Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Shani Evenstein]

Thanks for your suggestions and links. We'll consider all of them.

Shani.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 04:04 Stuart A. Yeates  I've been active in WMF projects for more than a decade (evidence at
> https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Stuartyeates ) and have
> seen _many_ similar surveys (a partial list can be found at
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_studies_of_Wikipedia#Survey_and_poll_results
> ). Wikidata is just flavor of the month.
>
> You talk about looking for correlation, but your questions do not
> appear to be designed to collect data that statistical correlations
> can be run on. When you use a free-text box for "In which country do
> you currently live?" and conflate three pieces of information in one
> free text field with "Where do you work? (The name of the workplace,
> city and country)" you seem unlikely to get data suitable for
> algorithmic correlation. The country information appears to be asked
> for twice in different ways, it's not clear what sampling purpose this
> serves or what research question this answers.
>
> You say "Every single question in this questionnaire is asking
> participants about their *personal experience* engaging with Wikidata
> as a learning platform, making it personal information." But there is
> no evidence that you've seriously engaged with the responsibilities of
> collecting and holding personal data; it appears you will be in breach
> of the EU data protection guidelines if a single EU citizens answer
> your survey, for example.
>
> I suggest that you take a read of the resources at
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement_Insights so that
> you can normalise your demographics and leverage the experience of
> many people who have been surveying WMF users for a _very_ long time.
>
> I am not unsupportive of research --- it's the only way forward in
> lots of areas, but it needs to be good research.
>
> cheers
> stuart
> --
> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 12:02, Shani Evenstein 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Stuart.
> >
> > Thank you for your feedback. A few comments on what you wrote --
> >
> > * With the exception of username & email (which are mandatory), all the
> > other personal details are not, so it is up to participants to decide on
> > their level of interaction and involvement. Some people are happy to
> share
> > the information requested, some less so.
> >
> > * Every single piece of data collected is related to a research
> > question(s).  As an example, one part of the questionnaire focuses on
> > community and how it influences learning. For this part specifically, we
> > wanted to check (among other things) for a correlation between online
> > activity on WD and participation in various social media platforms, such
> as
> > the WD Facebook group and the telegram group, so a cross between the
> > username and real name is needed. That does not suit everyone, and that's
> > fine, but it's a question we'd like to answer and are therefore
> collecting
> > this information from those willing to provide it.
> >
> > * Not sure which "similar surveys" you are comparing this research to,
> but
> > there was never any similar research about Wikidata. Even the ones I know
> > of about Wikipedia, also do not research for exactly what I'm
> researching.
> > That said, many research papers I've read that deal with learners, try to
> > infer from personal data such as age, occupation, gender etc. This is not
> > uncommon and the terms of confidentiality were expressed clearly.
> >
> > * When you write, "the overview suggests that further pages are going to
> > ask for more personal information", that is absolutely right.
> > Every single question in this questionnaire is asking participants about
> > their *personal experience* engaging with Wikidata as a learning
> platform,
> > making it personal information. I'm unsure why you find that problematic.
> > That is what questionnaires do. They ask participants about their
> > experience with X.
> >
> > Finally, our community never had any similar research done on Wikidata,
> > especially not in relation to Education, and I have naturally asked for
> the
> > community's support.
> > This research cannot happen without the community. It reply on it
> heavily,
> > unlike other (and very popular) "big data" approaches.
> > There are various way in which the community demonstrated its support --
> > some chose to fill out the questionnaire; some even agreed to participate
> > in a follow up interview; some would not fill it out themselves, but have
> > shared it with their local communities; some simply sent some good words
> > and 'good luck' my way; and some sent me (welcome) feedback on things to
> > improve.  They did so (and continue to do so) because they know it's an
> > important topic, and I'd like to believe that it's also because they know
> > me and trust me. They know that being part of the community, I will do
> > whatever I

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Shani Evenstein]

Kerry,

We stated the research asking for these details and changed it to not
mandatory a week later considering feedback we got. Could be the you filled
it out before it was changed. If there's anything you'd like deleted,
please let me kniw privately.

