RE: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jurg-



Thanks for that instructive reference to the Berkley etal. Paper.  It suggests 
likely plasma LENFR mechanisms and connects metal hydride LENR with the Rossi, 
Mills, ball lightening folks,  etal.   LENR like events.  The list of 
references is also revealing as to who is doing the research in plasma LENR.



However, Your answer does not answer Robins question about your model’s 
accurate energy calculations.



Separately there are tables of numerous measured isomeric energy states, which 
could be compared directly with the detailed calculations of your physical 6-D 
modeling.   Are you or anyone else doing such calculations in way of validating 
you models of nuclei?



Bob Cook



__


From: Jürg Wyttenbach 
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 4:15:52 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely 
tobetheprecursor to all future devices

If it can be exactly calculated, why do you say "about 500 eV"?

There are almost always different energies that couple. The formulas
give the exact energies for then individual contributions but depending
on the interaction you have to count in the change in charge induced
classic potential change or the coupling with the proton magnetic moment
as seen in https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.03400.pdf 1000
+-250eV.

Jürg

Am 18.07.19 um 21:34 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:
> In reply to  Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:37:44 +0200:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>> In the Hydrogen LENR (?) the H-H --> H*-H* condensation produces about
>> 500eV of magnetic potential energy due to SO(4)  spin coupling of the
>> perturbative proton mass. This can exactly be calculated.
> If it can be exactly calculated, why do you say "about 500 eV"?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>
>

--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

If it can be exactly calculated, why do you say "about 500 eV"?

There are almost always different energies that couple. The formulas 
give the exact energies for then individual contributions but depending 
on the interaction you have to count in the change in charge induced 
classic potential change or the coupling with the proton magnetic moment 
as seen in https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.03400.pdf 1000 
+-250eV.


Jürg

Am 18.07.19 um 21:34 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:

In reply to  Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:37:44 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]

In the Hydrogen LENR (?) the H-H --> H*-H* condensation produces about
500eV of magnetic potential energy due to SO(4)  spin coupling of the
perturbative proton mass. This can exactly be calculated.

If it can be exactly calculated, why do you say "about 500 eV"?


Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success





--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[mixent]

In reply to  Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:37:44 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]
>In the Hydrogen LENR (?) the H-H --> H*-H* condensation produces about 
>500eV of magnetic potential energy due to SO(4)  spin coupling of the 
>perturbative proton mass. This can exactly be calculated. 

If it can be exactly calculated, why do you say "about 500 eV"?


Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

As said:

Most of the energy is coming from electron shrinkage, with the addition of the
occasional nuclear reaction where the energy is carried by charged heavy
particles and is primarily converted to heat.


In the Hydrogen LENR (?) the H-H --> H*-H* condensation produces about 
500eV of magnetic potential energy due to SO(4)  spin coupling of the 
perturbative proton mass. This can exactly be calculated. This single 
amount of energy is to low to attach to the proton magnetic moment to 
further induce a higher order perturbative mass spin coupling. With 
Deuterium like in the Mizuno case everything works as expected. Thus 
LENR in the H-H case needs an aggregate of many H* pairs similar to 
Mills Hydrino idea but now with physical explanation... The exception is 
7-Li that can directly react with H*. See Lipinskis.


NPP2.0 exactly explains, with highest possible precision, how LENR 
energy is produced and how the nuclear structure changes. Unluckily the 
model is not suited for undergraduate bloggers as you need some basic, 
but higher level knowledge of topology and an understanding of the 6 
dimensions of SO(4).


Please try to understand the real mass structure of the 
particles/nucleus and why/how in LENR fusion the perturbative (lower 
dimensional)  mass has to be released.


And of course, *please* stop to use/cite the fringe SM approach/ideas 
for dense matter like exchange particles, strong force, see of quarks etc...


Jürg


Am 17.07.19 um 22:41 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:28:37 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

Well that is simple. If fusion was was a viable ongoing process during the
LENR reaction, then there should be lots of gamma rays and neutrons
produced, and LENR experimenters would all be dead in short order. But LENR
is safe as safe can be just like light coming from a light bulb. Please
explain how this is happening.

