Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Robin]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Mon, 21 Jun 2021 02:55:57 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Robin
>Anti matter means gamma radiation. Where is the gamma radiation?

Have they stated that it doesn't exist? Have they even looked for it?
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Robin
Anti matter means gamma radiation. Where is the gamma radiation?

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 5:37 PM Robin 
wrote:

> In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sun, 20 Jun 2021 15:47:20 +
> (UTC):
> Hi,
> [snip]
>
>
> https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0360319921008144?token=EBB8CA34BB83E3A3AED8170CCD907BB6EB64BB3BEB03536E6375811B22803CECFC359AA2D030AFFE6867539C58DDBDA3originRegion=us-east-1originCreation=20210620152526
>
>
> In this paper they mention that the particles produced by Holmlid's
> reaction resemble the output of an annihilation
> reaction. I put it to you that the reason for this is that they are the
> result of an annihilation reaction.
> Holmlid's ultra dense Hydrogen may the means by which Protium is converted
> into anti-Hydrogen, according to
>
> e- + p+ <=> e+ + p-  (matter/anti-matter or charge exchange reaction).
>
> The e+ then annihilates the e- from another Hydrogen atom, and the p-
> annihilates the p+ from another Hydrogen atom.
>
> It is the latter reaction that is responsible for the Kaons, mesons, muons
> etc.
>
> You may recall that I mentioned sometime ago that the anti-matter to
> matter conversion might be a little asymmetric,
> such that a small amount of energy is required to convert matter into
> anti-matter, with this asymmetry being responsible
> for the prevalence of matter over anti-matter in the Universe.
>
> Perhaps the condensation energy of the Holmlid-hydrogen is sufficient to
> overcome the asymmetry, and convert ordinary
> Hydrogen into anti-Hydrogen? Maybe with some help from the laser along the
> way?
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk 
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Robin]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sun, 20 Jun 2021 15:47:20 + (UTC):
Hi,
[snip]

https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0360319921008144?token=EBB8CA34BB83E3A3AED8170CCD907BB6EB64BB3BEB03536E6375811B22803CECFC359AA2D030AFFE6867539C58DDBDA3originRegion=us-east-1originCreation=20210620152526


In this paper they mention that the particles produced by Holmlid's reaction 
resemble the output of an annihilation
reaction. I put it to you that the reason for this is that they are the result 
of an annihilation reaction.
Holmlid's ultra dense Hydrogen may the means by which Protium is converted into 
anti-Hydrogen, according to 

e- + p+ <=> e+ + p-  (matter/anti-matter or charge exchange reaction).

The e+ then annihilates the e- from another Hydrogen atom, and the p- 
annihilates the p+ from another Hydrogen atom.

It is the latter reaction that is responsible for the Kaons, mesons, muons etc.

You may recall that I mentioned sometime ago that the anti-matter to matter 
conversion might be a little asymmetric,
such that a small amount of energy is required to convert matter into 
anti-matter, with this asymmetry being responsible
for the prevalence of matter over anti-matter in the Universe.

Perhaps the condensation energy of the Holmlid-hydrogen is sufficient to 
overcome the asymmetry, and convert ordinary
Hydrogen into anti-Hydrogen? Maybe with some help from the laser along the way?
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 Yes - The lack of clarity about what is being produced does not inspire 
confidence for the Norront investors.
However, in that confused situation - if the annihilation particles are actual, 
whatever they are, and do indeed catalyze deuterium fusion, as they claim -- 
then we are still on the cusp of a new age of cheap energy, and ITER is an 
unneeded waste of resources.
But also the possibility that potassium is overlooked as a reactant - and could 
be utilized for a simpler form of energy is still very intriguing, no matter 
what else happens.


Axil Axil wrote:  
 
 Did you see this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHVG5NYLyQ

Holmlid's replicators cannot identify the particles that Holmlid claims to be 
seeing. Also. the particles that show up in the cloud chamber happen to be 
strange radiation.
Jones Beene wrote:

This chart could lead to an interesting experiment - see Fig 4 of the paper 
below, which relates to the desorption energy of K at a graphite surface.
Imagine a few drops of water on a graphite plate -- H2O containing dissolved 
KCl -- and irradiated in an oven. Sparks may fly as water is split and 
recombined.

Would low energy microwaves be converted into ionizing UV ?
Perhaps  - according to the new paper by Holmlid

 
 



  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Did you see this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHVG5NYLyQ

Holmlid's replicators cannot identify the particles that Holmlid claims to
be seeing. Also. the particles that show up in the cloud chamber happen to
be strange radiation.

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 11:47 AM Jones Beene  wrote:

> This chart could lead to an interesting experiment - see Fig 4 of the
> paper below, which relates to the desorption energy of K at a graphite
> surface.
>
> Imagine a few drops of water on a graphite plate -- H2O containing
> dissolved KCl -- and irradiated in an oven. Sparks may fly as water is
> split and recombined.
>
> Would low energy microwaves be converted into ionizing UV ?
>
> Perhaps  - according to the new paper by Holmlid
>
>
> Production of ultra-dense hydrogen H(0): A novel nuclear fuel
> 
>
> Production of ultra-dense hydrogen H(0): A novel nuclear fuel
>
> Condensation of hydrogen Rydberg atoms (highly electronically excited)
> into the lowest energy state of condensed...
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

This chart could lead to an interesting experiment - see Fig 4 of the paper 
below, which relates to the desorption energy of K at a graphite surface.
Imagine a few drops of water on a graphite plate -- H2O containing dissolved 
KCl -- and irradiated in an oven. Sparks may fly as water is split and 
recombined.

