Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[fusion.calo...@gmail.com]

Abd,

See cheap => Chan. Why did so many ridicule Propane over Ar? Maybe that 
was key to his success. See 
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-97332004000800032 
Hydrocarbon + Ni in arc => C2H2 + H (highly active) and now C2H2 + Ni => 
unexplained temperature results.


I decided to duplicate Te Chung. Found that long stem spark plugs "NGK 
LZTR5AGP3381" fit nicely in 3/8 iron T using a Thread Insert "OEM 25648 
FIX-A-THREAD" Hey Guys, how about some suggestive help. How many plugs? 
Do I use Model T Ford coils, old CRT TV HV power supply, Teslar Coil, 
Medical RFG used to fuse back nerves, RFG generator used for "bench" 
testing, .. to energize the plugs . what? And how about the Ni? 
I remember a comment last year in some blog where a Bloke  observed 
"thousands of tiny sparks" on a marble floor which had coin Ni dust on 
it and spill residue of floor cleaner after lights off to close for the 
night.


Do I use a plate heat exchanger as a reaction vessel? Do I dump in some 
Mg, Fe, Cu, or a metal hydride with the Ni?


Not to worry yourselves. Have a concrete slab on isolated property and 
plenty of blocks to enclose the devise.


Hey, this Stimulation of LENR is almost more fun than sex and less 
expensive.


Warm Regards,

Reliable

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:

At 09:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:

The idea was doing something cheap, right?


Yes. Cheap carbon dioxide laser? If we could get direct stimulation in 
the range of 8 - 22 ThZ, great! That would replace the two visible 
light lasers. However, I'm not clear if the far infrared would 
penetrate the windows and electrolyte.




2012/4/5 <fznidar...@aol.com>
Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?


At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>The problem would be the output. The low energy
>tail would have also a very low power. I think a
>specialized equipment for that band is required...

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

I want to thank Guenter for thinking about this and taking the time 
to write it out. Comments interspersed.


At 01:58 AM 4/6/2012, Guenter Wildgruber wrote:




Von: Daniel Rocha 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Gesendet: 4:13 Freitag, 6.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative 
engineering needed




> Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid 
nitrogen, to avoid self interference with the experiment.

> 8THz blackbody is a peak around 140K, so 71K is far away from that peak.

This sounds like too low a temperature.
My two cents:
1) using a blackbody to generate the 15&22THz will produce a small 
power-density per area. My estimate is, that it will be in the 10 to 
100uW  range per mm2, depending on the bandwidth. Remember that this 
radiation cannot be focused. So the target power-density can be at 
most the source power-density.
2) another idea would be the coating of the (blackbody-source) with 
molecules, which resonate at the desired frequencies.
Something akin to this here: "Laser spectroscopy and mass 
spectrometry of doped clusters"

http://fys.kuleuven.be/vsm/nano/master.php?mastercat=5
3) If You think about (2) a bit, You get the impression, that it is 
more effective to heat the target (NiH-reactant) directly, and let 
the target do the sorting out of the frequencies via resonance. 
22THz -> approx 15um wavelength.


Okay, let me be clear that I'm asking about the use of dual laser 
stimulation with PdD experiments. I have no evidence that this 
approach is effective, at all, with NiH. Maybe, maybe not. I'd assume 
the frequencies would be different.


The dual laser approach was designed to produce the beat frequency on 
the gold-plated surface of the electrolytic cathode. There are a 
number of experimental characteristics that have been inferred. (I'm 
writing this from memory and might get some detals wrong.) The laser 
power used is higher than necessary to see the effect. The threshold 
power has not been explored. The spot size does not seem to matter, 
within what has been tried. Expanding the spot size (same power over 
larger area) did not have an effect.


A magnetic field is used. The laser stimulation does not appear to be 
effective without the magnetic field.


The cathode is primarily heated through the electrolytic current. 
Laser heating is small compared to that.


The reaction is, however, sensitive to heat; increasing the 
temperature increases excess power.



( Provided that the radiation need not be coherent or narrowband, ofcourse).
Which also gives an indication for the minimum/optimum-size of the 
particles/crystals.

Surprisingly large! Not nano!


At this point this work is generating indications, and some 
surprising ones. Not proof. While the work is openly being published, 
it has not been replicated. I'm aware of one replication attempt that 
failed; but it is not clear how close to the protocol the attempt 
hewed. Cold fusion is famous for this: change one little thing, and 
it doesn't work, and it can be almost impossible to keep *everything* 
the same. That's why helium measurements are so important.


My general impression is, that this dual-laser stimulation maybe 
results in a more pronounced effect, but is not necessary. Simple 
heating basically will do the job also.


Apparently not. Under the conditions set up, there is no XP to speak 
of without the dual laser stimulation. It turns on the reaction, 
heating does not. Heating increases the reaction if it's turned on.



Plus maybe some RF-pulses (Godes/Brillouin, catalyst, secret sauce, whatever.)
Which would be consistent with the other LENR-experiments.


One of the goals I've been promoting is easily reproducible 
experiments, standard cells, if you will. If there is a design that 
can be cheaply reproduced, exactly, and that reliably shows a LENR 
effect, it becomes a base from which to test many different 
variations. I was originally working with codep, the Galileo 
protocol, and do need to finish up that work, but I was invited to 
look at this dual laser work, and found that there are elements here 
of high interest.


For the science.


This is my common-sense-back of the napkin approach.
Laser-based stimulation in any case would be a costly solution.
Sufficient: maybe, necessary: not.


Dual laser stimulation is costly, true, and there are other ways to 
obtain the reaction; however, the goal here is not cheap power. The 
goal is reliably reproducible research. A laser system might be 
shared among many experiments. The work so far only observes the 
effect of laser stimulation over fairly short time periods, mostly. 
Letts wants to see how much power increases when he turns on the 
lasers. It does appear reasonably stable.


Variations on the protocol will be tested, I'm sure. A deposited wire 
cathode may be used, which may be easier to prepare and more uniform. 
My approach 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

The boundary do not have more than 100 atoms. I think it wouldn't be able
to sustain so much charge.

2012/4/6 Axil Axil 

>  The long term accumulation and concentration of electrostatic charge
> (1,000 to 2,000 electrons) is one major cause of cold fusion. Phonon
> resonance may produce this accumulation and concentration but it is not the
> only cause. Charge may accumulate near the interface bounderies of two
> metals as setup and used by ahern.
>
>
>
> This ahern cause many be rooted in the formation of ion crystals like a
> Arata, Mills and Rossi.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Guenter Wildgruber]

 Von: Axil Axil 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 20:33 Freitag, 6.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering 
needed
 

>To the highest possible extent, the lattice should be devoid of flaws to 
>minimize random phonon reflections(RPR). RPR will disrupt the phonon resonance 
>pattern that the lattice heat stimulant is producing. A flawed lattice could 
>be the reason for inconsistent results in many experiments. 
Obviously, micro powder will not work in this type of phonon system which seeks 
to establish a phonon resonance pattern.