Most of the energy is coming from electron shrinkage, with the addition of the
occasional nuclear reaction where the energy is carried by charged heavy
particles and is primarily converted to heat.

This is what I consider to be the most likely explanation, though I don't rule
out others, including yours.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success





--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Axil

Your nonsensical posts now hit the fan.

If you ever had high school physics/mechanics you should understand why 
there can be no hard fusion radiation in LENR.


The only exceptions are: Target nucleus unstable and overloading of the 
energy down scaling path. The later effect is what we use.


Jürg



Am 17.07.19 um 22:28 schrieb Axil Axil:
Well that is simple. If fusion was was a viable ongoing process during 
the LENR reaction, then there should be lots of gamma rays and 
neutrons produced, and LENR experimenters would all be dead in short 
order. But LENR is safe as safe can be just like light coming from a 
light bulb. Please explain how this is happening.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:19 PM > wrote:


In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:10:15 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The one undeniable aspect of this ferrosilicon transmutation
example is the
>shear volume of unexplained material produced. In 11 weeks, an
extra volume
>of 327.25 tons of  "anomalous" ferrosilicon output was unaccountably
>produced. Even a bookkeeper in the back-office could see that
something is
>not adding up.  327.25 tons of transmutation should have produced
lots of
>excess energy, but it did not.

On the contrary, it is very deniable, and I have done so
exhaustively in the
past. Enough already, find another example to support your pet theory.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

I believe that symmetry has had its day in the Sun. Physics has exploited
symmetry for all that it is worth and now it is a completely dry hole. But
I also believe that dualism the kissing cousin of symmetry has got some
more insights to give to science. The dualism between superconductivity,
black holes, and Bose condensates could unearth some new paths forward for
LENR.

Nuclear activity is detectable whenever Bose condensation is not
established firmly withing the LENR reaction. This lack of condensation is
when neutrons are detected and unstable isotopes are produced.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:31 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:08:50 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >So fusion only occurs infrequently. But why then is there NEVER any
> >neutrons detected? Why are the the transmutation produces ALWAYS stable?
>
> 1) There are occasionally a few neutrons detected. Try searching for
> neutrons on
> LENR-CANR. However I suspect that most of the nuclear reactions that occur
> are
> probably neutron transfer reactions, which by definition don't produce free
> neutrons.
>
> 2) The reaction products are not always stable, see early paper by Tom
> Passel
> (sp?).
>
> The sort of nuclear reaction one gets (if any) would depend on the
> reactants
> used. Furthermore, nature prefers to create stable nuclei whenever
> possible,
> because the nuclear force packs the nucleons as densely as it can,
> resulting in
> a minimum energy nucleus, which by definition is stable. Therefore, given a
> choice of multiple reaction pathways, those that produce stable nuclei are
> more
> likely to be taken.
>
> Note that with fission reactions of heavy nuclei (U, Pu etc.) this is
> nearly
> impossible, due to an excess of neutrons.
>
> However one might expect that a neutron transfer reaction starting out
> from D
> might sometimes produce radioactive nuclei, e.g.
>
> D + Ni58 => H + Ni59 which is a medium long half-life beta emitter.
>
> Though also possible is D2 (shrunken molecule) + Ni58 => Ni60 + H2. (double
> neutron transfer).
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:08:50 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>So fusion only occurs infrequently. But why then is there NEVER any
>neutrons detected? Why are the the transmutation produces ALWAYS stable?

1) There are occasionally a few neutrons detected. Try searching for neutrons on
LENR-CANR. However I suspect that most of the nuclear reactions that occur are
probably neutron transfer reactions, which by definition don't produce free
neutrons.

2) The reaction products are not always stable, see early paper by Tom Passel
(sp?).

The sort of nuclear reaction one gets (if any) would depend on the reactants
used. Furthermore, nature prefers to create stable nuclei whenever possible,
because the nuclear force packs the nucleons as densely as it can, resulting in
a minimum energy nucleus, which by definition is stable. Therefore, given a
choice of multiple reaction pathways, those that produce stable nuclei are more
likely to be taken.

Note that with fission reactions of heavy nuclei (U, Pu etc.) this is nearly
impossible, due to an excess of neutrons.

