[Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same person who deleted all the photos so far: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind of behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably more personal views... The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Itzik https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense Forces. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they were taken. There is no reasonable doubt about that. In addition, publication is not a requirement for being in the public domain in Israel. After I restored these images, I was threatem by LGA, who is a delete-only account: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#User:Yann There, more contributors argue on this issue. By asking absurb requirements about publication details, these contributors threaten the project as a whole. If insisting, it will lead people to upload pictures like these locally instead of Commons. Then the idea of a central repository for all Wikimedia projects is gone. Instead of looking for a reason to destroy these files, they should try to find a reason to keep them. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Well I am not an admin, but as on all other projects, you must play by the rules. I noticed the deletion notice for your letter claimed it was a derivative work, implying that the file was uploaded as artwork. It either included a logo letterhead that has not previously been uploaded (see [1]) or it needed the PD-text license (see [2]) instead of whatever the default uploader slaps on (probably own work). [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Logos_of_governments_and_government_agencies [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-text On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il wrote: The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same person who deleted all the photos so far: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind of behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably more personal views... The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Itzik https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense Forces. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they were taken. There is no reasonable doubt about that. In addition, publication is not a requirement for being in the public domain in Israel. After I restored these images, I was threatem by LGA, who is a delete-only account: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#User:Yann There, more contributors argue on this issue. By asking absurb requirements about publication details, these contributors threaten the project as a whole. If insisting, it will lead people to upload pictures like these locally instead of Commons. Then the idea of a central repository for all Wikimedia projects is gone. Instead of looking for a reason to destroy these files, they should try to find a reason to keep them. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
On 22 June 2014 08:30, Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il wrote: The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos No it doesn't. It simply restates how the law works within Israel. Which we already know. What we need is a statement that says that they regard the copyright expiration on government works (private works are a secondary problem) to be global. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Rethinking Commons paradigms with Wikidata // was The tragedy of Commons
An example of a crowd-sourced tagger: http://tagger.thepcf.org.uk/tutorial/ Something similar could be thought for Commons if the property depicts were available. On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 7:48 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Which btw is open source http://levan.cs.washington.edu/ngrams/README.txt On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 7:42 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: And all this about structured data gets even more interesting when you combine it with machine learning, like in LEVAN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg4As_JLR84 http://levan.cs.washington.edu/?state=fetchNGramsconcept=apple -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli Government may still have some copyright protections. So while the contents of the letter are nice, they don't address the problem. It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might still exist under a very free licence like CC-0. That way even if URAA or some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright, they're usable by anyone. This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic Commons admin that the images are indeed free. Cheers, Craig On 22 June 2014 17:30, Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il wrote: The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same person who deleted all the photos so far: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind of behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably more personal views... The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Itzik https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense Forces. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they were taken. There is no reasonable doubt about that. In addition, publication is not a requirement for being in the public domain in Israel. After I restored these images, I was threatem by LGA, who is a delete-only account: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#User:Yann There, more contributors argue on this issue. By asking absurb requirements about publication details, these contributors threaten the project as a whole. If insisting, it will lead people to upload pictures like these locally instead of Commons. Then the idea of a central repository for all Wikimedia projects is gone. Instead of looking for a reason to destroy these files, they should try to find a reason to keep them. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
