[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
I wrote, previously: FT While poking around, I found this page: FT http://kspope.com/assistech/index.php. FT After poking through our website, I'm really wondering if it's FT possible to have a visually appealing website (i.e. at least a few FT graphics) and an easy-to-navigate aural-only site at the same time. Abigail commented: Actually, Tim, I think that the site you found is an excellent example of a visually appealing plus easy to navigate site. I think it's a great model to start with. I reply: I think so too, in IE. While it doesn't break in NN4.7x, it looks rather bad...bad enough that if I were to duplicate the effort with our site, it would be unacceptable to the powers-that-be. Abigail further commented: Can you clarify what some of your major problems are, or post a link to whatever page is giving you headaches? I reply thusly: I think my biggest problem is that our largest client uses NN4.7 as their base browser, so I must support it. Furthermore, my requirements are that the site appear the same in both IE and NN4.7. Since NN4.7 doesn't do CSS mouseovers well (that I've discovered, anyway), I end up downloading GIFs for the left menu - lots of them. I don't like doing it but it's the only way I've found to force consistent look between NN4.7 and IE. My log files are full of GIF requests. :-) I don't really have a headache yet...I just haven't started looking at my site's pages deeply enough to start working on this aspect of things. I have a feeling that it's going to be messy. I've put in alt tags for all the menu images (I wasn't aware that I could get away with alt=; I may have to play with that some), but am not really sure where to go from there. www.foulston.com I imagine it'll take a bit of redesign. Tim ___ Tim Furry Web Developer Foulston Siefkin LLP The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
-Original Message- From: sherry young I'm working on the district website, after a prolonged rest period. One nagging question I'd love an answer to is: Why don't my alt tags all show up on the page? If/when you go to the index page: http://www.merrimackccd.org I see ALT tag pop-ups on every image there except the boarders. Where do you want to see them and you're not? Hugh The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
sherry young [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: One nagging question I'd love an answer to is: Why don't my alt tags all show up on the page? If/when you go to the index page: http://www.merrimackccd.org the alt tags for the rectangular buttons at the top, labeled town officials and professionals (and probably several other tags but I'm not quick enough to catch them before they load) do not appear... = Hmmm, I'm not sure what trouble you're experiencing. I looked at your site in IE5.5 and Netscape 4.7. All the alt tags show up when I mouse over the images. If you want to see them while the page is loading, and there not there, I'm sorry, from my work connection the page loads too fast to see any alt tags. = the educator image is called Image191 on Line 108. I don't know if that's a JS thing or not, but it does not look consistent with the rest of the code and consistency is, I've decided, my dearest friend in web development. == Sherry, I'm not sure what you're seeing here either. If you right-click an image in Internet Explorer you'll get a pop-up menu. At the bottom of the menu you can choose properties. That will give you the name of the image plus some other info. In Netscape, right-click the image and choose view info. This will give you a list of every image on your page. If you click on one of the images in the list Netscape will show you the image and give you more info about it. == HTH Perry Gerenday www.klugelab.com www.webinitiative.net The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
I looked at your site and all the alt tags are showing up, except for your spacer images. You should specify an alt for those to (the name attribute doesn't cover it.) A shot in the dark about why they don't show up on your machine. Do you maybe have a previous version cached? Try reloading to see if it helps. Isn't bobby the accessibility validator? You won't even make it past the W3C validator until you get rid of your *margin specs (move to style sheet) and add a DOCTYPE declaration. Not that you asked, but in general, the page looks good. And thanks for the ONTOPIC! Between virus info, Home Networking, Win XP, etc ad nausem, I had figured this list was becoming very unsubscribe-able. J.R. -Original Message- From: sherry young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [wdvltalk] Alt tag question Wow, I'm actually asking a question. On topic, even. I'm working on the district website, after a prolonged rest period. One nagging question I'd love an answer to is: Why don't my alt tags all show up on the page? If/when you go to the index page: http://www.merrimackccd.org the alt tags for the rectangular buttons at the top, labeled town officials and professionals (and probably several other tags but I'm not quick enough to catch them before they load) do not appear, despite the fact they certainly have been tapped into my DW and seem to appear in the HTML. I did notice, when I ducked under the hood this morning (cursing myself as I did so for taking that prolonged rest) that the educator image is called Image191 on Line 108. I don't know if that's a JS thing or not, but it does not look consistent with the rest of the code and consistency is, I've decided, my dearest friend in web development. I thank anyone who cares to take a look and shed some light on this matter. I'll never pass Bobby (Bobbie?), for one thing, until I get the alt tags to actually show up. Sherry from New Hampshire The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
