Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Tanveer Hasan]

Hi Abhinav,

Thanks for the reminder, I have replied to the earlier email with inline
comments.

Regards,

ಮಂಗಳ, ಸೆಪ್ಟೆಂ 4, 2018 ರಂದು 09:27 ಪೂರ್ವಾಹ್ನ ಸಮಯಕ್ಕೆ ರಂದು Abhinav srivastava <
abhinav...@gmail.com> ಅವರು ಬರೆದಿದ್ದಾರೆ:

> Hello Tanveer
>
> This is just a friendly reminder that you are supposed to reply on this
> thread. It has been more than 1 month now since I floated my concerns.
> Although you are no longer a part of the Access to Knowledge Team and now a
> staff with Wikimedia Foundation, I understand you are still part of the
> movement and could answer for your previous office. I am copying this on
> your Wikimedia Foundation Mail Id as well.
>
> The silence has been a cause of personal trouble for me. I have been
> subject to personal humiliation such as, 'witch hunt' on this thread.
>
> As claimed by you that best efforts would be undertaken to provide reports
> by the end of August, hasn't happened. We are now in the 37th week of the
> year. The clarity on how the public money is being spent by CIS-A2K still
> remains unclear.
>
> Abhinav
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:15 PM Abhinav srivastava 
> wrote:
>
>> Those are two different issues of reporting, Satdeep. Anyways, I think
>> that matter has been sorted for now.
>>
>> Sure, that would be a good way. We can discuss about conflicts in private
>> mail.
>>
>> Abhinav
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:46 PM Satdeep Gill 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Documentation and Reporting has generally been an issue. As Subha
>>> mentioned about a lot of footage and no bandwidth to upload, it reminds me
>>> of WCI2018 where we had 500 GB data and could only work around about a 100
>>> GB of that.
>>>
>>> And yes some communities/volunteers have been doing a lot of great
>>> activities but don't publicize it much and nor do they write blogposts
>>> about the same. I believe this is something where we need some support from
>>> each other.
>>>
>>> @Abhinav srivastava  I believe everyone who was
>>> going to Berlin was invited to attend the event in Bangalore. I do know
>>> about one person not being available during those dates and another one was
>>> refused visa. I might be missing out on something here.
>>>
>>> Regarding disturbed neutrality at my end, I just wanted to say that I am
>>> first a volunteer and then a part-employee and in my view my volunteer
>>> activities (which includes my role in AffCom) are very much different from
>>> my role in the New Readers program. I am happy to discuss more about this
>>> in private email.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Satdeep Gill
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 18:38, Ashwin Baindur 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks. I was just expressing my concerns.

 On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM Abhinav srivastava 
 wrote:

> Hello Ashwin Sir,
>
>
>
> It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have
> shared the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing
> Bodisattwa’s talk about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on
> his personal email.  If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take
> his name. Yes, 2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated 
> so.
>
> Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say
> Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would
> be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good
> in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the
> mailing list. 
>
> Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else
> but Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself.
>
> Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions.
> As they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you
> practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how
> to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’.  Anyways, If I have 
> been
> rude, I would like to apologize straight away.
>
>
>
> @ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to
> learn about activities in your User Group.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <
> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from
>> any volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, 
>> please
>> don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
>> time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
>> being available for post-event documentation.
>>
>> Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to
>> document a lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event,
>> the 16th anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed
>> documentation in Odia 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Tanveer Hasan]

Hello Abhinav,

Please see replies inline

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 16:58, Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,

Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
importantly assuring on transparency.

I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate if
I can hear back.

1.) Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian Wikimedians.
While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian attending in this
category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru is one of the
highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of migrant
populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience Wikimedians
from other languages groups which still do not have a User Group and are
based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia Conference in
Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The idea is very
similar to the statement put forward by your organization and Wikimedia
India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities have
dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be said
for all communities.”

--

This event was organised within a short notice and we were unable to invite
all the stakeholders of Wikimedia movement in India. We have taken note of
your suggestion and assure that efforts will be made to invite Wikimedians
of all languages and projects. We'll inform and request suggestions about
the event on the mailing list before the next iteration.

2.) I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
invited? I wish to hear.

--

We have updated the participants list. We invited all the Wikimedians from
India who attended Wikimedian Conference India 2018. 2 editors, one from
Bengali community, and one from Hindi community informed us that they can
not attend the event. Only for one Wikimedian, the email was sent to a
wrong email address, and was discovered late. We apologise for this, and we
also apologised to the Wikimedian in person in Berlin.


3.) Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please share on
this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as much as you
can about your activities on Meta.

--

We are working on it and you may see some progress here on the event page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_(India)

Due to transition it is taking a little time. The feedback process is
starting. We do hope in next 1 week or so this will be done.

.

You may also see the last Progress report:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2016-2017_round_2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Progress_report_form
and Impact report:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2015-2016_round_2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Impact_report_form

4.) It is already to my understanding that the absence of your
communication manager has led to defaults in your newsletter. I would like
to re-iterate as documented on the other mail thread, Wikimedia Communities
are voluntary driven, some staff should devote time and keep sharing. This
is just a suggestion.

-- We will try to devote more time towards documentation and reporting of
the events. CIS-A2K team will also initiate the recruitment process for
Communications Officer in September, 2018.