So you want them to have a letter You are allowed to use these images that you are allowed to use but if the letter says that the reason that they're allowed to use it is that they are allowed to use it, it is not valid. Shouldn't we be welcoming free content rather than inventing far out reasons to think why they maybe in some way are not free and thus delete them? Andre Engels On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli Government may still have some copyright protections. So while the contents of the letter are nice, they don't address the problem. It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might still exist under a very free licence like CC-0. That way even if URAA or some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright, they're usable by anyone. This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic Commons admin that the images are indeed free. Cheers, Craig On 22 June 2014 17:30, Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il wrote: The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same person who deleted all the photos so far: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind of behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably more personal views... The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Itzik https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense Forces. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they were taken. There is no reasonable doubt about that. In addition, publication is not a requirement for being in the public domain in Israel. After I restored these images, I was threatem by LGA, who is a delete-only account: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#User:Yann There, more contributors argue on this issue. By asking absurb requirements about publication details, these contributors threaten the project as a whole. If insisting, it will lead people to upload pictures like these locally instead of Commons. Then the idea of a central repository for all Wikimedia projects is gone. Instead of looking for a reason to destroy these files, they should try to find a reason to keep them. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
It is a bit crazy :-) The use to be copyright holder of these files is Israeli goverment. But according to the goverment it does not claim any copyrights as it clearly stated that the these files are not copyrightable, and it is no longer copyright holder. One can have an assumption that next Israeli government may change its mind. But the government can change the mind even if it releases these pictures under CC-0 waiver. In most jurisdictions the licenses can be revoked and the non-revocable clauses in CC and GNU/FAL licenses have no any legal value. I mean the absolute attitude of Commons towards copyright freedom of media hardly make any sense in most jurisdictions. It ignores many facts and is sticked to some others without clear reasons. This not an absolute as in absolute terms there is no any single media about which one can say it is free globally with 100% certainty, and also it is not any practical attitude really preventing our re-users from legal problems, as we mainly ignore non-copyright legal issues. This is rather a derivative of long discussions on Commons which are subject of group thinking syndrome, which made some arguments kind of dogma . 2014-06-22 12:07 GMT+02:00 Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com: So you want them to have a letter You are allowed to use these images that you are allowed to use but if the letter says that the reason that they're allowed to use it is that they are allowed to use it, it is not valid. Shouldn't we be welcoming free content rather than inventing far out reasons to think why they maybe in some way are not free and thus delete them? Andre Engels On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli Government may still have some copyright protections. So while the contents of the letter are nice, they don't address the problem. It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might still exist under a very free licence like CC-0. That way even if URAA or some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright, they're usable by anyone. This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic Commons admin that the images are indeed free. Cheers, Craig On 22 June 2014 17:30, Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il wrote: The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same person who deleted all the photos so far: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind of behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably more personal views... The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Itzik https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense Forces. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they were
