Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
> His failures are waaay past 'E' in the alphabet. ..well as someone up to hexadecimal figures i maybe have a low bar; whatevs, SOMETHING's going down next Thursday so don't forget to cast a weary eye that way even if you're not stocking up on popcorn (me neither, honestly). One or two contributors on ECW are planning calorimeters for when they can get their hands on a magic lamp.. Rossi for his part a) won't give I/O energy efficiency in terms of total radiative flux, and b) has expressed doubt that excess heat would be measured anyway, in spite of the seemingly-incredible lm/W figures claimed. That's re. the SKLED, an actual (potential) product (1M pre-orders notwithstanding); he'll also apparently be showing a PoC of what's provisionally dubbed 'SKLEP', a general-purpose PSU, though i've no idea if it's a closed system or runs off the mains for 'reasons' etc., all a case of wait'n'see eh. But considering the flux of quantum entropies implicit to the nature of Pauli exclusion and known electron condensation regimes - ie. the fact that aggregate-scale condensation of like-polarised electron spins could in principle cause extreme fluctuations in Fermi numbers - it does seem a novel potential means of harnessing an effective daemon.. Like all good X files, at least in the 'OU' section, all the most tantalising evidence is purely circumstantial for now. But just this old nugget from ML's interview with Fabiani has GOT to give anyone interested a semi: https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/ "As a skeptic I started there, and in the beginning Rossi wouldn’t let me see any data. Gradually he gained confidence since I solved a few problems. And after some time I found myself with the truth in my hands, having made some calculations, and I was amazed. I made the same calculations twenty times and I tried to find the error, but there was no error." “Now after seeing everything that Rossi is doing, and the levels at which we have arrived, there really is no error, but already at that time he saw things that ordinary people were not yet able to see." “Either you have seen this from the start, or you have to remain puzzled. If you’re skeptical, then until you have a 100 percent proof, until the hammer hits your finger, you won’t believe that your adversary has a hammer." "I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine." This implies there's a functioning - if largely novel - theoretical framework underpinning the research and whatever results he may be trying to peddle.. ie. you can calculate gains from first principles if you know which parameters to juggle.. Frank Acland (ECW's sysop) visited Rossi last week and seems chipper, if tight-lipped, about the prognosis.. like i say, all circumstantial tho.
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 9:21 AM Vibrator ! wrote: > Rossi's 'E' day's coming up fast - under a fortnight now. > His failures are waaay past 'E' in the alphabet.
RE: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Hi Bob, cheers for the thoughts but it obvs wasn't really a serious exercise - the bosonic nature of the D2 molecule and nucleus, along with the high magnetic moment of Ni as a potential short-range polarising factor just seemed to offer up a possibly-fertile axis of coherence; scaling up might simply widen the goalposts for longer-wavelength virtual particle interactions causing longer-range couplings - the central conceit being that D2 is just inherently more 'volatile' to such spontaneous coherences owing to its natural integer atomic solutions.. almost as tinder for igniting the real fire, which basically reduces to a doubtless-naive attempt to generalise Rossi's theory.. Rossi's OU theory i distilled from his paper (of course) helped along with hints from replies on his JONP that seemed to jell in a consistent direction. At some point last year he mentioned that high-dv/dt impulses were key to stimulating the energy gain conditions, and a few weeks later i realised this was most likely an allusion to the principle technique for generating so-called 'cold plasmas', AKA non-thermal or non-equilibrium plasmas. These are fascinating systems on multiple levels; there's a new frontier here of unexplored terrain, if all uphill - racing through a whole series of closing doors, brief windows of opportunity for forcing a system to adopt novel configurations through shear thermodynamic expediencies of the practicalities of quantisation and the finite time requirements of certain entropic processes such as thermal dissipation. Yet for all their potential novelty, cold plasma are arguably TRUE 'plasmas' in the literal sense, simply due to the fact that their high self-reactivity - reminiscent of that of blood plasma - was the reason that name was borrowed for this 'new state of matter' in the first place; the researchers noticed these exotic self-reactive species being spontaneously generated, were reminded of phages and t-cells or whatevs in blood plasma.. and that's how the name 'plasma' actually came about. Thus you might say cold plasmas are plasmas 'of the first kind' - the thermal plasmas with which we're more familiar are really kind of tagging along on the eponym, there.. ..but i digress; short-width EMF's can selectively energise electrons over ions (owing to the 1836x mass ratio) and thus very little energy, artfully applied, can superheat the electron population of a contained plasma to such temperatures that their thermal phase begins to find resonant modes with their zitterbewegung phase, providing an axis of quantum-classical coherence facilitating long-range Cooper-type couplings of like-polarised electrons to merge spins and so phase-transition to a bosonic state, sharing Fermi numbers.. Usually only complimentary pairs of electrons can share the same quantum energy state - this is why the shell-filling formula's 2n² - but short time-frame manipulations can raise sufficiently-extreme conditions that like-polarised couplings become not just viable but preferable as the lowest-possible energy or entropy configuration. But these circumstances set up an inherent proposition: push this concept to its logical conclusion, and in principle from an initial population of say 1e9 free electrons you could aim to cause all of them to collapse into a single condensate sharing a unitary quantum state, ie. with a Fermi number converging towards '1'. For this, you'd need to super-heat the population uniformly, preventing hotspots from forming and cooking off prematurely (since once a phase transition's initiated it sucks all further input energy), which means allowing sufficient time for input EMF's to dissipate between the electron population, but all while racing against the inevitable dissipation of energy to the ion population, which we want to remain as cool as possible. So, a technical tight-rope to walk, yet there it is.. Get it right and electron condensates precipitate out, nucleating around the slow & heavy protons to form these exotic 'picometric aggregates', having an emission line consistent with the precessional magnetic moment of a protium-nucleated thermo-ZBW condensate. If up-down couplings could in principle halve Fermi numbers of a given electron population, aggregate coherent up-up and down-down couplings would, in principle, cause even more precipitous drops in system entropy - in principle converging to a unitary boson condensing from a super-critical state - thus vacating quantum energy states that will inevitably be lower than those of surrounding environmental free electrons, which instantaneously drop down into these freed-up lower quantum energy states as they become available.. ..when these transient coherences then collapse, the vacuum has to re-assign unique states to all fermions departing the former quasi-boson, in the same instant.. all of their former states now reoccupied by environmental dissipation of quantum entropy.. hence they must necessarily be assigned
