Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Antoine Isaac]

On 4/18/15 5:48 PM, Ricordisamoa wrote:

Il 11/04/2015 13:29, Antoine Isaac ha scritto:

Hi,

Is the 'template' word so bad? Paraphrasing Daniel's definition of the 
MediaWiki template, one could see a 'WikiData template' as
a set of of properties that can be re-used, e.g. to make create statements 
about a certain class. (the 'parameter' bit could be understood as adding or 
removing properties from the templates, e.g. using twice a property or adding a 
new one when it's needed).

What we're after seems to exist already, described as 'item structure':
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
Or 'list of properties':
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Works

'schema convention' matches the idea, but the wording may be too abstract. I 
come from a community that calls such things 'description set profiles'; such 
expressions have a hard time being adopted in less technical communities...


About the text values. A big +1 to Daniel at not trying to represent 
semi-structured text, which is meant to piggyback structured data in legacy 
systems that can't handle it. The matter is rather the availability in Wikidata 
of text-like summaries like the dbpedia-owl:abstract at 
http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle . Having things like this together with the 
Wikidata data would be great for data-reusers like us, instead of having to 
fetch it from elsewhere!


There's TextExtracts  for that: example 





Thanks!
Unfortunately this is not in the data itself. One has to know that there is an 
API, and then call it.

Actually there seems to be such similar 'description' in the data at wikidata:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q23413 says "type of fortified structure built in 
Europe and the Middle East during the Middle Ages by nobility"
It matches partly the rdfs:comment at http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle and the 
output of the TextExtract.
It's a bit mysterious why it's not been exactly entered as on the Wikipedia 
page (and thus DBpedia) but well, I guess it meets the original question: while 
the Wikidata page doesn't say it's a statement, it is accessible through the 
API and the SPARQL endpoint(s).

Best,

Antoine

 


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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Ricordisamoa]

Il 11/04/2015 13:29, Antoine Isaac ha scritto:

Hi,

Is the 'template' word so bad? Paraphrasing Daniel's definition of the 
MediaWiki template, one could see a 'WikiData template' as
a set of of properties that can be re-used, e.g. to make create 
statements about a certain class. (the 'parameter' bit could be 
understood as adding or removing properties from the templates, e.g. 
using twice a property or adding a new one when it's needed).


What we're after seems to exist already, described as 'item structure':
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure 


Or 'list of properties':
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Works

'schema convention' matches the idea, but the wording may be too 
abstract. I come from a community that calls such things 'description 
set profiles'; such expressions have a hard time being adopted in less 
technical communities...



About the text values. A big +1 to Daniel at not trying to represent 
semi-structured text, which is meant to piggyback structured data in 
legacy systems that can't handle it. The matter is rather the 
availability in Wikidata of text-like summaries like the 
dbpedia-owl:abstract at http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle . Having things 
like this together with the Wikidata data would be great for 
data-reusers like us, instead of having to fetch it from elsewhere!


There's TextExtracts 
 for that: 
example 





Antoine  ---
Antoine Isaac
R&D Manager, Europeana.eu
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Valentine Charles, 07/04/2015 15:21:

What I mean is that it would be good to have list of properties that can
be used for a given thing.


Autocompletion often guesses well, but you can set a non-mandatory 
constraint: 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Category:Properties_with_constraints
Really, in this thread I still have no idea what problem you're trying 
to solve in the first place. :) Could you make a specific example and 
what you're finding hard to do?


Nemo

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Antoine Isaac]

Hi,

Is the 'template' word so bad? Paraphrasing Daniel's definition of the 
MediaWiki template, one could see a 'WikiData template' as
a set of of properties that can be re-used, e.g. to make create statements 
about a certain class. (the 'parameter' bit could be understood as adding or 
removing properties from the templates, e.g. using twice a property or adding a 
new one when it's needed).

What we're after seems to exist already, described as 'item structure':
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
Or 'list of properties':
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Works

'schema convention' matches the idea, but the wording may be too abstract. I 
come from a community that calls such things 'description set profiles'; such 
expressions have a hard time being adopted in less technical communities...


About the text values. A big +1 to Daniel at not trying to represent 
semi-structured text, which is meant to piggyback structured data in legacy 
systems that can't handle it. The matter is rather the availability in Wikidata 
of text-like summaries like the dbpedia-owl:abstract at 
http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle . Having things like this together with the 
Wikidata data would be great for data-reusers like us, instead of having to 
fetch it from elsewhere!

Antoine  
---

Antoine Isaac
R&D Manager, Europeana.eu

On 4/7/15 3:21 PM, Valentine Charles wrote:

Hello,

Yes I might not use the right term here especially if you use it already in a 
different context. What I mean is that it would be good to have list of 
properties that can be used for a given thing. For instance if you want to 
describe a painting here the list of properties you can use.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings points 
to a page listing some properties that can be used for painting but not all of 
them.