Shani.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 03:25 Kerry Raymond  Other personal details did appear to be mandatory. For me, trying leave a
> page without answering some of the personal questions caused them to
> display with a pink background saying it was mandatory in red. That was my
> experience.
>
> Kerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On Behalf Of Shani Evenstein
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2018 9:02 AM
> To: wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research
> about Wikidata as a learning platform
>
> Hello, Stuart.
>
> Thank you for your feedback. A few comments on what you wrote --
>
> * With the exception of username & email (which are mandatory), all the
> other personal details are not, so it is up to participants to decide on
> their level of interaction and involvement. Some people are happy to share
> the information requested, some less so.
>
> * Every single piece of data collected is related to a research
> question(s).  As an example, one part of the questionnaire focuses on
> community and how it influences learning. For this part specifically, we
> wanted to check (among other things) for a correlation between online
> activity on WD and participation in various social media platforms, such as
> the WD Facebook group and the telegram group, so a cross between the
> username and real name is needed. That does not suit everyone, and that's
> fine, but it's a question we'd like to answer and are therefore collecting
> this information from those willing to provide it.
>
> * Not sure which "similar surveys" you are comparing this research to, but
> there was never any similar research about Wikidata. Even the ones I know
> of about Wikipedia, also do not research for exactly what I'm researching.
> That said, many research papers I've read that deal with learners, try to
> infer from personal data such as age, occupation, gender etc. This is not
> uncommon and the terms of confidentiality were expressed clearly.
>
> * When you write, "the overview suggests that further pages are going to
> ask for more personal information", that is absolutely right.
> Every single question in this questionnaire is asking participants about
> their *personal experience* engaging with Wikidata as a learning platform,
> making it personal information. I'm unsure why you find that problematic.
> That is what questionnaires do. They ask participants about their
> experience with X.
>
> Finally, our community never had any similar research done on Wikidata,
> especially not in relation to Education, and I have naturally asked for the
> community's support.
> This research cannot happen without the community. It reply on it heavily,
> unlike other (and very popular) "big data" approaches.
> There are various way in which the community demonstrated its support --
> some chose to fill out the questionnaire; some even agreed to participate
> in a follow up interview; some would not fill it out themselves, but have
> shared it with their local communities; some simply sent some good words
> and 'good luck' my way; and some sent me (welcome) feedback on things to
> improve.  They did so (and continue to do so) because they know it's an
> important topic, and I'd like to believe that it's also because they know
> me and trust me. They know that being part of the community, I will do
> whatever I can to use the information they shared with me for the good and
> for creating positive impact in Academia (which I have done for years with
> Wikipedia and now with Wikidata).
>
> While I do not expect anyone to show support blindly, I do find your
> message a bit puzzling -- weather you meant it or not, your mail suggests
> that your are unsupportive of this research and your tone was dismissive,
> without portraying the situation accurately, nor by checking the details
> properly.
> That is your prerogative, as is not filling out the questionnaire. But I
> would urge you to reconsider.
> Take a closer look. Assume good faith. And you'll find that once you pass
> the personal info part, the questions are not at all intrusive, but rather
> focused, genuine, inquisitive and most importantly -- focused on the
> Wikidata experience you've had.
>
> In short, I hope you reconsider. If you don't, that'

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Stuart A. Yeates]

I've been active in WMF projects for more than a decade (evidence at
https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Stuartyeates ) and have
seen _many_ similar surveys (a partial list can be found at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_studies_of_Wikipedia#Survey_and_poll_results
). Wikidata is just flavor of the month.

You talk about looking for correlation, but your questions do not
appear to be designed to collect data that statistical correlations
can be run on. When you use a free-text box for "In which country do
you currently live?" and conflate three pieces of information in one
free text field with "Where do you work? (The name of the workplace,
city and country)" you seem unlikely to get data suitable for
algorithmic correlation. The country information appears to be asked
for twice in different ways, it's not clear what sampling purpose this
serves or what research question this answers.

You say "Every single question in this questionnaire is asking
participants about their *personal experience* engaging with Wikidata
as a learning platform, making it personal information." But there is
no evidence that you've seriously engaged with the responsibilities of
collecting and holding personal data; it appears you will be in breach
of the EU data protection guidelines if a single EU citizens answer
your survey, for example.

I suggest that you take a read of the resources at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement_Insights so that
you can normalise your demographics and leverage the experience of
many people who have been surveying WMF users for a _very_ long time.

