RE: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Oldham, Toby]

Sorry Antony, I when I say hidden, I mean you've got a wacky clipping mask
issue. :)

> --
> From: Antony N. Lord
> Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 9:56 PM
> To:   WAMUG Mailing List
> Subject:      Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...
> 
> >the export preset "press" uses acrobat 4 format. change this to 
> >version 5 (or later, if you are using CS i guess). v5 handles 
> >transparency much better methinks
> 
> Have tried this without luck.
> 
> Went to the printers (OfficeWorks are closest to me and are fine for 
> a few A4 / A3 copies rather than giant runs) with at least 4 
> different versions of the art : different acrobat formats, 
> transparency settings, recreated the original logo for importing - 
> all with the same effect...
> 
> -- 
> ==
> ==   =
> =   Antony N. Lord   = http://antonylord.com =
> =   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   = Perth, Western Australia  =
> ==   =
> ==
> 
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>
> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>
> Unsubscribe - <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
> 
> 

RE: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Oldham, Toby]

Antony, I can see what's causing some of your printing issues - reply to me
off list and we'll fix it. You've got a wacky path hidden but printing. Try
opening the pdf file in Illustrator, then peform a select all and you can
see it pretty clearly. :)

Cheers,
Tobes.

> --
> From: Antony N. Lord
> Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 9:56 PM
> To:   WAMUG Mailing List
> Subject:      Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...
> 
> >  > To work around I open and rasterize it in Photoshop and save it as a
> >>  single layer (transparent background) in PDF format.
> >
> >Yikes.
> 
> Sorry, that should be a PSD (Photoshop) file hence the transparency.
> 
> A typical culprit can be seen here :
> 
> <http://antonylord.dyndns.org/GeneralA3.pdf>
> 
> Views fine, prints with a strange punch out effect over the Sapphire 
> lettering / logo at the top...
> 
> -- 
> ==
> ==   =
> =   Antony N. Lord   = http://antonylord.com =
> =   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   = Perth, Western Australia  =
> ==   =
> ==
> 
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>
> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>
> Unsubscribe - <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
> 
> 

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[James Devenish]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 09:56:35PM +0800, Antony N. Lord wrote:
> 
> 
> Views fine,

Actually, there's definitely something fishy with that logo. Is it
possible for you to make the logo (you say it was given to you as EPS?)
available separately? Perhaps the artist tried to adjust the bounding
box of the EPS by adding a filled white box with 100% transparency
(ick ick!).

> prints with a strange punch out effect over the Sapphire lettering /
> logo at the top...

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Mark Scholmann]

Sounds like you better 'sell' the 'effect' to the client real quick!!  :-)

Antony : ..."yeah, but seriously... this is the final, and the lettering,
hmm, I just thought it matched the background better... ?"
Client :  "ok... yes, I can see what you're saying now... great!"

Good luck,

Mark S




- Original Message -
From: "Antony N. Lord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WAMUG Mailing List" 
Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 21:56
Subject: Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...


> >the export preset "press" uses acrobat 4 format. change this to
> >version 5 (or later, if you are using CS i guess). v5 handles
> >transparency much better methinks
>
> Have tried this without luck.
>
> Went to the printers (OfficeWorks are closest to me and are fine for
> a few A4 / A3 copies rather than giant runs) with at least 4
> different versions of the art : different acrobat formats,
> transparency settings, recreated the original logo for importing -
> all with the same effect...
>
> --
> ==
> ==   =
> =   Antony N. Lord   = http://antonylord.com =
> =   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   = Perth, Western Australia  =
> ==   =
> ==
>
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>
> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>
> Unsubscribe - <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
>

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Antony N. Lord]

the export preset "press" uses acrobat 4 format. change this to 
version 5 (or later, if you are using CS i guess). v5 handles 
transparency much better methinks


Have tried this without luck.

Went to the printers (OfficeWorks are closest to me and are fine for 
a few A4 / A3 copies rather than giant runs) with at least 4 
different versions of the art : different acrobat formats, 
transparency settings, recreated the original logo for importing - 
all with the same effect...


--
==
==   =
=   Antony N. Lord   = http://antonylord.com =
=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   = Perth, Western Australia  =
==   =
==

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Antony N. Lord]

P.S. Had an amazing issue with a powerpoint presentation that was 362kb in
it's native format, 168meg in it's Apple generated PDF format, then 1meg
after Acrobat's 'reduce file size' command. Weird.