Axil, 
do you have a sound argument for that?
CF eg Ahern, who argues that: 
 
citation:
...
In conclusion, perhaps the most important use for Energy Localization will be
in the field of Lattice Assisted Nuclear Energy. We have already noted that
superconductors have enormous anharmonic vibrational modes.  Palladium
hydride is a superconducting system that already has enormous vibrational modes
for the hydrogen isotopes. By processing palladium powders  in the 4-10 nm
size regime produce enormous anharmonic vibrational modes of the palladium
lattice that get superimposed on the anharmonic hydrogen vibrations leading to
a amplification of the hydrogen modes. Energy localization is superimposed over
the already delocalized motion of this superconducting system.  
...
->comment on p 13 of his ppt-presentation
"Energy Localization-- The key to Understanding Energy in Nanotechnology
& Nature"

Not that I find this very authoritative, but it is a statement, which is
consistent with an implicit one, i.e. that larger crystal sectors (>10k
atoms) are more effective in producing extreme local amplitudes/temperatures,
if they are NONHOMOGENOUS. The probability of aharmonic 'temperature' extremes
(excuse the sloppy diction) would be higher, if the crystal-structure would be
nonideal.

You can make a probabilistic analysis of different-size crystal-clusters and
see eg with which (negligible) probability the coulomb barrier is approached.
Nonideal structures help a bit in raising  the probability of local
'temperature-extremes', but never seem to  to approach the
coulomb-barrier.

This maybe a pointless exercise, but I find it useful nevertheless.
 
(2nd disclaimer: there is definitely a sort of scientist,
which is cornered for some reason or other, and puts out more and more extreme
claims, until his reputation implodes. Peer reviewing is the opposite It
fosters scientific conservatism, downto outright sklerosis) 

Guenter

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Axil Axil]

The long term accumulation and concentration of electrostatic charge (1,000
to 2,000 electrons) is one major cause of cold fusion. Phonon resonance may
produce this accumulation and concentration but it is not the only cause.
Charge may accumulate near the interface bounderies of two metals as setup
and used by ahern.



This ahern cause many be rooted in the formation of ion crystals like a
Arata, Mills and Rossi.



On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> So, the cause of CF is probably  not phonon resonance. Otherwise, how
> could small grains used by ahern, with around 1000 atoms could produce
> heat? Or maybe, that's a reason why phonon resonance works better with such
> small clusters? Such small particles tend to organize
> themselves, spontaneously,  in regular polyhedra, to maximize
> the energy binding of the grain.
>
>
> 2012/4/6 Axil Axil 
>
>> To the highest possible extent, the lattice should be devoid of flaws to
>> minimize random phonon reflections(RPR). RPR will disrupt the phonon
>> resonance pattern that the lattice heat stimulant is producing. A flawed
>> lattice could be the reason for inconsistent results in many experiments.
>>
>> Obviously, micro powder will not work in this type of phonon system which
>> seeks to establish a phonon resonance pattern.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>
>>> That is another alternative, though, why not heat it with ultrasound?
>>> BTW, does the experimenters take care in figuring how the material was
>>> produced in  relation to its lattice structure? Maybe the experiments do
>>> not go right so frequently because they rely on stimulate the lattice in
>>>  specific directions and, because of this, they end up being randomly
>>> successful...
>>>
>>> 2012/4/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
>>>
  However, I'm not clear if the far infrared would penetrate the windows
 and electrolyte.


  2012/4/5 
 <fz**nidar...@aol.com
> >
>
> Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?
>
>
> At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> >The problem would be the output. The low energy
> >tail would have also a very low power. I think a
> >specialized equipment for that band is required...
>


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

So, the cause of CF is probably  not phonon resonance. Otherwise, how could
small grains used by ahern, with around 1000 atoms could produce heat? Or
maybe, that's a reason why phonon resonance works better with such small
clusters? Such small particles tend to organize themselves, spontaneously,
 in regular polyhedra, to maximize the energy binding of the grain.

2012/4/6 Axil Axil 

> To the highest possible extent, the lattice should be devoid of flaws to
> minimize random phonon reflections(RPR). RPR will disrupt the phonon
> resonance pattern that the lattice heat stimulant is producing. A flawed
> lattice could be the reason for inconsistent results in many experiments.
>
> Obviously, micro powder will not work in this type of phonon system which
> seeks to establish a phonon resonance pattern.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> That is another alternative, though, why not heat it with ultrasound?
>> BTW, does the experimenters take care in figuring how the material was
>> produced in  relation to its lattice structure? Maybe the experiments do
>> not go right so frequently because they rely on stimulate the lattice in
>>  specific directions and, because of this, they end up being randomly
>> successful...
>>
>> 2012/4/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
>>
>>>  However, I'm not clear if the far infrared would penetrate the windows
>>> and electrolyte.
>>>
>>>
>>>  2012/4/5 
>>> <fz**nidar...@aol.com
 >

 Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?


 At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
 >The problem would be the output. The low energy
 >tail would have also a very low power. I think a
 >specialized equipment for that band is required...

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Axil Axil]

To the highest possible extent, the lattice should be devoid of flaws to
minimize random phonon reflections(RPR). RPR will disrupt the phonon
resonance pattern that the lattice heat stimulant is producing. A flawed
lattice could be the reason for inconsistent results in many experiments.

Obviously, micro powder will not work in this type of phonon system which
seeks to establish a phonon resonance pattern.





On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> That is another alternative, though, why not heat it with ultrasound? BTW,
> does the experimenters take care in figuring how the material was produced
> in  relation to its lattice structure? Maybe the experiments do not go
> right so frequently because they rely on stimulate the lattice in  specific
> directions and, because of this, they end up being randomly successful...
>
> 2012/4/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
>
>>  However, I'm not clear if the far infrared would penetrate the windows
>> and electrolyte.
>>
>>
>>  2012/4/5 
>> <fz**nidar...@aol.com
>>> >
>>>
>>> Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?
>>>
>>>
>>> At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>> >The problem would be the output. The low energy
>>> >tail would have also a very low power. I think a
>>> >specialized equipment for that band is required...
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

That is another alternative, though, why not heat it with ultrasound? BTW,
does the experimenters take care in figuring how the material was produced
in  relation to its lattice structure? Maybe the experiments do not go
right so frequently because they rely on stimulate the lattice in  specific
directions and, because of this, they end up being randomly successful...

