[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
In places where I came from, Wall Street, CVS/pharmacy, GE, GM, and rest of 1000 big plus many tens of thousands smaller with exception of majority of ISPs and some posters on this list, the deployment platform of choice is Java based. In critical applications almost without exceptions the Java is in the core of application. I converted numerous applications from ASP to Java and NEVER in other direction. I don't know whom you are kidding. It takes a serious flaw in technical background or in judgment to say what you are saying. I feel really sorry for you people. BTW, I can produce Web Services in Java without ANY hand written wrapper vs. MS proudly announced 20+ lines of code in .NET for SOAP envelope. Do you want to know how? Peter. Cheryl D. Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why I believe you are correct that Sun is the one who stopped MS from including Java in the XP release Java isn't quite as dead as you think. If I recall correctly ColdFusion MX is now written in Java and there are quite a few J2EE is the foundation of many web services besides news tickers. Personally I prefer .NET but that's because I have been using asp for awhile and it the learning curve isn't that steep for me. It also is getting to be platform independent since Apache.NET is available (in beta I still last time I heard but getting there) and so is a version to run on FreeBSD and the next release of PHP is supposed to support .NET as well. Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Ross Clutterbuck Hate to say it but the M$ puppet Mr. Zuck has a point...Java hasn't taken off because it's a bit pants really, at lest from my perspective and experience... Java on the web is nothing more than chat rooms and news tickers, and any Windows-based software development is done in VB or C++ On top of that, wasn't it Sun who blocked M$ from getting the latest version of Java to put in the VM? I think that this is nothing more than a battle of pride for Sun - who really uses Java any more? MOU The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% __ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Peter: Whoa there!! Never meant to get anybody's back up, it's just that in my experience I've never seen or needed to touch Java and as a result never bothered to dig too deep. Now, as I don't work with, for in near Wall Street and the other examples you give, I was not aware of their technical requirements or environment. I'd like to put that down to lack of global experience and reading, not a flaw in my ability thank you... MOU __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Ross, No fault on your part, Peter only pops up once or twice a month to start flame wars and brag profusely about skills we mortals can't conceive... flame type=non-contributor bashing You know, I have never seen a URL in one of his sigs or any other supporting evidence that he actually does anything but spout acronyms and buzz words, most often with poor grammar. If I am wrong on this, I will happily eat my hat. Otherwise, I would prefer to hear a lot less from Mr. Kinev unless he decides to be helpful and contribute to this community. /flame /me feels better having said that Apologies, Stephen Caudill http://neohero.municode.com Peter: Whoa there!! Never meant to get anybody's back up, it's just that in my experience I've never seen or needed to touch Java and as a result never bothered to dig too deep. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Mark, Were they looking for 'classic' asp or asp.net? Both can run on Apache/*nix boxes. For 'classic' look at ChiliSoft (oops just went to get a url and discovered that Sun has purchased it and it is now call Sun ONE Active Server Pages but is still found at www.chilisoft.com}. Another option for classic asp is ASP-Linux at http://www.asp-linux.com For asp.net see the Mono Project at http://www.go-mono.com/ For articles on .NET and Linux (or even Ja.NET to use Enterprise Java Beans in .NET apps) see http://www.dotnet.za.net/viewcategory.asp?catid=5 Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mark Groen I already have had an inquiry about running ASP on our Apache/*nix boxes a couple weeks ago, thought it was very strange until I read this. Txs for the heads up. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Peter, I don't think anyone has disputed that in the large mainframe corporate world Java is used extensively. That's the place it has found a home. Most of the people on this list however don't work in that world or if they do they work in a limited section of it related to the internet. There the strengths of Java work against it. For the internet you don't generally need industrial strength or weight of Java. While Java based web services are going strong I doubt that many on this list use web services at all much less develop web services themselves. Vbscript and php are not designed to handle the same type of projects/programs for which Java is designed. They were created primarily for use on the web and as such more suited for the internet that true Java apps. I think SUN has realized this as much as