Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:55 AM, Charles HOPE wrote: > Murray should apologize to Earthtech for making derogatory comments on > Rossi's experiment that were quotes of Cude's criticism? Not at all. I am saying that Murray should have copied the following to EarthTech. He left them without "the rest of the story". <><><><><><> fromRich Murray reply-tovortex-l@eskimo.com to joshua.c...@yahoo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com, michael barron , Rich Murray , Rich Murray , Mark Iverson dateThu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:04 AM subject [Vo]:probably, the Rossi demos have a complex control box with thermal controls that lower the electric input power when the reactor gets too hot: Cede: Murray 2011.02.09 mailed-by eskimo.com unsubscribe Unsubscribe from this sender hide details Feb 10 (7 days ago) probably, the Rossi demos have a complex control box with thermal controls that lower the electric input heater power when the reactor gets too hot: Cude: Murray 2011.02.09 fromMark Iverson reply-tovortex-l@eskimo.com to vortex-l@eskimo.com dateWed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:50 PM subject RE: [Vo]:Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not hold water 9:50 PM (51 minutes ago) This whole thread started by the critique by Joshua Cude posted by Rich Murray... It would appear that Joshua (and Rich) have not read all of the comments and reports on Rossi's website, so they were UNinformed as to the purpose of the 'control box'. Rich, would you please correct Joshua on this so he doesn't go spreading MISinformation about the demo! -Mark
Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
Murray should apologize to Earthtech for making derogatory comments on Rossi's experiment that were quotes of Cude's criticism? On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: > And that changes what I said how? > > T > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Rich Murray wrote: > > Hello Terry, > > > > I'm still doubtful about the Rossi claims, > > -- Never did I see a second sun Never did my skin touch a land of glass Never did my rifle point but true But in a land empty of enemies Waiting for the tick-tick-tick of the want A uranium angel Crying “behold,” This land that knew fire is yours Taken from Corruption To begin anew
Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
And that changes what I said how? T On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Rich Murray wrote: > Hello Terry, > > I'm still doubtful about the Rossi claims,
Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
Hello Terry, I'm still doubtful about the Rossi claims, due to the enormous confusion about the output water-steam flows, and the weak claims about gamma detection. I am not a doctrinaire skeptic, but as a scientific layman serve as a pragmatic skeptic about the simpler aspects of cold fusion research, while hoping for major benign advances. I am pleased by the overall courteous and thoughtful discussions. I was perplexed to not get any responses whatsoever from Earthtech, so assume they are operating on their own track re surprising, fast-moving matters that impinge on world security. Rossi has not released any details re his "explosions". Surely by now many teams worldwide are running their own experiments and checking out all possible leads of information. Amateur networks can contribute by spreading information as widely as possible. The list of elements and their isotopes that might be catalysts may be only a few dozen. The most recent Rossi comments include the claim that the half-lives of radioactives in his cells are less than a few minutes. However, I find it easy to imagine that every facet of this complex drama could be disinformation from multiple players with different agendas. The article on Wikipedia re BlackLight Power shows clearly that 50-100 million dollars can be attracted in two decades by a small scientific cult. I note that it's been 2 months since the private demo by Rossi on December 16, and he published provocative patents and reports in the last 2 years. Rich Murray On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Horace Heffner > wrote: > > > >> Independent evaluation of the commercial viability and utility of an >> invention like this is typically made, and could have been made in this >> case, by an independent third party, under a nondisclosure agreement (NDA) >> before commercial financing is provided. Evaluation of excess heat by >> calorimetry can even be accomplished free onsite by using companies like >> Earthtech (www.earthtech.org). > > But Murray cross posted derogatory comments on the experiment here: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42393.html > > And the archives do not show all the recipients unlike my gmail archives: > > > "from Rich Murray > reply-to vortex-l@eskimo.com > to vortex-L@eskimo.com, > michael barron , > Rich Murray , > Rich Murray , > "Sterling D. Allen" , > lit...@earthtech.org, > mari...@earthtech.org, > puth...@earthtech.org, > joshua.c...@yahoo.com > date Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:15 PM > subject [Vo]:Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not > hold water, decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08 > mailed-by eskimo.com > unsubscribe Unsubscribe from this sender > hide details Feb 8 (9 days ago) > Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not hold water, > decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08" > > > > Which included members of Earthtech. > > When I suggested he include Earthtech in his retraction: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42488.html > > Rich did not respond, leaving Earthtech with a "bad taste in their mouth". > > Unethical, IMO. > > T > >
Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Horace Heffner wrote: > Independent evaluation of the commercial viability and utility of an > invention like this is typically made, and could have been made in this > case, by an independent third party, under a nondisclosure agreement (NDA) > before commercial financing is provided. Evaluation of excess heat by > calorimetry can even be accomplished free onsite by using companies like > Earthtech (www.earthtech.org). But Murray cross posted derogatory comments on the experiment here: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42393.html And the archives do not show all the recipients unlike my gmail archives: "from Rich Murray reply-tovortex-l@eskimo.com to vortex-L@eskimo.com, michael barron , Rich Murray , Rich Murray , "Sterling D. Allen" , lit...@earthtech.org, mari...@earthtech.org, puth...@earthtech.org, joshua.c...@yahoo.com dateTue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:15 PM subject [Vo]:Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not hold water, decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08 mailed-by eskimo.com unsubscribe Unsubscribe from this sender hide details Feb 8 (9 days ago) Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not hold water, decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08" Which included members of Earthtech. When I suggested he include Earthtech in his retraction: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42488.html Rich did not respond, leaving Earthtech with a "bad taste in their mouth". Unethical, IMO. T
Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:15 AM, SHIRAKAWA Akira wrote: Hello group, Daniele Passerini from "22passi" blog interviewed again Andrea Rossi on February 13th. This is the original link: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/02/energy-catalyzer-facciamo-un-po- di.html And this is an English translation courtesy of PESN, edited by Hank Mills from a Google translation: http://pesn.com/2011/02/14/9501766_Rossi_catalyzer_clarity_interview/ * * * [snip] ROSSI - In a nutshell for very nicely measuring the range of radiation we should create a 360 degree hole in the reactor to allow the meter to read what's happening there. But what that implies is giving away the technology completely in the hands of a person prepared to interpret the data. To design the systems security anti spy technology of this kind is not enough to surround himself with collaborators honest and like ... I myself, Andrea, would be in crisis if someone were to say "we will give you a figure that will change your life overnight and your next five generations in return for telling us..." An offer of this kind would severely test even the honesty of a Saint. [snip] -- Cheers, S.A. Independent evaluation of the commercial viability and utility of an invention like this is typically made, and could have been made in this case, by an independent third party, under a nondisclosure agreement (NDA) before commercial financing is provided. Evaluation of excess heat by calorimetry can even be accomplished free onsite by using companies like Earthtech (www.earthtech.org). Such an evaluation requires no obfuscation and minimal intervention or constraints by the inventor during evaluation. There have been many cases discussed here over the last 15 years of bad or highly debatable calorimetry indicating total energy balances beyond chemical. No one should invest a dime in any CF scheme for business purposes unless expert calorimetry is performed in due diligence. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from "22passi" blog
Hello group, Daniele Passerini from "22passi" blog interviewed again Andrea Rossi on February 13th. This is the original link: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/02/energy-catalyzer-facciamo-un-po-di.html And this is an English translation courtesy of PESN, edited by Hank Mills from a Google translation: http://pesn.com/2011/02/14/9501766_Rossi_catalyzer_clarity_interview/ * * * Energy Catalyzer: Lets get some clarity. Last Monday I had the opportunity to meet Ing. Andrea Rossi for a second interview, this time face to face, in order to collect new details about his invention. I have recorded over 30 minutes of questions and answers that in the days following the interview I summarized in the following text. On the basis of a gentleman's agreement I also was given a number of clarifications, off record and confidential, which reinforce my belief that people - and there are many- that think this has something to do with a hoax are like a half mule and half ostrich. 22PASSI - Congratulations Mr. Rossi, the news of the invention of the E-Cat has been prominent in Greece where the Newco that assumes responsibility for it's production and marketing, Defkalion Green Technologies of Athens, is located. I imagine that Prof. Christos E. Stremmenos has to be played as a sponsor, who was an opponent of the regime of the colonels, former Ambassador of Greece to Rome, Professor of Physics at the University of Athens, and practically a national hero in Greece. In Italy the media have largely ignored the news and discussed it only on the web, often bitterly. The questions that I'm inspired to ask address the doubts and criticisms that I have picked up on the internet. For example, a very controversial question is if the E-Cat can be considered safe. ROSSI - The 10-kW modules we produce are safe and for years now we have been testing and using them with no problems. All possible measures of radiation from the reactor have been taken and the modules have always demonstrated the utmost safety. We control it as we want, switching it on and switching it off and we get power on and power off. It can never exceed a certain power because we have designed it so that there can be no Nickel-Hydrogen reaction above the safety limits and, above all, there is no radiation outside of the reactor significantly over the background level. It is true that with our current state of knowledge we do not know what would happen if we started scaling up the reactor from 10KW to 1000KW. In fact, we take care not to do so. To obtain higher power production we combine the modules in series and parallel, as if they were batteries. A 10 KW reactor connecting in parallel increases the amount of energy produced at a constant temperature and putting them in series multiplies the amount of energy produced at increasing temperature, because you multiply the TD. Combining the two architectures, parallel and series, you can get what you want and stay strictly in the same safety parameters. 22PASSI - We always talk about thermal power, right? ROSSI - yes, when converting to other forms of energy there will be a loss of efficiency. In the Carnot cycle efficiency is usually between 30% and 35% depending on the efficiency of the system, this means that if we convert 1MW of thermal power we can get 300-350 kW electric and thermal energy. 22PASSI - Then we could produce both heat and electricity at the same time.. ROSSI - With the Carnot cycle this is so. Of course nothing is created and nothing is destroyed: the energy balance should be 100. However, if out of 100KW of heat 35 KW of heat was converted into electricity and the other 65KW of heat remained, then you would lose a few percentage points in conversion. In summary, if the E-Cat provides only thermal power directly, only a heat exchanger is needed and you're done. If you need electricity only a portion of the thermal energy can be transformed into electricity, but you will also have the heat that remains. 22PASSI. Then a small village of 50-100 families with a 1 MW unit could be made more energy independent in terms of heating and electricity. ROSSI. Ah yes, this certainly. 22PASSI - If I understand correctly, once enough power is given to the reactor to ignite (in Bologna there was talk of 1-2kW), in this setup the machine might operate autonomously, without a power outlet or battery as the power input (on the order of 0.4 kW / h) is well within the approximately 3.5 kW electricity obtainable. ROSSI - Certainly. There remains, however, the problem of the drive (control system) that is still a little more complex: each reactor has implemented an electrical drive for safety reasons and much be attached to a current line. Precisely because of these controls, we can ensure that there are no safety problems inherent in our E-Cat from 10 kW, as well in our unit from 1MW, consisting of 100 reactors from 10kW each of which has it