2012/4/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

>  However, I'm not clear if the far infrared would penetrate the windows
> and electrolyte.
>
>
>  2012/4/5 <fz**nidar...@aol.com
>> >
>>
>> Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?
>>
>>
>> At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>> >The problem would be the output. The low energy
>> >tail would have also a very low power. I think a
>> >specialized equipment for that band is required...
>>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

But the experiment was done in the MHz range...

2012/4/6 

> Did that.
>
>  http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterb.html#Pg6
>
> Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to
> avoid self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a peak
> around 140K, so 71K is far away from that peak.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel Rocha 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:13 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative
> engineering needed
>
>  Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to
> avoid self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a peak
> around 140K, so 71K is far away from that peak.
>
>
>  2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
>
>> At 12:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>
>>>  If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a
>>> blackbody emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to
>>> 22.5THz,
>>>
>>>  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wien%27s_displacement_law#**
>>> Frequency-dependent_**formulation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation>
>>> >http://en.**wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_**displacement_law#Frequency-**
>>> dependent_formulation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation>
>>>
>>> gives 251K to 387K.
>>>
>>
>> The frequencies of interest are far infrared, or sometimes called
>> mid-infrared. Blackbody emissions certainly exist in the range, but are are
>> at low levels and are not coherent.
>>
>> I've been speculating, though, as an aside, that the erratic results of
>> cold fusion might have to do with the presence or absence of environmental
>> THz radiation. I don't know if anyone looked for this, and don't place a
>> lot of weight on the idea
>>
>>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 09:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:

The idea was doing something cheap, right?


Yes. Cheap carbon dioxide laser? If we could get direct stimulation 
in the range of 8 - 22 ThZ, great! That would replace the two visible 
light lasers. However, I'm not clear if the far infrared would 
penetrate the windows and electrolyte.




2012/4/5 <fznidar...@aol.com>
Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?


At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>The problem would be the output. The low energy
>tail would have also a very low power. I think a
>specialized equipment for that band is required...

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Guenter Wildgruber]

 Von: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 17:40 Freitag, 6.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative  engineering 
needed
 
>Unfortunately, the reactions are known to be temperature-dependent. I.e., if a 
>reaction is going to happen, increasing the temperature (within limits) 
>increases the reaction rate. 

Yes.
We should  differentiate this area -as a tool -as an area of EXCITATION- as 
soon as possible from the area of DETECTION.
It is RESONANCE effects, which make the classical continuum obsolete, by some 
unknown orders of magnitude.
We should have known that since the Fraunhofer-lines, right?

Unfortunately, some particles are termed 'cold', which aren't. Common sense 
does not apply there.
Although normally being an advocate of common sense, I would keep this out of 
consideration in this case.
Which is, in an epistemological sense, quite difficult. 

Just an example:
Exciting an item in the low THZ regime (say 10THz) actually implies a COOLING , 
which puts the whole issue out of the whole thermodynamic
calculations, because the Boltzmann equations apply to continua, and not 
resonance-peaks.
Anyway.
Think yourself.

Guenter.

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Guenter Wildgruber]

 Von: "fznidar...@aol.com" 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 15:07 Freitag, 6.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering 
needed
 

Did that. 

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterb.html#Pg6 

Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to avoid 
self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a peak around 140K, so 
71K is far away from that peak. 
This is so strange that I stopped reading at the first paragraph.
Maybe I should take a walk and then read another paragraph.
Maybe this is the problem with all our misundestandings, right?

Everything, which does not fall into our filter-bandwidth of acceptibility 
lands in the trashbin.

My inner philosopher does some headscratching.
'I' --whoever the hell that guy is-- try to keep him educated about his 
judgements.

Guenter.

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 09:13 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, 
to avoid self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a 
peak around 140K, so 71K is far away from that peak.


Unfortunately, the reactions are known to be temperature-dependent. 
I.e., if a reaction is going to happen, increasing the temperature 
(within limits) increases the reaction rate. The FPHE is not seen at 
liquid nitrogen temperatures. It's possible that an understanding of 
why this is so is being developed. 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[fznidarsic]

Did that.


http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterb.html#Pg6 

Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to avoid 
self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a peak around 140K, so 
71K is far away from that peak.





-Original Message-
From: Daniel Rocha 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:13 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering 
needed


Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to avoid 
self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a peak around 140K, so 
71K is far away from that peak.






2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

At 12:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:


If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a blackbody 
emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to 22.5THz,


<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation

gives 251K to 387K.


The frequencies of interest are far infrared, or sometimes called mid-infrared. 
Blackbody emissions certainly exist in the range, but are are at low levels and 
are not coherent.

I've been speculating, though, as an aside, that the erratic results of cold 
fusion might have to do with the presence or absence of environmental THz 
radiation. I don't know if anyone looked for this, and don't place a lot of 
weight on the idea




 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Guenter Wildgruber]

 Von: Daniel Rocha 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 4:13 Freitag, 6.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering 
needed
 



> Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to avoid 
> self interference with the experiment. 
> 8THz blackbody is a peak around 140K, so 71K is far away from that peak.

This sounds like too low a temperature.
My two cents:
1) using a blackbody to generate the 15&22THz will produce a small 
power-density per area. My estimate is, that it will be in the 10 to 
100uW  range per mm2, depending on the bandwidth. Remember that this 
radiation cannot be focused. So the target power-density can be at most 
the source power-density.
2) another idea would be the coating of the (blackbody-source) with molecules, 
which resonate at the desired frequencies.
Something akin to this here: "Laser spectroscopy and mass spectrometry of doped 
clusters"
http://fys.kuleuven.be/vsm/nano/master.php?mastercat=5
3) If You think about (2) a bit, You get the impression, that it is more
 effective to heat the target (NiH-reactant) directly, and let the 
target do the sorting out of the frequencies via resonance. 22THz -> 
approx 15um wavelength. 
( Provided that the radiation need not be coherent or narrowband, ofcourse).
Which also gives an indication for the minimum/optimum-size 
of the particles/crystals.
Surprisingly large! Not nano!

My general impression is, that this dual-laser stimulation maybe results in a 
more pronounced effect, but is not necessary. Simple heating basically will do 
the job also. 
Plus maybe some RF-pulses (Godes/Brillouin, catalyst, secret sauce, whatever.)
Which would be consistent with the other LENR-experiments.

