Re: [Wikidata-l] Various questions
> * 9001: ISO 9001, which deals with quality assurance I've been informed that this was actually a joke about over 9000 and not a joke about the current state of the code. > +1 for removing the blacklist from the code. I don't mind the blacklist, though I would recommend removing ID 1 from it. That confuses people. The others are high enough up that most people won't notice. > Not that I am aware of. Quite the opposite. > People like the easter eggs. It gave me a chuckle. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Various questions
Some questions: I was looking through the configuration trying to debug my issues from my last email and noticed the list of blacklisted IDs. They appear to be numbers with special meaning. I was curious about two things, why are they blacklisted and what is the meaning of the remaining number? * 1: I imagine that this just refers to #1 * 23: Probably refers to the 23 enigma * 42: Life the universe and everything * 1337: leet * 9001: ISO 9001, which deals with quality assurance * 31337: Elite The only number that left me lost was 720101010. I couldn't figure this one out. This list is located in extensions/Wikibase/repo/config/Wikibase.default.php Doing a quick grep for the jquery.ui.menu within the Wikidata extension folder I came up with the following results: ./extensions/ValueView/lib/resources.php:'jquery.ui.autocomplete', // needs jquery.ui.menu ./lib/resources/jquery.wikibase/resources.php: 'jquery.ui.menu', ./lib/resources/jquery.wikibase/resources.php: 'jquery.ui.menu', Just fooling around I decided to comment out the two lines requiring jquery.ui.menu in the jquery.wikibase/resources.php file. Refreshing the page I ran into the same error as before, but this time with a module called JSON. Does the Wikidata extension depend on another extension that adds these resource loader modules? According to ResourceLoader/Default_modules on Mediawiki.org, Mediawiki does not ship with jquery.ui.menu. This does seem a bit weird, because I believe the comment that jquery.ui.autocomplete requires jquery.ui.menu is correct and ResourceLoader includes jquery.ui.autocomplete by default. Am I missing something? I'm definitely confused at this point. As I wrote this email I was called into my managers office to be informed that I am being laid off as part of a corporate restructuring. They've decided to outsource all of IT. So while I am still curious about the answers to the questions laid out in this email and the previous, this is no longer a project I will be actively working on. I may still fool around with trying to get a Wikibase installation set up on my own. My email for this mailing list will also be changing to my personal email of zellf...@zellfaze.org beginning some time in the next few days. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikibase Error
> Trying to set up Wikibase and I might have something > misconfigured somewhere, or I may have stumbled upon a bug. > > I've installed Wikibase per the instructions, made some > very minor tweaks to the configuration and added my first > property and item. > > Going to the item page with (?debug=true) I get an error > message in Firebug: > Error: Unknown dependency: jquery.ui.menu > throw new Error( 'Unknown dependency: ' + module ); > > http://hostname/load.php?debug=true&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki&only=scri > pts&skin=vector&version=20141107T203616Z > > > I can't seem to add statements to items. I can't see > what I may have done wrong, but I am working off the > assumption that I made a mistake somewhere and that this > isn't a bug. I should note that this only happens when I have define( 'WB_EXPERIMENTAL_FEATURES', true ); in my LocalSettings.php file. Otherwise it doesn't appear to try to allow me to edit things. No error messages in the console and no edit buttons anywhere on the page. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Wikibase Error
Trying to set up Wikibase and I might have something misconfigured somewhere, or I may have stumbled upon a bug. I've installed Wikibase per the instructions, made some very minor tweaks to the configuration and added my first property and item. Going to the item page with (?debug=true) I get an error message in Firebug: Error: Unknown dependency: jquery.ui.menu throw new Error( 'Unknown dependency: ' + module ); http://hostname/load.php?debug=true&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki&only=scri pts&skin=vector&version=20141107T203616Z I can't seem to add statements to items. I can't see what I may have done wrong, but I am working off the assumption that I made a mistake somewhere and that this isn't a bug. Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Querying Arbitrary Wikibase Installations
>>>> I just need to be able to do something like: >>>> >>>> SELECT `qid` FROM Wikibase WHERE `Instance Of` = 'Elephant'; >>>> >>>> Using that list and the Wikibase API, I can do processing on my own of the >>>> returned data and take it from there. >>> >>> That is not possible until simple query functionality is finished. >> >> I knew complex queries were not done yet, but I though simple might be. Its >> of no worry though. I can run a nightly job to iterate through all of the >> items to build an index of them that is good enough for what I need. > > While the MediaWiki extension that will expose this, Wikibase Query, has no > releases yet, the component it is based on, Wikibase QueryEngine, does have > a release already. And that release allows you to do the very basic query in > your example. So if you are fine with specifying the query and getting the > results in PHP land, you can already go ahead and use QueryEngine. PHP land is actually exactly where I need it, so that will work just fine! That will definitely make things easier. No more cronjob to iterate over all of the items to find and cache the results to queries that might be useful to help answer more complex quries! Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Querying Arbitrary Wikibase Installations