ಶುಕ್ರ, ಆಗ 10, 2018 ರಂದು 04:58 ಅಪರಾಹ್ನ ಸಮಯಕ್ಕೆ ರಂದು Abhinav srivastava <
abhinav...@gmail.com> ಅವರು ಬರೆದಿದ್ದಾರೆ:

> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,
>
>
>
> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
> importantly assuring on transparency.
>
>
>
> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate
> if I can hear back.
>
>
>
> 1.)Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian
> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian
> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru
> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of
> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience
> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User
> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia
> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The
> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and
> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities
> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be
> said for all communities.”
>
>
> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
> invited? I wish to hear.
>
>
> 3.)Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please
> share on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as
> much as you can about your 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Hello Tanveer

This is just a friendly reminder that you are supposed to reply on this
thread. It has been more than 1 month now since I floated my concerns.
Although you are no longer a part of the Access to Knowledge Team and now a
staff with Wikimedia Foundation, I understand you are still part of the
movement and could answer for your previous office. I am copying this on
your Wikimedia Foundation Mail Id as well.

The silence has been a cause of personal trouble for me. I have been
subject to personal humiliation such as, 'witch hunt' on this thread.

As claimed by you that best efforts would be undertaken to provide reports
by the end of August, hasn't happened. We are now in the 37th week of the
year. The clarity on how the public money is being spent by CIS-A2K still
remains unclear.

Abhinav



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:15 PM Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

> Those are two different issues of reporting, Satdeep. Anyways, I think
> that matter has been sorted for now.
>
> Sure, that would be a good way. We can discuss about conflicts in private
> mail.
>
> Abhinav
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:46 PM Satdeep Gill 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Documentation and Reporting has generally been an issue. As Subha
>> mentioned about a lot of footage and no bandwidth to upload, it reminds me
>> of WCI2018 where we had 500 GB data and could only work around about a 100
>> GB of that.
>>
>> And yes some communities/volunteers have been doing a lot of great
>> activities but don't publicize it much and nor do they write blogposts
>> about the same. I believe this is something where we need some support from
>> each other.
>>
>> @Abhinav srivastava  I believe everyone who was
>> going to Berlin was invited to attend the event in Bangalore. I do know
>> about one person not being available during those dates and another one was
>> refused visa. I might be missing out on something here.
>>
>> Regarding disturbed neutrality at my end, I just wanted to say that I am
>> first a volunteer and then a part-employee and in my view my volunteer
>> activities (which includes my role in AffCom) are very much different from
>> my role in the New Readers program. I am happy to discuss more about this
>> in private email.
>>
>> Regards
>> Satdeep Gill
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 18:38, Ashwin Baindur 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks. I was just expressing my concerns.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM Abhinav srivastava 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Ashwin Sir,



 It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have
 shared the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing
 Bodisattwa’s talk about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on
 his personal email.  If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take
 his name. Yes, 2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated 
 so.

 Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say
 Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would
 be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good
 in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the
 mailing list. 

 Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else but
 Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself.

 Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions.
 As they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you
 practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how
 to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’.  Anyways, If I have been
 rude, I would like to apologize straight away.



 @ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to
 learn about activities in your User Group.

 On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <
 psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any
> volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please
> don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
> time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
> being available for post-event documentation.
>
> Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to
> document a lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event,
> the 16th anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed
> documentation in Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to
> contributors like Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others 
> who
> managed to document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We
> have recorded about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this 
> event
> that we now have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more
> months 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Those are two different issues of reporting, Satdeep. Anyways, I think that
matter has been sorted for now.

Sure, that would be a good way. We can discuss about conflicts in private
mail.

Abhinav



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:46 PM Satdeep Gill  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Documentation and Reporting has generally been an issue. As Subha
> mentioned about a lot of footage and no bandwidth to upload, it reminds me
> of WCI2018 where we had 500 GB data and could only work around about a 100
> GB of that.
>
> And yes some communities/volunteers have been doing a lot of great
> activities but don't publicize it much and nor do they write blogposts
> about the same. I believe this is something where we need some support from
> each other.
>
> @Abhinav srivastava  I believe everyone who was
> going to Berlin was invited to attend the event in Bangalore. I do know
> about one person not being available during those dates and another one was
> refused visa. I might be missing out on something here.
>
> Regarding disturbed neutrality at my end, I just wanted to say that I am
> first a volunteer and then a part-employee and in my view my volunteer
> activities (which includes my role in AffCom) are very much different from
> my role in the New Readers program. I am happy to discuss more about this
> in private email.
>
> Regards
> Satdeep Gill
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 18:38, Ashwin Baindur 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks. I was just expressing my concerns.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM Abhinav srivastava 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ashwin Sir,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have shared
>>> the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing Bodisattwa’s talk
>>> about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on his personal
>>> email.  If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take his name. Yes,
>>> 2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated so.
>>>
>>> Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say
>>> Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would
>>> be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good
>>> in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the
>>> mailing list. 
>>>
>>> Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else but
>>> Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself.
>>>
>>> Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions.
>>> As they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you
>>> practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how
>>> to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’.  Anyways, If I have been
>>> rude, I would like to apologize straight away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to
>>> learn about activities in your User Group.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <
>>> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any
 volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please
 don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
 time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
 being available for post-event documentation.

 Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to
 document a lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event,
 the 16th anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed
 documentation in Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to
 contributors like Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others who
 managed to document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We
 have recorded about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this event
 that we now have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more
 months for us to do that. :)

 As a new user group, we have also supported neighboring communities
 like Santali where we interviewed many of the active and new Wikimedians
 (almost 50 Gbs of media again) during a workshop that we helped organize
 with support from A2K.