This is my common-sense-back of the napkin approach.
Laser-based stimulation in any case would be a costly solution.
Sufficient: maybe, necessary: not.


Guenter



2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

At 12:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a blackbody 
>emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to 22.5THz,
>>
>>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation
>>
>>gives 251K to 387K.
>>
>The frequencies of interest are far infrared, or sometimes called 
>mid-infrared. Blackbody emissions certainly exist in the range, but are are at 
>low levels and are not coherent.
>
>I've been speculating, though, as an aside, that the erratic results of cold 
>fusion might have to do with the presence or absence of environmental THz 
>radiation. I don't know if anyone looked for this, and don't place a lot of 
>weight on the idea
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Axil Axil]

IF you can confine a few thousand electrons in a small enough volume, then
the coulomb barrier in that small volume would be reduced enough for fusion
tunneling to occur.


There are a number of ways to confine a group of electrons for the required
time interval.


One way is to use electron/phonon coupling.


http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-04-quantum-motion.html


*Quantum information motion control is now improved.*

*In strong electron-phonon coupling regimes, multi-phonon excitations can
thus enhance the electron transport.*

*As the electron-phonon coupling becomes even stronger, the phenomenon of
phonon scattering represses electron transport and confines the electrons.
The fluctuations of electron current could therefore be controlled by
tuning the electron-phonon coupling,*

Using a Q-pulse, what Brillouin Energy is doing is setting up a phonon wave
pattern to confine electrons in a standing phonon wave pattern when the
frequency of the phonon wave pattern is just right to confine a group of
electrons in a small volume.


If you remember in the Brillouin Energy theory video, as  Q-pulse frequency
is increased, the reaction would lessen and increase in a repeating pattern
as the frequency ascends higher and higher. This indicates a beat wave
phenomenon is in play.


Rossi is trying to do the same thing using his frequency generator.


Rydberg crystals will also concentrate charge in a small volume.


The beat waves of dual lasers will also stimulate a phonon wave pattern in
a lattice. If this beat wave pattern formed by the two lasers are fortunate
enough to confine a group of electrons in a standing wave form, fusion will
occur.


Confinement of enough electrons for enough time in a small enough volume is
what cold fusion is all about.






On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:

> I've been looking at:
>
> Letts, D. and P.L. Hagelstein. Stimulation of Optical Phonons in
> Deuterated Palladium. in ICCF-14 International
> Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2008. Washington, DC.
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/**LettsDstimulatio.pdf
>
> This work has not received adequate attention.
>
> There is more at 
> http://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/**JCMNS-Vol3.pdf--
>  page 59 et seq. (PDF page 65)
>
> Summary:
>
> A cathode of palladium foil is prepared, according to a protocoal which
> Letts has found has high success at producing excess heat. The cathode is
> loaded to perhaps 85% (?), then an alternate anode of gold is energized,
> and gold is thus plated onto the cathode. Electrolysis power is maintained
> after the loading period and through the experiment.
>
> The cathode is illuminated at a spot with two lasers, tuned to produce
> beat frequencies in the range of 3-22 THz.
>
> Many experimental issues remain to be explored. However, aside from some
> unlikely possibilities, it appears that there is a strong response to
> stimulation, such that when there is, under the experimental conditions, no
> laser stimulation, or stimulation off-resonance, there is little or no XP.
> The response appears to be quantitatively predictable. Further, that there
> would be such a response was predicted from theory by Hagelstein. However,
> it is not my purpose here to go into the Hagelstein's theory and its
> implications, except to note that this work may be helping to elucidate
> conditions under which cold fusion takes place. It is the level of control
> that is important.
>
> (One of the problems in the field is that there may be alternate
> conditions, there is not necessarily just one mechanism. We need to keep
> that in mind. For example, the Letts work generally involves using a strong
> magnetic field, whereas other work shows XP without a strong field. On the
> other hand, perhaps only a weak field is needed! Such as that of the earth.
> Field orinetation might matter! One of the avenues of approach here is to
> explore the effect across a range of magnetic field strengths and
> orientations. Obviously, as well, laser stimulation is not a necessary
> cause of XP under all conditions. The Letts cells may be, I can speculate,
> held at a loading level under that where the normal FPHE arises; but the
> THz stimulation shoves them into activity.)
>
> In order to replicate this work, THz stimulation is required. To do it as
> Letts did it is expensive.
>
> How can stimulation, perhaps at 14.8 THz or 21.78 THz, be arranged? It may
> be possible to obtain inexpensive laser diodes chosen in pairs to produce
> these frequencies, or close enough. (How close is necessary is a matter to
> be explored). The power need not be high, there are signs that the
> triggering threshold may be below 1 mW per laser. It may be possible to
> tune inexpensive diodes by controlling their temperature, over a limited
> range.
>
> Filters in the THz region might also be obtained or fabricated.
>
> For general inte

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

Well, depending on the theory, CF can be much hotter than those of
Tokamaks...

2012/4/6 Jones Beene 

>
>From: Daniel Rocha
>
>That's the energy excitation corresponding Debye temperature
> in palladium at 275K. That's odd.
> Jones Beene wrote:
>This begs the question: why would 15-22 THz, in theory,
> couple with Ni-H in
>a gainful way when higher radiation (lasers light) or lower
> (microwaves)
>would not do anywhere near as well?
> Both odd, cold, and possible "magnon-omous"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnon
>
> Side note on semantics - old, new, and collective.
>
> Given that Ni-H is not a fusion reaction, but Pd-D probably is, and both
> could involve phonon stimulation in a confined cavity at essentially "cold"
> temperature levels (below ambient average phonon frequency)...
> Given that there could be some relevance to ~15 THz photon stimulation and
> LENR, and this frequency is the equivalent of ~250 degrees K or -23 C, -10
> F
> ... in other words: "damn cold" ...
> Isn't it somehow appropriate to consider that maybe we should be calling
> the
> entire field: "cold confusion" ...
> :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Jones Beene]

From: Daniel Rocha 

That's the energy excitation corresponding Debye temperature
in palladium at 275K. That's odd.
Jones Beene wrote:
This begs the question: why would 15-22 THz, in theory,
couple with Ni-H in
a gainful way when higher radiation (lasers light) or lower
(microwaves)
would not do anywhere near as well?
Both odd, cold, and possible "magnon-omous"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnon
 
Side note on semantics - old, new, and collective.