> What you are asking for simply is still in development or has not > started yet. Please see > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan for the > development plan. Also CC yourself to > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52385 and > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65626 if you want to be > kept up-to-date on those specific features. I've added myself to the CC list for both of those bugs. >> I just need to be able to do something like: >> >> SELECT `qid` FROM Wikibase WHERE `Instance Of` = 'Elephant'; >> >> Using that list and the Wikibase API, I can do processing on my own of the >> returned data and take it from there. > > That is not possible until simple query functionality is finished. I knew complex queries were not done yet, but I though simple might be. Its of no worry though. I can run a nightly job to iterate through all of the items to build an index of them that is good enough for what I need. Though, that does take some of the excitement out of it, even still I think Wikibase would be better than the sort of adhoc system we have now. >> If I can figure out how to get everything installed and running, I'd be more >> than happy to write up a how-to so that other third party reusers will have >> an easier time in the future. > > http://wikiba.se and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase is what > we have. We're in the process of cleaning those up. Awesome. Thank you for your help. If I run into any problems I'll ask here. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Querying Arbitrary Wikibase Installations
> There is no stable release of the Wikibase Query functionality yet, and even > in the development branch, the feature set is far short of what I guess you > want to use. If I can make a simple query on a single property to narrow down the list of items to something useful, I can use the Wikidata API plus processing within my own software to query things further. That with a healthy amount of caching so that performance isn't awful, should mean that I require only minimal functionality. I just need to be able to do something like: SELECT `qid` FROM Wikibase WHERE `Instance Of` = 'Elephant'; Using that list and the Wikibase API, I can do processing on my own of the returned data and take it from there. > One thing that is not entirely clear to me is if you want to > query data from Wikidata.org, or from your own Wikibase Repository instance. My own Wikibase Repository instance. I believe that I can use https://wdq.wmflabs.org/ plus the API to query from Wikidata if I need to. > In any case, have you considered Semantic MediaWiki for your use case? > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/ Yes. I believe that Wikibase fits the use requirements a little bit better. >> Any help would be appreciated, it looks like Wikibase documentation for >> reusers is not terribly great yet. > > Indeed. We have essentially no user documentation on the features of the > software that is not specific to Wikidata.org. Then again, we also do not > have stable releases or usable release notes for our main applications > (Wikibase Repository and Wikibase Client) suitable for third party users. I > hope we can improve these things in the near future, though one has to hold > into account that third party users are not amongst the first priorities of > the main developer of the Wikibase software, the Wikidata team. Certainly! I wasn't expecting there to be much out there and I completely understand that the priorities of the team are with Wikidata and not with Third Party reuse. If I can figure out how to get everything installed and running, I'd be more than happy to write up a how-to so that other third party reusers will have an easier time in the future. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Querying Arbitrary Wikibase Installations
Hello all, I'm thinking of setting up an installation of Wikibase here at my work to allow folks to store data about things that they work on. Pretty regularly I am tasked with the creation of databases and interfaces for those databases and I suspect that doing this will save me time, make things easier for all of my users, and plus we get revision control for free. I know how to use the Wikidata API to query for information on an individual Wikidata item, but if I want to perform the equivalent of a SELECT statement on a number of Wikidata items (for example to get a list of all items with a particular Instance Of value), how would I go about that? So far it's looking like I am going to need to install the Wikibase Query Engine and the Ask library? https://github.com/wmde/Ask Any help would be appreciated, it looks like Wikibase documentation for reusers is not terribly great yet. After I set things up I'm happy to write a post on my website and create a page on Mediawiki.org to serve as a walkthrough for future users. Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Sitelinks to Redirects