Nope - I've seen that several times too.

A 13 page MS Word (X) document with colour images.

Apple PDF 126Mb
Adobe Reduced File Size 1.2Mb

No explanation I'm affraid.

Hence why I'm moved to "all Adobe" for my work but it looks like I'm 
not out of the woods yet!


Cheers, Antony.
--
==
==   =
=   Antony N. Lord   = http://antonylord.com =
=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   = Perth, Western Australia  =
==   =
==

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Antony N. Lord]

 > To work around I open and rasterize it in Photoshop and save it as a

 single layer (transparent background) in PDF format.


Yikes.


Sorry, that should be a PSD (Photoshop) file hence the transparency.

A typical culprit can be seen here :



Views fine, prints with a strange punch out effect over the Sapphire 
lettering / logo at the top...


--
==
==   =
=   Antony N. Lord   = http://antonylord.com =
=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   = Perth, Western Australia  =
==   =
==

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Greg Hosking]

the export preset "press" uses acrobat 4 format. change this to version 
5 (or later, if you are using CS i guess). v5 handles transparency much 
better methinks

g

On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 09:16 PM, Darren Kam wrote:


I have one fairly major problem :

* Some PDFs display correctly but don't print "as they look"


Yep. I experience this all the time - often it happens when text is 
overlaid on a background fill. The solution is to ensure that all 
fonts are converted to outlines before exporting to PDF. Also, 
transparency is not supported fully, so sometimes the printer will 
interpret it correctly, but most of the time it won't. Such is the 
problem of PDF technology moving too fast - "standards" are broken. :)


Feel free to forward me an example of the PDF that you're talking 
about - it may also just be a printer limitation.


Cheers,
Darren.

-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
Archives - 
Guidelines - 
Unsubscribe - 

WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro

RE: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Oldham, Toby]

Hi Antony,

Have you tried re-saving the file as an Illustrator CS eps after ungrouping
any paths you can find in the file? The problem sounds a little like the
original eps file has it's own grouping/cropping/masking tech separate to
Illustrators, which can cause print problems (Used to get it with Freehand
eps files all the time, Although Illustrator CS seems to hande them better
IMHO).

Mark's right, InDesign CS can now take Illustrator and Photoshop files in
their native format, but there are still occasional issues when exporting to
PDF (among other thing's, Illustrator's font engine doesn't always play nice
with InDesigns') - as mentioned earlier, the PDF file generated features
transparency that's a little too advanced for most RIPs.

You can try running it through Acrobat professional PDF pre-flighting tool,
but you're probably better off sticking with eps files, and keeping it
vector based if possible.

If you haven't been able to fix it yet mail me a copy and I'll have a
squizz; might be able to assist.

Cheers,
Tobes.

P.S. Had an amazing issue with a powerpoint presentation that was 362kb in
it's native format, 168meg in it's Apple generated PDF format, then 1meg
after Acrobat's 'reduce file size' command. Weird.



