Re: Fun with magnets; was RE: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Be very careful with these. Ideally you'll need a special workshop with only > non-magnetic materials around, such as titanium tools, and wooden > workbenches, no computers, disk drives, credit cards, etc. nearby, and > practice being aware of what you're doing. Actually, you missed the most import item to beware of: your watch. I have worked around some strong NdFeB mags and never worry about disk drives and credit cards. I wouldn't sit on a 900 lb NdFeB magnet with my cards in my wallet; but, I haven't had one damaged while working within a couple of feet of some large N50s. And disk drives are no problem at all. Indeed, hard drives have a NdFeB magnet within them. The static field which drives the read/write head is a rare earth magnet. Note, these drives are a great source for Mumetal, a high permeability metal used to shield the magnet from the drive platen. When we demonstrate the Sprain motor we always ask everyone to remove those items, however. Just to be safe. Wouldn't want to be responsible for damaging one of these: http://www.patek.com/patek-philippe.html And I have seen a couple of these on some investors. Yikes! An interesting note: we have a keeper shelf where we store whole and pieces of magnets. Most of what we worked with in the past were N35s. Recently, one worker was moving a N50 near the shelf when a fragment jumped almost a meter off the shelf and imbedded in his hand. He learned the difference between a N50 and a N35 the hard way. :-) Terry
Fun with magnets; was RE: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
I have been doing many experiments with magnets recently, and have hundreds of the most powerful magnets available from e.g. http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/index.php http://www.supermagnetman.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NdFeB#Other_dangers http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX0X0X0 http://www.magnet4sale.com/home.php http://www.unitednuclear.com/magnets.htm If you haven't experienced these rare earth magnets, I think you'll be in for some surprises! Be very careful with these. Ideally you'll need a special workshop with only non-magnetic materials around, such as titanium tools, and wooden workbenches, no computers, disk drives, credit cards, etc. nearby, and practice being aware of what you're doing. You must constantly think about what you're doing, as if you're carrying around U235 or nitroglycerine ( I know, I've had numerous close calls, pinched fingers, and shattered magnets, sucking up tools from a foot away, getting stuck to a vise, etc. ). The forces can be in tons for two magnets with 1.2 Tesla flux densities (12000 Gauss) at their surfaces. I've had to build a special tool to separate two magnets that got accidentally got stuck together: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/buildamagnetseparator.asp Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US http://HoytStearns.com
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
>From Terry Blanton: > I think this issue was addressed by an experiment in fizzx.com, a > spin-off of the Steorn forum. It would have been in one of the > Whipmag threads. If I have time today, I'll see if I can find it. Much appreciated, Terry. Let us know if you find the appropriate links. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
I think this issue was addressed by an experiment in fizzx.com, a spin-off of the Steorn forum. It would have been in one of the Whipmag threads. If I have time today, I'll see if I can find it. Terry On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:12 PM, OrionWorks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I hope I am posing this question concerning the characteristics of > magnetic properties using proper terminology. My apologies up front if > not. > > The following two questions are related to each other: > > (1) Does anyone know how fast magnetic viscosity on average tends to > propagate (or cycle) through various kinds of permanent magnetic > material? Hundredths of a second? Milliseconds? Microseconds? Faster > or slower??? > > (2) Is it theoretically possible to generate a viscosity induced > HARMONIC frequency in a permanent magnet. I'm speculating on whether > an amplified harmonic effect could be generated by a carefully applied > external frequency, such as an external EM field set to a specific > frequency, or perhaps through an assembly of rapidly spinning > permanent magnets such as one finds in a spinning wheel. I'm > speculating on whether it's possible if certain externally induced EM > frequencies might enhance the viscotic migratory effect within certain > permanent magnet materials. > > It's analogous to how lasers produce light through a buildup of > specific EM harmonic frequencies within the crystal that ultimately > produces a strong coherent beam of light. > > > PERSONAL THOUGHTS: > > If specific harmonic magnetic viscosity fields can be "enhanced" or > possibly amplified within certain PM materials the implications could > be interesting. > > One of the reason's I'm posing this question in Vortex is that there > are various You-tube videos I've seen out in the public domain that > hint (at least to me) of the possibility that the user may have > accidentally stumbled across for a brief period of time just the right > magnetic viscosity induced frequency that caused their magnetic > assembly/contraption to spin up for a few brief dramatic seconds. > However, because they really don't know what they are doing it's all > very unstable and soon the assembly eventually gets out-of-phase, > harmonically speaking, causing the assembly to grind to a halt. > > From what I can tell, visually speaking, I don't think the sudden > rotational increase is due to an unconscious manual "pumping" of the > PMs introduced (unintentionally) into the configuration by the user. > The "spinning" I've seen occurs where the user is no longer manually > influencing the configuration. The contraption is spinning freely on > its own for a few brief seconds. > > Of course, this is all just conjecture on my part. > > Regards > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > >
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
>From Hoyt: > Very interesting speculation. Thanks. > > From tests I have done, Sv can be from microseconds to seconds depending on > the material. It's on the order of a millisecond for Nd2Fe14B. > > Hoyt Stearns Thanks, Hoyt, >From microseconds to seconds. Wow! That's a huge range! I would seem logical to assume that the majority of the Neodymium family of PMs would share, roughly speaking, the same viscotic characteristics - on the order of a millisecond or so. This is just a guess on my part, but I would speculate that ferric and ceramic PMs are likely to cycle much more slowly than Neodymium PMs - on the order approaching a second. I wonder if the size of the PM can make a difference as well. Would you agree, or not. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
Very interesting speculation. Thanks. >From tests I have done, Sv can be from microseconds to seconds depending on the material. It's on the order of a millisecond for Nd2Fe14B. Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US http://HoytStearns.com -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:13 PM To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency I hope I am posing this question concerning the characteristics of magnetic properties using proper terminology. My apologies up front if not. The following two questions are related to each other: (1) Does anyone know how fast magnetic viscosity on average tends to propagate (or cycle) through various kinds of permanent magnetic material? Hundredths of a second? Milliseconds? Microseconds? Faster or slower???
[Vo]:Magnetic viscosity question: generating a harmonic frequency
I hope I am posing this question concerning the characteristics of magnetic properties using proper terminology. My apologies up front if not. The following two questions are related to each other: (1) Does anyone know how fast magnetic viscosity on average tends to propagate (or cycle) through various kinds of permanent magnetic material? Hundredths of a second? Milliseconds? Microseconds? Faster or slower??? (2) Is it theoretically possible to generate a viscosity induced HARMONIC frequency in a permanent magnet. I'm speculating on whether an amplified harmonic effect could be generated by a carefully applied external frequency, such as an external EM field set to a specific frequency, or perhaps through an assembly of rapidly spinning permanent magnets such as one finds in a spinning wheel. I'm speculating on whether it's possible if certain externally induced EM frequencies might enhance the viscotic migratory effect within certain permanent magnet materials. It's analogous to how lasers produce light through a buildup of specific EM harmonic frequencies within the crystal that ultimately produces a strong coherent beam of light. PERSONAL THOUGHTS: If specific harmonic magnetic viscosity fields can be "enhanced" or possibly amplified within certain PM materials the implications could be interesting. One of the reason's I'm posing this question in Vortex is that there are various You-tube videos I've seen out in the public domain that hint (at least to me) of the possibility that the user may have accidentally stumbled across for a brief period of time just the right magnetic viscosity induced frequency that caused their magnetic assembly/contraption to spin up for a few brief dramatic seconds. However, because they really don't know what they are doing it's all very unstable and soon the assembly eventually gets out-of-phase, harmonically speaking, causing the assembly to grind to a halt. >From what I can tell, visually speaking, I don't think the sudden rotational increase is due to an unconscious manual "pumping" of the PMs introduced (unintentionally) into the configuration by the user. The "spinning" I've seen occurs where the user is no longer manually influencing the configuration. The contraption is spinning freely on its own for a few brief seconds. Of course, this is all just conjecture on my part. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
