Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012 + NANOR Status

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 10:16 AM 8/8/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Please watch this from minute
15:00 onward:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw

There's a rough transcript at

http://ecatnews.com/?p=2291 
Photo of some attendees and ID's ... including Alexandros Xanthoulis
(Defkalion GT founder) 
A lot of comments (cautiously) optimistic on Celani and Hagelstein, now
totally against Rossi.
Nicholas Payne

Reply 
August 8, 2012 at 6:09 pm
I just emailed his [Hagelstein's] secretary Ms Davco who says the NANOR
is out being tested elsewhere, but he hopes to have a better demo of it
at MIT later this year.

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Peter Gluck]

dear Jones,

Pisntelli (and FYI the Defkalion process) does not work with deuterium- not
at all. It is rather difficult to determine the transmutation products at
the Piantelli process.

DGTG in  their process they are using very good analytical techniques but
it is difficult to calculate the correlations due to the extreme complexity
of the raections. Both transmutaions and nucleosynthesis takes place and
both contribute to the heat energy.

Peter

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  Peter,
>
> ** **
>
> Can you cite a Piantelli paper where deuterium was absent, but where the
> transmutation products were well-correlated with excess energy?
>
> ** **
>
> I think not. This is the same problem that Krivit finds with the lame
> correlation of helium to excess energy in Pd-D. I’m not saying that Krivit
> is correct on that, but he does make valid points about both the deficiency
> and sloppiness of reputed evidence. 
>
> ** **
>
> QM by itself – should provide measureable transmutation products,
> especially if there is deuterium tunneling or Oppenheimer stripping. Helium
> is ubiquitous to the extent it should always be seen. No one doubts some of
> both is there almost every time it is looked for.
>
> ** **
>
> Problem is, the occurrence is miniscule, or either not well measured in
> proportionality, and in isotope mix, or is thousands of times too low to
> account for the thermal heat. Finding transmutation means nothing by
> itself, but measuring the mass of these products, and isotope ratio, mean
> everything.
>
> ** **
>
> Bottom line – because of quantum mechanics alone the experimenter should
> find measurable transmutation and helium almost every time that hydrogen
> has been exposed to electric fields over time - but QM alone is responsible
> for them and in tiny amounts statistically - and thus the thermal gain
> which is seen in the run is most likely unrelated.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Peter Gluck 
>
> ** **
>
> Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to
> Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John
> Hadjichristos today at NI Week.
>
> Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear.
>
> ** **
>
> Peter
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
> wrote:
>
> On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names
> cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit
> admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even
> close to commensurate with the excess heat produced.
>
> ** **
>
> Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the
> dreaded N-word.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
>
> Cluj, Romania
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Peter,

 

Can you cite a Piantelli paper where deuterium was absent, but where the
transmutation products were well-correlated with excess energy?

 

I think not. This is the same problem that Krivit finds with the lame
correlation of helium to excess energy in Pd-D. I'm not saying that Krivit
is correct on that, but he does make valid points about both the deficiency
and sloppiness of reputed evidence. 

 

QM by itself - should provide measureable transmutation products, especially
if there is deuterium tunneling or Oppenheimer stripping. Helium is
ubiquitous to the extent it should always be seen. No one doubts some of
both is there almost every time it is looked for.

 

Problem is, the occurrence is miniscule, or either not well measured in
proportionality, and in isotope mix, or is thousands of times too low to
account for the thermal heat. Finding transmutation means nothing by itself,
but measuring the mass of these products, and isotope ratio, mean
everything.

 

Bottom line - because of quantum mechanics alone the experimenter should
find measurable transmutation and helium almost every time that hydrogen has
been exposed to electric fields over time - but QM alone is responsible for
them and in tiny amounts statistically - and thus the thermal gain which is
seen in the run is most likely unrelated.

 

 

From: Peter Gluck 

 

Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to
Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John
Hadjichristos today at NI Week.

Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear.

 

Peter

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
wrote:

On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:

Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names
cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit
admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even
close to commensurate with the excess heat produced.

 

Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the
dreaded N-word.