Given that Ni-H is not a fusion reaction, but Pd-D probably is, and both
could involve phonon stimulation in a confined cavity at essentially "cold"
temperature levels (below ambient average phonon frequency)...
Given that there could be some relevance to ~15 THz photon stimulation and
LENR, and this frequency is the equivalent of ~250 degrees K or -23 C, -10 F
... in other words: "damn cold" ...
Isn't it somehow appropriate to consider that maybe we should be calling the
entire field: "cold confusion" ...
:-)





<>

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

That's the energy excitation corresponding Debye temperature in
palladium  275K.
That's odd.

2012/4/5 Jones Beene 

> This begs the question: why would 15-22 THz, in theory, couple with Ni-H in
> a gainful way when higher radiation (lasers light) or lower (microwaves)
> would not do anywhere near as well?
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

The idea was doing something cheap, right?

2012/4/5 

> Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?
>
> At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> >The problem would be the output. The low energy
> >tail would have also a very low power. I think a
> >specialized equipment for that band is required...
> >
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
> To: vortex-l ; vortex-l 
> Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:17 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative
> engineering needed
>
>  At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> >The problem would be the output. The low energy
> >tail would have also a very low power. I think a
> >specialized equipment for that band is required...
> >
> >2012/4/5 Jones Beene 
> >
> >Hey Daniel – instead of straight wide spectrum
> >low IR - why not add a special filter to a tuned
> >resistance heater electrode to get some kind of
> >pseudo coherence? Here is a pretty steep spike at 2 THz:
>
> Yeah, I think Daniel is right. This is why dual
> laser stimulation is being used. It's relatively
> cheap. It's also low yield, but probably not as
> low as relying on a thermal source with a filter.
> And it's coherent, which might be necessary.
>
> I may suggest using a non-laser diode plus a
> tunable laser to generate the frequencies, to see
> if coherence is necessary Any ideas?
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

Maybe it is the case of cooling the experiment with liquid nitrogen, to
avoid self interference with the experiment. 8THz blackbody is a peak
around 140K, so 71K is far away from that peak.


2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

> At 12:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a
>> blackbody emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to
>> 22.5THz,
>>
>> > Frequency-dependent_**formulation
>> >http://en.**wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_**displacement_law#Frequency-**
>> dependent_formulation
>>
>> gives 251K to 387K.
>>
>
> The frequencies of interest are far infrared, or sometimes called
> mid-infrared. Blackbody emissions certainly exist in the range, but are are
> at low levels and are not coherent.
>
> I've been speculating, though, as an aside, that the erratic results of
> cold fusion might have to do with the presence or absence of environmental
> THz radiation. I don't know if anyone looked for this, and don't place a
> lot of weight on the idea
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[fznidarsic]

Why not use a carbon dioxide laser?


At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>The problem would be the output. The low energy 
>tail would have also a very low power. I think a 
>specialized equipment for that band is required...
>





-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
To: vortex-l ; vortex-l 
Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering 
needed


At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>The problem would be the output. The low energy 
>tail would have also a very low power. I think a 
>specialized equipment for that band is required...
>
>2012/4/5 Jones Beene 
>
>Hey Daniel – instead of straight wide spectrum 
>low IR - why not add a special filter to a tuned 
>resistance heater electrode to get some kind of 
>pseudo coherence? Here is a pretty steep spike at 2 THz:

Yeah, I think Daniel is right. This is why dual 
laser stimulation is being used. It's relatively 
cheap. It's also low yield, but probably not as 
low as relying on a thermal source with a filter. 
And it's coherent, which might be necessary.

I may suggest using a non-laser diode plus a 
tunable laser to generate the frequencies, to see 
if coherence is necessary Any ideas? 


 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 04:05 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
The problem would be the output. The low energy 
tail would have also a very low power. I think a 
specialized equipment for that band is required...


2012/4/5 Jones Beene 

Hey Daniel – instead of straight wide spectrum 
low IR - why not add a special filter to a tuned 
resistance heater electrode to get some kind of 
pseudo coherence? Here is a pretty steep spike at 2 THz:


Yeah, I think Daniel is right. This is why dual 
laser stimulation is being used. It's relatively 
cheap. It's also low yield, but probably not as 
low as relying on a thermal source with a filter. 
And it's coherent, which might be necessary.


I may suggest using a non-laser diode plus a 
tunable laser to generate the frequencies, to see 
if coherence is necessary Any ideas? 

RE: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

> Sweeping up from 3 THz or so, Letts found no effect until 8 THz. He got
the most pronounced effects at 15 and 22 THz.



OK, got it. That puts this into very difficult territory. This spectrum
15-22 THz is the upper end of the so-called "terahertz gap". At the low end
of the gap, high-speed transistors can operate; but semiconductors are
pushing from both ends - since at the infrared edge, photonic devices
operate. 

So this is truly "no man's land" for present day technology - and that could
be a clue as to why it has not been previously exploited. But can we connect
the dots? 

If it were easily accessible, perhaps an anomaly would have been apparent
before now. IOW - potential exploitation of this gap has suffered from a
lack of bright sources of radiation (or any coherent sources). But of course
it is a logical error to assert that this indicates anything further. 

However, it is enticing to suggest that simple resistance heating, combined
with a filter (even an "inadvertent filter") which serves to induce
semi-coherence in no-man's-land could be Rossi's big breakthrough
(serendipitous breakthrough?). 

... and the kicker is that if true - AR could still be ignorant of that M.O

This begs the question: why would 15-22 THz, in theory, couple with Ni-H in
a gainful way when higher radiation (lasers light) or lower (microwaves)
would not do anywhere near as well?

Jones



<>

RE: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 02:56 PM 4/5/2012, Jones Beene wrote:
Hey Daniel – instead of straight wide spectrum 
low IR - why not add a special filter to a tuned 
resistance heater electrode to get some kind of 
pseudo coherence? Here is a pretty steep spike at 2 THz:


http://www.insight-product.com/mesh3.htm


Sweeping up from 3 THz or so, Letts found no 
effect until 8 THz. He got the most pronounced effects at 15 and 22 THz.


Low terahertz might work, no? Doubt if they go 
very high without massive losses.


No.

3 THz appears useless.

It is possible that whatever we can come up with 
could be tested by Letts in his work. Trying to 
develop a cheap substitute for his expensive dual 
tunable lasers, while at the same time trying to 
replicate his work (which involves complexities 
in cathode preparation, etc.) would seem to be a 
Bad Idea, a formula for wasting vast amounts of time and money.)


I would not rule out using a thermal source with 
mesh filters, if it could be tested with ease. 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 12:31 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:

BTW, this resembles the stuff Rossi claims to use...


I don't think so. However, sure. Maybe the band heater that Rossi 
uses is actually an IR source.