Best,
Valentine

2015-04-07 15:15 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler mailto:daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de>>:


I'm confused by your use of the term "template" here. In the context of
MediaWiki, "template" refers to a bit of wikitext that can be parametrized 
and
re-used, e.g. to make info-boxes.

If I understand correctly, what you mean is a kind of schema saying which
properties can and should be present on items of which type. The Wikibase
software has no concept of such schemas, on Wikidata such schemas are 
defined
and enforced by convention only.

For the sake of clarity, I suggest to use the term "schema convention" for 
this,
to avoid confusion with wikitext templates.

Am 07.04.2015 um 13:12 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> Hello,
>
> I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance 
Painting
> (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with the 
Europeana
> Data Model.
> My initial thought that I would find a representative list
> 
athttp://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
> but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with 
painting.
> So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the template
> mentioned above with the additional properties.
> I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
> representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type 
of
> objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it with 
their
> own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on behalf of
> Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate the
> discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Best wishes,
> Valentine
>
> 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev mailto:smalys...@wikimedia.org>
 > >>:
>
> Hi!
>
> > For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a 
monolongual
> > (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. 
"quote" already
> > exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. 
Length
> > limitations can be adjusted if need be.
>
> Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
> type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts 
of
> non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
> OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
> with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
> quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
> brainstorming here :)
>
> > What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields 
for
> > semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often 
seen in GLAM
> > meta-data. That kind o

Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Ricordisamoa]

Il 04/04/2015 23:45, Stas Malyshev ha scritto:

Hi!


For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a monolongual
(or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote" already
exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
limitations can be adjusted if need be.

Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
brainstorming here :)


Structured Wikiquote 






What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in GLAM
meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? Etc.



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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Ricordisamoa]

Il 07/04/2015 15:21, Valentine Charles ha scritto:

Hello,

Yes I might not use the right term here especially if you use it 
already in a different context. What I mean is that it would be good 
to have list of properties that can be used for a given thing. For 
instance if you want to describe a painting here the list of 
properties you can use.


User:Magnus Manske/missing props.js 
 has 
some lists for that (look for "Potential properties").


https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings points 
to a page listing some properties that can be used for painting but 
not all of them.


Best,
Valentine
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Jane Darnell]

Well probably not, as it is an ongoing project. You can post questions
there however on the talk page that are more likely to generate useful
answers for you than this list. Most Wikidatans involved there don't speak
English as a first language and I don't think they are frequent readers of
this mailing list. For specific questions on properties for paintings, I
believe you can best look at the Wikidata items for the Mona Lisa and
Vermeer's "Milkmaid" aka "The Yellow Kitchenmaid"

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Valentine Charles 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Yes I might not use the right term here especially if you use it already
> in a different context. What I mean is that it would be good to have list
> of properties that can be used for a given thing. For instance if you want
> to describe a painting here the list of properties you can use.
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings points
> to a page listing some properties that can be used for painting but not all
> of them.
>
> Best,
> Valentine
>
> 2015-04-07 15:15 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler :
>
>>
>> I'm confused by your use of the term "template" here. In the context of
>> MediaWiki, "template" refers to a bit of wikitext that can be
>> parametrized and
>> re-used, e.g. to make info-boxes.
>>
>> If I understand correctly, what you mean is a kind of schema saying which
>> properties can and should be present on items of which type. The Wikibase
>> software has no concept of such schemas, on Wikidata such schemas are
>> defined
>> and enforced by convention only.
>>
>> For the sake of clarity, I suggest to use the term "schema convention"
>> for this,
>> to avoid confusion with wikitext templates.
>>
>> Am 07.04.2015 um 13:12 schrieb Valentine Charles:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance
>> Painting
>> > (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with the
>> Europeana
>> > Data Model.
>> > My initial thought that I would find a representative list
>> > at
>> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
>> > but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with
>> painting.
>> > So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the
>> template
>> > mentioned above with the additional properties.
>> > I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
>> > representative templates listing all the properties used for a given
>> type of
>> > objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it
>> with their
>> > own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on behalf of
>> > Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate the
>> > discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> > Valentine
>> >
>> > 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev > > >:
>> >
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > > For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long,
>> a monolongual
>> > > (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used.
>> "quote" already
>> > > exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion.
>> Length
>> > > limitations can be adjusted if need be.
>> >
>> > Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
>> > type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing
>> texts of
>> > non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
>> > OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
>> > with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
>> > quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
>> > brainstorming here :)
>> >
>> > > What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text
>> fields for
>> > > semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often
>> seen in GLAM
>> > > meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
>> >
>> > Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of
>> text
>> > we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
>> > cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote,
>> right? Etc.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Stas Malyshev
>> > smalys...@wikimedia.org 
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikidata-l mailing list
>> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikidata-l mailing list
>> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Kinzler
>> Senior Software Developer
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland
>> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>>
>> _

Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Valentine Charles]

Hello,

Yes I might not use the right term here especially if you use it already in
a different context. What I mean is that it would be good to have list of
properties that can be used for a given thing. For instance if you want to
describe a painting here the list of properties you can use.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings points
to a page listing some properties that can be used for painting but not all
of them.