Would low energy microwaves be converted into ionizing UV ?
Perhaps  - according to the new paper by Holmlid

Production of ultra-dense hydrogen H(0): A novel nuclear fuel

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Production of ultra-dense hydrogen H(0): A novel nuclear fuel

Condensation of hydrogen Rydberg atoms (highly electronically excited) into the 
lowest energy state of condensed...
 |

 |

 |



 
 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Regarding: "contamination"

The elimination of the possibility of contamination is why I posted above
in this thread to Michael Foster to pretest for sodium in the
potassium salt contamination before Mike ran the microwave test. I posted
to Mike as follows:

Mike:

There may be transmutation of potassium to sodium going on. The cessation
of the sparking before all the water boils off may indicate that the
majority of the potassium has been transmuted to sodium since the potassium
carries the reaction and sodium does not.

Initially in order to establish a baseline, check for sodium
before sparking the solution to establish sodium is not present in the
potassium salt. After the sparking stops, test for sodium. Vaporize the
salt and look for the yellow spectrum bands.

Also:

The indication of carbon to iron and silicon transmutation in the
Ferrosilicon smelting process is about as macro of a system as you will
find. I anticipate that you will site contamination again but the controls
in the smelting process are too controlled to sustain contamination as a
possibility.

I posted above in this thread as follows:

Transmutation is NOT gainful. The reaction occurs in a coherent
environment that is in a state of superposition. Any energy that would be
produced is not realized and is placed in the cosmic trash can by quantum
mechanics.

This assertion is shown here

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf


Silcal Metallurgic Ltd. system produced 4.5 tons of transmutation per day
for weeks on end without the appearance of any excess energy.

Also, How can chickens produce calcium in their gut if transmutation
generates excess energy?



Note section 7 of this ICCF submission as follows:

 7. Puzzle of the Missing Nuclear Energy

*A worth noting feature of the Silcal observations was that there was no
dramatic change whatsoever in the energy dissipation. Using the estimated
energy release values of 17.13 MeV/atom of Si or 49.58 MeV per atom of Fe
given in Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it
can be shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal transmutation, the
power generated should have been the equivalent of the total thermal power
generated by hundreds of 1000MWe nuclear power stations. However, in our
plant there was no evidence of such massive amounts of nuclear energy being
released throughout the 11-week period, giving a handle to the skeptics to
question our claims of ton level elemental transmutations. In this context
it is worth noting that nobody in published LENR literature (to the best of
our knowledge) has established a clear correlation between the quantum of
transmutation products generated in carbon arc and the expected nuclear
heat release based on atomic mass considerations. On the other hand neither
has any publication claimed that the Carbon Arc experiment violates
Einstein’s E = mc2 dictum. Thus if indeed the Silcal transmutation claims
are confirmed it would clearly point to the operation of new Science
wherein transmutation could be occurring without the accompaniment of the
expected nuclear energy release.*


*In the context of these remarks the arguments of Daniel Szumski elaborated
in his “Least Action Nuclear Process” (LANP) Theory appear relevant. We
learnt about Szumski’s work through his paper presented at ICCF 20
conference [13]. Szumski who has taken great pains to analyze in detail the
transmutation observations of George Miley (see
www.LeastActionNuclearProcess.com
) argues that both endothermic
and exothermic nuclear reactions can and do occur concurrently in LENR
experiments, partly or wholly cancelling out net energy release. In fact he
has referred to some experimental observations of Mizuno wherein
transmutations have reportedly been observed by him not accompanied by
energy release. Szumski is thus not at all surprised by our observation of
“energy neutral” transmutation reactions.*



On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jones Beene  wrote:

> Invoking a nebulous QM effect to explain a macro phenomenon is not really
> useful.
>
> All I see here is that you have proposed an imaginary explanation with
> little relevance to large scale activity in the real-world. Feynman would
> balk at this mis-interpretation of his ideas.
>
> If there is to be elemental "transmutation" of non-fissile elements, which
> is normally extremely energetic, then there must be a real and testable
> underlying nuclear reaction and real data, but here with K and Na, none is
> proposed nor even imaginable.
>
> However...
>
> In the case of potassium transmuting into calcium (Kervran effect), which
> stands in stark contrast to the situation with sodium, there is actually
> presented a real-world underlying nuclear reaction of lower energy, and
> with tons of real world evidence  - with which to support the surprising
> claim.
>
> But with vastly different 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 Invoking a nebulous QM effect to explain a macro phenomenon is not really 
useful. 

All I see here is that you have proposed an imaginary explanation with little 
relevance to large scale activity in the real-world. Feynman would balk at this 
mis-interpretation of his ideas.