Cheers,
S.A.





 

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck

Cluj, Romania

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

 

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Peter Gluck]

Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to
Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John
Hadjichristos today at NI Week.
Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear.

Peter

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:
>
>> Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names
>> cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit
>> admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even
>> close to commensurate with the excess heat produced.
>>
>
> Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the
> dreaded N-word.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:

Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or 
LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit admission that NI 
has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the 
excess heat produced.


Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the 
dreaded N-word.


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Note that CEO Dr James Truchard is no newcomer to the field, with his interest 
beginning in 1989. Can't go back much further than that.

Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names 
cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit 
admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even 
close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. 

They have been involved with Rossi, Defkalion, and Celani so that makes me 
think this fellow has a lot of inside information to share - and we should 
encourage him to do a history of his involvement.



-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
Akira Shirakawa wrote:

> Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw


That's great!

Finally, we are seeing some real progress. I think I'll put in the News 
section at LENR-CANR.org. If I have time today . . .

I'll put a link to Krivit's report as well.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jed Rothwell]

Akira Shirakawa wrote:


Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw


That's great!

Finally, we are seeing some real progress. I think I'll put in the News 
section at LENR-CANR.org. If I have time today . . .


I'll put a link to Krivit's report as well.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Alain Sepeda]

I've just make quick computation showing, with celani data in the paper and
at NIWeek,
that :
- chemical can be ruled out, even wit >95% anomaly error
- if surface is the only active environment, using micrometric particle
lead to power density of 10kW/g of powder, 10 times above the claim of
Rossi and Defkalion

I quote also someone focusing on data in the Celani paper, that show that
temperature alone can trigger the reaction, that even if electricity make
it better, it is not needed.
So with good engineering self-sustain is possible via insulation...

it can also explain why defkalion use a spark to light up the reactor,
since electro-migration accelerate the reaction, restructure the material,
beside the simple heating effect.

the topic where there are the discussion:
http://lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=353&p=1579#p1565

this small paper contain key data, far from being anecdotal.


2012/8/8 Jed Rothwell 

> Robert Lynn  wrote:
>
>  Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above.
>> http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf
>>
>
> That's pretty good! I uploaded it already.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jed Rothwell]

Robert Lynn  wrote:

Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above.
> http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf
>

That's pretty good! I uploaded it already.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

This idea that "radiation can be stopped" in an unshielded robust device is
generally incorrect. The claim indicates the proponent is unfamiliar with
Maxwell-Boltzmann energy distributions.

There are few physical phenomena which are simpler and more certain to
measure in tiny amounts than nuclear radiation, even the kinds that are
"easily shielded". I can measure the radiation signal from bananas for
goodness sake. That is pico-watt level, or less. 

There is absolutely no way to hide detectable relics of radiation in a
device like Celani's, which is responsible for thermal energy in the tens of
watts, without thick lead shielding weighing hundreds of pounds. Even then,
measurable bremsstrahlung makes it through (but it may not be statistically
relevant).

However, photon radiation in the UV and EUV range or lower can be 100%
absorbed - but this does NOT have nuclear, as its prime origin. True - the
weakest beta emitters like tritium are not easily picked up by the old-style
CD Geiger counters but can be detected with scintillators - even when most
of the beta radiation (99.99+%) is seemingly shielded by a piece of glass.
Frascati has these detectors, of course. This is where Boltzmann comes in.

The problem with the "easily stopped" suggestion is in the failure to
appreciate the extremes of the statistical distribution - the so-called
"Boltzmann's tail", and the sensitivity of good meters. It is that tiny
percentage on the far end that always gets detected. Whether it is relevant
or not is another issue.

We can be almost certain that any known nuclear reactions, supplying heat at
the 10-20 watt level would be easily detectable in an unshielded device such
as Celani's. The fact that a wisp of radiation is seen on startup indicates
that QM reactions are involved. The Ni-H phenomenon is not an alternative
version of Pd-D - it is based on a different reaction (but that reaction
could be a predecessor of fusion when adequate deuterium is present). It is
counter-productive to try to frame it this a different version of Pd-D, in
my opinion. The natural ratio of deuterium at ~250 parts per million is way
too low to account for the energy seen, especially over long runs.

