RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Robin—


Robin--

In fact some of the energy used to heat the primary coolant in the fission Navy 
reactors is due to the secondary reaction you have to attributed to Nemo 
regarding the JV novel.  Most was due to normal heat conduction from fission 
reactions within clad fuel elements.  The heating in the
water was splitting of water molecules into H and O by gamma rays and hence 
recombination of the H and O as Nemo indicated.  I think it was less than 10% 
of the primary coolant enthalpy increase.  More heat entered the coolant from 
gamma energy attenuation in internal thermal shields.  The total gamma heating 
was about a 10% addition as I recall.  It varied per each fission depending 
upon the on products that happened.

Nemo neglected to reveal the proprietary design aspects of the JV reactor.  
Nemo being the Captain did not have a need to know exactly what the basic 
energy source was and was clearly ignorant of that information (assuming he was 
spreading false news.

Bob


In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:51:58 
+:
Hi Bob,


Minor difference here is that Verne obtained the energy from water, whereas in 
your case it comes from Uranium. ;)
Obtaining energy from water could mean either some form of dense hydrogen or 
fusion or both.

[snip]
>I spent 18 years in the design, fabrication and  of nuclear fission reactor 
>powered subs—some underwater at significant depths for days at a time.  They 
>would travel 20,000 leagues and more without refueling.
>
>Bob Cook
>
>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>From: mix...@bigpond.com<mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 11:31 AM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting
>
>On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 03:23:03 +, "bobcook39...@hotmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>What first hand experience are you referring to?
>
>>Jones—
>>
>>Jules Verne was science fiction in the 1800’s.  I know first hand that it was 
>>NOT science fiction.
>>
>>Bob Cook
>[snip]
>Regards,
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>local asymmetry = temporary success
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[mixent]

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Wed, 1 Jan 2020 03:51:42 
+:
Hi Bob,

Nemo explained that the power came from splitting water & recombining the 
gasses IIRC. 
Normally that would be considered impossible, however if a Mills type reaction 
occurs, with water molecules as the catalyst,
then it would make sense.

>The subs I sailed in were powered by steam—water that was heated by a nuclear 
>potential energy source  via steam generators.   I’m not sure what Jules 
>thought was the energy source for his sub’s reactor.
[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

The subs I sailed in were powered by steam—water that was heated by a nuclear 
potential energy source  via steam generators.   I’m not sure what Jules 
thought was the energy source for his sub’s reactor.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: mix...@bigpond.com<mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 11:16 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:51:58 
+:
Hi Bob,


Minor difference here is that Verne obtained the energy from water, whereas in 
your case it comes from Uranium. ;)
Obtaining energy from water could mean either some form of dense hydrogen or 
fusion or both.

[snip]
>I spent 18 years in the design, fabrication and  of nuclear fission reactor 
>powered subs—some underwater at significant depths for days at a time.  They 
>would travel 20,000 leagues and more without refueling.
>
>Bob Cook
>
>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>From: mix...@bigpond.com<mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 11:31 AM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting
>
>On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 03:23:03 +, "bobcook39...@hotmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>What first hand experience are you referring to?
>
>>Jones—
>>
>>Jules Verne was science fiction in the 1800’s.  I know first hand that it was 
>>NOT science fiction.
>>
>>Bob Cook
>[snip]
>Regards,
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>local asymmetry = temporary success
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[mixent]

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:51:58 
+:
Hi Bob,


Minor difference here is that Verne obtained the energy from water, whereas in 
your case it comes from Uranium. ;)
Obtaining energy from water could mean either some form of dense hydrogen or 
fusion or both.

[snip]
>I spent 18 years in the design, fabrication and  of nuclear fission reactor 
>powered subs—some underwater at significant depths for days at a time.  They 
>would travel 20,000 leagues and more without refueling.
>
>Bob Cook
>
>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>From: mix...@bigpond.com<mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 11:31 AM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting
>
>On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 03:23:03 +, "bobcook39...@hotmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>What first hand experience are you referring to?
>
>>Jones—
>>
>>Jules Verne was science fiction in the 1800’s.  I know first hand that it was 
>>NOT science fiction.
>>
>>Bob Cook
>[snip]
>Regards,
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>local asymmetry = temporary success
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

I spent 18 years in the design, fabrication and  of nuclear fission reactor 
powered subs—some underwater at significant depths for days at a time.  They 
would travel 20,000 leagues and more without refueling.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: mix...@bigpond.com<mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 11:31 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 03:23:03 +, "bobcook39...@hotmail.com" 
 wrote:

Hi Bob,

What first hand experience are you referring to?

>Jones—
>
>Jules Verne was science fiction in the 1800’s.  I know first hand that it was 
>NOT science fiction.
>
>Bob Cook
[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[mixent]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 03:23:03 +, "bobcook39...@hotmail.com" 
 wrote:

Hi Bob,

What first hand experience are you referring to?