However one might expect that a neutron transfer reaction starting out from D
might sometimes produce radioactive nuclei, e.g.

D + Ni58 => H + Ni59 which is a medium long half-life beta emitter.

Though also possible is D2 (shrunken molecule) + Ni58 => Ni60 + H2. (double
neutron transfer).
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

So fusion only occurs infrequently. But why then is there NEVER any
neutrons detected? Why are the the transmutation produces ALWAYS stable?

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:41 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:28:37 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Well that is simple. If fusion was was a viable ongoing process during the
> >LENR reaction, then there should be lots of gamma rays and neutrons
> >produced, and LENR experimenters would all be dead in short order. But
> LENR
> >is safe as safe can be just like light coming from a light bulb. Please
> >explain how this is happening.
>
> Most of the energy is coming from electron shrinkage, with the addition of
> the
> occasional nuclear reaction where the energy is carried by charged heavy
> particles and is primarily converted to heat.
>
> This is what I consider to be the most likely explanation, though I don't
> rule
> out others, including yours.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:28:37 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Well that is simple. If fusion was was a viable ongoing process during the
>LENR reaction, then there should be lots of gamma rays and neutrons
>produced, and LENR experimenters would all be dead in short order. But LENR
>is safe as safe can be just like light coming from a light bulb. Please
>explain how this is happening.

Most of the energy is coming from electron shrinkage, with the addition of the
occasional nuclear reaction where the energy is carried by charged heavy
particles and is primarily converted to heat.

This is what I consider to be the most likely explanation, though I don't rule
out others, including yours.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

Well that is simple. If fusion was was a viable ongoing process during the
LENR reaction, then there should be lots of gamma rays and neutrons
produced, and LENR experimenters would all be dead in short order. But LENR
is safe as safe can be just like light coming from a light bulb. Please
explain how this is happening.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:19 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:10:15 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The one undeniable aspect of this ferrosilicon transmutation example is
> the
> >shear volume of unexplained material produced. In 11 weeks, an extra
> volume
> >of 327.25 tons of  "anomalous" ferrosilicon output was unaccountably
> >produced. Even a bookkeeper in the back-office could see that something is
> >not adding up.  327.25 tons of transmutation should have produced lots of
> >excess energy, but it did not.
>
> On the contrary, it is very deniable, and I have done so exhaustively in
> the
> past. Enough already, find another example to support your pet theory.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:10:15 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The one undeniable aspect of this ferrosilicon transmutation example is the
>shear volume of unexplained material produced. In 11 weeks, an extra volume
>of 327.25 tons of  "anomalous" ferrosilicon output was unaccountably
>produced. Even a bookkeeper in the back-office could see that something is
>not adding up.  327.25 tons of transmutation should have produced lots of
>excess energy, but it did not.

On the contrary, it is very deniable, and I have done so exhaustively in the
past. Enough already, find another example to support your pet theory.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

