Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Evening Peter, I'd like to add my couple of cents worth on the whole topic though in addition to yours. I support the use of HTML in e-mails and I fully support the benefits. (The fact people still use text only e-mail readers amazes me but thats a whole new discussion!) What irks me is when companies don't compile with the web-standards (Looking at Microsoft) so web-developers and other e-mail clients require specific fixes to display in the correct manner. This is still pre-levant as noted by Peter with the point that Microsoft Outlook uses Microsoft Word to basically create the e-mails. If you look at the source code of a Microsoft e-mail it is very poorly constructed. I'm not saying Apple is good but they are better. Due to the web-wars of the 90's this has become a big issue but is now petering down to a null point finally! Big topic. :) David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 12/10/2009, at 8:48 AM, Peter Hinchliffe wrote: On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven These requests always make me sigh. HTML email is probably one of the greatest crimes that Microsoft has perpetrated against the world of computing. As others in this thread have pointed out, the only ones who are guaranteed to see the email in the format in which is was originally written is the Sender! There is absolutely no way to control what email client the recipient is using. For example, one client of mine insisted on continuing to use Pine in a Telnet session to his mail server (Pine is a purely text-based email client, and is totally incapable of interpreting formatted email of any sort). Consequently, over 50% of the email he received was incomprehensible to him. As has been pointed out on this list countless times, the email format is pure text. That's all. This is the reason why pictures, sounds, movies, etc, have to be sent as attachments. They cannot be embedded into the message. Any embellishments such as HTML rely on the email recipient being able to handle them. Windows users have been duped into believing that HTML email is the norm. Unfortunately, the world of internet standards disagrees with them, but still companies such as Microsoft and Intellimail (gasp!) blunder on. One of the reasons that many Windows users get confused with this is that MS Outlook is usually set up to use Word as its default editor! No wonder confusion reigns supreme! Not even Apple is guiltless in this area. Windows switchers coming to Mail are often completely confused by having attachments such as PDFs and JPGs appearing to open within the body of the email. This is a trick by Apple (useful though it may be) to allow the recipient to view the contents of certain attachments without having to download them first. Nevertheless, they remain attachments. The addition of HTML templates in Leopard also hasn't really helped either. Just Apple saying If You Can't Beat 'em, Join 'em. If your friend really has to have rulers and bullet lists, point him in the direction of Thunderbird or Seamonkey, which do have this stuff built in. -- Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer Perth, Western Australia Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 064 948 Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to. -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
David Moyle moyla...@westnet.com.au wrote: I support the use of HTML in e-mails and I fully support the benefits. What benefits? (The fact people still use text only e-mail readers amazes me but thats a whole new discussion!) It's basic common sense. As well as being more accessible and less obnoxious for the recipient (unless you really like trying to read tiny fuschia Comic Sans), plain-text-only reading reduces people falling for phishing schemes, which is a very good argument for recommending it strongly to less-knowledgeable users, and washing your hands of the results should they choose to ignore it. Lara -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Hi Steven Why does your friend compose his stuff in an email program? The normal way i would have thought was to compose in a word processing program using all the formatting available there and then add it to the email as an attachment. Cheers John On 11/10/2009, at 5:29 AM, David Moyle wrote: Morning! That will be great if the bullet point issue is fixes! I'd be interested to hear why he does need a ruler, I'm sure there is one! Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 0:41, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: Good questions! The bullet point issue might be solved. When this friend of mine highlighted a list of points, and then followed Format Lists Insert Bulleted Lists, a bullet point list wasn't created. I'd always found bullet points in Mail to be not friendly to work with, so that didn't surprise me. However, I've just tried it myself and it worked fine. A bit of searching, and I see that Snow Leopard has tweaked something with Mail bullet points, and this friend of mine hasn't yet upgraded to SL. I have. I think that'll solve the problem. I've no idea why he needs a ruler. Probably something he's used to. He tells me Outlook has a ruler, and from a little searching it seems that Outlook does. If correct, then I guess there must be some uses for it? Cheers, Steven On 10/10/2009, at 7:28 PM, David Moyle wrote: Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