>Jones—
>
>Jules Verne was science fiction in the 1800’s.  I know first hand that it was 
>NOT science fiction.
>
>Bob Cook
[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jurg--

I  am planning to be CH the first week in April and would love to get together 
with you and any other folks  that may be interested in SO(4) modeling.

I will also visit  my cardiologist in Bern and stop by Brig to visit friends 
there on our way to Vence FR. for a 80th birthday celebration of an old friend 
and about 12 other close friends.  It is planned for April 9 to 14.

If this would work for you, I will try to contact/arrange for others interested 
in the theory to join us in a seminar setting for two or three days of learning 
and discussion.

Let me know what you think or provide an  alternative that I could run with.

Bob





















s




From: Jürg Wyttenbach<mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 4:51 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Unluckily I do not read E-cat world.

Jurg—

You are getting some pretty good “press” form several regulars on the E-Cat 
World blog.


But some electric Universe guys from south America do recommend my work.

The more I understand the details of SO(4) physics the better I can directly 
draw conclusions to the live that is showing up around us. The true fascination 
is the connection to Fibonacci and the golden ratio we already see in the 
proton-Hydrogen (1,1,2,3,5) wave structure.

Once people really understand how matter works they will laugh and joke about 
what nonsense the mad nuclear & particle physicists crowed produced for the 
last 100 years.

Within some years the courses about QED/QFT/QCD/LQCD... will only be taught in 
history classes...

But the establishment will try to keep the stake as long as possible because 
mental Eunuchs have no means to get a new income from their lost brains...

SO(4) physics is very demanding and I'm not the person to do it for the rest of 
my live. If people are willing to learn they should organize a workshop where 
we can discuss not only why SO(4) physics works. I can also explain in depth 
why all the old models fail or simply are not adequate.

All new models bring many new questions and people that join early will be the 
kings for the future - if they can contribute something important. Its a once 
in history time chance to bring real new knowledge into the field.

I was a first time supporter of Philippe H. as it is clear that we need all 
levels of abstraction to better understand how matter is built. Of course there 
is only one physics but there are many ways to tell/sketch the story.

J.W.



Am 28.12.19 um 21:03 schrieb 
bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com>:
Jurg—

You are getting some pretty good “press” form several regulars on the E-Cat 
World blog.

Also I noted that Springer publishers are changing their tune regarding 
publishing Norman Cook’s Book/theory regarding a nuclear structure.

BEWARE  of SPRINGER PUBLISHING.

See the comments  regarding the following post on ECW:
  “Video: How the Electric Universe Model Can Help LENR Overcome Problems 
(Edwin Kaal)”

It seems Springer no longer accepts new theory! And it  has decided NOT to 
publish Cook’s book any longer.  That’s to bad.

IMHO the World needs a physical theory regarding nuclear
systems of matter to replace the empirical (mathematically inaccurate) model 
with many arbitrary constants, virtual particles and unreal singularities.

As I have noted in the past, W. Stubbs evaluation of high energy electron 
scattering experiments since the 1960’s validates a structure of clusters of 
electrons and positrons in protons (and neutrons).  P. Hatt’s assessments of 
nuclear structure with determination of various binding energies are also 
pertinent to the validation  provided by the scattering experiments.

Bob Cook


From: Jürg Wyttenbach<mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:00 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

UDH/Hydrino!

There is only one nature and thus one physics. Mills created the name/concept 
Hydrino to circumvent the Santilli Patent. The precision of any Hydrino 
calculation is at best 1% as in all standard model guesses that are potential 
only models.

The SO(4) version of H*/D* is in very good agreement (495.8eV e bond as 
measured ) with hihly reliable Mills measurement of H*-H*. Holmlids UDH 
measurements are not precise and may be off by more than 30% due to cluster 
effects.

Further the SO(4) model explains the electron potential measured in:


Emission of highly excited electronic states of potassium from cryptomelane 
nanorods

P. Stelmachowski,a P. Legutko T. Jakubek P. Indyk a Z. Sojk a L. Holmlid b and 
A. Kotarb a, PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY CHEMICAL PHYSICS · SEPTEMBER 2015

This paper shows exactly how SO(4) spin matter behaves. The current name is 
Rydberg matter but effectively there are two forms. Normal Rydberg matter is 
just bas

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

Jules Verne was science fiction in the 1800’s.  I know first hand that it was 
NOT science fiction.

Bob Cook

From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 12:23 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Jones—

If dense H has accumulated on Earth as you suggest, it may sink deeper into the 
crust and Mantle where the conditions are  ripe for LENR to happen—i.e., 
geothermal heating.’

  One of the moons of Jupiter may be reacting dense H to produce steam geysers 
at the surface of an ocean of ice.  I doubt that frictional tidal loading would 
be of sufficient magnitude to produce enough enthalpy in a steam jet  to avoid 
condensation; however the near vacuum at the moon’s surface may be the 
operative parameter allowing the steam to remain as a gas.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 3:07 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

The possibility of harvesting dense solar hydrogen - formed in the corona of 
the sun and carried to earth by solar wind - in significant quantities, and 
then deposited in the oceans - would be worth a closer look.