RE: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Questions for Vibrator: VIBRATOR— 1. To clarify your comments Re the Thermocore Ni / H runaway reaction, a good physical model of the VACUUM is warranted. 2. 2. I think you are suggesting that the Rossi SKL reactor is a dusty plasma of Bosons and Fermions of discrete entangled systems—I am not certain at all.\3. 3. I so agree that increase of entropy among a population of closed say stems entails transfer of enthalpy per the 2nd law of TH. 4. Small quantities of Ni powder and H should runaway also, unless t size of the various Ni crystals is insufficient to heat the other particles to reacting phonic resonant spin quanta-angular momentum. 5. A magnetic field applied to the reactants may allow better control of the phase changes of the various QM systems’ spin energy states. Bob Cook From: Vibrator !<mailto:mrvibrat...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 7:13 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-L@eskimo.com> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? In light of Rossi's apparent lead i'd be looking at the possibility of spontaneous formation of novel condensates. The D2 diatomic molecule being a boson presents an obvious soft target for aligning spins to cohere into shared lower-energy quantum states, the different magnetic moments of the electron and nucleus of the deuterium atom passing through the high magnetic moments of the Ni powder might cause some degree of polarisation and/or phase coherence, etc. - the basic idea being to cultivate an optimal fluctuation in Fermi numbers / system entropy relative to surrounding environmental free electrons (such as in the reactor casing, say), which may adopt the lower-energy quantum states vacated by the formation of the condensates; thus forcing the vacuum to assign higher Fermi numbers / quantum energy states to any fermions exiting a collapsing condensate than they initially carried into it. This manifests as an exothermic gain accumulating over many such cycles.. ..until thermal phase begins to approach resonant modes with certain quantum phases (such as the zitterbewegung phase), resulting in further quantum-classical coherence and allowing like-polarised electrons to begin sharing Fermi numbers, so adopting the lowest available energy state but also causing precipitous fluctuations in system entropy relative to the environment, surrounding free electrons instantly co-opting lower Fermi numbers as they become available, and so causing the vacuum to assign necessarily-higher quantum energy states to fermions exiting transiently-coherent quasi-bosonic states and yadda yadda runaway feedback loop. Vacuum / ZP energy, bashically, a la EM OU - the accelerated / heated fermions exiting the meta-stable bosonic states being impelled by a flux of positive h-bar endowed by virtual photons corralled from vacuum per QED - ie. the actual form of the gain being normal Coulomb repulsion between decohering fermions, albeit with vacuum-inflated quantum energy states. LENR effects may be epiphenomenal to the common energy gain principle, an almost incidental artefact of spontaneous long-range coupling between nuclei immersed in a matrix of coherent quasi-bosons allowing them to interact in some sense as if already within one another's proton radii, presumably conserving baryon number if not initial disposition (again, a different kind of effective Coulomb exploit). The key dynamic would simply be that transiently-stable shared lower-energy quantum states free up Fermi numbers that any environmental fermions in higher energy states will automatically drop down into, necessitating the assigning of higher Fermi numbers to those departing these shared states, thus energising these collapses with an extra kick of ambient h-bar from vacuum. This is basically what Rossi's doing via contained cold plasmas - time-critical selective-energisation of electrons over ions causing like-polasrised condensates of the former to precipitate out onto the latter, forming transiently-stable structures with an emission line consistent with the precessional moment of a protium-nucleated thermo-ZBW condensate; decoherence of which (reinstating Pauli exclusion) yields excess energy, the cycle requiring cool-off time to prevent ions gaining thermal equilibrium with electrons (via normal dissipation), hence a discontinuous / pulsed cycle, in order to maintain the formative 'non-thermal plasma' state for consistently culturing these exotic self-reactive species and the huge fluctuations in internal vs ambient entropy / quantum energy states their concerted phase transitions apply. Crucially, the system remains thermodynamically open to (and dependent upon) the environmental exchange of entropy, 2LoT itself putting the vacuum in a bind, which then HAS to assign higher energy states to decohering fermions due to their formerly-vacated states having been reoccupied the ins
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
MSF wrote: Jones, is there a link where we could access your monel metal experiments? Years ago, I did a lot of CF experiments using cupronickel in an unusual form. These were successful, but the results were inconsistent for reasons that are obvious when you know my procedure. I am not a scientist, so I have no written records of my methods, but I think I should write up a brief description of what I did giving anyone who is interested to try the same. The discussion on this thread about iron oxide as a catalyst might explain why my technique appeared to work.-- Michael, our final report for the ARPA-E grant should be available on their website under the corporate name, which is Space Orbital Systems. The work was done at SRI by Ron Clark and myself. The focus was methane conversion - into liquid fuel. At that time ARPA was not funding LENR. https://arpa-e.energy.gov/technologies/projects/low-temperature-methane-conversion-through-impacting-common-alloy-catalysts The thermal anomaly using monel catalyst was outside the scope of our original grant, and not included in the final report. In retrospect, we should have tried for follow-on funding based on that anomaly but at that particular time, the Administration was trying to get rid of ARPA-E altogether and we didn't go for it. There seems to be plenty of money available now from ARPA-E and they are interested in splitting water efficiently among other things. Others (Celani, Clean Planet) have had success with copper-nickel alloys. If Mills is to be believed, a small addition of molybdenum would be interesting as everything builds on the initial drop in his theory. JB
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Jones, is there a link where we could access your monel metal experiments? Years ago, I did a lot of CF experiments using cupronickel in an unusual form. These were successful, but the results were inconsistent for reasons that are obvious when you know my procedure. I am not a scientist, so I have no written records of my methods, but I think I should write up a brief description of what I did giving anyone who is interested to try the same. The discussion on this thread about iron oxide as a catalyst might explain why my technique appeared to work.