If there is to be elemental "transmutation" of non-fissile elements, which is 
normally extremely energetic, then there must be a real and testable underlying 
nuclear reaction and real data, but here with K and Na, none is proposed nor 
even imaginable. 

However...

In the case of potassium transmuting into calcium (Kervran effect), which 
stands in stark contrast to the situation with sodium, there is actually 
presented a real-world underlying nuclear reaction of lower energy, and with 
tons of real world evidence  - with which to support the surprising claim. 

But with vastly different atomic weights such as between sodium and potassium, 
there is no credible expectation of transmutation, and ... in the end... 
contamination is the most likely explanation.

--

Axil Axil wrote:  
 
 See my post above on this thread at
| 
 | Jun 12, 2021, 12:04 AM (5 days ago)






















 |


Transmutation never produces any particles, radiation or energy  is not 
knowable  because of quantum mechanical superposition and Feynman's Infinite 
Quantum Paths theory. The state of superposition is only completed until the 
transmutation has long been completed..for theory details 
seehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSFRN-ymfgE


On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 6:20 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

 Axil,
Wouldn't that kind of transmutation involve releasing two alphas from the K 
nucleus ?
AFAIK that would be unknown to physics ... or what kind or reaction are you 
suggesting?


Axil Axil wrote:  
 The sodium lines seen in the grape microwave experiment may have come from 
transmutation of potassium into sodium, Grapes don't contain much sodium: 2mg 
vs, 176mg per cup
 
 


  
  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

See my post above on this thread at

Jun 12, 2021, 12:04 AM (5 days ago)
























Transmutation never produces any particles, radiation or energy  is not
knowable  because of quantum mechanical superposition and Feynman's
Infinite Quantum Paths theory. The state of superposition is only
completed until the transmutation has long been completed.
.
for theory details see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSFRN-ymfgE


On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 6:20 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> Axil,
>
> Wouldn't that kind of transmutation involve releasing two alphas from the
> K nucleus ?
>
> AFAIK that would be unknown to physics ... or what kind or reaction are
> you suggesting?
>
>
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
> The sodium lines seen in the grape microwave experiment may have come from
> transmutation of potassium into sodium, Grapes don't contain much sodium:
> 2mg vs, 176mg per cup
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 Axil,
Wouldn't that kind of transmutation involve releasing two alphas from the K 
nucleus ?
AFAIK that would be unknown to physics ... or what kind or reaction are you 
suggesting?


Axil Axil wrote:  
 The sodium lines seen in the grape microwave experiment may have come from 
transmutation of potassium into sodium, Grapes don't contain much sodium: 2mg 
vs, 176mg per cup
 
 


  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

The sodium lines seen in the grape microwave experiment may have come from
transmutation of potassium into sodium, Grapes don't contain much sodium:
2mg vs, 176mg per cup

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> The sparking phenomenon of KCl is partially explained by the "plasma
> grape" phenomenon, especially since grapes contain potassium and sodium.
>
> Here is a video of the grape effect - which goes part of the way to
> explain the more general case,
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCrtk-pyP0I
>
> At about 6:40 in the video Veritasium shows the emission spectrum of the
> plasma which is basically a spike of potassium with contribution of sodium.
> A further contribution from hydrinos is doubtful due to the absence of
> Lyman line broadening.
>
> The self-focusing standing wave and internal reflection of the microwaves
> in grapes provide heat but no plasma since the GHz photons are
> non-ionizing, and essentially most of the plasma consists of potassium and
> sodium ions indicating that they are somehow activated. Since grapes
> contain sugar which ignites with the sparking - a situation of using no
> "fuel" (plain KCl solution) would be more impressive.
>
> A further refinement would be to fill a pair of tiny balloons (about the
> size of grapes) with a KCl solution then nuke them and compare that
> sparking to the grapes -- in order to gauge the contribution of "fuel"
> (sugars).
>
> --
>
> Potassium atoms are strongly sensitive to a magnetic field. This could
> relate to what is happening in the experiment where microwave radiation is
> applied to KCl  (at least in the sense of ultra strong coupling to the
> gigahertz waves from the oven.)
>
> The most sensitive magnetometer available , named SERF - comes from
> Princeton and consists of a cell containing potassium vapor and a buffer
> gas. The unpaired electrons on the potassium atoms are spin-polarized so
> that a probe detects the precession of spin in the presence of a magnetic
> field. This device is capable of incredible sensitivities on the order of 10
> -18 Tesla, 1000 times more sensitive than a SQUID detector.
>
> Thus microwave radiation, already efficient, can be utilized in a more
> efficient way - perhaps becoming strongly ionizing and splitting water.
>
> IOW it is possible that the extreme spin sensitivity of potassium to RF is
> a little understood effect -- maybe one looking for an application.
>
> -
>
>
> I like the sound of "something strange going on."
>
> Heck, it might be worthwhile to try various mixtures of KCl and NaCl to
> see if there is an obvious particular ratio where the sparking is maximized.
>
> Mills uses a pinhole technique for finding UV where he actually drills a
> sub-mm hole into the reactor wall with line of sight to the plasma, and
> mounts and glues a photocell UV detector chip over the hole - but that is
> for a vacuum reactor.
>
> Robin may have experience with this...?
>
>
> Michael Foster wrote:
>
> Some of the sparking looks a little too far from the surface of the glass
> container to be contaminated by it and there's a lot of sodium spectrum
> being displayed. *So something strange is going on*, I think.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 The sparking phenomenon of KCl is partially explained by the "plasma grape" 
phenomenon, especially since grapes contain potassium and sodium. 