Even if the concentration in the oceans was was parts per billion - magnetic 
harvesting could possibly be used to collect dense hydrogen as a cheap and 
renewable option for a transportation fuel.

Sounds like science fiction, no doubt, but not ruled out by experiment AFAIK ,..


Andrew Meulenberg wrote:


> In comparing the sub-atom-sized hydrino with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we 
> might see growth (to a steady-state) of "compact" molecules and of heavier 
> nuclei (via nucleo-synthesis) in a non-stellar environment. I think that 
> there is room for both species to exist and to "hide" in the terrestrial 
> environment.

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

R0bin—

That process was also running through my mind.

Bob Cook


From: mix...@bigpond.com<mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 2:42 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Sat, 28 Dec 2019 20:22:55 
+:
Hi,
[snip]
>Jones—
>
>If dense H has accumulated on Earth as you suggest, it may sink deeper into 
>the crust and Mantle where the conditions are  ripe for LENR to happen—i.e., 
>geothermal heating.’

Dense hydrogen is probably created from water under influence of high pressure, 
high temperature, and the presence of certain chemicals, in subduction zones.
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Unluckily I do not read E-cat world.

Jurg—

You are getting some pretty good “press” form several regulars on the 
E-Cat World blog.



But some electric Universe guys from south America do recommend my work.

The more I understand the details of SO(4) physics the better I can 
directly draw conclusions to the live that is showing up around us. The 
true fascination is the connection to Fibonacci and the golden ratio we 
already see in the proton-Hydrogen (1,1,2,3,5) wave structure.


Once people really understand how matter works they will laugh and joke 
about what nonsense the mad nuclear & particle physicists crowed 
produced for the last 100 years.


Within some years the courses about QED/QFT/QCD/LQCD... will only be 
taught in history classes...


But the establishment will try to keep the stake as long as possible 
because mental Eunuchs have no means to get a new income from their lost 
brains...


SO(4) physics is very demanding and I'm not the person to do it for the 
rest of my live. If people are willing to learn they should organize a 
workshop where we can discuss not only why SO(4) physics works. I can 
also explain in depth why all the old models fail or simply are not 
adequate.


All new models bring many new questions and people that join early will 
be the kings for the future - if they can contribute something 
important. Its a once in history time chance to bring real new knowledge 
into the field.


I was a first time supporter of Philippe H. as it is clear that we need 
all levels of abstraction to better understand how matter is built. Of 
course there is only one physics but there are many ways to tell/sketch 
the story.


J.W.



Am 28.12.19 um 21:03 schrieb bobcook39...@hotmail.com:


Jurg—

You are getting some pretty good “press” form several regulars on the 
E-Cat World blog.


Also I noted that Springer publishers are changing their tune 
regarding publishing Norman Cook’s Book/theory regarding a nuclear 
structure.



  BEWARE  of SPRINGER PUBLISHING.

See the comments  regarding the following post on ECW:


    “Video: How the Electric Universe Model Can Help LENR Overcome
  Problems (Edwin Kaal)”

It seems Springer no longer accepts new theory! And it  has 
decided NOT to publish Cook’s book any longer.  That’s to bad.


IMHO the World needs a physical theory regarding nuclear

systems of matter to replace the empirical (mathematically inaccurate) 
model with many arbitrary constants, virtual particles and unreal 
singularities.


As I have noted in the past, W. Stubbs evaluation of high energy 
electron scattering experiments since the 1960’s validates a structure 
of clusters of electrons and positrons in protons (and neutrons).  P. 
Hatt’s assessments of nuclear structure with determination of various 
binding energies are also pertinent to the validation  provided by the 
scattering experiments.


Bob Cook

*From: *Jürg Wyttenbach <mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>
*Sent: *Monday, December 23, 2019 4:00 PM
*To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
*Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

UDH/Hydrino!

There is only one nature and thus one physics. Mills created the 
name/concept Hydrino to circumvent the Santilli Patent. The precision 
of any Hydrino calculation is at best 1% as in all standard model 
guesses that are potential only models.


The SO(4) version of H*/D* is in very good agreement (495.8eV e bond 
as measured ) with hihly reliable Mills measurement of H*-H*. Holmlids 
UDH measurements are not precise and may be off by more than 30% due 
to cluster effects.


Further the SO(4) model explains the electron potential measured in:

Emission of highly excited electronic states of potassium from 
cryptomelane nanorods


P. Stelmachowski,a P. Legutko T. Jakubek P. Indyk a Z. Sojk a L. 
Holmlid b and A. Kotarb a, PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY CHEMICAL PHYSICS · 
SEPTEMBER 2015


This paper shows exactly how SO(4) spin matter behaves. The current 
name is Rydberg matter but effectively there are two forms. Normal 
Rydberg matter is just based on SO(4) electron-electron spin coupling 
- an SC effect, where as the induction of H*-H* leads to a change in 
the p-e potential that even can be seen at 500C. This is the best 
proof why LENR also at T > 500C works as it is based on the the only 
deep orbit Hydrogen that has a sound physical model.


