Re: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: > Indeed. IMO, there is really only one definitive way to settle the matter. > Build a working prototype proving OU is occurring. Filing a law suit to go > after Grump and his cohorts accomplishes diddly squat . . . > Yes, this is foolish. It makes BLP look bad. I see no upside, and no way they can win. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
>From Lennart, > ... However, to me it is really sad that BLP need to go to court > to resolve this type of issues. IMHO there is no upside for either > party regardless of the outcome. Indeed. IMO, there is really only one definitive way to settle the matter. Build a working prototype proving OU is occurring. Filing a law suit to go after Grump and his cohorts accomplishes diddly squat other than eating up valuable man-hours and financial resources better spent on building the promised prototype. ...to paraphrase a famous saying from a popular movie "If you build it, [they] will come." For now, all the Gump has to say is "Where's the beef! You've been promising us eminent delivery of a quarter pound double cheeseburger for how long now??? I rest my case." IMO, BLP would be wise not to press the matter in court. It might be the primary reason why there hasn't been much said about the matter since. Going forward, seeking damages, IMO, is more likely to end up hurting BLP's image more than any so-called legitimate scientific evidence filed in court claiming verification of scientific findings would show. Again, No cheeseburger? Grump goes free. > The only guys laughing all the way to the bank are the lawyers. yep. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
I agree with you Steven, not much will happen before it can be proven BLP has a product. However, to me it is really sad that BLP need to go to court to resolve this type of issues. IMHO there is no upside for either party regardless of the outcome. The only guys laughing all the way to the bank are the lawyers. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson < orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: > AndyTheGrump? > > > > BLP has it in for Grump as well. They filed a law suit against him and > others. > > > > > http://www.williamslopatto.com/uploads/2/5/8/4/25843913/blacklight_power_inc._complaint.pdf > > > > Have no idea if BLP's complaint has managed to get any traction or not. I > suspect it's gone nowhere. If BLP want's restitution they need to present > to the public a working prototype that proves OU is occurring. Until then I > suspect the Grump and all of his cohorts will remain safe as a bug under > the rug until then... > > > > We're still waiting. > > > > Regards, > > Steven Vincent Johnson > > OrionWorks.com > > zazzle.com/orionworks >
RE: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
AndyTheGrump? BLP has it in for Grump as well. They filed a law suit against him and others. http://www.williamslopatto.com/uploads/2/5/8/4/25843913/blacklight_power_inc._complaint.pdf Have no idea if BLP's complaint has managed to get any traction or not. I suspect it's gone nowhere. If BLP want's restitution they need to present to the public a working prototype that proves OU is occurring. Until then I suspect the Grump and all of his cohorts will remain safe as a bug under the rug until then... We're still waiting. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
I can't see most of the comments because I get a message that there is a coding error. Good luck getting Wiki to change their write up on cold fusion. I got banned from there for arguing with editor AndyTheGrump, who was obviously biased and wrong.
RE: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
Steven, I read the old NYT article just now and yes --- it specifically uses the term "cold fusion" several times in 1956 . wow. and yes, they are talking about muon catalyzed fusion at low temperature - the kind with lots of 24 MeV gamma rays as evidence of the reaction. Even though it was initiated cold, the radiation from the MCF is extremely hot, but does not heat the reactants. Steven Jones also claimed the term "cold fusion" for his muon catalyzed fusion at about the same time as P&F. Clearly either of the two prior announcements could have precedence, if actual history means anything (it doesn't). The problem now is Holmlid - who uses MCF but apparently sees few hot gammas. If he really is doing what he says, he should see very energetic gammas. BTW - the article is quoting from Luis Alvarez at Cal. One of the great Magi. From: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson >From Blaze: > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E03E0D7103FE033A05753C3A9649 D946792D6CF I wonder if the 1956 article actually uses the phrase "Cold Fusion"? I'm not clear on that. I'm assuming it didn't. Interesting piece of research nevertheless. Perhaps someone within Vort Land might like to fork over $3.95 to NYT and get the article. How bout you, Blaze. Based on some of your prior posts you have given me the impression of being someone who may have a few extra bucks laying around, just for gambling occasions like this. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
>From Blaze: > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E03E0D7103FE033A05753C3A9649D946792D6CF > I wonder if the 1956 article actually uses the phrase "Cold Fusion"? I'm not clear on that. I'm assuming it didn't. Interesting piece of research nevertheless. Perhaps someone within Vort Land might like to fork over $3.95 to NYT and get the article. How bout you, Blaze. Based on some of your prior posts you have given me the impression of being someone who may have a few extra bucks laying around, just for gambling occasions like this. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E03E0D7103FE033A05753C3A9649D946792D6CF Cold Fusion of Hydrogen Atoms; A Fourth Method Pulling Together 1956!! On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote: > There's huge consensus about what works though. Why not establish that > as a basis and just say other approaches are open questions? Why does > everyone go to such huge effort to say "pyroelectric fusion which works at > low temperatures isn't cold fusion because it doesn't follow > pons/fleischman experimental apparatus". > > What really annoys me to no end is that the first historical usage of the > term cold fusion actually referred to muon catalyzed fusion!! The whole > term got hijacked by these drama seekers. > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Eric Walker > wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Blaze Spinnaker < >> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The idea that cold fusion doesn't involve hydrogen infused metal is just >>> end-of-times for these people. >>> >> >> It's really hard to sort out what is known from what is conjecture. >> There are some careful experimentalists who have made some very measured >> statements and drawn some very measured conclusions. And then there are >> some popularizers who take those statements and overlay all kinds of >> additional details that do not have a sure foundation, applying what they >> believe to be obvious logic, which, when analyzed more closely, is not >> obvious. >> >>- Does CF involve deuterium? In some cases it appears to. >>- Does CF involve light hydrogen? There's some evidence that it >>might in some cases. >>- Does CF involve lithium? In some cases it might. >>- Does CF involve palladium? Somehow, sometimes. >>- Does CF involve nickel? Maybe, sometimes. >>- Is helium-4 correlated with excess heat? Yes, in a subset of CF >>experiments with very specific systems. >>- Is helium-4 always correlated with excess heat in CF? Hard to say. >>- Is the amount of excess heat indicative of the 23 MeV resulting >>from d+d -> 4He? There was an experiment by a careful researcher that >>suggested that it was in that particular case. >>- Is the amount of excess heat always indicative of the 23 MeV >>resulting from d+d -> 4He? Hard to say. >> >> People want to go well beyond measured statements of this kind. Some are >> willing to manufacture consensus in the process. It's a little hard to >> watch from the sidelines as this kind of thing is done. >> >> Eric >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
There's huge consensus about what works though. Why not establish that as a basis and just say other approaches are open questions? Why does everyone go to such huge effort to say "pyroelectric fusion which works at low temperatures isn't cold fusion because it doesn't follow pons/fleischman experimental apparatus". What really annoys me to no end is that the first historical usage of the term cold fusion actually referred to muon catalyzed fusion!! The whole term got hijacked by these drama seekers. On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Blaze Spinnaker > wrote: > > The idea that cold fusion doesn't involve hydrogen infused metal is just >> end-of-times for these people. >> > > It's really hard to sort out what is known from what is conjecture. There > are some careful experimentalists who have made some very measured > statements and drawn some very measured conclusions. And then there are > some popularizers who take those statements and overlay all kinds of > additional details that do not have a sure foundation, applying what they > believe to be obvious logic, which, when analyzed more closely, is not > obvious. > >- Does CF involve deuterium? In some cases it appears to. >- Does CF involve light hydrogen? There's some evidence that it might >in some cases. >- Does CF involve lithium? In some cases it might. >- Does CF involve palladium? Somehow, sometimes. >- Does CF involve nickel? Maybe, sometimes. >- Is helium-4 correlated with excess heat? Yes, in a subset of CF >experiments with very specific systems. >- Is helium-4 always correlated with excess heat in CF? Hard to say. >- Is the amount of excess heat indicative of the 23 MeV resulting from >d+d -> 4He? There was an experiment by a careful researcher that suggested >that it was in that particular case. >- Is the amount of excess heat always indicative of the 23 MeV >resulting from d+d -> 4He? Hard to say. > > People want to go well beyond measured statements of this kind. Some are > willing to manufacture consensus in the process. It's a little hard to > watch from the sidelines as this kind of thing is done. > > Eric > >
Re: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote: The idea that cold fusion doesn't involve hydrogen infused metal is just > end-of-times for these people. > It's really hard to sort out what is known from what is conjecture. There are some careful experimentalists who have made some very measured statements and drawn some very measured conclusions. And then there are some popularizers who take those statements and overlay all kinds of additional details that do not have a sure foundation, applying what they believe to be obvious logic, which, when analyzed more closely, is not obvious. - Does CF involve deuterium? In some cases it appears to. - Does CF involve light hydrogen? There's some evidence that it might in some cases. - Does CF involve lithium? In some cases it might. - Does CF involve palladium? Somehow, sometimes. - Does CF involve nickel? Maybe, sometimes. - Is helium-4 correlated with excess heat? Yes, in a subset of CF experiments with very specific systems. - Is helium-4 always correlated with excess heat in CF? Hard to say. - Is the amount of excess heat indicative of the 23 MeV resulting from d+d -> 4He? There was an experiment by a careful researcher that suggested that it was in that particular case. - Is the amount of excess heat always indicative of the 23 MeV resulting from d+d -> 4He? Hard to say. People want to go well beyond measured statements of this kind. Some are willing to manufacture consensus in the process. It's a little hard to watch from the sidelines as this kind of thing is done. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
Yeah, I know. It's like these people's brains are utterly broken. There is an implicit conspiracy (by BOTH anti and pro pons/fleischman people) to narrow define cold fusion as experiments done in the late 80s. The idea that cold fusion doesn't involve hydrogen infused metal is just end-of-times for these people. On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson < orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: > From Blaze, > > > > ... > > > > > I think it will also help the community at large if they view cold > > > fusion as completely doable. > > > > Perhaps it's time for you to update the Wikipedia article on CF in order > to reflect this important matter. > > > > See what happens... > > > > Regards, > > Steven Vincent Johnson > > OrionWorks.com > > zazzle.com/orionworks >
RE: [Vo]:Rewriting the lede on cold fusion for wikipedia
>From Blaze, ... > I think it will also help the community at large if they view cold > fusion as completely doable. Perhaps it's time for you to update the Wikipedia article on CF in order to reflect this important matter. See what happens... Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