anyone with the creation of jsp pages. The learning curve for web scripting languages is considerably less since neither is a true object oriented language such as Java. I found it offensive to told It takes a serious flaw in technical background or in judgment to say what you are saying. because I don't choose to develop in Java. And no, I don't want to know how. I made my choice of technologies to support based on the needs of my clients. Okay they aren't CVS Pharmacy, Wall Street or other huge enterprise company but smaller clients with limited means who don't need the same sort of website as Bank One or GM (which uses Flash for its website anyway). This list is about web design/development not business application development and that is what I addressed in responding to MOU's question about whether Java was 'dead' as a web development platform. Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Peter Kinev In places where I came from, Wall Street, CVS/pharmacy, GE, GM, and rest of 1000 big plus many tens of thousands smaller with exception of majority of ISPs and some posters on this list, the deployment platform of choice is Java based. In critical applications almost without exceptions the Java is in the core of application. I converted numerous applications from ASP to Java and NEVER in other direction. I don't know whom you are kidding. It takes a serious flaw in technical background or in judgment to say what you are saying. I feel really sorry for you people. BTW, I can produce Web Services in Java without ANY hand written wrapper vs. MS proudly announced 20+ lines of code in .NET for SOAP envelope. Do you want to know how? Peter. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Well, most of his points are valid...just his method of delivery is a bit off. I noticed a couple of people on this list talking about how Java was dead, or how it was useless. Those people are either mis-informed, or M$ sheep. While I will agree that Java has no place on HTLM pages (to make snazzy (is that a word) menus, or fancy slide shows for images), Java is far from dead. I think that most of the people on this list just never really work with middle tier or back end applications to actually experience the power of Java. This thread could go on and on with people flaming about how Java is better than .NET, or how .NET is better than Java (I've never used .NET, so I can't make an educated comparrison), but where would that get us? Water off a ducks back. Stephen Caudill wrote: Ross, No fault on your part, Peter only pops up once or twice a month to start flame wars and brag profusely about skills we mortals can't conceive... flame type=non-contributor bashing You know, I have never seen a URL in one of his sigs or any other supporting evidence that he actually does anything but spout acronyms and buzz words, most often with poor grammar. If I am wrong on this, I will happily eat my hat. Otherwise, I would prefer to hear a lot less from Mr. Kinev unless he decides to be helpful and contribute to this community. /flame /me feels better having said that Apologies, Stephen Caudill http://neohero.municode.com Peter: Whoa there!! Never meant to get anybody's back up, it's just that in my experience I've never seen or needed to touch Java and as a result never bothered to dig too deep. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Java seems dead in the water as far as web (it's an overkill) and
application (it's too slow) are concerned. However, should expect Java
applications and games on mobile phones to do rather well.
-Original Message-
From: John Nichel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 27 December 2002 16:56
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
Well, most of his points are valid...just his method of delivery is a
bit off. I noticed a couple of people on this list talking about how
Java was dead, or how it was useless. Those people are either
mis-informed, or M$ sheep. While I will agree that Java has
no place on
HTLM pages (to make snazzy (is that a word) menus, or fancy
slide shows
for images), Java is far from dead. I think that most of the
people on
this list just never really work with middle tier or back end
applications to actually experience the power of Java.
This thread could go on and on with people flaming about how Java is
better than .NET, or how .NET is better than Java (I've never
used .NET,
so I can't make an educated comparrison), but where would
that get us?
Water off a ducks back.
Stephen Caudill wrote:
Ross,
No fault on your part, Peter only pops up once or twice a
month to
start flame wars and brag profusely about skills we mortals
can't conceive...
flame type=non-contributor bashing
You know, I have never seen a URL in one of his sigs or any other
supporting evidence that he actually does anything but
spout acronyms
and buzz words, most often with poor grammar. If I am
wrong on this,
I will happily eat my hat. Otherwise, I would prefer to hear a lot
less from Mr. Kinev unless he decides to be helpful and
contribute to
this community. /flame
/me feels better having said that
Apologies,
Stephen Caudill
http://neohero.municode.com
Peter:
Whoa there!!