Holmlid still references the Winterberg model for UDH, which is based 
on 2 fringe assumptions .. but still fewer than SM...


J.W.

Am 23.12.19 um 18:14 schrieb bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com>:


Jones—

An environment with lots of neutrino and positrons may be required
for nucleon production, since these primary entities are
apparently  needed in nucleons for stability.  I think their
magnetic dipoles are key attractive forces to facilitate the
necessary stability.

Bob Cook

Bob Cook

*From: *Andrew

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[mixent]

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Sat, 28 Dec 2019 20:22:55 
+:
Hi,
[snip]
>Jones—
>
>If dense H has accumulated on Earth as you suggest, it may sink deeper into 
>the crust and Mantle where the conditions are  ripe for LENR to happen—i.e., 
>geothermal heating.’

Dense hydrogen is probably created from water under influence of high pressure, 
high temperature, and the presence of certain chemicals, in subduction zones.
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

If dense H has accumulated on Earth as you suggest, it may sink deeper into the 
crust and Mantle where the conditions are  ripe for LENR to happen—i.e., 
geothermal heating.’

  One of the moons of Jupiter may be reacting dense H to produce steam geysers 
at the surface of an ocean of ice.  I doubt that frictional tidal loading would 
be of sufficient magnitude to produce enough enthalpy in a steam jet  to avoid 
condensation; however the near vacuum at the moon’s surface may be the 
operative parameter allowing the steam to remain as a gas.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 3:07 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

The possibility of harvesting dense solar hydrogen - formed in the corona of 
the sun and carried to earth by solar wind - in significant quantities, and 
then deposited in the oceans - would be worth a closer look.

Even if the concentration in the oceans was was parts per billion - magnetic 
harvesting could possibly be used to collect dense hydrogen as a cheap and 
renewable option for a transportation fuel.

Sounds like science fiction, no doubt, but not ruled out by experiment AFAIK ,..


Andrew Meulenberg wrote:


> In comparing the sub-atom-sized hydrino with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we 
> might see growth (to a steady-state) of "compact" molecules and of heavier 
> nuclei (via nucleo-synthesis) in a non-stellar environment. I think that 
> there is room for both species to exist and to "hide" in the terrestrial 
> environment.

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jurg—

You are getting some pretty good “press” form several regulars on the E-Cat 
World blog.

Also I noted that Springer publishers are changing their tune regarding 
publishing Norman Cook’s Book/theory regarding a nuclear structure.

BEWARE  of SPRINGER PUBLISHING.

See the comments  regarding the following post on ECW:
  “Video: How the Electric Universe Model Can Help LENR Overcome Problems 
(Edwin Kaal)”

It seems Springer no longer accepts new theory! And it  has decided NOT to 
publish Cook’s book any longer.  That’s to bad.

IMHO the World needs a physical theory regarding nuclear
systems of matter to replace the empirical (mathematically inaccurate) model 
with many arbitrary constants, virtual particles and unreal singularities.

As I have noted in the past, W. Stubbs evaluation of high energy electron 
scattering experiments since the 1960’s validates a structure of clusters of 
electrons and positrons in protons (and neutrons).  P. Hatt’s assessments of 
nuclear structure with determination of various binding energies are also 
pertinent to the validation  provided by the scattering experiments.

Bob Cook


From: Jürg Wyttenbach<mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:00 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

UDH/Hydrino!

There is only one nature and thus one physics. Mills created the name/concept 
Hydrino to circumvent the Santilli Patent. The precision of any Hydrino 
calculation is at best 1% as in all standard model guesses that are potential 
only models.

The SO(4) version of H*/D* is in very good agreement (495.8eV e bond as 
measured ) with hihly reliable Mills measurement of H*-H*. Holmlids UDH 
measurements are not precise and may be off by more than 30% due to cluster 
effects.

Further the SO(4) model explains the electron potential measured in:


Emission of highly excited electronic states of potassium from cryptomelane 
nanorods

P. Stelmachowski,a P. Legutko T. Jakubek P. Indyk a Z. Sojk a L. Holmlid b and 
A. Kotarb a, PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY CHEMICAL PHYSICS · SEPTEMBER 2015

This paper shows exactly how SO(4) spin matter behaves. The current name is 
Rydberg matter but effectively there are two forms. Normal Rydberg matter is 
just based on SO(4) electron-electron spin coupling - an SC effect, where as 
the induction of H*-H* leads to a change in the p-e potential that even can be 
seen at 500C. This is the best proof why LENR also at T > 500C works as it is 
based on the the only deep orbit Hydrogen that has a sound physical model.

Holmlid still references the Winterberg model for UDH, which is based on 2 
fringe assumptions .. but still fewer than SM...