I am not unsupportive of research --- it's the only way forward in
lots of areas, but it needs to be good research.

cheers
stuart
--
...let us be heard from red core to black sky
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 12:02, Shani Evenstein  wrote:
>
> Hello, Stuart.
>
> Thank you for your feedback. A few comments on what you wrote --
>
> * With the exception of username & email (which are mandatory), all the
> other personal details are not, so it is up to participants to decide on
> their level of interaction and involvement. Some people are happy to share
> the information requested, some less so.
>
> * Every single piece of data collected is related to a research
> question(s).  As an example, one part of the questionnaire focuses on
> community and how it influences learning. For this part specifically, we
> wanted to check (among other things) for a correlation between online
> activity on WD and participation in various social media platforms, such as
> the WD Facebook group and the telegram group, so a cross between the
> username and real name is needed. That does not suit everyone, and that's
> fine, but it's a question we'd like to answer and are therefore collecting
> this information from those willing to provide it.
>
> * Not sure which "similar surveys" you are comparing this research to, but
> there was never any similar research about Wikidata. Even the ones I know
> of about Wikipedia, also do not research for exactly what I'm researching.
> That said, many research papers I've read that deal with learners, try to
> infer from personal data such as age, occupation, gender etc. This is not
> uncommon and the terms of confidentiality were expressed clearly.
>
> * When you write, "the overview suggests that further pages are going to
> ask for more personal information", that is absolutely right.
> Every single question in this questionnaire is asking participants about
> their *personal experience* engaging with Wikidata as a learning platform,
> making it personal information. I'm unsure why you find that problematic.
> That is what questionnaires do. They ask participants about their
> experience with X.
>
> Finally, our community never had any similar research done on Wikidata,
> especially not in relation to Education, and I have naturally asked for the
> community's support.
> This research cannot happen without the community. It reply on it heavily,
> unlike other (and very popular) "big data" approaches.
> There are various way in which the community demonstrated its support --
> some chose to fill out the questionnaire; some even agreed to participate
> in a follow up interview; some would not fill it out themselves, but have
> shared it with their local communities; some simply sent some good words
> and 'good luck' my way; and some sent me (welcome) feedback on things to
> improve.  They did so (and continue to do so) because they know it's an
> important topic, and I'd like to believe that it's also because they know
> me and trust me. They know that being part of the community, I will do
> whatever I can to use the information they shared with me for the good and
> for creating positive impact in Academia (which I have done for years with
> Wikipedia and now with Wikidata).
>
> While I do not expect anyone to show support blindly, I do find your
> message a bit puzzling -- weather you meant it or no

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Kerry Raymond]

Other personal details did appear to be mandatory. For me, trying leave a page 
without answering some of the personal questions caused them to display with a 
pink background saying it was mandatory in red. That was my experience. 

Kerry

-Original Message-
From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On 
Behalf Of Shani Evenstein
Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2018 9:02 AM
To: wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about 
Wikidata as a learning platform

Hello, Stuart.

Thank you for your feedback. A few comments on what you wrote --

* With the exception of username & email (which are mandatory), all the other 
personal details are not, so it is up to participants to decide on their level 
of interaction and involvement. Some people are happy to share the information 
requested, some less so.

* Every single piece of data collected is related to a research question(s).  
As an example, one part of the questionnaire focuses on community and how it 
influences learning. For this part specifically, we wanted to check (among 
other things) for a correlation between online activity on WD and participation 
in various social media platforms, such as the WD Facebook group and the 
telegram group, so a cross between the username and real name is needed. That 
does not suit everyone, and that's fine, but it's a question we'd like to 
answer and are therefore collecting this information from those willing to 
provide it.

* Not sure which "similar surveys" you are comparing this research to, but 
there was never any similar research about Wikidata. Even the ones I know of 
about Wikipedia, also do not research for exactly what I'm researching.
That said, many research papers I've read that deal with learners, try to infer 
from personal data such as age, occupation, gender etc. This is not uncommon 
and the terms of confidentiality were expressed clearly.

* When you write, "the overview suggests that further pages are going to ask 
for more personal information", that is absolutely right.
Every single question in this questionnaire is asking participants about their 
*personal experience* engaging with Wikidata as a learning platform, making it 
personal information. I'm unsure why you find that problematic.
That is what questionnaires do. They ask participants about their experience 
with X.

Finally, our community never had any similar research done on Wikidata, 
especially not in relation to Education, and I have naturally asked for the 
community's support.
This research cannot happen without the community. It reply on it heavily, 
unlike other (and very popular) "big data" approaches.
There are various way in which the community demonstrated its support -- some 
chose to fill out the questionnaire; some even agreed to participate in a 
follow up interview; some would not fill it out themselves, but have shared it 
with their local communities; some simply sent some good words and 'good luck' 
my way; and some sent me (welcome) feedback on things to improve.  They did so 
(and continue to do so) because they know it's an important topic, and I'd like 
to believe that it's also because they know me and trust me. They know that 
being part of the community, I will do whatever I can to use the information 
they shared with me for the good and for creating positive impact in Academia 
(which I have done for years with Wikipedia and now with Wikidata).