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
On 2021-11-23 17:44, Jones Beene wrote: Thanks for remembering this experiment from Simon Brink ! The effect is surprisingly large and my bet is that it only works well with 316 grade SS. If so - that would be good evidence for Mills' theory and the importance of the lowest energy catalyst. Nickel alone should not work as well. As you suggest, eliminating color change should be attempted but for those who follow Holmlid, another wrinkle would be using a laser pointer To clarify, I've personally often observed plain steel turning black with cathodic electrolysis at relatively high currents with alkaline electrolytes like potassium hydroxide or carbonate, which should rule out oxidation, but I haven't tested SS316. I think this is more likely to occur if according to Simon Brink's diagram the applied voltage is 24V (it should generate large amounts of gas and heat), although the experiment description in the same page says 6V or a bit more. I don't think an ordinary constant wave (CW) laser pointer will work well for Holmlid-type experiments; a Q-switched pulse laser might be required. Nowadays relatively affordable entry level models exist for cosmetic tattoo-removal and similar applications, which could be adapted for these experiments, but still they require close to 1000$ at the least. Perhaps, as for a Holmlid-type suggestion that might be useful here, the plates could be coated with soot or fine graphite after drying. Not only this will make surface conditions roughly even, but carbon might be able to increase the chances of ultra-dense hydrogen formation from the hydrogen-loaded plate (which should slowly release hydrogen after electrolysis). Look for the keyword "carbon" in this open-access paper for more details: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijhydene.2021.02.221 Cheers, BA
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Thanks for remembering this experiment from Simon Brink ! The effect is surprisingly large and my bet is that it only works well with 316 grade SS. If so - that would be good evidence for Mills' theory and the importance of the lowest energy catalyst. Nickel alone should not work as well. As you suggest, eliminating color change should be attempted but for those who follow Holmlid, another wrinkle would be using a laser pointer Bill Antoni wrote On a related note, Simon Brink proposed a good while back an experiment with electrolytically H-loaded SS316 plates exposed to infrared light; he suggested that excess heat would be generated with high repeatability, using thermometry. http://subtleatomics.com/excess-heat I'm not entirely convinced by this approach as electrolysis could affect surface emissivity (the cathode can turn dark or black after prolonged electrolysis), but it could be a starting point under simpler experimental conditions. Cheers, BA
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
On 2021-11-23 15:39, Jones Beene wrote: It is hard to separate Mills' theory from Holmlid's work. They are likely to be complementary with both offering important details. One early experiment for a "critical volume" validation could involve the catalytic propensity of reactor itself. IOW - a large volume with NO added catalyst other than the reactor onterior surface - that, in itself, could produce a thermal or photon emission anomaly. The main detail to keep in mind - the type of stainless steel used. Stainless steel contains nickel and iron - both catalysts according to Mills but requiring high ionization. Perhaps a dedicated catalyst is unnecessary if the reactor composition is optimum. The best reactor choice to investigate would be grade 316 stainless. [...] On a related note, Simon Brink proposed a good while back an experiment with electrolytically H-loaded SS316 plates exposed to infrared light; he suggested that excess heat would be generated with high repeatability, using thermometry. http://subtleatomics.com/excess-heat I'm not entirely convinced by this approach as electrolysis could affect surface emissivity (the cathode can turn dark or black after prolonged electrolysis), but it could be a starting point under simpler experimental conditions. Cheers, BA
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
It is hard to separate Mills' theory from Holmlid's work. They are likely to
be complementary with both offering important details. One early experiment for
a "critical volume" validation could involve the catalytic propensity of
reactor itself. IOW - a large volume with NO added catalyst other than the
reactor onterior surface - that, in itself, could produce a thermal or photon
emission anomaly.
The main detail to keep in mind - the type of stainless steel used.
Stainless steel contains nickel and iron - both catalysts according to Mills
but requiring high ionization. Perhaps a dedicated catalyst is unnecessary if
the reactor composition is optimum. The best reactor choice to investigate
would be grade 316 stainless. Here's why.
Grade 316 is a molybdenum bearing alloy. Notably - in Mills' theory,
molybdenum (as an ion) is the closest fit of all metals in the periodic table
to the magic catalytic energy of 27.2 eV - the Rydberg value required. Both
iron and nickel require much higher ionization. An alloy, as opposed to a pure
metal, can provide pseudo ionization in such a situation when exposed to
protons.
Who knows ? - a large enough 316 grade reactor could produce a UV flash using a
puff of H2 and with no added or dedicated catalyst, especially if the surface
is pitted.
Mills should have thought of this himself :-)
Bill Antoni wrote
> The "critical volume" idea I proposed was mostly based on the simple
> observation that ... {Holmlid}... uses only a very small fraction of the
> admitted hydrogen over the catalyst seemingly transitions to a denser
> state...
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Hi Bob, The "critical volume" idea I proposed was mostly based on the simple observation that in loosely similar experiments using much lower amounts of catalyst material (perhaps a few hundred milligrams at most in the experiments for example reported by Holmlid and sometimes cited here by Jones Beene; he uses commercially-available iron oxide catalyst that about anybody can craft or purchase) only a very small fraction of the admitted hydrogen over the catalyst seemingly transitions to a denser state. It has to be so, otherwise the excess heat generated by even just the condensation energy of the H atoms to the dense state would be quite evident and there would be extensive reports not only about reproducible LENR but also about meltdowns in the chemical industry where the same catalysts are used in practice. (thermal runaways in industrial reactors have been occasionally reported, but for chemical reactions that are already exothermic in the first place, so attributing them to LENR like some have done seems like a stretch) So, if this transition or compression of H atoms is a rare event, it would be desirable to find a way to either increase the event rate by "brute force", or to find local conditions that make these events more probable. I think using a large amount of ordinary/commercially-available catalyst material would fall in the former scenario, while most LENR experiments using small amounts of specially-crafted nanomaterials would be fall in the latter. That's all; there was not too much thought into the idea. Cheers, BA On 2021-11-23 00:06, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Bill and others— Ideas on LENR theory: HYPOTHIS: 1. Some/Most of the Ni powder were individual crystals of Ni which were a QM (entangled) systems of nucleons and atomic electrons coupled by a magnagentic "B"| field. 2. The QM systems of my first assumption could be characterized by equations (Hamiltonians) that characterize differing phases of the pertinent QM system. 3. Angular momentum ands energy are conserved in the possible phases of any QM system. 4. Positrons, electrons and neutrinos make up the elementary particles of the assumed QM systems proposed in 1 above. (A nucleon model proposed by William Stubbs is a key basis for this assumption.) 5. H or H2 when added tp the Ni powder become part to the QM system as an additional lattice nucleons(s). 6. A fast LEMNR reaction involving a phonic increase in lattice energy and angular momentum, an electron/positrons annihilations and a nuclear transmutation with lower, total angular momentum and energy equal to the respective increases of the lattice electrons. 7. Relatively slow cooling of the "hot" Ni crystals follows per accepted theory. NOTES: 1. AM is quantized at in increments pf h/2-pi. 2 Magnetic moments are associated with the AM of primary particles. 3. Toradol shaped rotating magnetic field may produce what is commonly- called electric charge. So(4) physics may be applicable to quantification. ( Jurg may have better ideas about this.) Bob Cook Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows *From: *Bill Antoni <mailto:bantoni...