The one undeniable aspect of this ferrosilicon transmutation example is the
shear volume of unexplained material produced. In 11 weeks, an extra volume
of 327.25 tons of  "anomalous" ferrosilicon output was unaccountably
produced. Even a bookkeeper in the back-office could see that something is
not adding up.  327.25 tons of transmutation should have produced lots of
excess energy, but it did not.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 3:06 PM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Dear Axil
>
> When the flowers of corruption intrude "so called" scientific journals,
> then we must ask about the seriousness of the people that allowed the "go
> on" for this publication.
>
> Did you ever think about what equipment is available to measure the load
> of furnace ?? "Friendly losses" are a main problem of basic building
> industries.
>
> I hope that you and other stop to mention this Joke story.
>
> Of course the mentioned reaction is possible and also Urutskov found
> energy neutral transmutations as even far more could by found by Proton 21.
> People that follow & know the field are aware of this since many years.
>
> There is no LENR theory since 30 years and thus we cannot "flush 10 years
> of LENR theory down the toilet". All so called theories are nothing more
> than a collection of non mathematical facts,rules & hopes.
>
> The problem is that people claiming a theory like Widom only
> manipulate the "unsatisfied feelings" of the field, with ideas that cannot
> 100% be excluded...
>
> Jürg
>
> Am 17.07.19 um 20:08 schrieb Axil Axil:
>
> Dear Bob,
>
> We have been through this situation more than once. For some reason people
> just can;t believe it. I understand that it is difficult to flush 10 years
> of LENR theory down the toilet, but it must be done to get to the truth.
>
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf
>
>
> 7. Puzzle of the Missing Nuclear Energy
>
> A worth noting feature of the Silcal observations was that there was no
> dramatic change whatsoever in the energy
> dissipation. Using the estimated energy release values of 17.13 MeV/atom
> of Si or 49.58 MeV per atom of Fe given in
> Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it can be
> shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal
> transmutation, the power generated should have been the equivalent of the
> total thermal power generated by hundreds
> of 1000MWe nuclear power stations. However, in our plant there was no
> evidence of such massive amounts of nuclear
> energy being released throughout the 11-week period, giving a handle to
> the skeptics to question our claims of ton
> level elemental transmutations. In this context it is worth noting that
> nobody in published LENR literature (to the
> best of our knowledge) has established a clear correlation between the
> quantum of transmutation products generated
> in carbon arc and the expected nuclear heat release based on atomic mass
> considerations. On the other hand neither
> has any publication claimed that the Carbon Arc experiment violates
> Einstein’s E = mc2 dictum. Thus if indeed the
> Silcal transmutation claims are confirmed it would clearly point to the
> operation of new Science wherein transmutation
> could be occurring without the accompaniment of the expected nuclear
> energy release.
> In the context of these remarks the arguments of Daniel Szumski elaborated
> in his “Least Action Nuclear Process”
> (LANP) Theory appear relevant. We learnt about Szumski’s work through his
> paper presented at ICCF 20 conference
> [13]. Szumski who has taken great pains to analyze in detail the
> transmutation observations of George Miley (see
> www.LeastActionNuclearProcess.com) argues that both endothermic and
> exothermic nuclear reactions can and do occur
> concurrently in LENR experiments, partly or wholly cancelling out net
> energy release.
>
> *In fact he has referred to some experimental observations of Mizuno
> wherein transmutations have reportedly been observed by him not accompanied
> by energy release.* Szumski is thus not at all surprised by our
> observation of “energy neutral” transmutation
> reactions
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:43 AM bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Axil.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not remember a mass balance analysis of the Indian foundry changes
>> in total mass wjth apparent transmutations.  I doubt the huge loss of mass
>> you have suggested actually happened.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From:* Axil Axil 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:47:50 AM
>> *To:* vortex-l
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely
>> tobetheprecursor to all future devices
>>
>>
>> There is a natural tendency in the formulation of LENR theory to ignore
>> or flat out deny the existence of outlying or contraindicated  LENR
>> processes that are generally observed and proven by observation but
>> 

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Dear Axil

When the flowers of corruption intrude "so called" scientific journals, 
then we must ask about the seriousness of the people that allowed the 
"go on" for this publication.


Did you ever think about what equipment is available to measure the load 
of furnace ?? "Friendly losses" are a main problem of basic building 
industries.


I hope that you and other stop to mention this Joke story.

Of course the mentioned reaction is possible and also Urutskov found 
energy neutral transmutations as even far more could by found by Proton 
21. People that follow & know the field are aware of this since many years.


There is no LENR theory since 30 years and thus we cannot "flush 10 
years of LENR theory down the toilet". All so called theories are 
nothing more than a collection of non mathematical facts,rules & hopes.


The problem is that people claiming a theory like Widom only 
manipulate the "unsatisfied feelings" of the field, with ideas that 
cannot 100% be excluded...