 These are just a couple of examples of what we intend to do and how
 things turn up differently in reality. Trust me, we really want to document
 publicly as much as we can and there are genuine factors that slow many of
 us down. But point noted - there is always a room for improvement. I
 personally assumed that as there is a Etherpad note that Tito and others at
 A2K had created during the two-day meeting, sharing that with the community
 was enough. We indeed had a discussion and Sailesh who works at A2K and
 other colleagues at our user group can share more about the same.

 Subhashish


 On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM Abhinav srivastava <

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Satdeep Gill]

Hi all,

Documentation and Reporting has generally been an issue. As Subha mentioned
about a lot of footage and no bandwidth to upload, it reminds me of WCI2018
where we had 500 GB data and could only work around about a 100 GB of that.

And yes some communities/volunteers have been doing a lot of great
activities but don't publicize it much and nor do they write blogposts
about the same. I believe this is something where we need some support from
each other.

@Abhinav srivastava  I believe everyone who was going
to Berlin was invited to attend the event in Bangalore. I do know about one
person not being available during those dates and another one was refused
visa. I might be missing out on something here.

Regarding disturbed neutrality at my end, I just wanted to say that I am
first a volunteer and then a part-employee and in my view my volunteer
activities (which includes my role in AffCom) are very much different from
my role in the New Readers program. I am happy to discuss more about this
in private email.

Regards
Satdeep Gill


On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 18:38, Ashwin Baindur 
wrote:

> Thanks. I was just expressing my concerns.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM Abhinav srivastava 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Ashwin Sir,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have shared
>> the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing Bodisattwa’s talk
>> about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on his personal
>> email.  If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take his name. Yes,
>> 2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated so.
>>
>> Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say
>> Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would
>> be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good
>> in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the
>> mailing list. 
>>
>> Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else but
>> Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself.
>>
>> Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions. As
>> they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you
>> practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how
>> to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’.  Anyways, If I have been
>> rude, I would like to apologize straight away.
>>
>>
>>
>> @ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to
>> learn about activities in your User Group.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <
>> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any
>>> volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please
>>> don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
>>> time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
>>> being available for post-event documentation.
>>>
>>> Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to document
>>> a lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event, the 16th
>>> anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed documentation in
>>> Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to contributors like
>>> Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others who managed to
>>> document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We have recorded
>>> about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this event that we now
>>> have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more months for us
>>> to do that. :)
>>>
>>> As a new user group, we have also supported neighboring communities like
>>> Santali where we interviewed many of the active and new Wikimedians (almost
>>> 50 Gbs of media again) during a workshop that we helped organize with
>>> support from A2K.
>>>
>>> These are just a couple of examples of what we intend to do and how
>>> things turn up differently in reality. Trust me, we really want to document
>>> publicly as much as we can and there are genuine factors that slow many of
>>> us down. But point noted - there is always a room for improvement. I
>>> personally assumed that as there is a Etherpad note that Tito and others at
>>> A2K had created during the two-day meeting, sharing that with the community
>>> was enough. We indeed had a discussion and Sailesh who works at A2K and
>>> other colleagues at our user group can share more about the same.
>>>
>>> Subhashish
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM Abhinav srivastava 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Netha,

 I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for
 other Wikimedias residing in India.

 Sorry for the inconveniences.

 Abhinav

 On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, 
 wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Ashwin Baindur]

Thanks. I was just expressing my concerns.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

> Hello Ashwin Sir,
>
>
>
> It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have shared
> the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing Bodisattwa’s talk
> about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on his personal
> email.  If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take his name. Yes,
> 2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated so.
>
> Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say
> Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would
> be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good
> in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the
> mailing list. 
>
> Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else but
> Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself.
>
> Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions. As
> they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you
> practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how
> to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’.  Anyways, If I have been
> rude, I would like to apologize straight away.
>
>
>
> @ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to learn
> about activities in your User Group.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <
> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any
>> volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please
>> don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
>> time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
>> being available for post-event documentation.
>>
>> Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to document
>> a lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event, the 16th
>> anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed documentation in
>> Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to contributors like
>> Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others who managed to
>> document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We have recorded
>> about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this event that we now
>> have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more months for us
>> to do that. :)
>>
>> As a new user group, we have also supported neighboring communities like
>> Santali where we interviewed many of the active and new Wikimedians (almost
>> 50 Gbs of media again) during a workshop that we helped organize with
>> support from A2K.
>>
>> These are just a couple of examples of what we intend to do and how
>> things turn up differently in reality. Trust me, we really want to document
>> publicly as much as we can and there are genuine factors that slow many of
>> us down. But point noted - there is always a room for improvement. I
>> personally assumed that as there is a Etherpad note that Tito and others at
>> A2K had created during the two-day meeting, sharing that with the community
>> was enough. We indeed had a discussion and Sailesh who works at A2K and
>> other colleagues at our user group can share more about the same.
>>
>> Subhashish
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM Abhinav srivastava 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Netha,
>>>
>>> I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other
>>> Wikimedias residing in India.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the inconveniences.
>>>
>>> Abhinav
>>>
>>> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Dear all,

 My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance
 at WMCON 18 :

 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in
 the Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them
 was invited? I wish to hear.

