RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Horace - The object was low in the SSW about an hour after sunset. Still working on finding out the viewing angle and umbra position, but the max sight angle was around 22 degrees. Came up vertically from the horizon out of the SSW, turned towards the west and moved parallel to the horizon for a while, then back down towards the SW as it darkened and winked out. I'm assuming there that the loss of light was due to a change of attitude of the object's reflective surface since it appeared at the end to have been moving towards more sunlight. I looked up ISS orbits and watched it make a good overhead pass the other night at about 20 minutes later than the UFO sighting for a comparable view. Apparent speed through the sky was around the same or a bit faster, and the pale yellow color changed to the orange, then reddish orange color as the ISS approached the umbra and went out, at the end it was similar in color to the UFO. The UFO was much brighter though, and had the reddish orange color through most of its flight, as opposed to the ISS showing that color only for the last couple of seconds of its path. The UFO seemed a little more yellow right at first as it was rising up in the sky and was at its brightest. Up would be coming from the SSW, away from the sunset and towards shadow. The sunset that day was more colorful too, so it may have contributed to the orange color over a wider altitude range. I would say that after a fresh look at the ISS, the UFO was probably a rather large object. It was substantially brighter than I've ever seen the ISS, and the ISS, now completed and in full sail, is pretty spectacular. R. From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:32 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting? I wrote: If the object was ever in a direction approximately due north or south of you, i.e. on a line perpendicular to the sunset location, then the altitude h I provided fairly closely applies to the object for that time t in the table. If it was mainly east or west then another calculation is needed. I would say anything above 100,000 feet, or 18.9 miles, was probably not a military jet, and certainly not a passenger jet. That altitude h corresponds to about 22 minutes after surface darkness - to whatever degree such darkness needs to be defined. From experience there, I know it gets dark pretty fast in Hawaii after sunset - especially compared to here - where sunsets can take a very long time. 8^) If you observed the object an hour after sunset then I'd say it was well past the 22 minutes after darkness mark. A general compass direction thus may be sufficient information for a definitive answer. That far after sunset, an hour, taken even alone, is a pretty strong indication it was not an airplane. I overlooked the fact that if the object were to the east of you then the umbra plane would be even higher. It is only when the object was to the west of you that there can be any doubt at all. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
I wrote: If the object was ever in a direction approximately due north or south of you, i.e. on a line perpendicular to the sunset location, then the altitude h I provided fairly closely applies to the object for that time t in the table. If it was mainly east or west then another calculation is needed. I would say anything above 100,000 feet, or 18.9 miles, was probably not a military jet, and certainly not a passenger jet. That altitude h corresponds to about 22 minutes after surface darkness - to whatever degree such darkness needs to be defined. From experience there, I know it gets dark pretty fast in Hawaii after sunset - especially compared to here - where sunsets can take a very long time. 8^) If you observed the object an hour after sunset then I'd say it was well past the 22 minutes after darkness mark. A general compass direction thus may be sufficient information for a definitive answer. That far after sunset, an hour, taken even alone, is a pretty strong indication it was not an airplane. I overlooked the fact that if the object were to the east of you then the umbra plane would be even higher. It is only when the object was to the west of you that there can be any doubt at all. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
A Falcon project remnant? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Force_Application_and_Launch_from_Continental_United_States#FALCON http://tinyurl.com/ydsfv7r Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
From: Terry Blanton Sounds like a Fastwalker. Aurora? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
http://www.fastwalkers.com/ On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: From: Terry Blanton Sounds like a Fastwalker. Aurora? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
We don't get many sightings out here, we're a distinct dull spot on the UFO observation map. This is the my first sighting spanning 40 years here of something having a real chance of being anomalous. By coincidence we have the chief of state vacationing here, and some of the more conventional rings of security are easily seen. The ships offshore, military flights in patterns not usually flown, etc. I've read of accounts and seen the videos of anomalous things lurking on the periphery of military operations, but it's highly speculative that it might have had anything to do with the sighting. I still have to run the numbers, and I wanted to get outside to re-check and identify the stars near its path, but it was overcast last night. I did find some useful astronomy websites, found out that the upper limb of the sun (including that atmospheric distortion margin) was 13.84 degrees below the horizon at the time, a bit after official marine twilight (pretty dark). R. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:00 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting? From: Terry Blanton Sounds like a Fastwalker. Aurora? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rick Monteverde r...@highsurf.com wrote: We don't get many sightings out here, we're a distinct dull spot on the UFO observation map. Someone searching for Obama's birth certificate? Terry
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