Here is a video of the grape effect - which goes part of the way to explain the 
more general case,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCrtk-pyP0I
At about 6:40 in the video Veritasium shows the emission spectrum of the plasma 
which is basically a spike of potassium with contribution of sodium. A further 
contribution from hydrinos is doubtful due to the absence of Lyman line 
broadening.

The self-focusing standing wave and internal reflection of the microwaves in 
grapes provide heat but no plasma since the GHz photons are non-ionizing, and 
essentially most of the plasma consists of potassium and sodium ions indicating 
that they are somehow activated. Since grapes contain sugar which ignites with 
the sparking - a situation of using no "fuel" (plain KCl solution) would be 
more impressive. 

A further refinement would be to fill a pair of tiny balloons (about the size 
of grapes) with a KCl solution then nuke them and compare that sparking to the 
grapes -- in order to gauge the contribution of "fuel" (sugars).

   --
 
 Potassium atoms are strongly sensitive to a magnetic field. This could relate 
to what is happening in the experiment where microwave radiation is applied to 
KCl  (at least in the sense of ultra strong coupling to the gigahertz waves 
from the oven.)

The most sensitive magnetometer available , named SERF - comes from Princeton 
and consists of a cell containing potassium vapor and a buffer gas. The 
unpaired electrons on the potassium atoms are spin-polarized so that a probe 
detects the precession of spin in the presence of a magnetic field. This device 
is capable of incredible sensitivities on the order of 10-18 Tesla, 1000 times 
more sensitive than a SQUID detector. 

Thus microwave radiation, already efficient, can be utilized in a more 
efficient way - perhaps becoming strongly ionizing and splitting water.

IOW it is possible that the extreme spin sensitivity of potassium to RF is a 
little understood effect -- maybe one looking for an application.

-

 
 I like the sound of "something strange going on."
Heck, it might be worthwhile to try various mixtures of KCl and NaCl to see if 
there is an obvious particular ratio where the sparking is maximized.
Mills uses a pinhole technique for finding UV where he actually drills a sub-mm 
hole into the reactor wall with line of sight to the plasma, and mounts and 
glues a photocell UV detector chip over the hole - but that is for a vacuum 
reactor.
Robin may have experience with this...?


 Michael Foster wrote:

Some of the sparking looks a little too far from the surface of the glass 
container to be contaminated by it and there's a lot of sodium spectrum being 
displayed. So something strange is going on, I think.
 
 
 

  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Robin]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:45:37 + (UTC):
Hi,
[snip]
>I like the sound of "something strange going on."
>Heck, it might be worthwhile to try various mixtures of KCl and NaCl to see if 
>there is an obvious particular ratio where the sparking is maximized.
>Mills uses a pinhole technique for finding UV where he actually drills a 
>sub-mm hole into the reactor wall with line of sight to the plasma, and mounts 
>and glues a photocell UV detector chip over the hole - but that is for a 
>vacuum reactor.
>Robin may have experience with this...?

sorry..no.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

Potassium atoms are strongly sensitive to a magnetic field. This could relate 
to what is happening in the experiment where microwave radiation is applied to 
KCl  (at least in the sense of ultra strong coupling to the gigahertz waves 
from the oven.)

The most sensitive magnetometer available , named SERF - comes from Princeton 
and consists of a cell containing potassium vapor and a buffer gas. The 
unpaired electrons on the potassium atoms are spin-polarized so that a probe 
detects the precession of spin in the presence of a magnetic field. This device 
is capable of incredible sensitivities on the order of 10-18 Tesla, 1000 times 
more sensitive than a SQUID detector. 

Thus microwave radiation, already efficient, can be utilized in a more 
efficient way - perhaps becoming strongly ionizing and splitting water.

IOW it is possible that the extreme spin sensitivity of potassium to RF is a 
little understood effect -- maybe one looking for an application.

-

 
 I like the sound of "something strange going on."
Heck, it might be worthwhile to try various mixtures of KCl and NaCl to see if 
there is an obvious particular ratio where the sparking is maximized.
Mills uses a pinhole technique for finding UV where he actually drills a sub-mm 
hole into the reactor wall with line of sight to the plasma, and mounts and 
glues a photocell UV detector chip over the hole - but that is for a vacuum 
reactor.
Robin may have experience with this...?


 Michael Foster wrote:

Some of the sparking looks a little too far from the surface of the glass 
container to be contaminated by it and there's a lot of sodium spectrum being 
displayed. So something strange is going on, I think.
 
 
 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Michael Foster]

 Sorry Jones, I have no way to detect UV spectral lines with this setup. Even 
though the 1500 l/mm diffraction grating I used can pass UV wavelenghts down to 
about 255 nm it's unlikely they would get through the soda-lime glass jar and 
the microwave oven door. 27.2 eV and 13.6 eV are way into the vacuum 
ultraviolet and would be blocked by almost any common substances.