  I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate
 in Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and
 delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion
 
 there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the
 CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different
 country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive.
 Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about
 Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not
 represent any affiliate from India, either.

 The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found
 here
 
 .

 Regards
 Netha


 On 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Hello Ashwin Sir,



It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have shared
the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing Bodisattwa’s talk
about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on his personal
email.  If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take his name. Yes,
2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated so.

Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say
Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would
be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good
in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the
mailing list. 

Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else but
Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself.

Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions. As
they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you
practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how
to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’.  Anyways, If I have been
rude, I would like to apologize straight away.



@ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to learn
about activities in your User Group.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi 
wrote:

> Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any
> volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please
> don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
> time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
> being available for post-event documentation.
>
> Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to document a
> lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event, the 16th
> anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed documentation in
> Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to contributors like
> Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others who managed to
> document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We have recorded
> about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this event that we now
> have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more months for us
> to do that. :)
>
> As a new user group, we have also supported neighboring communities like
> Santali where we interviewed many of the active and new Wikimedians (almost
> 50 Gbs of media again) during a workshop that we helped organize with
> support from A2K.
>
> These are just a couple of examples of what we intend to do and how things
> turn up differently in reality. Trust me, we really want to document
> publicly as much as we can and there are genuine factors that slow many of
> us down. But point noted - there is always a room for improvement. I
> personally assumed that as there is a Etherpad note that Tito and others at
> A2K had created during the two-day meeting, sharing that with the community
> was enough. We indeed had a discussion and Sailesh who works at A2K and
> other colleagues at our user group can share more about the same.
>
> Subhashish
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM Abhinav srivastava 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Netha,
>>
>> I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other
>> Wikimedias residing in India.
>>
>> Sorry for the inconveniences.
>>
>> Abhinav
>>
>> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance
>>> at WMCON 18 :
>>>
>>> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
>>> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
>>> invited? I wish to hear.
>>>
>>>  I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate
>>> in Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and
>>> delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion
>>> 
>>> there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the
>>> CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different
>>> country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive.
>>> Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about
>>> Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not
>>> represent any affiliate from India, either.
>>>
>>> The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found
>>> here
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Netha
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,



 Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
 importantly assuring on transparency.



 I still 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Subhashish Panigrahi]

Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any
volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please
don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life,
time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from
being available for post-event documentation.

Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to document a
lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event, the 16th
anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed documentation in
Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to contributors like
Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others who managed to
document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We have recorded
about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this event that we now
have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more months for us
to do that. :)

As a new user group, we have also supported neighboring communities like
Santali where we interviewed many of the active and new Wikimedians (almost
50 Gbs of media again) during a workshop that we helped organize with
support from A2K.

These are just a couple of examples of what we intend to do and how things
turn up differently in reality. Trust me, we really want to document
publicly as much as we can and there are genuine factors that slow many of
us down. But point noted - there is always a room for improvement. I
personally assumed that as there is a Etherpad note that Tito and others at
A2K had created during the two-day meeting, sharing that with the community
was enough. We indeed had a discussion and Sailesh who works at A2K and
other colleagues at our user group can share more about the same.

Subhashish


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

> Hello Netha,
>
> I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other
> Wikimedias residing in India.
>
> Sorry for the inconveniences.
>
> Abhinav
>
> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance at
>> WMCON 18 :
>>
>> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
>> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
>> invited? I wish to hear.
>>
>>  I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate
>> in Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and
>> delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion
>> 
>> there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the
>> CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different
>> country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive.
>> Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about
>> Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not
>> represent any affiliate from India, either.
>>
>> The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found here
>> 
>> .
>>
>> Regards
>> Netha
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
>>> importantly assuring on transparency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate
>>> if I can hear back.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.)Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian
>>> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian
>>> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru
>>> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of
>>> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience
>>> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User
>>> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia
>>> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The
>>> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and
>>> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities
>>> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be
>>> said for all communities.”
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
>>> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
>>> invited? I wish to hear.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3.)Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please
>>> share on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as
>>> much as you can about your activities on Meta.
>>>
>>>
>>> 4.)It is already to my understanding that the absence of your
>>> 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Ashwin Baindur]

My two bits. Transparency is one issue and its good that some one asked
about it and very good that the CIS is answering the concerns. However, the
tone here appears to be that for every decision about the organisation of a
CIS event, consensus is a must with the community. That is not so. The CIS
A2K project can take decisions about whom to invite as per their decided
line of reasoning.

The line of questioning here seems to be like that of a witch hunt. As one
who has organised many events in a lifetime, let me tell you, organisers
are expected to do their best in all aspects, and be open about it. But it
does not mean that they do things YOUR way or that you get to decide what
is right or wrong.

If some one got left out and you know whom it is say so outright and ask
why that person didn't figure. Don't make insinuations.

Transparency is there. You asked, they answered. Reports are often delayed,
though they shouldn't be as far as possible. I could point out a number of
grants taken by Wikimedians where the reports have not been generated or
they are a slipshod placeholder, where accounts are not submitted for
months or are absolutely unsatisfactory. Where the outcomes promised in
grant proposal are inadequately met or conveniently avoided mention of.

A conference expenditure of Rs 2 Lakhs is not exorbitant and you know that.
Your statement declaiming it so doesn't make it.

I request that such questions and accountability definitely be carried out
but not in the way that is being done here. It reeks of bad faith.