> All right, that may not be a big problem. However, it would be a big problem > if > we have: > > Q(Coat of Arms of Novi Sad) -> Coat of Arms of Novi Sad -> Novi Sad > Q(something) -> Coat of arms of Novi Sad -> Novi Sad > Q(something) -> Coat of arms of novi sad -> Novi Sad This is an argument against redirects that I am able to understand. I'm not sure what the best solution for this is. Perhaps we could lowercase the name of the page and compare that to other items (similar to what we currently do to ensure that no page is site-linked to more than one item). There would be exceptions, but we could warn them at least that they look like they are linking to something that may already be linked to. There are other redirects that are similar that may cause problems. Items with more than a single name that are conceptually the same thing might fall into this. I do think though that having something like what you describe happen is more of a user error though. Can you think of any possible Q(something) that would work for their of those Q(somethings). I.e. can you find a set of items where this problem might actually manifest. Coat of Arms of Novi Sad is a single concept and I can't imagine that we are likely to find too many cases where folks link it accurately to another Wikidata item. Perhaps a report could be put together regularly of possible conflicts? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Users do understand Wikidata less than before
> Yes I do. I did explain why. As far as I am concerned > abot should remove all redirects. I'm not sure anyone in this thread is understanding anyone else. I'm frustrated at this point. We still don't seem to understand where the harm in having them comes from, and you still don't seem to understand where the benefit in having them comes from. I wonder if this entire argument is one huge misunderstanding. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Associating WD items with WP article sections (it was: redirects, workflow)
> There are major problems using redirects as sitelinks. The top one is > that they do not always point to the concept they should, and even if > they do, there is no guarantee that this redirect will keep pointing > to the same place (normally to a section of another article), since > the section title can change. > > Wikipedia supports section labelling: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Labeled_section_transclusion I would support this as a solution. It seems to solve the issue that using redirects in site links wishes to solve. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Sitelinks to Redirects
Just realized that I was not actually caught up but replying to a message from a few days ago. Sorry if the discussion has moved on. >.< Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Sitelinks to Redirects
> With articles it is obvious. The subject matter that will be provided IS what > is advertised. This is NOT the case with re-directs. They point to somewhere > arbitrary and there is no way to ensure that the redirect remains consistent > and fits the subject of the Wikidata item well. I've seen Wikipedia articles change topics many times as well. This is particularly the case with the very kind of Wikipedia articles that would have site-links to redirects in Wikidata. I will admit though that this is a real problem. We can not guarentee that a redirect will continue to point to where we expect it to. Redirects do get broken from time to time as well. I'm sure that a creative solution could be thought up for this problem. The first step would be marking redirects when they are used, which I don't think anyone who wants redirects has any problem with. > Personally I doubt there is value in redirects. Several others have pointed out the value in redirects. They allow for you to interwiki link articles together that otherwise would be impossible to link together. They help create this web of internationalised knowledge. It helps link concepts and explainations together across language boundries. > I find them very Wikipedia centric. Isn't the whole concept of site-links in general Wikipedia centric? > Given the examples given, there was no Wikidata in the first place. > Harvesting redirects is an exceedingly bad idea that will pollute Wikidata > with many items we should not have. How does allowing site-links to redirects "pollute wikidata with many items we should not have"? This does not create new Wikidata items, it merely allows us to efficiently site-link items that we already have. For compound concepts (does anyone have a better term for these?) we would already have an item for the compound concept and its individual constituent concepts anyways. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Sitelinks to Redirects
Thought I'd throw in my opinion on the matter. After reading this thread I think that I agree with the folks who believe that Wikidata items should be able to specify a Wikipedia article that is a redirect as a sitelink to Wikipedia. Its by no means an ideal solution, but I can't see any problems that it causes and I do see problems that it fixes. If there are problems /for Wikidata/ that allowing Wikidata items to link to Wikipedia redirects causes, I would be happy to hear them. I imagine someone likely tried to point some out, but I just didn't quite grasp them. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] all human genes are now wikidata items
This sounds important, but what sort of queries might someone want to run on this data? Despite working at a bio-lab, I am actually not terribly familiar with the human genome and therefore the types of questions having this data on Wikidata can answer. Does anyone have a few example queries (don't have to be possible to execute right now) to show what this could be used for? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Weird graphical problem