@gmail.com> *Sent: *Monday, November 22, 2021 1:18 PM *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? If hydrogen adsorbed on suitable catalysts can be made to desorb for example with UV light, and if then a transition of the H atoms to a compressed state in desorption also in turn causes the emission of UV light (without focus on any theory in particular, although R. Mills has studied such emissions with his Hydrinos) in a positive feedback loop, one such laser might be possible, but it all depends on how probable such transitions are. They are likely to be very rare with ordinary, untreated hydrogen-active metals (Ni, Pd, Pt, etc) or also more complex catalysts as used in commercial chemical reactors, causing them to go unnoticed most of the time. So, it's unknown whether such laser would be actually feasible in practice. Although it will not work for a laser, with these mechanisms in mind, perhaps a reactor composed of a very long coiled tube with the active material coated on its internal walls could work more efficiently than a big chamber with loose powder, while still being in principle overall relatively simple to craft. The tube could be coiled around a heater of some sort, and tube geometry and gas admission would have to be such as to maximize repeated hydrogen contact with the catalyst coated on the internal walls (e.g. a straight tube might not work well and a free-flowing system could be better than one where hydrogen only very slowly diffuses through the material) instead of just absorption into the lattice as done in many gas-loaded LENR experiments. I'm aware that one experiment by Mil
RE: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
In light of Rossi's apparent lead i'd be looking at the possibility of spontaneous formation of novel condensates. The D2 diatomic molecule being a boson presents an obvious soft target for aligning spins to cohere into shared lower-energy quantum states, the different magnetic moments of the electron and nucleus of the deuterium atom passing through the high magnetic moments of the Ni powder might cause some degree of polarisation and/or phase coherence, etc. - the basic idea being to cultivate an optimal fluctuation in Fermi numbers / system entropy relative to surrounding environmental free electrons (such as in the reactor casing, say), which may adopt the lower-energy quantum states vacated by the formation of the condensates; thus forcing the vacuum to assign higher Fermi numbers / quantum energy states to any fermions exiting a collapsing condensate than they initially carried into it. This manifests as an exothermic gain accumulating over many such cycles.. ..until thermal phase begins to approach resonant modes with certain quantum phases (such as the zitterbewegung phase), resulting in further quantum-classical coherence and allowing like-polarised electrons to begin sharing Fermi numbers, so adopting the lowest available energy state but also causing precipitous fluctuations in system entropy relative to the environment, surrounding free electrons instantly co-opting lower Fermi numbers as they become available, and so causing the vacuum to assign necessarily-higher quantum energy states to fermions exiting transiently-coherent quasi-bosonic states and yadda yadda runaway feedback loop. Vacuum / ZP energy, bashically, a la EM OU - the accelerated / heated fermions exiting the meta-stable bosonic states being impelled by a flux of positive h-bar endowed by virtual photons corralled from vacuum per QED - ie. the actual form of the gain being normal Coulomb repulsion between decohering fermions, albeit with vacuum-inflated quantum energy states. LENR effects may be epiphenomenal to the common energy gain principle, an almost incidental artefact of spontaneous long-range coupling between nuclei immersed in a matrix of coherent quasi-bosons allowing them to interact in some sense as if already within one another's proton radii, presumably conserving baryon number if not initial disposition (again, a different kind of effective Coulomb exploit). The key dynamic would simply be that transiently-stable shared lower-energy quantum states free up Fermi numbers that any environmental fermions in higher energy states will automatically drop down into, necessitating the assigning of higher Fermi numbers to those departing these shared states, thus energising these collapses with an extra kick of ambient h-bar from vacuum. This is basically what Rossi's doing via contained cold plasmas - time-critical selective-energisation of electrons over ions causing like-polasrised condensates of the former to precipitate out onto the latter, forming transiently-stable structures with an emission line consistent with the precessional moment of a protium-nucleated thermo-ZBW condensate; decoherence of which (reinstating Pauli exclusion) yields excess energy, the cycle requiring cool-off time to prevent ions gaining thermal equilibrium with electrons (via normal dissipation), hence a discontinuous / pulsed cycle, in order to maintain the formative 'non-thermal plasma' state for consistently culturing these exotic self-reactive species and the huge fluctuations in internal vs ambient entropy / quantum energy states their concerted phase transitions apply. Crucially, the system remains thermodynamically open to (and dependent upon) the environmental exchange of entropy, 2LoT itself putting the vacuum in a bind, which then HAS to assign higher energy states to decohering fermions due to their formerly-vacated states having been reoccupied the instant any up-up or down-down condensate initially formed.. and so a 'logic trap for nature', type stuff. TL;DR - mebe the Thermacore runaway was inadvertent EM OU resulting from exothermic closed-cycling of spontaneous fermion-boson-fermion phase transitions - perhaps helped along by chance resonance with ambient phonon phases - between molecular and atomic D2 - until reaching breakdown temps, at which point the fermionic D2 atoms become bosonic ions and fermionic up/down electrons which then want - through shear thermodynamic expediency - to form like-polarised quasi-bosons sharing a unitary quantum energy state; everything's jumping back and forth across the Pauli exclusion barrier in sweeping phase transitions - that's just what happens when a gas of atomic and molecular D2 gets ionised - and because nature only cares about balancing the books in the given instant, refermionisation events per se (such as bosenovas) may be ideal bait'n'switch / shell games for wrangling unilateral Coulomb repulsion from ZPE. Rather than a 2LoT violation, a kind of negentropic open
RE: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Hi Bill and others— Ideas on LENR theory: HYPOTHIS: 1. Some/Most of the Ni powder were individual crystals of Ni which were a QM (entangled) systems of nucleons and atomic electrons coupled by a magnagentic "B"| field. 2. The QM systems of my first assumption could be characterized by equations (Hamiltonians) that characterize differing phases of the pertinent QM system. 3. Angular momentum ands energy are conserved in the possible phases of any QM system. 4. Positrons, electrons and neutrinos make up the elementary particles of the assumed QM systems proposed in 1 above. (A nucleon model proposed by William Stubbs is a key basis for this assumption.) 5. H or H2 when added tp the Ni powder become part to the QM system as an additional lattice nucleons(s). 6. A fast LEMNR reaction involving a phonic increase in lattice energy and angular momentum, an electron/positrons annihilations and a nuclear transmutation with lower, totalangular momentum and energy equal to the respective increases of the lattice electrons. 7. Relatively slow cooling of the "hot" Ni crystals follows per accepted theory. NOTES: 1. AM is quantized at in increments pf h/2-pi. 2 Magnetic moments are associated with the AM of primary particles. 3. Toradol shaped rotating magnetic field may produce what is commonly- called electric charge. So(4) physics may be applicable to quantification. ( Jurg may have better ideas about this.) Bob Cook Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows From: Bill Antoni<mailto:bantoni...