However, I'm not willing to base anything on anything from Rossi, 
until and unless it is independently confirmed. Thanks for the idea, though.




2012/4/5 Daniel Rocha <danieldi...@gmail.com>
If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a 
blackbody emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to 22.5THz,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation

gives 251K to 387K.

So, a resistive heater would give you the upper band and for the 
lower band, you'd need a Terahertz source:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_radiation 



Like this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_wave_oscillator 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 12:30 PM 4/5/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a 
blackbody emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to 22.5THz,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation

gives 251K to 387K.


The frequencies of interest are far infrared, or sometimes called 
mid-infrared. Blackbody emissions certainly exist in the range, but 
are are at low levels and are not coherent.


I've been speculating, though, as an aside, that the erratic results 
of cold fusion might have to do with the presence or absence of 
environmental THz radiation. I don't know if anyone looked for this, 
and don't place a lot of weight on the idea


The beat frequency signal generated in the dual laser stimulation 
work will be coherent. It appears that the gold particles that form 
the gold plating may re-radiate the beat frequency, causing effects 
in the PdD below. (There is an objection that the excess heat effect 
might be happening directly in the gold layer, but I'm setting that 
aside for the time being, though it cannot yet be absolutely ruled out).


It is unknown whether or not the stimulation must be coherent.

So, a resistive heater would give you the upper band and for the 
lower band, you'd need a Terahertz source:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_radiation


The frequencies of interest are approximately 8, 15, and 22 THz, 
which are above what the article calls "Terahertz radiation."



Like this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_wave_oscillator


The frequencies involved are outside the band of interest. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomixing is more to the point. The 
theory is that the gold particles serve as the mixer.


It is unclear that an external source at the frequencies involved 
would work. The emitted infrared would have to penetrate the 
experimental cell wall and the intervening electrolyte. The visible 
light lasers do that, mixing, it's proposed, at the surface.


(no more new content below)








2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com>
I've been looking at:

Letts, D. and P.L. Hagelstein. Stimulation of Optical Phonons in 
Deuterated Palladium. in ICCF-14 International

Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2008. Washington, DC.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf

This work has not received adequate attention.

There is more at 
http://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/JCMNS-Vol3.pdf 
-- page 59 et seq. (PDF page 65)


Summary:

A cathode of palladium foil is prepared, according to a protocoal 
which Letts has found has high success at producing excess heat. The 
cathode is loaded to perhaps 85% (?), then an alternate anode of 
gold is energized, and gold is thus plated onto the cathode. 
Electrolysis power is maintained after the loading period and 
through the experiment.


The cathode is illuminated at a spot with two lasers, tuned to 
produce beat frequencies in the range of 3-22 THz.


Many experimental issues remain to be explored. However, aside from 
some unlikely possibilities, it appears that there is a strong 
response to stimulation, such that when there is, under the 
experimental conditions, no laser stimulation, or stimulation 
off-resonance, there is little or no XP. The response appears to be 
quantitatively predictable. Further, that there would be such a 
response was predicted from theory by Hagelstein. However, it is not 
my purpose here to go into the Hagelstein's theory and its 
implications, except to note that this work may be helping to 
elucidate conditions under which cold fusion takes place. It is the 
level of control that is important.


(One of the problems in the field is that there may be alternate 
conditions, there is not necessarily just one mechanism. We need to 
keep that in mind. For example, the Letts work generally involves 
using a strong magnetic field, whereas other work shows XP without a 
strong field. On the other hand, perhaps only a weak field is 
needed! Such as that of the earth. Field orinetation might matter! 
One of the avenues of approach here is to explore the effect across 
a range of magnetic field strengths and orientations. Obviously, as 
well, laser stimulation is not a necessary cause of XP under all 
conditions. The Letts cells may be, I can speculate, held at a 
loading level under that where the normal FPHE arises; but the THz 
stimulation shoves them into activity.)


In order to replicate this work, THz stimulation is required. To do 
it as Letts did it is expensive.


How can stimulation, perhaps at 14.8 THz or 21.78 THz, be arranged? 
It may be possible to obtain inexpe

RE: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 12:22 PM 4/5/2012, Jones Beene wrote:

-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

> Any brainstorming, especially informed, on how to generate the THz
stimulation will be appreciated.


Contact:  Virginia Diodes Inc. (434) 297-3257
www.vadiodes.com/
THz Mixers, Multipliers, Systems


I don't see anything there above 3 THz. 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

The problem would be the output. The low energy tail would have also a very
low power. I think a specialized equipment for that band is required...

2012/4/5 Jones Beene 

>  Hey Daniel – instead of straight wide spectrum low IR - why not add a
> special filter to a tuned resistance heater electrode to get some kind of
> pseudo coherence? Here is a pretty steep spike at 2 THz:
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.insight-product.com/mesh3.htm
>
> ** **
>
> Low terahertz might work, no? Doubt if they go very high without massive
> losses.
>
> ** **
>
> Anyway, mention of the BWO brings to mind another great “missed
> opportunity” by Randell Mills and BLP. That would be his versions of the
> gyrotron – which is similar to the BWO and was to be combined with direct
> conversion of EUV from his hydrogen (hydrino) plasma. He called it the
> “reverse gyrotron”. Supposedly, prototypes were built.
>
> ** **
>
> Gyrotrons are extremely efficient - and small for their power. It is not
> clear why Mills gave up on the concept, but Russia owns much of the IP -
> and maybe he did not want to deal with the Russians.
>
> ** **
>
> Anyway, newer versions of the gyrotron will reach into low THz. And if
> HTSC could be added to increase the field strength of the required magnet,
> who knows? Wow pulses at 50 T. !
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.tstnetwork.org/December2009/tst-v2n4-150Powerful.pdf
>
> ** **
>
> Darn, if I had only managed to guess the numbers on last week’s big Lotto
> prize … well … a new version of this would be on my to-do list. 
>
> ** **
>
> IOW developing this kind of device in the context of a direct converter
> for Ni-H, similar to the way Mills tried to do with the hydrino – yeah –
> that would probably eat up 100 million, easy.
>
> ** **
>
> Jones
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Daniel Rocha 
>
> ** **
>
> Like this one:
>
> ** **
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_wave_oscillator 
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Jones Beene]

Hey Daniel - instead of straight wide spectrum low IR - why not add a
special filter to a tuned resistance heater electrode to get some kind of
pseudo coherence? Here is a pretty steep spike at 2 THz:

 

http://www.insight-product.com/mesh3.htm

 

Low terahertz might work, no? Doubt if they go very high without massive
losses.