They *must* use resonance in a solid state version. This is what had kept bothering me was the subtle hints of a solid state ORBO (realORBOllocks). I believe that using a cross-field interference alignment they can maximize the domain flip efficiency. H. There should be an optimum frequency for spinon depletion that could be determined. Or maybe that is not domain-related. You know that Sean denied Barkhausen effect played any part in his technology. However, Barkhausen domain flipping and renormalization is the "calculus" of magnetic viscosity. Regarding the Chladni Plate, here's a HUGE coincidence. My other hobby involves the Knights Templer (long before the DaVinci Code, BTW) and you can see how the mystery musical codes of Rosslyn Chapel are explained on the video on this site: http://www.tjmitchell.com/stuart/rosslyn.html (scroll down). The images are just those resonant images you referenced!!! Terry On 5/6/07, Esa Ruoho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: this seems very interesting! youve given me a lot of places to go into, and ive added Barkhausen and Rutherford onto the PESWiki timeline ( http://peswiki.com/index.php/Timeline ). now im looking at Harvard University pictures of Chladni Plates, and saw even an electromagnetic Chladni Plate -- what i wouldnt give to see videos of these: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/OscillationsWaves/BigChladniPlate/BigChladniPlate.html http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/OscillationsWaves/ChladniPlates/ChladniPlates.html waoohoo! do you reckon steorn will be also utilizing resonance in the tuning of their machine? On 06/05/07, Terry Blanton < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 5/6/07, Esa Ruoho < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > what about stochastic resonance then? > > Rutherford Berkhausen & Steorn. > > No, not the latest law firm; nor, a new wave band. However it *is* > helping me to understand what these Irish laddies are talking about. > > Rutherford essentially defined magnetic viscosity in his second paper. > Barkhausen fairly explained the cause and showed how domain flipping > causes magnetic noise. The propagation of domain flipping is the > cause of MV. Steorn has now found a way to take an advantage of the > propagation of domain flipping. > > At first I did not believe that you could build a solid state magnetic > energy source; but, I think I could bloody well do it with adequate > resources. > > Well done! > > Terry > > -- ∞
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
this seems very interesting! youve given me a lot of places to go into, and ive added Barkhausen and Rutherford onto the PESWiki timeline ( http://peswiki.com/index.php/Timeline ). now im looking at Harvard University pictures of Chladni Plates, and saw even an electromagnetic Chladni Plate -- what i wouldnt give to see videos of these: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/OscillationsWaves/BigChladniPlate/BigChladniPlate.html http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/OscillationsWaves/ChladniPlates/ChladniPlates.html waoohoo! do you reckon steorn will be also utilizing resonance in the tuning of their machine? On 06/05/07, Terry Blanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 5/6/07, Esa Ruoho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > what about stochastic resonance then? Rutherford Berkhausen & Steorn. No, not the latest law firm; nor, a new wave band. However it *is* helping me to understand what these Irish laddies are talking about. Rutherford essentially defined magnetic viscosity in his second paper. Barkhausen fairly explained the cause and showed how domain flipping causes magnetic noise. The propagation of domain flipping is the cause of MV. Steorn has now found a way to take an advantage of the propagation of domain flipping. At first I did not believe that you could build a solid state magnetic energy source; but, I think I could bloody well do it with adequate resources. Well done! Terry -- ∞
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
On 5/6/07, Esa Ruoho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: what about stochastic resonance then? Rutherford Berkhausen & Steorn. No, not the latest law firm; nor, a new wave band. However it *is* helping me to understand what these Irish laddies are talking about. Rutherford essentially defined magnetic viscosity in his second paper. Barkhausen fairly explained the cause and showed how domain flipping causes magnetic noise. The propagation of domain flipping is the cause of MV. Steorn has now found a way to take an advantage of the propagation of domain flipping. At first I did not believe that you could build a solid state magnetic energy source; but, I think I could bloody well do it with adequate resources. Well done! Terry