Best,
Valentine

2015-04-07 15:15 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler :

>
> I'm confused by your use of the term "template" here. In the context of
> MediaWiki, "template" refers to a bit of wikitext that can be parametrized
> and
> re-used, e.g. to make info-boxes.
>
> If I understand correctly, what you mean is a kind of schema saying which
> properties can and should be present on items of which type. The Wikibase
> software has no concept of such schemas, on Wikidata such schemas are
> defined
> and enforced by convention only.
>
> For the sake of clarity, I suggest to use the term "schema convention" for
> this,
> to avoid confusion with wikitext templates.
>
> Am 07.04.2015 um 13:12 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance
> Painting
> > (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with the
> Europeana
> > Data Model.
> > My initial thought that I would find a representative list
> > at
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
> > but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with
> painting.
> > So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the template
> > mentioned above with the additional properties.
> > I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
> > representative templates listing all the properties used for a given
> type of
> > objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it
> with their
> > own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on behalf of
> > Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate the
> > discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Valentine
> >
> > 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev  > >:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > > For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
> monolongual
> > > (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used.
> "quote" already
> > > exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion.
> Length
> > > limitations can be adjusted if need be.
> >
> > Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
> > type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts
> of
> > non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
> > OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
> > with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
> > quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
> > brainstorming here :)
> >
> > > What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields
> for
> > > semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often
> seen in GLAM
> > > meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
> >
> > Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of
> text
> > we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
> > cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote,
> right? Etc.
> >
> > --
> > Stas Malyshev
> > smalys...@wikimedia.org 
> >
> > ___
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org  Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Daniel Kinzler
> Senior Software Developer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Daniel Kinzler]

I'm confused by your use of the term "template" here. In the context of
MediaWiki, "template" refers to a bit of wikitext that can be parametrized and
re-used, e.g. to make info-boxes.

If I understand correctly, what you mean is a kind of schema saying which
properties can and should be present on items of which type. The Wikibase
software has no concept of such schemas, on Wikidata such schemas are defined
and enforced by convention only.

For the sake of clarity, I suggest to use the term "schema convention" for this,
to avoid confusion with wikitext templates.

Am 07.04.2015 um 13:12 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> Hello, 
> 
> I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance 
> Painting
> (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with the 
> Europeana
> Data Model. 
> My initial thought that I would find a representative list
> at 
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
> but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with 
> painting.
> So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the template
> mentioned above with the additional properties.
> I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
> representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type of
> objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it with 
> their
> own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on behalf of
> Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate the
> discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata. 
> 
> What do you think? 
> 
> Best wishes, 
> Valentine 
> 
> 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev  >:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> > For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a 
> monolongual
> > (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote" 
> already
> > exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
> > limitations can be adjusted if need be.
> 
> Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
> type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
> non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
> OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
> with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
> quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
> brainstorming here :)
> 
> > What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
> > semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in 
> GLAM
> > meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
> 
> Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
> we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
> cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? 
> Etc.
> 
> --
> Stas Malyshev
> smalys...@wikimedia.org 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 


-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Jane Darnell]

For paintings you can better look here:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Valentine Charles 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance
> Painting (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping
> with the Europeana Data Model.
> My initial thought that I would find a representative list at
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
> but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with
> painting. So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the
> template mentioned above with the additional properties.
> I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
> representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type
> of objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it
> with their own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on
> behalf of Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate
> the discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Best wishes,
> Valentine
>
> 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev :
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> > For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
>> monolongual
>> > (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote"
>> already
>> > exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
>> > limitations can be adjusted if need be.
>>
>> Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
>> type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
>> non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
>> OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
>> with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
>> quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
>> brainstorming here :)
>>
>> > What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
>> > semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in
>> GLAM
>> > meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
>>
>> Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
>> we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
>> cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right?
>> Etc.
>>
>> --
>> Stas Malyshev
>> smalys...@wikimedia.org
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Valentine Charles]

Hello,

I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance
Painting (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with
the Europeana Data Model.
My initial thought that I would find a representative list at
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with
painting. So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the
template mentioned above with the additional properties.
I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type
of objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it
with their own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on
behalf of Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate
the discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.