 

Anyway, mention of the BWO brings to mind another great "missed opportunity"
by Randell Mills and BLP. That would be his versions of the gyrotron - which
is similar to the BWO and was to be combined with direct conversion of EUV
from his hydrogen (hydrino) plasma. He called it the "reverse gyrotron".
Supposedly, prototypes were built.

 

Gyrotrons are extremely efficient - and small for their power. It is not
clear why Mills gave up on the concept, but Russia owns much of the IP - and
maybe he did not want to deal with the Russians.

 

Anyway, newer versions of the gyrotron will reach into low THz. And if HTSC
could be added to increase the field strength of the required magnet, who
knows? Wow pulses at 50 T. !

 

http://www.tstnetwork.org/December2009/tst-v2n4-150Powerful.pdf

 

Darn, if I had only managed to guess the numbers on last week's big Lotto
prize . well . a new version of this would be on my to-do list. 

 

IOW developing this kind of device in the context of a direct converter for
Ni-H, similar to the way Mills tried to do with the hydrino - yeah - that
would probably eat up 100 million, easy.

 

Jones

 

 

From: Daniel Rocha 

 

Like this one:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_wave_oscillator 

 

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

BTW, this resembles the stuff Rossi claims to use...

2012/4/5 Daniel Rocha 

> If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a
> blackbody emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to
> 22.5THz,
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation
>
> gives 251K to 387K.
>
> So, a resistive heater would give you the upper band and for the lower
> band, you'd need a Terahertz source:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_radiation
>
> Like this one:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_wave_oscillator
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
>
>> I've been looking at:
>>
>> Letts, D. and P.L. Hagelstein. Stimulation of Optical Phonons in
>> Deuterated Palladium. in ICCF-14 International
>> Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2008. Washington, DC.
>>
>> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/**LettsDstimulatio.pdf
>>
>> This work has not received adequate attention.
>>
>> There is more at 
>> http://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/**JCMNS-Vol3.pdf--
>>  page 59 et seq. (PDF page 65)
>>
>> Summary:
>>
>> A cathode of palladium foil is prepared, according to a protocoal which
>> Letts has found has high success at producing excess heat. The cathode is
>> loaded to perhaps 85% (?), then an alternate anode of gold is energized,
>> and gold is thus plated onto the cathode. Electrolysis power is maintained
>> after the loading period and through the experiment.
>>
>> The cathode is illuminated at a spot with two lasers, tuned to produce
>> beat frequencies in the range of 3-22 THz.
>>
>> Many experimental issues remain to be explored. However, aside from some
>> unlikely possibilities, it appears that there is a strong response to
>> stimulation, such that when there is, under the experimental conditions, no
>> laser stimulation, or stimulation off-resonance, there is little or no XP.
>> The response appears to be quantitatively predictable. Further, that there
>> would be such a response was predicted from theory by Hagelstein. However,
>> it is not my purpose here to go into the Hagelstein's theory and its
>> implications, except to note that this work may be helping to elucidate
>> conditions under which cold fusion takes place. It is the level of control
>> that is important.
>>
>> (One of the problems in the field is that there may be alternate
>> conditions, there is not necessarily just one mechanism. We need to keep
>> that in mind. For example, the Letts work generally involves using a strong
>> magnetic field, whereas other work shows XP without a strong field. On the
>> other hand, perhaps only a weak field is needed! Such as that of the earth.
>> Field orinetation might matter! One of the avenues of approach here is to
>> explore the effect across a range of magnetic field strengths and
>> orientations. Obviously, as well, laser stimulation is not a necessary
>> cause of XP under all conditions. The Letts cells may be, I can speculate,
>> held at a loading level under that where the normal FPHE arises; but the
>> THz stimulation shoves them into activity.)
>>
>> In order to replicate this work, THz stimulation is required. To do it as
>> Letts did it is expensive.
>>
>> How can stimulation, perhaps at 14.8 THz or 21.78 THz, be arranged? It
>> may be possible to obtain inexpensive laser diodes chosen in pairs to
>> produce these frequencies, or close enough. (How close is necessary is a
>> matter to be explored). The power need not be high, there are signs that
>> the triggering threshold may be below 1 mW per laser. It may be possible to
>> tune inexpensive diodes by controlling their temperature, over a limited
>> range.
>>
>> Filters in the THz region might also be obtained or fabricated.
>>
>> For general interest, I'll add some results of prior discussion. The gold
>> deposit appears to be necessary for laser stimulation to have an effect. It
>> is that layer, perhaps, that mixes the two laser frequencies, producing the
>> effective beat frequency.
>>
>> Plans are underway to analyze cell atmosphere and used cathodes for
>> helium, and, at least at first, this could be an important aspect of this
>> work. There is speculation that the resonance above 20 THz is due to
>> hydrogen, and so the product from that stimulation might not be helium! It
>> is conceivable that the cathode design with a gold deposit traps helium,
>> better than an open cathode would. If so, full analysis of the cathode
>> might reveal a great deal of information about reaction site as well as,
>> perhaps, better determination of reaction Q (heat/helium) than has
>> previously been obtained.
>>
>> Any brainstorming, especially informed, on how to generate the THz
>> stimulation will be appreciated. My goal, generally, has been to lower the
>> entry cost for doing important cold fusion experimental work.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Daniel Rocha]

If you are not concerned with a narrow broad band, you could use a
blackbody emission. According to Wien's displacement law, 14.8THz to
22.5THz,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law#Frequency-dependent_formulation

gives 251K to 387K.

So, a resistive heater would give you the upper band and for the lower
band, you'd need a Terahertz source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_radiation