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 1:18 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? If hydrogen adsorbed on suitable catalysts can be made to desorb for example with UV light, and if then a transition of the H atoms to a compressed state in desorption also in turn causes the emission of UV light (without focus on any theory in particular, although R. Mills has studied such emissions with his Hydrinos) in a positive feedback loop, one such laser might be possible, but it all depends on how probable such transitions are. They are likely to be very rare with ordinary, untreated hydrogen-active metals (Ni, Pd, Pt, etc) or also more complex catalysts as used in commercial chemical reactors, causing them to go unnoticed most of the time. So, it's unknown whether such laser would be actually feasible in practice. Although it will not work for a laser, with these mechanisms in mind, perhaps a reactor composed of a very long coiled tube with the active material coated on its internal walls could work more efficiently than a big chamber with loose powder, while still being in principle overall relatively simple to craft. The tube could be coiled around a heater of some sort, and tube geometry and gas admission would have to be such as to maximize repeated hydrogen contact with the catalyst coated on the internal walls (e.g. a straight tube might not work well and a free-flowing system could be better than one where hydrogen only very slowly diffuses through the material) instead of just absorption into the lattice as done in many gas-loaded LENR experiments. I'm aware that one experiment by Mills or somebody else to verify his theories used a long nickel tube in an electrolytic cell, but that would be different than what I am thinking about here. Cheers, BA On 2021-11-22 19:54, Jones Beene wrote: Hi Bill, Your thought about "critical volume" is intriguing and brings up the possibility of efficient self-lasing due to adsorption/desorption and catalysis. Of interest would be the violet H line at 410 nm for which there is already a secret US Navy weapon in this category. Coincidence? This could involve the possibility of a self-generating two-gas laser where one gas is hydrogen and the other is hydrogen in the collapsed state, formed in situ and making the device efficient due to a UV emission cascade. This might explain why a hemispherical reactor is useful (assuming reflectivity is enhanced) In this regard, this old patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US4159453A/en and this article https://www.hindawi.com/journals/lc/2008/839873/ seem to suggest that something like this possibility has been considered before... and might explain why the Thermacore project (with the Navy) was "apparently" canceled, despite the energy anomaly. Probably worth a deeper look... Bill Antoni wrote: Jones Beene wrote: One further thought about the Thermacore runaway - is there a potential lesson there, for experiment design ? There could be one lesson which can be called - GO BIG... but also BEWARE if you go big. Perhaps there is something akin to critical mass, which is important for maximum gain, as in nuclear fission? If there is a very small but non-zero chance for hydrogen to unde
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
If hydrogen adsorbed on suitable catalysts can be made to desorb for example with UV light, and if then a transition of the H atoms to a compressed state in desorption also in turn causes the emission of UV light (without focus on any theory in particular, although R. Mills has studied such emissions with his Hydrinos) in a positive feedback loop, one such laser might be possible, but it all depends on how probable such transitions are. They are likely to be very rare with ordinary, untreated hydrogen-active metals (Ni, Pd, Pt, etc) or also more complex catalysts as used in commercial chemical reactors, causing them to go unnoticed most of the time. So, it's unknown whether such laser would be actually feasible in practice. Although it will not work for a laser, with these mechanisms in mind, perhaps a reactor composed of a very long coiled tube with the active material coated on its internal walls could work more efficiently than a big chamber with loose powder, while still being in principle overall relatively simple to craft. The tube could be coiled around a heater of some sort, and tube geometry and gas admission would have to be such as to maximize repeated hydrogen contact with the catalyst coated on the internal walls (e.g. a straight tube might not work well and a free-flowing system could be better than one where hydrogen only very slowly diffuses through the material) instead of just absorption into the lattice as done in many gas-loaded LENR experiments. I'm aware that one experiment by Mills or somebody else to verify his theories used a long nickel tube in an electrolytic cell, but that would be different than what I am thinking about here. Cheers, BA On 2021-11-22 19:54, Jones Beene wrote: Hi Bill, Your thought about "critical volume" is intriguing and brings up the possibility of efficient self-lasing due to adsorption/desorption and catalysis. Of interest would be the violet H line at 410 nm for which there is already a secret US Navy weapon in this category. Coincidence? This could involve the possibility of a self-generating two-gas laser where one gas is hydrogen and the other is hydrogen in the collapsed state, formed in situ and making the device efficient due to a UV emission cascade. This might explain why a hemispherical reactor is useful (assuming reflectivity is enhanced) In this regard, this old patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US4159453A/en and this article https://www.hindawi.com/journals/lc/2008/839873/ seem to suggest that something like this possibility has been considered before... and might explain why the Thermacore project (with the Navy) was "apparently" canceled, despite the energy anomaly. Probably worth a deeper look... Bill Antoni wrote: Jones Beene wrote: One further thought about the Thermacore runaway - is there a potential lesson there, for experiment design ? There could be one lesson which can be called - GO BIG... but also BEWARE if you go big. Perhaps there is something akin to critical mass, which is important for maximum gain, as in nuclear fission? If there is a very small but non-zero chance for hydrogen to undergo certain transitions as it's adsorbed-desorbed from the catalyst material, then more than critical mass it could be a matter of critical volume of catalyst through which hydrogen travels before something occurs. Perhaps that could explain why resonating systems are sometimes suggested to work well. They might be able to maximize hydrogen interaction events (defined as adsorption-desorption cycles) per unit of time with the catalyst. Just a simple thought. Cheers, BA
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Hi Bill, Your thought about "critical volume" is intriguing and brings up the possibility of efficient self-lasing due to adsorption/desorption and catalysis. Of interest would be the violet H line at 410 nm for which there is already a secret US Navy weapon in this category. Coincidence? This could involve the possibility of a self-generating two-gas laser where one gas is hydrogen and the other is hydrogen in the collapsed state, formed in situ and making the device efficient due to a UV emission cascade. This might explain why a hemispherical reactor is useful (assuming reflectivity is enhanced) In this regard, this old patenthttps://patents.google.com/patent/US4159453A/en and this article https://www.hindawi.com/journals/lc/2008/839873/ seem to suggest that something like this possibility has been considered before... and might explain why the Thermacore project (with the Navy) was "apparently" canceled, despite the energy anomaly. Probably worth a deeper look... Bill Antoni wrote: Jones Beene wrote: One further thought about the Thermacore runaway - is there a potential lesson there, for experiment design ? There could be one lesson which can be called - GO BIG... but also BEWARE if you go big. Perhaps there is something akin to critical mass, which is important for maximum gain, as in nuclear fission? If there is a very small but non-zero chance for hydrogen to undergo certain transitions as it's adsorbed-desorbed from the catalyst material, then more than critical mass it could be a matter of critical volume of catalyst through which hydrogen travels before something occurs. Perhaps that could explain why resonating systems are sometimes suggested to work well. They might be able to maximize hydrogen interaction events (defined as adsorption-desorption cycles) per unit of time with the catalyst. Just a simple thought. Cheers, BA
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Jones Beene wrote: One further thought about the Thermacore runaway - is there a potential lesson there, for experiment design ? There could be one lesson which can be called - GO BIG... but also BEWARE if you go big. Perhaps there is something akin to critical mass, which is important for maximum gain, as in nuclear fission? If there is a very small but non-zero chance for hydrogen to undergo certain transitions as it's adsorbed-desorbed from the catalyst material, then more than critical mass it could be a matter of critical volume of catalyst through which hydrogen travels before something occurs. Perhaps that could explain why resonating systems are sometimes suggested to work well. They might be able to maximize hydrogen interaction events (defined as adsorption-desorption cycles) per unit of time with the catalyst. Just a simple thought. Cheers, BA
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
