Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:55:58 -0700: Hi, See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoluminescence_dating, though I'm not sure why you want this. A more obvious solution is to catch the initial light with a solar panel, convert the energy to chemical energy and store it as long as you want. >Thanks for the info Robin... I forgot about slow light; and I think there was >an article in the last >6 months about a group of researchers actually stopping light. That's a >little too "beam me up" for >my taste. But my original posting was this: > "Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and > controllably release >photons?" > >The key phrase being "controllably release"... > >Then I read your second post about phosphorescence and wiki'd it, and it seems >there are some >substances that release their 'trapped' photon energy in minutes to hours... >That's not bad, but >nowhere did it indicate that this release was controllable. It was controlled >by the "throw the >dice" quantum mechanical probabilities bullpucky... > >And John Berry's suggestion of using a black hole, although thought provoking, >isn't really >practical. Not too many black holes close by, thank effect; insert favorite >deity here>. > >-Mark > > >-----Original Message- >From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] >Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:54 PM >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective... > >In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:29:14 -0700: >Hi, >[snip] >>So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that >>"kind of, sort of," acts like a photonic battery, there really isn't >>any commercial or practical product with reasonable functionality... >> >>Thx! >> >>-Mark > >BTW - all phosphorescent materials are essentially photonic batteries. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 >05:55:00 >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 >05:55:00 > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
Thanks for the info Robin... I forgot about slow light; and I think there was an article in the last 6 months about a group of researchers actually stopping light. That's a little too "beam me up" for my taste. But my original posting was this: "Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and controllably release photons?" The key phrase being "controllably release"... Then I read your second post about phosphorescence and wiki'd it, and it seems there are some substances that release their 'trapped' photon energy in minutes to hours... That's not bad, but nowhere did it indicate that this release was controllable. It was controlled by the "throw the dice" quantum mechanical probabilities bullpucky... And John Berry's suggestion of using a black hole, although thought provoking, isn't really practical. Not too many black holes close by, thank . -Mark -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective... In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:29:14 -0700: Hi, [snip] >So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that >"kind of, sort of," acts like a photonic battery, there really isn't >any commercial or practical product with reasonable functionality... > >Thx! > >-Mark BTW - all phosphorescent materials are essentially photonic batteries. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 05:55:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 05:55:00
Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
How about a black hole? Simply shoot a laser so the light gets captured in a stable orbit around it, with the time dilation as an added bonus the light should last a good long time, "simply" maneuver a mirror in place to extract the light. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM, wrote: > In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:29:14 -0700: > Hi, > [snip] > >So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that > "kind of, sort of," acts like > >a photonic battery, there really isn't any commercial or practical product > with reasonable > >functionality... > > > >Thx! > > > >-Mark > > BTW - all phosphorescent materials are essentially photonic batteries. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html > >
Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:29:14 -0700: Hi, [snip] >So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that "kind >of, sort of," acts like >a photonic battery, there really isn't any commercial or practical product >with reasonable >functionality... > >Thx! > >-Mark BTW - all phosphorescent materials are essentially photonic batteries. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:29:14 -0700: Hi, [snip] >So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that "kind >of, sort of," acts like >a photonic battery, there really isn't any commercial or practical product >with reasonable >functionality... > >Thx! > >-Mark Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_light . I have a vague recollection of someone having stopped it altogether, which essentially resulted in the creation of what you are looking for. This is another example of real life following SF. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
Mark - The orbitsphere can be a bit more than a "kind of" analogy for a photonic battery. (the more you think about the implications, that is) . which battery probably cannot exist on a scale above atomic anyway (well, perhaps molecular). but that distinction can be meaningless, since everything in life builds on the atomic structure. I presume you did not want to digress into an metaphysical discourse at this juncture, so moving on to capitalism. . anyway, as for commercialization. ?? one very interesting potential "product" which is actually mentioned in Mills' patent but would be easy to get around, since he never reduced it to practice (if you are so inclined) can be called the "ultra-efficient light source". A commercial product, using the fractional ground state of hydrogen - might look like a regular flashlight but would give approximately 10^6 times more light per unit of weight than a normal flashlight (based on Mills claims being accurate and factoring in the inefficiency of batteries and bulbs ). It might cost the consumer the same multiple, however , -) so who will buy it? Probably the same people who buy Lear Jets. Such a "photonic battery" would first covert (reform) a liquid fuel like ethanol, in order to provide hydrogen (the photon carrier) but in a "reversible fuel cell." Most fuel cells are reversible to either produce current or to use current to split water as you know. This reversibility would make an interesting version of the 'tank circuit' one can surmise. In so doing - hydrinos can be formed on electrodes, if the device incoporates a proper Mills' catalyst . at least according to him. Much of the DC current used is thereby returned, when the cell is designed to do this kind of flip-flop - i.e. when you only care about light emission and nothing else. For use as this kind of light source, the cathode would need to be arranged externally in a transparent containment structure, or in a fashion so that the UV light which is emitted on its surface can be focused and used - by first being downshifted to the visible range and then emitted as a strong beam. That is actually far less of a problem to imagine than finding a large market for $100,000 flashlights that run for a few months on a bottle of Stoli From: Mark Iverson [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that "kind of, sort of," acts like a photonic battery, there really isn't any commercial or practical product with reasonable functionality... Thx! -Mark _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:58 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective... I think you are stuck on the wrong geometric scale, John. All macro mirrors are lossy, but pico mirrors can be lossless . The implications of Mills' CQM is that the "orbitsphere" which is the electron orbital, effectively "captures" and retains photons of various energy levels. In effect, the OS is a "mirrored photon container." Jones From: John Berry A florescent substance in a mirrored container perhaps? A solar cell, a battery, a circuit and an LED bulb? A tree/forrest (burn it, put it out, re igntie it, allow photosynthisis to do it's thing). If IR light then any black object will absorb and re-radiate, again stick it n a mirrored box to keep it 'charged'. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Jones Beene wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission -Original Message- From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Hollins I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im in. I'd be interested in this as well. My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum seam it. 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and controllably release photons? > > -Mark > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.61/2167 - Release Date: 06/10/09 05:52:00
