow since you probably can't deplete the vacuum? - Can you equate various aspects of atoms (I'm thinking physical spacings) as Casimir cavities with different spacings (after all, there is only vacuum between subatomic particles), and thus the above situation is present everywhere, and there are continuous flows of vacuum going on within atoms/nuclei? -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 2:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields In reply to MarkI-ZeroPoint's message of Sat, 28 Jul 2012 23:47:22 -0700: Hi, [snip] > - Can that difference be thought of as a kind of pressure? > - How would you measure that pressure? I think you have hit the nail on the head. Pressure is an energy density, so if you can calculate the latter, then you also know the former. There already exists a formula for Casimir energy based on plate spacing, so it shouldn't be too hard to calculate the energy density and express it as a pressure. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
In reply to MarkI-ZeroPoint's message of Sat, 28 Jul 2012 23:47:22 -0700: Hi, [snip] > - Can that difference be thought of as a kind of pressure? > - How would you measure that pressure? I think you have hit the nail on the head. Pressure is an energy density, so if you can calculate the latter, then you also know the former. There already exists a formula for Casimir energy based on plate spacing, so it shouldn't be too hard to calculate the energy density and express it as a pressure. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
Robin: Thanks for the feedback, and in one sense you are right (and I'll add 'permittivity' to your list), but I was thinking of a property akin to 'pressure'... and I'm going to have to think about how to better express my thoughts! Why does electrical current 'flow'? Well, because of an imbalance of electric charges between two regions, one can think of each region being at a certain pressure, and the delta between them is called 'voltage', or potential difference for the old fogies. Connect these regions with a conductor of some kind and electrical current will 'flow'. Now, can this analogy be applied to the vacuum? GIVEN: Two Casimir cavities, C1 and C2, with plate spacings of d1 and d2, respectively, and d1 *NOT* equal to d2 so one Casimir cavity excludes more wavelengths of virtual particles than the other, then there would be a difference in some kind of property between C1 and C2 (ED1 and ED2; ED=energy density). QUESTIONS: - Can that difference be thought of as a kind of pressure? - How would you measure that pressure? - Would that pressure diff cause some polarization of the vacuum? And more importantly, - If you 'connected' one of the plates of C1 to one of the plates of C2, would you get some kind of 'flow' (of something!) between them? (A flow of virtual particles perhaps?) - If a flow of virtual particles can occur, then what would you use to connect C1 to C2? - Would it be a continuous flow since you probably can't deplete the vacuum? - Can you equate various aspects of atoms (I'm thinking physical spacings) as Casimir cavities with different spacings (after all, there is only vacuum between subatomic particles), and thus the above situation is present everywhere, and there are continuous flows of vacuum going on within atoms/nuclei? I seem to have triggered a constant flow of questions, but I'll stop there! :-) G'nite all, -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:15 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields In reply to MarkI-ZeroPoint's message of Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:51:13 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Good question. > >How can ANY properties of the vacuum/ether/ZPF be measured? We already know some of them: 1) Polarizability of the vacuum. 2) Permeability of the vacuum, together yielding 3) The speed of light. 4) Planck's constant. 5) The fine structure constant, though I'm not sure whether or not that properly deserves the title of property, as it's dimensionless. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
In reply to MarkI-ZeroPoint's message of Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:51:13 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Good question > >How can ANY properties of the vacuum/ether/ZPF be measured? We already know some of them: 1) Polarizability of the vacuum. 2) Permeability of the vacuum, together yielding 3) The speed of light. 4) Planck's constant. 5) The fine structure constant, though I'm not sure whether or not that properly deserves the title of property, as it's dimensionless. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 26 Jul 2012 08:43:03 -0700: Hi, [snip] >In the numen est nomen department - here is a humorous thought if we want to >get away from ZPE as being too overwrought: not that it is any easier to >accept DCE or polarizable vacuum but if we want to specify something >specific like a dynamical Casimir effect for the road well no not >Fahrvergnügen, but close. Given the lore of zero point: the long history, the >Higgs field, the Einstein-Stern-Planck connection, the Sci-Fi nature of it all > we could always revisit Einsteins original terminology: Nullpunktsenergie. "Null-punkts-energie" is quite literally "zero-point-energy" or ZPE. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