What do you think?

Best wishes,
Valentine

2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev :

> Hi!
>
> > For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
> monolongual
> > (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote"
> already
> > exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
> > limitations can be adjusted if need be.
>
> Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
> type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
> non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
> OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
> with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
> quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
> brainstorming here :)
>
> > What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
> > semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in
> GLAM
> > meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
>
> Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
> we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
> cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? Etc.
>
> --
> Stas Malyshev
> smalys...@wikimedia.org
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Stas Malyshev]

Hi!

> For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a monolongual
> (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote" already
> exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
> limitations can be adjusted if need be.

Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
brainstorming here :)

> What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
> semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in GLAM
> meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? Etc.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Joe Filceolaire]

I think there is a case for including this structured data disguised as
text but it should go in the reference for a statement
On 4 Apr 2015 18:07, "Daniel Kinzler"  wrote:

> For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
> monolongual
> (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote"
> already
> exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
> limitations can be adjusted if need be.
>
> What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
> semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in
> GLAM
> meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
>
> Am 04.04.2015 um 14:41 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Coming back on my previous email, I do indeed understand that Wikidata
> wants
> > structured data as much as possible. But you might have free-text
> information
> > that might not fit in a given property or even have meaning only as a
> free -text
> > description (abstract, quotes..).GLAM's are for instance very keen on
> using
> > DBpedia because of some long free-text descriptions that are more
> readable and
> > friendly than "dry" metadata for users applications. I guess GLAMs will
> continue
> > to use DBpedia for this purpose if Wikidata doesn't offer it.
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Kinzler
> Senior Software Developer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Ricordisamoa]

Il 02/04/2015 13:51, Daniel Kinzler ha scritto:

Am 02.04.2015 um 09:03 schrieb Valentine Charles:

Regarding the dimensions, it is great to know that it is on your plate. I was
wondering is there a place where we can see the classes/properties that are in
the pipeline and participate to discussions around them?

Note however that for dimensions, the issue is not creating the property, but
teaching the software about units, so that such a property would make sense. A
*lot* of properties are waiting for unit support: length, height, speed,
distance, and many more are blocked on units.



See Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending/2 
 for 
a list.
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Daniel Kinzler]

For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a monolongual
(or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. "quote" already
exists, "abstract" could be added, pending community discussion. Length
limitations can be adjusted if need be.

What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in GLAM
meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

Am 04.04.2015 um 14:41 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> Hello, 
> 
> Coming back on my previous email, I do indeed understand that Wikidata wants
> structured data as much as possible. But you might have free-text information
> that might not fit in a given property or even have meaning only as a free 
> -text
> description (abstract, quotes..).GLAM's are for instance very keen on using
> DBpedia because of some long free-text descriptions that are more readable and
> friendly than "dry" metadata for users applications. I guess GLAMs will 
> continue
> to use DBpedia for this purpose if Wikidata doesn't offer it. 



-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Valentine Charles]

Hello,

Coming back on my previous email, I do indeed understand that Wikidata
wants structured data as much as possible. But you might have free-text
information that might not fit in a given property or even have meaning
only as a free -text description (abstract, quotes..).GLAM's are for
instance very keen on using DBpedia because of some long free-text
descriptions that are more readable and friendly than "dry" metadata for
users applications. I guess GLAMs will continue to use DBpedia for this
purpose if Wikidata doesn't offer it.

Best,
Valentine

2015-04-01 23:51 GMT+02:00 Andrew Gray :

> Hi Valentine,
>
> The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
> Wikipedia ;-)
>
> There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
> description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
> identifying/disambiguating note: "1887 self-portrait by XYZ"; "Danish
> artist and historian, 1912-1974", etc.
>
> Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.
>
> Andrew.
>
> On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles 
> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
> projects
> > you have mentioned in your emails.
> > In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
> > paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
> > with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
> > absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
> > overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
> >
> > -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
> where
> > you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
> property
> > but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
> > property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
> > something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
> > exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
> >
> > -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
> of
> > information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
> information is
> > most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
> Wikidata
> > is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
> >
> > -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
> given
> > property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
> > xml:lang attribute or something similar?
> >
> > Thank you very much for your help
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Valentine
> >
> > ___
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Jane Darnell]

The more I think about this issue, the more I think we need a separate
animal altogether that sits between Wikidata and Wikipedia (or alongside it
somehow) and that is a quick-ref "simple mobile version" that acts as a
go-between to image data on Commons (or any other WM project). Right now
Wikipedia is still the main gateway for all related projects even though
you can link those WM projects as extra "sitelinks" on the Wikidata item.
We have seen with the problems regarding the label for the mobile interface
that the current label falls short of what it needs to do, and the
Wikipedia first sentence or paragraph is often not a viable option (too
"chatty")

I am very satisified with all of the UI changes that Wikidata has
implemented so far, but I don't think we should make Wikidata the
definitive UI for mobile traffic, or for external websites. As more and
more websites (such as GLAM's) link out to Wikipedia, we should offer them
a way to tap into the wealth of info on Wikidata, especially since Wikidata
is all about long-tail subjects at a higher granularity of precision, which
is the same segment of information dissemination where most GLAMs reside.

