Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the Code of Conduct in force?

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
You seek cultural change but what is it that you want to change? You are
outspoken and as others commented an edge that is more than
confrontational. My appreciation is one where I fail to see the connection
with what we do, it is only about how we do it. That is in my opinion
overrated.

In many ways, I have found that our community is overly self observed. They
care mostly about their patch and when changes happen they are possessive;
they hardly care about how together with a more communal effort we make
more progress. I give you one example; I got in contact with people who
(take) care of the Black Lunch Table. We discussed the issues with the
project and we worked to manage the project largely using Wikidata. So all
the 900+ people including the "red links" where added to Wikidata. After a
discussion at Wikidata we now use "catalog" with "Black Lunch Table" to
indicate the items involved. The benefits: in stead of three Wikitables
that have to be maintained, Listeria does all three based on the same data.
We found that many other Wikipedias have articles on the people identified
by the Black Lunch Table and the same queries should work on those
Wikipedias as well. The consequence is that more time can be spend on
actually caring about the project, the articles and even the data.

My point is that community is NOT about how we are supposed to do things
because if we had to ask the community for this experiment, we would have
no answer. It is because true people from the community, people who make a
difference for the projects themselves were involved, they allowed for the
experiment and are starting to see their benefit and the benefit for us
all. Now THAT is a cultural change and my challenge is old; I want to
discuss quality with Wiki people and I want us to do better. When we do
better, we will be better able to recognise fake facts.

For Rogol and Pine I have an additional challenge; when the WMF is to
support the community, is their time better spend serving quality or is
their time better spend discussing endless procedures that make us stick in
the mud as it stifles initiative?
Thanks,
  GerardM



On 5 March 2017 at 11:21, Rogol Domedonfors  wrote:

> Pine,
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:45 PM, you wrote:
>
> > [...]
> >
> > The way that you phrase your questions sometimes comes across to me as
> > having an edge than is more confrontational than I think is necessary,
> and
> > I am finding the tone to be a distraction from what is, I think, our
> mutual
> > goal of trying to align WMF more with the community. Sometimes carrots
> work
> > better than sticks. I have a long list of changes that I would like WMF
> to
> > make, but cultural change is a long term process, and sometimes patience
> > works better than demands.
> >
>
> Unfortunately cultural change is unlikely to happen against a background of
> perpetual unwarranted self-congratulation and complacency.  A clear
> articulation of areas needing improvement and suggestions for ways of
> improving may not always make for comfortable reading, but I make no
> apology for presenting that position.  I would have been happy to have been
> able to be more detailed in my suggestions, but it seems to me that the
> Foundation is, and has been for some time, unable or unwilling to
> acknowledge, let alone respond to or engage with, the attempts by numerous
> community members to initiate a serious engagement.  Perhaps your
> experience in this area has been better, and if so, I would be pleased to
> hear from you what your successes have been and how you have achieved them.
>
> "Rogol"
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Gergő Tisza]

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Todd Allen  wrote:

> I'm not a German speaker, and I know context and nuance can be lost in
> machine translation. That being said, the one about someone who was
> offering attribution and then got slapped with a bill for a simple
> technical error is very disturbing. Especially since as brought up before,
> a direct link would always lack the attribution contained on an
> accompanying page.
>

I can read some German and looked into a similar case the last time this
came up (the thread was called "harald bischoff advertising to make images
"for the wikimedia foundation" and then suing users"). It involved (amongst
others) an amateur news blog which took an image from the Wikipedia article
of some politician and credited it to "Wikipedia" (with link to the image
description page; but no author or license), and was slapped with a ~$1000
fee. These kind of predatory tactics hurt the reputation and moral standing
of the movement IMO.

I think asking for damages might be acceptable if
- the reuser is a big organization which has its own copyright lawyers
(e.g. a commercial news publisher) and really should have known better
- the reuser refuses to fix the attribution when asked
- the reuser does not even attempt to indicate that the image is from
elsewhere
but when none of those is the case, threatening to sue violates the spirit
of free content, even if it is in accordance with the fine print of the
license.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Gnangarra]

Lodewijk, I posted ​on the 4th,

> Licensing and the choices have been discussed on Commons https://commons.
> wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment/AppropriatelyLicensed  is
> well worth a read to understand the issue


the problem of no attribution is a real issue sometimes I just ask for the
company to fix that and other times I just ignore.  On one occasion I went
to a lawyer because the company had put their copyright mark on my photo
and was offering it for sale. The cases highlighted are trivial and should
normally be dismissed by courts but using predatory behavior of lawyers
does get rewards.