In reply to Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 21 Nov 2021 19:23:59 -0700: Hi, What picture? >Hi Bob, > >I found a report about Thermacore's measurements that included this picture >of their test vessel: > >On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 4:52 PM bobcook39...@hotmail.com < >bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote: [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Hi Bob, I found a report about Thermacore's measurements that included this picture of their test vessel: On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 4:52 PM bobcook39...@hotmail.com < bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Jones— > > > > Higgins raised some good questions. > > > > I assumed from your description of the > > Thermacore test that the reactor was a flanged hemisphere bolted to a > bottom SS plate, not a complete spherical reactor.\ > > > > Do you know of a report or other reference for the test>: > > > > Bob Cook > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows > > > > *From: *Jones Beene > *Sent: *Friday, November 19, 2021 1:17 PM > *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > Yes, there are way too many loose ends in this story - not the least of > which is: where is that damaged reactor now? It is almost unconscionable to > have ignored it all these years. > > > > If a nuclear reaction had happened, there should be residual radiation. > Not to mention - most top engineers would want to write this episode up, at > some point. And also - Gene Mallove was apparently going to get involved > before his tragic fate. > > > > Like so many stories in LERN since '89 this is one more mystery which is > full of contrasting doubt and hope. > > > > > > Bob Higgins wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Jones, for that historical highlight of the Thermacore > experiment. > > > > 2.5 pounds of the Ni would have only amounted to 12% volumetric fill of > the 3L container volume. > > > > When you say the stainless steel pressure vessel had a "hemispherical > volume", what do you mean? Do you mean the pressure vessel was spherical? > Or was it cylindrical with hemispherical top and bottom? > > > > If the vessel was spherical, it would have an inside diameter of about 7" > for an internal volume of 3L. If we then presume that it was 300 pounds of > stainless steel, that is 1034 in^3 that would be in the shell of the > container. This would mean that the wall thickness of the container would > have been 4.9" - extremely thick. This is an unlikely sounding container. > Was it really that thick? For what purpose would such a container have > ever been created? > > > > Jones Beene wrote: > > After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics > community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear > what > the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - > since none has yet led to a commercial product. > > Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the > Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that > work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to > current > work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. > > Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact > became > the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all > aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they > kept at it (1996)... who knows? > > Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - > instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other > thermal > runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. > However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have > led to high profile fatalities. > > > > This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply > > input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF > > (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis > > the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at > > modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to have been the most energetic single > event in the history of LENR. > > > > Years later, Brian Ahern was in contact with Nelson Gernert, the chief > > researcher in the new Thermacore, Inc (having gone through two changes of > > ownership) ... and who was also in charge of the runaway. Brian is absolutely > convinced that this happened as described. > > > > Details: Gernert added 2.5 pounds of nickel powder (200 mesh of Ni-200) into a > 3 liter stainless steel Dewar. The Dewar weighed 300 pounds. It was a strong > > pressure vessel with a hemispherical volume. I
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
One further thought about the Thermacore runaway - is there a potential lesson there, for experiment design ? There could be one lesson which can be called - GO BIG... but also BEWARE if you go big. Perhaps there is something akin to critical mass, which is important for maximum gain, as in nuclear fission? This would go along with the suspicion of so-called "strange radiation" in LENR - which has been around for a long time but never proved. Even if the strange radiation is EUV emission, there could be a threshold level of metal reactant- possibly a around a kilogram, which results in a runaway, Bob, Brian Ahern was a first-party witness to all of this activity at Thermacore, and visited the facility during this period. His information came from Gernert. There is little doubt that the massive runaway experiment factually happened, but little chance that it is worthy of being considered anything more than interesting anecdote. If it were not for the similarity to the Clean Planet design, I would not have mentioned it. Many are skeptical of Clean Planet due to the past over-optimism of Yoshino - despite them being funded by Mitsubishi. I think they could be onto something, this time - which will be commercial. The Thermacore episode could serve to add some credence to what they are doing there at Clean Planet, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote: Jones— Higgins raised some good questions. I assumed from your description of the Thermacore test that the reactor was a flanged hemisphere bolted to a bottom SS plate, not a complete spherical reactor.\ Do you know of a report or other reference for the test>: Bob Cook Sent from Mail for Windows From: Jones Beene Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 1:17 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? Hi Bob, Yes, there are way too many loose ends in this story - not the least of which is: where is that damaged reactor now? It is almost unconscionable to have ignored it all these years. If a nuclear reaction had happened, there should be residual radiation. Not to mention - most top engineers would want to write this episode up, at some point. And also - Gene Mallove was apparently going to get involved before his tragic fate. Like so many stories in LERN since '89 this is one more mystery which is full of contrasting doubt and hope. Bob Higgins wrote: Thank you, Jones, for that historical highlight of the Thermacore experiment. 2.5 pounds of the Ni would have only amounted to 12% volumetric fill of the 3L container volume. When you say the stainless steel pressure vessel had a "hemispherical volume", what do you mean? Do you mean the pressure vessel was spherical? Or was it cylindrical with hemispherical top and bottom? If the vessel was spherical, it would have an inside diameter of about 7" for an internal volume of 3L. If we then presume that it was 300 pounds of stainless steel, that is 1034 in^3 that would be in the shell of the container. This would mean that the wall thickness of the container would have been 4.9" - extremely thick. This is an unlikely sounding container. Was it really that thick? For what purpose would such a container have ever been created? Jones Beene wrote: After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear what the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - since none has yet led to a commercial product. Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to current work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact became the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they kept at it (1996)... who knows? Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other thermal runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have led to high profile fatalities. This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Bob, Brian Ahern was a first party witness to all of this activity at Thermacore, and visited the facility during this period. There is little doubt that the massive runaway experiment factually happened, but little chance that it is worthy of being considered anything more than interesting anecdote. If it were not for the similarity to the Clean Planet design, I would not have mentioned it. Many are skeptical of Clean Planet due to the past over-optimism of Yoshino - despite them being funded by Mitsubishi. I think they could be onto something, this time - which will be commercial. The Thermacore episode could serve to add some credence to what they are doing there at Clean Planet, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote: Jones— Higgins raised some good questions. I assumed from your description of the Thermacore test that the reactor was a flanged hemisphere bolted to a bottom SS plate, not a complete spherical reactor.