J.W.


Am 23.12.19 um 18:14 schrieb 
bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com>:
Jones—

An environment with lots of neutrino and positrons may be required for nucleon 
production, since these primary entities are apparently  needed in nucleons for 
stability.  I think their magnetic dipoles are key attractive forces to 
facilitate the necessary stability.

Bob Cook

Bob Cook


From: Andrew Meulenberg<mailto:mules...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 7:21 AM
To: VORTEX<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Jones,

You have raised an interesting point. In comparing the sub-atom-sized hydrino 
with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we might see growth (to a steady-state) of 
"compact" molecules and of heavier nuclei (via nucleo-synthesis) in a 
non-stellar environment. I think that there is room for both species to exist 
and to "hide" in the terrestrial environment.

Andrew

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:32 AM JonesBeene 
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Andrew Meulenberg<mailto:mules...@gmail.com>


  *   I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom to a 
neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my responding 
to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

Another related topic to this is the ubiquitous nature of hydronium, and 
whether dense hydrogen can be a natural component of our oceans..

At any given moment in all the worlds oceans, water is technically not H2O but 
instead  consists of a known percentage of hydronium, even though the pH of the 
ocean itself is alkaline. This should not be possible in theory since the 
alkalinity should cancel out the positive charge immediately.

One wonders if Mills conception of “hydrino hydride” or a version of it - would 
explain this situation since hydronium in the form of a stable anion would be 
both dense and charged with greater than expected lifetime as an ion in 
solution. This also offers and explanation of where all the hydrinos (which are 
made in the solar 

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

UDH/Hydrino!

There is only one nature and thus one physics. Mills created the 
name/concept Hydrino to circumvent the Santilli Patent. The precision of 
any Hydrino calculation is at best 1% as in all standard model guesses 
that are potential only models.


The SO(4) version of H*/D* is in very good agreement (495.8eV e bond as 
measured ) with hihly reliable Mills measurement of H*-H*. Holmlids UDH 
measurements are not precise and may be off by more than 30% due to 
cluster effects.


Further the SO(4) model explains the electron potential measured in:

Emission of highly excited electronic states of potassium from 
cryptomelane nanorods


P. Stelmachowski,a P. Legutko T. Jakubek P. Indyk a Z. Sojk a L. Holmlid 
b and A. Kotarb a, PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY CHEMICAL PHYSICS · SEPTEMBER 2015



This paper shows exactly how SO(4) spin matter behaves. The current name 
is Rydberg matter but effectively there are two forms. Normal Rydberg 
matter is just based on SO(4) electron-electron spin coupling - an SC 
effect, where as the induction of H*-H* leads to a change in the p-e 
potential that even can be seen at 500C. This is the best proof why LENR 
also at T > 500C works as it is based on the the only deep orbit 
Hydrogen that has a sound physical model.


Holmlid still references the Winterberg model for UDH, which is based on 
2 fringe assumptions .. but still fewer than SM...


J.W.


Am 23.12.19 um 18:14 schrieb bobcook39...@hotmail.com:


Jones—

An environment with lots of neutrino and positrons may be required for 
nucleon production, since these primary entities are apparently 
 needed in nucleons for stability.  I think their magnetic dipoles are 
key attractive forces to facilitate the necessary stability.


Bob Cook

Bob Cook

*From: *Andrew Meulenberg <mailto:mules...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 23, 2019 7:21 AM
*To: *VORTEX <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
*Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Jones,

You have raised an interesting point. In comparing the sub-atom-sized 
hydrino with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we might see growth (to a 
steady-state) of "compact" molecules and of heavier nuclei (via 
nucleo-synthesis) in a non-stellar environment. I think that there is 
room for both species to exist and to "hide" in the terrestrial 
environment.


Andrew

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:32 AM JonesBeene <mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:


Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for Windows 10

*From: *Andrew Meulenberg <mailto:mules...@gmail.com>

  * I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a
femto-H atom to a neutron (as a proton with an occupied
deeper-electron orbit), so my responding to your comments has
been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

Another related topic to this is the ubiquitous nature of
hydronium, and whether dense hydrogen can be a natural component
of our oceans..

At any given moment in all the worlds oceans, water is technically
not H2O but instead  consists of a known percentage of hydronium,
even though the pH of the ocean itself is alkaline. This should
not be possible in theory since the alkalinity should cancel out
the positive charge immediately.

One wonders if Mills conception of “hydrino hydride” or a version
of it - would explain this situation since hydronium in the form
of a stable anion would be both dense and charged with greater
than expected lifetime as an ion in solution. This also offers and
explanation of where all the hydrinos (which are made in the solar
corona and transported to earth via the solar wind) accumulate.

Jones



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[Jones Beene]

 The possibility of harvesting dense solar hydrogen - formed in the corona of 
the sun and carried to earth by solar wind - in significant quantities, and 
then deposited in the oceans - would be worth a closer look. 