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Craig, et al On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli Government may still have some copyright protections. You are misunderstanding completely the issue. There is no evidence that Israel has a PD exemption for such government works, as we see for say, Russia,[1] which allows for letters such as this to exist on Commons.[2] It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might still exist under a very free licence like CC-0. That way even if URAA or some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright, they're usable by anyone. This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic Commons admin that the images are indeed free. I have told someone that what needs to occur is for the GPO to release their claims over copyright worldwide in relation to URAA. The reason for this, is the same reason that the Israeli Government would NEVER CC-0 licence their materials -- because it opens them up to parody, satire and other uses that they might not agree with -- and we need to protect re-users who wish to use materials for such purposes. That's the same reason that the Australian Commonwealth Parliament refuses to CC photos of MPs, in case you weren't aware. Cheers Russavia [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-RU-exempt [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_letter_to_FIFA.jpg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Itzik On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il wrote: The story continues. WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest on this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same person who deleted all the photos so far: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg The file was deleted because Hanay uploaded it as a self-authored work. This is obviously not the case, so the deletion is valid. Please refer to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:SCOPE and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:L If Israeli law has an exemption for government works, then perhaps we can look at restoring it. It saddens me that I am having to say this to the Chairman of Wikimedia Israel, because it truly seems to me that you don't know how Commons operates and what our mission is. Cheers Russavia ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
I'm uncertain why CC-0 would be more beneficial than a statement that the government believes the photos to be in the public domain. The main difference I see is that a release is active, which might be out of the power of the civil servant, the statement is a matter of fact and thus passive. Maybe you would insist that the Israeli govenment issues a statement that they will follow their own copyright law rather than the US copyright law? Seems like an open door to me, to be honest. (yeah yeah, i know this is an easy target for snarky anti-israel remarks - lets steer away from that here please) I can understand this to be an issue with private non-government works from Israel, but I really don't see the point in government works that are considered PD in the country where they originate. Either way, we're not going to resolve this discussion here - but I do get a better understanding of some of the frustration. Lodewijk 2014-06-22 12:26 GMT+02:00 Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com: Craig, et al On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli Government may still have some copyright protections. You are misunderstanding completely the issue. There is no evidence that Israel has a PD exemption for such government works, as we see for say, Russia,[1] which allows for letters such as this to exist on Commons.[2] It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might still exist under a very free licence like CC-0. That way even if URAA or some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright, they're usable by anyone. This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic Commons admin that the images are indeed free. I have told someone that what needs to occur is for the GPO to release their claims over copyright worldwide in relation to URAA. The reason for this, is the same reason that the Israeli Government would NEVER CC-0 licence their materials -- because it opens them up to parody, satire and other uses that they might not agree with -- and we need to protect re-users who wish to use materials for such purposes. That's the same reason that the Australian Commonwealth Parliament refuses to CC photos of MPs, in case you weren't aware. Cheers Russavia [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-RU-exempt [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_letter_to_FIFA.jpg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Russavia, I am aware that that is the issue (and I was talking about the original problem images, not this letter). I'm a bit confused though about the parody/satire angle, my understanding is that a CC licence does not extinguish things such as moral rights that are not related to copyright. Also, I do find it a bit odd that the Israeli Ministry of Justice would be comfortable disclaiming any copyright to the image within Israel per their letter, but would be uncomfortable licencing them in other jurisdictions under a licence that does essentially the same thing. We can but only ask, and see what they say; if they say no for the reasons you outline then nothing has been lost. I do agree that the Australian Commonwealth is behind the curve as well here, but in my experience and with some honourable exceptions, most federal bureaucrats still conflate these issues with the unrelated matter of FOI law. But, I guess what I'm trying to get at, is that if these images *are* useful, a more productive course of action than arguing about it on a mailing list would probably be to identify what steps can be taken in good faith to move them from a disputed copyright situation to a situation where everyone is comfortable that there are no problems with re-use. If all the energy that had gone into these threads and the various tit-for-tat nominations on Commons had gone into that instead, we'd probably already be halfway there. Cheers, Craig On 22 June 2014 20:26, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: Craig, et al On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli Government may still have some copyright protections. You are misunderstanding completely the issue. There is no evidence that Israel has a PD exemption for such government works, as we see for say, Russia,[1] which allows for letters such as this to exist on Commons.