\ Do you know of a report or other reference for the test>: Bob Cook Sent from Mail for Windows From: Jones Beene Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 1:17 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? Hi Bob, Yes, there are way too many loose ends in this story - not the least of which is: where is that damaged reactor now? It is almost unconscionable to have ignored it all these years. If a nuclear reaction had happened, there should be residual radiation. Not to mention - most top engineers would want to write this episode up, at some point. And also - Gene Mallove was apparently going to get involved before his tragic fate. Like so many stories in LERN since '89 this is one more mystery which is full of contrasting doubt and hope. Bob Higgins wrote: Thank you, Jones, for that historical highlight of the Thermacore experiment. 2.5 pounds of the Ni would have only amounted to 12% volumetric fill of the 3L container volume. When you say the stainless steel pressure vessel had a "hemispherical volume", what do you mean? Do you mean the pressure vessel was spherical? Or was it cylindrical with hemispherical top and bottom? If the vessel was spherical, it would have an inside diameter of about 7" for an internal volume of 3L. If we then presume that it was 300 pounds of stainless steel, that is 1034 in^3 that would be in the shell of the container. This would mean that the wall thickness of the container would have been 4.9" - extremely thick. This is an unlikely sounding container. Was it really that thick? For what purpose would such a container have ever been created? Jones Beene wrote: After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear what the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - since none has yet led to a commercial product. Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to current work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact became the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they kept at it (1996)... who knows? Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other thermal runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have led to high profile fatalities. This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to have been the most energetic single event in the history of LENR. Years later, Brian Ahern was in contact with Nelson Gernert, the chief researcher in the new Thermacore, Inc (having gone through two changes of ownership) ... and who was also in charge of the runaway. Brian is absolutely convinced that this happened as described. Details: Gernert added 2.5 pounds of nickel powder (200 mesh of Ni-200) into a 3 liter stainless steel Dewar. The Dewar weighed 300 pounds. It was a strong pressure vessel with a hemispherical volume. It would have been an approximation of a small industrial boiler had things not gone berserk that day. Thermacore
RE: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Jones— Higgins raised some good questions. I assumed from your description of the Thermacore test that the reactor was a flanged hemisphere bolted to a bottom SS plate, not a complete spherical reactor.\ Do you know of a report or other reference for the test>: Bob Cook Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows From: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 1:17 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ? Hi Bob, Yes, there are way too many loose ends in this story - not the least of which is: where is that damaged reactor now? It is almost unconscionable to have ignored it all these years. If a nuclear reaction had happened, there should be residual radiation. Not to mention - most top engineers would want to write this episode up, at some point. And also - Gene Mallove was apparently going to get involved before his tragic fate. Like so many stories in LERN since '89 this is one more mystery which is full of contrasting doubt and hope. Bob Higgins wrote: Thank you, Jones, for that historical highlight of the Thermacore experiment. 2.5 pounds of the Ni would have only amounted to 12% volumetric fill of the 3L container volume. When you say the stainless steel pressure vessel had a "hemispherical volume", what do you mean? Do you mean the pressure vessel was spherical? Or was it cylindrical with hemispherical top and bottom? If the vessel was spherical, it would have an inside diameter of about 7" for an internal volume of 3L. If we then presume that it was 300 pounds of stainless steel, that is 1034 in^3 that would be in the shell of the container. This would mean that the wall thickness of the container would have been 4.9" - extremely thick. This is an unlikely sounding container. Was it really that thick? For what purpose would such a container have ever been created? Jones Beene wrote: After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear what the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - since none has yet led to a commercial product. Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to current work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact became the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they kept at it (1996)... who knows? Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other thermal runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have led to high profile fatalities. This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to have been the most energetic single event in the history of LENR. Years later, Brian Ahern was in contact with Nelson Gernert, the chief researcher in the new Thermacore, Inc (having gone through two changes of ownership) ... and who was also in charge of the runaway. Brian is absolutely convinced that this happened as described. Details: Gernert added 2.5 pounds of nickel powder (200 mesh of Ni-200) into a 3 liter stainless steel Dewar. The Dewar weighed 300 pounds. It was a strong pressure vessel with a hemispherical volume. It would have been an approximation of a small industrial boiler had things not gone berserk that day. Thermacore evacuated the nickel under vacuum for several days before adding H2 gas at 2 atmospheres. The most amazing thing happened next. The powder immediately and spontaneously heated up before external power could even be added. The Dewar glowed orange (800C) and the engineers ran for cover. No external heat had been used and radiation monitors were not running. The nickel had sintered into a glob alloyed into the vessel and could not be removed. The (then) owner of Thermacore, Yale Eastman was frightened that an explosion was imminent and that someone could be killed. He forbade any further work on LENR. The incident was not published. Superficial thermal analysis - 3 liters of H2 gas at 2 atmosphere will have a heat of combustion of 74 kilojoules if combine
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Hi Bob, Yes, there are way too many loose ends in this story - not the least of which is: where is that damaged reactor now? It is almost unconscionable to have ignored it all these years. If a nuclear reaction had happened, there should be residual radiation. Not to mention - most top engineers would want to write this episode up, at some point. And also - Gene Mallove was apparently going to get involved before his tragic fate. Like so many stories in LERN since '89 this is one more mystery which is full of contrasting doubt and hope. Bob Higgins wrote: Thank you, Jones, for that historical highlight of the Thermacore experiment. 2.5 pounds of the Ni would have only amounted to 12% volumetric fill of the 3L container volume. When you say the stainless steel pressure vessel had a "hemispherical volume", what do you mean? Do you mean the pressure vessel was spherical? Or was it cylindrical with hemispherical top and bottom? If the vessel was spherical, it would have an inside diameter of about 7" for an internal volume of 3L. If we then presume that it was 300 pounds of stainless steel, that is 1034 in^3 that would be in the shell of the container. This would mean that the wall thickness of the container would have been 4.9" - extremely thick. This is an unlikely sounding container. Was it really that thick? For what purpose would such a container have ever been created? Jones Beene wrote: After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear what the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - since none has yet led to a commercial product. Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to current work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact became the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they kept at it (1996)... who knows? Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other thermal runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have led to high profile fatalities. This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to have been the most energetic single event in the history of LENR. Years later, Brian Ahern was in contact with Nelson Gernert, the chief researcher in the new Thermacore, Inc (having gone through two changes of ownership) ... and who was also in charge of the runaway. Brian is absolutely convinced that this happened as described. Details: Gernert added 2.5 pounds of nickel powder (200 mesh of Ni-200) into a 3 liter stainless steel Dewar. The Dewar weighed 300 pounds. It was a strong pressure vessel with a hemispherical volume. It would have been an approximation of a small industrial boiler had things not gone berserk that day. Thermacore evacuated the nickel under vacuum for several days before adding H2 gas at 2 atmospheres. The most amazing thing happened next. The powder immediately and spontaneously heated up before external power could even be added. The Dewar glowed orange (800C) and the engineers ran for cover. No external heat had been used and radiation monitors were not running. The nickel had sintered into a glob alloyed into the vessel and could not be removed. The (then) owner of Thermacore, Yale Eastman was frightened that an explosion was imminent and that someone could be killed. He forbade any further work on LENR. The incident was not published. Superficial thermal analysis - 3 liters of H2 gas at 2 atmosphere will have a heat of combustion of 74 kilojoules if combined with oxygen (but there was no oxygen in the Dewar). Heating a 300 lb Stainless vessel to 800C would require 21 megajoules. That is ostensibly ~289 times the possible chemical energy but can it be controlled? Maybe Clean Planet has learned how to control this phenomenon and can produce a small boiler. Mitsubishi is a major investor, it is said. Tesla beware. https://www.cleanplanet.co.jp/en/company/
Re: [Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
Thank you, Jones, for that historical highlight of the Thermacore experiment. 2.5 pounds of the Ni would have only amounted to 12% volumetric fill of the 3L container volume. When you say the stainless steel pressure vessel had a "hemispherical volume", what do you mean? Do you mean the pressure vessel was spherical? Or was it cylindrical with hemispherical top and bottom? If the vessel was spherical, it would have an inside diameter of about 7" for an internal volume of 3L. If we then presume that it was 300 pounds of stainless steel, that is 1034 in^3 that would be in the shell of the container. This would mean that the wall thickness of the container would have been 4.9" - extremely thick. This is an unlikely sounding container. Was it really that thick? For what purpose would such a container have ever been created? On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:41 PM Jones Beene wrote: > After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics > community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear > what > the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - > since none has yet led to a commercial product. > > Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the > Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that > work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to > current > work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. > > Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact > became > the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all > aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they > kept at it (1996)... who knows? > > Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - > instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other > thermal > runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. > However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have > led to high profile fatalities. > > This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply > input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF > (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis > the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at > modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to have been the most energetic single > event in the history of LENR. > > Years later, Brian Ahern was in contact with Nelson Gernert, the chief > researcher in the new Thermacore, Inc (having gone through two changes of > ownership) ... and who was also in charge of the runaway. Brian is absolutely > convinced that this happened as described. > > Details: Gernert added 2.5 pounds of nickel powder (200 mesh of Ni-200) into a > 3 liter stainless steel Dewar. The Dewar weighed 300 pounds. It was a strong > pressure vessel with a hemispherical volume. It would have been an > approximation of a small industrial boiler had things not gone berserk that > day. > > Thermacore evacuated the nickel under vacuum for several days before adding > H2 gas at 2 atmospheres. The most amazing thing happened next. The powder > immediately and spontaneously heated up before external power could even > be added. The Dewar glowed orange (800C) and the engineers ran for cover. > No external heat had been used and radiation monitors were not running. The > nickel had sintered into a glob alloyed into the vessel and could not be > removed. > > The (then) owner of Thermacore, Yale Eastman was frightened that an > explosion was imminent and that someone could be killed. He forbade any > further work on LENR. The incident was not published. > > Superficial thermal analysis - 3 liters of H2 gas at 2 atmosphere will have a > heat > of combustion of 74 kilojoules if combined with oxygen (but there was no > oxygen > in the Dewar). Heating a 300 lb Stainless vessel to 800C would require 21 > megajoules. That is ostensibly ~289 times the possible chemical energy but can > it be controlled? > > Maybe *Clean Planet *has learned how to control this phenomenon and can > produce a small boiler. Mitsubishi is a major investor, it is said. > > Tesla beware. > > https://www.cleanplanet.co.jp/en/company/ > > > > > >
[Vo]:The "hero" LENR experiment ?
After all of these decades, the perception of LENR in the general physics community is still rather 'unflattering,' shall we say. It is not even clear what the most convincing experiment (aka - the hero effort) is/was in the field - since none has yet led to a commercial product. Many new observers of the LENR scene are unaware of the details of the Thermacore, Inc. runaway reaction in 1996. I ran across an old post on that work recently and decided to re-post it since there is some similarity to current work - to wit the Clean Planet effort in Japan. Unfortunately, the end result was not (publicly) replicated, but in fact became the final effort (and exit). (BTW - Thermacore was a recognized leader in all aspects of industrial thermochemistry, having inventedthe heat pipe. Had they kept at it (1996)... who knows? Sadly, the reason that they dropped LENR 25 years ago was far from 'no gain' - instead, it was the risk of deadly explosion. The incident echoes other thermal runaways, including P, Mizuno, Mark Snoswell in Australia and Brian Ahern. However, Thermacore's was more energetic than prior incidents and could have led to high profile fatalities. This was to have been a powered experiment, but they never had time to apply input power. It was was a follow-on to a Phase one grant from USAF (document in LENR-CANR library) and was simply intended to be an analysis the absorption reaction of a large amount of nickel powder with hydrogen at modest pressure. Instead, it was likely to have been the most energetic single event in the history of LENR. Years later, Brian Ahern was in contact with Nelson Gernert, the chief researcher in the new Thermacore, Inc (having gone through two changes of ownership) ... and who was also in charge of the runaway. Brian is absolutely convinced that this happened as described. Details: Gernert added 2.5 pounds of nickel powder (200 mesh of Ni-200) into a 3 liter stainless steel Dewar. The Dewar weighed 300 pounds. It was a strong pressure vessel with a hemispherical volume. It would have been an approximation of a small industrial boiler had things not gone berserk that day. Thermacore evacuated the nickel under vacuum for several days before adding H2 gas at 2 atmospheres. The most amazing thing happened next. The powder immediately and spontaneously heated up before external power could even be added. The Dewar glowed orange (800C) and the engineers ran for cover. No external heat had been used and radiation monitors were not running. The nickel had sintered into a glob alloyed into the vessel and could not be removed. The (then) owner of Thermacore, Yale Eastman was frightened that an explosion was imminent and that someone could be killed. He forbade any further work on LENR. The incident was not published. Superficial thermal analysis - 3 liters of H2 gas at 2 atmosphere will have a heat of combustion of 74 kilojoules if combined with oxygen (but there was no oxygen in the Dewar). Heating a 300 lb Stainless vessel to 800C would require 21 megajoules. That is ostensibly ~289 times the possible chemical energy but can it be controlled? Maybe Clean Planet has learned how to control this phenomenon and can produce a small boiler. Mitsubishi is a major investor, it is said. Tesla beware. https://www.cleanplanet.co.jp/en/company/