Bottom Line: Left open is a completely "new to science" type of nuclear
reaction, never before documented, and having lots of energy with no
radiation signature - but ask yourself this: "is that new kind of nuclear
reaction more likely, or less likely, to be found than alternative proved
reactions? One such alternative, newly discovered, is gain from the DCE
(dynamical Casimir effect) which after all - is "known to science" (but at
lower energy levels).

I'm choosing to go with what is basically known to happen scientifically,
but suggesting that it can be engineered to be more robust. That does not
require another miracle, just good engineering. The DCE was first documented
a little over a year ago, and this is an excellent time to propose that a
version of it at nano-dimensions, is the driving force in Ni-H.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424111/first-observation-of-the-dynamic
al-casimir-effect/

Can anyone really claim that the Celani's treatment of the wire to give nano
geometry, or Ahern's powder treatment to give nano geometry - are merely
coincidental to the success in this field? Nobody knows what Rossi has done,
but his patent claims "nanometric" and the likelihood in all of this is that
the geometry itself is the sine qua non of thermal gain in Ni-H.


From: alain.coetmeur@gmail.

No a good conclusion.
it can be nuclear  without externally visible radiation.
Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta),
and phonons could dissipate energy too.
neutrons could be slow and undetectable,
charged particles could be easily stopped...

let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to
new facts , like in 89



<>

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-07 10:55, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,


Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Robert Lynn]

Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above.
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf

Excellent level of detail, including exact alloy used (isotan44, a constant
electrical resistivity alloy) should allow for many replication attempts -
and just one flawless public replication experiment could change this field
forever.

Virgin wires didn't work.  Preparation methodology of metal surface isn't
totally clear, though there are many hints.  Talks of resistively heating
to 1000°C + with rapid cooling, I guess it is something to do with
oxidising and reducing the surface, as selective formation of CuO is
mentioned, but he also talks of acid etching.  Temperatures only 250-400°C
peak, pressures up to 8bar peak (initially Ar-H mix, then all H).  If Rossi
is any guide there may be more to come at higher temperatures.

I would guess that knowing the alloy used there are likely to be a ton of
people soon experimenting with this material.  And it should not be hard to
make a nano-powder out of it, or try exposing it to a plasma source (like a
spark plug).

Exciting times.

On 8 August 2012 05:19, Eric Walker  wrote:

> Le Aug 7, 2012 à 12:45 PM, Alain Sepeda  a écrit :
>
> > No a good conclusion.
> > it can be nuclear  without externally visible radiation.
> > Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta),
> > and phonons could dissipate energy too.
> > neutrons could be slow and undetectable,
> > charged particles could be easily stopped...
> >
> > let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to new facts ,
> like in 89
>
> Agreed.  If hydrogen goes in and helium comes out (or, for the sake of
> argument, copper :), whatever the mechanism, how is it not "nuclear"?
>
> (An earlier thread now leads me to suspect the reactant to be the small
> fraction of deuterium in the hydrogen.)
>
> Eric
>

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Eric Walker]

Le Aug 7, 2012 à 12:45 PM, Alain Sepeda  a écrit :

> No a good conclusion.
> it can be nuclear  without externally visible radiation.
> Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta),
> and phonons could dissipate energy too.
> neutrons could be slow and undetectable,
> charged particles could be easily stopped...
> 
> let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to new facts , like 
> in 89

Agreed.  If hydrogen goes in and helium comes out (or, for the sake of 
argument, copper :), whatever the mechanism, how is it not "nuclear"?

(An earlier thread now leads me to suspect the reactant to be the small 
fraction of deuterium in the hydrogen.)

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Robert Lynn]

Nice to see some positive results coming in from someone who is prepared to
share their results.  Any word on temperature of reaction?