And for sake of Conflict of Interest disclosure let me say that I have been
called twice to CIS as resource person for a staff selection meet some
years ago and for TTT last year. My  transportation expenses, food and
hotel stay for TTT was borne by CIS. In the staff selection meet, I stayed
with my brother and ate at his place, CIS only paid from transportation. I
received no remuneration for these two events. I have NOT received any
grant from CIS or WMF in my name ever. Though Sunil did present me a set of
CIS pamphlets the first time I met him.

Those who don't know me, I am a retired army officer, editing since 2006 on
en:WP and my name is User:AshLin.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

> Hello Netha,
>
> I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other
> Wikimedias residing in India.
>
> Sorry for the inconveniences.
>
> Abhinav
>
> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance at
>> WMCON 18 :
>>
>> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
>> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
>> invited? I wish to hear.
>>
>>  I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate
>> in Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and
>> delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion
>> 
>> there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the
>> CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different
>> country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive.
>> Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about
>> Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not
>> represent any affiliate from India, either.
>>
>> The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found here
>> 
>> .
>>
>> Regards
>> Netha
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
>>> importantly assuring on transparency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate
>>> if I can hear back.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.)Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian
>>> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian
>>> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru
>>> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of
>>> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience
>>> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User
>>> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia
>>> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The
>>> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and
>>> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities
>>> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be
>>> said for all communities.”
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.)I am not sure 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Hello Netha,

I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other
Wikimedias residing in India.

Sorry for the inconveniences.

Abhinav

On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain,  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance at
> WMCON 18 :
>
> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
> invited? I wish to hear.
>
>  I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate in
> Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and
> delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion
> 
> there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the
> CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different
> country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive.
> Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about
> Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not
> represent any affiliate from India, either.
>
> The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found here
> 
> .
>
> Regards
> Netha
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
>> importantly assuring on transparency.
>>
>>
>>
>> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate
>> if I can hear back.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.)Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian
>> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian
>> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru
>> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of
>> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience
>> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User
>> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia
>> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The
>> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and
>> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities
>> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be
>> said for all communities.”
>>
>>
>> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
>> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
>> invited? I wish to hear.
>>
>>
>> 3.)Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please
>> share on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as
>> much as you can about your activities on Meta.
>>
>>
>> 4.)It is already to my understanding that the absence of your
>> communication manager has led to defaults in your newsletter. I would like
>> to re-iterate as documented on the other mail thread, Wikimedia Communities
>> are voluntary driven, some staff should devote time and keep sharing. This
>> is just a suggestion.
>>
>>
>>
>> @ Subhashish: Sorry to cross-post a bit from the other thread, I happened
>> to miss your last message since another message popped in within 10 minutes
>> and I couldn’t distinguish. I believe putting comments about your personal
>> experiences at Wikimedia Movements wasn’t the best sportive thing one could
>> do. Since those were put on a public thread, so, on a public thread, I
>> would like to *apologize*. I still may remain unconvinced on not having
>> bandwidth, reports and other issues, but, Yes, I shouldn’t have brought
>> your personal story.
>>
>> Also, I advise Odia User Group to be more active in documenting about
>> such works on their Meta page and Village Pump. Our communities are too big
>> in nature, they often get sorted into two haves – one who dedicate more
>> time to the movement and remain known faces amongst each other, two- who
>> edit but devote less time to activities but they also put their
>> contributions. There are numerous such silent editors in every community.
>> Please take this only to be a suggestion, no negative remarks here.
>>
>>
>>
>> @Satdeep : I was expecting to hear from you. As Tanveer, points out on
>> having spent roughly Rs 2 lakhs, this is amount is much more than that
>> spent on to endorse a scholarship to Wikimania.  But that’s not my
>> question, I think we should refrain from that on this thread. You were a
>> part of the conference were no heeds to transparency and reporting was made
>> (even the CIS-A2K staff accepts this). Secondly, you hold a chair in AffCom
>> and also a WMF staff (yes part-time). I am of the opinion that neutrality
>> has somewhere been 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Netha Hussain]

Dear all,

My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance at
WMCON 18 :

2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
invited? I wish to hear.

 I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate in
Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and
delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion

there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the
CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different
country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive.
Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about
Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not
represent any affiliate from India, either.

The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found here

.