Even if the concentration in the oceans was was parts per billion - magnetic 
harvesting could possibly be used to collect dense hydrogen as a cheap and 
renewable option for a transportation fuel. 

Sounds like science fiction, no doubt, but not ruled out by experiment AFAIK ,..


Andrew Meulenberg wrote:  

> In comparing the sub-atom-sized hydrino with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we 
> might see growth (to a steady-state) of "compact" molecules and of heavier 
> nuclei (via nucleo-synthesis) in a non-stellar environment. I think that 
> there is room for both species to exist and to "hide" in the terrestrial 
> environment.

  

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

An environment with lots of neutrino and positrons may be required for nucleon 
production, since these primary entities are apparently  needed in nucleons for 
stability.  I think their magnetic dipoles are key attractive forces to 
facilitate the necessary stability.

Bob Cook

Bob Cook


From: Andrew Meulenberg<mailto:mules...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 7:21 AM
To: VORTEX<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Jones,

You have raised an interesting point. In comparing the sub-atom-sized hydrino 
with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we might see growth (to a steady-state) of 
"compact" molecules and of heavier nuclei (via nucleo-synthesis) in a 
non-stellar environment. I think that there is room for both species to exist 
and to "hide" in the terrestrial environment.

Andrew

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:32 AM JonesBeene 
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Andrew Meulenberg<mailto:mules...@gmail.com>


  *   I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom to a 
neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my responding 
to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

Another related topic to this is the ubiquitous nature of hydronium, and 
whether dense hydrogen can be a natural component of our oceans..

At any given moment in all the worlds oceans, water is technically not H2O but 
instead  consists of a known percentage of hydronium, even though the pH of the 
ocean itself is alkaline. This should not be possible in theory since the 
alkalinity should cancel out the positive charge immediately.

One wonders if Mills conception of “hydrino hydride” or a version of it - would 
explain this situation since hydronium in the form of a stable anion would be 
both dense and charged with greater than expected lifetime as an ion in 
solution. This also offers and explanation of where all the hydrinos (which are 
made in the solar corona and transported to earth via the solar wind) 
accumulate.

Jones

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Andrew—

Thanks for that update on the ICCF-21 paper you and Jean-Luc prepared.

Several thoughts are renewed by my review of that paper—some physics, and some 
intellectual process:


  1.  Artificial intelligence (AI)  is like the rapid evaluation of ideas 
collected  form a large group of individuals and checked with respect to 
available physical models and their mathematical description for validation.  
The data base of available physical models (particularly the non-popular ones) 
is the key to good AI.

The “IQ” of group intelligence depends upon this same process as AI uses, 
TURTLE—slow but sure.  (Democracy applies the IQ of the society to desirable  
LAWS for social modeling.)

  1.  If one relativistic electron can happen, why cannot more exist, ea., 2 or 
all  atomic electrons? (It may take some additional positrons and neutrinos to 
keep that many electrons together, as in a nucleon.)
  2.  Do we need math model that does not predict a singularity at zero.  I.e., 
one that allows time and space to be quantized dimensions or maybe a function 
of volume of 3 space dimensions?  I discussed this question with an old 
mathematician at a recent party (still within my memory) and he suggested the 
Dirac delta function was close to this suggestion; for reasons he did not 
understand, the math community did not pickup on Dirac’s idea. I WONDER WHY?

Bob Cook





From: Andrew Meulenberg<mailto:mules...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 5:47 AM
To: VORTEX<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

Bob,

Since I have been working on the deep-electron orbit model and its consequences 
(e.g., femto-H and femto-molecules) for the last decade, most of your questions 
have already been answered (see the links below - from ICCF-21- and the 
references therein).
http://coldfusioncommunity.net/pdf/jcmns/v29/353_JCMNS-Vol29.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zQXb-L7L8=136s

Your suggestion about dense water is clearly an interesting extension of this 
work. However, the dense water would be only marginally denser since the 
molecule formed with femto-H and 16O could act as a 18O halo nuclide (not yet 
found, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_nucleus). The fact that 17O and 
18O are stable nuclei means that either halo nucleus (femto-molecules) is less 
stable than the heavier isotopes.

A study of the individual halo nuclides and their decay modes (e.g., 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_boron#Boron-19 vs 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_boron#Boron-8) can give information 
about the nature of the femto-molecular bond formed between the femto-H and a 
heavier nucleus.

I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom to a 
neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my responding 
to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 8:11 PM 
bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com> 
mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Dense hydrogen may react with some other elements to form useful dense 
compounds—maybe dense water.  That may be a problem for biological systems, 
however.  However it may be a good heat transfer medium with a high boiling 
point and a high triple point above that for light water.

In the mid 60’s I remember an incident of the identification of dense 
water—that was the term used by the physics folks I worked with then-- and I 
didn’t think it was fake news.  The subject went dark shortly thereafter.