Is this just affecting me, or is this something that I ought to report on Bugzilla? https://i.imgur.com/zzdGNYs.png The search bar on Wikidata appears to not actually be where it appears but just below that. Took me a few minutes to realize that is where it ended up. Looks around using Firebug I can't see a good reason it would appear there, making me think maybe it's just an issue with some addon I have in Firefox 32.0. Its persistent between pages. Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Categories again (was Re: Commons Wikibase)
> The categories of Commons are in and off themselves useful to a very limited > extend. Associating the images they refer to with existing items in Wikidata > is one way in which they may be useful. As it is, because of naming > conventions and the use of English only, the categories are pretty lame. They > do not help me when I am looking for an image in Commons at all. Couldn't this still be done from CommonsData? I thought the items in that database would be able to reference the ones in the Wikidata database and vice versa. > Really my point is forget about Commons notability start thinking in terms > of "what does it take to help people find images". Yes, those people will > be 8 years old and they may speak Mandarin or Japanese. I'm confused, wouldn't having the data in CommonsData still help with this? > Considerations about secondary use are secondary. Yes, people may use it > for their own purposes and when it fits their needs, well and good. When it > does not, that is fine too. As it is, we do have all kind of Wiki "junk" in > there. We have disambiguation pages, list articles, templates, categories. > The challenge is to find a use for them. I'd disagree that considerations about secondary use are secondary. Wikidata really has a huge potential for secondary use and we shouldn't forget that. I'm somewhat confused about this thread. Did I miss something? My understanding is that Commons will be getting its own Wikibase install in order to keep track of image metadata. We are currently having a debate over whether the 3.3 million Commons categories should be kept in Wikidata or CommonsData. The CommonsData argument is that it keeps stuff only really useful to Commons out of the namespace that has thus far been mostly used for items relating to the real world. The Wikidata argument is that there is already a ton of "wiki-junk" in Wikidata and we shouldn't worry about reuse of Wikidata because it is primarily a tool for Wikimedia editors and that having the data on Wikidata itself would allow editors to more easily find useful images. Am I understanding that correctly? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikibase now has a home
> Wikibase, the software created for the Wikidata project, now has it's own > website. http://wikiba.se/ > > Among the goals of the website are promoting third party usage and outlining > the various components and applications that make up the Wikibase software. > It is not meant to hold the per component documentation, such as installation > instructions for the Wikibase Repository extension, which remain where they > are, and simply are referenced where applicable. > > It's still a work in progress, and you are invited to edit the site, by > sending a pull request. It's not a wiki. :( It looks really nice though and I'm glad that you can still edit it with pull requests through Github. Site looks great! Am I understanding you correctly in thinking that this site essentially serves as a promotional tool to encourage people to learn about Wikibase and what it does? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Python bot framework for wikidata
> There is https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Bots which is the > first hit on Google for me when searching for "bots wikidata". Maybe > it needs to be linked more on the site itself though. I may just be blind, but it actually doesn't look like that page mentions pywikibot anywhere. I wonder if he may have found that page, but it didn't answer all of the questions he had? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] The new Main page for Wikidata is almost ready to launch
> Well, if I had known people's desperate need to keep their > interest in the Franco-Prussian War from the NSA... ;-) There are plenty of other things that you could be using those tools for that you might want to hide from the NSA. The NSA isn't the only adversary out there either, there are certainly parts of the world where looking at the wrong things online can get you in a lot more trouble than in the US. > https works now for that tool. :D Thank you! > There are many good reasons not to trust http, but the recent > confirmation [1] that it was being actively exploited is a good one to > start with. I don't want to go too chicken little [2] since most of us > aren't going to be targeted, but I think we owe it to our users to > protect them whenever we can. Especially when the marginal work on our > end is trivial. I have personally had folks spend their time and effort to spy on me, and I'm sure that there are others in our community who have as well. I agree that we owe it to our users to provide encryption wherever possible. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] The new Main page for Wikidata is almost ready to launch