Some of the sparking looks a little too far from the surface of the glass 
container to be contaminated by it and there's a lot of sodium spectrum being 
displayed. So something strange is going on, I think.


 On Friday, June 11, 2021, 10:30:56 PM GMT+1, Jones Beene 
 wrote:  
 
 Most interesting, Michael.  It would be even more so (to Mills' investors :-)  
... if there had been some of the Mills' UV lines as predicted - 27.2 eV , 13.6 
eV and so on.

Did you see any UV lines at all?



Michael Foster wrote:
  
  I tried this and it looks really kewl indeed. The potassium chloride I used 
was pure enough that if you do a simple flame test, you don't get any of that 
yellow-orange sodium color. I watched the sparking with a 1500 lpm diffraction 
grating and the double D lines of sodium are way too bright to be accounted for 
from the potassium chloride. So it's either transmutation (unlikely), or the 
energy produced by the sparking is enough to remove some sodium from the wall 
of the glass container.
 
 I didn't see any of the characteristic hydrino spectral lines :-)
 
 
  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

I like the sound of "something strange going on."
Heck, it might be worthwhile to try various mixtures of KCl and NaCl to see if 
there is an obvious particular ratio where the sparking is maximized.
Mills uses a pinhole technique for finding UV where he actually drills a sub-mm 
hole into the reactor wall with line of sight to the plasma, and mounts and 
glues a photocell UV detector chip over the hole - but that is for a vacuum 
reactor.
Robin may have experience with this...?


 Michael Foster wrote:

Some of the sparking looks a little too far from the surface of the glass 
container to be contaminated by it and there's a lot of sodium spectrum being 
displayed. So something strange is going on, I think.
 
 
 

  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Mike:

There may be transmutation of potassium to sodium going on. The cessation
of the sparking before all the water boils off may indicate that the
majority of the potassium has been transmuted to sodium since the potassium
carries the reaction and sodium does not.

Initially in order to establish a baseline, check for sodium
before sparking the solution to establish sodium is not present in the
potassium salt. After the sparking stops, test for sodium. Vaporize the
salt and look for the yellow spectrum bands.

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 4:24 PM Michael Foster  wrote:

> Sorry Jones, I have no way to detect UV spectral lines with this setup.
> Even though the 1500 l/mm diffraction grating I used can pass UV
> wavelenghts down to about 255 nm it's unlikely they would get through the
> soda-lime glass jar and the microwave oven door. 27.2 eV and 13.6 eV are
> way into the vacuum ultraviolet and would be blocked by almost any common
> substances.
>
> Some of the sparking looks a little too far from the surface of the glass
> container to be contaminated by it and there's a lot of sodium spectrum
> being displayed. So something strange is going on, I think.
>
>
> On Friday, June 11, 2021, 10:30:56 PM GMT+1, Jones Beene <
> jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> Most interesting, Michael.  It would be even more so (to Mills' investors
> :-)  ... if there had been some of the Mills' UV lines as predicted - 27.2
> eV , 13.6 eV and so on.
>
> Did you see any UV lines at all?
>
>
>
>
> Michael Foster wrote:
>
> I tried this and it looks really kewl indeed. The potassium chloride I
> used was pure enough that if you do a simple flame test, you don't get any
> of that yellow-orange sodium color. I watched the sparking with a 1500 lpm
> diffraction grating and the double D lines of sodium are way too bright to
> be accounted for from the potassium chloride. So it's either transmutation
> (unlikely), or the energy produced by the sparking is enough to remove some
> sodium from the wall of the glass container.
>
> I didn't see any of the characteristic hydrino spectral lines :-)
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Transmutation is NOT gainful. The reaction occurs in a coherent
environment that is in a state of superposition. Any energy that would be
produced is not realized and is placed in the cosmic trash can by quantum
mechanics.

This assertion is shown here

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf


Silcal Metallurgic Ltd. system produced 4.5 tons of transmutation per day
for weeks on end without the appearance of any excess energy.

Also, How can chickens produce calcium in their gut if transmutation
generates excess energy?

On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 9:53 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> Worth mentioning is this - the experiment using radiation in the radio
> wave spectrum to excite an alkali dissolved in water is similar to the
> device invented by John Kanzius. This invention was initially used to treat
> cancer but could also split water and ignite the gas in a flame, which was
> quite impressive.
>
> Unfortunately the device proved to be not gainful, although it was very
> efficient. It used RF in the megahertz range, which was resonant with
> sodium.
>
> Using microwave irradiation with potassium has the potential to be gainful
> - to the extent Mills theory is correct, even if the Kanzius device was
> not. Apparently resonance is involved with KCl too.
>
> It would be rather amusing if an amazingly simply way to apply the hydrino
> theory turns up inadvertently on the internet, which Mills has himself
> completely missed.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

Worth mentioning is this - the experiment using radiation in the radio wave 
spectrum to excite an alkali dissolved in water is similar to the device 
invented by John Kanzius. This invention was initially used to treat cancer but 
could also split water and ignite the gas in a flame, which was quite 
impressive. 