It could be a "Reasonator on steroids"

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Andrew Gray 
wrote:

> Hi Valentine,
>
> The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
> Wikipedia ;-)
>
> There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
> description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
> identifying/disambiguating note: "1887 self-portrait by XYZ"; "Danish
> artist and historian, 1912-1974", etc.
>
> Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.
>
> Andrew.
>
> On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles 
> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
> projects
> > you have mentioned in your emails.
> > In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
> > paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
> > with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
> > absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
> > overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
> >
> > -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
> where
> > you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
> property
> > but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
> > property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
> > something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
> > exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
> >
> > -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
> of
> > information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
> information is
> > most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
> Wikidata
> > is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
> >
> > -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
> given
> > property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
> > xml:lang attribute or something similar?
> >
> > Thank you very much for your help
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Valentine
> >
> > ___
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 02.04.2015 um 09:03 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> Regarding the dimensions, it is great to know that it is on your plate. I was
> wondering is there a place where we can see the classes/properties that are in
> the pipeline and participate to discussions around them? 

Note however that for dimensions, the issue is not creating the property, but
teaching the software about units, so that such a property would make sense. A
*lot* of properties are waiting for unit support: length, height, speed,
distance, and many more are blocked on units.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Thomas Douillard]

Hi, the place to discuss property proposal is
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal and its subpages.
We might need more people involved in this area.

Classes are regular items in wikidata and as such can be freely create.
They are, as regular items, subject to the notability policy :
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability to look at before
creating items. Every article in WIkipedias can potentially be a class
then, which means wa have a fair amount of preexistant classes ready to be
used :)

2015-04-02 9:03 GMT+02:00 Valentine Charles :

> Dear all,
>
> Thank you for your answers.
> I do understand indeed that the purpose if Wikidata is to have structured
> data but coming from the GLAMs sector I was wondering how our data could
> look like in Wikidata.
> In fact it could be an interesting exercise to evaluate from the generic
> description how much information could have been structured in a dedicated
> property. This would be valid for Wikidata but also all the data standards
> including the Europeana Data Model.
> Regarding the dimensions, it is great to know that it is on your plate. I
> was wondering is there a place where we can see the classes/properties that
> are in the pipeline and participate to discussions around them?
>
>
> Best,
> Valentine
>
>
>
> 2015-04-01 23:51 GMT+02:00 Andrew Gray :
>
>> Hi Valentine,
>>
>> The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
>> Wikipedia ;-)
>>
>> There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
>> description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
>> identifying/disambiguating note: "1887 self-portrait by XYZ"; "Danish
>> artist and historian, 1912-1974", etc.
>>
>> Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.
>>
>> Andrew.
>>
>> On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles 
>> wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
>> projects
>> > you have mentioned in your emails.
>> > In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
>> > paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing
>> it
>> > with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
>> > absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
>> > overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
>> >
>> > -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
>> where
>> > you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
>> property
>> > but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
>> > property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
>> > something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
>> > exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
>> >
>> > -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the
>> absence of
>> > information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
>> information is
>> > most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
>> Wikidata
>> > is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
>> >
>> > -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
>> given
>> > property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
>> > xml:lang attribute or something similar?
>> >
>> > Thank you very much for your help
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Valentine
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikidata-l mailing list
>> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Andrew Gray
>>   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
I do not follow ... A quote is exactly that ... it is not a place where
things that do not fit neatly are to be dumped.

What you need to consider is what the value is of mono-lingual text.. A
motto as used on a shield makes sense.. a quote maybe, the original name of
something surely... but beyond that ...