If dense H can be accelerated by its magnetic moment—I assume it has one—then 
it may act more like a neutron at some energy and fuse at relatively low 
energies.  Dense D or T may even work to fuse at lower temperatures.

I wonder if Mills has done the calculations for a D-heavy—D-heavy fusion?  
T-heavy may not have a decay mode with the close valence electron keeping the 
extra nuclear electrons in tact.  (This assumes the structure of the T isotope 
includes many electrons and positrons as proposed by P. Hatt and validated by 
high energy electron scattering experiments, analyzed by W. Stubbs.

I assume he would call this duetrino fusion.  I would hope the temperature of a 
deutrino plasma would be high enough to avoid a run-away fusion reaction.

Bob Cook

From: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 6:42 AM
To: vortex<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

This water fuel development and another one similar to it - does not mention 
"dense hydrogen" - only efficient water splitting.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-13415-8

This technique is claimed to be the most efficient electrolysis/ 
water-splitting cell yet discovered.

The catalyst used - a mix of iron oxide and nickel are both associated with 
dense hydrogen - either the Mills effect of the Holmlid effect.

T

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[Andrew Meulenberg]

Jones,

You have raised an interesting point. In comparing the sub-atom-sized
hydrino with the nuclear-sized femto-H, we might see growth (to a
steady-state) of "compact" molecules and of heavier nuclei (via
nucleo-synthesis) in a non-stellar environment. I think that there is room
for both species to exist and to "hide" in the terrestrial environment.

Andrew

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:32 AM JonesBeene  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Andrew Meulenberg 
>
>
>
>- I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom
>to a neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my
>responding to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> Another related topic to this is the ubiquitous nature of hydronium, and
> whether dense hydrogen can be a natural component of our oceans..
>
>
>
> At any given moment in all the worlds oceans, water is technically not H2O
> but instead  consists of a known percentage of hydronium, even though the
> pH of the ocean itself is alkaline. This should not be possible in theory
> since the alkalinity should cancel out the positive charge immediately.
>
>
>
> One wonders if Mills conception of “hydrino hydride” or a version of it -
> would explain this situation since hydronium in the form of a stable anion
> would be both dense and charged with greater than expected lifetime as an
> ion in solution. This also offers and explanation of where all the hydrinos
> (which are made in the solar corona and transported to earth via the solar
> wind) accumulate.
>
>
>
> Jones
>

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[JonesBeene]

Oops – a bit of dyslexia there – the hydrino  hydride would be negatively 
charged from the start -  and thus appearing alkaline while stable.

Heck…  maybe that explains the alkalinity of the oceans…

IOW – the negatively charged dense hydrogen from the solar corona causes large 
scale alkalinity as it reaches earth and collects in the ocean.

From: Andrew Meulenberg

➢ I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom to a 
neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my responding 
to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

Another related topic to this is the ubiquitous nature of hydronium, and 
whether dense hydrogen can be a natural component of our oceans.. 

At any given moment in all the worlds oceans, water is technically not H2O but 
instead  consists of a known percentage of hydronium, even though the pH of the 
ocean itself is alkaline. This should not be possible in theory since the 
alkalinity should cancel out the positive charge immediately.

One wonders if Mills conception of “hydrino hydride” or a version of it - would 
explain this situation since hydronium in the form of a stable anion would be 
both dense and charged with greater than expected lifetime as an ion in 
solution. This also offers and explanation of where all the hydrinos (which are 
made in the solar corona and transported to earth via the solar wind) 
accumulate.

Jones

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[JonesBeene]

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Andrew Meulenberg

➢ I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom to a 
neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my responding 
to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

Another related topic to this is the ubiquitous nature of hydronium, and 
whether dense hydrogen can be a natural component of our oceans.. 

At any given moment in all the worlds oceans, water is technically not H2O but 
instead  consists of a known percentage of hydronium, even though the pH of the 
ocean itself is alkaline. This should not be possible in theory since the 
alkalinity should cancel out the positive charge immediately.

One wonders if Mills conception of “hydrino hydride” or a version of it - would 
explain this situation since hydronium in the form of a stable anion would be 
both dense and charged with greater than expected lifetime as an ion in 
solution. This also offers and explanation of where all the hydrinos (which are 
made in the solar corona and transported to earth via the solar wind) 
accumulate.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[Andrew Meulenberg]

 Bob,

Since I have been working on the deep-electron orbit model and its
consequences (e.g., femto-H and femto-molecules) for the last decade, most
of your questions have already been answered (see the links below - from
ICCF-21- and the references therein).
http://coldfusioncommunity.net/pdf/jcmns/v29/353_JCMNS-Vol29.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zQXb-L7L8=136s

Your suggestion about dense water is clearly an interesting extension of
this work. However, the dense water would be only marginally denser since
the molecule formed with femto-H and 16O could act as a 18O halo nuclide
(not yet found, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_nucleus). The fact
that 17O and 18O are stable nuclei means that either halo nucleus
(femto-molecules) is less stable than the heavier isotopes.