Unfortunately the device proved to be not gainful, although it was very 
efficient. It used RF in the megahertz range, which was resonant with sodium.
Using microwave irradiation with potassium has the potential to be gainful - to 
the extent Mills theory is correct, even if the Kanzius device was not. 
Apparently resonance is involved with KCl too.

It would be rather amusing if an amazingly simply way to apply the hydrino 
theory turns up inadvertently on the internet, which Mills has himself 
completely missed.

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Robin]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 11 Jun 2021 21:30:50 + (UTC):
Hi,

You wouldn't see UV with a prism anyway. The glass absorbs the UV.


>Most interesting, Michael.  It would be even more so (to Mills' investors :-)  
>... if there had been some of the Mills' UV lines as predicted - 27.2 eV , 
>13.6 eV and so on.
>
>Did you see any UV lines at all?
>
>
>
>Michael Foster wrote:
>  
>  I tried this and it looks really kewl indeed. The potassium chloride I used 
> was pure enough that if you do a simple flame test, you don't get any of that 
> yellow-orange sodium color. I watched the sparking with a 1500 lpm 
> diffraction grating and the double D lines of sodium are way too bright to be 
> accounted for from the potassium chloride. So it's either transmutation 
> (unlikely), or the energy produced by the sparking is enough to remove some 
> sodium from the wall of the glass container.
> 
> I didn't see any of the characteristic hydrino spectral lines :-)
> 
> 
>  
>  
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Michael Foster]

 I tried this and it looks really kewl indeed. The potassium chloride I used 
was pure enough that if you do a simple flame test, you don't get any of that 
yellow-orange sodium color. I watched the sparking with a 1500 lpm diffraction 
grating and the double D lines of sodium are way too bright to be accounted for 
from the potassium chloride. So it's either transmutation (unlikely), or the 
energy produced by the sparking is enough to remove some sodium from the wall 
of the glass container.

I didn't see any of the characteristic hydrino spectral lines :-)


 On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 02:30:37 AM GMT+1, Jones Beene 
 wrote:  
 
 FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science 
fair project for a neighbor's son ... 

There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't require 
complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to find a 
discarded microwave oven of course...

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572


  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

Most interesting, Michael.  It would be even more so (to Mills' investors :-)  
... if there had been some of the Mills' UV lines as predicted - 27.2 eV , 13.6 
eV and so on.

Did you see any UV lines at all?



Michael Foster wrote:
  
  I tried this and it looks really kewl indeed. The potassium chloride I used 
was pure enough that if you do a simple flame test, you don't get any of that 
yellow-orange sodium color. I watched the sparking with a 1500 lpm diffraction 
grating and the double D lines of sodium are way too bright to be accounted for 
from the potassium chloride. So it's either transmutation (unlikely), or the 
energy produced by the sparking is enough to remove some sodium from the wall 
of the glass container.
 
 I didn't see any of the characteristic hydrino spectral lines :-)
 
 
  
  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Here a good summary of Klimov's research that is much more serious than 
R.Mills


https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/1698/1/012034/pdf

He is talking of Hybrid atoms like NiH* that already Dufour mentioned 
(he did show spectra) in Asti.


J.W.


On 11.06.2021 22:23, Michael Foster wrote:
I tried this and it looks really kewl indeed. The potassium chloride I 
used was pure enough that if you do a simple flame test, you don't get 
any of that yellow-orange sodium color. I watched the sparking with a 
1500 lpm diffraction grating and the double D lines of sodium are way 
too bright to be accounted for from the potassium chloride. So it's 
either transmutation (unlikely), or the energy produced by the 
sparking is enough to remove some sodium from the wall of the glass 
container.


I didn't see any of the characteristic hydrino spectral lines :-)


On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 02:30:37 AM GMT+1, Jones Beene 
 wrote:



FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a 
science fair project for a neighbor's son ...


There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't 
require complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs 
to find a discarded microwave oven of course...


https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572 






--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

https://www.slideshare.net/exopolitika/egely-gyrgy-nano-dust-fusion-40pages

George Elely - nanodust fusion documents his experements.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:29 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> If memory serves, they ran a EDX on the processed carbon and iron was
> detected. Anyway, George Egely has rum many microwave based experiments
> where transmutation was preduced.
> George Egely -
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:23 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> There is no fusion taking place in this video. No transmutation either.
>>
>> There is a mundane explanation for the magnetism.
>>
>>
>>
>> Axil Axilwrote:
>>
>>
>> Dr George Egely  generates transmutation using a microwave.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms411WCBEZk
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

If memory serves, they ran a EDX on the processed carbon and iron was
detected. Anyway, George Egely has rum many microwave based experiments
where transmutation was preduced.
George Egely -

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:23 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> There is no fusion taking place in this video. No transmutation either.
>
> There is a mundane explanation for the magnetism.
>
>
>
> Axil Axilwrote:
>
>
> Dr George Egely  generates transmutation using a microwave.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms411WCBEZk
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 There is no fusion taking place in this video. No transmutation either.

There is a mundane explanation for the magnetism.