I agree that the predatory behavior needs to be addressed but in doing so
we shouldnt be excluding the opportunity for recourse when malicious
behaviors of the end user occur.   A part of the free sharing of knowledge
is ensuring the under lying laws and conditions that enable it are also
respected by all parties. ​

On 6 March 2017 at 08:03, Lodewijk  wrote:

> Hi Steinsplitter. Thanks for mentioning this was discussed multiple times
> on Wikimedia Commons. The discussion on the German Wikipedia was actually
> the trigger of this discussion, so we were aware of that existing. I didn't
> see a reference to the discussions on Commons yet. Do you have links by any
> chance?
>
> Thanks,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2017-03-05 13:33 GMT+01:00 Steinsplitter Wiki  >:
>
> > This has been discussed multiple times on Wikimedia Commons and dewp,
> thus
> > i see no need to discuss it here again.
> >
> > The RFC on dewp [1] to ban such photos from being used failed, which
> > speaks for itself.
> >
> > --Steinsplitter
> >
> > [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/
> > keine_Bilder_in_Artikelnamensraum_von_direkt_abmahnenden_Fotografen
> >
> >
> > 
> > Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag
> von
> > rupert THURNER 
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22
> > An: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist
> > business
> >
> > case 1:
> > 
> > to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for
> > "abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia):
> > 
> >
> > personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put
> > people on some pillory for doing what the law allows them to do. like
> > separating into two commons - one save for reuse, one to be used if
> > you know a lawyer. or to built into wikipedias infrastructure to
> > include the license and author within the picture, fix wordpress,
> > etcetc. besides of course fixing the CC license in case it still is
> > not ready for proper online usage.
> >
> > rupert
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Lodewijk 
> > wrote:
> > > I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials
> > in
> > > good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted
> to
> > > see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
> > > Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill
> > >  > aus-der-wikipedia-2013-01-12>
> > > of
> > > hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name
> > or this
> > > website that was asked 
> to
> > > pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
> > > contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
> > > behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild
> wikipedia"
> > to
> > > find more examples and stories.
> > >
> > > Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.
> > >
> > > Lodewijk
> > >
> > > 2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :
> > >
> > >> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
> > >> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> > >> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> > >> what we're actually talking about here?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> - d.
> > >>
> > >> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Lodewijk]

Hi Steinsplitter. Thanks for mentioning this was discussed multiple times
on Wikimedia Commons. The discussion on the German Wikipedia was actually
the trigger of this discussion, so we were aware of that existing. I didn't
see a reference to the discussions on Commons yet. Do you have links by any
chance?

Thanks,
Lodewijk

2017-03-05 13:33 GMT+01:00 Steinsplitter Wiki :

> This has been discussed multiple times on Wikimedia Commons and dewp, thus
> i see no need to discuss it here again.
>
> The RFC on dewp [1] to ban such photos from being used failed, which
> speaks for itself.
>
> --Steinsplitter
>
> [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/
> keine_Bilder_in_Artikelnamensraum_von_direkt_abmahnenden_Fotografen
>
>
> 
> Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag von
> rupert THURNER 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22
> An: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist
> business
>
> case 1:
> 
> to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for
> "abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia):
> 
>
> personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put
> people on some pillory for doing what the law allows them to do. like
> separating into two commons - one save for reuse, one to be used if
> you know a lawyer. or to built into wikipedias infrastructure to
> include the license and author within the picture, fix wordpress,
> etcetc. besides of course fixing the CC license in case it still is
> not ready for proper online usage.
>
> rupert
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
> > I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials
> in
> > good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted to
> > see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
> > Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill
> >  aus-der-wikipedia-2013-01-12>
> > of
> > hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name
> or this
> > website that was asked  to
> > pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
> > contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
> > behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild wikipedia"
> to
> > find more examples and stories.
> >
> > Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :
> >
> >> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
> >> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> >> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> >> what we're actually talking about here?
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Yann Forget]

Hi,

No, I didn't ask any help from the WMF.
I don't know if it would have changed anything.