> --
> From: Mark Scholmann
> Sent:         Thursday, 6 May 2004 11:20 AM
> To:   WAMUG Mailing List
> Subject:  Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...
> 
> I am not an InDesign expert (as only used once), but I believe you should
> be able open the Illustrator file directly in InDesign (native, don't PDF
> it across??).
> 
> As a work around, you should be able to open the Illustrator native file
> in
> Photoshop (don't PDF it) and set the incoming opening pixel size to a
> suitable DPI for output and then save as a PSD photoshop image.  It will
> retain the transparency and can then be opened into InDesign (as PSD, not
> PDF) for positioning.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Mark Scholmann
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -
> From: "Denise Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WAMUG Mailing List" 
> Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 11:02
> Subject: Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...
> 
> 
> > on 5/5/04 7:55 PM, Antony N. Lord at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > OK, I bit the bullet and bought the Adobe Design CS Premium suite to
> > > bring all my graphic design work up a notch.
> > >
> > > Almost all the printing companies I work with required PDF format
> > > files for output.
> > >
> > > Most of my layout work (posters and business cards) I do in InDesign
> > > an use the "Press" PDF export preset.
> > >
> > > I have one fairly major problem :
> > >
> > > * Some PDFs display correctly but don't print "as they look"
> > >
> > > Example
> > >
> > > I have been supplied with a logo in EPS format. Its white lettering
> > > on what appears to be a transparent background (when viewed in
> > > Illustrator).
> > >
> > > I don't seem to be able to get it to appear / behave as white
> > > lettering on a transparent background when I "place" it in InDesign.
> > >
> > > To work around I open and rasterize it in Photoshop and save it as a
> > > single layer (transparent background) in PDF format.
> > >
> > > It places in InDesign and displays properly.
> > >
> > > However when I print I get a variety of effects - mostly cutouts (box
> > > shape around the lettering) or "burn throughs".
> > >
> > > I suspect something to do with transparency settings?
> > >
> > > I've trawled the help files (how I miss a big set of "dead tree"
> > > manuals) and googled but can't seem to work it out.
> > >
> > > Any design professionals out there with any ideas? I'd be happy to
> > > forward an example "culprit" PDF.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Antony.
> >
> > Hi Antony,
> > Was very interested to read your message & the subsequent suggestions
> from
> > James & Darren. I work with Quark & also send the occasional file as a
> PDF
> > to printers but actually prefer to burn to CD and save as EPS or native
> > Quark & post to printer. Not a good solution but safer. I too don't
> trust
> > PDF's.
> > Regarding the background. Seems to me like you need to convert the
> lettering
> > to a clipping path (in Photoshop). This is the only way to remove those
>

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Mark Scholmann]

I am not an InDesign expert (as only used once), but I believe you should
be able open the Illustrator file directly in InDesign (native, don't PDF
it across??).

As a work around, you should be able to open the Illustrator native file in
Photoshop (don't PDF it) and set the incoming opening pixel size to a
suitable DPI for output and then save as a PSD photoshop image.  It will
retain the transparency and can then be opened into InDesign (as PSD, not
PDF) for positioning.

Good luck,

Mark Scholmann




- Original Message -
From: "Denise Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WAMUG Mailing List" 
Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 11:02
Subject: Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...


> on 5/5/04 7:55 PM, Antony N. Lord at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > OK, I bit the bullet and bought the Adobe Design CS Premium suite to
> > bring all my graphic design work up a notch.
> >
> > Almost all the printing companies I work with required PDF format
> > files for output.
> >
> > Most of my layout work (posters and business cards) I do in InDesign
> > an use the "Press" PDF export preset.
> >
> > I have one fairly major problem :
> >
> > * Some PDFs display correctly but don't print "as they look"
> >
> > Example
> >
> > I have been supplied with a logo in EPS format. Its white lettering
> > on what appears to be a transparent background (when viewed in
> > Illustrator).
> >
> > I don't seem to be able to get it to appear / behave as white
> > lettering on a transparent background when I "place" it in InDesign.
> >
> > To work around I open and rasterize it in Photoshop and save it as a
> > single layer (transparent background) in PDF format.
> >
> > It places in InDesign and displays properly.
> >
> > However when I print I get a variety of effects - mostly cutouts (box
> > shape around the lettering) or "burn throughs".
> >
> > I suspect something to do with transparency settings?
> >
> > I've trawled the help files (how I miss a big set of "dead tree"
> > manuals) and googled but can't seem to work it out.
> >
> > Any design professionals out there with any ideas? I'd be happy to
> > forward an example "culprit" PDF.
> >
> > Cheers, Antony.
>
> Hi Antony,
> Was very interested to read your message & the subsequent suggestions
from
> James & Darren. I work with Quark & also send the occasional file as a
PDF
> to printers but actually prefer to burn to CD and save as EPS or native
> Quark & post to printer. Not a good solution but safer. I too don't trust
> PDF's.
> Regarding the background. Seems to me like you need to convert the
lettering
> to a clipping path (in Photoshop). This is the only way to remove those
> white backgrounds that come into all PSD files saved for export. Go to
Help
> in PSD and type in Clipping Path or go to:
> file:///HARD%20DRIVE/Graphics/Adobe%20Photoshop%207/Help/help.html
> Could you send me the file?
> Good luck & I'll be interested to see how you get on.
>
> Denise Williams-Photographer
> Ph/fax 08- 9447 3468
> Mob 0417 184592
>
>
>
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>
> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>
> Unsubscribe - <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
>