Like this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_wave_oscillator





2012/4/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

> I've been looking at:
>
> Letts, D. and P.L. Hagelstein. Stimulation of Optical Phonons in
> Deuterated Palladium. in ICCF-14 International
> Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2008. Washington, DC.
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/**LettsDstimulatio.pdf
>
> This work has not received adequate attention.
>
> There is more at 
> http://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/**JCMNS-Vol3.pdf--
>  page 59 et seq. (PDF page 65)
>
> Summary:
>
> A cathode of palladium foil is prepared, according to a protocoal which
> Letts has found has high success at producing excess heat. The cathode is
> loaded to perhaps 85% (?), then an alternate anode of gold is energized,
> and gold is thus plated onto the cathode. Electrolysis power is maintained
> after the loading period and through the experiment.
>
> The cathode is illuminated at a spot with two lasers, tuned to produce
> beat frequencies in the range of 3-22 THz.
>
> Many experimental issues remain to be explored. However, aside from some
> unlikely possibilities, it appears that there is a strong response to
> stimulation, such that when there is, under the experimental conditions, no
> laser stimulation, or stimulation off-resonance, there is little or no XP.
> The response appears to be quantitatively predictable. Further, that there
> would be such a response was predicted from theory by Hagelstein. However,
> it is not my purpose here to go into the Hagelstein's theory and its
> implications, except to note that this work may be helping to elucidate
> conditions under which cold fusion takes place. It is the level of control
> that is important.
>
> (One of the problems in the field is that there may be alternate
> conditions, there is not necessarily just one mechanism. We need to keep
> that in mind. For example, the Letts work generally involves using a strong
> magnetic field, whereas other work shows XP without a strong field. On the
> other hand, perhaps only a weak field is needed! Such as that of the earth.
> Field orinetation might matter! One of the avenues of approach here is to
> explore the effect across a range of magnetic field strengths and
> orientations. Obviously, as well, laser stimulation is not a necessary
> cause of XP under all conditions. The Letts cells may be, I can speculate,
> held at a loading level under that where the normal FPHE arises; but the
> THz stimulation shoves them into activity.)
>
> In order to replicate this work, THz stimulation is required. To do it as
> Letts did it is expensive.
>
> How can stimulation, perhaps at 14.8 THz or 21.78 THz, be arranged? It may
> be possible to obtain inexpensive laser diodes chosen in pairs to produce
> these frequencies, or close enough. (How close is necessary is a matter to
> be explored). The power need not be high, there are signs that the
> triggering threshold may be below 1 mW per laser. It may be possible to
> tune inexpensive diodes by controlling their temperature, over a limited
> range.
>
> Filters in the THz region might also be obtained or fabricated.
>
> For general interest, I'll add some results of prior discussion. The gold
> deposit appears to be necessary for laser stimulation to have an effect. It
> is that layer, perhaps, that mixes the two laser frequencies, producing the
> effective beat frequency.
>
> Plans are underway to analyze cell atmosphere and used cathodes for
> helium, and, at least at first, this could be an important aspect of this
> work. There is speculation that the resonance above 20 THz is due to
> hydrogen, and so the product from that stimulation might not be helium! It
> is conceivable that the cathode design with a gold deposit traps helium,
> better than an open cathode would. If so, full analysis of the cathode
> might reveal a great deal of information about reaction site as well as,
> perhaps, better determination of reaction Q (heat/helium) than has
> previously been obtained.
>
> Any brainstorming, especially informed, on how to generate the THz
> stimulation will be appreciated. My goal, generally, has been to lower the
> entry cost for doing important cold fusion experimental work.
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 

> Any brainstorming, especially informed, on how to generate the THz 
stimulation will be appreciated.

 
Contact:  Virginia Diodes Inc. (434) 297-3257
www.vadiodes.com/
THz Mixers, Multipliers, Systems

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering needed

[fznidarsic]

20 x 10 exp 12 hertz times 50 x 10 exp -9 = one megahertz meter


Someday even Jones and Stevek will believe me.


Frank Znidarsic



-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
To: vortex-l ; vortex-l 
Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:38 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Stimulation of LENR using dual lasers, creative engineering   
needed


I've been looking at:

Letts, D. and P.L. Hagelstein. Stimulation of Optical Phonons in 
Deuterated Palladium. in ICCF-14 International
Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2008. Washington, DC.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf

This work has not received adequate attention.

There is more at http://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/JCMNS-Vol3.pdf -- page 59 
et seq. (PDF page 65)

Summary:

A cathode of palladium foil is prepared, according to a protocoal 
which Letts has found has high success at producing excess heat. The 
cathode is loaded to perhaps 85% (?), then an alternate anode of gold 
is energized, and gold is thus plated onto the cathode. Electrolysis 
power is maintained after the loading period and through the experiment.

The cathode is illuminated at a spot with two lasers, tuned to 
produce beat frequencies in the range of 3-22 THz.

Many experimental issues remain to be explored. However, aside from 
some unlikely possibilities, it appears that there is a strong 
response to stimulation, such that when there is, under the 
experimental conditions, no laser stimulation, or stimulation 
off-resonance, there is little or no XP. The response appears to be 
quantitatively predictable. Further, that there would be such a 
response was predicted from theory by Hagelstein. However, it is not 
my purpose here to go into the Hagelstein's theory and its 
implications, except to note that this work may be helping to 
elucidate conditions under which cold fusion takes place. It is the 
level of control that is important.

(One of the problems in the field is that there may be alternate 
conditions, there is not necessarily just one mechanism. We need to 
keep that in mind. For example, the Letts work generally involves 
using a strong magnetic field, whereas other work shows XP without a 
strong field. On the other hand, perhaps only a weak field is needed! 
Such as that of the earth. Field orinetation might matter! One of the 
avenues of approach here is to explore the effect across a range of 
magnetic field strengths and orientations. Obviously, as well, laser 
stimulation is not a necessary cause of XP under all conditions. The 
Letts cells may be, I can speculate, held at a loading level under 
that where the normal FPHE arises; but the THz stimulation shoves 
them into activity.)

In order to replicate this work, THz stimulation is required. To do 
it as Letts did it is expensive.

How can stimulation, perhaps at 14.8 THz or 21.78 THz, be arranged? 
It may be possible to obtain inexpensive laser diodes chosen in pairs 
to produce these frequencies, or close enough. (How close is 
necessary is a matter to be explored). The power need not be high, 
there are signs that the triggering threshold may be below 1 mW per 
laser. It may be possible to tune inexpensive diodes by controlling 
their temperature, over a limited range.

Filters in the THz region might also be obtained or fabricated.

For general interest, I'll add some results of prior discussion. The 
gold deposit appears to be necessary for laser stimulation to have an 
effect. It is that layer, perhaps, that mixes the two laser 
frequencies, producing the effective beat frequency.

Plans are underway to analyze cell atmosphere and used cathodes for 
helium, and, at least at first, this could be an important aspect of 
this work. There is speculation that the resonance above 20 THz is 
due to hydrogen, and so the product from that stimulation might not 
be helium! It is conceivable that the cathode design with a gold 
deposit traps helium, better than an open cathode would. If so, full 
analysis of the cathode might reveal a great deal of information 
about reaction site as well as, perhaps, better determination of 
reaction Q (heat/helium) than has previously been obtained.

Any brainstorming, especially informed, on how to generate the THz 
stimulation will be appreciated. My goal, generally, has been to 
lower the entry cost for doing important cold fusion experimental work.