> This looks really cool! I haven't really been paying attention (sorry!), > so let me know if there's a better place to leave my feedback, or if > something has already been discussed. > > ... > * The currently featured tool doesn't support HTTPS, which is something > that would be really nice to have when this goes live. I would suggest > switching to a different tool until that can be fixed. > * I feel uncomfortable linking to Facebook/Twitter/etc. on the main page. I agree strongly on these two points. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Linking to Redirects
There was an RFC last year about linking interwiki linking to redirect pages on the various Wikipedias: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/A_need_for_a_resolut ion_regarding_article_moves_and_redirects#new_Proposal_zero Any idea what ever happened to that? Was a bug opened eventually, was there another discussion where it was decided not to do it? Is it still just a work in progress? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Access other "In Other Languages"
> You can add a babel template to your user page, see > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Sjoerddebruin#Babel ;) It was a one off thing though. I don't actually know Italian. Just in this one case I wanted to add something that happened to be in Italian. I was hoping there might be some hotkey that I just didn't happen to know about, or something similar. I'll go ahead and file a bug report to see if we can't add something below the "In Other Languages" section where you can just type in a language code to get it to show that language's fields as well on that page. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Access other "In Other Languages"
Is there a better way to get at more items in the "In Other Languages" section than to change the interface language with ?setlang= ? I had an item I wanted to give the name in Italian for (it was mentioned in the English Wikipedia article) and I discovered that the only way I could find to get access to the form field for Italian name was to change Wikidata to Italian. I didn't see anything immediately upon Googling. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] badges support on Wikidata
> Seems to me like "Guide" is equivalent to "good", and "Star" is equivalent to > "featured". "Outline" would be equivalent to "stub", but it's not clear to me > whether marking stubs is a good use case for badges. > > This raises the question - can client wikis customize the labels shown for the > badges? I assume we are currently using the respective item's label in the > respective wiki's language (yes, badges are q-items). But we might want to > accommodate the respective community's vernacular... > > Perhaps a system message could be used to override the label used for the > badge? I'm probably confused, but could we just make a Q item to represent all "Featured" type articles and then make Q items that are sub-classes of that to represent the various different venaculars? Q1: Featured Items Q2: Featured Articles (subclass Q1) Q3: Barrack Obama (instance of Q2) Q4: Guide Pages (subclass Q1) Q5: New York City (instance of Q4) Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase
Hey, So I heard on another mailing list that Commons is getting its own installation of Wikibase along with using Wikidata? Is this true, and if so, where might I find more information about it? Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata just got 10 times easier to use
> We still need to tweak it a bit here and there, yeah. We're working on > that right now. Also it will get smarter as more statements are added > to items. Even with some somewhat off suggestions this will be a wonderful tool. Thank you to everyone who worked on making this happen! This really is going to make Wikidata so much easier to use. Is there any documentation on how it chooses which entities to suggest? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
>here are my thoughts about this: > >"MAYOR OF FOO" VERSUS "MAYOR" OF "FOO" >I am in favour of a separate item for every town and village which has a mayor >or a council. >I am against have a "Mayor of Foo" item for each these. If the mayor gets an >item then the deputy mayor and the sheriff and the dog cacher should get items >too. Much better to use the 'of' qualifier. >If an administrative division has 2 councils e.g. the Senate and the Congress >in many US states then create an item for "Iowa Senate" and use the statement >"office held:Senator. of:Iowa Senate" so it keeps the same pattern. This is along the same lines that I am thinking. >NOTABILITY >My opinion is that a separate item should be created wherever this is necessary >to record statements about a concept. If there are no useful statements you >can make about it then it probably doesn't need an item. > >Example 1: The "Iowa Senate" has a foundation date, a quantity of members, a >headquarters location. "Iowa Senator" is a subclass of "Senator" and there is >not much more you can say. (Note that even on the English Wikipedia "US >Senator" is a redirect to "US Senate". Only the Occitan wikipedia has separate >items for these. See Q13217683) To make this work there will need to be a lot more qualifiers in existence. Generally though I would agree with this too. Maybe it would be worth making an RFC on-wiki about notability to ask whether or not this is the intended way to interpret it and if we can change the requirements to this? It would also be a good time to address the dissonance between what the policy says and what is standard operating procedure. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