In case there is any doubt, the following is my final answer - unless of course I find other mistakes! 8^) On Dec 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Horace Heffner wrote: Hi Rick, Coincidentally, I saw something similar yesterday (Dec 28, 2009) around noon AKST, (about 11 orbits later) west of Palmer AK, but heading SW. It was one small finger width at arms length above the horizon. It had a periodic (about 10 second) flash to it, so I assumed it might be a booster, but strange it was heading SW, not SE or NE, or just S. Of course a U-turn is not a typical satellite maneuver, nor did I see that! The altitude h to the directly overhead sun midline is given by: h = r_earth * ( SQRT(1 + sin^2 theta) -1) Given time after sunset t we have: theta = (t/(8.64x10^4 s))*(2*Pi) radians = (t/(1440 min))*(2*Pi) radians Earth radius, r_earth, at Hawaii is about 3951 mi. Here are some numbers: t (min) theta (radians) h (miles) 1 0.00436331944 0.03760073165 5 0.02181659722 0.93976780755 10 0.04363319444 3.75594358 20 0.08726638889 14.973936498 30 0.13089958333 33.506081478 60 0.26179916667 130.1553394 90 0.39269875 279.3533269 Since the above is time after total sunset, you don't have to correct for the angular width of the sun. However, even total sunset is not good enough to black out an object though, due to light diffraction. Clearly not enough time, i.e. shortly after sunset, passed to rule out an airplane. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Horace - My sighting wasn't just after sunset, it was just after nightfall - total darkness. There was just a vague hint of fading light on the horizon, but the sky surrounding the object, which was relatively low in the southwest, was already black. I did find something on the after-sunset atmospheric distortion - they say add 6 arc minutes to the apparent semidiameter of the sun. I'll try to muddle through your figures in a little while. I sure appreciate the help, thanks. - R. From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:08 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting? In case there is any doubt, the following is my final answer - unless of course I find other mistakes! 8^) On Dec 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Horace Heffner wrote: Hi Rick, Coincidentally, I saw something similar yesterday (Dec 28, 2009) around noon AKST, (about 11 orbits later) west of Palmer AK, but heading SW. It was one small finger width at arms length above the horizon. It had a periodic (about 10 second) flash to it, so I assumed it might be a booster, but strange it was heading SW, not SE or NE, or just S. Of course a U-turn is not a typical satellite maneuver, nor did I see that! The altitude h to the directly overhead sun midline is given by: h = r_earth * ( SQRT(1 + sin^2 theta) -1) Given time after sunset t we have: theta = (t/(8.64x10^4 s))*(2*Pi) radians = (t/(1440 min))*(2*Pi) radians Earth radius, r_earth, at Hawaii is about 3951 mi. Here are some numbers: t (min) theta (radians) h (miles) 1 0.00436331944 0.03760073165 5 0.02181659722 0.93976780755 100.04363319444 3.75594358 200.08726638889 14.973936498 300.13089958333 33.506081478 600.26179916667 130.1553394 900.39269875 279.3533269 Since the above is time after total sunset, you don't have to correct for the angular width of the sun. However, even total sunset is not good enough to black out an object though, due to light diffraction. Clearly not enough time, i.e. shortly after sunset, passed to rule out an airplane. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Sunset at my location in Honolulu that day was 5:59 PM, sighting was at 6:58 PM. I'll look for a star chart to get the sighting angle for the object. - R.
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
On Dec 29, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Rick Monteverde wrote: Horace – My sighting wasn’t just after sunset, it was just after nightfall - total darkness. There was just a vague hint of fading light on the horizon, but the sky surrounding the object, which was relatively low in the southwest, was already black. I did find something on the after-sunset atmospheric distortion – they say add 6 arc minutes to the apparent semidiameter of the sun. I’ll try to muddle through your figures in a little while. I sure appreciate the help, thanks. Yes, that accounts for distortion of the image. There is also atmospheric scatter involved, and that might make an object look orange or red. It makes snowy mountains here take on hot pastel colors - called Alpenglow. This time of year the sun sets almost due west there. If the object was ever in a direction approximately due north or south of you, i.e. on a line perpendicular to the sunset location, then the altitude h I provided fairly closely applies to the object for that time t in the table. If it was mainly east or west then another calculation is needed. I would say anything above 100,000 feet, or 18.9 miles, was probably not a military jet, and certainly not a passenger jet. That altitude h corresponds to about 22 minutes after surface darkness - to whatever degree such darkness needs to be defined. From experience there, I know it gets dark pretty fast in Hawaii after sunset - especially compared to here - where sunsets can take a very long time. 8^) If you observed the object an hour after sunset then I'd say it was well past the 22 minutes after darkness mark. A general compass direction thus may be sufficient information for a definitive answer. That far after sunset, an hour, taken even alone, is a pretty strong indication it was not an airplane. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Sounds like a Fastwalker. Terry On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: On Dec 29, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Rick Monteverde wrote: Horace – My sighting wasn’t just after sunset, it was just after nightfall - total darkness. There was just a vague hint of fading light on the horizon, but the sky surrounding the object, which was relatively low in the southwest, was already black. I did find something on the after-sunset atmospheric distortion – they say add 6 arc minutes to the apparent semidiameter of the sun. I’ll try to muddle through your figures in a little while. I sure appreciate the help, thanks. Yes, that accounts for distortion of the image. There is also atmospheric scatter involved, and that might make an object look orange or red. It makes snowy mountains here take on hot pastel colors - called Alpenglow. This time of year the sun sets almost due west there. If the object was ever in a direction approximately due north or south of you, i.e. on a line perpendicular to the sunset location, then the altitude h I provided fairly closely applies to the object for that time t in the table. If it was mainly east or west then another calculation is needed. I would say anything above 100,000 feet, or 18.9 miles, was probably not a military jet, and certainly not a passenger jet. That altitude h corresponds to about 22 minutes after surface darkness - to whatever degree such darkness needs to be defined. From experience there, I know it gets dark pretty fast in Hawaii after sunset - especially compared to here - where sunsets can take a very long time. 8^) If you observed the object an hour after sunset then I'd say it was well past the 22 minutes after darkness mark. A general compass direction thus may be sufficient information for a definitive answer. That far after sunset, an hour, taken even alone, is a pretty strong indication it was not an airplane. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