I haven't asked that question of him John. I've never had call to user a ruler in email myself, but each to their own I guess. However if Outlook has a ruler feature, there are presumably reasons for it. I've looked in Entourage and can't see a ruler feature. So back to the original question of whether there is Mac-compatible mail client which has a similar feature, or if not a plug-in which adds this functionality to Mail (and I'm guessing no to the latter). Cheers, Steven On 11/10/2009, at 1:09 PM, John Daniels wrote: Hi Steven Why does your friend compose his stuff in an email program? The normal way i would have thought was to compose in a word processing program using all the formatting available there and then add it to the email as an attachment. Cheers John On 11/10/2009, at 5:29 AM, David Moyle wrote: Morning! That will be great if the bullet point issue is fixes! I'd be interested to hear why he does need a ruler, I'm sure there is one! Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 0:41, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: Good questions! The bullet point issue might be solved. When this friend of mine highlighted a list of points, and then followed Format Lists Insert Bulleted Lists, a bullet point list wasn't created. I'd always found bullet points in Mail to be not friendly to work with, so that didn't surprise me. However, I've just tried it myself and it worked fine. A bit of searching, and I see that Snow Leopard has tweaked something with Mail bullet points, and this friend of mine hasn't yet upgraded to SL. I have. I think that'll solve the problem. I've no idea why he needs a ruler. Probably something he's used to. He tells me Outlook has a ruler, and from a little searching it seems that Outlook does. If correct, then I guess there must be some uses for it? Cheers, Steven On 10/10/2009, at 7:28 PM, David Moyle wrote: Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Afternoon, Don't want to sound like I'm harping on but I pose the question why the user requires a ruler if there is no function/point? If the user is using it to help layout an email unfortunately it won't make a difference to the end user. Maybe some education on email standards and that users won't see things the same things may help alleivate the issue? Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 17:35, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: I haven't asked that question of him John. I've never had call to user a ruler in email myself, but each to their own I guess. However if Outlook has a ruler feature, there are presumably reasons for it. I've looked in Entourage and can't see a ruler feature. So back to the original question of whether there is Mac-compatible mail client which has a similar feature, or if not a plug-in which adds this functionality to Mail (and I'm guessing no to the latter). Cheers, Steven On 11/10/2009, at 1:09 PM, John Daniels wrote: Hi Steven Why does your friend compose his stuff in an email program? The normal way i would have thought was to compose in a word processing program using all the formatting available there and then add it to the email as an attachment. Cheers John On 11/10/2009, at 5:29 AM, David Moyle wrote: Morning! That will be great if the bullet point issue is fixes! I'd be interested to hear why he does need a ruler, I'm sure there is one! Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 0:41, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: Good questions! The bullet point issue might be solved. When this friend of mine highlighted a list of points, and then followed Format Lists Insert Bulleted Lists, a bullet point list wasn't created. I'd always found bullet points in Mail to be not friendly to work with, so that didn't surprise me. However, I've just tried it myself and it worked fine. A bit of searching, and I see that Snow Leopard has tweaked something with Mail bullet points, and this friend of mine hasn't yet upgraded to SL. I have. I think that'll solve the problem. I've no idea why he needs a ruler. Probably something he's used to. He tells me Outlook has a ruler, and from a little searching it seems that Outlook does. If correct, then I guess there must be some uses for it? Cheers, Steven On 10/10/2009, at 7:28 PM, David Moyle wrote: Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Thanks David. Maybe a ruler makes him feel better? :-) I'll take your comments on board and have another chat with him. I can maybe show him a couple of sample outputs and demo no difference. Cheers, Steven On 11/10/2009, at 1:50 PM, David Moyle wrote: Afternoon, Don't want to sound like I'm harping on but I pose the question why the user requires a ruler if there is no function/point? If the user is using it to help layout an email unfortunately it won't make a difference to the end user. Maybe some education on email standards and that users won't see things the same things may help alleivate the issue? Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 17:35, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: I haven't asked that question of him John. I've never had call to user a ruler in email myself, but each to their own I guess. However if Outlook has a ruler feature, there are presumably reasons for it. I've looked in Entourage and can't see a ruler feature. So back to the original question of whether there is Mac- compatible mail client which has a similar feature, or if not a plug-in which adds this functionality to Mail (and I'm guessing no to the latter). Cheers, Steven On 11/10/2009, at 1:09 PM, John Daniels wrote: Hi Steven Why does your friend compose his stuff in an email program? The normal way i would have thought was to compose in a word processing program using all the formatting available there and then add it to the email as an attachment. Cheers John On 11/10/2009, at 5:29 AM, David Moyle wrote: Morning! That will be great if the bullet point issue is fixes! I'd be interested to hear why he does need a ruler, I'm sure there is one! Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 0:41, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: Good questions! The bullet point issue might be solved. When this friend of mine highlighted a list of points, and then followed Format Lists Insert Bulleted Lists, a bullet point list wasn't created. I'd always found bullet points in Mail to be not friendly to work with, so that didn't surprise me. However, I've just tried it myself and it worked fine. A bit of searching, and I see that Snow Leopard has tweaked something with Mail bullet points, and this friend of mine hasn't yet upgraded to SL. I have. I think that'll solve the problem. I've no idea why he needs a ruler. Probably something he's used to. He tells me Outlook has a ruler, and from a little searching it seems that Outlook does. If correct, then I guess there must be some uses for it? Cheers, Steven On 10/10/2009, at 7:28 PM, David Moyle wrote: Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). If he's doing it with HTML, there is absolutely no way he can ever ensure that the reader will see it as a bulleted list. Return-Asterisk will, however, achieve his goal simply and effectively. Lara -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven These requests always make me sigh. HTML email is probably one of the greatest crimes that Microsoft has perpetrated against the world of computing. As others in this thread have pointed out, the only ones who are guaranteed to see the email in the format in which is was originally written is the Sender! There is absolutely no way to control what email client the recipient is using. For example, one client of mine insisted on continuing to use Pine in a Telnet session to his mail server (Pine is a purely text-based email client, and is totally incapable of interpreting formatted email of any sort). Consequently, over 50% of the email he received was incomprehensible to him. As has been pointed out on this list countless times, the email format is pure text. That's all. This is the reason why pictures, sounds, movies, etc, have to be sent as attachments. They cannot be embedded into the message. Any embellishments such as HTML rely on the email recipient being able to handle them. Windows users have been duped into believing that HTML email is the norm. Unfortunately, the world of internet standards disagrees with them, but still companies such as Microsoft and Intellimail (gasp!) blunder on. One of the reasons that many Windows users get confused with this is that MS Outlook is usually set up to use Word as its default editor! No wonder confusion reigns supreme! Not even Apple is guiltless in this area. Windows switchers coming to Mail are often completely confused by having attachments such as PDFs and JPGs appearing to open within the body of the email. This is a trick by Apple (useful though it may be) to allow the recipient to view the contents of certain attachments without having to download them first. Nevertheless, they remain attachments. The addition of HTML templates in Leopard also hasn't really helped either. Just Apple saying If You Can't Beat 'em, Join 'em. If your friend really has to have rulers and bullet lists, point him in the direction of Thunderbird or Seamonkey, which do have this stuff built in. -- Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer Perth, Western Australia Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 064 948 Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to. -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Good questions! The bullet point issue might be solved. When this friend of mine highlighted a list of points, and then followed Format Lists Insert Bulleted Lists, a bullet point list wasn't created. I'd always found bullet points in Mail to be not friendly to work with, so that didn't surprise me. However, I've just tried it myself and it worked fine. A bit of searching, and I see that Snow Leopard has tweaked something with Mail bullet points, and this friend of mine hasn't yet upgraded to SL. I have. I think that'll solve the problem. I've no idea why he needs a ruler. Probably something he's used to. He tells me Outlook has a ruler, and from a little searching it seems that Outlook does. If correct, then I guess there must be some uses for it? Cheers, Steven On 10/10/2009, at 7:28 PM, David Moyle wrote: Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
Re: Mail - bullet points and ruler
Morning! That will be great if the bullet point issue is fixes! I'd be interested to hear why he does need a ruler, I'm sure there is one! Cheers, David On 11/10/2009, at 0:41, Steven Knowles emai...@knowles.net.au wrote: Good questions! The bullet point issue might be solved. When this friend of mine highlighted a list of points, and then followed Format Lists Insert Bulleted Lists, a bullet point list wasn't created. I'd always found bullet points in Mail to be not friendly to work with, so that didn't surprise me. However, I've just tried it myself and it worked fine. A bit of searching, and I see that Snow Leopard has tweaked something with Mail bullet points, and this friend of mine hasn't yet upgraded to SL. I have. I think that'll solve the problem. I've no idea why he needs a ruler. Probably something he's used to. He tells me Outlook has a ruler, and from a little searching it seems that Outlook does. If correct, then I guess there must be some uses for it? Cheers, Steven On 10/10/2009, at 7:28 PM, David Moyle wrote: Evening. :) Could you clarify what the bullet point issue is? Ignore maybe my ignorance, but why do you require a ruler to create an e-mail message? Since it is a dynamic layout system it will 90% of the time look different on other computers anyway? Cheers, David Moyle Systems Technician Apple, Windows, Cisco -- Western Australia Mb: 0427 888 257 On 10/10/2009, at 11:15 PM, Steven Knowles wrote: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to stay with Apple's Mail as a mail client, however there are two problems with Mail in his eyes. One is bullet points which don't seem to appear as bullet points at the recipient end (I've experienced that as well). The other is the absence of a ruler when composing messages, which, as an ex Windows user, he got used to in Outlook. Does anyone know of any plugins which enhance Mail in this regard? Or is there an alternative mail application which brings both of these features more in line with Outlook on Windows. There's Entourage of course, and he does have Entourage installed and will have a look at it, but I'd like to let him know of any other options. Cheers, Steven -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au