Hi Jones, You said… “and in fact, it would not surprise me if there is already supporting data out there, having been accumulated using advanced instruments designed for other purposes, and being held back for the proper timing/context. This can include the LHC.” Agreed, and I’ll go further and say that it wouldn’t surprise me if ‘supporting data’ was written off as error since the anomalous effect wasn’t reproducible! I.e., various instruments and experiments have created conditions which would have resulted in an interaction with the vacuum, but only rarely since it takes very precise and specific conditions, but when it did happen, it was explained away as error since it didn’t happen in the other 10 times they repeated the experiment! -Mark From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields Mark, I think you are correct about the instrumentation for quantifying zero point – “on the way”… and in fact, it would not surprise me if there is already supporting data out there, having been accumulated using advanced instruments designed for other purposes, and being held back for the proper timing/context. This can include the LHC. In the numen est nomen department - here is a humorous thought if we want to get away from “ZPE” as being too overwrought: not that it is any easier to accept “DCE” or “polarizable vacuum”… but if we want to specify something specific like a dynamical Casimir effect for the road… well no… not Fahrvergnügen, but close. Given the lore of zero point: the long history, the Higgs field, the Einstein-Stern-Planck connection, the Sci-Fi nature of it all – we could always revisit Einstein’s original terminology: Nullpunktsenergie. I had to tune up my spell checker for than honker. It is such a weird and wonderful Teutonic run-on, conjuring up “steam punk” and so forth, that it is almost a surprise that VW has not (yet) used it for one of their SUVs … …maybe they are waiting for the Ni-H powered version to hit the market. From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Until we have instrumentation which is capable of detecting and measuring one or more properties of the vacuum, it will remain an enigma; an unknown. It was MEMS and nanotech that allowed us to test for the Casimir force… so perhaps a ZPF multimeter is not far off. -Mark
RE: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
Mark, I think you are correct about the instrumentation for quantifying zero point – “on the way”… and in fact, it would not surprise me if there is already supporting data out there, having been accumulated using advanced instruments designed for other purposes, and being held back for the proper timing/context. This can include the LHC. In the numen est nomen department - here is a humorous thought if we want to get away from “ZPE” as being too overwrought: not that it is any easier to accept “DCE” or “polarizable vacuum”… but if we want to specify something specific like a dynamical Casimir effect for the road… well no… not Fahrvergnügen, but close. Given the lore of zero point: the long history, the Higgs field, the Einstein-Stern-Planck connection, the Sci-Fi nature of it all – we could always revisit Einstein’s original terminology: Nullpunktsenergie. I had to tune up my spell checker for than honker. It is such a weird and wonderful Teutonic run-on, conjuring up “steam punk” and so forth, that it is almost a surprise that VW has not (yet) used it for one of their SUVs … …maybe they are waiting for the Ni-H powered version to hit the market. From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Until we have instrumentation which is capable of detecting and measuring one or more properties of the vacuum, it will remain an enigma; an unknown. It was MEMS and nanotech that allowed us to test for the Casimir force… so perhaps a ZPF multimeter is not far off. -Mark
RE: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
Good question… How can ANY properties of the vacuum/ether/ZPF be measured? Until we have instrumentation which is capable of detecting and measuring one or more properties of the vacuum, it will remain an enigma; an unknown. It was MEMS and nanotech that allowed us to test for the Casimir force… so perhaps a ZPF multimeter is not far off. -Mark From: David Jonsson [mailto:davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:52 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields How could the velocity distribution of those virtual particles be determined? David On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:58 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields http://arxiv.org/pdf/0902.1305.pdf -- ABSTRACT In summary, according to the analysis of the energy and force of the electric and magnetic fields on the basis of vacuum polarization, it is concluded that an electric field is a polarized distribution of the vacuum virtual dipoles, and that a magnetic field in vacuum is a rearrangement of the vacuum polarization. Thus, the electromagnetic wave can be regarded as a successional changing of the vacuum polarization in space. Also, it is found that the virtual dipoles around an elementary charge possess an average half length a = 2.8 × 10^−15 m. This result leads to the knowledge that an electric field has a step distribution of the energy density, which eliminated the divergence in calculating the electron’s electrostatic energy. And it is known that there is a relation between the fine structure constant and the vacuum polarization distribution, which reduced the mystery of the constant α. Finally, it is figured out that an extremely high energy density of the electromagnetic field can be ∼ 10^29 J/m^3, which implies an optical power density ∼ 10^33 W/cm^2; far higher than