Regards
Netha


On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,
>
>
>
> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
> importantly assuring on transparency.
>
>
>
> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate
> if I can hear back.
>
>
>
> 1.)Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian
> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian
> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru
> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of
> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience
> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User
> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia
> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The
> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and
> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities
> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be
> said for all communities.”
>
>
> 2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
> invited? I wish to hear.
>
>
> 3.)Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please
> share on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as
> much as you can about your activities on Meta.
>
>
> 4.)It is already to my understanding that the absence of your
> communication manager has led to defaults in your newsletter. I would like
> to re-iterate as documented on the other mail thread, Wikimedia Communities
> are voluntary driven, some staff should devote time and keep sharing. This
> is just a suggestion.
>
>
>
> @ Subhashish: Sorry to cross-post a bit from the other thread, I happened
> to miss your last message since another message popped in within 10 minutes
> and I couldn’t distinguish. I believe putting comments about your personal
> experiences at Wikimedia Movements wasn’t the best sportive thing one could
> do. Since those were put on a public thread, so, on a public thread, I
> would like to *apologize*. I still may remain unconvinced on not having
> bandwidth, reports and other issues, but, Yes, I shouldn’t have brought
> your personal story.
>
> Also, I advise Odia User Group to be more active in documenting about such
> works on their Meta page and Village Pump. Our communities are too big in
> nature, they often get sorted into two haves – one who dedicate more time
> to the movement and remain known faces amongst each other, two- who edit
> but devote less time to activities but they also put their contributions.
> There are numerous such silent editors in every community. Please take this
> only to be a suggestion, no negative remarks here.
>
>
>
> @Satdeep : I was expecting to hear from you. As Tanveer, points out on
> having spent roughly Rs 2 lakhs, this is amount is much more than that
> spent on to endorse a scholarship to Wikimania.  But that’s not my
> question, I think we should refrain from that on this thread. You were a
> part of the conference were no heeds to transparency and reporting was made
> (even the CIS-A2K staff accepts this). Secondly, you hold a chair in AffCom
> and also a WMF staff (yes part-time). I am of the opinion that neutrality
> has somewhere been disturbed at your end. A personal freindly suggestion.
>
>
>
> Abhinav
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:11 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <
> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Tanveer for this frank clarification.
>>
>> @Abhinav srivastava , I didn't check earlier that
>> there is a point concerning me. So just a small clarification - my point

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Hello Tanveer and Subhashish,



Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most
importantly assuring on transparency.



I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate if
I can hear back.



1.)Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian
Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian
attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru
is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of
migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience
Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User
Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia
Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The
idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and
Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities
have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be
said for all communities.”


2.)I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the
Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was
invited? I wish to hear.


3.)Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please share
on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as much as
you can about your activities on Meta.


4.)It is already to my understanding that the absence of your
communication manager has led to defaults in your newsletter. I would like
to re-iterate as documented on the other mail thread, Wikimedia Communities
are voluntary driven, some staff should devote time and keep sharing. This
is just a suggestion.



@ Subhashish: Sorry to cross-post a bit from the other thread, I happened
to miss your last message since another message popped in within 10 minutes
and I couldn’t distinguish. I believe putting comments about your personal
experiences at Wikimedia Movements wasn’t the best sportive thing one could
do. Since those were put on a public thread, so, on a public thread, I
would like to *apologize*. I still may remain unconvinced on not having
bandwidth, reports and other issues, but, Yes, I shouldn’t have brought
your personal story.

Also, I advise Odia User Group to be more active in documenting about such
works on their Meta page and Village Pump. Our communities are too big in
nature, they often get sorted into two haves – one who dedicate more time
to the movement and remain known faces amongst each other, two- who edit
but devote less time to activities but they also put their contributions.
There are numerous such silent editors in every community. Please take this
only to be a suggestion, no negative remarks here.



@Satdeep : I was expecting to hear from you. As Tanveer, points out on
having spent roughly Rs 2 lakhs, this is amount is much more than that
spent on to endorse a scholarship to Wikimania.  But that’s not my
question, I think we should refrain from that on this thread. You were a
part of the conference were no heeds to transparency and reporting was made
(even the CIS-A2K staff accepts this). Secondly, you hold a chair in AffCom
and also a WMF staff (yes part-time). I am of the opinion that neutrality
has somewhere been disturbed at your end. A personal freindly suggestion.



Abhinav

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:11 PM Subhashish Panigrahi 
wrote:

> Thanks Tanveer for this frank clarification.
>
> @Abhinav srivastava , I didn't check earlier that
> there is a point concerning me. So just a small clarification - my point
> was not to show how A2K organized the event in a non-transparent way but to
> share the fact that I was a participant and did not know very well what
> went behind organizing the event. Also, I participated in my capacity of a
> rep of Odia Wikimedians User Group who happened to live in Bangalore (so it
> was logistically cheaper even though we didn't go to WMCON this year). For
> the record, Tanveer did share with me about this factor and the second
> factor — that our UG will be eligible next year to send a rep — for
> inviting me. My participation was not in the capacity of a former employee
> of CIS. :)
>
> Subhashish
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:59 PM Tanveer Hasan 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Abhinav,
>>
>> Please find our responses below:
>>
>> ==Conference==
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> (a)Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this
>> summer?:
>>
>> Yes, we organised a WMCON India 2018 as per our proposal [1] that was
>> submitted to the FDC in March 2017.
>>
>>
>>
>> (b)   How were the delegates selected and which communities were invited?
>>
>> The delegates were not selected by CIS. Participants invited/selected by
>> WMF to participate in WMCON 2018 [2] in Berlin were invited to this
>> meeting. User Group representatives who will be participating in WMCON 2019
>> (residing in Bangalore) were invited to participate as well.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Subhashish Panigrahi]

Thanks Tanveer for this frank clarification.