[2] It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might still exist under a very free licence like CC-0. That way even if URAA or some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright, they're usable by anyone. This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic Commons admin that the images are indeed free. I have told someone that what needs to occur is for the GPO to release their claims over copyright worldwide in relation to URAA. The reason for this, is the same reason that the Israeli Government would NEVER CC-0 licence their materials -- because it opens them up to parody, satire and other uses that they might not agree with -- and we need to protect re-users who wish to use materials for such purposes. That's the same reason that the Australian Commonwealth Parliament refuses to CC photos of MPs, in case you weren't aware. Cheers Russavia [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-RU-exempt [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_letter_to_FIFA.jpg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
Is there a listing of the volunteer positions which work for the Wikimedia Foundation? I can think of several areas people volunteer in: system operators, software development, public relations, correspondence management (OTRS), list moderation, event management, conflict resolution (Arbcom), Funds Distribution (FDC), Affiliations Committee, etc. How many are there? Regards, Richard. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
On 22 June 2014 12:08, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: ... parody/satire angle, my understanding is that a CC licence does not extinguish things such as moral rights that are not related to copyright. This is fundamentally misleading. Please refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_%28copyright_law%29 If you have not read up on IP law, or are confused about copyright terms, I suggest having the discussion on-wiki rather than on an email list, where corrections like this either get skipped, leading to later readers thinking that these are factual statements, or we end up repeating basic copyright law endlessly. Thanks, Fae -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
I agree they are but I'm interested in other volunteers who may or may not be editors. Thanks, Richard Original message From: Dirk Franke dirk.fra...@wikimedia.de Date: 22/06/2014 21:21 (GMT+10:00) To: rich...@ames.id.au,Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have Hi Richard, Just wondering: why are editors not volunteers? best, ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Such a statement from GOI can't override US copyright law for all works originated from Israel. (as Geni said above) But one thing they can do. They can make a statement that they have no plan to claim copyright for Govt works per URAA in USA. So all the works of Israel will become PD in USA too when they become PD in Israel. I think this is the opinin expressed by Carl Lindberg at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2014/04#New_URAA_policy_and_the_rule_of_the_shorter_term Jee On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 June 2014 12:08, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: ... parody/satire angle, my understanding is that a CC licence does not extinguish things such as moral rights that are not related to copyright. This is fundamentally misleading. Please refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_%28copyright_law%29 If you have not read up on IP law, or are confused about copyright terms, I suggest having the discussion on-wiki rather than on an email list, where corrections like this either get skipped, leading to later readers thinking that these are factual statements, or we end up repeating basic copyright law endlessly. Thanks, Fae -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
Wikimedia volunteers are self-organised, why would there be a list? Richard Ames, 22/06/2014 13:12: volunteer positions which work for I smell a contradiction. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
There's no master list that I know of, but there are lists of each of those things: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/System_administrators#List https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developers/Accounts https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_room#Official_chapters https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS/Users https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Members#Current_members Many of the people on those lists are not volunteers. I'm afraid you're on your own for aggregating the many lists of ArbCom members, mailing list moderators, and event coordinators. :-) On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Richard Ames rich...@ames.id.au wrote: Is there a listing of the volunteer positions which work for the Wikimedia Foundation? I can think of several areas people volunteer in: system operators, software development, public relations, correspondence management (OTRS), list moderation, event management, conflict resolution (Arbcom), Funds Distribution (FDC), Affiliations Committee, etc. How many are there? Regards, Richard. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com wrote: Many of the people on those lists are not volunteers. How's your definition of volunteers? Alice. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Alice Wiegand me.ly...@gmail.com wrote: How's your definition of volunteers? In this case, I just mean that some of the people on those lists are paid employees of the WMF or a chapter, so I can't guarantee that everyone on a list of volunteers is acting in a purely volunteer role. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