Thanks,
 GerardM

On 1 April 2015 at 22:45, Joe Filceolaire  wrote:

> We do have the "Quote" property (P1683) which has monolingual text
> datatype. You could certainly put free text in the value for this property
> and add this to a reference or even use it as a qualifier.
>
> Joe
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Daniel Kinzler <
> daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 01.04.2015 um 09:20 schrieb Valentine Charles:
>> > -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
>> where you
>> > will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
>> property but
>> > inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
>> property in
>> > Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it something you
>> are
>> > planning to introduce or have you made the decision to exclude any
>> free-text
>> > infromation from Wikidata for now.
>>
>> Free-form text is not machine-readable. Coding semi-structured
>> information is
>> very common in archives etc, but makes the data very hard to export,
>> transform,
>> and query. Free text fields should be used only for things that are
>> actually
>> text, such as a state motto.
>>
>> I think the need to encode things in free-form fields arose mostly from
>> overly
>> rigid data schemas. If there's no dedicated field for something, just
>> stuff the
>> info into the text field. Such fields turn into kitchen sinks that
>> contain a
>> hodge podge of different kinds of information.
>>
>> With Wikidata, there should be no need for this, since you can just
>> create and
>> use any properties you might be missing. That does mean though that wile
>> importing, you have to somehow extract the relevant information from the
>> free
>> text. That effort has to be done at some point, if the data is to become
>> machine
>> readable.
>>
>> > -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the
>> absence of
>> > information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
>> information is
>> > most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
>> Wikidata is
>> > interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
>>
>> We don't support units of measurement yet, and without these, it's not
>> really
>> possible to give the dimension. We hope to finally change this over the
>> next
>> couple of months.
>>
>> > -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
>> given
>> > property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
>> xml:lang
>> > attribute or something similar?
>>
>> xml:lang would be used in the XML/RDF export (and lang in the HTML
>> rendering).
>> Internally, the language would be a string associated with the "language"
>> key in
>> a JSON structure. But neither fact is really relevant to the data model
>> on an
>> abstract level.
>>
>> Most properties (most data types) are language agnostic. Quantities,
>> strings,
>> time values, etc, do not have any notion of language. The only datatype
>> for
>> properties that supports a language code is "monolingual text" (a pair of
>> language code + text). This data type is used sparingly, since usually,
>> the need
>> for internationalized naming and description is covered by the labels,
>> descriptions, and aliases associated with a data item.
>>
>> Labels, descriptions, and aliases are not "properties" about which
>> (sourced)
>> statements would be made in the context of the data item. Instead, they
>> are
>> editorial attributes. They are fully internationalized, and intended to
>> enable
>> display, disambiguation, and search in as many languages as possible.
>>
>> For example, Q219831 has labels (and descriptions) in many languages:
>> * nl: De Nachtwacht  (schilderij van Rembrandt van Rijn)
>> * de: Die Nachtwache  (Gemälde von Rembrandt)
>> * en: The Night Watch  (painting by Rembrandt van Rijn)
>> * ru: Ночной дозор  (картина)
>>
>> So, when the painting is referenced elsewhere, a label (and description)
>> can be
>> shown in the user's language. Internationalized statements/properties are
>> rarely
>> needed.
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Kinzler
>> Senior Software Developer
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland
>> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Valentine Charles]

Dear all,

Thank you for your answers.
I do understand indeed that the purpose if Wikidata is to have structured
data but coming from the GLAMs sector I was wondering how our data could
look like in Wikidata.
In fact it could be an interesting exercise to evaluate from the generic
description how much information could have been structured in a dedicated
property. This would be valid for Wikidata but also all the data standards
including the Europeana Data Model.
Regarding the dimensions, it is great to know that it is on your plate. I
was wondering is there a place where we can see the classes/properties that
are in the pipeline and participate to discussions around them?


Best,
Valentine



2015-04-01 23:51 GMT+02:00 Andrew Gray :

> Hi Valentine,
>
> The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
> Wikipedia ;-)
>
> There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
> description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
> identifying/disambiguating note: "1887 self-portrait by XYZ"; "Danish
> artist and historian, 1912-1974", etc.
>
> Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.
>
> Andrew.
>
> On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles 
> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
> projects
> > you have mentioned in your emails.
> > In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
> > paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
> > with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
> > absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
> > overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
> >
> > -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
> where
> > you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
> property
> > but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
> > property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
> > something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
> > exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
> >
> > -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
> of
> > information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
> information is
> > most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
> Wikidata
> > is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
> >
> > -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
> given
> > property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
> > xml:lang attribute or something similar?
> >
> > Thank you very much for your help
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Valentine
> >
> > ___
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Andrew Gray]

Hi Valentine,

The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
Wikipedia ;-)

There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
identifying/disambiguating note: "1887 self-portrait by XYZ"; "Danish
artist and historian, 1912-1974", etc.

Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.

Andrew.

On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles  wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different projects
> you have mentioned in your emails.
> In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
> paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
> with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
> absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
> overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
>
> -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property where
> you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured property
> but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
> property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
> something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
> exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
>
> -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence of
> information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The information is
> most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something Wikidata
> is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
>
> -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a given
> property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
> xml:lang attribute or something similar?
>
> Thank you very much for your help
>
> Best,
>
> Valentine
>
> ___
> Wikidata-l mailing list
> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>



-- 
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Joe Filceolaire]

We do have the "Quote" property (P1683) which has monolingual text
datatype. You could certainly put free text in the value for this property
and add this to a reference or even use it as a qualifier.