Regards,

Yann

2017-03-05 21:07 GMT+01:00 Rogol Domedonfors :

> Yann
>
> Did you ask for, or receive, any help from the WMF?  If so, was it
> effective?  If not, do you think you should have done?
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Yann Forget  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a personal experience which is worth considering.
> > One of my picture uploaded on Commons under CC-BY-SA was used without
> > attribution by a political party on their website and 2 of their leaflets
> > (printed to more than 10,000 copies each).
> > I contacted them, and they immediately acknowledged that the license was
> > not respected. Their excuse was "We didn't know", which is quite
> difficult
> > to accept.
> > But then they stopped answering to my mails.
> > So I contacted a lawyer, who told me that I should ask "at least 5,000
> > euros".
> > Then the politician said to my lawyer than "I have agreed to a
> compensation
> > of a few euros", which is completely false.
> > Consequence: My lawyer could not negotiate more than a few hundreds
> euros.
> > Morality: It would have been much better for me to contact a lawyer
> > directly rather than trying to negotiate an amicable agreement. :(
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Yann
> >
> >
> > 2017-03-05 15:30 GMT+01:00 James Heilman :
> >
> > > Am looking into options. Am going to be discussing things with a
> lawyer.
> > > Might be good to have a number of Wikipedians involved and will ask
> him.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <
> > domedonf...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > James, that's very helpful and I see at least one book on that list
> > that
> > > > violates the licence, and hence breaches my copyright, in content
> that
> > I
> > > > wrote.  What's the best way forward?  Should  the WMF represent the
> > > > community by engaging directly with the company responsible?  Or
> should
> > > it
> > > > coordinate and advise individual contributors making numerous
> > individual
> > > > approaches?  Or should it do nothing?  What's best?
> > > >
> > > > "Rogol"
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:39 AM, James Heilman 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Rupert here is a list of 213,000 books that are based on Wikipedia
> > > > without
> > > > > proper attribution.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22CTI+Reviews%22
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:47 AM, David Gerard 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level
> > > discussions
> > > > > > and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> > > > > > uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted
> examples
> > of
> > > > > > what we're actually talking about here?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > >  > unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > James Heilman
> > > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > > >
> > > > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > > > > ___
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> > > > >  unsubscribe>
> > > > >
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> > > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Heilman
> > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >
> > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

[Pine W]

Andrew, I somewhat agree. This is a discussion list. The people who are
here tend to be especially well-informed, and discussions can be very
informative and useful. RfCs and surveys have their own limitations, so
getting a "representative slice of community sentiment" is a bit of a
challenge, especially given the number of RfCs and discussions that take
place around the wikiverse.

Pine


On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Andrew Lih  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:46 AM, George William Herbert <
> george.herb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think that the idea of taking the weekend off from the topic is
> > excellent.  We may not have reached universal consensus yet but
> everything
> > we needed to have said was, and it's been acknowledged as received and
> > under consideration.
> >
>
> I truly hope no one takes any discussion here as indicating anything
> approaching “universal consensus.”
>
> Wikimedia-L is a self-selected set of participants who are wiling to
> tolerate the culture on the list. It should not be assumed to be a
> representative slice of community sentiment.
>
> -Andrew
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] March 2: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#9)

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Katherine

At some point it would be interesting to learn how the external consultants
were selected.  I note, for example, that Lake Associates describes itself
as working "side by side with our clients on developing communications and
paid media, targeting supporters, and honing the messages that win
persuadable voters" and Celinda Lake as "one of the Democratic Party's
leading political strategists".  On what grounds was this company selected
to work on "proposed market research and recommendations on firms or
contractors (including Lake) who could conduct desk and/or generative
research", which seems very far from their self-proclaimed field of
expertise?

"Rogol"
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the Code of Conduct in force?