On 7 August 2012 09:55, Akira Shirakawa  wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> This new blogpost by Steven Krivit is certainly worth a read. It's about a
> LENR demo Celani made and showed at NIWeek 2012, gathering much interest. A
> success, I'd say!
>
> We'll probably read more straight from the source (Celani) later on
> 22passi as well:
>
> http://blog.newenergytimes.**com/2012/08/07/lenr-gets-**
> major-boost-from-national-**instruments/
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Alain Sepeda]

No a good conclusion.
it can be nuclear  without externally visible radiation.
Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta),
and phonons could dissipate energy too.
neutrons could be slow and undetectable,
charged particles could be easily stopped...

let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to new facts ,
like in 89

2012/8/7 Jones Beene 

>
>
> There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at
> all. This is NOT a nuclear reaction.
>
> Jones
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Dam! I just went and looked at the Romanowski abstract again, and its title is:
" Density Functional Calculations of the Hydrogen Adsorption on Transition 
Metals and Their Alloys. An Application to Catalysis"   
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la981339q

I was just serendipitously following links yesterday at APL or some other 
journal site, and saw an interesting titled article which I thought might be 
relevant to LENR, and it was all about how Density Functional Theory (DFT) was 
more accurately explaining nuclear processes... I'll see if I can find it.

-Mark

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:50 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

So it wasn’t Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe, but the Polish Alloyist with 
the Constantin wire! 
:-)

And the first Clue is actually a little earlier in msg44287:

REF: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44287.html
-mi

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:10 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

Well - vortex may have played a part, behind the scenes, in this work. Why?

The first paragraph of Celani's paper mentions the Romanowski paper and the 
Constantan alloy he is using.

As to how that gets back to this us - it was first mentioned about a year ago, 
see:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44320.html

Ahern had first used the Romanowski paper as a guideline to have this 
particular alloy made at Ames, which he used in his EPRI work; following which 
he then sent a sample to Celani, which he used to replicate Brian's result, and 
now Celani has made it into a wire, which is specially treated and gives even 
better results than before. Actually the results are almost the same 22 watts 
seen by Ahern, but now the instrumentation is much better and the wire may 
weigh less than the powder and the run time is longer. It is probably etched to 
give nano-porosity.

There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
This is NOT a nuclear reaction.

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Short summary
- Celani's demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek
2012 started, on Saturday
- On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where it got 
turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of
55 hours as of writing.
- The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently stabilized 
at about 14W
- Testing performed in front of a wide audience
- Celani's testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which was 
already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)



New paper by Celani et al. attached:

http://goo.gl/K1T0M

* * *

Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as LENR 
device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter

Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. 
Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. 
L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.

  Abstract -- Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of new 
Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of Hydrogen (H2) 
and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some possibility to generate 
anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use
H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. 
Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, claims 
by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further investigated. 
Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen instead of Deuterium can 
be made and could help the understanding of the phenomena involved (nuclear 
origin?) because use of such isotopes.

* * *

A meaty update!
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Yes, thanks for setting the record straight on that point. I tend to get a bit 
carried away in having to continually make the point that the excess energy in 
this reaction is not nuclear to an overwhelming degree. 

Small amounts of radiation are seen, often on startup. The radiation is seldom 
more than a factor of 100,000 in net energy compared to the thermal energy seen 
(if averaged over a few hours, and less if averaged over a few days). Otherwise 
shielding would be needed. There is no residual radiation after shutdown in the 
early stages.

There could be, and probably is (depending on the materials used) an 
accumulation of residual radiation over time simply due to QM probability of 
f/H interaction ... and after many months of operation this would need to be 
dealt with; but Celani is not there yet..

Jones



-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Jones Beene wrote:

> There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
> This is NOT a nuclear reaction.

They did observe "X rays (and/or gamma emission)" under certain 
conditions however (see section IV.23, page 4).

Cheers
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

So it wasn’t Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe, but the Polish Alloyist with 
the Constantin wire! 
:-)

And the first Clue is actually a little earlier in msg44287:

REF: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44287.html
-mi

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:10 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

Well - vortex may have played a part, behind the scenes, in this work. Why?