I sent this once but it didn't show up. I apologize to everyone if this duplicates. I looked at your site and all the alt tags are showing up, except for your spacer images. You should specify an alt for those to (the name attribute doesn't cover it.) A shot in the dark about why they don't show up on your machine. Do you maybe have a previous version cached? Try reloading to see if it helps. Isn't bobby the accessibility validator? You won't even make it past the W3C validator until you get rid of your *margin specs (move to style sheet) and add a DOCTYPE declaration. Not that you asked, but in general, the page looks good. And thanks for the ONTOPIC! Between virus info, Home Networking, Win XP, etc ad nausem, I had figured this list was becoming very unsubscribe-able. J.R. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Perry et al, Du-uh. Maybe I don't have a problem after all. I use NN 4.7 on a dial-up and when the page loads you can see all the little alt tags' text in the boxes that are soon to be filled in with the rectangular buttons. The boxes remain blank for town officials, professionals and a couple of the others. But yes, when I roll the mouse over the buttons I can read the alt tags just fine. So, maybe I just have another question: is that enough for text-reading persons with visual impairments to be able to use the page nicely? Can their browsers read those alt tags even if they don't show up in the little boxes, is the mouse over label enough for them? If so, then I don't have a problem. If so, then I'll guess my problem with Bobbie is because I have an unlabelled spacer gif (and maybe some unlabelled tables) on the page. I'd quite forgotten about the info feature. Thanks for the reminder, Perry. The labeling of the educator button image as Image191 occurs on Line 108 in my DW HTML. It doesn't seem to affect anything but is puzzling. Perhaps it's a JS thing but I don't see that sort of label anywhere else... Thank you. This really is helpful. Sherry Gerenday, Perry (P.) wrote: sherry young [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Why don't my alt tags all show up on the page? If/when you go to the index page: http://www.merrimackccd.org = I looked at your site in IE5.5 and Netscape 4.7. All the alt tags show up when I mouse over the images. = the educator image is called Image191 on Line 108. I don't know if that's a JS thing or not, but it does not look consistent with the rest of the code == Sherry, I'm not sure what you're seeing here either. If you right-click an image in Internet Explorer you'll get a pop-up menu. At the bottom of the menu you can choose properties. That will give you the name of the image plus some other info. In Netscape, right-click the image and choose view info. This will give you a list of every image on your page. If you click on one of the images in the list Netscape will show you the image and give you more info about it. == HTH The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Sherry wrote: snip maybe I just have another question: is that enough for text-reading persons with visual impairments to be able to use the page nicely? Can their browsers read those alt tags even if they don't show up in the little boxes, is the mouse over label enough for them? /snip It's a very long way from accessible. Aural browsers read all the content. Tables are read left to right and down each row. The navigation is via the tab key and not the mouse. So at minimum you need to start with a skip nav link so the nav buttons and bars can be skipped over and the main content gone to directly. More importantly, mouseovers are a major problem for aural browsers because of the tab key, not a mouse, for navigation. In other words, no mouseover, no alt tags since they are in the replacement image not the original image. Hence you have to provide an entire alternative method for producing the same effect for non-mouse devices. This is usually done with css using display:none so the sighted don't see it but it can be read. It's not easy. Us sighteds think about it visually. You can expect your code to pretty much almost double to do a site 508 compliant. It's made much worse by using table layouts. CSS box design at least will generally get the content in linear order (absolute positioning messes this up). drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Drew, Thank you for this admittedly disheartening information. Can I just do an alternate, text-based site? Am I dreaming or wouldn't this be easier? Is it correct to assume that people using aural browsers never use NN 4.? TIA Sherry Trusz, Andrew wrote: Sherry wrote: snip maybe I just have another question: is that enough for text-reading persons with visual impairments to be able to use the page nicely? Can their browsers read those alt tags even if they don't show up in the little boxes, is the mouse over label enough for them? /snip It's a very long way from accessible. Aural browsers read all the content. Tables are read left to right and down each row. The navigation is via the tab key and not the mouse. So at minimum you need to start with a skip nav link so the nav buttons and bars can be skipped over and the main content gone to directly. More importantly, mouseovers are a major problem for aural browsers because of the tab key, not a mouse, for navigation. In other words, no mouseover, no alt tags since they are in the replacement image not the original image. Hence you have to provide an entire alternative method for producing the same effect for non-mouse devices. This is usually done with css using display:none so the sighted don't see it but it can be read. It's not easy. Us sighteds think about it visually. You can expect your code to pretty much almost double to do a site 508 compliant. It's made much worse by using table layouts. CSS box design at least will generally get the content in linear order (absolute positioning messes this up). drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Sherry wrote: snip maybe I just have another question: is that enough for text-reading persons with visual impairments to be able to use the page nicely? Can their browsers read those alt tags even if they don't show up in the little boxes, is the mouse over label enough for them? /snip It's a very long way from accessible. Aural browsers read all the content. Tables are read left to right and down each row. The navigation is via the tab key and not the mouse. So at minimum you need to start with a skip nav link so the nav buttons and bars can be skipped over and the main content gone