[Pine W]

Hi Rogol,

Sure, I'd be glad to talk with you about this. I think that a more
interactive discussion might be helpful. Would you be willing to meet me on
IRC? If so, could you email me off-list so that we can set up a time and
channel for a meeting?

Thanks,

Pine


On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:21 AM, Rogol Domedonfors 
wrote:

> Pine,
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:45 PM, you wrote:
>
> > [...]
> >
> > The way that you phrase your questions sometimes comes across to me as
> > having an edge than is more confrontational than I think is necessary,
> and
> > I am finding the tone to be a distraction from what is, I think, our
> mutual
> > goal of trying to align WMF more with the community. Sometimes carrots
> work
> > better than sticks. I have a long list of changes that I would like WMF
> to
> > make, but cultural change is a long term process, and sometimes patience
> > works better than demands.
> >
>
> Unfortunately cultural change is unlikely to happen against a background of
> perpetual unwarranted self-congratulation and complacency.  A clear
> articulation of areas needing improvement and suggestions for ways of
> improving may not always make for comfortable reading, but I make no
> apology for presenting that position.  I would have been happy to have been
> able to be more detailed in my suggestions, but it seems to me that the
> Foundation is, and has been for some time, unable or unwilling to
> acknowledge, let alone respond to or engage with, the attempts by numerous
> community members to initiate a serious engagement.  Perhaps your
> experience in this area has been better, and if so, I would be pleased to
> hear from you what your successes have been and how you have achieved them.
>
> "Rogol"
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Yann

Did you ask for, or receive, any help from the WMF?  If so, was it
effective?  If not, do you think you should have done?

"Rogol"

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Yann Forget  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a personal experience which is worth considering.
> One of my picture uploaded on Commons under CC-BY-SA was used without
> attribution by a political party on their website and 2 of their leaflets
> (printed to more than 10,000 copies each).
> I contacted them, and they immediately acknowledged that the license was
> not respected. Their excuse was "We didn't know", which is quite difficult
> to accept.
> But then they stopped answering to my mails.
> So I contacted a lawyer, who told me that I should ask "at least 5,000
> euros".
> Then the politician said to my lawyer than "I have agreed to a compensation
> of a few euros", which is completely false.
> Consequence: My lawyer could not negotiate more than a few hundreds euros.
> Morality: It would have been much better for me to contact a lawyer
> directly rather than trying to negotiate an amicable agreement. :(
>
> Regards,
>
> Yann
>
>
> 2017-03-05 15:30 GMT+01:00 James Heilman :
>
> > Am looking into options. Am going to be discussing things with a lawyer.
> > Might be good to have a number of Wikipedians involved and will ask him.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <
> domedonf...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > James, that's very helpful and I see at least one book on that list
> that
> > > violates the licence, and hence breaches my copyright, in content that
> I
> > > wrote.  What's the best way forward?  Should  the WMF represent the
> > > community by engaging directly with the company responsible?  Or should
> > it
> > > coordinate and advise individual contributors making numerous
> individual
> > > approaches?  Or should it do nothing?  What's best?
> > >
> > > "Rogol"
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:39 AM, James Heilman 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Rupert here is a list of 213,000 books that are based on Wikipedia
> > > without
> > > > proper attribution.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22CTI+Reviews%22
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:47 AM, David Gerard 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level
> > discussions
> > > > > and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> > > > > uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples
> of
> > > > > what we're actually talking about here?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - d.
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >  unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > James Heilman
> > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > >
> > > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Yann Forget]

Hi,

I have a personal experience which is worth considering.
One of my picture uploaded on Commons under CC-BY-SA was used without
attribution by a political party on their website and 2 of their leaflets
(printed to more than 10,000 copies each).
I contacted them, and they immediately acknowledged that the license was
not respected. Their excuse was "We didn't know", which is quite difficult
to accept.
But then they stopped answering to my mails.
So I contacted a lawyer, who told me that I should ask "at least 5,000
euros".
Then the politician said to my lawyer than "I have agreed to a compensation
of a few euros", which is completely false.
Consequence: My lawyer could not negotiate more than a few hundreds euros.
Morality: It would have been much better for me to contact a lawyer
directly rather than trying to negotiate an amicable agreement. :(