Axil Axilwrote:  
 
 Dr George Egely  generates transmutation using a microwave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms411WCBEZk


  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

By the way, if any transmutation is occuring, then the experiment is not
related to the Hydrino since that theory disavows any transmutation.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:14 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> Dr George Egely  generates transmutation using a microwave.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms411WCBEZk
>
> Regarding: "The odd thing is that I evap't a beaker of about 600ml of KCl
> (heated to boiling for about 10 mins) and I didn't see anything happen
> then. I stopped before the amount of liquid dropped below 400ml though".
>
> The sparking may have stoped because the potasium might have all been
> transmuted or highly contaminated by transmuted reactants.
>
> Maybe we can get magicsound to do this experiment and use his SEM to chech
> for transmutation.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:56 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> Once formed, the EVO could possibly be pumped with energy from microwaves
>> or other forms of radiation --but--  AFAIK the actual formation of the EVO
>> itself takes place only on a "special" electrode, which actually is the key
>> to Shoulder's work (and former trade secret).
>>
>> Sounds like someone may be trying to conflate with Shoulder's EVO and a
>> different phenomenon.
>>
>> Axil Axil wrote:
>>
>>
>> Microwaves delever energy to the EVOs "wirelessly" (without electodes).
>> If you need references to beleive this I will supply some.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Dr George Egely  generates transmutation using a microwave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms411WCBEZk

Regarding: "The odd thing is that I evap't a beaker of about 600ml of KCl
(heated to boiling for about 10 mins) and I didn't see anything happen
then. I stopped before the amount of liquid dropped below 400ml though".

The sparking may have stoped because the potasium might have all been
transmuted or highly contaminated by transmuted reactants.

Maybe we can get magicsound to do this experiment and use his SEM to chech
for transmutation.


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:56 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> Once formed, the EVO could possibly be pumped with energy from microwaves
> or other forms of radiation --but--  AFAIK the actual formation of the EVO
> itself takes place only on a "special" electrode, which actually is the key
> to Shoulder's work (and former trade secret).
>
> Sounds like someone may be trying to conflate with Shoulder's EVO and a
> different phenomenon.
>
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
>
> Microwaves delever energy to the EVOs "wirelessly" (without electodes). If
> you need references to beleive this I will supply some.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 Hope it is at least a kilowatt oven as high power may be important...

Terry Blanton  wrote:  

FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science fair 
project for a neighbor's son ...

Kewl.  I think I still have the old microwave in the basement that I used to 
make ball lightning using a candle.  I'll give it a shot if it works still.   

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 Once formed, the EVO could possibly be pumped with energy from microwaves or 
other forms of radiation --but--  AFAIK the actual formation of the EVO itself 
takes place only on a "special" electrode, which actually is the key to 
Shoulder's work (and former trade secret).
Sounds like someone may be trying to conflate with Shoulder's EVO and a 
different phenomenon.

Axil Axil wrote:  
 
 Microwaves delever energy to the EVOs "wirelessly" (without electodes). If you 
need references to beleive this I will supply some.    

  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 9:30 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science
> fair project for a neighbor's son ...
>

Kewl.  I think I still have the old microwave in the basement that I used
to make ball lightning using a candle.  I'll give it a shot if it works
still.

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Microwaves delever energy to the EVOs "wirelessly" (without electodes). If
you need references to beleive this I will supply some.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:34 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> AFAIK the EVO would necessarily form on an electrode - but there isn't any
> corresponding electrode in this experiment unless I missed something.
>
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
> This could be related to the way potassium generates clusters of Rydberg
> matter as per Holmlid and catalyzes the production of EVOs. The EVOs grow
> until the point of instability whereupon they explode in a bosenova. If
> this is happening, there would be X-rays produced by the bosenova as the
> high energy electrons produce Bremsstrahlung while undergoing
> thermalization. The use of self developing dental X-ray film would be a
> proper detection method for those X-rays.
>
> buy self developing dental X-ray film here
>
> self developing dental X-ray film
>
> The size of the spark looks about right for a 500 Gev Bosenova.
>
> Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Good question. In the early days Mills focused on potassium as a necessary
> catalyst for working with nickel electrolysis - and which which we now
> learn will apparently both split water and produce a plasma with microwave
> irradiation, while sodium will not. So - this experiment kind of fits into
> Mills' theory even though he never used RF to any great extent.
>
> One can imagine improvements to this which could possibly provide much
> more information. This is actually more complex than it seems at first. I
> am amazed that apparently water is being split by the oven - or is there an
> alternative explanation?
>
>
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
>
> Interesting. What is ypur take about the theory behind the production of
> sparks? Why Hydrinos?
>
> Jones Beene wrote:
>
> FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science
> fair project for a neighbor's son ...
>
> There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't
> require complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to
> find a discarded microwave oven of course...
>
> https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

 AFAIK the EVO would necessarily form on an electrode - but there isn't any 
corresponding electrode in this experiment unless I missed something.

Axil Axil wrote:  
 This could be related to the way potassium generates clusters of Rydberg 
matter as per Holmlid and catalyzes the production of EVOs. The EVOs grow until 
the point of instability whereupon they explode in a bosenova. If this is 
happening, there would be X-rays produced by the bosenova as the high energy 
electrons produce Bremsstrahlung while undergoing thermalization. The use of 
self developing dental X-ray film would be a proper detection method for those 
X-rays.

buy self developing dental X-ray film here

self developing dental X-ray film

The size of the spark looks about right for a 500 Gev Bosenova.