A study of the individual halo nuclides and their decay modes (e.g.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_boron#Boron-19 vs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_boron#Boron-8) can give
information about the nature of the femto-molecular bond formed between the
femto-H and a heavier nucleus.

I am presently writing a paper on the transition from a femto-H atom to a
neutron (as a proton with an occupied deeper-electron orbit), so my
responding to your comments has been useful in my thinking. Thank you.

Andrew

On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 8:11 PM bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dense hydrogen may react with some other elements to form useful dense
> compounds—maybe dense water.  That may be a problem for biological systems,
> however.  However it may be a good heat transfer medium with a high boiling
> point and a high triple point above that for light water.
>
>
>
> In the mid 60’s I remember an incident of the identification of dense
> water—that was the term used by the physics folks I worked with then-- and
> I didn’t think it was fake news.  The subject went dark shortly
> thereafter.
>
>
>
> If dense H can be accelerated by its magnetic moment—I assume it has
> one—then it may act more like a neutron at some energy and fuse at
> relatively low energies.  Dense D or T may even work to fuse at lower
> temperatures.
>
>
>
> I wonder if Mills has done the calculations for a D-heavy—D-heavy fusion?
> T-heavy may not have a decay mode with the close valence electron keeping
> the extra nuclear electrons in tact.  (This assumes the structure of the T
> isotope includes many electrons and positrons as proposed by P. Hatt and
> validated by high energy electron scattering experiments, analyzed by W.
> Stubbs.
>
>
>
> I assume he would call this duetrino fusion.  I would hope the temperature
> of a deutrino plasma would be high enough to avoid a run-away fusion
> reaction.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
> *From: *Jones Beene 
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 22, 2019 6:42 AM
> *To: *vortex 
> *Subject: *[Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting
>
>
>
> This water fuel development and another one similar to it - does not
> mention "dense hydrogen" - only efficient water splitting.
>
>
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-13415-8
>
>
>
> This technique is claimed to be the most efficient electrolysis/
> water-splitting cell yet discovered.
>
>
>
> The catalyst used - a mix of iron oxide and nickel are both associated
> with dense hydrogen - either the Mills effect of the Holmlid effect.
>
>
>
> Thus, there is a decent chance that in addition to normal splitting water
> - this technique involves the densification of some of the H2 gas as it
> evolves. No attempt is made to collect it, of course, since the mainstream
> does not accept the findings of Mills or Holmlid, so using the output gas
> itself as secondary catalyst  or excess energy source - was not considered.
>
>
>
> Given the future importance of hydrogen - even migrating to a possible
> "hydrogen economy" in the future - additional catalysis or energy derived
> from utilizing dense hydrogen should be looked at closer (under the
> assumption that UDH is now only an incidental or unplanned part of the
> process and not optimized).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Dense hydrogen may react with some other elements to form useful dense 
compounds—maybe dense water.  That may be a problem for biological systems, 
however.  However it may be a good heat transfer medium with a high boiling 
point and a high triple point above that for light water.

In the mid 60’s I remember an incident of the identification of dense 
water—that was the term used by the physics folks I worked with then-- and I 
didn’t think it was fake news.  The subject went dark shortly thereafter.

If dense H can be accelerated by its magnetic moment—I assume it has one—then 
it may act more like a neutron at some energy and fuse at relatively low 
energies.  Dense D or T may even work to fuse at lower temperatures.

I wonder if Mills has done the calculations for a D-heavy—D-heavy fusion?  
T-heavy may not have a decay mode with the close valence electron keeping the 
extra nuclear electrons in tact.  (This assumes the structure of the T isotope 
includes many electrons and positrons as proposed by P. Hatt and validated by 
high energy electron scattering experiments, analyzed by W. Stubbs.

I assume he would call this duetrino fusion.  I would hope the temperature of a 
deutrino plasma would be high enough to avoid a run-away fusion reaction.

Bob Cook

From: Jones Beene
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 6:42 AM
To: vortex
Subject: [Vo]:Dense hydrogen may facilitate water splitting

This water fuel development and another one similar to it - does not mention 
"dense hydrogen" - only efficient water splitting.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-13415-8

This technique is claimed to be the most efficient electrolysis/ 
water-splitting cell yet discovered.

The catalyst used - a mix of iron oxide and nickel are both associated with 
dense hydrogen - either the Mills effect of the Holmlid effect.

Thus, there is a decent chance that in addition to normal splitting water - 
this technique involves the densification of some of the H2 gas as it evolves. 
No attempt is made to collect it, of course, since the mainstream does not 
accept the findings of Mills or Holmlid, so using the output gas itself as 
secondary catalyst  or excess energy source - was not considered.

Given the future importance of hydrogen - even migrating to a possible 
"hydrogen economy" in the future - additional catalysis or energy derived from 
utilizing dense hydrogen should be looked at closer (under the assumption that 
UDH is now only an incidental or unplanned part of the process and not 
optimized).