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Denise Williams]

on 5/5/04 7:55 PM, Antony N. Lord at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> OK, I bit the bullet and bought the Adobe Design CS Premium suite to
> bring all my graphic design work up a notch.
> 
> Almost all the printing companies I work with required PDF format
> files for output.
> 
> Most of my layout work (posters and business cards) I do in InDesign
> an use the "Press" PDF export preset.
> 
> I have one fairly major problem :
> 
> * Some PDFs display correctly but don't print "as they look"
> 
> Example
> 
> I have been supplied with a logo in EPS format. Its white lettering
> on what appears to be a transparent background (when viewed in
> Illustrator).
> 
> I don't seem to be able to get it to appear / behave as white
> lettering on a transparent background when I "place" it in InDesign.
> 
> To work around I open and rasterize it in Photoshop and save it as a
> single layer (transparent background) in PDF format.
> 
> It places in InDesign and displays properly.
> 
> However when I print I get a variety of effects - mostly cutouts (box
> shape around the lettering) or "burn throughs".
> 
> I suspect something to do with transparency settings?
> 
> I've trawled the help files (how I miss a big set of "dead tree"
> manuals) and googled but can't seem to work it out.
> 
> Any design professionals out there with any ideas? I'd be happy to
> forward an example "culprit" PDF.
> 
> Cheers, Antony.

Hi Antony,
Was very interested to read your message & the subsequent suggestions from
James & Darren. I work with Quark & also send the occasional file as a PDF
to printers but actually prefer to burn to CD and save as EPS or native
Quark & post to printer. Not a good solution but safer. I too don't trust
PDF's.
Regarding the background. Seems to me like you need to convert the lettering
to a clipping path (in Photoshop). This is the only way to remove those
white backgrounds that come into all PSD files saved for export. Go to Help
in PSD and type in Clipping Path or go to:
file:///HARD%20DRIVE/Graphics/Adobe%20Photoshop%207/Help/help.html
Could you send me the file?
Good luck & I'll be interested to see how you get on.

Denise Williams-Photographer
Ph/fax 08- 9447 3468
Mob 0417 184592 

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[Darren Kam]

I have one fairly major problem :

* Some PDFs display correctly but don't print "as they look"


Yep. I experience this all the time - often it happens when text is 
overlaid on a background fill. The solution is to ensure that all 
fonts are converted to outlines before exporting to PDF. Also, 
transparency is not supported fully, so sometimes the printer will 
interpret it correctly, but most of the time it won't. Such is the 
problem of PDF technology moving too fast - "standards" are broken. :)


Feel free to forward me an example of the PDF that you're talking 
about - it may also just be a printer limitation.


Cheers,
Darren.

Re: One for the DTP / Adobe experts...

[James Devenish]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
on Wed, May 05, 2004 at 07:55:20PM +0800, Antony N. Lord wrote:
> OK, I bit the bullet and bought the Adobe Design CS Premium suite to
> bring all my graphic design work up a notch.

Does that include Distiller and a decent version of Acrobat (not
"Standard" or other such muck)?

> Most of my layout work (posters and business cards) I do in InDesign
> an use the "Press" PDF export preset.

I like Export, too. BUT I have to reluctantly admit that it doesn't
always seem to work. On the other hand, I also have a problem where
Distiller produces no output. It goes through the motions but simply
doesn't write its output.

> I have been supplied with a logo in EPS format. [It's] white lettering
> on what appears to be a transparent background (when viewed in
> Illustrator).

Sure: filled white letters with nothing behind them?

> I don't seem to be able to get it to appear / behave as white 
> lettering on a transparent background when I "place" it in InDesign.

What does it look like on screen? Note: InDesign has different options
for display quality, so if you are using the worst (quickest) display,
it might give you a "misleading" appearance on screen. (Nevertheless,
I realise that doesn't explain why it wouldn't behave correctly when
printed.)

> To work around I open and rasterize it in Photoshop and save it as a 
> single layer (transparent background) in PDF format.

Yikes.

> I'd be happy to forward an example "culprit" PDF.

Someone else might help you tonight, but feel free to forward a
copy to my address directly and I'll have a look at it tomorrow.