Jones Beene wrote:

Good question. In the early days Mills focused on potassium as a necessary 
catalyst for working with nickel electrolysis - and which which we now learn 
will apparently both split water and produce a plasma with microwave 
irradiation, while sodium will not. So - this experiment kind of fits into 
Mills' theory even though he never used RF to any great extent. 

One can imagine improvements to this which could possibly provide much more 
information. This is actually more complex than it seems at first. I am amazed 
that apparently water is being split by the oven - or is there an alternative 
explanation?


Axil Axil wrote:  
 
 Interesting. What is ypur take about the theory behind the production of 
sparks? Why Hydrinos?
Jones Beene wrote:

FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science fair 
project for a neighbor's son ... 

There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't require 
complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to find a 
discarded microwave oven of course...

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572



  
  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

buy self developing dental X-ray film here

https://www.amazon.com/Ergonom-X-Similar-Dental-Eco-30-Developing/dp/B07SB3XSKH/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1=self+developing+x-ray+film=1623292052=8-1

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:24 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> This could be related to the way potassium generates clusters of Rydberg
> matter as per Holmlid and catalyzes the production of EVOs. The EVOs grow
> until the point of instability whereupon they explode in a bosenova. If
> this is happening, there would be X-rays produced by the bosenova as the
> high energy electrons produce Bremsstrahlung while undergoing
> thermalization. The use of self developing dental X-ray film would be a
> proper detection method for those X-rays.
>
> buy self developing dental X-ray film here
>
> self developing dental X-ray film
>
> The size of the spark looks about right for a 500 Gev Bosenova.
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:09 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> Good question. In the early days Mills focused on potassium as a
>> necessary catalyst for working with nickel electrolysis - and which which
>> we now learn will apparently both split water and produce a plasma with
>> microwave irradiation, while sodium will not. So - this experiment kind of
>> fits into Mills' theory even though he never used RF to any great extent.
>>
>> One can imagine improvements to this which could possibly provide much
>> more information. This is actually more complex than it seems at first. I
>> am amazed that apparently water is being split by the oven - or is there an
>> alternative explanation?
>>
>>
>> Axil Axil wrote:
>>
>>
>> Interesting. What is ypur take about the theory behind the production of
>> sparks? Why Hydrinos?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 9:30 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>>
>> FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a
>> science fair project for a neighbor's son ...
>>
>> There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't
>> require complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to
>> find a discarded microwave oven of course...
>>
>> https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

This could be related to the way potassium generates clusters of Rydberg
matter as per Holmlid and catalyzes the production of EVOs. The EVOs grow
until the point of instability whereupon they explode in a bosenova. If
this is happening, there would be X-rays produced by the bosenova as the
high energy electrons produce Bremsstrahlung while undergoing
thermalization. The use of self developing dental X-ray film would be a
proper detection method for those X-rays.

buy self developing dental X-ray film here

self developing dental X-ray film

The size of the spark looks about right for a 500 Gev Bosenova.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:09 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> Good question. In the early days Mills focused on potassium as a necessary
> catalyst for working with nickel electrolysis - and which which we now
> learn will apparently both split water and produce a plasma with microwave
> irradiation, while sodium will not. So - this experiment kind of fits into
> Mills' theory even though he never used RF to any great extent.
>
> One can imagine improvements to this which could possibly provide much
> more information. This is actually more complex than it seems at first. I
> am amazed that apparently water is being split by the oven - or is there an
> alternative explanation?
>
>
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
>
> Interesting. What is ypur take about the theory behind the production of
> sparks? Why Hydrinos?
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 9:30 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science
> fair project for a neighbor's son ...
>
> There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't
> require complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to
> find a discarded microwave oven of course...
>
> https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Jones Beene]

Good question. In the early days Mills focused on potassium as a necessary 
catalyst for working with nickel electrolysis - and which which we now learn 
will apparently both split water and produce a plasma with microwave 
irradiation, while sodium will not. So - this experiment kind of fits into 
Mills' theory even though he never used RF to any great extent. 

One can imagine improvements to this which could possibly provide much more 
information. This is actually more complex than it seems at first. I am amazed 
that apparently water is being split by the oven - or is there an alternative 
explanation?


Axil Axil wrote:  
 
 Interesting. What is ypur take about the theory behind the production of 
sparks? Why Hydrinos?
On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 9:30 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science fair 
project for a neighbor's son ... 

There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't require 
complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to find a 
discarded microwave oven of course...

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572



  

Re: [Vo]:Hydrino validation?

[Axil Axil]

Interesting. What is ypur take about the theory behind the production of
sparks? Why Hydrinos?

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 9:30 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> FWIW - I ran across a simple experiment while looking around for a science
> fair project for a neighbor's son ...
>
> There are not many experiments which are both robust, cheap and don't
> require complex data logging to suggest the energy anomaly. One needs to
> find a discarded microwave oven of course...
>
> https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74572
>
>
>
>