@Abhinav srivastava , I didn't check earlier that
there is a point concerning me. So just a small clarification - my point
was not to show how A2K organized the event in a non-transparent way but to
share the fact that I was a participant and did not know very well what
went behind organizing the event. Also, I participated in my capacity of a
rep of Odia Wikimedians User Group who happened to live in Bangalore (so it
was logistically cheaper even though we didn't go to WMCON this year). For
the record, Tanveer did share with me about this factor and the second
factor — that our UG will be eligible next year to send a rep — for
inviting me. My participation was not in the capacity of a former employee
of CIS. :)

Subhashish


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:59 PM Tanveer Hasan 
wrote:

> Dear Abhinav,
>
> Please find our responses below:
>
> ==Conference==
>
> Hello,
>
> (a)Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this
> summer?:
>
> Yes, we organised a WMCON India 2018 as per our proposal [1] that was
> submitted to the FDC in March 2017.
>
>
>
> (b)   How were the delegates selected and which communities were invited?
>
> The delegates were not selected by CIS. Participants invited/selected by
> WMF to participate in WMCON 2018 [2] in Berlin were invited to this
> meeting. User Group representatives who will be participating in WMCON 2019
> (residing in Bangalore) were invited to participate as well.
>
>
>
> (c)For all those communities who were invited (based on your response
> to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, mailing
> list, reaching out to User Group representatives?
>
> As the participants were already selected by another affiliate of WMF, we
> did not want to reinvent the process and hence sent them personal emails as
> invite to this conference. We apologise for not sending out the event
> agenda and details about the event on mailing list and village pump of all
> the Indic communities.
>
>
>
> (d)   Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the process?
>
>
>
> Our intention was not to be ‘non transparent’, the participant list was
> put up by WMDE Conference organising team  and we invited only those people
> whose name featured in the official participant list. Sunil Abraham,
> Executive Director, CIS and Ananth Subray, Program Associate, A2K,
> Subhashish Panigrahi, representing Odia User group and Dr. U.B. Pavanaja,
> representing Karavali Wikimedians User Group were the only participants who
> were present whose name was not on the Participants list.
>
>
>
> (e)When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not maintaining
> transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of the question is
> NO)?
>
> I would like to reiterate that our intention was not to be
> ‘non-transparent’. A2K team apologises for not sending out adequate
> information to communities and requisite channels of communication. We will
> strive to improve our communication with the community for all of our
> events.
>
>
>
> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the community?
>
> There is a meta page that had been created but has not been completed. We
> will priorotise the reporting of this event and revert with relevant
> updates.
>
>
>
> (g)How much funds were involved?
>
> We used an approximate amount of INR.2 lakh for this event. Major expenses
> were incurred in arranging transport and hospitality.
>
>
>
> (h)   What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff during
> the workshop?
>
> Four members of the CIS-A2K team participated in the meeting.
>
> Mr. Sunil Abraham, Executive Director was the chief facilitator on Day 1.
>
> Tanveer Hasan and Tito Dutta were organisers and co-facilitators for the
> conversations for both days.
>
> Ananth Subray attended the event to coordinate logistics and
> reimbursements.
>
> ==Reports==
>
> (a)What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly reports on
> the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta?
>
> We have defaulted on our newsletter because of the exit of our
> communications officer.  All the reports are updated here [3]. We will also
> update reports here [4] at the earliest.
>
>
>
> (b)   Can we hear about the reports, shortly?
>
> We will do our best to update reports by the end of this month.
>
> [1].
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Work_plan_July_2017_-_June_2018/Skill_Building_Initiatives#Wikimedia_India_conference_2018
>
> [2].
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Participants%27_List
>
> [3]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reports
>
> [4]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Reports
>
>
> Regards,
>
> ಭಾನು, ಆಗ 5, 2018 ರಂದು 07:22 ಪೂರ್ವಾಹ್ನ ಸಮಯಕ್ಕೆ ರಂದು Abhinav srivastava <
> abhinav...@gmail.com> ಅವರು ಬರೆದಿದ್ದಾರೆ:
>
>> Thank You Tito for your mail.
>>
>> I would request you to address the issues within 10 days from now. This
>> is just a request.
>>
>> 

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Thank You Tito for your mail.

I would request you to address the issues within 10 days from now. This is
just a request.

Also, one of your colleagues and also my friend informed me that he wanted
to reply but his e-mail is being moderated or blacklisted. I have taken
this issue with the mailing list admins and the admins have looked into the
issue clarifying the said collegeue wasn’t moderated or blacklisted. In
case, any issue still arises, please ping me and I will do my best to
settle this.

Thank You for writing back.

Abhinav

On Sunday, August 5, 2018, Tito Dutta  wrote:

> Hello Abhinav,
> On behalf of the team, I confirm that we have received your questions.
> Thanks for these questions.
> We have a hectic schedule right now because of few things such as CIS (the
> main institution's) strategy meet, staff transition, grant report, and some
> other works.
>
> Transparency and accountability  are very important topics. If things are
> not clear for a couple of events, we must work on it.
>
> Some other member or I'll get back with answers in a few days.
>
> (I am cc-ing Sunil Abraham, ED, of the institution, in this email)
>
> Thanks
> Tito Dutta
> Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
> me over email or phone call.
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 13:47, Abhinav srivastava 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends From CIS-A2K,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am bringing up a discussion based on few of the concerns expressed on
>> the other mail thread. I would like to acknowledge on record, the past few
>> years CIS-A2K has reached out to communities (besides Focussed Language
>> Area) much more effectively. I may be the first person to say this publicly
>> but I am sure many more would echo my views here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now what concerns me and something CIS-A2K already knows, when the
>> community has started acknowledging your work much more, CIS-A2K has been
>> acting as the necessary intervention in times of crisis why transparency is
>> being not paid its due.
>>
>>
>>
>> I list some of my questions which everyone is already aware of and would
>> request a reply. I would request you to not break the bullet and reply each
>> of them separately. Of course! If you are comfortable.
>>
>>
>>
>> ==Conference==
>>
>>
>>
>> (a)Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this summer?
>>
>> (b)   How were the delegates selected and which communities were invited?
>>
>> (c)For all those communities who were invited (based on your
>> response to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump,
>> mailing list, reaching out to User Group representatives?
>>
>> (d)   Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the process?
>>
>> (e)When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not maintaining
>> transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of the question is
>> NO)?
>>
>> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the community?
>>
>> (g)How much funds were involved?
>>
>> (h)   What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff during
>> the workshop?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==Reports==
>>
>> (a)What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly reports on
>> the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta?
>>
>> (b)   Can we hear about the reports, shortly?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> @Satdeep: I could not find any Meta page but I do find a page which is
>> put under-construction and this mentions you. Were you a part of this? If
>> Yes, I am not able to understand, the entire argument you had posted
>> yesterday about reporting guidelines and transparency.
>>
>> Only If, You Were A Party to This.
>>
>> To Everyone, I understand I may be playing the devil’s role here. Some of
>> my close aides have already advised me to stay back since I am damaging my
>> personal reputation.
>>
>> My argument is simple if my personal image promotes inclusiveness and
>> transparency. I will be happy to remain a soldier fighting.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Abhinav
>> ___
>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Tito Dutta]