Never meant to get anybody's back up, it's just that in my
experience I've
never seen or needed to touch Java and as a result never
bothered to dig too
deep.
. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM .
To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send Your Posts
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version:
http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub
http://www.wdvl.com ___
You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To
unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
--
By-Tor.com
It's all about the Rush
http://www.by-tor.com
. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM .
To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send Your Posts
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version:
http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub
http://www.wdvl.com ___
You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to
%%email.unsub%%
The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM
To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version:
http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub
http://www.wdvl.com ___
You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: Sun Gets Injunction in Microsoft Case
I use Java, primarily for graphics though, don't know if that's good or bad. About two years ago, Sun's statements predicted that JSP would become more useful than using CGI/PERL. I like it better than C, C++. Java works just as well, but much easier to work with. Jan JDVisions Why I believe you are correct that Sun is the one who stopped MS from including Java in the XP release Java isn't quite as dead as you think. If I recall correctly ColdFusion MX is now written in Java and there are quite a few J2EE is the foundation of many web services besides news tickers. Personally I prefer .NET but that's because I have been using asp for awhile and it the learning curve isn't that steep for me. It also is getting to be platform independent since Apache.NET is available (in beta I still last time I heard but getting there) and so is a version to run on FreeBSD and the next release of PHP is supposed to support .NET as well. Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] To display validation or not to display validation
I have been coding valid web pages for around a year now and typically display links (or the wonderful w3c graphics ;) to the validator on my personal sites, but am hesitant to do so on business sites. Currently, I am working on a site that has valid xhtml strict and valid css and I would like to display a link to the validator (there is a certain amount of back-patting going on here, as this is the first table-less commercial site I have done with full aural features and WAI compliance) but I am not sure if this is appropriate. So... What I was wondering was if any of you had done this. If you have, how did the client feel about it? Did you pitch it to them, or just put it up there and let them ask questions later? Or did they see the intrinsic merit in this? Responses from any and all are appreciated. Thanks, Stephen Caudill http://neohero.municode.com The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: To display validation or not to display validation
david, what a wonderful summary very clearly explained rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: To display validation or not to display validation
Personally I don't think the image/link for validation belongs on a commercial site. If you want to 'brag' about it put someplace like the accessibility policy. Include that it is Section 509 and/or WAG validated as well which is more important to clients, especially those that deal with government agencies. Otherwise I don't see the point. I've never met a client who really cared whether the code validated or not as long as it works. Almost everything I do validates against doctype and the appropriate css level. The biggest reason I can't claim everything validates is that I have some sites that the client's needs dictate that it look/function the same in NN 4.x so I have to use some invalid markup such as 'margin-height' to achieve that goal. My standard contract calls for a link somewhere on the site identifying our company as site designer but if the client prefers we don't insist. I would never put our name on the site without a client's permission. By all means 'pat' yourself on the back for going with tableless designs and valid markup but do so on your site either in your 'about us', portfolio or where ever else it seems appropriate. Brag to this list and/or any others you maybe involved with (and ask for site checks to make sure it doesn't fall apart in some OS/browser combination. Especially from those on platforms different from what you are using. That's how I found out that one of my pages which looked great in IE 6, NN 6.2, Mozilla, Opera 5 6 on the PC and IE 5.2, Mozilla and Netscape on the Mac broke in IE 5 for the PC something I no longer have access to since my last pc running it died. Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] Re: To display validation or not to display validation
Oops, I meant Section 508 or whatever is its accessibility equivalent if you are outside the U.S. Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Cheryl D. Wise Personally I don't think the image/link for validation belongs on a commercial site. If you want to 'brag' about it put someplace like the accessibility policy. Include that it is Section 509 and/or WAG validated as well which is more important to clients, especially those that deal with government agencies. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