With all the good faith, and even with the good connections of WMIL with the Israeli government - lets don't forget this it is still, a government, and it is not kind of lets ask them and they will do it just because we are Wikimedia Commons issue. It was hard enough to explain them the ridiculous situation we are facing right now. Don't forget It's took us 3 years to convince the government to release their public photos under cc-nc, and it was a huge win and successful advocacy work for our movement that never been done before. I'm saying that in *my personal opinion* as Wikimedians, and not I'm representing WMIL (which will continue FULLY to support the efforts on this issue) or any other official role i'm holding: but to be honest, as the situation looks right now in the commons - I don't think the government of Israel, or any other government need to behave according to the commons admins and their personal actions and opinions. From the government point of view - the photos are available online, they are free, they are no longer under copyright and they welcome everyone to uses it. Many people are already using the photos on websites, Flickrs accounts and others photos services - if the commons want to write his one rules and interpretations, even when the WMF BOT and the WMF legal staff don't fully support their steps - this is the commons and the movement problem to handle - not the government that have many others issues to handle, as this is not easy to reach and implement decision - and it rellevent to every government in the world. They are not working for us. On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Jeevan Jose jkadav...@gmail.com wrote: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg Such a statement from GOI can't override US copyright law for all works originated from Israel. (as Geni said above) But one thing they can do. They can make a statement that they have no plan to claim copyright for Govt works per URAA in USA. So all the works of Israel will become PD in USA too when they become PD in Israel. I think this is the opinin expressed by Carl Lindberg at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2014/04#New_URAA_policy_and_the_rule_of_the_shorter_term Jee On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 June 2014 12:08, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: ... parody/satire angle, my understanding is that a CC licence does not extinguish things such as moral rights that are not related to copyright. This is fundamentally misleading. Please refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_%28copyright_law%29 If you have not read up on IP law, or are confused about copyright terms, I suggest having the discussion on-wiki rather than on an email list, where corrections like this either get skipped, leading to later readers thinking that these are factual statements, or we end up repeating basic copyright law endlessly. Thanks, Fae -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
2014-06-22 13:59 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com: Wikimedia volunteers are self-organised, why would there be a list? Because we love making lists. That being said, Richard list wiki-specific positions like ArbCom, which I suppose would mean that volunteers for the Wikimedia Foundation should be understood in a broad sense, and if so, the answer is definitely no. Even when some lists exists, like the e.g. the press room list Benjamin linked, they're in no way complete. For example, the press contact for Wikimedia Sweden (which, of course, is technically not a volunteer position for Wikimedia Foundation, since the chapters are independent and sometimes do stuff that's not related to the Wikimedia movement) is listed, but Swedish-language Wikipedia has a volunteer press contact of its own, who isn't. //Johan Jönsson -- http://wikipediabloggen.se ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Hi, 2014-06-22 16:00 GMT+05:30 Tomasz Ganicz polime...@gmail.com: It is a bit crazy :-) The use to be copyright holder of these files is Israeli goverment. But according to the goverment it does not claim any copyrights as it clearly stated that the these files are not copyrightable, and it is no longer copyright holder. One can have an assumption that next Israeli government may change its mind. But the government can change the mind even if it releases these pictures under CC-0 waiver. In most jurisdictions the licenses can be revoked and the non-revocable clauses in CC and GNU/FAL licenses have no any legal value. I mean the absolute attitude of Commons towards copyright freedom of media hardly make any sense in most jurisdictions. It ignores many facts and is sticked to some others without clear reasons. This not an absolute as in absolute terms there is no any single media about which one can say it is free globally with 100% certainty, and also it is not any practical attitude really preventing our re-users from legal problems, as we mainly ignore non-copyright legal issues. This is rather a derivative of long discussions on Commons which are subject of group thinking syndrome, which made some arguments kind of dogma . Yes, good point, and that's exactly what I am saying all the time. ;oD Nevertheless a number of admins and non-admins on Commons still insist that every files on Commons should be free globally with 100% certainty. I think this is a poor understanding of how copyright law works. 2014-06-22 12:07 GMT+02:00 Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com: So you want them to have a letter You are allowed to use these images that you are allowed to use but if the letter says that the reason that they're allowed to use it is that they are allowed to use it, it is not valid. Shouldn't we be welcoming free content rather than inventing far out reasons to think why they maybe in some way are not free and thus delete them? Yeah. I think we need to assume good faith, even from the Isreali government. ;oD Anyway, I think that the matter was handled very poorly by Russavia, who started the deletion request. As I said there, a request to the IDF could have been sent before, and the DR open only later if a negative answer is received. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Venture Beyond