>>> Yeah, there seem to be some cognitive dissonance going on here, it's >>> weird. >> >> Andy wants an item about himself. > > I want policy, particularly the notability policy, to be applied > consistently and honestly. > > I raised the issue of notability; not a specific item, because it > seemed apposite to the then-current discussion. (I responded to the > comment "It is even said in the notability criteria that if we can > clearly identify the concept, like with an id in some authority or > national database, then it is notable." With evidence of a counter > view being applied; it soon became clear that I'm not the only person > to have observed this. I'm not familiar with conversations on-list before I joined, but I also assumed the comment about cognitive dissonance was about the mismatch between policy and the general vibe that the community gives off about what is notable enough for inclusion. I did not see the comment as something about a specific case, but as a more general issue. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
> That's certainly what the policy says. It's not what some admins accept, > though. > > A direct quote from one, from as recently as March this year: > > * The general spirit of the notability policy is that Wikipedia > finds [the subject] notable This was also the general vibe that I had gotten that informed my understanding of notability on Wikidata before someone pointed out that policy actually says differently. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
> The "of" qualifier is (IME) currently used for cases where we don't > have "X of Y", so we use "X" of "Y" - position held: "mayor" of > "Frederick" rather than "mayor of Frederick" > > Once we have the more specific property, we can just switch over and > stop using "of" qualifiers. So would be practice be to use "Mayor" of "Frederick" or to create a new item "Mayor of Frederick" and use that instead? And if best practice is to use "Mayor of Frederick" why bother with the "of" qualifier in the first place? > The time where the query engine will be ready and fully operational > will be a great help and will ease to normalize the datas and we > will know which query are the most elegant, which models are > resonably general to limit the number of patterns used in Wikidata. > This time has not came yet imho. So at this point we just don't know which is the better way to go about this then? That is fair. For the moment I think then I'll stick with "Mayor" of "City" rather than making new items for each cities mayor. It will be relatively easy for a bot to switch those over later on if we decide the other way is best, whereas it might not be as simple the other way around. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
> When you have an item like "mayor of Pebbles minor", you can make qualifiers > like predecessor and successor, start date and end date. When every town has > the same mayor, no such functionality is possible. Start and end date are possible still as are predecessor and successor. See Q17202594 which is one of the former mayors of Frederick and has all of those qualifiers on him. Unless you meant on the city, in which case I am slowing working towards that on Q472675 as well under "head of government". Or am I misunderstanding you? > It is even said in the notability criteria that if we can clearly identify the > concept, ... Mayor office of cities are amongst these identifiable items. You've got me there. I could live with every city having a mayor item then. That still makes me wonder what the purpose of the "of" qualifier is in relation to "position held". Looking at the "position held" docs, n the example given they use: Barrack Obama -> Position Held -> United State Senator -> of -> United States Senate. This seems to be somewhat redundant information as the fact that he was "of" the United States Senate seems to be implied by the very definition of being a United States Senator. To recast it in terms of mayor, it would be like saying Mayor of Frederick in Frederick. I'm very confused now. Can anyone shed some light on what best practice should be then? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
> Good luck with your edit-a-thon today [1] and it would be awesome if you could > introduce Reasonator and Wikidata while discussing Wikipedia. I think it is > very interesting that you just discovered Magnus through Reasonator instead of > the other way around - discovering more of Magnus through his Wikipedia tools. > So few people venture outside of the text-oriented Wikipedia projects, it's > always refreshing to see someone in a public-facing capacity getting involved > in Wikidata. Thank you! The Edit-a-thon went well. I'll be putting a write-up of it on English Wikipedia and Outreach pretty soon. I really don't know many of the people who make the non-core tools. I pay attention to the talks that happen on Wikitech-l, but for some reason Magnus doesn't really stand out in my head at all if he participates there. I'm glad now that I know who that he though. I hope to help in any way that I can. @Magus, I've submitted a pull request that fixes that problem I was complaining about. Its not an ideal fix, but its good enough to satisfy me. > Hi Derrick, I think it's vain to ask yourself if some concept "deserves" an > item. It does not make much sense. There is much more value in the regularity > in how we express the same kind of data : this makes really much simpler to > develop tools and to help newbies on how to do things if we decide one way on > expressing that somebody is the mayor of somewhere and stick to it. When I said deserves, I meant it in a notability sense. Most mayor positions are not in themselves notable, so it to me doesn't make sense to have a Mayor of Frederick item if using the "of" qualifier on the "position held" property will suffice. Though that does leave a bit of irregularity because of items like "Mayor of New York City" which as a position is clearly notable. If we have the "of" qualifier, but don't use it and instead make many "Mayor of XYZ" items, we might as well remove the qualifier. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