to directly. More importantly, mouseovers are a major problem for aural browsers because of the tab key, not a mouse, for navigation. In other words, no mouseover, no alt tags since they are in the replacement image not the original image. Hence you have to provide an entire alternative method for producing the same effect for non-mouse devices. This is usually done with css using display:none so the sighted don't see it but it can be read. It's not easy. Us sighteds think about it visually. You can expect your code to pretty much almost double to do a site 508 compliant. It's made much worse by using table layouts. CSS box design at least will generally get the content in linear order (absolute positioning messes this up). drew A bookmark for you , Sherry : http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby is a validator that specifically tests for accessibility - trots you out a depressing list of where your page which you've fought to the death to display nicely in x y z browsers might still fail the 508 test... Franni The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
hi sherry let me make a few points to help you first of all, alt is not a tag, it's an attribute secondly, alt is NOT a tooltip just because some stupid browser company stupidly took it upon themselves to make their stupid browser display the contents of the alt attribute when you mouse over an image does NOT imply that this is correct behaviour or that other browsers should do the same the alt attribute's single purpose is to provide information WHEN THE IMAGE IS MISSING sorry, i'm not shouting at you, i'm angry at the browser companies you want tooltips? use the title attribute in fact, the alt and title attributes can, and often should, have different contents if the image really carries no information at all, like a spacer gif, the you should declare an empty alt attribute, i.e. alt= an empty or zero-length alt string is not the same as a missing alt i realize it may be difficult to go through your code and look for images that are missing alt attributes, but, as with so many other web dev tasks, there's a bookmarklet to help you! see http://www.508compliant.com/tools.htm at the bottom finally, to get probably more info on the alt attribute than you thought you'd ever want, see Use of ALT texts in IMGs http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/%7eflavell/alt/alt-text.html and don't forget to have a look at his howlers rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
perry re: www.klugelab.com you wouldn't have it in your sig if you didn't want people to look, right? the graphics are drop dead gorgeous -- really nice job NOT FOUND The requested URL /prof_kluge.html was not found on this server. the other links work, except they don't actually go anywhere the only thing that's there is the deep field thingie, and i don't get it is this a new site? when should i come back? and what's with the wee scrollbars on the top and bottom frames? by the way, visitors whose windows aren't fully maximized to at least 800 will never know that the middle frame actually has a scrollbar -- it would be cut off rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
According to all the accessibility information I've read including in the WAI docs a spacer image should have the alt attribute but with no description because it is a meaningless image. So the proper tag is img scr=spacer.gif height=1px width=50px alt= See http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wai-gl-techniques-19980918.html#spacer-images Cheryl D. Wise WiserWays Office: 713.353.0139 Mobile: 713.412.0406 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: J.R. Pitts I looked at your site and all the alt tags are showing up, except for your spacer images. You should specify an alt for those to (the name attribute doesn't cover it.) A shot in the dark about why they don't show up on your machine. Do you maybe have a previous version cached? Try reloading to see if it helps. Isn't bobby the accessibility validator? You won't even make it past the W3C validator until you get rid of your *margin specs (move to style sheet) and add a DOCTYPE declaration. Not that you asked, but in general, the page looks good. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
... a spacer image should have the alt attribute but with no description because it is a meaningless image. So the proper tag is img scr=spacer.gif height=1px width=50px alt= there is a slight difference between a null or empty attribute (NOT tag -- i feel like i'm swimming against the current, though) and one that contains a space, as in the example above some browsers (netscape 4+ i think) will show no tooltip for the empty alt, but *will* show a tooltip if there's a space, although of course there's nothing in it, it's just the tooltip box nevertheless, it could be disconcerting to get a blank tooltip box when you happen to mouse over a spacer gif which shouldn't really matter, since tooltips aren't really what the alt attribute is for anyway, but as a good web developer, you want to minimize the number of whoopsies your code produces better to use an empty string, not a single space the good news is that apparently aural browsers ignore both the empty string alt and one with a space rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