I like reading this. Excellent, indeed! On 3 June 2014 03:50, Nurunnaby Chowdhury n...@nhasive.com wrote: +1 Lila.. -- Nurunnaby Chowdhury | @nhasive Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia | User: Nhasive Member, IEG, WMF Sent from my iPhone device On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote: If only you made this an actual verbal speech! That's how inspiring I find this statement :). On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Vishnu visdav...@gmail.com wrote: +1 Lila. Best wishes. Vishnu On Tuesday 03 June 2014 10:52 AM, Lila Tretikov wrote: A month ago, I met some of you for the first time at the WMF’s monthly metrics meeting. Officially, today is my first day as Executive Director of the Foundation. In practice, it’s a day like many others: Today and in the future, we’ll keep working together towards our mission. When I first started learning about Wikimedia, I thought to myself: this will be different. Now, seeing the world from within the information Big Bang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang, I know: it is. Every second the universe of information is expanding around us, and Wikimedia is a major force that turns this information into knowledge. It is beholden to no one, yet accountable to each and every human being. We, the people who create knowledge and bring it to every corner of the world, are the ones that help it expand. We, the people who read and learn, are the ones that hold the power to make this world a better place. I often speak about human experience. Most have understood this as talking about user experience: the way we access the information or contribute knowledge. You are — partially — right. But what I mean is bigger than that. What I am after is our connection to the world and each other through knowledge. What I’d like us to do is to think big. Think beyond ourselves. Think about humanity as a whole. Because you can. Because Wikimedia is the place to transcend the now and to build the future. This means that what’s ahead is bigger than any one of us. Yet, together, we can make it happen. It means thinking beyond ourselves. It means thinking as a student in Cambodia learning about Khmer poetry https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9E%80%E1%9F%92%E1%9E% 9A%E1%9E%98%E1%9E%84%E1%9F%89%E1%9E%BB%E1%9E%99, or a doctor in France writing about infectious diseases https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maladies_infectieuses. This means empathy, altruism and compassion. It means making things accessible, friendly and easy for everyone. This is what makes Wikimedia big. This is what makes each of us bigger than we could ever be. This is the what. Our job, as the community and the Foundation, is to build the how. Where is the will, there is a way. We are here to walk it. Let’s think big. *Lila Tretikov https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:LilaTretikov Executive Director* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l , mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
Craig, et al On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Russavia, I'm a bit confused though about the parody/satire angle, my understanding is that a CC licence does not extinguish things such as moral rights that are not related to copyright. Sorry, I should make myself more clear -- sometimes it's easy to forget that people may not be thinking on the same level as oneself. If an image is out of copyright in Israel, but still has copyright protection in the US due to URA, lets say one was to parody/satirise that work in the US, and let's say they sell that work for profit. Whilst parody and satire are covered under the 1st amendment in the US, the Israeli government could invoke the copyright protection in the US of that work to stop its distribution. And it's an argument that would work.[1] This is why it is required for the Israeli government to state clearly that when an Israeli government work falls into the public domain it relinquishes it's copyright over those works worldwide, and for this to cover both past (required due to URAA), present and future cases (preferable). If that doesn't occur, then Commons won't be able to host those materials until they fall out of copyright in the US due to the rejection of the loosening of the PRP policy, and by extension the URAA RfC, on Commons.[2] But, I guess what I'm trying to get at, is that if these images *are* useful, a more productive course of action than arguing about it on a mailing list would probably be to identify what steps can be taken in good faith to move them from a disputed copyright situation to a situation where everyone is comfortable that there are no problems with re-use. On this point I agree entirely. WMIL now has an ally, the Ministry of Education, I hope they use it to their advantage. Cheers Russavia [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Joker%22_poster [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Review_of_Precautionary_principlediff=127184893oldid=126836923 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] The Signpost -- Volume 10, Issue 23 -- 18 June 2014
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Richard Ames rich...@ames.id.au wrote: I would like to publicly thank the contributors to the Signpost; most are listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom +1. It is an incredibly useful resource - thank you for all the hard work you put in. Luis -- Luis Villa Deputy General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation 415.839.6885 ext. 6810 *This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] investment ratio cap on eqities