Regards,

Yann


2017-03-05 15:30 GMT+01:00 James Heilman :

> Am looking into options. Am going to be discussing things with a lawyer.
> Might be good to have a number of Wikipedians involved and will ask him.
>
> James
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors 
> wrote:
>
> > James, that's very helpful and I see at least one book on that list that
> > violates the licence, and hence breaches my copyright, in content that I
> > wrote.  What's the best way forward?  Should  the WMF represent the
> > community by engaging directly with the company responsible?  Or should
> it
> > coordinate and advise individual contributors making numerous individual
> > approaches?  Or should it do nothing?  What's best?
> >
> > "Rogol"
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:39 AM, James Heilman  wrote:
> >
> > > Rupert here is a list of 213,000 books that are based on Wikipedia
> > without
> > > proper attribution.
> > >
> > > https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22CTI+Reviews%22
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:47 AM, David Gerard 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level
> discussions
> > > > and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> > > > uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> > > > what we're actually talking about here?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - d.
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Heilman
> > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >
> > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[James Heilman]

Am looking into options. Am going to be discussing things with a lawyer.
Might be good to have a number of Wikipedians involved and will ask him.

James

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors 
wrote:

> James, that's very helpful and I see at least one book on that list that
> violates the licence, and hence breaches my copyright, in content that I
> wrote.  What's the best way forward?  Should  the WMF represent the
> community by engaging directly with the company responsible?  Or should it
> coordinate and advise individual contributors making numerous individual
> approaches?  Or should it do nothing?  What's best?
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:39 AM, James Heilman  wrote:
>
> > Rupert here is a list of 213,000 books that are based on Wikipedia
> without
> > proper attribution.
> >
> > https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22CTI+Reviews%22
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:47 AM, David Gerard  wrote:
> >
> > > This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
> > > and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> > > uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> > > what we're actually talking about here?
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Todd Allen]

Thanks for the specific examples.

I'm not a German speaker, and I know context and nuance can be lost in
machine translation. That being said, the one about someone who was
offering attribution and then got slapped with a bill for a simple
technical error is very disturbing. Especially since as brought up before,
a direct link would always lack the attribution contained on an
accompanying page.

The simple fact that it's legal doesn't change anything. It would be legal
for me to create a website that doxxes editors. But I still would likely be
banned if I did that. If the best defense you can offer for your actions is
"It's not actually illegal!", that's a pretty lame defense.

I don't know if either de.wp or Commons have the idea of "bringing the
project into disrepute" being a reason to exclude someone from the project.
But if they do, using legal demands rather than polite requests as a first
resort and a trap to make a buck seem to qualify.

I have no issue with editors asserting their legal rights if someone fails
or refuses to accede to a request to bring material into license
compliance, or if someone is acting in bad faith and their noncompliance is
clearly deliberate. But the request should always be the first step, and if
they do what was asked, that should be the end of it. That's especially
true for those who made a good faith effort to comply and simply made a
mistake in doing so.

Todd

On Mar 5, 2017 5:36 AM, "Gerard Meijssen"  wrote:

> Hoi,
>  this is neither Commons nor German Wikipedia   We know that
> each subset of the Wikimedia Community may have its own arguments and its
> own consensus. By allowing for such a discussion new arguments may arise.
> That is useful.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 5 March 2017 at 13:33, Steinsplitter Wiki 
> wrote:
>
> > This has been discussed multiple times on Wikimedia Commons and dewp,
> thus
> > i see no need to discuss it here again.
> >
> > The RFC on dewp [1] to ban such photos from being used failed, which
> > speaks for itself.
> >
> > --Steinsplitter
> >
> > [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/
> > keine_Bilder_in_Artikelnamensraum_von_direkt_abmahnenden_Fotografen
> >
> >
> > 
> > Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag
> von
> > rupert THURNER 
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22
> > An: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist
> > business
> >
> > case 1:
> > 
> > to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for
> > "abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia):
> > 
> >
> > personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put
> > people on some pillory for doing what the law allows them to do. like
> > separating into two commons - one save for reuse, one to be used if
> > you know a lawyer. or to built into wikipedias infrastructure to
> > include the license and author within the picture, fix wordpress,
> > etcetc. besides of course fixing the CC license in case it still is
> > not ready for proper online usage.
> >
> > rupert
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Lodewijk 
> > wrote:
> > > I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials
> > in
> > > good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted
> to
> > > see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
> > > Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill
> > >  > aus-der-wikipedia-2013-01-12>
> > > of
> > > hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name
> > or this
> > > website that was asked 
> to
> > > pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
> > > contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
> > > behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild
> wikipedia"
> > to
> > > find more examples and stories.
> > >
> > > Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.
> > >
> > > Lodewijk
> > >
> > > 2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :
> > >
> > >> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
> > >> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> > >> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> > >> what we're actually talking about here?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> - d.
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> 
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > Wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
 this is neither Commons nor German Wikipedia   We know that
each subset of the Wikimedia Community may have its own arguments and its
own consensus. By allowing for such a discussion new arguments may arise.
That is useful.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 5 March 2017 at 13:33, Steinsplitter Wiki 
wrote:

> This has been discussed multiple times on Wikimedia Commons and dewp, thus
> i see no need to discuss it here again.
>
> The RFC on dewp [1] to ban such photos from being used failed, which
> speaks for itself.
>
> --Steinsplitter
>
> [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/
> keine_Bilder_in_Artikelnamensraum_von_direkt_abmahnenden_Fotografen
>
>
> 
> Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag von
> rupert THURNER 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22
> An: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist
> business
>
> case 1:
> 
> to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for
> "abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia):
> 
>
> personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put
> people on some pillory for doing what the law allows them to do. like
> separating into two commons - one save for reuse, one to be used if
> you know a lawyer. or to built into wikipedias infrastructure to
> include the license and author within the picture, fix wordpress,
> etcetc. besides of course fixing the CC license in case it still is
> not ready for proper online usage.
>
> rupert
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
> > I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials
> in
> > good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted to
> > see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
> > Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill
> >  aus-der-wikipedia-2013-01-12>
> > of
> > hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name
> or this
> > website that was asked  to
> > pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
> > contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
> > behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild wikipedia"
> to
> > find more examples and stories.
> >
> > Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :
> >
> >> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
> >> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> >> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> >> what we're actually talking about here?
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
> ___
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Steinsplitter Wiki]

This has been discussed multiple times on Wikimedia Commons and dewp, thus i 
see no need to discuss it here again.

The RFC on dewp [1] to ban such photos from being used failed, which speaks for 
itself.

--Steinsplitter

[1] 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/keine_Bilder_in_Artikelnamensraum_von_direkt_abmahnenden_Fotografen



Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag von 
rupert THURNER 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22
An: Wikimedia Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

case 1:

to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for
"abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia):


personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put
people on some pillory for doing what the law allows them to do. like
separating into two commons - one save for reuse, one to be used if
you know a lawyer. or to built into wikipedias infrastructure to
include the license and author within the picture, fix wordpress,
etcetc. besides of course fixing the CC license in case it still is
not ready for proper online usage.

rupert

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Lodewijk  wrote:
> I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials in
> good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted to
> see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
> Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill
> 
> of
> hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name or 
> this
> website that was asked  to
> pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
> contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
> behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild wikipedia" to
> find more examples and stories.
>
> Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :
>
>> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
>> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
>> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
>> what we're actually talking about here?
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blocks of new accounts in Angola?

[John]

I cannot locate the original block in question but
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3A105.172.16.0%2F20
is now affecting the IP in question and it does look related to the
copyright violation issue previously brought up in this thread.