Joe

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Daniel Kinzler 
wrote:

> Am 01.04.2015 um 09:20 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> > -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
> where you
> > will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured property
> but
> > inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
> property in
> > Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it something you
> are
> > planning to introduce or have you made the decision to exclude any
> free-text
> > infromation from Wikidata for now.
>
> Free-form text is not machine-readable. Coding semi-structured information
> is
> very common in archives etc, but makes the data very hard to export,
> transform,
> and query. Free text fields should be used only for things that are
> actually
> text, such as a state motto.
>
> I think the need to encode things in free-form fields arose mostly from
> overly
> rigid data schemas. If there's no dedicated field for something, just
> stuff the
> info into the text field. Such fields turn into kitchen sinks that contain
> a
> hodge podge of different kinds of information.
>
> With Wikidata, there should be no need for this, since you can just create
> and
> use any properties you might be missing. That does mean though that wile
> importing, you have to somehow extract the relevant information from the
> free
> text. That effort has to be done at some point, if the data is to become
> machine
> readable.
>
> > -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
> of
> > information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
> information is
> > most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
> Wikidata is
> > interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
>
> We don't support units of measurement yet, and without these, it's not
> really
> possible to give the dimension. We hope to finally change this over the
> next
> couple of months.
>
> > -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
> given
> > property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
> xml:lang
> > attribute or something similar?
>
> xml:lang would be used in the XML/RDF export (and lang in the HTML
> rendering).
> Internally, the language would be a string associated with the "language"
> key in
> a JSON structure. But neither fact is really relevant to the data model on
> an
> abstract level.
>
> Most properties (most data types) are language agnostic. Quantities,
> strings,
> time values, etc, do not have any notion of language. The only datatype for
> properties that supports a language code is "monolingual text" (a pair of
> language code + text). This data type is used sparingly, since usually,
> the need
> for internationalized naming and description is covered by the labels,
> descriptions, and aliases associated with a data item.
>
> Labels, descriptions, and aliases are not "properties" about which
> (sourced)
> statements would be made in the context of the data item. Instead, they are
> editorial attributes. They are fully internationalized, and intended to
> enable
> display, disambiguation, and search in as many languages as possible.
>
> For example, Q219831 has labels (and descriptions) in many languages:
> * nl: De Nachtwacht  (schilderij van Rembrandt van Rijn)
> * de: Die Nachtwache  (Gemälde von Rembrandt)
> * en: The Night Watch  (painting by Rembrandt van Rijn)
> * ru: Ночной дозор  (картина)
>
> So, when the painting is referenced elsewhere, a label (and description)
> can be
> shown in the user's language. Internationalized statements/properties are
> rarely
> needed.
>
> --
> Daniel Kinzler
> Senior Software Developer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 01.04.2015 um 09:20 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property where you
> will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured property but
> inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar property in
> Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it something you are
> planning to introduce or have you made the decision to exclude any free-text
> infromation from Wikidata for now. 

Free-form text is not machine-readable. Coding semi-structured information is
very common in archives etc, but makes the data very hard to export, transform,
and query. Free text fields should be used only for things that are actually
text, such as a state motto.

I think the need to encode things in free-form fields arose mostly from overly
rigid data schemas. If there's no dedicated field for something, just stuff the
info into the text field. Such fields turn into kitchen sinks that contain a
hodge podge of different kinds of information.

With Wikidata, there should be no need for this, since you can just create and
use any properties you might be missing. That does mean though that wile
importing, you have to somehow extract the relevant information from the free
text. That effort has to be done at some point, if the data is to become machine
readable.

> -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence of
> information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The information is
> most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something Wikidata 
> is
> interested in or has it been omitted intentionally? 

We don't support units of measurement yet, and without these, it's not really
possible to give the dimension. We hope to finally change this over the next
couple of months.

> -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a given
> property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a 
> xml:lang
> attribute or something similar? 

xml:lang would be used in the XML/RDF export (and lang in the HTML rendering).
Internally, the language would be a string associated with the "language" key in
a JSON structure. But neither fact is really relevant to the data model on an
abstract level.

Most properties (most data types) are language agnostic. Quantities, strings,
time values, etc, do not have any notion of language. The only datatype for
properties that supports a language code is "monolingual text" (a pair of
language code + text). This data type is used sparingly, since usually, the need
for internationalized naming and description is covered by the labels,
descriptions, and aliases associated with a data item.