Jürg

Am 17.07.19 um 20:08 schrieb Axil Axil:

Dear Bob,

We have been through this situation more than once. For some reason 
people just can;t believe it. I understand that it is difficult to 
flush 10 years of LENR theory down the toilet, but it must be done to 
get to the truth.


http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf 



7. Puzzle of the Missing Nuclear Energy

A worth noting feature of the Silcal observations was that there was 
no dramatic change whatsoever in the energy
dissipation. Using the estimated energy release values of 17.13 
MeV/atom of Si or 49.58 MeV per atom of Fe given in
Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it can 
be shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal
transmutation, the power generated should have been the equivalent of 
the total thermal power generated by hundreds
of 1000MWe nuclear power stations. However, in our plant there was no 
evidence of such massive amounts of nuclear
energy being released throughout the 11-week period, giving a handle 
to the skeptics to question our claims of ton
level elemental transmutations. In this context it is worth noting 
that nobody in published LENR literature (to the
best of our knowledge) has established a clear correlation between the 
quantum of transmutation products generated
in carbon arc and the expected nuclear heat release based on atomic 
mass considerations. On the other hand neither
has any publication claimed that the Carbon Arc experiment violates 
Einstein’s E = mc2 dictum. Thus if indeed the
Silcal transmutation claims are confirmed it would clearly point to 
the operation of new Science wherein transmutation
could be occurring without the accompaniment of the expected nuclear 
energy release.
In the context of these remarks the arguments of Daniel Szumski 
elaborated in his “Least Action Nuclear Process”
(LANP) Theory appear relevant. We learnt about Szumski’s work through 
his paper presented at ICCF 20 conference
[13]. Szumski who has taken great pains to analyze in detail the 
transmutation observations of George Miley (see
www.LeastActionNuclearProcess.com 
) argues that both 
endothermic and exothermic nuclear reactions can and do occur
concurrently in LENR experiments, partly or wholly cancelling out net 
energy release. */_In fact he has referred to
some experimental observations of Mizuno wherein transmutations have 
reportedly been observed by him not accompanied
by energy release._/* Szumski is thus not at all surprised by our 
observation of “energy neutral” transmutation

reactions

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:43 AM bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
 > wrote:


Dear Axil.

I do not remember a mass balance analysis of the Indian foundry
changes in total mass wjth apparent transmutations.  I doubt the
huge loss of mass you have suggested actually happened.

Bob Cook




*From:* Axil Axil mailto:janap...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:47:50 AM
*To:* vortex-l
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely
tobetheprecursor to all future devices

There is a natural tendency in the formulation of LENR theory to
ignore or flat out deny the existence of outlying or
contraindicated  LENR processes that are generally observed and
proven by observation but conflict with preconceived  notions of
LENR reality.

One of these observations is that transmutation of elements in
LENR does not for the most part yield energy: gamma, heat, light,
particles, and loses mass.

These counter indicators include biological transmutation, the
associated very safe and benign environment that LENR occurs in,
and the unexplained loss of mass and/or energy where that 

Re: FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

Dear Bob,

We have been through this situation more than once. For some reason people
just can;t believe it. I understand that it is difficult to flush 10 years
of LENR theory down the toilet, but it must be done to get to the truth.

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf


7. Puzzle of the Missing Nuclear Energy

A worth noting feature of the Silcal observations was that there was no
dramatic change whatsoever in the energy
dissipation. Using the estimated energy release values of 17.13 MeV/atom of
Si or 49.58 MeV per atom of Fe given in
Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it can be
shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal
transmutation, the power generated should have been the equivalent of the
total thermal power generated by hundreds
of 1000MWe nuclear power stations. However, in our plant there was no
evidence of such massive amounts of nuclear
energy being released throughout the 11-week period, giving a handle to the
skeptics to question our claims of ton
level elemental transmutations. In this context it is worth noting that
nobody in published LENR literature (to the
best of our knowledge) has established a clear correlation between the
quantum of transmutation products generated
in carbon arc and the expected nuclear heat release based on atomic mass
considerations. On the other hand neither
has any publication claimed that the Carbon Arc experiment violates
Einstein’s E = mc2 dictum. Thus if indeed the
Silcal transmutation claims are confirmed it would clearly point to the
operation of new Science wherein transmutation
could be occurring without the accompaniment of the expected nuclear energy
release.
In the context of these remarks the arguments of Daniel Szumski elaborated
in his “Least Action Nuclear Process”
(LANP) Theory appear relevant. We learnt about Szumski’s work through his
paper presented at ICCF 20 conference
[13]. Szumski who has taken great pains to analyze in detail the
transmutation observations of George Miley (see
www.LeastActionNuclearProcess.com) argues that both endothermic and
exothermic nuclear reactions can and do occur
concurrently in LENR experiments, partly or wholly cancelling out net
energy release.