The first paragraph of Celani's paper mentions the Romanowski paper and the 
Constantan alloy he is using.

As to how that gets back to this us - it was first mentioned about a year ago, 
see:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44320.html

Ahern had first used the Romanowski paper as a guideline to have this 
particular alloy made at Ames, which he used in his EPRI work; following which 
he then sent a sample to Celani, which he used to replicate Brian's result, and 
now Celani has made it into a wire, which is specially treated and gives even 
better results than before. Actually the results are almost the same 22 watts 
seen by Ahern, but now the instrumentation is much better and the wire may 
weigh less than the powder and the run time is longer. It is probably etched to 
give nano-porosity.

There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
This is NOT a nuclear reaction.

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Short summary
- Celani's demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek
2012 started, on Saturday
- On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where it got 
turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of
55 hours as of writing.
- The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently stabilized 
at about 14W
- Testing performed in front of a wide audience
- Celani's testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which was 
already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)



New paper by Celani et al. attached:

http://goo.gl/K1T0M

* * *

Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as LENR 
device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter

Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. 
Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. 
L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.

  Abstract -- Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of new 
Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of Hydrogen (H2) 
and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some possibility to generate 
anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use
H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. 
Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, claims 
by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further investigated. 
Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen instead of Deuterium can 
be made and could help the understanding of the phenomena involved (nuclear 
origin?) because use of such isotopes.

* * *

A meaty update!
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Hi Jones,

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Collective contributed, and possibly was 
onto it first.  For the most part, I think the group is made up of people 
willing to look at ALL the facts, wherever they lead; and also to the fact that 
having a group of open-minded people means one is more likely to have a better 
collection of facts from which to sift through.

Most importantly, you state,
"There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
This is NOT a nuclear reaction."

Then is it something completely different than what is going on in LENR?

If it isn't nuclear, does that mean it’s a totally new chemical reaction (as 
ridiculous as that seems), or are we looking at something intermediate 
(nuclistry!)?  Either way, this would seem to be very new physics. 

Cudos as well, since you were the one who found and brought the Romanowski 
paper to our attention... 

-Mark Iverson

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:10 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

Well - vortex may have played a part, behind the scenes, in this work. Why?

The first paragraph of Celani's paper mentions the Romanowski paper and the 
Constantan alloy he is using.

As to how that gets back to this us - it was first mentioned about a year ago, 
see:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44320.html

Ahern had first used the Romanowski paper as a guideline to have this 
particular alloy made at Ames, which he used in his EPRI work; following which 
he then sent a sample to Celani, which he used to replicate Brian's result, and 
now Celani has made it into a wire, which is specially treated and gives even 
better results than before. Actually the results are almost the same 22 watts 
seen by Ahern, but now the instrumentation is much better and the wire may 
weigh less than the powder and the run time is longer. It is probably etched to 
give nano-porosity.

There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
This is NOT a nuclear reaction.

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Short summary
- Celani's demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek
2012 started, on Saturday
- On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where it got 
turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of
55 hours as of writing.
- The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently stabilized 
at about 14W
- Testing performed in front of a wide audience
- Celani's testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which was 
already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)



New paper by Celani et al. attached:

http://goo.gl/K1T0M

* * *

Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as LENR 
device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter

Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. 
Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. 
L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.

  Abstract -- Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of new 
Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of Hydrogen (H2) 
and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some possibility to generate 
anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use
H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. 
Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, claims 
by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further investigated. 
Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen instead of Deuterium can 
be made and could help the understanding of the phenomena involved (nuclear 
origin?) because use of such isotopes.

* * *

A meaty update!
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-07 20:09, Jones Beene wrote:


There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
This is NOT a nuclear reaction.


They did observe "X rays (and/or gamma emission)" under certain 
conditions however (see section IV.23, page 4).


Cheers
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Well - vortex may have played a part, behind the scenes, in this work. Why?

The first paragraph of Celani's paper mentions the Romanowski paper and the 
Constantan alloy he is using.