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 6:16 AM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In reality:
>
> "Account creation from IP addresses in the range 105.172.0.0/16, which
> includes your IP address (105.172.25.219), has been blocked by
> Steinsplitter. "
>
> That was the message most of them do not have a way to enter in the website
> that you requested, by the lack of mobile data...
>
>
>
> On 3 March 2017 at 14:52, Lucas Teles  wrote:
>
> > They were probably caught on this range block:
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&;
> > page=User%3A105.168.0.0%2F16&type=block
> >
> >
> > *Lucas Teles*
> >
> > *+55 (71) 99707 6409Steward at Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator *
> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*- Member of Wikimedia
> > Community User Group Brasil 
> >
> > 2017-02-22 12:54 GMT-03:00 Olatunde Isaac :
> >
> > > In addition to that thread, see also "https://commons.wikimedia.
> > > org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case"
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Isaac
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: "Olatunde Isaac" 
> > > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:30:06
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Reply-To: reachout2is...@gmail.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blocks of new accounts in Angola?
> > >
> > > Yes, there are some mass vandalism from Angola last year. Yaroslav, I
> > > think you may be looking for this thread, "
> https://www.mail-archive.com/
> > > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg23413.html"
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Isaac
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Yaroslav Blanter 
> > > Sender: "Wikimedia-l" Date:
> > Wed,
> > > 22 Feb 2017 16:17:32
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blocks of new accounts in Angola?
> > >
> > > Did not we have some mass vandalism from Angola some time ago, and then
> > > measures had to be taken? I do not remember the details.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 8:57 AM, George William Herbert <
> > > george.herb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Have them hit whatismyip.org and tell us what shows up..,
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> > > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been receiving complains via Facebook from people of Angola
> > about
> > > > not
> > > > > being able to create new accounts, some know something about it?
> They
> > > > > receive the as if the IP was blocked, however we receive more then
> 5
> > > > > complains just in the Commons FB page.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any ideas?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
> > > > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
> > > > > +55 11 979 718 884
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

[Andrew Lih]

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:46 AM, George William Herbert <
george.herb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think that the idea of taking the weekend off from the topic is
> excellent.  We may not have reached universal consensus yet but everything
> we needed to have said was, and it's been acknowledged as received and
> under consideration.
>

I truly hope no one takes any discussion here as indicating anything
approaching “universal consensus.”

Wikimedia-L is a self-selected set of participants who are wiling to
tolerate the culture on the list. It should not be assumed to be a
representative slice of community sentiment.

-Andrew
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blocks of new accounts in Angola?

[Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton]

In reality:

"Account creation from IP addresses in the range 105.172.0.0/16, which
includes your IP address (105.172.25.219), has been blocked by
Steinsplitter. "

That was the message most of them do not have a way to enter in the website
that you requested, by the lack of mobile data...



On 3 March 2017 at 14:52, Lucas Teles  wrote:

> They were probably caught on this range block:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&;
> page=User%3A105.168.0.0%2F16&type=block
>
>
> *Lucas Teles*
>
> *+55 (71) 99707 6409Steward at Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator *
> *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*- Member of Wikimedia
> Community User Group Brasil 
>
> 2017-02-22 12:54 GMT-03:00 Olatunde Isaac :
>
> > In addition to that thread, see also "https://commons.wikimedia.
> > org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case"
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Isaac
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Olatunde Isaac" 
> > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:30:06
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Reply-To: reachout2is...@gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blocks of new accounts in Angola?
> >
> > Yes, there are some mass vandalism from Angola last year. Yaroslav, I
> > think you may be looking for this thread, "https://www.mail-archive.com/
> > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg23413.html"
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Isaac
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Yaroslav Blanter 
> > Sender: "Wikimedia-l" Date:
> Wed,
> > 22 Feb 2017 16:17:32
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blocks of new accounts in Angola?
> >
> > Did not we have some mass vandalism from Angola some time ago, and then
> > measures had to be taken? I do not remember the details.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 8:57 AM, George William Herbert <
> > george.herb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Have them hit whatismyip.org and tell us what shows up..,
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been receiving complains via Facebook from people of Angola
> about
> > > not
> > > > being able to create new accounts, some know something about it? They
> > > > receive the as if the IP was blocked, however we receive more then 5
> > > > complains just in the Commons FB page.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
> > > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
> > > > +55 11 979 718 884
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
+55 11 979 718 884
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the Code of Conduct in force?