Re: RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
A fibre optic cable in a closed loop? harry - Original Message - From: Mark Iverson Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:29 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective... > So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists > that "kind of, sort of," acts like > a photonic battery, there really isn't any commercial or practical > product with reasonable > functionality... > > Thx! > > -Mark > > _ > > From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:58 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective... > > > > I think you are stuck on the wrong geometric scale, John. > > > > All macro mirrors are lossy, but pico mirrors can be lossless . > > > > The implications of Mills’ CQM is that the “orbitsphere” which is > the electron orbital, effectively > “captures” and retains photons of various energy levels. > > > > In effect, the OS is a “mirrored photon container.” > > > > Jones > > > > > > > > > > From: John Berry > > > > A florescent substance in a mirrored container perhaps? > > A solar cell, a battery, a circuit and an LED bulb? > > A tree/forrest (burn it, put it out, re igntie it, allow > photosynthisis to do it's thing). > > If IR light then any black object will absorb and re-radiate, again > stick it n a mirrored box to > keep it 'charged'. > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Jones Beene > wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > AlexanderHollins > > I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought > experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im > in. I'd be interested in this as well. > > My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible > inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching > but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum > seam it. > > 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and > controllably release photons? > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.61/2167 - Release Date: > 06/10/09 05:52:00 > > >
RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
So, to summarize, although some physical/atomic phenomenon exists that "kind of, sort of," acts like a photonic battery, there really isn't any commercial or practical product with reasonable functionality... Thx! -Mark _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:58 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective... I think you are stuck on the wrong geometric scale, John. All macro mirrors are lossy, but pico mirrors can be lossless . The implications of Mills’ CQM is that the “orbitsphere” which is the electron orbital, effectively “captures” and retains photons of various energy levels. In effect, the OS is a “mirrored photon container.” Jones From: John Berry A florescent substance in a mirrored container perhaps? A solar cell, a battery, a circuit and an LED bulb? A tree/forrest (burn it, put it out, re igntie it, allow photosynthisis to do it's thing). If IR light then any black object will absorb and re-radiate, again stick it n a mirrored box to keep it 'charged'. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Jones Beene wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission -Original Message- From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Hollins I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im in. I'd be interested in this as well. My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum seam it. 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and controllably release photons? > > -Mark > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.61/2167 - Release Date: 06/10/09 05:52:00
RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
I think you are stuck on the wrong geometric scale, John. All macro mirrors are lossy, but pico mirrors can be lossless . The implications of Mills' CQM is that the "orbitsphere" which is the electron orbital, effectively "captures" and retains photons of various energy levels. In effect, the OS is a "mirrored photon container." Jones From: John Berry A florescent substance in a mirrored container perhaps? A solar cell, a battery, a circuit and an LED bulb? A tree/forrest (burn it, put it out, re igntie it, allow photosynthisis to do it's thing). If IR light then any black object will absorb and re-radiate, again stick it n a mirrored box to keep it 'charged'. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Jones Beene wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission -Original Message- From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Hollins I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im in. I'd be interested in this as well. My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum seam it. 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and controllably release photons? > > -Mark > > >
Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
A florescent substance in a mirrored container perhaps? A solar cell, a battery, a circuit and an LED bulb? A tree/forrest (burn it, put it out, re igntie it, allow photosynthisis to do it's thing). If IR light then any black object will absorb and re-radiate, again stick it n a mirrored box to keep it 'charged'. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > Alexander > Hollins > > I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought > experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im > in. I'd be interested in this as well. > > My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible > inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching > but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum > seam it. > > 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and > controllably release photons? > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > >
RE: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission -Original Message- From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Hollins I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im in. I'd be interested in this as well. My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum seam it. 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and controllably release photons? > > -Mark > > >
Re: [Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
I've mentally tried to create something similar for a thought experiement for a device to store sunlight for a roleplaying game im in. I'd be interested in this as well. My thought concept was a sphere, as perfectly mirrored as possible inside, but of a material similar to two way glass, so that a matching but opposite piece in physical contact allows passage of light. vacuum seam it. 2009/6/10 Mark Iverson : > > Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and > controllably release photons? > > -Mark > > >
[Vo]:Question for the Vort collective...
Has anyone heard of a 'photonic battery'... i.e., a way to store and controllably release photons? -Mark