>FYI, I maintain Reasonator, as a click on "Other/About Reasonator" would have >revealed... Oh, so it does. I have no idea how I missed that. I promise I did try to look around. >Absolutely. Do I take it that you volunteer? The code is at: > >https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator >I can add you to the codebase there, and/or make you co-maintainer on the tool. I'll volunteer at the very least I'll take a look and see if I can find what needs to be modified and then possibly submit a patch. This seems like one of those things that ought to be a pretty simple fix. No need to make me co-maintainer; I'm not looking for that kind of responsibility. >Because I sure don't have the time at the moment to fiddle with some edge >cases in a secondary component of one of my 50+ tools. Sorry if I came off rude or demanding. That was not my intention. With that many tools, I'm sure there are more important bugs. I just wanted to add this to the list. I'll take a look at the source and see if I can find where the issue is and how to fix it. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
> It does crop up in many places.. What you see is not the Reasonator per-se it > is the script used to generate a text. Compare it with the results in most > other languages, you will not see this text. That's fair. In that case the script to generate the text should be modified. > Arguably Reasonator expects a different pattern. You make him mayor.. while > Reasonator expects him to have "office held" "mayor of Frederick". Compare > Ronald Reagan where you find qualifiers for start and end date.. > > http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=9960 For a while I was actually using "Mayor of Frederick" as the position held. You can find that item as Q17167581, but I nominated it for deletion once I discovered the of qualifier. The position is itself not really noteworthy enough to merits its own item, (like President of the United States or Mayor of New York City are) and because we have the Of qualifier I said, why not use it. Where does one submit bugs for Reasonator, or is this list a good spot to do so? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Reasonator ignores of qualifier
I'm not sure who maintains Reasonator, but I figure they probably subscribe to this list. It would be really awesome if Reasonator didn't ignore the Of (P:642) qualifier in Positions Held (P:39). See: http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=17152496 It just says that Randy McClement (Q:17152496) was Mayor, even though the Wikidata item has that we was Mayor of Frederick. I'm sure there are lots of other instances where this issue comes up. Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata:List of properties/Summary table
> You might also find the new property browser helpful: > > http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-exports/miga/ > > (as mentioned before, requires one of Google Chrome, Safari, Opera, or > Android Browser to work). While an excellent list and a neat tool, it sadly isn't organised in a way that fits my needs. I just needed a simple list organised by type of object that I could refer back to in order to make sure that I don't miss properties for which I do have data. I am pleased though that your tool gives the actual name of the properties though. In some of the property proposal discussions on Wikidata the property has not actually been named the exact same name as what was proposed, which can be quite confusing when you go to use it. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Gadget
> This is already done by Wikibase. There should be a "data item" link in the > toolbox in the sidebar if the item is connected. I have no idea how I missed that. Well that should save me some time. I was about to go make a gadget to replicate that functionality. >What would also be useful, would be a "create data item" link, if no >item exists already. /\ This! Agree completely. Also is the norm for this list HTML or Text email? Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Gadget
Good morning, Does anyone know if there has been a gadget developed that adds a link to the tools section, or somewhere similar, from Wikipedia articles to their corresponding Wikidata items. Such a gadget would make it significantly easier to manually import data in Wikidata while reading Wikipedia casually. Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] Wikidata:List of properties/Summary table
Hello, I've noticed that there are a lot of script errors towards the bottom of Wikidata:List of properties/Summary table I suspect that this is caused by the same thing mentioned in this email: https://www.mail-archive.com/wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg02756.html Is there anything that can be done about this at all? This is an incredibly useful list and it's sad to only be able to see half of it. Should the page just be split? Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