*In fact he has referred tosome experimental observations of Mizuno wherein
transmutations have reportedly been observed by him not accompaniedby
energy release.* Szumski is thus not at all surprised by our observation of
“energy neutral” transmutation
reactions

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:43 AM bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Axil.
>
>
>
> I do not remember a mass balance analysis of the Indian foundry changes in
> total mass wjth apparent transmutations.  I doubt the huge loss of mass you
> have suggested actually happened.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
> 
> --
> *From:* Axil Axil 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:47:50 AM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely
> tobetheprecursor to all future devices
>
>
> There is a natural tendency in the formulation of LENR theory to ignore or
> flat out deny the existence of outlying or contraindicated  LENR processes
> that are generally observed and proven by observation but conflict with
> preconceived  notions of LENR reality.
>
>
>
>
>
> One of these observations is that transmutation of elements in LENR does
> not for the most part yield energy: gamma, heat, light, particles, and
> loses mass.
>
>
>
>
>
> These counter indicators include biological transmutation, the associated
> very safe and benign environment that LENR occurs in, and the unexplained
> loss of mass and/or energy where that loss is absolutely required by any
> proposed theory.
>
>
>
>
>
> I have in mind the production of ferrosilicon in India where an electric
> arc processing method transmutes 4.5 tons of iron and silicon each day from
> carbon, oxygen and other ambient elements inside the environment of the
> electric arc blast furnace.
>
>
>
>
>
> The outsized amount of transmutation of so much mass every day should
> produce enough energy to meet the power needs of Europe for a year, and yet
> that huge amount of energy production is not observed.
>
>
>
>
>
> Transmutation in the LENR reaction for the most part occurs under a state
> of quantum mechanical superposition where that energy produced and the mass
> exposed to the LENR reaction is permanently lost to our reality.
>
>
>
>
>
> This argument about hydrogen fusion is pointless because the energy
> produced by this reaction is invisible to our observation. The issue is
> that the weirdness of quantum mechanics is made manifest to our observation
> and we cannot understand that it is happening.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:54 AM JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *From: *H LV 
>>
>>
>>
>>- How much of the energy in a nuclear reaction is actually due to
>>mass change?
>>
>>
>>

FW: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor to all future devices

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Dear Axil.

I do not remember a mass balance analysis of the Indian foundry changes in 
total mass wjth apparent transmutations.  I doubt the huge loss of mass you 
have suggested actually happened.

Bob Cook



From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:47:50 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely tobetheprecursor 
to all future devices

There is a natural tendency in the formulation of LENR theory to ignore or flat 
out deny the existence of outlying or contraindicated  LENR processes that are 
generally observed and proven by observation but conflict with preconceived  
notions of LENR reality.


One of these observations is that transmutation of elements in LENR does not 
for the most part yield energy: gamma, heat, light, particles, and loses mass.


These counter indicators include biological transmutation, the associated very 
safe and benign environment that LENR occurs in, and the unexplained loss of 
mass and/or energy where that loss is absolutely required by any proposed 
theory.


I have in mind the production of ferrosilicon in India where an electric arc 
processing method transmutes 4.5 tons of iron and silicon each day from carbon, 
oxygen and other ambient elements inside the environment of the electric arc 
blast furnace.


The outsized amount of transmutation of so much mass every day should produce 
enough energy to meet the power needs of Europe for a year, and yet that huge 
amount of energy production is not observed.


Transmutation in the LENR reaction for the most part occurs under a state of 
quantum mechanical superposition where that energy produced and the mass 
exposed to the LENR reaction is permanently lost to our reality.


This argument about hydrogen fusion is pointless because the energy produced by 
this reaction is invisible to our observation. The issue is that the weirdness 
of quantum mechanics is made manifest to our observation and we cannot 
understand that it is happening.


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:54 AM JonesBeene 
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:

From: H LV


  *   How much of the energy in a nuclear reaction is actually due to mass 
change?

Is there any reason to think that it would not be all?

Even if sequential hydrogen cluster formation is responsible for the gain, and 
there is no fusion at all - the ultimate source of that heat would still be 
nuclear mass.