Hello Abhinav,
On behalf of the team, I confirm that we have received your questions.
Thanks for these questions.
We have a hectic schedule right now because of few things such as CIS (the
main institution's) strategy meet, staff transition, grant report, and some
other works.

Transparency and accountability  are very important topics. If things are
not clear for a couple of events, we must work on it.

Some other member or I'll get back with answers in a few days.

(I am cc-ing Sunil Abraham, ED, of the institution, in this email)

Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.


On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 13:47, Abhinav srivastava 
wrote:

> Dear Friends From CIS-A2K,
>
>
>
> I am bringing up a discussion based on few of the concerns expressed on
> the other mail thread. I would like to acknowledge on record, the past few
> years CIS-A2K has reached out to communities (besides Focussed Language
> Area) much more effectively. I may be the first person to say this publicly
> but I am sure many more would echo my views here.
>
>
>
> Now what concerns me and something CIS-A2K already knows, when the
> community has started acknowledging your work much more, CIS-A2K has been
> acting as the necessary intervention in times of crisis why transparency is
> being not paid its due.
>
>
>
> I list some of my questions which everyone is already aware of and would
> request a reply. I would request you to not break the bullet and reply each
> of them separately. Of course! If you are comfortable.
>
>
>
> ==Conference==
>
>
>
> (a)Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this summer?
>
> (b)   How were the delegates selected and which communities were invited?
>
> (c)For all those communities who were invited (based on your response
> to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, mailing
> list, reaching out to User Group representatives?
>
> (d)   Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the process?
>
> (e)When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not maintaining
> transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of the question is
> NO)?
>
> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the community?
>
> (g)How much funds were involved?
>
> (h)   What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff during
> the workshop?
>
>
>
>
>
> ==Reports==
>
> (a)What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly reports on
> the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta?
>
> (b)   Can we hear about the reports, shortly?
>
>
>
>
>
> @Satdeep: I could not find any Meta page but I do find a page which is put
> under-construction and this mentions you. Were you a part of this? If Yes,
> I am not able to understand, the entire argument you had posted yesterday
> about reporting guidelines and transparency.
>
> Only If, You Were A Party to This.
>
> To Everyone, I understand I may be playing the devil’s role here. Some of
> my close aides have already advised me to stay back since I am damaging my
> personal reputation.
>
> My argument is simple if my personal image promotes inclusiveness and
> transparency. I will be happy to remain a soldier fighting.
>
>
>
>  Abhinav
> ___
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
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[Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues

[Abhinav srivastava]

Dear Friends From CIS-A2K,



I am bringing up a discussion based on few of the concerns expressed on the
other mail thread. I would like to acknowledge on record, the past few
years CIS-A2K has reached out to communities (besides Focussed Language
Area) much more effectively. I may be the first person to say this publicly
but I am sure many more would echo my views here.



Now what concerns me and something CIS-A2K already knows, when the
community has started acknowledging your work much more, CIS-A2K has been
acting as the necessary intervention in times of crisis why transparency is
being not paid its due.



I list some of my questions which everyone is already aware of and would
request a reply. I would request you to not break the bullet and reply each
of them separately. Of course! If you are comfortable.



==Conference==



(a)Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this summer?

(b)   How were the delegates selected and which communities were invited?

(c)For all those communities who were invited (based on your response
to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, mailing
list, reaching out to User Group representatives?

(d)   Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the process?

(e)When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not maintaining
transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of the question is
NO)?

(f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the community?

(g)How much funds were involved?

(h)   What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff during the
workshop?





==Reports==

(a)What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly reports on the
mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta?

(b)   Can we hear about the reports, shortly?





@Satdeep: I could not find any Meta page but I do find a page which is put
under-construction and this mentions you. Were you a part of this? If Yes,
I am not able to understand, the entire argument you had posted yesterday
about reporting guidelines and transparency.

Only If, You Were A Party to This.

To Everyone, I understand I may be playing the devil’s role here. Some of
my close aides have already advised me to stay back since I am damaging my
personal reputation.

My argument is simple if my personal image promotes inclusiveness and
transparency. I will be happy to remain a soldier fighting.



 Abhinav
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