Labels, descriptions, and aliases are not "properties" about which (sourced)
statements would be made in the context of the data item. Instead, they are
editorial attributes. They are fully internationalized, and intended to enable
display, disambiguation, and search in as many languages as possible.

For example, Q219831 has labels (and descriptions) in many languages:
* nl: De Nachtwacht  (schilderij van Rembrandt van Rijn)
* de: Die Nachtwache  (Gemälde von Rembrandt)
* en: The Night Watch  (painting by Rembrandt van Rijn)
* ru: Ночной дозор  (картина)

So, when the painting is referenced elsewhere, a label (and description) can be
shown in the user's language. Internationalized statements/properties are rarely
needed.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data Templates

[Daniel Kinzler]

Hi Valentine!

I think the Authority Control project would be of interest to you:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Authority_control

Am 27.03.2015 um 16:18 schrieb Valentine Charles:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Europeana.eu is interested in using Wikidata. At the moment, we are trying to
> make a correspondence between the data structures in Wikidata and our data 
> model
> EDM [1] for digitized cultural collections.
> 
> We started by looking at the general Wikidata project page [2] and found that
> the following projects and related property list pages could be a starting 
> point
> for our work:
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts
> ,
>  http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Books
> ,http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Periodicals
> .
> 
> Next to cultural items, we are also looking at persons, organizations, places,
> subjects, events and the abstract notion of work for enriching our data beyond
> the original description that is provided to us. For this we found
> the http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Infoboxes
> 
>  a
> good starting point since it gathers all of them, and
> also http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Years_WikiProject
> 
>  for
> simple dates.
> 
> We would appreciate if you could help us on finding other wikidata projects 
> that
> we would have missed, or any other work that could be relevant for us!
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> [1] _http://__pro.europeana.eu/edm-documentation
> _
> [2] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProjects
> 
> 
> 
> Valentine 
> Data R&D coordinator at Europeana Foundation 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 


-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data Templates

[Thomas Douillard]

Hi, for France I'm also aware of the historical monuments project, that
might be interesting for you:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_France/Monuments_historiques

2015-03-28 0:12 GMT+01:00 Daniel Mietchen :

> Hi Valentine,
>
> I think the following projects would also fall within the scope of your
> search:
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research
> The latter wrote a H2020 proposal in which Europeana is a partner:
> *
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research/EINFRA-9-2015
> .
>
> Cheers,
>
> Daniel
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Valentine Charles
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Europeana.eu is interested in using Wikidata. At the moment, we are
> trying
> > to make a correspondence between the data structures in Wikidata and our
> > data model EDM [1] for digitized cultural collections.
> >
> > We started by looking at the general Wikidata project page [2] and found
> > that the following projects and related property list pages could be a
> > starting point for our work:
> > http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts,
> >
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Books,http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Periodicals
> .
> >
> > Next to cultural items, we are also looking at persons, organizations,
> > places, subjects, events and the abstract notion of work for enriching
> our
> > data beyond the original description that is provided to us. For this we
> > found the http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Infoboxes a
> good
> > starting point since it gathers all of them, and also
> > http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Years_WikiProject for simple
> dates.
> >
> > We would appreciate if you could help us on finding other wikidata
> projects
> > that we would have missed, or any other work that could be relevant for
> us!
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > [1] http://pro.europeana.eu/edm-documentation
> > [2] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProjects
> >
> >
> > Valentine
> > Data R&D coordinator at Europeana Foundation
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data Templates

[Daniel Mietchen]

Hi Valentine,

I think the following projects would also fall within the scope of your search:
* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData
* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings
* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research
The latter wrote a H2020 proposal in which Europeana is a partner:
* 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research/EINFRA-9-2015
.

Cheers,

Daniel


On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Valentine Charles
 wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Europeana.eu is interested in using Wikidata. At the moment, we are trying
> to make a correspondence between the data structures in Wikidata and our
> data model EDM [1] for digitized cultural collections.
>
> We started by looking at the general Wikidata project page [2] and found
> that the following projects and related property list pages could be a
> starting point for our work:
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts,
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Books,http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Periodicals.
>
> Next to cultural items, we are also looking at persons, organizations,
> places, subjects, events and the abstract notion of work for enriching our
> data beyond the original description that is provided to us. For this we
> found the http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Infoboxes a good
> starting point since it gathers all of them, and also
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Years_WikiProject for simple dates.
>
> We would appreciate if you could help us on finding other wikidata projects
> that we would have missed, or any other work that could be relevant for us!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> [1] http://pro.europeana.eu/edm-documentation
> [2] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProjects
>
>
> Valentine
> Data R&D coordinator at Europeana Foundation
>
>
> ___
> Wikidata-l mailing list
> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>

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