the Schwinger critical value. With these interesting findings, we anticipate that the vacuum polarization investigation of the fields will be developed further and applied to more fundamental problems of physics. - Some of you will remember how I’ve expressed my thoughts on a qualitative model I’ve been developing which is based on a physical model of the vacuum and its properties and behavior which results in the things that we perceive to be subatomic particles/atoms. Remember how I regretted not having the mathematical skills necessary to quantify my qualitative model? Well, it would seem that this person has beat me to it! His description of the propagation of an EM wave a “…successional changing of the vacuum polarization in space” is exactly how I envision it. I hope this scientist continues to develop his ideas, and gets some help from other bright minds… I’d like to see where this path might lead! -Mark
Re: [Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
How could the velocity distribution of those virtual particles be determined? David On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:58 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields > > http://arxiv.org/pdf/0902.1305.pdf > > ** ** > > -- > > ABSTRACT > > In summary, according to the analysis of the energy and force of the > electric and magnetic fields on the basis of vacuum polarization, it is > concluded that an electric field is a polarized distribution of the vacuum > virtual dipoles, and that a magnetic field in vacuum is a rearrangement of > the vacuum polarization. Thus, the electromagnetic wave can be > > regarded as a successional changing of the vacuum polarization in space. > Also, it is found that the virtual dipoles around an elementary charge > possess an average half length > > a = 2.8 × 10^−15 m. > > This result leads to the knowledge that an electric field has a step > distribution of the energy density, which eliminated the divergence in > calculating the electron’s electrostatic energy. And it is known that there > is a relation between the fine structure constant and the vacuum > polarization distribution, which reduced the mystery of the constant α. > Finally, it is figured out that an extremely high energy density of the > electromagnetic field can be ∼ 10^29 J/m^3, which implies an optical > power density ∼ 10^33 W/cm^2; > > far higher than the Schwinger critical value. With these interesting > findings, we anticipate that the vacuum polarization investigation of the > fields will be developed further and applied to more fundamental problems > of physics. > > - > > ** ** > > Some of you will remember how I’ve expressed my thoughts on a qualitative > model I’ve been developing which is based on a physical model of the vacuum > and its properties and behavior which results in the things that we > perceive to be subatomic particles/atoms. Remember how I regretted not > having the mathematical skills necessary to quantify my qualitative model? > Well, it would seem that this person has beat me to it! His description of > the propagation of an EM wave a “…successional changing of the vacuum > polarization in space” is exactly how I envision it. I hope this scientist > continues to develop his ideas, and gets some help from other bright minds… > I’d like to see where this path might lead! > > ** ** > > -Mark > > ** ** >
[Vo]:FYI: Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields
Polarizable vacuum analysis of electric and magnetic fields http://arxiv.org/pdf/0902.1305.pdf -- ABSTRACT In summary, according to the analysis of the energy and force of the electric and magnetic fields on the basis of vacuum polarization, it is concluded that an electric field is a polarized distribution of the vacuum virtual dipoles, and that a magnetic field in vacuum is a rearrangement of the vacuum polarization. Thus, the electromagnetic wave can be regarded as a successional changing of the vacuum polarization in space. Also, it is found that the virtual dipoles around an elementary charge possess an average half length a = 2.8 × 10^−15 m. This result leads to the knowledge that an electric field has a step distribution of the energy density, which eliminated the divergence in calculating the electron’s electrostatic energy. And it is known that there is a relation between the fine structure constant and the vacuum polarization distribution, which reduced the mystery of the constant α. Finally, it is figured out that an extremely high energy density of the electromagnetic field can be ∼ 10^29 J/m^3, which implies an optical power density ∼ 10^33 W/cm^2; far higher than the Schwinger critical value. With these interesting findings, we anticipate that the vacuum polarization investigation of the fields will be developed further and applied to more fundamental problems of physics. - Some of you will remember how I’ve expressed my thoughts on a qualitative model I’ve been developing which is based on a physical model of the vacuum and its properties and behavior which results in the things that we perceive to be subatomic particles/atoms. Remember how I regretted not having the mathematical skills necessary to quantify my qualitative model? Well, it would seem that this person has beat me to it! His description of the propagation of an EM wave a “…successional changing of the vacuum polarization in space” is exactly how I envision it. I hope this scientist continues to develop his ideas, and gets some help from other bright minds… I’d like to see where this path might lead! -Mark