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
what about stochastic resonance then? On 05/05/07, Terry Blanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is it conceivable that Barkhausen noise could provide a source of quantum energy? Terry On 5/5/07, Terry Blanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sean McCarthy dropped this term again today: > > http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=57711&page=1#Item_17 > > http://snipurl.com/1jgm1 > > about how his technology works. Isn't this the same as hysteresis? > > Terry > > -- ∞
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
Terry Blanton wrote: Sean McCarthy dropped this term again today: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=57711&page=1#Item_17 http://snipurl.com/1jgm1 about how his technology works. Isn't this the same as hysteresis? Yah, or an answer to the burning question, does Steoran's technology work, any demonstrations yet? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
Paul Lowrance wrote: Terry Blanton wrote: Sean McCarthy dropped this term again today: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=57711&page=1#Item_17 http://snipurl.com/1jgm1 about how his technology works. Isn't this the same as hysteresis? Terry I was taught it's different than hysteresis. Magnetic viscosity is frequency related. It's simply magnetic lag. The electron spins in the material don't change instantly when the applied field changes. Example, say an applied field is saturating the core to 99.9%. Then within 1 ns the applied field is completely removed. Most magnetic cores cannot react that fast. So it might take 100 ns for the core to change from %99.9 saturation to 10% saturation. Regards, Paul Lowrance but that's the mechanism of magnetic refigeration. If it's that simple the people doing magnetic refrigeration will have a fit.
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
On 5/5/07, Paul Lowrance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was taught it's different than hysteresis. Magnetic viscosity is frequency related. It's simply magnetic lag. The electron spins in the material don't change instantly when the applied field changes. Okay, for a fixed field strength, it takes time for the field density to catch up, so to speak; hence, "viscosity". Whereas, hysteresis relates to varying applied field strength. So, Steorn claims that their technology takes advantage of magnetic domain alignment time lag. Terry
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
Terry Blanton wrote: Sean McCarthy dropped this term again today: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=57711&page=1#Item_17 http://snipurl.com/1jgm1 about how his technology works. Isn't this the same as hysteresis? Terry I was taught it's different than hysteresis. Magnetic viscosity is frequency related. It's simply magnetic lag. The electron spins in the material don't change instantly when the applied field changes. Example, say an applied field is saturating the core to 99.9%. Then within 1 ns the applied field is completely removed. Most magnetic cores cannot react that fast. So it might take 100 ns for the core to change from %99.9 saturation to 10% saturation. Regards, Paul Lowrance
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
Is it conceivable that Barkhausen noise could provide a source of quantum energy? Terry On 5/5/07, Terry Blanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sean McCarthy dropped this term again today: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=57711&page=1#Item_17 http://snipurl.com/1jgm1 about how his technology works. Isn't this the same as hysteresis? Terry
[Vo]:Magnetic Viscosity
Sean McCarthy dropped this term again today: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=57711&page=1#Item_17 http://snipurl.com/1jgm1 about how his technology works. Isn't this the same as hysteresis? Terry
[Vo]: Magnetic viscosity questions
I first heard about magnetic viscosity (V[s])a few weeks ago. As I understand it, there's a time delay in ferromagnetic materials between an applied H field and the corresponding B field (and in reverse also -- removing the H field). If I spin a magnet over a ferromagnetic disc (assume non-conductive), I would think that without magnetic viscosity, it would just be attracted to the magnet as if it weren't spinning. With viscosity, I'd expect an angular difference between the magnet's flux lines and the induced flux in the disc. As the speed increases, it seems the phase angle would exceed 90 degrees and the disc would be repelled. Has that been observed? What materials have the highest V[s]? Thanks, Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US