As to how that gets back to this us - it was first mentioned about a year ago, 
see:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44320.html

Ahern had first used the Romanowski paper as a guideline to have this 
particular alloy made at Ames, which he used in his EPRI work; following which 
he then sent a sample to Celani, which he used to replicate Brian's result, and 
now Celani has made it into a wire, which is specially treated and gives even 
better results than before. Actually the results are almost the same 22 watts 
seen by Ahern, but now the instrumentation is much better and the wire may 
weigh less than the powder and the run time is longer. It is probably etched to 
give nano-porosity.

There is no beta or gamma radiation happening with the excess energy at all. 
This is NOT a nuclear reaction.

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Short summary
- Celani's demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek 
2012 started, on Saturday
- On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where 
it got turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of 
55 hours as of writing.
- The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently 
stabilized at about 14W
- Testing performed in front of a wide audience
- Celani's testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which 
was already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)



New paper by Celani et al. attached:

http://goo.gl/K1T0M

* * *

Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as 
LENR device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter

Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. 
Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. 
L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.

  Abstract -- Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of 
new Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of 
Hydrogen (H2) and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some 
possibility to generate anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use 
H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. 
Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, 
claims by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further 
investigated. Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen 
instead of Deuterium can be made and could help the understanding of the 
phenomena involved (nuclear origin?) because use of such isotopes.

* * *

A meaty update!
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-07 10:55, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,


Update from 22passi from Celani himself (Passerini contacted him by phone):

Google translated, Google shortened link to the blogpost:
http://goo.gl/v4Opj

Short summary
- Celani's demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek 
2012 started, on Saturday
- On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where 
it got turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of 
55 hours as of writing.
- The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently 
stabilized at about 14W

- Testing performed in front of a wide audience
- Celani's testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which 
was already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)




New paper by Celani et al. attached:

http://goo.gl/K1T0M

* * *

Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as 
LENR device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter


Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. 
Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. 
L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.


 Abstract -- Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of 
new Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of 
Hydrogen (H2) and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some 
possibility to generate anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use 
H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. 
Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, 
claims by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further 
investigated. Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen 
instead of Deuterium can be made and could help the understanding of the 
phenomena involved (nuclear origin?) because use of such isotopes.


* * *

A meaty update!
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Notice the last comment ...

... she's [sic] back


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/08/07/lenr-gets-major-boost-from-national-instruments/

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:


> As far as I know, the first person to advocate the use of nickel was
> Martin Fleischmann, FRS.


The reason he was interested is obvious. Early on he estimated how much
energy can be produced with palladium, given the total world stocks and
mining output. as I recall he determined that palladium can only produce
about a third of the energy we need. Perhaps it was more . . . I do not
recall. Anyway, it wasn't enough. So he was hoping to find another host
metal. As I recall even in 1989 he said people should look at Ni.

After hearing his analysis, I investigated how much palladium there is in
the world and what the maximum power density can be. I did a
back-of-the-envelope estimate based on the temperatures in catalytic
converters, and the amount of thin-film palladium they use. I too concluded
that there would not be be enough palladium to produce all of the energy
needed, and the best use of palladium would be in baseline central electric
power generators, where the duty cycle is close to 100%, and all of the
palladium can be recycled.

If the palladium transmutes into something else, all bets are off. You
could not produce a significant fraction of the world's energy in that case.

I discussed all this in chapter 2 of the book.

Very early on, many people including me had our fingers crossed hoping that
Ni or Ti could be used instead of Pd. I do not recall a single instance of
anyone making fun of the concept or dismissing results. People such as
McKubre and I felt pessimistic about it because Srinivasan and others could
not replicate.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jed Rothwell]

That is exciting! It seems everyone is in Austin this week. I wish I could
have gone but I have to prepare for ICCF17. It seems they will all be there
next week.

That is good report by Krivit. If he had only left out the B.S. about
opposition to Ni-H research it would have been better.

As far as I know, the first person to advocate the use of nickel was Martin
Fleischmann, FRS. One of the first and most diligent efforts to replicate
Ni-H was done by Srinivasan at SRI. So it makes no sense to declare that
the leading people in this field are somehow opposed to it.

- Jed