I recommend that the Foundation amend its Investment Policy to limit investment in equities to no more than 10% of its assets, to be purchased only after the Foundation investments staff has at least three years experience in debt investment, with a requirement to hold all equity investments for at least five years after purchase. Foundation staff would likely be among the best debt investors while simultaneously being among the worst possible equity investors because of the low volatility anomaly. Plus, with a large number of detractors, the Foundation could harm equity-poor investments indirectly. It would be like a visual editor for Yo with bronies versus brogrammers fighting over graphical styles when what people really want is adaptive rate voice buffering. Please do not contribute to the perpetuation of the business cycle. Thank you. Sincerely, James Salsman ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Urgent problem on the Beta Wikiversity
On Beta Wikiversity someone is active now who uses the project as his personal notepad/sandbox. The pages created in Dutch are short Wikipedia articles, copy of a message of the yearplan of WMNL, texts of Wikisource, Wikinews articles, and for every person he contacted he creates a page. In his communication towards those people he presents himself as Wikiversity and says such in these pages. All these pages do not contain educational content. Another major issue is that private information is added to these pages, privacy violation for no reason. Another issue is the adding of copyrighted material Because of there is no Dutch community there, nobody takes action. At the moment the Dutch chapter is working on setting up an education program, but the current material would discredit the attempt and we do not consider it realistic to start up this project at Beta Wikiversity. How to act? Romaine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
I think a better formulation of the question might be: do we have a list of non-editing activities, and do we have a count of the number of people who do them regularly? To which the answer is partially-yes, and mostly-no. Yes: There is a mindmap of activities and roles that was created and is fairly comprehensive. No: Some of those activities have related logs (lists of users by technical flag) or categories (list of users who have categorized their userpage), or pages (lists of OTRS or press contacts, lists of members or a project or organization). But I've never seen a division of these into active v. passive (committee work v. group membership), or a total count. SJ On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Johan Jönsson brevlis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-06-22 13:59 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com: Wikimedia volunteers are self-organised, why would there be a list? Because we love making lists. That being said, Richard list wiki-specific positions like ArbCom, which I suppose would mean that volunteers for the Wikimedia Foundation should be understood in a broad sense, and if so, the answer is definitely no. Even when some lists exists, like the e.g. the press room list Benjamin linked, they're in no way complete. For example, the press contact for Wikimedia Sweden (which, of course, is technically not a volunteer position for Wikimedia Foundation, since the chapters are independent and sometimes do stuff that's not related to the Wikimedia movement) is listed, but Swedish-language Wikipedia has a volunteer press contact of its own, who isn't. //Johan Jönsson -- http://wikipediabloggen.se ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] How many volunteers (not editors) does the movement have????
In that case, 'many people are not volunteers' is probably an overstatement :) At least for AffCom, FDC, OTRS are almost fully employees. The list of chapter people is much longer (boards alone: ~40 * 6 est. average = 240 people, all volunteers) than the list of press contacts. In Wiki Loves Monuments probably some 200-400 volunteers were involved too - but there is some overlap. All in all, I guess that we may end up around a thousand volunteers quite easily. Lodewijk 2014-06-22 17:43 GMT+02:00 Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com: On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Alice Wiegand me.ly...@gmail.com wrote: How's your definition of volunteers? In this case, I just mean that some of the people on those lists are paid employees of the WMF or a chapter, so I can't guarantee that everyone on a list of volunteers is acting in a purely volunteer role. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)
On 22/06/2014 17:10, Itzik Edri wrote: Many people are already using the photos on websites, Flickrs accounts and others photos services They had better not be using them on flickr accounts as flickr may delete the entire account, for infringing the flickr and Y! TC. The issue being that flickr accounts should only contain material that the photographer has taken themselves, there is some leeway for old family photographs. Accounts that contain material that has been hoover up from around the web tend to get deleted. https://www.flickr.com/help/guidelines/ That includes material that is CC'd and also material where the photog has given explicit permission. The issue is that on flickr there are many places where a copyright notice is added that references the account. So if Fred Bloggs uploads John Doe's photograph, it will falsely be attributed as Copyright Fred Bloggs this attribution violates all CC licenses. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