busy writing out by hand 100 times alt is an attribute of the img tag - Original Message - From: rudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 4:10 PM Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question : ... a spacer image should have the alt attribute but with no :description because it is a meaningless image. So the proper tag is : img scr=spacer.gif height=1px width=50px alt= : : there is a slight difference between a null or empty attribute (NOT tag -- i : feel like i'm swimming against the current, though) and one that contains a : space, as in the example above : : some browsers (netscape 4+ i think) will show no tooltip for the empty alt, : but *will* show a tooltip if there's a space, although of course there's : nothing in it, it's just the tooltip box : : nevertheless, it could be disconcerting to get a blank tooltip box when you : happen to mouse over a spacer gif : : which shouldn't really matter, since tooltips aren't really what the alt : attribute is for anyway, but as a good web developer, you want to minimize : the number of whoopsies your code produces : : better to use an empty string, not a single space : : the good news is that apparently aural browsers ignore both the empty string : alt and one with a space : : : rudy : : : . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . : To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: : http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub : : http://www.wdvl.com ___ : : You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% : : --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.456 / Virus Database: 256 - Release Date: 18/02/03 The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Thank you, Michael. Now I understand why it's called an attribute and what it's in relation to. Sherry michael ensor wrote: busy writing out by hand 100 times alt is an attribute of the img tag The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Oh dear, there I am, sitting in Howler Land. Front and center. At least I haven't put [LINK] anywhere... Alas, the 508 compliant link doesn't work, even when I go to their home page, which is apparently under development. I like the other site a lot. The background colour is very restful to my weary old eyes and the writing is clear. Thanks. S. rudy wrote: if the image really carries no information at all, like a spacer gif, the you should declare an empty alt attribute, i.e. alt= i realize it may be difficult to go through your code and look for images that are missing alt attributes, but, as with so many other web dev tasks, there's a bookmarklet to help you! see http://www.508compliant.com/tools.htm at the bottom finally, to get probably more info on the alt attribute than you thought you'd ever want, see Use of ALT texts in IMGs http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/%7eflavell/alt/alt-text.html and don't forget to have a look at his howlers The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
Sherry, I seem to remember you using DW as your editor; it should make site-wide changes easier. Validating against Bobby or W3C can be frustrating, but it gets more natural. For instance, I just checked a new site I'm doing against the Bobby validator that someone else sent you and got all the way up to Priority 3 before an error right out of the box. Lucky. Compliance with standards is important of course, but let me tell you what I do before even worrying about validating. I use the Opera browser. With it I can hit g and turn off all graphics. Then Ctrl-G turns off the style sheet. In half a second this gives me: A real good idea of what blind users can see of my page, A real good idea of what search engines think of my page, and A real good idea of what mobile (phone, PDA) devices get from my page. Unless someone specifically requests a particular compliance, I probably spend more time worrying about how my page passes this test than I do the actual validator. J.R. -Original Message- From: sherry young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question JR, I just went in and did a Find in the HTML and put alt tags on the two spacers on the page. I feel like a genius. Now I realize I need to do that sitewide. It must be maddening to rely on alt tags and have some be anonymous and not know what they are. JR, it's probably going to be a cold day in hell before I make it past the W3C validator. I tried both Bobby and W3C with dismal results. I go back from time to time (in my Voluminous Spare Time with all my Extra Energy) and peck away at it. You will all KNOW the exact time and day I ever pass this site through W3C. For my first trick, I do need to overcome my fear, paw through my web tips file for the advice folks here have given me and write that DOCTYPE statement. I'm about ready to start doing a CSS tutorial so I can add the font, something and something else CSS style indicators to my mix. (I can never remember the names of two of the three CSS labels/attributes/directions/tags NN 4.7 supports.) I've been putting this off for a lng time. I need to make some content changes first (like updating the What's New page--or renaming it MCCD--A Historical Perspective). Before you even ask, I use NN 4.7 as my default browser, as does almost everyone else in what's laughingly known as my Real Life. I also, after consulting with a friend who works for Burlington Coat Factory, decided to do what they do and create the site for the lowest common denominator. If it's good enough for Burlington, it's good enough for me. I figure that way everyone (my boss, for one) can use the site. I'm not hindered by the boredom of repetitive tables--too busy trying not to drown in a sea of nearly incomprehensible technology--so that's not a factor for me. Finally, how very ironic that I, of all people, should be the person who asks an on-topic question. I'm sure my peers who now me over time are quite amused by this, as I often forget what list I'm on and zig when I should zag. I haven't a clue what they're discussing but I often hear terms like PHP, MySQL, ASP and .net bandied about. I think maybe you've come on board at a time in which other things have crept in. I don't understand most of them, either. Thank you for your advice. I totally love this list. Someday I may actually understand its content. Sherry J.R. Pitts wrote: I looked at your site and all the alt tags are showing up, except for your spacer images. Isn't bobby the accessibility validator? You won't even make it past the W3C validator until you get rid of your *margin specs (move to style sheet) and add a DOCTYPE declaration. Not that you asked, but in general, the page looks good. And thanks for the ONTOPIC! Between virus info, Home Networking, Win XP, etc ad nausem, I had figured this list was becoming very unsubscribe-able. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[wdvltalk] RE: Alt tag question
busy writing out by hand 100 times alt is an attribute of the img tag 'alt' is an attribute of the 'img' element. Regards, David The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