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Pine,

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:45 PM, you wrote:

> [...]
>
> The way that you phrase your questions sometimes comes across to me as
> having an edge than is more confrontational than I think is necessary, and
> I am finding the tone to be a distraction from what is, I think, our mutual
> goal of trying to align WMF more with the community. Sometimes carrots work
> better than sticks. I have a long list of changes that I would like WMF to
> make, but cultural change is a long term process, and sometimes patience
> works better than demands.
>

Unfortunately cultural change is unlikely to happen against a background of
perpetual unwarranted self-congratulation and complacency.  A clear
articulation of areas needing improvement and suggestions for ways of
improving may not always make for comfortable reading, but I make no
apology for presenting that position.  I would have been happy to have been
able to be more detailed in my suggestions, but it seems to me that the
Foundation is, and has been for some time, unable or unwilling to
acknowledge, let alone respond to or engage with, the attempts by numerous
community members to initiate a serious engagement.  Perhaps your
experience in this area has been better, and if so, I would be pleased to
hear from you what your successes have been and how you have achieved them.

"Rogol"
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[rupert THURNER]

case 1:
daniel pugge has a single person enterprise, and a blog. out of
wordpress he linked to the "juice plus" wikipedia article with marco
almbauers picture on it. the wordpress preview showing the thumbnail
of the linked article. marco then used the services of kurt kulac,
former president of wikimedia austria, to send a cease and desist
letter to daniel. reason: cc-by-sa-4.0, "license not stated directly
adjacent or within the picture". daniels conclusion "don't use
wikipedia commons" is not what the movement mission is:
* 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Juice_Plus&type=revision&diff=708489448&oldid=707955254
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VSf12T37fY
* cost: this one the cheap version, 524 euro,
https://www.jurablogs.com/go/abmahnung-marco-almbauer, daniels lawyer
not included
* http://danielpugge.de/impressum/
this case i find highly disturbing - i thought he cc license is fixed
now that dummy linking by dummy persons is not dangerous any more.

case 2:
kai copied a foto, medium resolution from commons to his own
webserver. he linked to it, attributing properly. afterwards he
deleted the website including the attribution, but left the picture on
the server. it still could be found by the search indixers. from the
cc germany mailing list, getting the helpful answer in the lines of
"if you are that stupid you deserve to pay":
* http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-de/2017-January/001138.html

to give other examples of edits the vote tried to ban from de:wp are
ones of 10 or so authors considered to create a trap. e.g. change the
foto of rijksmuseum amsterdam to his own, or berlin cathedral,
sometimes including an edit war between the two camps:
* 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rijksmuseum&diff=prev&oldid=728651441
* 
https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Berliner_Dom&diff=next&oldid=163030993
* reporting for vandalism:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalismusmeldung/Archiv/2017/02/26#Artikel_Berliner_Dom_.28erl..29

to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for
"abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia):
Harald Bischoff, Martina Nolte, Ralf Roletschek, Alexander Savin,
Wladyslaw Sojka, Sven Teschke, Dirk Vorderstraße, Thomas Wolf.

personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put
people on some pillory for doing what the law allows them to do. like
separating into two commons - one save for reuse, one to be used if
you know a lawyer. or to built into wikipedias infrastructure to
include the license and author within the picture, fix wordpress,
etcetc. besides of course fixing the CC license in case it still is
not ready for proper online usage.

rupert

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Lodewijk  wrote:
> I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials in
> good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted to
> see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
> Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill
> 
> of
> hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name or 
> this
> website that was asked  to
> pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
> contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
> behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild wikipedia" to
> find more examples and stories.
>
> Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :
>
>> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
>> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
>> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
>> what we're actually talking about here?
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

[Lodewijk]

I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials in
good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted to
see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands).
Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill

of
hundreds of euros for a foundation that did not specify the author name or this
website that was asked  to
pay over a thousand euro. The discussion on the German WIkipedia may
contain more links, and the linked blogs are insightful on how this
behaviour is being perceived. Just google for "abmahnung bild wikipedia" to
find more examples and stories.

Hope that clarifies. German Wikipedians may have better examples.

Lodewijk

2017-03-04 12:47 GMT+01:00 David Gerard :

> This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions
> and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic
> uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of
> what we're actually talking about here?
>
>
> - d.
>
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>
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