While I do not expect anyone to show support blindly, I do find your message a 
bit puzzling -- weather you meant it or not, your mail suggests that your are 
unsupportive of this research and your tone was dismissive, without portraying 
the situation accurately, nor by checking the details properly.
That is your prerogative, as is not filling out the questionnaire. But I would 
urge you to reconsider.
Take a closer look. Assume good faith. And you'll find that once you pass the 
personal info part, the questions are not at all intrusive, but rather focused, 
genuine, inquisitive and most importantly -- focused on the Wikidata experience 
you've had.

In short, I hope you reconsider. If you don't, that's fine as well.

Shani.

---
*Shani Evenstein Sigalov*
EdTech Innovation Strategist, NY/American Medical Program, Sackler School of 
Medicine, Tel Aviv University.
PhD Candidate, School of Education, Tel Aviv University.
Lecturer, Tel Aviv University.
Chairperson, WikiProject Medicine Foundation 
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med>.
Chairperson, Wikipedia & Education User Group 
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Group>.
Chairperson, The Hebrew Literature Digitization Society 
<http://www.israelgives.org/amuta/580428621>.
Chief Editor, Pr

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Shani Evenstein]

Hello, Stuart.

Thank you for your feedback. A few comments on what you wrote --

* With the exception of username & email (which are mandatory), all the
other personal details are not, so it is up to participants to decide on
their level of interaction and involvement. Some people are happy to share
the information requested, some less so.

* Every single piece of data collected is related to a research
question(s).  As an example, one part of the questionnaire focuses on
community and how it influences learning. For this part specifically, we
wanted to check (among other things) for a correlation between online
activity on WD and participation in various social media platforms, such as
the WD Facebook group and the telegram group, so a cross between the
username and real name is needed. That does not suit everyone, and that's
fine, but it's a question we'd like to answer and are therefore collecting
this information from those willing to provide it.

* Not sure which "similar surveys" you are comparing this research to, but
there was never any similar research about Wikidata. Even the ones I know
of about Wikipedia, also do not research for exactly what I'm researching.
That said, many research papers I've read that deal with learners, try to
infer from personal data such as age, occupation, gender etc. This is not
uncommon and the terms of confidentiality were expressed clearly.

* When you write, "the overview suggests that further pages are going to
ask for more personal information", that is absolutely right.
Every single question in this questionnaire is asking participants about
their *personal experience* engaging with Wikidata as a learning platform,
making it personal information. I'm unsure why you find that problematic.
That is what questionnaires do. They ask participants about their
experience with X.

Finally, our community never had any similar research done on Wikidata,
especially not in relation to Education, and I have naturally asked for the
community's support.
This research cannot happen without the community. It reply on it heavily,
unlike other (and very popular) "big data" approaches.
There are various way in which the community demonstrated its support --
some chose to fill out the questionnaire; some even agreed to participate
in a follow up interview; some would not fill it out themselves, but have
shared it with their local communities; some simply sent some good words
and 'good luck' my way; and some sent me (welcome) feedback on things to
improve.  They did so (and continue to do so) because they know it's an
important topic, and I'd like to believe that it's also because they know
me and trust me. They know that being part of the community, I will do
whatever I can to use the information they shared with me for the good and
for creating positive impact in Academia (which I have done for years with
Wikipedia and now with Wikidata).

While I do not expect anyone to show support blindly, I do find your
message a bit puzzling -- weather you meant it or not, your mail suggests
that your are unsupportive of this research and your tone was dismissive,
without portraying the situation accurately, nor by checking the details
properly.
That is your prerogative, as is not filling out the questionnaire. But I
would urge you to reconsider.
Take a closer look. Assume good faith. And you'll find that once you pass
the personal info part, the questions are not at all intrusive, but rather
focused, genuine, inquisitive and most importantly -- focused on the
Wikidata experience you've had.

In short, I hope you reconsider. If you don't, that's fine as well.

Shani.

---
*Shani Evenstein Sigalov*
EdTech Innovation Strategist, NY/American Medical Program, Sackler School
of Medicine, Tel Aviv University.
PhD Candidate, School of Education, Tel Aviv University.
Lecturer, Tel Aviv University.
Chairperson, WikiProject Medicine Foundation
.
Chairperson, Wikipedia & Education User Group
.
Chairperson, The Hebrew Literature Digitization Society
.
Chief Editor, Project Ben-Yehuda .
*+972-525640648*


On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 11:52 PM Stuart A. Yeates  wrote:

> I find the personal information requested particularly intrusive
> compared to other similar surveys (and the overview suggests that
> further pages are going to ask for more personal information),
> especially since the cover page does not mention any ethics board
> approval (not sure if this is required in Israel).
>
> Do you really have a plan for evaluating the responses that requires
> all this information? If not, why are you collecting it?
>
> As it stand I'll not be answering this survey.
>
> cheers
> stuart
>
> --
> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky
>
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 10:14, Shani Evenste

Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Stuart A. Yeates]

I find the personal information requested particularly intrusive
compared to other similar surveys (and the overview suggests that
further pages are going to ask for more personal information),
especially since the cover page does not mention any ethics board
approval (not sure if this is required in Israel).

Do you really have a plan for evaluating the responses that requires
all this information? If not, why are you collecting it?

As it stand I'll not be answering this survey.

cheers
stuart

--
...let us be heard from red core to black sky

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 at 10:14, Shani Evenstein  wrote:
>
> Thanks, Leila!
> Not sure why this happened with the link, but happy you found one that
> works.  :)
>
> Shani.
>
> ---
> *Shani Evenstein Sigalov*
> EdTech Innovation Strategist, NY/American Medical Program, Sackler School
> of Medicine, Tel Aviv University.
> PhD Candidate, School of Education, Tel Aviv University.
> Lecturer, Tel Aviv University.
> Chairperson, WikiProject Medicine Foundation
> .
> Chairperson, Wikipedia & Education User Group
> .
> Chairperson, The Hebrew Literature Digitization Society
> .
> Chief Editor, Project Ben-Yehuda .
> *+972-525640648*
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 11:00 PM Leila Zia  wrote:
>
> > Hi Shani and all,
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 5:27 AM Shani Evenstein 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Wiki-researchers,
> > >
> > > I have a huge favor to ask of everyone in this mailing list --
> > >
> > > TLDR: *please fill out* *this questionnaire
> > > <
> > https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/%E2%80%8Bhttps://goo.gl/forms/WMFb6j2mpG2HwFTx2!
> > !>!*
> >
> > There is something about the above link that doesn't work. I /think/
> > you meant to share:
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc_h3LPcPgM2V3W5tNdRdWjw3ayRUq73nD0HyhVz07SKwE0Hw/viewform
> >
> > Good luck with your research! :)
> >
> > Best,
> > Leila
> >
> > ___
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> ___
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l

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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Shani Evenstein]

Thanks, Leila!
Not sure why this happened with the link, but happy you found one that
works.  :)

Shani.

---
*Shani Evenstein Sigalov*
EdTech Innovation Strategist, NY/American Medical Program, Sackler School
of Medicine, Tel Aviv University.
PhD Candidate, School of Education, Tel Aviv University.
Lecturer, Tel Aviv University.
Chairperson, WikiProject Medicine Foundation
.
Chairperson, Wikipedia & Education User Group
.
Chairperson, The Hebrew Literature Digitization Society
.
Chief Editor, Project Ben-Yehuda .
*+972-525640648*


On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 11:00 PM Leila Zia  wrote:

> Hi Shani and all,
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 5:27 AM Shani Evenstein 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Wiki-researchers,
> >
> > I have a huge favor to ask of everyone in this mailing list --
> >
> > TLDR: *please fill out* *this questionnaire
> > <
> https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/%E2%80%8Bhttps://goo.gl/forms/WMFb6j2mpG2HwFTx2!
> !>!*
>
> There is something about the above link that doesn't work. I /think/
> you meant to share:
>
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc_h3LPcPgM2V3W5tNdRdWjw3ayRUq73nD0HyhVz07SKwE0Hw/viewform
>
> Good luck with your research! :)
>
> Best,
> Leila
>
> ___
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
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Re: [Wiki-research-l] Invitations to participate in a research about Wikidata as a learning platform

[Leila Zia]

Hi Shani and all,

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 5:27 AM Shani Evenstein  wrote:
>
> Dear Wiki-researchers,
>
> I have a huge favor to ask of everyone in this mailing list --
>
> TLDR: *please fill out* *this questionnaire
> !*

There is something about the above link that doesn't work. I /think/
you meant to share:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc_h3LPcPgM2V3W5tNdRdWjw3ayRUq73nD0HyhVz07SKwE0Hw/viewform

Good luck with your research! :)

Best,
Leila

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